0:00

Hey, Rabia. Hey, Ellen. Tell our

0:02

listeners our really exciting news. We

0:04

are going on tour, Ellen. We're

0:07

going on tour. Wait, do

0:09

we have a name for the tour? Are we calling

0:11

it the Sequin Tour? Are we calling it the kebab

0:13

and the meatball tour? Listen, we didn't name the tour.

0:15

I think it's kind of the working title as Rabia

0:17

and Ellen Solve the Case Live Tour, which sounds kind

0:20

of boring. We should come up with something more exciting,

0:22

but right now I'm mostly disappointed. I'm changing it right

0:24

now. It's called the kebab and the meatball tour. So,

0:27

no. We're going on tour. Rabia,

0:29

tell them where we're going. Oh, I'm so

0:31

excited. Well, we're starting off on the East Coast.

0:33

We're going to be in Philadelphia on April 15th

0:36

and then New York on April 16th. Then

0:38

we're going to fly across the country and we'll be

0:40

in LA on April 30th, San Francisco on May 1st

0:43

and Portland, Oregon on May 8th. It is going to

0:45

be so fun. We have a Chicago date in there

0:47

as well. We're going to take a little break and

0:49

then we're going to be in the center. So, we're

0:51

going to go to Nashville July 3rd and we have

0:53

an amazing guest there. I'm so excited about Nashville and

0:56

then we'll be up in Chicago and that's

0:58

it for the tour for now, but we've got more dates coming. Go ahead

1:00

and go to our socials. You can find us

1:02

on Instagram at Rabia and Ellen. Don't forget I

1:04

spell my name with a Y or you can

1:07

go to our Facebook page and find a link

1:09

there. Come and see us live.

1:11

We're going to be doing a case with a

1:13

guest just like we do on our regular format

1:15

talk show. It is going

1:18

to be fun and informative. It

1:20

is a really interesting case. This

1:22

is a case that I have wanted to

1:24

cover for so long. Rabia finally said, Ellen,

1:26

why don't you do this for the live

1:28

show? So we are. It's a case that Ellen

1:31

snatched out of the hands of celebrity guests who wanted to

1:33

do it. She's like, nope, that's

1:35

my case. Nope. Yeah. So,

1:37

we can't wait to see you somewhere across the country. Get

1:40

your tickets today and we'll see you soon. On to the

1:42

show. Hi, Rabia. Hey,

1:44

Ellen. How are you doing, gorgeous? How

1:46

are you? I'm good. I'm

1:48

good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm

1:51

good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm

1:54

good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm

1:57

hanging in there. How are you? I am coming

1:59

at you from a hotel in Seattle. It's like 5am over there. Time

2:01

is up. No, it

2:03

is 11.37 and I had moved this recording

2:05

because I was worried I was gonna wake

2:07

up Joey, but then Harris left. It's a

2:09

hotel shimmy all around, but recording on tour,

2:11

what an adventure and here we are. But

2:14

look, you're a consummate pro. You actually have

2:16

the proper equipment, unlike me. I'm like, let

2:18

me find a little mic to plug in

2:20

to myself. Wait,

2:23

you all, this is a true story.

2:25

The very first time Ravi and I

2:27

needed to record ads, it

2:29

was before our first show went live.

2:32

We were actually at Obsessed Fest 1 and

2:34

we needed to record ads. And Ravi goes,

2:36

okay, should we just record on our iPhones?

2:38

I was like, okay, you know what? I

2:42

was like, this has been a huge mistake.

2:45

She's like, what, we'll just record into our iPhone, right? I

2:47

was like, I met it. Welcome

2:50

all our friends old and new

2:52

to About Damn Crime, our bi-weekly

2:54

show that is weekly on our

2:57

Patreon where we just cover anything

2:59

that's going on in the True Crime

3:01

headlines. Do you know someone, Ravi was just

3:03

explaining that Dateline is going to be doing

3:05

a similar podcast and they were explaining it

3:07

to me and I was like, oh, no,

3:10

no, Ravi Acharya and I do a show

3:12

like that too. Wait a minute, they're going

3:14

to do a podcast like this one, like

3:16

a talk show-ish podcast? It's just talking about

3:18

the weekly stuff in True Crime. No Dateline,

3:20

you are not allowed to do that. Listen,

3:22

there is always something going on. This is

3:25

just sort of the cases that appeal to

3:27

me and Ravi. Sometimes we

3:29

take your suggestions. If you would

3:31

like to have About Damn Crime every week, you

3:33

can visit us over on the Patreon slash Ravi

3:35

on Ellen. But before we get to the show,

3:37

Ravi, tell them the big news coming up and

3:39

what they need to do and all that fun

3:41

and jazz. Are you talking about the tour? Is

3:43

that what you're talking about? I am talking about

3:45

the tour. Ravi and I are going on tour.

3:48

We are going on tour April. This is Ravi's

3:50

first tour, my friends. It is. In case you

3:52

might not have guessed it, yes. I'm like, oh,

3:54

I should pull up tour dates. Let me see

3:56

when that is. I know what we're doing in

3:58

April. I'm very excited. We're starting off in... Philly on

4:00

April 15th. We will be in New York on

4:02

the 16th. Then we're going to hop over to

4:04

the West Coast. Are you sure those dates are

4:06

right? I am absolutely sure the 15th and 16th.

4:09

They're like basically emblazoned in my head.

4:11

Also, they are on this graphic right here. So

4:14

15th and 16th right here. I have right

4:16

here. We get a little close. Yeah, trust

4:18

you. And then we're going to be in

4:20

LA on the 30th of April in San

4:22

Francisco, the very next day on the 1st

4:24

of May. And then after little hiatus will

4:26

be in Portland, Oregon on May 8th. We

4:28

do have Chicago and Nashville dates coming up

4:30

too. So hold on to your horses for

4:32

those. We will have a guest. It will

4:34

be our regular structure of our show. We'll

4:36

lay out the case for you and then

4:38

hear some more information about the case. It

4:40

is going to be a grand old time.

4:42

I have forced Rabia to really embrace the

4:45

love of sequence on stage. And listen,

4:47

I got to tell you, Rabia, Elizabeth,

4:49

you have really nailed it. You have

4:51

embraced it with grace, honor, you have

4:53

honored the look. And

4:56

very proud of you. Ellen, I am more proud

4:58

of my heels than the sequence. Sequence were not

5:00

too hard to manage. You have made me pull

5:02

shoes out of my closet that I only bought

5:05

aspirationally. I never actually intended to wear. You know,

5:07

I was going to put them on and sit

5:09

and I'm like on stage in those heels just

5:11

because of you. You know what, I feel pretty

5:13

hot in them. So Ellen, how, when are

5:15

you getting back from the West Coast? How's

5:17

the weather out there? It's gorgeous here. We're

5:19

going to be in LA tonight. Oh, exciting.

5:21

And then we go to Tampa, Kansas City,

5:23

and then we do Indianapolis and Atlanta and

5:26

Nashville. It's great. I love being on tour.

5:28

It is so exhausting. It's really like I

5:30

said before, it's really just get somewhere, lay

5:32

down, do a show, then do it all

5:34

over again. But you guys are going back

5:37

to back to back, right? Like our tour

5:39

is not that physically demanding, I think. It's

5:41

like we got a couple of dates, we

5:43

take a break, got a couple of dates,

5:45

take a break. It's good for you to sort

5:47

of wade into the touring pool, right? It's good

5:49

for you. I don't know how you do it.

5:51

You Broadway people. It's exhausting in a different kind

5:53

of way. I mean, yeah, we are used to

5:55

that sort of show life, you know, and then

5:58

we say a couple hours after to see. say

6:00

hi to everyone. It's just a nice

6:02

way to see people. It's a weird

6:04

thing for Joey and I on I

6:06

Think Not because we're so used to

6:08

engaging immediately with our audience on Broadway

6:11

and podcasting, you know, it's just us in a

6:13

little room. Yeah, but it's just so nice to

6:15

see people. You guys come to life. You know

6:17

what I'm used to? I'm used to getting up

6:19

behind a podium on a stage, giving my talk,

6:22

people clapping and I walk off, never to be

6:24

seen again. I do

6:26

it so well. I do it so well.

6:28

So the whole like actually performing, responding to

6:30

the audience, this is not my thing, but you

6:32

know what? Together we can make this work. We

6:35

are going to make it work. It's going to

6:37

be amazing. Before we start our general feed editor

6:39

Rick Quahn came to our live show last night.

6:41

Oh, really? Nice. Yeah. And it was really, really

6:43

nice to see him last time he wasn't able

6:46

to stay for the live show because he had

6:48

a newborn. He drove all the way in to

6:50

say hi wasn't able to say and it was

6:52

like COVID-y stall. He came by and said hi.

6:54

It was just really nice. His editors, you know,

6:57

they're a big part of our show. It was

6:59

really fun to see him. Now we

7:01

kick off our about damn crime this

7:03

week. I'm dying to know what you

7:05

have before we get into your story,

7:07

Rabia. I just want to give a

7:09

little update. The reason it is a

7:12

little update is because we don't have

7:14

a lot of information, but I did want

7:16

to give a short update on a story

7:18

we told on about damn crime last week

7:20

on our Patreon episode. And

7:22

that was the missing

7:25

Riley strain. Since that episode

7:27

came out, some sad

7:29

developments. Friday, March 22, a worker

7:31

called and said that

7:35

he believed that he discovered the

7:37

body of Riley strain along the

7:40

Cumberland River. The worker told 911

7:42

he was face down in the

7:44

water, even though that area had

7:47

been sort of routinely

7:49

checked. He still was

7:51

found sometime after.

7:53

But here's the interesting

7:55

part. The autopsy so

7:58

far has uncovered no evidence

8:00

of foul play. It does

8:03

seem like it was a very

8:06

tragic accident. This is still

8:08

a developing story. That's why I

8:10

didn't want to harp

8:12

on it too much because it

8:14

seems like there was this massive

8:17

search launched. There were so many

8:19

things swirling about on the internet.

8:21

Not anything awful but mostly things

8:23

about the smiley face killers or

8:26

something nefarious happening to this young

8:28

man but as of right now

8:30

it does appear that it was

8:32

an accident. Now this is just

8:35

from the preliminary autopsy so let's

8:37

see what happens. It is just

8:39

really sad and devastating news.

8:42

I'm so sorry it took so long for

8:44

the family. I do have a question again

8:46

I don't want to comment too much because

8:48

maybe the later autopsy will

8:51

reveal more information. Rabia the

8:53

young boy he was 22 years old and he was

8:57

kicked out of the bar for being

8:59

too drunk. This kid was not

9:02

from Nashville. He did not know

9:04

where he was. He did not

9:06

know the area. So answer me

9:08

this question from a legal perspective.

9:10

If this child is too drunk

9:12

to stay in an establishment with

9:14

his friend how is he not

9:16

too drunk to wander the streets

9:18

of Nashville and what kind of

9:20

responsibility does the bar have to

9:22

kick an intoxicated young person out

9:24

without any supervision. I mean they're

9:26

just gonna be like I'm sorry

9:28

you're you're over 21 you're an

9:30

adult it's your responsibility but they kicked

9:33

this boy out. They didn't allow his

9:35

friend to go with him because his

9:37

friend had an open tab. It all

9:39

is a recipe for disaster. Can any

9:41

legal ramifications come on

9:43

this bar other than maybe a civil suit

9:46

from the family? Okay a couple things I

9:48

want to say. I think this is something

9:50

that happens all the time every day. Bars kick people

9:52

out because they are too drunk or because they

9:54

are unruly because they're whatever. It

9:56

is not the responsibility of a

9:58

private business enterprise. to be responsible

10:01

for the safety and security of citizens once they

10:03

are outside the premises. They're responsible maybe to a

10:05

certain extent when you're inside. You know, you slip

10:07

and fall, right? Like things like that. But

10:10

outside, because if you think about it

10:12

this way, let's say private business owners were

10:14

responsible when a patron left the premises.

10:16

It could be haywire if we made

10:19

private businesses liable for

10:21

making sure that their customers got home safely. I

10:23

mean, you could extend this out in many... But it's not

10:25

just a private internet. Let's say I'm putting an asthma attack. I'm

10:27

at Walmart. I'm having asthma attacks. And I walk out and Walmart

10:29

lets me walk out as I'm having asthma attack and I collapse

10:31

and the parking lot, are they? I mean, what is

10:33

their responsibility? If they are responsible... Right,

10:35

but it's a little bit different

10:37

because they're serving them a liquid

10:39

that will alter their brain chemistry,

10:41

that will change their emotions, that

10:43

will change everything. So listen, I

10:45

think alcohol is worse than marijuana.

10:48

The things that happen under the influence of

10:51

alcohol are far worse. So it's not like

10:53

going to Walmart because you've just consumed these

10:55

drinks. Now, in this situation, it was said

10:57

that he only had one drink on the

10:59

premises, but shouldn't there be

11:01

more of a burden to a bar

11:03

that is making people intoxicated? It would be

11:06

insanity. I mean, absolute mayhem if we held

11:08

bars responsible for what people did when they

11:10

got drunk and left afterwards. You know what

11:12

I mean? Like drunk driving. I mean, you

11:14

could extend this like so many things to

11:16

another. But they kicked him out. It

11:19

doesn't matter. They have rules. They're allowed to

11:21

have rules. They're allowed to say no shoes.

11:23

No shoes, no service. Is that what you

11:25

were about to say? Exactly. I'm saying like

11:27

a private enterprise can have like those rules

11:29

in their establishment. And when I as a

11:31

patron enter that establishment, I am agreeing to those

11:33

rules. I cannot go in and be like, I

11:36

don't care. I'm going to run around without my shoes off

11:38

because it is clear that there are certain rules in place

11:40

here. I mean, maybe I'm just saying like you're a horrible

11:42

person taking this drunk kid and saying, you're

11:45

too drunk to be here in this bar

11:47

dancing to Sweet Caroline. And also your friend

11:49

can't come with you because he's got to

11:51

pay his $17 bar tab. But

11:54

that doesn't mean the friend couldn't call his friend

11:56

in Uber and make sure he gets in the

11:58

Uber. I don't agree at all. the bar should

12:00

have any liability in this because it would be absolute

12:02

mayhem. The consequences of that like

12:05

you just shut down all the bars which is

12:07

fine by me but that doesn't mean that the

12:09

family cannot test these waters, right? Like that's what

12:11

I said. I doubt if there's any existing cause

12:13

of action but people always, you know, will try

12:15

and see what they can do so they can

12:17

maybe bring us to the lawsuit and you know, I

12:19

don't think it'll stick but I also just don't

12:22

think there should be any responsibility for the bar.

12:24

That's right. Well, I think that

12:26

they should have a ticket for not being

12:28

very nice people. I just don't know how

12:30

you can look at a young guy. He

12:32

looks young. He looks like a baby. He

12:34

is tall which is deceiving. He was 6'7".

12:37

He's old enough to drink and he's an adult and

12:40

he's also old enough to vote and serve in the

12:42

army and he's an adult by he's old enough to

12:44

go to prison for the rest of his life and

12:46

kill somebody. Legally, he's an adult, right? Legally, he's an

12:48

adult and it's just not a bartender's

12:50

I mean like a bartender, bartender

12:52

cannot have the capacity to like

12:54

make sure every single person as they are intoxicated.

12:56

Don't most people leave bars intoxicated? Isn't that what

12:58

bars are for? That's what I thought. Like what

13:01

happens to them afterwards once they're outside the door?

13:03

I don't know. Maybe I just don't

13:05

think it was very responsible. I just couldn't look at someone

13:07

who could barely stand up and be like, good luck on

13:09

the streets of Nashville, young lad. I'm gonna keep all your

13:11

friends in here. But here's the thing, Ellen. I bet that

13:13

happens every night. It happens every night in their bars and

13:16

you know, I'm sure it happens all the time in every

13:18

bar but people don't end up, you know, dead thankfully

13:20

at the end of it. I just would never

13:22

do that. I could never do that. There should

13:24

be a corner, a sober up corner where you

13:27

eat some granola and have some liquid IV. I

13:30

like that. It's a great political campaign

13:32

platform to campaign on. I understand what

13:34

you're saying. It just feels like lack

13:36

of community spirit, lack of taking care

13:38

of each other, lack of looking out

13:41

for your fellow man. I don't know.

13:43

It's just a small update on that case.

13:46

If this is a tragic accident, I honestly

13:48

don't know which is worse but that

13:50

poor family, none of his fraternity

13:53

brothers have spoken up. I

13:55

don't know what that is all about but maybe

13:57

there'll be more information but I am sending so

13:59

much love. to their family and

14:01

how they will ever recover from this.

14:03

The city of Nashville, it's a big

14:05

old party town and what I said

14:08

last week about Damn Crime on

14:10

our Patreon episodes holds true. Just please be

14:12

safe when you are out drinking. Stay

14:14

in groups, stay with each other, stay

14:16

in contact with people, have someone have

14:18

your location at all times. It's just

14:21

scary. You know I usually direct this

14:23

information to women honestly but we're talking

14:25

about a 6-7 dude.

14:27

It can happen to anyone so just please

14:29

be safe. Friends take care of your friends.

14:31

I mean yeah you have to. I think

14:33

what's really tragic to me is that he

14:35

had a friend

14:38

there. Rabia I

14:40

know you have no worries but

14:42

imagine lying awake at night worrying

14:44

about all the worries that you

14:46

don't worry about and then your

14:48

next day is just awful. I

14:50

can be the worst sleeper sometime

14:53

but we got magnesium breakthrough. Yeah

14:55

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14:57

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15:00

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15:02

magnesium breakthroughs contain all seven forms of

15:04

magnesium which by the way I did

15:06

not know there were seven forms of magnesium and

15:08

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15:10

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15:12

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15:14

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15:17

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15:19

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15:21

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15:23

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15:25

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15:27

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15:29

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15:36

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16:00

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code RABBIANELEN during checkout. So

16:09

I just came across this and I had never

16:11

heard of this case before, but it reminded me

16:13

of something that we've been talking about including I

16:15

think one of the updates you're going to do

16:17

and so I wanted to talk about it. So

16:19

on March 15th, which is just about a

16:21

week and a half ago, a man by the

16:23

name of Timothy Stevenson pleaded guilty to a murder that

16:25

happened 26 years ago. It

16:29

is a crazy case. So on

16:31

January 17th in 1998, a

16:34

man by the name of Randall Oliphant who was

16:36

26 years old left a Kansas

16:38

City gay bar and was never seen again.

16:41

So his mother reported him missing and

16:43

about two months later, his body was

16:45

found by two fishermen in this

16:47

rural area about 100 miles away from Kansas

16:49

City. He had died from gunshot wounds. His

16:52

body was badly decomposed, but the bottom

16:54

half of his torso was in better

16:57

shape and they found gunshot, the actual

16:59

bullets and stuff like that, pellets were

17:01

found in his remains, shotgun pellets, but the

17:03

homicide was never solved at the time. Now

17:05

it's not that the police didn't have a

17:08

good lead. They had a good lead and

17:10

that lead actually was this guy, Timothy Stevenson,

17:12

who just pleaded guilty. What happened was they

17:14

found on his person in his back pocket

17:16

a business card from that bar. So

17:19

they go to the bar and they talk to

17:21

the bartender. What bar has a business card? The

17:23

Dixie Bell Salone had it. That

17:26

person is like, you know what? I'm going to come back. Do

17:28

you have a business card? Can someone give

17:30

me, I need to put that in my

17:32

file a fact. But listen, that business card,

17:34

thank God for that because that gave the

17:36

police the lead and that's where he was

17:38

last seen at the Dixie Bell Saloon. It's

17:40

a saloon, a salon, saloon, right? I don't

17:42

know stuff related to bars. Saloon. Yeah,

17:45

there are places like an old timey saloon. A

17:47

salon is for your hair. I just think of

17:49

those swinging wooden doors. Yeah, yeah.

17:52

Saloon. So the police go there. The

17:54

bartender is like, oh yeah, I saw this guy in

17:56

here and he left with another guy and he positively

17:58

identified that guy as a woman. the man named

18:00

Timothy Stevenson. So the police start investigating Stevenson and

18:02

Stevenson's like, yep, listen, I did go home with

18:05

him, I took him home, we did our thing

18:07

and then I dropped him off at a different

18:09

bar and I never saw him again. And they

18:11

weren't able to basically do anything. There was no

18:13

evidence connecting him to the crime. Now this is

18:15

1998. Surprisingly, the victim

18:17

actually had a cell phone at the time because

18:19

I thought, you know, I mean like, but he was, yeah,

18:22

I mean it was nice. That's actually, yeah, I

18:24

think it wasn't until 2000 that

18:26

things really got going, but there were some people

18:28

with cell phones before that. I mean, hello, this

18:30

guy right here, Adnan, his cell phone gave us

18:32

a lot of trouble, okay, 1999. But

18:36

in 98, this guy did have a cell phone

18:38

and what the police found was the day after

18:40

he disappeared, his cell phone was still active and

18:43

it was actually active out in the area where

18:45

he was eventually found 100 miles away. So it

18:47

was either him and he was still alive or

18:49

it was the person who killed him and had

18:51

the phone. It turned out that the suspect,

18:53

Timothy Stevenson, was familiar with that area, even

18:55

though it was 100 miles away, but he

18:57

had relatives out there and he had spent

19:00

a lot of time there in his childhood.

19:02

So anyhow, they took samples from the victim's

19:04

body. They were like, we're gonna do DNA testing. For some

19:07

reason, the testing never happened. The whole thing,

19:09

the whole case just went cold, okay. They

19:11

never figured out what happened to Randolph. Stevenson,

19:13

on the other hand, Timothy goes on

19:15

with his life. He moved to Northern.

19:17

He was married to a woman at

19:19

the time this crime took place. Divorcer,

19:21

married to California and he married a

19:23

doctor named Joseph Ganejko. They adopted two

19:26

twin girls and at some point in

19:28

2014, for some

19:30

reason, I don't know if he was drinking or exactly what the context

19:32

was, Stevenson tells his husband that he

19:34

had killed Oliphant in the bathroom of

19:36

his home in Kansas City back in

19:39

1998. He said that at

19:41

the time when he killed him, Oliphant had pleaded

19:43

for his life and he shot him and he

19:45

pled for his life, then he shot him again

19:47

and killed him and then he disposed of his

19:49

body all the way out in Missouri. This happened

19:51

in 2014. Now,

19:53

his husband, who again was

19:55

a physician, didn't immediately turn

19:58

him in. Didn't say anything, in fact. It

20:00

wasn't until 2020 the husband

20:02

files for divorce and files

20:04

for restraining order saying that

20:06

this alleging domestic violence against

20:08

him. And then although the police have

20:10

not said that he came to the police, I think it's pretty

20:13

clear that he went to the police because then in 2020, 21,

20:15

boom, they reopened the case. Okay.

20:19

And part of that case is the fact that the

20:21

ex-husband now who is now ex is like, this guy

20:23

confessed to me. So they miked him and he went back

20:25

to his ex and had a conversation and was like trying

20:28

to solicit another confession on tape. Except this time

20:30

Stevenson was pretty shady. He kind of went back

20:32

and forth said, no, I didn't kill him. My

20:34

friend killed him. No, somebody else killed him. No,

20:37

I don't know. I just, but then I mean,

20:39

like, but there was enough there that they're like,

20:41

this guy has like, there's some connection. He's not

20:43

not connected. So all these years later, I don't

20:45

know if they re-upped the DNA testing. They still

20:47

have the physical evidence. Anyhow, even in 2021, 2022,

20:49

he was indicted, but then he was released on

20:52

parole. Okay. And he was

20:54

allowed to go and stay with his aunt, but this

20:56

guy's clearly having issues because in July, 2022, his aunt

20:58

called authorities and said, listen, I'm going to come pick

21:00

this guy up. He's having parties at

21:02

my house using drugs. The police executed search warrant

21:04

for the house. They found Stevenson smoking meth out

21:07

of a glass pipe. I mean, he has

21:09

spiraled since his divorce from the doctor. Yeah.

21:12

Yeah. So anyhow, they picked

21:14

him up and actually he was then indicted for

21:16

second degree murder, which is one thing I'm a

21:18

little bit confused about. Not first degree murder,

21:20

but second degree murder. So I don't know

21:22

that it could have been that the particulars of the case didn't call

21:24

for first degree, meaning like they didn't believe it was premeditated,

21:27

but meditation is like it can happen

21:29

in an instant. But he also then

21:31

pleaded to the murder and he was

21:33

just sentenced to 16 years, which doesn't

21:35

seem like a whole lot. And also

21:37

it's second degree murder. 16

21:39

years. Yeah. Yeah. And

21:42

Robby is saying that's not a lot of

21:44

time. Y'all hear ye, hear ye. Everybody

21:46

here, Robby and I agree. I just

21:48

met a man last night who robbed

21:50

a bank and shot at a cop, didn't

21:52

kill him. He served 18 years. For

21:55

like violent assault, people serve more than

21:58

that for possession. people

22:00

serve more than that. So it could be

22:02

statutorily that second degree murder conviction like there's

22:04

a limit to what you can be. What

22:06

do you mean statutorily? It's like mandatory minimums, right?

22:09

So judges, they can only sentence under the guidelines in

22:11

most states, right? So it could be that for this

22:13

class of conviction or this class of crime, if the

22:15

sentencing can be between five and 15 years and then

22:18

the judge has discretion. In this one, I think

22:20

it was actually up to 30 years, he could have

22:22

been sentenced to 30 years for some reason, he only

22:24

got 16. When he

22:26

was first arrested, his attorney told

22:29

a newspaper that she first of all, she

22:31

didn't think the state had enough evidence

22:33

to convict her client. But also she

22:35

said, before his arrest, the client had

22:37

been volunteering at his kids school and

22:39

at a puppy rescue. If you've met

22:41

him, he's all starbursts and sprinkles. He's

22:44

just the most delightful person I've met

22:46

in a long time. But that's like

22:48

her bowmeister. Remember her bowmeister was this

22:50

nice quiet man who donated to charity?

22:52

I mean, there are people who are

22:54

very capable of splitting their personalities and

22:56

being different people in front of different

22:58

people. Yeah, that's a psychopath. I mean,

23:01

here's the thing. Okay, so I saw one picture

23:03

of him and his ex-husband together at like some

23:05

kind of a parade or something with their twin

23:07

daughters really cute. I mean, he looks like just

23:09

like a clean cut, a handsome, you know, middle

23:11

aged white guy. There's nothing about him that you

23:13

think would be a cold blooded murder. But what

23:15

I can't get over about, there's a lot of

23:17

things that strike me about this

23:19

case. Generally speaking, somebody doesn't just become

23:21

a murderer like that. You know what I

23:23

mean? Like things lead up to you. Like

23:26

you took him home, you took him home

23:28

from a bar, right? We know why. Where

23:30

did the gun get involved? How did a

23:32

shotgun get pulled out? Why did the shotgun

23:34

get pulled in self-defense? What like what happened

23:36

at that time? Or was it something that

23:38

like is a part of a pattern of

23:41

behavior? Because it sounds like a very serial

23:43

killer thing to do to take somebody home from a

23:45

bar and then shoot them in cold blood as they're pleading

23:47

for their life. If that guy's pleading for

23:49

his life. It sounds like not a

23:51

first rodeo type of situation. It sounds

23:53

like somebody who definitely knows how to

23:55

do that has done that or might

23:57

have done it again. Yeah. So I'm

23:59

like. I would want to take a closer

24:01

look at other young gay men who might have

24:03

disappeared around that time in that region from bars

24:05

and not been seen because we know this has

24:07

been an epidemic for decades now, right, Ellen? Absolutely.

24:10

The other thing is I thought what was interesting is

24:12

about how the spouse went about this. The spouse knew

24:14

this for six years and didn't

24:16

say anything. So here's my question, Ellen.

24:18

Yeah. Would you? Your

24:21

husband, your partner says, I killed

24:23

somebody. Absolutely. You wouldn't wait until

24:25

six years for the divorce. You know that

24:27

saying, if he cheats with you, he'll cheat

24:29

on you. I

24:32

would like to implement that to murder. If

24:35

my husband was like, baby, I love you

24:37

so much. I love your boobies.

24:39

I love your cuddles. I love your cooking.

24:42

And then I would know he was a

24:44

liar. And he was like, I murdered someone.

24:46

My first thought would be for my safety

24:48

and the safety of my family because like

24:50

you said, it seems very calculated and planned

24:52

out. As we've learned so many times, it's

24:55

just her bowmeister is on my head because

24:57

it was last week's case. You never know

24:59

who you're sleeping next to. Can

25:02

a partner be charged for not

25:04

turning that information into the cops?

25:06

Isn't that withholding evidence or? No,

25:09

I don't think so. Remember, there's also

25:11

a spousal immunity when it comes to like,

25:13

you know, a spouse can't be forced to testify

25:15

against another spouse, against a spouse, right, in a

25:18

court of law. Spousal privilege is what

25:20

it's called. Right. But that's for testimony. That

25:22

is no information. You absolutely know the

25:25

information and you don't divulge it. You're

25:27

not withholding evidence when there's no when

25:29

there's no investigation, right? It's one thing

25:31

if the police came to him and

25:33

they lied to the police, maybe he could

25:35

be charged for lying to the police at that point, but nothing

25:37

was happening. Right. I mean, like

25:40

somebody tells you a deep dark secret unless somebody's poking around

25:42

and you've got some kind of official subpoena or you're in

25:44

court. Testimony is also basically this

25:46

is information I have. So even in the

25:48

course of an actual investigation or

25:50

being summoned to court, spousal privilege

25:52

means I can say I invoke my spousal privilege.

25:54

I'm not saying anything to incriminate my spouse. You can

25:57

do that. Would you do that? Oh,

25:59

I turn a minute. dick is that good. That bitch

26:01

is going to jail. Yeah. If you

26:03

marry me, you're going to jail. If I find

26:05

out you're a criminal element like that, a violent

26:07

criminal element, I'm sorry. All of

26:09

Rabia's new suitors hear of

26:11

them. You fuck up. It is

26:14

two seconds between the time you tell her she

26:16

hangs up and she calls 911. Yes. That's my

26:18

girl. I have told my two exes, you touch

26:20

my child, you're going to jail. I'm like, I'm

26:22

not. Yeah, sorry. I will and I will, I

26:24

will absolutely give up my spouse or privilege and

26:27

be like, I'm not invoking it. You know, it's

26:29

interesting. They're like, ma'am, you know, you have spouse

26:31

or privilege. You're like, yeah, I know. Fuck that.

26:33

I'm waving it. Let me tell you what happened.

26:36

Yeah. You can't be forced to like invoke it. What

26:38

was interesting was when I was in Costa Rica,

26:40

we actually, very exciting things we do on

26:42

our fellowships. We read the constitution of Costa

26:44

Rica. And one of the things in

26:47

the constitution is that you cannot compel

26:49

testimony from family members that are

26:51

like literally even like a generation

26:53

above you, a generation below you,

26:55

aunt, uncle's, cousins. So the spousal

26:57

privilege that we enjoy here actually

26:59

extends to like your entire extended

27:01

family in Costa Rica. And that's

27:04

crazy. I mean, I actually feel

27:06

like a parental, a parental situation

27:08

would run even deeper than 100%.

27:10

A hundred percent. That parental blood

27:13

is thick. And that love and

27:15

that devotion, I would actually

27:17

look towards the parents before

27:19

even the spouse because that's

27:21

not your blood. That's just some dude you

27:23

sleep next to and try and ignore the

27:26

fact that they have hairy man toes. Yeah,

27:28

definitely. Parents will kill and die for their

27:30

children. So yeah, it does make sense. Absolutely.

27:32

Um, I have a question. So real quickly,

27:34

just to rewind, you said that you guys

27:36

on your vacation read the Costa Rica notification

27:39

notification girl. I promised I

27:41

also did that only it was just

27:43

a little different and it was Jello

27:45

shots. So it's

27:47

sort of, you know, Jello shots on the

27:50

beach. Our lives are eerily parallel. It's

27:52

really parallel. Yes. We just think

27:54

and think of the same things.

27:56

We walk this life hand in

27:58

hand. Honestly, people can. even tell

28:00

us apart. We're gonna have to wear name tags.

28:06

Look at you! You all she can sing. You

28:08

had that solo in school. You know you did.

28:10

No, you know what solo I did have? I

28:12

just called to say I love you and that

28:14

last line almost killed me. You know what that

28:16

pitch is? I remember you told us that on

28:18

an episode you got the key change. You got

28:21

the short end of the stick because there's that

28:23

key change at the end and little Robby. All

28:25

right, so that's my story. Anyhow, I'm assuming it ties

28:27

into one of your updates. I don't know what your updates are gonna be but...

28:32

You know, Raviya, when I started podcasting,

28:35

I didn't know we would become kind

28:37

of our own little mini business as

28:39

well. What's your business? Oh,

28:41

us. Well, I mean like, you know, when we

28:44

sell merch and things like that, well, you

28:46

and I have merch coming out but over

28:48

it, I think not. We sell lots of

28:50

merch and I will tell you Shopify has

28:52

saved our dairiers more times than I care

28:54

to admit because Shopify is a global commerce

28:56

platform and it helps you in every stage

28:58

of your business. Well, you don't have to

29:01

tell me about Shopify because Shopify is exactly

29:03

where I am building a business I've told

29:05

you about. I'm gonna start selling my own

29:07

line of tea in about a year but

29:09

Shopify has got my back and it's got

29:11

the back of 10% of all e-commerce in

29:13

the US. That's crazy.

29:16

And here's the thing. Shopify

29:18

is really good at turning

29:20

browsers into buyers because they

29:22

have the internet's best converting

29:24

checkout up to 36% better

29:27

compared to other leading commerce platforms. What I

29:29

love about Shopify is that they work for

29:31

you no matter how big you want to

29:33

grow. They give you all the tools you

29:35

need to take control and take your business

29:37

to the next level. To sign up, pull

29:40

a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com

29:42

slash solve the case all in

29:44

lowercase. Go to shopify.com/solve the case

29:46

now to grow your business no

29:48

matter what stage you're in.

29:51

shopify.com/solve the case. Love

29:54

that sound. All

30:01

right, Rabia, I am turning the

30:03

clock back to when we first

30:05

started about damn crime. We covered

30:07

the case of Harley Russell. So

30:10

this past summer, July to be

30:13

an exact Alabama nursing student by

30:15

the name of Harley Russell, she

30:17

captured the nation's attention and she

30:20

sure as heck captured our attention

30:22

when she designed a whole elaborate

30:25

hoax to pretend to go missing.

30:27

Now Harley has admitted to faking

30:29

her kidnapping. She apologized in

30:32

court this past Thursday at her sentencing

30:34

hearing. She pled guilty for two misdemeanor

30:36

charges of making a false police report.

30:38

Remember she is the one just for

30:40

anyone who needs a refresher. She called

30:42

and reported that there was a toddler

30:45

on the interstate and then she said

30:47

she had disappeared and was taken by

30:49

a man and a woman who played

30:51

with her hair and fed her Cheez-Its.

30:53

It wasn't a very well thought out

30:56

lie but needless to say it sort

30:58

of really blew up on social media

31:00

and then as investigators started to look

31:02

into it they were like, yeah, there's

31:04

no child walking along the side of

31:06

the road and they slowly found out

31:08

when they searched her phone that she

31:11

had searched. Will Amber Alert's cost my

31:13

parents any money? She looked for

31:15

the movie taken anyway. She pled

31:17

guilty and here is the audio

31:19

of her apology and of

31:21

the judge's notes. community

32:00

and all of those who are directly

32:02

involved in such efforts to meet. I'll

32:05

also explain my sincere apologies to

32:07

those in the lead development and

32:09

every other law enforcement agency and

32:12

group that owns the position or asset

32:14

event and who has reported news. Absolutely,

32:18

we did my decision and how in

32:20

fact we're described as a health and

32:22

social distancing matter. My fear is that

32:25

I will be a truly great and

32:27

given the opportunity to receive the national

32:31

change in the state of the country. I

32:33

want to say that I'm proud to be

32:35

a part of 25 years of my life

32:37

and an independent church that is in sight.

32:41

I've never had a big Jewish community that

32:43

is very, very proud of me. I'm

32:45

very proud to be a part of my

32:48

community and I want to be a part

32:50

of the community and I want to thank

32:52

you for your support. Okay, I'll just say

32:54

a few things. When you first

32:56

made this report, you made you a heart. It

32:59

treated this community and learned a lot of the

33:01

country. It's the story of nation one, it's not.

33:05

And then when it came out in the

33:07

Washington Tulum, I really was just really enriched.

33:09

But everything was outraged. What

33:12

you did was you wasted a lot of government resources

33:14

and you're going to take that. Every

33:17

day, every dime of that in restitution

33:19

in this case. It

33:22

would be a waste of government resources to have

33:24

a job in this case. So you're going to

33:26

take the responsibility and we're not going to do

33:28

that. It would be a waste of government resources

33:30

to put you in jail. One

33:32

of the most expensive things that government

33:34

does is incarcerate people. And

33:36

we reserve our jails to people who

33:38

are purely a threat to the community.

33:42

And although we experience

33:44

that about what you've done, you're not a threat

33:46

to the community. I'm not going to treat you

33:48

any differently than I would treat any other

33:50

first time nonviolence this week in a offender.

33:53

Accordingly, the judgment of the citizens of this

33:56

court, that sure says in each of these

33:58

cases that this is an approval. We

34:00

can be all competitive with each

34:02

other and these things are suspended.

34:05

You're placed on probation for 12 months,

34:07

supervised probation. It's

34:11

a condition of your probation if you pay

34:13

a full amount of restitution, which is I'm

34:20

also sent to the community to serve as a condition of

34:22

your probation, 100 hours of community

34:24

service. I just

34:26

want to let you know what

34:28

the Alabama Attorney General's office said.

34:30

They are disappointed but not surprised

34:32

that she didn't get the requested

34:34

jail time. The Hoover Police Chief

34:36

Nick Dirts said, it's a slap

34:38

on the wrist, you pay money

34:41

and move on. It's

34:43

a little disappointing because it's such an

34:45

elaborate hoax. The sentencing was similar to

34:48

a guy who goes to Home Depot

34:50

and steals a chainsaw. Now, to this

34:52

day, Russell has never explained why she

34:55

lied or any of the real

34:57

circumstances as to her disappearance. Remember

34:59

we did say this on the episode,

35:02

following her fake kidnapping, they have put

35:04

into play legislation in Alabama to make

35:06

false reporting of a crime a felony

35:09

and it has moved forward in the

35:11

Alabama State House and they're supporting the

35:13

bill based on Russell's misdemeanor charges saying

35:15

that it didn't go far enough considering

35:18

the massive search efforts that it

35:20

prompted. I also want to say

35:22

that a lot of people online are

35:24

comparing this to Sherri Papini, I think

35:26

her name was, a woman who did

35:28

the same sort of thing in California.

35:30

She was actually sentenced to 18 months

35:33

in jail but I need to remind

35:35

everyone that her case included not only

35:37

all of the fraud and the lying

35:39

but she also lied to federal officers.

35:42

So it's a little different. Tell me

35:44

your thoughts, Rob. If I remember

35:46

correctly when we discussed this case, this is

35:48

exactly what I was hoping for. I

35:50

said from the beginning that I don't

35:52

believe she should serve any time, that

35:55

there should be restitution for the resources

35:57

spent and some community service. It's a

35:59

non-violent offense. She's clearly having some

36:01

kind of mental health issue. This was

36:04

a cry for help in a

36:06

terrible way. She was fairly young. I

36:08

know an adult is over 18, but

36:10

no, we're all still developing at

36:12

that age. She didn't necessarily hurt anybody.

36:14

And you know, and I'm never going

36:16

to be for more incarceration. I will

36:18

always stand for decarceration when possible. I

36:20

am so happy to hear every single

36:22

thing the judge said. And if I

36:24

wasn't fasting, I would tell the Alabama AG

36:26

to fuck right off because they would lock everybody up, especially

36:29

all the black people in Alabama if they could. But

36:31

I am fasting. So I won't say that. Yeah,

36:33

I think that judge was it was quite shocking

36:35

from Alabama. And you know what,

36:37

this is exactly a fantastic point that Shannon's making.

36:39

Am I reading that right? Shannon is making on

36:41

our group chat, which is that she owes 17,000

36:44

restitution, we lock her up,

36:46

we're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars

36:48

of taxpayer dollars locking her up. How stupid is

36:50

that? How does the community say it's great? Get

36:53

the money back and give it back to the

36:55

police department. I actually will say not from like

36:57

a mean standpoint, but from a propelling her life

36:59

forward, because the only thing that concerns me

37:02

and this doesn't have to do with

37:04

jail time, she has three semesters of

37:06

nursing school left. I do think she

37:08

has probably learned from this mistake in

37:10

a massive way. But I'm actually a

37:12

little concerned about her moral compass with

37:14

regards to lying because if there was

37:16

a medical emergency, so that

37:19

was sort of in the back of

37:21

my mind, I actually think that the

37:23

community service shouldn't be a nebulous thing

37:25

of unity service. I think she

37:27

should be going around to schools

37:29

or maybe around to rehabilitation centers or

37:32

maybe even juvenile hall or juvenile detention

37:34

centers talking about lying and fabricating and

37:36

where this can get and what she

37:39

has learned. I actually think 100 hours

37:41

isn't a lot of hours,

37:43

because I do agree. I do agree that

37:45

she should move this forward in a really

37:48

positive way. I am so glad you're not

37:50

a prosecutor. You are super tough, man. You

37:52

want to lock people up. No, but I

37:54

mean it in a very constructive way. I

37:56

would love for her to put together a

37:59

program, maybe even speech to her

38:01

about what happened, what she learned, her frame

38:03

of mind, mental health. I don't mean it

38:05

from a punishment way. I mean it from

38:08

a place of being a

38:10

teaching moment. I actually believe her and

38:12

I believe that this was a lie.

38:14

That fucking blew up bond. Anything that

38:16

she thought, she thought it would just

38:19

be her text chain. Where's Harley? I

38:21

believe in my heart. She absolutely did

38:23

not think it was gonna turn into

38:25

the runaway train that it did, but

38:28

it did. And now she's an example

38:30

and I actually think she's a very

38:32

sweet, lost, maybe a little bit not

38:34

well young woman. And I really don't

38:36

mean this from a punishment place. I

38:38

believe this from this can be a

38:40

huge teaching moment for her. Let me

38:43

go back to your comment on her

38:45

being a nurse or not being a nurse. I

38:47

don't know what the licensing requirements are for a nurse,

38:49

but I know for attorneys, even if you pass the

38:51

bar, you have to go through an ethics background check.

38:53

And if you have something like this, you might not

38:56

get your license even if you pass the bar. So

38:58

there might be something comparable in nursing where she

39:00

has to pass, you know, where ethically she

39:02

has to reach a certain bar or they

39:04

won't let her be licensed. I don't know. Maybe

39:06

some nurses can comment and tell us how that

39:09

works. But you know, here's the thing. Right now,

39:11

she's right out of the gate, right? Like this

39:13

is just happening right now. Right now, sending her

39:15

to schools or sending her around, it was just

39:17

gonna be a shame to her. It would just

39:19

be to like really shame her versus her getting

39:21

the time to get the therapy, to get the

39:23

help to process and to even understand what the

39:25

lessons are. Sometimes we go through things. We don't

39:27

know for years what those lessons are. I feel

39:29

like it's way too soon in her journey to

39:31

understand. Clearly, we know what she did was wrong.

39:33

She knows what she did was wrong. I don't

39:35

know how much value she would have right now

39:38

to offer other than being able to say when

39:40

you are not in a good place, teach young

39:42

people to get proper mental health, right? Like what

39:44

is the way to deal? I agree. Yeah, I don't

39:46

know if she's she has the education and has processed

39:48

it to the point where she could actually teach people

39:51

that yet. Yeah. And maybe over time, the book will

39:53

come. Maybe the book will come. Maybe something will come.

39:55

Yeah, I believe that because I think one of the

39:57

important things she said in that speech was wish

40:00

now I had gone through other channels

40:02

to get help and I wouldn't look

40:04

at it like a shame to her

40:07

like they're parading her. I actually think

40:09

saying like nebulous community service you know

40:11

cleaning garbage off the highway that doesn't

40:13

teach you anything but meeting and interacting

40:16

and giving her a chance to rise

40:18

above this social media name she has

40:20

made for herself because her name has

40:22

been dragged through the mud. I'm actually

40:25

speaking from an empathetic place that she

40:27

could basically turn this around in some

40:29

way curate some kind of program maybe not

40:31

even now maybe in six months you're right after

40:34

she gets the mental health not saying I'm a

40:36

board certified licensed therapist but I'm something of you

40:38

who did something really shitty and I didn't mean

40:40

to this is what happened

40:42

and this is how I'm getting better.

40:44

Yeah I don't know I just think

40:47

of it as a big teaching moment

40:49

and I think she can absolutely change

40:51

the narrative and turn it around and

40:53

we covered this woman on pink collar

40:55

crimes and I think her name started

40:57

with a J and she basically was

40:59

a huge scam artist she was

41:01

running this Ponzi scheme made millions went

41:03

to jail and now she is one

41:06

of the most charismatic meaningful public speakers

41:08

and she now she's just as rich

41:10

as she was before but she's doing

41:12

it all above board and she's like

41:14

don't do what I do she's making

41:16

a life of saying I know this

41:18

easy money seems easy right now or

41:20

this life seems easy or this weird

41:22

attention seems really exciting but it's not

41:24

yeah I don't know I think it

41:26

could be a really big thing for

41:29

her it could if that's her personality

41:31

not everybody is that person though some people are like

41:33

I just want to put this behind me I want to

41:35

buy it Lee live out the rest of my life in

41:37

anonymity I never want my name to be on social media

41:39

again and I think that's a valid response to I

41:41

think her sentence was fair I really appreciate

41:43

the judges remarks about her not being

41:46

a threat to society and recognizing that

41:48

and giving the prosecutor the

41:50

middle finger yeah that prosecutor was shut

41:52

the fuck up even if it's a

41:54

weekend just do anything give

41:58

us something judge now anyway Anyway, yeah.

42:01

All right. So my second story

42:03

is a really, really sad, terrifying story.

42:05

And again, I just never heard of it. The

42:08

crime at the center of it took place in

42:10

2021, September 10. So

42:12

it's been a few years, a couple of

42:14

years. But what's happening right now, preliminary hearing

42:17

is taking place in San Jose, where three

42:19

members of a family have been charged with

42:21

felony child abuse resulting in death. And

42:24

the victim was a three-year-old, a

42:26

really Naomi Proctor. Her accused killers

42:28

are her mother, her maternal uncle,

42:31

and her grandfather. And here's

42:33

what happened. September 24, 2001,

42:35

the grandfather was pastor of a

42:38

Pentecostal church, okay? And her

42:40

mother decided, her mother woke her brother

42:42

up, who's a 20-year-old younger brother, and

42:44

said, we're taking her to the church because

42:46

she's possessed by demons. They spent the next

42:48

12 hours exercising

42:51

her. And I'm putting that in bunny

42:53

ears. They tortured her all night

42:55

in a weird, crazy religious exorcism.

42:57

She was strangled. She was suffocated.

42:59

She was smothered. They put their

43:02

fingers down her throat. They tried

43:04

to cause her to vomit up

43:06

the evil spirit. She was covered

43:09

in bruises. The descriptions are horrific,

43:11

so I'm not going to get into it. But

43:13

for 12 hours, they tormented her. Why?

43:16

Why did the mother think? You don't mean

43:18

tormented. You mean tortured. I

43:20

mean, and tortured. I mean, like, when

43:22

you're tortured, you're being tormented. But the mother said

43:24

that the little girl would wake up in the

43:26

middle of the night and cry. She had night

43:29

terrors. A lot of kids do that. I mean,

43:31

a lot of kids. My son has night terrors

43:33

all the time. If I move from his side,

43:35

he will jump out of bed screaming and hollering,

43:37

Mama, where you at? I mean,

43:40

like, you know, a lot of kids suffer from

43:42

night terrors. And so this woman, who I certainly

43:44

think has mental health issues, but also comes from

43:46

a religious community in which they really do believe

43:48

that, like, tiny little children can possess by the

43:50

devil and there is their job to get the

43:52

devil out through physical means after she

43:54

finally stopped responding and moving. She

43:56

lost consciousness. She had injuries all

43:58

over her face. They just left

44:01

her there for a couple of hours and because they

44:03

were praying for her for two hours and then they

44:05

called 911. So when she

44:07

was finally found, she already

44:09

had passed away, of course, she had been

44:11

killed by these people and the police took

44:13

all three of them in and questioned them.

44:15

The three of them took naps at the

44:18

police station. The mother was interviewed and during

44:20

the interview she said that she thought her

44:22

daughter was possessed and so they were just

44:24

trying to help her and that she was

44:26

in a better place, she was with God

44:28

now. And ultimately she was free of the

44:30

demon and literally in the days before she was

44:32

finally arrested she uploaded multiple YouTube videos of herself

44:34

talking about her daughter's death and she said, quote,

44:37

God took her. It's many reasons why God took

44:39

her. At least she's not suffering. That's what I'm

44:41

thankful for. That she's not going to grow up

44:43

in a world we live in. She's in a

44:45

better place. God knows why he allowed

44:47

these things. She said she herself had grew and

44:49

matured and learned a lot. She's like, I'm really

44:52

thankful for where I'm at and through this experience

44:54

I have learned that God is good. So the

44:56

three of them have not actually been charged with

44:58

murder. They've been charged with felony child

45:00

abuse resulting in death. The preliminary hearing

45:03

begins I think this week and I

45:05

think the trial for all three of

45:07

them is going to and they're represented

45:10

individually by three different defense counsels.

45:12

I'm sorry, you're saying trial like

45:14

they're pleading not guilty? So

45:16

far they might change. I mean they might come to

45:18

a plea but I also don't know if they've been

45:20

offered the chance to well a plea deal is

45:22

different than pleading guilty or not guilty but right

45:24

now they have all pled not guilty. They're going

45:26

to they're preparing for trial. So the brother says that

45:29

he had no idea what was going to happen that his

45:31

sister woke him up. He did not

45:33

ever hurt his niece before. He had no intention or hurt

45:35

her but he did participate for those 12 hours. He

45:38

did not leave. He did not call the police. He

45:40

did not call 911. He was there anyhow. This is

45:42

just an awful case and I had never heard of this and this happened

45:44

a couple of years ago and beautiful. Are you

45:46

going to say I'm too tough on crime when

45:48

I say lock them up in Alcatraz even though

45:51

it's not even a running prison anymore? Well

45:53

put them on block D where the wind

45:55

really swoops on in there. Yeah that might

45:57

be too good for them. It's

46:00

the Lori Valo of it all, of them

46:02

being like, they're with God now. Fuck

46:05

off. They shouldn't be with God.

46:07

They should be here in preschool, learning their

46:09

fucking ABCs and fucking singing to the Wiggles.

46:11

I don't know. Do kids watch the Wiggles

46:14

anymore? I have no idea. But she doesn't

46:16

need to be with God. She needs to

46:18

be here, living a life of safety that

46:21

you're supposed to provide for them, you fucking

46:23

psychopath. So, you know, her

46:25

own grandfather was the pastor performing the exorcism

46:27

here. The brother seems to have some remorse and

46:29

like the statements coming through his lawyers seem to reflect

46:31

that he's like, oh my God, none of this should

46:33

have happened. And I didn't know it was gonna happen.

46:35

But the mother is just chill and cool as a

46:38

cucumber. And it's like, I mean, and I don't

46:40

know about the grandfather, but clearly he was the

46:42

one leading the circus here. And thinking about that

46:44

child, 12 hours is such a long time, Ellen.

46:47

12 hours. All night. Imagine even depriving

46:49

a child of sleep for 12 hours during the night,

46:51

what kind of torture that is. Her

46:53

own mother, uncle and grandfather doing this

46:56

to her. Imagine I just

46:58

cannot. And what they put her through before

47:00

they finally killed her. I don't know why they

47:02

are not being charged with murder because I wish they were. Sometimes

47:06

I'm like, you know, everyone deserves a

47:08

fair trial. Right. That's it. And

47:11

I'm like, I literally would put you in Alcatraz and I'd

47:13

be like, that's not a running jail. I'm

47:15

like, yeah, well, I don't know what the play is

47:17

from defense thinking they're gonna go to trial with

47:19

us. I mean, especially if it was

47:21

okay. Here's the thing. If they were charged

47:23

with murder, maybe I want to I might

47:26

think, okay, I'm going to defend this person

47:28

because they did not intend to murder her.

47:30

They really did. This is part of their religious

47:32

belief. They really believe they're getting a demon on her.

47:34

They didn't intend to kill her. And if there's

47:36

no intent, then it can't be a charge of

47:39

murder. But this is felony child abuse that resulted

47:41

in death. I'm like, that's exactly what happened. That's

47:43

literally exactly what happened. How do you defend against

47:45

these charges? I don't understand. How is this not

47:47

child abuse? How is any part of this? I

47:50

can't even imagine what her autopsy pictures look like.

47:52

I can't even imagine. But the reading the descriptions

47:54

of her injuries is horrific. I don't know. Maybe

47:57

maybe they'll finally fold and at some point be

47:59

like, nevermind. We're all guilty, pleading guilty.

48:01

And you know, really, really crappy

48:03

case. Awful. Alright, well this is

48:05

a day of updates for me.

48:07

So my last case before we

48:09

tell you all something good. In

48:11

the case of Ruby Frankie, it

48:13

seems like things were actually even

48:16

worse than we initially believed, if

48:18

you can believe that. Authorities released

48:20

a ton of new information on

48:22

Friday. The records released included

48:24

written reports, audio recording,

48:27

video files, images, shooting

48:30

cameras, interrogation videos, interview videos.

48:32

The documents also included Frankie's

48:34

diary which detail why the

48:37

prosecutors believe it was religious

48:39

extremism which motivated her and

48:41

her business partner Jody Hildebrandt

48:44

to inflict this awful horrible

48:46

torture on Frankie's children. So

48:49

a couple of videos of

48:51

note that were released by

48:53

the attorney's office show

48:55

Frankie's 12 year old son

48:58

who had, as

49:00

we learned, climbed out of the

49:02

window of Hildebrandt's home on August

49:04

30th, 2023. In the video we

49:06

see him knocking on a neighbor's

49:08

door requesting food and water. This

49:10

little boy looked malnourished. He was

49:12

wounded. He was badly bruised.

49:14

He was politely asking that this man

49:16

take him to the police station. He

49:18

asked for a favor. I have a

49:21

favor to ask. Will you take me

49:23

to the police station? He is

49:25

shoeless. He's only wearing torn

49:27

socks and this is so

49:29

awful. His ankles were wrapped

49:31

in this duct tape and

49:33

his skin was abrazed and

49:35

bloody. It's just awful. All

49:37

in all 29 videos

49:40

were released and it was a

49:42

combination of home surveillance and police

49:44

body cam footage and it shows

49:47

all of that. More information that

49:49

we learned is of Jody Hildebrandt.

49:51

Her interview was insane. If you

49:54

know all the pieces, I think you have a

49:56

lot of information for what's

49:58

going on. The information that

50:01

we also didn't know was finding

50:03

Ruby's daughter who they call EF

50:05

in all of the reports. First

50:08

and foremost, they thought she was

50:10

a little boy because her hair

50:12

was buzzed off. We would later

50:15

find out from her journal that

50:17

Frankie describes shaving her daughter's head

50:19

for whining and writes in her

50:22

journal, if she's going to act

50:24

sick, she's going to look sick.

50:26

So they find this little girl,

50:29

she's sitting cross-legged in this

50:31

sort of bunker, maybe it's

50:33

a closet. I've got to

50:35

tell you, these officers were

50:37

so loving and gentle with

50:39

her. They try several

50:42

times to speak to her, she

50:44

doesn't say a word and they

50:46

say it's okay and they sit

50:49

with her, they get very low.

50:51

Finally, a female firefighter says, and

51:19

we won't do anything to hurt you. Seeing

51:50

the state of this little girl

51:52

and this little boy, we learned

51:54

all of these things about what

51:56

Frankie did, but actually seeing the

51:58

video evidence. somehow just

52:00

made it closer to home and I

52:03

gotta tell you the releasing of her

52:05

journal it is so sick.

52:07

She made the kids sleep on

52:09

hardwood floors, would lock them in

52:12

a concrete bunker that Jodi Hildebrandt

52:14

built in her basement. She in-

52:16

I don't- okay wait a minute-

52:18

and she actually documented all this

52:20

herself in her own journal? You

52:22

know Mormonism is based on a

52:25

lot of journaling. She insists repeatedly

52:27

in her journal that her son

52:29

is possessed by the devil. In

52:31

fact in July 2023 her entry

52:33

is entitled Big Day for Evil

52:35

and that's when she describes holding

52:37

his head under the water and

52:39

closing off his mouth and nose

52:41

with her hands. She tells him

52:44

that the devil will lie and

52:46

say that she's hurting him but

52:48

she's actually Rabia trying to save

52:50

him. I mean she says it

52:52

all in her journal and all

52:54

of that being released is it

52:56

is telling but it's quite literally

52:58

shocking not only that she did

53:00

it but then that she put pen

53:02

to paper and talked about it and

53:05

defended her actions and that is what

53:07

is so twisted about this thing because

53:09

I actually at first thought that her

53:12

statement to the court felt very accountable-

53:14

no she still stands by what she

53:16

did. Wow. As if she wasn't bad

53:19

enough it is just all ten times

53:21

worse seeing what she did to those

53:23

babies. Here's the thing I do believe

53:25

in the power of therapy. I do

53:28

believe in making yourself

53:30

better but those children will never

53:32

be okay with what was

53:36

inflicted on them by the

53:38

woman who is supposed to protect them

53:40

and then this woman who for two

53:42

million watching eyes went to her for

53:45

parenting advice. It's so sick

53:47

but everything was released and I'm

53:49

so glad they did. Obviously they

53:51

redacted the children's names and their

53:53

faces obviously to protect their privacy

53:55

but you can still see their

53:57

bodies they're emaciated. Oh my god.

53:59

It's very- very sad and I just got

54:01

to say she's exactly where she belongs. I hope

54:03

she never lays eyes on those kids again. I

54:05

hope she doesn't even get to speak their names

54:08

quite frankly. That is

54:10

the update. It is actually worse than we

54:12

thought sadly and with every bit of strength

54:14

and love that I have in my heart,

54:16

I wish the best for those kids. It's

54:19

going to be a long road to healing.

54:21

And you know what? I hope she never

54:23

gets out of jail. I'm like, I'm okay

54:25

with that. Yeah, I'm okay with that. Again,

54:27

the religious, the Lori Valo, all just disgusting.

54:30

The hurting babies, the why

54:32

all is the children? Why the devil always in these

54:34

innocent children? Explain that to me. You don't see the

54:36

devil like in like the politicians around you. The devil

54:38

might be another people, but the little babies in front

54:40

of you, these people, man. Okay, I do have a

54:42

tell me something good for us this week. Are you

54:44

do you have any more updates or you have a

54:46

tell me something good? Casey hit the music.

54:48

Before that, before that,

54:51

tell me something good. What is it? Rabia? Charlotte

54:53

is still pregnant. It has not given birth. You

54:56

know what? You're making this up. This is fake news.

54:58

No, listen, fake news at this. Here's the thing on

55:00

February 11, the team taking care

55:02

of her said that she was doing about a week's

55:04

time. So her delivery date was estimated to be February 21.

55:07

Charlotte, it is March like 25. Now, this

55:09

is some Beyonce bullshit. She's not pregnant.

55:11

She's got a pillow in her stingray

55:13

belly. I don't believe a lick of

55:15

it. Oh, I don't know. She this

55:17

is I don't know if it is

55:20

the team at the aquarium that is

55:22

trolling us or Charlotte's like, I'm kind

55:24

of loving the attention. I'm kind of

55:26

loving all the extra care. Look, she is

55:28

a superstar now. She is pull it Reagan in, you

55:30

know, who knows how much for this place. So she's

55:32

like being pampered. She's like, I'm holding on to these

55:34

babies as long as I can. But Charlotte is still

55:36

pregnant. Okay, now my tummy. And I

55:38

know I've come to

55:42

you before with a tummy, something good. And you've been like, where's

55:45

the prime in that? It could just

55:47

be a little bit of good news.

55:49

I'm fine with that. Just spreading some

55:51

good news, a little little tiny rainbow

55:54

lit in the darkness of true crime.

55:56

Well, what this is is a little

55:58

silver lining around a

56:01

centuries old parable cloud

56:03

that is actually, I would say,

56:05

genocide. And I'm talking about the

56:08

eradication of the tribal lands from

56:10

First Nations and, you know,

56:13

the basically ethnic cleansing

56:15

of the first people of this

56:17

continent. But what happened just this

56:20

last week was that the very

56:22

historic agreement was reached between a first

56:24

tribal nation called the Yura and the

56:26

National Park Service for the first time

56:29

ever. The Yurok will be the very

56:31

first tribal nation to co-manage land,

56:33

land that was their own

56:35

ancestral land, okay, with the

56:37

National Park Service under this

56:39

historic memorandum that was just signed, I

56:41

think, this past week. So there's an organization called

56:44

Save the Redwoods and this is out in

56:46

California. They brought property that had, you know,

56:48

redwoods basically on it and they began working with the

56:50

tribe back in 2013 and they planted

56:52

50,000 native plants in the

56:54

process. So the Yurok, their tribe has

56:57

been working hand-in-hand with this organization to

56:59

revitalize the land, to preserve the land

57:01

without having any actual right over the

57:03

land, their own ancestral land. And, you

57:06

know, the Redwoods National and State Parks,

57:08

they get over a million visitors every

57:10

year. Their UNESCO cultural heritage site, they

57:13

make hundreds of millions probably for the

57:15

state. The property has

57:17

now been renamed Oru, which is

57:19

R-E-W, which is a Yurok word

57:21

that was used for the region.

57:24

And the Yurok are now restoring

57:26

much of the area with, basically

57:29

with reminders that they were there first.

57:31

They have not just gone to some

57:33

of the bodies of water, they have restored

57:35

it with historically present animals and species

57:37

like red-legged frogs, Northwest and salamanders, waterfowl,

57:40

all these are the species. They're going

57:42

to be building a traditional village site

57:44

to showcase their culture. It's going to

57:46

include redwood plank huts, a sweat house,

57:48

a museum to contain some of the tribal

57:50

artifacts that they've recovered from museum collections that,

57:52

you know, were basically not theirs anymore, you

57:54

know, stuff that was stolen for them and

57:57

they've recovered. And, you know, they believe that

57:59

the Redwoods are... sacred. So they only use

58:01

fallen trees to build their lodges and

58:03

they were the original stewards of that land. So they

58:05

get to find the home manage what used to be

58:07

theirs after, I mean I just can't believe it took

58:10

to 2024 for us to get here

58:12

but this is something that should be done

58:14

all across the nation basically. I actually saw

58:16

that article. It's really really exciting and what

58:19

should be done? I mean it shouldn't be

58:21

exciting because it's the right thing to do.

58:23

It is but it is good

58:25

news and it makes me really happy. I hope that

58:27

this is a model that's replicated throughout the

58:29

country so that we can start acknowledging the

58:31

rightful owners of this land that we're on

58:33

and honor them. Right, I agree. I'm

58:36

just gonna throw one last time at something good. It's

58:42

Women's History Month and on Women's

58:44

History Day it was Barbie's 65th

58:46

birthday on March 9th and they

58:49

rolled out the role models collection.

58:51

Now they're one-of-a-kind dolls and they're

58:53

made to honor specific women and

58:55

they're meant to introduce girls to

58:57

remarkable women to show them that

59:00

you can be anything. I'm already

59:02

getting choked up and according to

59:04

Mattel they chose a handful of

59:06

women for this year including Viola

59:09

Davis, Shania Twain, Helen

59:11

Mirren as well as tennis

59:13

star Naomi Osaka, singer Selena Cruz,

59:16

skateboarder Sky Brown, producer Shonda Rhimes.

59:18

It's really cool. My only wish

59:20

is that they would sell them

59:22

maybe for a limited time but

59:24

they're all one of a kind.

59:26

They're gorgeous. They're in these intricate

59:29

chic outfits and they give like

59:31

a cool explanation of who they

59:33

are and what they've done to

59:35

empower women, to help women, to

59:37

support women. It's very beautiful but

59:39

Mattel, you cowards, release the collection.

59:42

We all want one. Maybe the reason they

59:44

don't want to is so they don't look like a

59:46

profiting off of this and it's just a PR thing. But

59:48

they could donate the money to a great

59:50

women's organization or they could donate the proceeds

59:53

and split it to whatever those women

59:55

choose. I think it's beautiful. I think

59:58

it's a beautiful celebration of women. I'm

1:00:00

glad we got more than a day and we

1:00:02

got a month finally, but thank you Mattel if

1:00:04

you release them I'll definitely at least buy the

1:00:06

Shania Twain and Biola Davis one for sure. Listen,

1:00:08

I have a confession I still haven't bought a

1:00:10

movie. I haven't seen the movie yet. But your

1:00:13

face. I know I haven't had time to see

1:00:15

the movie Robbie. What's that show you've watched like

1:00:17

three times? Oh That

1:00:19

Australia. Oh, no what it was called dead dead

1:00:21

wood. Oh dead wood. God, it's so good. I

1:00:23

gotta watch it again How

1:00:25

about you watch the Barbie movie instead? Good luck.

1:00:28

Good luck. It's dead luck. That's what

1:00:30

it is. Thank you everyone for joining us

1:00:32

for this week's episode of about damn crime

1:00:34

Please go to our social media and find

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