0:09

Hi Robbie! I'm a pager. How

0:11

are. You on this beautiful Monday morning

0:13

is a pretty okay. I don't. I don't

0:16

pay attention. I just wanted to make people

0:18

feel good. Go with me. Okay, I feel

0:20

great. I gotta work out and so I

0:22

feel good. You all Robbie at Chaudhry works

0:25

out. Welcome to Rob Ya and L and

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solve the case. I am Ellen Martian Across

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from me. You would think is a cross

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fit queen but no. Or she is a

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lawyer. She is a writer. She is an

0:36

advocate. She is trolling me every day with

0:38

her luscious lips and her cheeks. That is

0:41

Robbie A Chaudhry. And welcome it's

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our show. About. Diem crime

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0:56

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0:58

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1:01

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1:03

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just go to pageround.com/rob Yet and Allen solved

1:10

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1:14

actually. Have a list of watch parties I need

1:16

to tax Josh and we have a bunch of

1:18

stuff we need to get on. I haven't been

1:20

part of a watch party in a while those

1:22

traveling so yeah let's watch some The and I

1:24

keep hearing about this new documentary. Something about people

1:27

on our Facebook page also are talking about has

1:29

anybody seen this? Has anybody seen this? It's so

1:31

yeah. we have a lot to catch up on

1:33

so we're going to go back on. With.

1:35

That we sit, we watch, we chat,

1:37

we talk about things. It's actually such

1:39

a great community, so go ahead and

1:41

check us out there. But we're gonna

1:43

jump right into true crime that is

1:45

happening in the world because there's a

1:48

lot of it. Robbie, our What's Happening.

1:50

Is there any true crime in your

1:52

life Today Right now? in my actual

1:54

personal life, Louis think there is, but

1:56

I actually can't talk about it. I

1:58

think we're both struggling with. the same

2:00

thing and it starts with the letter X

2:02

and ends with the letter husbands. But

2:05

it's fine. We're great. We're here.

2:07

We're on our general feed. Our

2:09

Star Witnesses are here watching us

2:11

as we record. Yep. They

2:13

are on our, there is a level of our

2:15

Patreon Star Witnesses. They get to join us not

2:17

just for our live recordings for ADC about Jam

2:20

Cry but also when we have guests which is

2:22

really fun. It is really fun and this Friday

2:24

we are going to be chatting with Margaret Cho.

2:27

I mean she is an icon legend hero.

2:29

I'm so excited. And we're talking about a case I

2:31

don't know anything about so I'm even more excited.

2:33

Yes, I know. She said the name

2:36

and I was like what? I Googled it? Who even

2:38

knows? I love that because I get to learn new

2:40

stuff. I also love it when we get to dive

2:42

into things we already knew. I didn't think the Menendez

2:44

brothers was going to be as riveting as it was

2:47

or we always go back to the Malcolm X case.

2:49

I think we should go back to Malcolm X and

2:51

talk about it again. I just want to make sure

2:53

everybody heard that one. We should. Maybe

2:55

next week's ADC we should like revisit it and just

2:57

be like, in case you didn't know, so

3:01

do you have some good stories for me

3:03

this week? Oh, well this isn't

3:05

my official case but I feel like

3:07

everyone in the True Crime community is

3:09

talking about it specifically on our Facebook

3:11

group. Have you been keeping up with

3:13

the Jennifer Crumbly case? Oh, that's one

3:16

of my cases today. Oh, let's talk

3:18

about it. I just wanted to jump

3:20

in and talk. I have been following

3:22

it slowly. I was slow to catch

3:24

up to it but now I am

3:26

fascinated. Yeah, so let's give a

3:28

little background here. Jennifer Crumbly was charged

3:31

with four counts of involuntary manslaughter

3:33

in connection with the school shooting that

3:35

her son, 15-year-old son Ethan Crumbly, had

3:37

done back in November of 2021 at

3:39

Oxford High School. This is a school

3:42

in the burbs of Detroit, Michigan. And

3:46

her and her husband were both charged with

3:48

involuntary manslaughter. She was just found guilty, I

3:50

think last week, of all four counts of

3:52

involuntary manslaughter. Her husband stands trial in a

3:54

couple of months or something. He hasn't stood

3:56

trial for it. The fact that she was

3:58

number one, they were charged... with this

4:00

is kind of unprecedented because they were

4:02

not there during the shooting and the

4:04

fact that she would sound guilty, it

4:06

was actually surprising to a lot of

4:08

legal experts. A lot of legal experts

4:10

on TikTok were actually saying even right

4:13

before the verdict, like I just

4:15

don't think this is going to go down

4:17

the way people think it is and they were

4:19

all shocked. I was following a bunch of

4:21

them online. So I mean, just to talk a

4:23

little bit about the facts of the day

4:25

of the shooting and Ethan Crumbly himself, he was

4:27

clearly a young man. I mean, his cries

4:30

for help were so obvious. He had asked

4:32

his parents for therapy. On the day of

4:34

the shooting, the parents were actually called into

4:36

the school because he had made this really

4:38

like violent illustration in which there's like blood

4:40

and guns and victims and he really writes

4:43

on it, so much blood, I can't stop

4:45

myself. The school at that point had no

4:47

idea the parents had recently bought and gifted

4:49

their son a gun. Okay. Previously, they had

4:51

been notified that he had been at school

4:53

like looking up how to buy bullets. So

4:56

the parents come in that morning and they're

4:58

like, well, we can't take him home. We

5:00

got to get back to work and fine. We will find him

5:02

a mental health professional within 48 hours, but

5:04

for now he's going to stay here. And

5:07

like within the next hour or two, he

5:09

and the thing is the parents knowing he

5:11

has a gun, the school not knowing the

5:13

parents did not even bother to be like,

5:16

where's that gun, by the way? Do you

5:18

have that gun with you? It was actually

5:20

so serious that one of the counselors actually

5:23

said that if the family did not get

5:25

him mental health treatment within 48 hours, they

5:27

were going to call Child Protective Services. They

5:29

gave the family an ultimatum and they still

5:32

were like, cool, cool, cool, we'll do that,

5:34

but like I have some shit I need to

5:36

get back to at work. The parents also did

5:38

not tell the school that their son was having

5:41

hallucinations recently. And when that came

5:43

up during the trial against Jennifer Cumbly, she

5:45

dismissed it. She said, oh,

5:47

that was an ongoing joke between him and

5:49

us because we were joking that the house was haunted

5:52

and he was hearing the ghost. If your kid is

5:54

like, I'm hearing voices, you're going to be like, oh,

5:56

that's because our house is haunted, honey, that's so cute

5:58

and funny. At

6:00

the end of the day for students

6:02

were killed and I want to share

6:04

the names the victims: seventy year old

6:06

Madison Baldwin, six year old Tape Meyer,

6:09

Seven, She'll Just and Schilling and fourteen

6:11

year old Hannah to Leona Sanctuary on

6:13

and seven others were wounded like an

6:15

hour or so after the shooting. The

6:17

parents are like texting ham and. Like

6:19

where are you were sick on? what are you

6:21

doing. Then by the way that the

6:23

parents ran they have thought that they

6:26

were found him like I said like

6:28

an industrial warehouse or something hiding out

6:30

and Jennifer was having an affair with

6:32

this guy who testified and she was

6:34

like hey can't meet for our quickie

6:37

in the Dunkin Donuts because we're on

6:39

the Lam Mugu, get a helicopters are

6:41

looking for us and her affair partner

6:43

testified that on the day of the

6:46

shooting the day she said I can't

6:48

take my son home because I gotta

6:50

work and they would. Meet up like

6:52

at the hospital parking lot to she

6:54

had time to do that the necessity

6:57

for Sun Home and she was a

6:59

real see professionals of and her own

7:01

boss has to fight it. She could

7:03

actually work from home. There was a

7:06

week of testimony of you know fum

7:08

school employees, law enforcement officials, victims and

7:10

those who knew her. And as I

7:12

mentioned before one of the counselors Sun

7:15

Hopkins said we have emailed them with

7:17

concerns about he sand and the saddest

7:19

part. So the prosecution was arguing because.

7:22

This narrative has gotten changed many

7:24

times. A lot of right wing

7:26

talking heads are saying oh, were

7:29

responsible The Okay: They're saying that

7:31

she was grossly negligent in giving

7:33

the gun that we already know.

7:36

But it's to what you mentioned

7:38

before, it was failing to give

7:41

him proper mental health care. Not

7:43

even seeing his habits and noticing

7:45

what their son was doing, he

7:48

asked for help. They found his

7:50

journal in the home. and the

7:52

is for some of the accepts that

7:54

they read quote i have zero help

7:56

for my mental health problems and it's

7:59

causing me to shoot up the

8:01

effing school. Quote, I want help,

8:03

but my parents don't listen to

8:05

me, so I can't get any

8:07

help. Quote, my parents won't listen

8:09

to me about help or a

8:11

therapist. Quote, I want to shoot

8:13

up the fucking school so badly.

8:15

Quote, soon I'm gonna buy a

8:17

nine millimeter pistol. Yeah, he asked

8:19

for therapy. That is what is

8:21

so sad to me that

8:23

it wasn't like, didn't you notice these

8:25

things? Because one of my favorite TED

8:27

talks is from one of the mothers

8:29

of the Columbine shooter. I can't remember

8:31

her name, but I've spoken about it

8:34

before. This isn't an instance where you're

8:36

not noticing what's happening with your kid.

8:38

He was begging for help. And

8:41

that is what absolutely breaks my heart, that

8:43

he knew that there was something wrong and

8:45

they, for whatever reason, denied him. He's begging

8:47

for help, and then you're providing him with

8:49

weapons that forget hurting other people. He could

8:51

kill him, he could hurt himself. There was

8:53

a concern at the school, because the parents

8:55

said, we can't take him. If you don't

8:57

want to keep him to school, he can

8:59

walk home alone. And school officials were like,

9:01

well, we're afraid he'll hurt himself, so we

9:03

don't want to do that. And they don't

9:05

even know about the gun. But the parents,

9:08

when the police searched the house, they found

9:10

multiple BB guns, knives, and targets in

9:12

Ethan's bedroom. I mean, you've got a

9:14

15 year old boy, you're

9:16

providing him with implements of murder, basically.

9:18

Like here's weapons, and you can hurt

9:20

yourself and hurt others with. And this

9:22

is somebody who is clearly not already

9:24

having mental health issues. Part of her

9:26

defense was like. Oh my god, her

9:29

defense attorney needs a frickin'

9:32

movie, a musical. They didn't

9:34

have a lot to work with, okay. Was her name

9:36

Shannon Smith or Sharon Smith? I don't even know. They

9:38

didn't have a lot to work with, is what I'm trying

9:41

to say. And you know, her defense was basically, I don't

9:43

know nothing about guns. I don't know nothing about

9:45

guns, but I know they can kill people. The

9:47

Husband was supposed to secure the weapon.

9:49

She was full of excuses. And Then

9:52

she said that a lot of teens

9:54

in this area in Oxford, Michigan have

9:56

weapons. In Fact, teens will pose with

9:58

their guns at prom. Like an

10:00

official have to remind them: don't come to

10:02

school with your guns like it's a common

10:04

thing. Maybe. But maybe.

10:06

Not with teens who are like clearly having

10:09

some kind of as a health crisis and

10:11

begging for help and telling you I'm hearing

10:13

voices. I'm. Not. First of

10:15

the will be understand and in terms of

10:17

like the charge itself which. Was. Involuntary

10:20

Manslaughter The prosecution's. So

10:22

two things that out and as are grossly

10:24

negligent, which I think it's pretty clear. Ellen

10:27

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10:29

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11:41

else she said She blamed the school

11:43

and said, well, why didn't they check

11:46

backpacks This woman was doling out the

11:48

excuses and shirking all responsibility. She said

11:50

in a text message will i don't

11:52

understand what the school then check his

11:54

backpack or you know she was texting

11:56

her affair partner. With I named Brian Malone

11:58

said that the shooting and. could have been prevented

12:00

if the school, and the school should not

12:03

have allowed him to return to class, but

12:05

you're right, yeah, she's basically just passing the

12:07

buck. But girlfriend had lots of time to

12:09

hang out with her lover and he wasn't

12:11

the only one apparently, there were others and

12:14

I'm wondering how that's going for their marriage.

12:16

But here's the thing, given all of these

12:18

things, given all of the facts that show

12:20

clearly these are shit parents, guess what? It's

12:23

not a crime not to get your kids

12:25

mental health treatment, it's not, right? It's just

12:27

not. So the sets of really scary legal

12:29

precedent to me. How come? I'll tell you

12:31

how come. Because we're thinking about this

12:34

strictly in the context of a school shooting and

12:36

whenever there's a school shooting by a young person, we're like,

12:38

who the fuck got him to gun, right? But I want you to

12:40

think about it in the context of urban crime. What about a 15

12:42

year old who's like caught up with a

12:45

gang and he becomes a gang banger and

12:47

kills some people or whatever, or ends up

12:49

in some kind of a, any kind of

12:51

criminal activity where he's charged, did the parents

12:53

also get charged? Every time a minor does

12:55

something, shop listing a violent crime. I don't

12:58

agree because the situation isn't, oh,

13:00

we left the gun cabinet unlocked and

13:02

he got it and he shot. I

13:05

could argue that the charge was wrong,

13:07

but that's not the case. This

13:09

is someone who obviously grossly neglected

13:11

their child's mental health, who not

13:13

only was exhibiting dangerous, what

13:16

would you call it, he was

13:18

doodling. It was very clear, he

13:20

was drawing pictures of killing his

13:22

classmates, searching how to obtain bullets, but

13:24

he also expressed ideas of suicidal

13:26

ideation. He spoke about that and the

13:28

school said, hey, here's the problem,

13:30

we're scared. They can't kick him out

13:33

of the school. And the parents

13:35

still said, no. So the grow,

13:37

I do understand what you mean. We can't try

13:39

every parent whose kid goes and does

13:41

something awful. I totally agree. But I

13:44

think it's very important to know that

13:46

this wasn't just an accident. This was

13:48

a series of events in which the

13:50

parents could have intervened. You can easily

13:52

make that argument with a kid who

13:55

is like running the streets because his

13:57

parents aren't home because they're working two

13:59

jobs. mother's an addict. I mean,

14:01

the problem with presidents like allow

14:03

the prosecution of the prosecuted, which

14:05

are like underserved communities, black communities,

14:07

poor people, it's like the woman

14:09

who was the black woman who

14:11

was charged with accidentally registering to vote

14:14

in the wrong business or whatever, remember,

14:16

like she got right, remember that, right.

14:18

But here's the thing, the laws are

14:20

always used as a stick against the

14:22

most vulnerable. So this is such new

14:24

precedent, it's new law, basically. And the

14:26

question is, how will prosecutors use this

14:28

going down the line is criminalizing being

14:30

a shitty parent, the right thing. Well,

14:32

here, let me ask you a question

14:34

about that. I do want to know

14:36

you touched on this, to be very

14:38

clear, Jennifer Crombley is the first parent

14:40

in the United States to go on

14:42

trial for a mass shooting carried out

14:44

by their child. I believe so. Yeah,

14:46

I looked I couldn't find any other precedent.

14:48

Yeah, it definitely is. I looked it up

14:50

this morning, because I also was curious. But

14:52

let me ask you a question. I absolutely

14:54

understand what you're saying about that. And I

14:56

do agree. However, mass shootings,

14:58

just looking at under the umbrella of

15:01

mass shootings, mass shootings, the statistics say

15:03

are usually not carried out by that

15:05

kind of demographic that you're explaining this

15:07

president is not going to stay isolated

15:09

to a mass shooting. This is a

15:11

broad precedent that can be applied in

15:13

any situation. This is not just for

15:16

it's not like the prosecutions like

15:18

this is under a statute that

15:20

is only in mass shooting situations.

15:22

It's not that at all. This

15:24

can be applied in any case.

15:26

But in those situations, in those

15:28

underserved communities, do you think the

15:30

parents are going out and actually

15:32

purchasing those guns? Or do you

15:34

believe that they're obtaining them through

15:36

other means either by theft or

15:38

borrowing or finding them? This is

15:40

a woman who actually gifted her

15:42

son a method of murder, right?

15:44

I know guns are given. I

15:46

do know, you know, when she did that,

15:48

that's not in and of itself a criminal

15:50

act. Again, if you look at the two

15:53

prongs of involuntary manslaughter, it's gross negligence, and

15:55

it's something that's foreseeable. So if I'm an

15:57

asshole racist prosecutor, And I want to prosecute

15:59

some poor black woman because her kid her

16:01

14 year old kid was out on the

16:03

streets and got involved in A drive-by or

16:06

some kind of gangbang shooting or something like

16:08

that. I could be like, you know, your

16:10

kids on the street That's gross negligence. She's

16:12

part of a gang. That's foreseeable Like, you

16:14

know, you can foresee what's gonna

16:17

happen like, you know, criminal activity Like

16:19

those two prongs are not hard

16:21

to meet now would a jury convict

16:23

I don't know cuz you can indict a

16:25

ham sandwich, right? We always go back to

16:27

that I'm just saying it is a new

16:29

precedent It can be misused like all presidents

16:31

are and I think that worries people having

16:33

said that then the question that I asked

16:35

myself Is then I believe and there should

16:37

be consequences now in a situation Wait, can

16:39

I just ask no question about that scenario?

16:41

You just laid out just so we don't

16:43

in that scenario did the mother purchase the

16:45

weapon it wouldn't matter But that

16:47

is what matters in this case. No, no,

16:49

no, no It's not what matters because the

16:51

gross negligence is not the purchase of

16:53

the weapon the gross negligence here because

16:55

the purchase of the weapon Was completely

16:58

legal they were allowed to buy that

17:00

weapon for their child, right? But coupled

17:02

with him begging for it was I

17:04

totally understand what you're saying and I

17:06

don't disagree I think the gross negligence

17:08

was the day of the shooting them

17:10

walking away and saying we're not taking

17:12

him home when he's I think It's

17:14

the sum of the parts. I think

17:16

it's everything put together the putting a

17:18

firearm in the hands of a child

17:20

Who's experienced a mental mental health crisis

17:23

when a prosecutor brings charges? They're not

17:25

gonna do it apples to apples comparison

17:27

of in this case that all these

17:29

things happen that happen in it That's

17:31

not how it ever works. They look

17:33

at the bottom line ruling that okay

17:35

if I think this parent was grossly

17:37

negligent in any way and could have

17:39

foreseen like the Outcome of

17:42

whatever that crime happened to be those are

17:44

my only two prongs There's nowhere

17:46

in this ruling or there's nowhere in this

17:48

particular statute under which she was found guilty

17:50

But it says she had to have supplied

17:52

the weapon. That's what I'm saying So even

17:55

though you're making a factual comparison, it's not

17:57

gonna matter like legally. It won't matter if

17:59

other people are charged with this. If my kid

18:01

runs out tomorrow, 15 year old, or she let's say

18:03

my kid takes the car, and I don't know, she's

18:05

had a couple accidents that she runs somebody down like,

18:07

you know, a hit and run or something, right? I

18:10

mean, like, if a prosecutor wanted to charge me under

18:12

this precedent, he could probably he or she could probably

18:14

bring those charges whether or not jury would find me

18:16

guilty. I don't know. But I'm saying it's a scary

18:18

precedent for parents is what I'm trying to say. But

18:20

I don't know what the consequences should be

18:23

then. Right. Okay, so let me ask you

18:25

a question. What about social hosts liability laws?

18:27

I don't know a lot about them. It's

18:29

not my whole house, the liability of adults

18:31

who provide alcohol to people to children to

18:33

minors to people under 21, who then get

18:35

in right but that's a criminal act. That's

18:37

a criminal act. This was not a criminal

18:40

act. them buying their child the gun was

18:42

not a criminal act. them denying him therapy

18:44

was not a criminal act. It was negligent,

18:46

but it was not a criminal act. So

18:48

do you think that a gross negligence

18:50

char is at a charge? What charge

18:52

do you think would have been better

18:54

to not open this Pandora's box of

18:56

making this a new precedent? gross negligence

18:58

is one of the elements of the

19:01

charge, right to be found guilty of

19:03

involuntary manslaughter, you have to have been

19:05

grossly negligent. So that's already kind of

19:07

like worked into it. But here's the

19:09

thing, it's a criminal charge, I wonder

19:11

if it would have been better for

19:13

it to be a civil charge versus

19:15

a criminal charge, right make the parents

19:17

civilly liable for the deaths of these

19:19

children. I don't know. I don't know if

19:21

there's wrongful death suits against the family or not take

19:23

the kid away, obviously, like terminate parental rights. Like there's

19:25

a part of me that feels like really satisfied about

19:27

this is I'm like, yes, you should pay for we

19:30

don't know if she's gonna be sentenced to by the

19:32

way, I don't know what she's well, she's up for

19:34

15 years per count. And

19:36

she each count is for each child that

19:38

dies. So she's facing a total of 60

19:40

years. But a lot of people think that

19:42

they're going to run concurrent. But again, a

19:45

lot of people thought that this wasn't gonna

19:47

end in a guilty charge. So I don't

19:49

know. I don't like the way that this

19:51

could be used to hurt already hurting communities. That's

19:53

where I'm at about this. But I don't know

19:55

how this is gonna go. I mean, it's crazy

19:57

to me. Nobody expected this. I'm just looking Michigan

20:00

gun laws. Because they were not charged with

20:02

providing their child a weapon illegally. They were

20:04

not charged. That was not the charge. Now,

20:06

if they were the gun owners and like

20:08

if I, if that gun is registered to

20:10

me and I am negligent in securing that

20:12

weapon, there should definitely be culpability.

20:14

There is a certain amount of criminal culpability.

20:16

It says here, in Michigan, a person under

20:19

the age of 18 generally

20:21

may not possess a firearm in public

20:23

except under the direct supervision of an

20:25

adult 18 years of age or

20:27

older. Persons under the age of 18

20:30

may possess a firearm while at

20:32

or going to or from a

20:34

recognized target range, blah, blah. Persons

20:37

under the age of 18 may

20:39

possess a firearm while hunting. You've

20:42

got these kids at prom posing with guns in

20:44

this school. Yeah, but they

20:46

didn't kill anyone. No, but I'm talking about

20:48

the legality of whether or not they can

20:50

own it, right? What I'm saying is clearly

20:52

they are allowed to own guns there. They're

20:54

allowed to carry the weapons publicly. Like there's

20:56

whatever is happening in that jurisdiction. It is

20:58

not illegal for a teenager to run around.

21:00

No, I understand. Let's see what the chat

21:02

is saying here. Melissa says it's interesting that

21:04

it can happen with vehicular manslaughter too. We

21:06

discussed that as I bought my child a

21:08

2000 pound machine that can kill

21:10

people and you have to teach them to

21:12

use it properly. Amanda saying that there was

21:15

a mother charged in Virginia when the six-year-old

21:17

shot the teacher. So this is kind of

21:19

like the analogy I was making. The mom

21:22

left her own. Will you read that? I

21:24

don't know what you're reading. All right. Okay,

21:26

so in Virginia, a mom was charged when

21:28

a six-year-old got a hold of the mother's

21:30

gun and shot his teacher. But in

21:32

this case, that was the mother's gun and she

21:34

left her gun unattended. So it's like the analogy

21:37

I made. Like if I am the registered gun

21:39

owner and I am negligent in securing the gun,

21:41

definitely there's culpability here. But that's not kind

21:43

of what happened here. This was Ethan's gun.

21:46

Well, question then, I mean, I'm glad you're

21:48

bringing this up. This is a great conversation,

21:50

but what do you think of them running?

21:52

I mean, it's just a bad look. Not

21:54

that that has anything to do with the

21:56

charge, but that's very peculiar. It's also just

21:59

gross human behavior. Your child just

22:01

took children's lives and

22:04

they're running and they had a bunch of cash

22:06

on them. I mean, they're clearly selfish, shitty people.

22:08

I mean, like, I don't know what else to

22:11

say. Oh, my gosh. Did you hear also what

22:13

she said? I

22:15

do not, for the life of me, understand

22:17

why they put that woman on the stand.

22:19

That was as stupid as— Oh, I know.

22:21

That's desperation. That's a lawyer's desperation. Alex

22:25

Murdock, she took the stand and

22:27

said—I think this was her

22:29

most damning statement. I think also this

22:32

is really what soured the jury. She

22:34

said that she wouldn't have done anything

22:36

differently as a mother, but wishes her

22:38

son would have acted differently in reference

22:40

to the shooting. No remorse, no culpability.

22:44

I mean, no nothing,

22:47

no responsibility. Accountability and

22:49

responsibility matters. Absolutely

22:52

no remorse, not a tear,

22:54

fingers pointing everywhere. What a

22:56

disgusting human being. You know,

22:59

listen, what that boy did

23:01

was awful. It shattered

23:03

so many lives, not only the lives

23:05

of the victims, the people that were injured,

23:08

those communities, those other children that are going

23:10

to suffer from CT. Oh, I feel terrible

23:12

for the kids. He's a PSI. I'm trying.

23:15

But a little part of

23:17

me feels bad for him that

23:20

he was so empty and he

23:22

had no—I tell Lola all the

23:24

time, my only job on this

23:26

planet is to keep you safe.

23:29

And those parents did not keep

23:31

them safe. Do you think civil

23:33

charges will come against the school? I

23:36

think it would be hard to make a civil case against the school. I

23:38

think the school did everything they could. They

23:41

didn't have full knowledge of what he was experiencing. They

23:43

didn't have access to his journal. They did not know

23:45

he had access to a gun. Do you think they

23:47

should have called CPS as soon as the parents refused

23:49

to take him out of the school and get him

23:51

put into state's custody? I don't think so. And the

23:53

reason for that is because if they knew he had

23:55

a gun, yes. If they knew the parents had provided

23:58

him a gun, yes. having

24:00

hallucinations and they're still not taking care of him, yes. But

24:02

they didn't know any of this. And here's the thing. Look,

24:04

I have a six year old, right? He's

24:06

almost seven. Yassin has more than once. He

24:08

loves to draw tanks and guns and like

24:11

scary monsters with bloody teeth. Like my girls

24:13

never did this. I just think it's a

24:15

boy thing. He also likes to draw buttons.

24:17

Okay. Doesn't he also like have a crush

24:19

on his cousin? Doesn't he like love his

24:21

like cousin or something? It's actually my cousin,

24:23

but now he has a crush on our

24:25

neighbor's daughters who live down the street. And

24:27

he's a real romantic, right? But the point is

24:29

more than once I have had his teacher contact

24:32

me, like he's not allowed to draw like guns

24:34

and he'll take his little Legos and he'll make

24:36

little like I made a little gun. I

24:39

made a little robot with a tank. And I'm like, listen, I

24:41

know like this is like what you as a little boy

24:43

loves. You'd like to watch this. But I was like, you

24:45

can't do it at school. You can't do it. You

24:47

know what I mean? Like, and he's generally a very well

24:49

adjusted happy child, right? So there's not all these other issues

24:51

that I see with it. So for the school

24:54

to be like, well, he made this really crazy

24:56

drawing and he's looking at bullets, but he doesn't

24:58

have a gun as far as we know. So

25:00

I think they showed the right level of concern

25:02

and they did the right thing. But

25:04

if they had known he had a gun that he

25:06

owned a gun had access to a gun, and they

25:08

still let him back into school, then maybe they would

25:10

have some like civil liability. I don't think I think they

25:12

did the right thing. I think they followed all the protocol.

25:15

I can't wait to hear. But I'll

25:17

say this all y'all with teenagers, just

25:19

be careful now because if that kid

25:21

does something crazy and teenagers just makes

25:23

ultimate dumb choices, you know, all the

25:25

best, the most well-adjusted teenagers will make

25:27

dumb choices. Sure. I'm saying this

25:29

is the kind of precedent which would mean that you might be liable

25:31

for those dumb choices. We will see

25:33

how much time she gets. Her sentencing

25:35

hearing is on April 9th. Again, she

25:38

does face 60 years in prison. That's

25:40

15 years for each count. I'm interested

25:42

to see what our listeners think. Please

25:45

join our Facebook group. We'll start a

25:47

discussion there because I do understand both

25:50

sides. There were several interviews with some

25:52

of the victims' families. And

25:54

again, nothing brings back their babies. But

25:56

I think it's an interesting conversation to

25:59

have. And I think I don't think

26:01

this is the reason but I think

26:03

people are so sick of thoughts and

26:05

prayers with school shootings that Maybe

26:08

this is something that is in the future

26:10

for it. I don't I don't know I

26:12

don't know if it'll make it better or

26:14

worse I mean, here's the thing though This

26:16

is all trickle down criminalization and law enforcement

26:18

and just leads to mass more mass incarceration

26:21

Fucking regulate guns better fucking bad guns

26:23

I mean like we're the only country

26:25

that thinks it cannot survive without access

26:27

to all these incredibly harmful Weapons other

26:29

nations do just fine every other country

26:31

in the world Hundreds of them people

26:33

do just fine. None of us are

26:35

rising up against the government to fight

26:38

an un whatever, you know An unjust government.

26:40

It's not happening. I mean like happy rapia,

26:42

you know that will never happen in our

26:44

lifetime So what we're doing is we're actually

26:47

ignoring the disease and we're just trying to

26:49

keep Treating symptoms by locking people up and

26:51

locking people up and locking people up. Well,

26:53

you know that the Defense

26:56

attorney quoted Taylor Swift incorrectly She

26:58

quoted Taylor Swift, but she said

27:00

band-aids don't fix bullet holes and

27:03

she quoted her in her I think it

27:05

was her closing remarks and she misquoted her

27:08

by the way, but it's true We're treating

27:10

the symptoms and we're not treating the problem

27:12

We're giving guns cough medicine instead of a

27:14

nebulizer to get to the root of what's

27:16

happening. So I get it It's a very

27:18

interesting conversation. I think we'll probably see more

27:20

of this but also that woman's a piece

27:23

of shit She really is a piece of

27:25

shit. She didn't say she was sorry.

27:27

She didn't say she felt bad She

27:29

can honestly she can choke on a

27:31

deck she is but 60 years in

27:33

prison Sure, what let me before we

27:35

go on to our next topic

27:38

What do you think if it was

27:40

the court of rabia? What

27:42

would be the charge and what would be the punishment?

27:44

I think if it was a court of rabia, there

27:46

would be Civil damages

27:48

they have to pay I think they would lose

27:51

their parental rights I think they would

27:53

lose the ability to ever purchase weapons

27:56

again. I think there would be maybe

27:58

20 years community

28:00

service. I think there would be

28:02

a lot of counseling. There would be a lot

28:04

of other things. I would force them to go

28:06

on a fucking countrywide tour and talk to other

28:08

parents about what they did and how they effed

28:10

up, you know, scare people straight. I'd be very

28:13

creative, Ellen. They'd have to cook for me every

28:15

weekend. I can't wait for our

28:17

lady commune coming in 2026. I'm

28:20

going to start my own arbitration council, and then

28:22

I can decide all kinds of matters there. It'll

28:24

be at our commune. I'll come say

28:26

hi. And when you enter the compound?

28:29

Ellen is like lock everybody up. I'm

28:31

like, let's see how I get there.

28:33

When kids are involved, I get very, very

28:35

emotional and I get very heated. When you

28:38

when you enter Rabiya's commune, the gates will

28:40

open and it'll go down and down, down,

28:43

down, down, down, down,

28:45

down, shiny, happy people

28:47

out in shiny, happy

28:50

people. Right, Rabiya? That's what it'll

28:52

be on your no one. Yeah.

28:54

Listen, I don't know what's right. That woman is. Yeah,

28:56

you can't go to jail for being a shitty mother.

28:59

And she was a shitty mother. And if she hadn't

29:01

been a shitty mother, her son wouldn't have killed people.

29:03

I do believe that. Rabiya, I

29:05

know you have no worries, but imagine

29:08

lying awake at night worrying about all

29:10

the worries that you don't worry about.

29:12

And then your next day is just

29:14

awful. I can be the worst sleeper

29:17

sometime. But we got magnesium breakthrough. Yeah,

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30:29

I'm just gonna let me just relay a story

30:32

and this is something just happened the last few

30:34

days. There's a woman I know she has adopted

30:36

a child who he is a teenager has a

30:38

lot of behavioral issues and he picked up a

30:40

knife in the house they called the police and

30:42

they were terrified that the police are going to

30:45

shoot him thankfully none of that happened. His biological

30:47

mother was a meth addict and

30:49

so as a child he was born as an

30:51

addict and he has always had developmental and behavioral

30:53

issues right? Like this family has done everything they

30:56

can for him they're providing him all

30:58

kinds of care in the world and he

31:00

could still do but I mean

31:02

like I feel like the family is

31:04

like braced they know they know that like

31:06

he could get violent he has

31:09

a propensity to get violent like like you

31:11

know so would you say that okay they

31:13

could foresee what's coming and

31:15

they're grossly negligent because they allow

31:17

him to be in a house where

31:19

there's knives. No because they're getting him

31:22

help these people ignored their child begging

31:24

for help the situation where you're

31:26

telling they're trying their best if they

31:28

had said listen we got him help

31:31

we put him on medication we we

31:33

sought therapy we put him in

31:35

a re- but they did none of

31:37

that. I understand that what I'm trying to say

31:39

is I'm talking about the shittiest prosecutors who will

31:42

fucking want to prosecute anybody and anything and if

31:44

a prosecutor wants to make a case like that

31:46

they can and well and and so when you're

31:48

thinking about legal precedent you always have to think

31:50

what is the worst case scenario in which this

31:52

could be used and there's a lot of terrible

31:54

scenarios in which this could be used that we really ingest if

31:57

you have the wrong person deciding to bring

31:59

those charges. So it comes down to the

32:01

prosecutor. I'm conflicted about the whole thing.

32:03

I just fear the consequences of the

32:06

president. I do understand it. I think

32:08

it's a great topic of conversation. So

32:10

for my next story, I really debated

32:12

bringing this to about damn crime, but

32:14

I think it is really important to

32:16

talk about. So please note that this

32:19

is gonna be really hard for me

32:21

to talk about. I am going to

32:23

spare the gruesome details because they indeed

32:25

are absolutely gruesome. So I'm going to

32:27

glaze over as much as I can,

32:30

but know that this is all over the news

32:32

right now. We're gonna go to New Hampshire. This

32:34

is from a case in 2019, but

32:38

new details were just presented by

32:40

the prosecution on Thursday and on

32:42

Friday. And this is in regards

32:45

to the murder trial of Adam

32:47

Montgomery. Adam was accused of killing

32:49

his five-year-old daughter, Harmony. So just

32:52

for our brains, he is now

32:54

in prison on unrelated

32:56

gun charges. He is sentenced to

32:58

at least 30 years in prison.

33:00

However, his daughter Harmony in 2019

33:03

went missing and

33:05

has never been found. Now the

33:08

update to the case is on

33:10

Friday, Kayla Montgomery took the stand

33:12

to testify. And she's actually testifying

33:14

right now. I was watching it

33:16

this morning. It's happening right now.

33:18

She's the state star witness against

33:21

her ex-husband, Adam. So he

33:23

beat this little girl to death.

33:25

That is the crux of what

33:27

happened. And her testimony is very

33:29

hard to hear. She explained that

33:32

the family of five had been

33:34

living in their car after they

33:36

were evicted. Now Harmony was five

33:38

and she was potty trained, but

33:40

she had begun to have frequent

33:42

accidents. And she was having

33:44

bladder problems. She was having bowel movements.

33:46

And this increased with frequency, but they

33:48

were amid this chaos of housing. They

33:50

were in their car. They would go

33:53

to a homeless shelter. So the day

33:55

that in question that we're talking about

33:57

is December 7th, 2019. And

34:00

on this day, Kayla just testified on

34:02

Friday that she had lost control of

34:05

her bladder and Adam

34:08

beat her. Adam beat this baby

34:10

girl, punched her. Before

34:12

this incident, just to understand, Adam

34:14

and Kayla had gone to a

34:16

methadone clinic. They then went to,

34:19

I believe it was a Burger

34:21

King, to buy heroin and crack

34:23

cocaine that they had

34:25

used to get high before this

34:27

happened. Adam was upset

34:29

that this baby had had

34:32

an accident and hit her

34:34

several times and ended her

34:37

life that way. It gets

34:39

more awful because he then

34:41

for months put this little

34:43

girl in a bag and

34:46

hid her in

34:49

several places. From

34:51

a snowbank to a freezer

34:53

to the hallway of his

34:55

mother's house to a ceiling

34:57

vent in the homeless shelter.

35:00

And then he proceeded to take

35:02

the little girl's body to and

35:04

from work and put her in,

35:06

he was a cook, and put

35:08

her in the walk-in freezer. I

35:11

am saving a lot of details. I

35:13

will just tell you that. So

35:15

one of the questions came to Kayla. Now

35:17

Kayla was not her biological daughter. This

35:20

is really what I want to talk

35:22

about. Kayla was... Sorry.

35:25

But the guy, is his name Brian, the father?

35:27

Correct. He was the biological father.

35:29

And they had two kids together. And they

35:32

obviously said, why didn't you stop him

35:34

from beating this little girl? And she

35:36

said that he gave her a look

35:39

that was so scary that she feared

35:41

for her own safety. She kept repeating,

35:43

I was scared, I was scared. And

35:47

she told this whole story that

35:49

rather than calling 911 once

35:52

they realized she had died and

35:54

she explained all these things that

35:56

he did with her body. Now

35:59

there is... more. A lot of

36:02

fluids were found, fingerprints were found,

36:04

and Adam had

36:06

made Kayla help in the movement

36:09

of the body. And then

36:11

one day he decided

36:14

to dispose of her for good

36:16

and Kayla says she does not

36:18

know what happened. However, it is

36:20

very important to note that when

36:23

she was in front of Grand

36:25

Jury, she lied about everything. She

36:27

had no idea and she said

36:30

she was lying to protect herself

36:32

and Adam says that Kayla killed

36:34

the baby. So that is what

36:36

the defense is going to say

36:38

because she looked at the jurors

36:41

the other day and said I

36:43

did not kill Harmony but then

36:45

during cross-examination she also had to

36:47

acknowledge that you looked at the

36:49

Grand Jurors in May of 2022

36:51

and you said you had no

36:53

idea what happened to this girl.

36:55

So that all needs to be

36:58

taken into consideration. And they still

37:00

haven't found Harmony. No, and they

37:02

didn't even know she was missing

37:04

until two years after the last

37:06

time she was seen alive. And

37:08

it is gruesome y'all. It's bad

37:10

what is said to have

37:12

happened. And I respect

37:14

that that woman was probably scared but not

37:17

half as scared as that little baby girl

37:19

was. Not scared enough to call the police,

37:21

not scared enough to do something, not scared

37:24

enough to tell someone, not scared enough to

37:26

tell the truth the first time so that

37:28

fucking woman can choke on a prison baloney

37:30

sandwich. She is in prison right now serving

37:33

18 months for perjury. You know, listen, there

37:35

are several legal analysts have weighed in on

37:37

this and they basically say it's a he

37:39

said, she said it's going to be

37:42

very hard to overcome those accusations even

37:44

though a lot of the facts are

37:46

circumstantial and everything rides on Kayla's testimony.

37:48

I'm wondering about the other kids living

37:51

in the car with them. The other

37:53

children must have experienced violence

37:55

at the hands of one or both of

37:57

these people or witnessed what actually happened to Harmony.

38:00

Yeah, they haven't spoken to the

38:02

kids publicly or that hasn't been

38:04

made public. But something I want

38:07

to bring up in addition to

38:09

those fucking monsters that the office

38:11

of the child advocate office, there

38:13

was many people who failed

38:16

this child. This child was taken out

38:18

of her mother's custody, her birth mother's

38:20

custody at one month old. She was

38:22

placed in the Department of Children and

38:24

Families in 2014. Her

38:27

mother was an addict, her name's

38:30

Crystal Sari. She lost custody

38:32

of her daughter and then

38:34

she remained in foster care

38:36

until February of 2019 when

38:38

Adam Montgomery was awarded custody

38:40

by the juvenile court of

38:43

Massachusetts. However, they did not

38:45

conduct proper investigation or interviews

38:47

pertaining to Adam at all.

38:49

They failed to conduct any

38:51

kind of assessment health wise,

38:53

drug wise. They didn't visit

38:55

the home before granting guardianship.

38:58

I mean the fact that

39:00

nobody knew she was gone for two years. Yeah.

39:03

So then months after she

39:05

was in the care of her dad,

39:08

neighbors had called CPS and in July

39:10

they received an anonymous tip from a

39:12

caller that was later identified as an

39:15

uncle claiming that Harmony had suffered a

39:17

black eye. And when the caseworker went,

39:19

they said, oh, she's got a red

39:21

mark on her eye and quote faded

39:24

bruising. That's what the document

39:26

said faded bruising and the dad said

39:28

the mark was caused by quote horseplay

39:30

with another sibling when a light

39:32

saber struck Harmony near the eye.

39:35

She was tiny. I just looked

39:37

at her picture. You

39:39

mean to tell me the office

39:41

that is in charge of protecting

39:44

children did a not thorough

39:46

investigation. There was a hundred

39:48

and one page report that

39:50

was released that details Harmony's

39:52

time in and out of

39:54

foster care. In addition to

39:56

the judge awarding custody to

39:58

Adam despite no. assessment ever

40:00

done of this baby. None.

40:02

No assessment. They failed. She

40:04

also had medical needs. She

40:06

also had special learning needs.

40:08

They failed to prioritize that

40:11

in any of their documents. I feel

40:13

like we hear this story over and over and over

40:15

again. It is disgusting. It is absolutely

40:18

revolting that everybody failed her and that

40:20

I don't know what to believe. I

40:22

don't know what to believe because Adam

40:24

is going to say the exact opposite.

40:27

At a minimum, at a minimum, Kayla's

40:29

an accessory. Absolutely. At a minimum. Oh,

40:31

she, yeah. Has she been charged as

40:33

well with anything? She's been charged so

40:36

far just with perjury but I have

40:38

heard and this is not corroborated that

40:40

she took some kind of a plea

40:42

to make this, to go through

40:46

with her testimony. I'm nauseous. I'm

40:48

like I'm very very not okay

40:50

right now when I was reading

40:52

everything that they did not do.

40:55

What are you doing? I recognize

40:57

it's a hard job. I really really

41:00

do when you see this baby. Oh

41:02

my god. Like did they ask her

41:04

what happened? Did she get hit by

41:06

the lightsaber? I mean what I wonder

41:08

is I understand why the prosecution might

41:11

make Kayla a deal in exchange

41:13

for a testimony because otherwise they don't, that's like

41:15

kind of the only evidence they had that this

41:17

guy, that Adam actually killed Harmony but the fact

41:19

that she's actually missing is also kind of evidence

41:22

that you did something to your kid and I

41:24

wonder if they would have been just okay charging

41:26

them both with murder and he hasn't

41:28

offered where the body is. No

41:30

because he says Kayla did it

41:32

but Kayla says when you hear what

41:35

happened to this baby girl's body

41:37

you will lose your lunch. It is

41:39

inhumane, it is disgusting, it is

41:41

and she told us

41:43

right there on the stand and

41:46

it's awful and so the trial is ongoing

41:48

right now. Like what's going on right now?

41:50

I believe I mean as of this morning

41:52

she was still on the

41:54

stand. Shannon says how

41:56

much do you want to bet they are

41:58

understaffed and under? paid. Yes, I

42:01

totally agree. I could not do that.

42:03

I could not do that job. I

42:05

want to say that right now because

42:07

if I were to go into any

42:09

house and see anything that was remotely

42:11

assistive, I would just take a child.

42:13

I would just take them. I would

42:15

snatch them. I would get arrested for

42:17

kidnapping. I would just scoop them out

42:19

of there. So that trial is ongoing.

42:21

He also is very cocky and he

42:23

decided to wear shackles and not a

42:26

leg brace because the leg brace is

42:28

inconspicuous and he opted for shackles and

42:30

the judge said you do understand that

42:32

this will make you look like an

42:34

incarcerated individual. It might take like you're

42:36

already convicted and you're already guilty. Yeah,

42:38

correct. Yeah. He was like nope. I'm

42:40

good. I'm good. I'm good. So I

42:42

don't know if he's gonna take the

42:44

stand but this baby was failed by

42:46

a system that was meant to protect

42:48

her abused by her family since she

42:51

was one month old. This is the

42:53

lock them up and throw away throw

42:55

away the key. This kind of situation

42:57

makes me say I'm all for the

42:59

mass incarceration of people like frankly as

43:01

I am against incarceration but they're just

43:03

they're monsters. They're monsters and they're also

43:05

addicts and you got that too right?

43:07

It's like yeah Ashley

43:10

is that a is that a fact Ashley? You should

43:12

offer him a deal that listen tell us where she

43:14

is and we will not throw the book

43:16

at you. I don't know if in this

43:18

state what state is this in New Hampshire? They're in

43:20

New Hampshire. I don't think the death penalty is exists

43:23

in New Hampshire anymore but you know they

43:25

could offer him something something less than life

43:27

maybe possibility parole after 40 years or 30

43:29

years if he could just tell them where

43:31

she is. Capital punishment was abolished in New

43:33

Hampshire in 2019 but what could

43:35

they offer him? What I just said they could

43:38

offer him like life with a possibility of parole.

43:40

Just a possibility of parole. Right. It doesn't mean

43:42

he'll get it but just offer him the possibility

43:44

otherwise you're gonna be asking for life without the

43:46

possibility of parole is what I'm guessing. Ashley said

43:48

that state workers make $35,000 a year their caseload

43:50

is 115% and Brianna

43:57

says in the chat not excusing the

43:59

bruise but a nerf blaster can detach

44:01

your retina. Social workers have

44:03

to keep those things in mind during investigations too.

44:05

Yes, I want to tell a story about that

44:07

when I was a little girl. I broke my

44:09

nose. Still broken. Look at that crooked nose. I

44:11

broke my nose. Remember, did you ever do that

44:14

thing where you would put your leg on a

44:16

bar and you would swing around? Oh heck yeah.

44:18

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So

44:20

I did that and someone called my name and I looked

44:22

and I went diagonal. Boom. Mashed my

44:24

face. Yeah. Oh, God.

44:27

Oh, baby. And I will never forget

44:29

this. Dr. Lewis said, went in

44:31

with my mom. My mom was hysterical crying

44:33

and said, Ellen, what happened? My mom goes,

44:35

oh my God, it was the craziest thing.

44:37

And he goes, I need Ellen to tell

44:40

me. And this was back, you know, when

44:42

dinosaurs were roaming the earth. The professionals. Did

44:44

Kaylin, because in the statement it said

44:47

that Adam explained that because if she

44:49

was four years old, she could say,

44:51

you know, my brother hit me with

44:53

the thing. So I totally agree with

44:55

you, Brianna, in the chat here. But

44:58

I don't know. Because they were called several times.

45:01

Once, twice, three times. How many times

45:03

do you start? There are situations in

45:05

which abusive parents will pick one child

45:07

to take all the abuse out on.

45:10

So you might not see it on the other children. The other

45:12

children are afraid to say anything because they don't want to become

45:14

the target. There are, we've seen lots

45:16

of situations like that. It's even more

45:18

horrifying in a way because that

45:20

child's got to feel like, why me? Yeah. Of

45:23

all the other, why me? But again, this is not

45:25

the kind of thing that happens just once. People like

45:27

that do it over and over and over. They do

45:29

it with other children. I refuse to

45:32

believe there weren't any DV charges against him. You

45:34

know, there's got to be more of a history

45:36

there. The fact that they didn't even do a,

45:38

they did no kind of due diligence before she

45:40

was even placed. That's all kinds of red

45:42

flags. I don't care how little you're getting paid. That

45:44

you have failed your job. If you don't even do your

45:46

due diligence before placing her in the custody of this man

45:49

who you have no idea like what he's

45:51

like or his home's like. Yeah. And

45:54

again, I keep an eye on this case

45:56

and all these years later, we can only

45:58

hope for justice for that. little baby.

46:00

She's so precious. So

46:03

I'll keep an eye on it but it was it

46:05

was that was fueling my rage all weekend so thanks

46:07

for letting me share. Hey Ellen. Hi

46:09

Raviya. I'm really excited about something. What?

46:11

I am starting a new online

46:13

business and I am going to use Shopify to

46:16

set it up. We're too busy. What kind of

46:18

online business are you starting? You're selling lip injections.

46:20

I knew it. No you know how so many

46:22

people ask me for like how to make my

46:24

jai and they wanted my jai recipe and they

46:26

wanted my jai bags and stuff. I have the

46:28

entire supply thing in place. All we need is

46:31

an e-commerce site and guess where I'm gonna get

46:33

it from? Shopify. Shopify

46:35

is a global commerce platform

46:37

that helps you sell at

46:39

every stage of your business. Joey

46:41

and I over on I think

46:43

not. We sell our merch there.

46:45

Raviya is gonna be selling her

46:47

jai. So from your launch online

46:49

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46:51

your first real-life store stage, Shopify

46:54

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46:56

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in. shopify.com/ solve the case. So

47:43

I you know it's interesting there's an

47:45

election going on in Pakistan right now and

47:47

you know what kind of a democracy I'm

47:49

using like some but really the military

47:52

controls it and so the former prime

47:54

minister was locked up on just some

47:56

people would say bogus charges and he's

47:58

in prison he just got while I

48:00

was still in Fox City 24 years sentence

48:03

for selling gifts that he had gotten as

48:05

a prime minister like he had gotten state-level

48:07

gifts and then he had sold any other

48:09

point is this is totally a political prosecution

48:11

right and I think about that it enrages

48:13

me because he was popularly elected and what's

48:16

happening now in selections his entire party was

48:18

outlawed so they couldn't even run as a

48:20

party anymore like he had a really popular

48:22

party this guy his name is Imran Hahn

48:24

they outlawed the party so what people did

48:26

was they voted in the last few days

48:29

during election in Pakistan they voted in

48:31

overwhelming numbers for people representing the party but

48:33

who are running as independents but really they're

48:35

part of this party but the Election Commission

48:37

there it's all corrupt right so are like

48:39

well no they don't really count that's a

48:41

strategy right it's a strategy but it kind

48:43

of doesn't matter because the Election Commission is

48:45

like we're nope the election is still goes

48:47

to the ruling party like they're

48:50

that's what's gonna happen right they're not gonna win this

48:52

and that guy's gonna probably die in prison if

48:54

the whole thing is a big political prosecution anyhow I'm

48:56

the reason I'm even bringing that up because what's kind

48:59

of happening right now in the United States with Trump

49:01

and this is you know when I when I was

49:03

in the 40 I had a podcast called the 45th

49:05

which was about a the 45th presidency where Susan Simpson

49:07

and I every week just talked

49:09

about what is happening the Trump administration as

49:11

he was president in that week and it

49:14

was just a shit show that wouldn't end

49:16

and it was one of those things where

49:18

I and Susan went back and forth about

49:20

because we disagreed on the the issue of

49:22

whether not Trump should be prosecuted criminally for

49:24

like his clearly criminal behavior and Susan was

49:26

always like listen once you go down the

49:28

route of criminally prosecuting

49:30

elected well not any elected

49:32

official but really the head of your state she's

49:35

like then it's just a yo-yo then the next

49:37

party in power will do that to the previous

49:39

one and then they just go back and forth

49:41

she's not wrong about that's what I'm seeing like

49:43

in Pakistan like I said now you see this

49:45

all over the world and and then they'll just

49:47

outlaw the party they'll say the whole party's their

49:49

terror or whatever that just make up something that'd

49:51

be hilarious if they're like you guys were closing

49:53

up shop Republicans it was

49:55

a good run okay close

49:57

up we're out thanks guys peace

50:00

out Republicans. Well, I mean after

50:02

9-11 under the guise of terrorism, a lot

50:04

of countries around the world outlawed certain political

50:07

parties and said you can't even run because you're a bunch

50:09

of terrorists. I mean, you know, you just have the right judge

50:11

make the decision and that's the end of that. Anyhow, right

50:13

now what's happening is that Trump

50:15

is asserting complete presidential immunity from

50:17

criminal liability, okay, for his actions.

50:19

And last week what happened was,

50:22

so he's like basically been charged,

50:24

there's a trial was going forward,

50:26

his defense counsel took it

50:28

to a federal appellate court and said, no

50:30

wait, he's got presidential immunity. Last

50:32

week a three judge from the US Court

50:34

of Appeals for DC unanimously

50:37

rejected Trump's argument that he had presidential immunity.

50:39

Trump's like I can't be prosecuted for crimes

50:41

I did while I was in office, but

50:44

they're like nope, you became an ordinary citizen

50:46

in the eyes of the law after leaving

50:48

office and in the opinion

50:50

they wrote, for the purpose of this criminal

50:52

case former president Trump has become citizen Trump

50:54

with all the defenses of any other criminal

50:56

defendant, but any executive immunity that may have

50:58

protected him while he's served no longer protects

51:01

him against his prosecution. Now a couple of

51:03

things, but what the appellate court said was

51:05

we're sending this right back to trial, you

51:07

are gonna go and be prosecuted, you know,

51:09

you're gonna sit through the trial like any

51:11

other criminal defendant unless you take this to

51:13

the Supreme Court by Monday, that's now, that's

51:15

as we are recording today. They're like you

51:18

have until today to take it to the

51:20

Supreme Court, he will undoubtedly, maybe he's filed

51:22

while we're recording, he will undoubtedly file some

51:24

kind of last ditch effort at the Supreme

51:26

Court to see if he can get the

51:28

Supreme Court, which is largely comprised, I mean,

51:31

of justices that he, you know, appointed and

51:33

they have the power

51:35

there to see if what they'll say,

51:37

but you know, so he'll probably make a last ditch

51:39

effort, file some kind of petition there and

51:42

if he does then the appellate court is gonna

51:45

stay their order until the Supreme Court makes a

51:47

decision. They could do a couple of things, if

51:49

the Supreme Court decides to take this decision they

51:51

could fast-track it, or they could just deny it,

51:53

they could just outright be like we're not

51:55

even like considering the petition at all, so

51:57

that's it, he's stuck with the appellate court.

52:00

ruling, they could take it if they

52:02

take it this literally goes into the

52:04

election. But here's the thing, if he's

52:06

back in office, then according to the

52:08

appellate court itself, once you're in the

52:10

office, you're protected from criminal his

52:12

immunity. He has so much writing

52:14

on this. Like for him, it

52:17

comes down to his freedom, like

52:19

his life depends on this election.

52:21

And so do ours. Now

52:24

in the past, the Supreme Court has

52:26

twice considered the matter of presidential

52:28

immunity. In both cases, it was Nixon. In

52:31

74, they ruled that Nixon,

52:33

while he was in office, had to comply

52:35

with the trial subpoena seeking tapes of his

52:37

conversations in the Oval Office. So Nixon

52:39

was in office and he was claiming

52:42

presidential immunity and executive privilege saying, I

52:44

do not have to comply with the subpoena,

52:46

but they said, no, you actually do. But

52:48

then eight years later, there's an Air Force

52:50

analyst who said he was fired in retaliation

52:52

for something, brought a civil case

52:54

against Nixon. And they're like, no,

52:57

he's not in office. And basically

52:59

the court was like, it's inappropriate. We

53:01

think it's appropriate to recognize absolute presidential

53:04

immunity from damages and liability for acts

53:06

when in the outer perimeter of his

53:08

official responsibility. The civil case, which is

53:10

a criminal case, what's interesting about the

53:13

criminal cases from 74 for Nixon is

53:15

that even though Nixon was in office

53:18

still, they're like, you still cannot get

53:20

out of complying with subpoena. Like your

53:22

executive privilege does not protect you. But

53:25

you know, it's SCOTUS. They

53:27

can make their own, you know, like president doesn't

53:29

matter at all. Anything can happen.

53:31

But this is happening at the same time

53:33

that I am just seeing more and more

53:35

op-eds every day calling for President Biden to

53:38

step down. To step down from the election

53:40

or step down from office? To step down

53:42

from the election, to not run again. I've

53:44

seen in the New York Times has run

53:46

a piece saying that he like they're like,

53:48

he's not of sound mind. He's too old.

53:50

He can't remember things. He's falling asleep. All

53:52

kinds of shit. And all I know is

53:54

we're going to get Trump for four more years.

53:56

I just want everybody to prepare. Y'all know this.

53:58

We're going to get it. He is going to drag out in

54:00

court, it is not going to be decided by the time the

54:02

election happens. He's going to win the election. I just

54:04

want everybody to brace themselves for that. Okay. Thanks

54:07

for that, Rabia. Happy Monday. I have one

54:09

more little quick story that I just wanted

54:11

to report about before Tim

54:14

is something good. You

54:16

haven't told me something good? I don't. Oh,

54:19

okay. Did you hear

54:21

about the shooting at that Texas

54:23

mega church, Joel Austin's mega church?

54:26

No, no, no. I didn't know about that. When did that

54:28

happen? It was a Sunday afternoon and a woman

54:31

in like a trench coat

54:33

with a backpack with a

54:35

child walked in and

54:37

open fired in this church

54:40

and then there were

54:42

undercover or maybe they were off

54:44

duty law enforcement and she was

54:46

killed. They have not as of

54:48

Monday. I'm sure by the time this

54:50

airs, we'll know exactly who she

54:52

was, but unfortunately the young

54:54

child was actually hit and

54:56

not killed. The child is

54:58

in critical condition right now

55:01

in Houston and they're not

55:03

positive if that was a

55:05

defensive bullet coming towards the

55:07

child or from the mother,

55:09

but Austin, he runs that

55:12

big Lakewood church of like, I don't

55:14

know, 10 kabillion. Isn't

55:16

his name Joel Austin? Maybe

55:19

you're right. What did I say? Austin.

55:23

Austin? Well, the

55:25

whole point of the story is like, you know,

55:27

he normally has like 45,000 people a

55:30

week there and he

55:33

just said everyone was in this

55:35

church and they had the sound

55:37

of gunshots that went off. Nobody

55:39

was killed, but there were injuries

55:42

and the big thing that they're

55:44

making a very big deal about

55:46

is that the shooter

55:49

used an AR-15 that had free

55:52

Palestine written on it. Oh my

55:54

God. Yes, I did hear something

55:57

about this. Okay. Okay. Okay.

56:00

available today on Monday but if we

56:03

do whatever

56:07

his toe's name said we don't he

56:09

was quoted as saying we don't know

56:11

what happened but we know God is

56:13

in control do not bring God into

56:16

your AR 15

56:18

conversation sir let's not but I

56:20

hope that baby is okay with

56:22

they weren't sure who it was

56:24

they didn't identify them with anybody

56:26

else also injured so in addition

56:28

to the child who's in critical

56:30

condition another man was also

56:32

injured no updates as to

56:34

if they are currently in the hospital

56:36

or not they just said he was

56:38

injured so hopefully they are okay and

56:40

healing oh and we will find out

56:42

what happened but that woman was killed

56:44

they just haven't identified her yet yeah

56:53

how do you feel about Valentine's Day Raviya

56:56

I don't care for it okay I

56:58

gotta be honest I've never liked Valentine's

57:00

Day when I was married committed in

57:02

a partnership I have never liked Valentine's

57:04

Day I have skipped it I've called

57:06

it a home mark holiday I love

57:08

hearts but I would wear this any

57:10

day I love hearts I love pink

57:12

I love red I love all that

57:14

stuff but it's just never been my

57:16

jam it's a homework holiday so the

57:18

Nebraska Humane Society who is pretty

57:20

funny online is looking

57:24

for you to have a petty

57:26

Valentine's Day get it petty but

57:28

also petty get it yes petty

57:30

okay nevermind forget it you get

57:32

I need more laughter oh

57:34

I'm sorry I'm smiling as hard as

57:36

I possibly can through clench teeth

57:38

so for a small donation to

57:40

the Nebraska Humane Society they are

57:43

offering to write the quote name

57:45

of your choice on

57:47

a doggy bag and that doggy

57:49

bag will eventually be used once

57:51

the pups do their thing they

57:54

will do their they

57:56

will pick up the dog poop they

57:58

will not light it on fire It's

58:00

weird that they had to make that very

58:02

clear and they

58:04

will leave it on your

58:06

ex's porch for you. Oh my god, you're

58:09

kidding me. Or they will take a picture

58:11

and send it to you. But it's a

58:13

nice way for them to earn money. The

58:16

going rate is $15 a bag for one

58:18

or $30 for two or as many names

58:20

as you want for a hundred dollar donation.

58:22

They're going to make millions and they're going

58:25

to be very, very busy. Isn't that fun?

58:27

A good way to make a donation. I

58:29

also just wanted to mention in a

58:31

tell me something good, do you know

58:33

that in Australia, is

58:36

it Australia? They're proposing a

58:38

bill that gives workers the right

58:40

to disconnect from their bosses and

58:42

if they message outside of business

58:44

hours, they will face a fine.

58:47

Isn't that cool? So we can't text each other.

58:49

If we were in Australia, we can't text each

58:51

other at three o'clock in the morning anymore, Rabia.

58:54

You're not the boss of me. I'm the boss of you.

58:57

Anyway, that was your tell me something good for

58:59

the week. Thank you so much for joining us

59:01

on this week's episode of About Damn Crime. What

59:03

do you want to tell the people, Rabia? We

59:06

are on Patreon. You can leave us

59:08

a speak type message. We'd

59:10

love to hear your messages and we do

59:12

a whole episode with them. We are on Facebook.

59:14

We have a private Facebook group. We have

59:17

amazing conversations and share all kinds of things there.

59:19

I don't know. What else? What

59:21

do we do? Follow us on socials.

59:23

Follow us on social media. Rabia and Ellen

59:25

spell it all out, even the double A

59:27

after the Rabia. And you can always send

59:29

us ideas for what you want to hear

59:31

covered on About Damn Crime. If it's a

59:33

smaller case or if it's a case you

59:36

just want us to weigh in on, go

59:38

ahead and shoot us a message on Instagram

59:40

or drop it in our Facebook group to

59:42

have a bigger conversation about it. We have

59:44

a wonderful community over there that engages in

59:46

respectful, educated, sometimes passionate discourse, but we

59:48

love it. And if you have a

59:51

moment, please give us a 5-star rating

59:53

on iTunes and write a little sentence

59:55

about what you love about us. And

59:58

Rabia and I have some tour dates. coming up. Yes,

1:00:01

I was wondering if you're gonna bring that up

1:00:03

or not. We are very excited. We'll delegate re-announce

1:00:05

soon and folks on the Patreon will get access

1:00:08

to the tour and the tickets

1:00:10

sooner than others. And we also have

1:00:12

merch coming out. And we have merch coming

1:00:14

out and there will be merch at our

1:00:16

tour dates. And you are going to love

1:00:18

the case. I have convinced Rabia to cover

1:00:21

for our next live show. Please stay tuned

1:00:23

for that and more announcements. We can't thank

1:00:25

you enough for being here. And until next

1:00:27

time, I love you, Rabia. I love

1:00:29

you, Ellen. And love all you listeners. Thank

1:00:31

you, guys. Thank you, Star Witnesses, for joining

1:00:34

us in the virtual audience. Thank you for

1:00:36

listening and we'll talk to you soon. Bye,

1:00:38

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