0:07

Hello again . Glad you're back with us here on Raising

0:09

a Champion . It's the podcast that covers every

0:11

angle of youth sports and how to make

0:14

it a little bit better for everyone , Wherever

0:16

you listen , however you listen , you can catch

0:18

us on Spotify , Apple Podcast

0:20

, Amazon Music and Google . By

0:23

subscribing to us , you'll be alerted every

0:25

time We have a new episode that is posted

0:28

and in doing so , please

0:30

, if you can leave us a review , It'll go a long

0:32

way in helping us move up the charts

0:34

. All right , let's get right to it . I am thrilled

0:37

to have today's guest in studio

0:39

. He's been involved in youth sports for

0:42

nearly 50 years . In some aspect

0:44

, Not only does he run and manage

0:46

his own karate studio , but he

0:48

has served as the Deftford Little

0:50

League president since the 1980s

0:54

. Most recently , he has made national headlines

0:56

appearing on CNN , Fox

0:59

News , you name it

1:01

. His face has been out there . He

1:04

is reforming the way that parental

1:06

behavior should be at

1:09

Little League Baseball Games . Don

1:11

Bazzucci , welcome to raising a champion . How

1:13

are you , Don ?

1:14

Thank you , i'm fine . Good Thank

1:16

you for having me .

1:17

Yes , Little

1:19

League president , this is something that I think you said that you've been doing

1:21

since what ? 1985 ?

1:23

Well , I've been involved since 1985

1:26

with the Deftford Little League . I've been the president

1:29

there since 2010 .

1:30

Okay .

1:31

But I've been in other capacities

1:34

on the board for years .

1:35

Have you had kids that played Little League Baseball

1:37

?

1:37

I have . They went right up through the ranks

1:39

and I coached them all .

1:41

But you decided that you wanted to be involved

1:44

and continue

1:46

to be in the Little League arena

1:48

. I'm a lifer , Are you ? Yeah , Because

1:52

you just what you like the development You like to see

1:54

at the grassroots level

1:56

I do .

1:57

I enjoy watching the kids and watching them

2:00

develop and watching them enjoy

2:02

themselves and just having fun doing

2:04

what they love to do .

2:07

As I said off the top , you've been part

2:09

of the Little League Association for decades

2:11

. How

2:13

has it changed throughout

2:16

that time , from the time that your

2:18

kids , you know we're

2:20

eight , nine , 10 , 11 years old

2:22

, to where we are now ?

2:24

Okay , it's

2:26

changed dramatically

2:28

in some aspects and other aspects it hasn't

2:31

. The

2:35

majority of the people that come to these

2:37

games are awesome . It's

2:40

like anything else in life . It's always a small

2:42

fraction of the people , and

2:44

I'd say two to five percent , and

2:48

back in the 80s they were

2:50

loud and they were obnoxious , but

2:53

now they're bordering getting violent

2:56

and really nasty

2:58

and verbally abusive and

3:00

profane , and

3:03

it's upsetting because

3:05

those people seem

3:07

like they think they're entitled

3:09

. I don't know why . We're

3:12

a volunteer organization , little League's volunteer

3:14

. All these people that are out there

3:17

are doing this for free , for

3:19

their friends , for their children

3:22

. They're giving up time

3:24

that they could be spending at home with their

3:26

families and they're getting abused . And

3:28

I just had it , and so

3:30

we had to come up with something .

3:32

All right , so you started in 2010

3:34

. It had

3:36

been 12 , 13 years , and so you've

3:38

seen the abuse

3:41

and you've seen just the

3:43

belligerence really

3:45

escalate to a point to where

3:47

it's yeah , and

3:50

we'll get into the fact that Little

3:53

League and a lot of sports are really

3:55

suffering because people don't want

3:57

to have to endure this type of

3:59

abuse from parents Exactly , especially

4:01

if they're not earning anything And

4:05

what they do it could be at some level

4:08

20 or $30 or $50 a game . But

4:10

so talk about , before we kind

4:13

of get into the levels and what you've

4:15

seen from parents over the years , what

4:17

you finally decided to do to

4:20

sort of combat the

4:23

behavior that you see from parents and

4:25

spectators that go to these Little League games

4:27

.

4:28

Okay . So over the years we've tried different

4:31

things . Okay , little League

4:33

International has guidelines that managers

4:37

and coaches and fans

4:39

that are unruly they can get suspended

4:42

for that game and the next . So we do that

4:44

. We'd wind up telling them you have

4:46

to leave or we'll have you removed for this

4:48

game and the next . But it's temporary

4:50

fix .

4:51

They come back next week and sometimes

4:53

it doesn't curb their behavior , it does nothing .

4:55

Sometimes they're mad when they come back . Yeah

4:58

, they're even more insistent Yeah , they're backward

5:00

events . Okay , all right .

5:03

So you found out that didn't really work all that

5:06

.

5:06

Well , okay . So

5:08

my umpire and chief came to me

5:10

and said we just lost one of

5:12

our dedicated on-line umpires uh

5:15

, two unruly fans . He said he didn't

5:18

sign on for this . So I sent out

5:20

a letter to all the parents , a

5:22

mass email , telling them to just , you know , calm

5:24

down , you know these are volunteers

5:27

, We can't chase them away . And you know , just

5:29

just go out there and enjoy your children and give

5:31

them some positive reinforcement and everything

5:33

will be fine . The very next day calls me

5:35

again . He says we lost another one . He

5:37

says you got to be kidding me . He goes no , they were really nasty

5:39

with him . He just walked right off the field

5:42

, said I can't take this , didn't even finish

5:44

the game , didn't finish the game . So , um

5:46

, luckily we had two other umpires on

5:48

the field that night , so

5:51

I I was a little bit more , uh

5:54

, i was really upset .

5:55

So so it was a lot You had lost . You had

5:57

now lost two umpires , And how many

6:00

do you typically need to

6:02

successfully navigate a season ?

6:04

We need a lot more than we've got We had . We

6:06

have , right now , five

6:08

to now . Now , you have

6:10

to remember , we have 25 teams , so

6:13

in our league with five umpires . So it

6:15

takes some , it takes some shuffling

6:17

around and sometimes we only have

6:19

one . I've , i've had to me myself

6:22

and the , the vice president

6:24

, had to do many games this year because and I

6:26

don't like , i like , i like to monitor the fields

6:28

, i like to walk around and make sure everything's okay . I

6:30

couldn't do that . I had to umpire . Same

6:32

thing with the vice president . So I

6:35

said that's enough . So I sent out an

6:37

email and I said now

6:40

we've lost another dedicated volunteer

6:42

For fan abuse . And I'm going

6:45

to tell you what we're going to do now . The

6:47

next time someone abuses

6:49

, humiliates or otherwise

6:51

is disrespectful to one of our umpires

6:53

, you're going to be barred from our field

6:55

. Unless you decide

6:58

, and you're and you're , you're going to go

7:00

by what we want , and that is , you're

7:02

going to umpire three games to

7:04

completion And when

7:07

you , when you're done , then we'll let you

7:09

back on the fields . This

7:11

way I I'm figuring okay , there

7:14

, nobody's going to want to do this . So

7:16

let's put them on

7:18

the spot and let them go

7:20

out there and see what it's like . That it's not

7:23

. It's not all . All a better

7:25

rose is after Yeah , It's not , it's

7:27

.

7:27

It's always easier on the other side of the chain

7:29

.

7:29

Absolutely , absolutely .

7:31

So your season started in April . Yes

7:33

, sir , okay , early

7:36

April .

7:37

April 1st .

7:37

Okay . Season started

7:40

in April 1st . How long into the season before you had

7:42

to implement this new rule ?

7:44

Okay , so those phone calls were actually within

7:46

the first two weeks , so

7:48

it was , it was pretty early . So

7:51

, uh , you know , so we've , we've

7:53

, and I said effective

7:56

immediately . So I don't want to hear it from

7:58

anybody And , um , it's

8:00

been remarkably good

8:03

. I mean to the

8:05

point of some people were coming up to me

8:07

and saying everybody's scared to say anything . And

8:10

you know what ? I don't want people to be

8:12

scared to say something . I want them to

8:14

enjoy the game and cheer on the children

8:16

. But if that's what it takes , okay , then be scared

8:18

, let the kids play .

8:19

Well , look , i mean , this is not like

8:21

we're walking a very thin line

8:23

here , right , i

8:25

mean we can sit there and say let's go , johnny , all

8:28

right , you know , let's get a hit Ducks on the

8:30

pond , sort of thing

8:32

And then , as opposed to what

8:34

the hell was that ? I mean I think we , i

8:36

think we know it's a pretty

8:38

definitive line here . I don't understand

8:41

why you could be afraid to say anything .

8:43

And you know , i wouldn't even mind what the hell

8:45

was that . I wouldn't even mind , right .

8:47

You know .

8:48

I mean , they get vulgar , and

8:50

this is in front of seven , eight

8:52

, nine-year-old kids . It's like , really

8:54

. It's like I know

8:56

, when these parents are at home , they

8:59

demand respect I , and rightly

9:01

so , okay . And then they come here

9:03

And what are they showing their children ? Just

9:06

the opposite . And what do the kids

9:08

get out of it ? It's learned behavior , okay , so

9:10

I know . So all I got to do now

9:12

, if I don't like to call , start yelling

9:15

at the umpire and screaming and saying bad words

9:17

like that he did , and he's not going to do it

9:19

again . He's going to make sure he watches what he

9:21

calls , and that's , that's what goes through my mind

9:23

Is this is this what they're picking up ?

9:25

You know , so have you seen that bleed

9:27

down to the kids over the years

9:29

. Oh , absolutely , they think that they can kind

9:32

of jog because when

9:34

I played nobody

9:36

talked to the umpire , like that was off

9:38

limits . You do that , your coach

9:40

is going to sit you and you don't see the game . Yeah

9:42

, you're done .

9:44

Yeah , well , it's a , it's a . It's a whole

9:46

different ball game out there

9:48

now . Okay , and with

9:50

the , the , the landscape of

9:52

our culture right now , it's

9:55

a violent one . Watch

9:57

the news And that concerns

9:59

me . I don't know people's intentions

10:01

, especially when they start getting irate

10:04

and they , you know it starts escalating

10:06

. We've had

10:08

people go

10:11

out and onto the field

10:13

and we had to go out there and remove

10:15

them and have the police . We don't know their intentions . Why are

10:17

they going out on the field ? You know it's like they're

10:19

not supposed to be out there And

10:21

it just , it's just very concerning

10:24

And I said , you know , i got to do something

10:26

before this escalates

10:28

out of control . So , and

10:31

that's that's what we came up with

10:33

. And you know what , if that doesn't work

10:35

, we're going to figure something out .

10:37

Okay , so mid-April you put this , you

10:39

put this new rule into place . Here

10:41

we are , two months later . Have

10:43

have parents had to go out ? Have you

10:46

had an instance where a parent has broken the rule

10:48

and now they have to go out there and not

10:51

yet Really Not yet . So it's actually

10:53

so . It has completely changed their

10:55

behavior .

10:56

It has , and it's it's become a deterrent

10:58

, and that's what I was hoping it would be . You know , just

11:00

listen , it's simple

11:02

. Just come and enjoy the game , but

11:04

let other people enjoy it also . Watch

11:07

your children , you know , and , and you

11:09

know , make some memories , and not bad

11:11

ones . And , and you know , when

11:14

you're out there screaming , you might be okay for

11:16

your little boy or girl to

11:18

to hear what you're

11:20

saying . But how about the other children out there

11:22

that aren't used to hearing those words

11:25

at home , and and and and

11:27

teaching them the wrong way to have

11:29

and disrespect It's

11:31

? it's just not acceptable

11:33

.

11:34

Yeah , why

11:36

do you think that is Like take

11:38

, take us back , you know , from 80s

11:41

, 90s to where we are now . That's when

11:43

I I learned to play little league . You

11:45

know 19 , probably 81

11:47

, 82 , 83 . And

11:51

there's not one

11:54

instance that sticks out in my mind where

11:57

and maybe there was , maybe maybe

11:59

there was some

12:01

parents , that kind of , but I don't remember that

12:03

being to where , as

12:06

a player , i would go to a game of

12:08

one of my baseball games and think , oh geez , which

12:10

parent is going to get out of control

12:13

and have to be tossed out tonight ? I

12:15

don't , i don't recall that . So how , why

12:17

do you think it is over the years that

12:19

is . It is that the

12:23

complete disrespect towards authority

12:25

and just feeling that they can

12:27

, they have no filter and

12:30

and just behave the way that they do

12:32

in such a belligerent way . It is , it

12:34

is , it is taken off the way it has .

12:36

Well , i think that people just think that they're

12:38

entitled . You know , we , we

12:41

, we charge barely anything and we have

12:43

a we , we have a program where , if you

12:45

sell raffle tickets , you could recoup all

12:47

your money . So I don't , i don't get it , if

12:49

that's what it is , but I've come up with the theory

12:51

that it's ignorance of

12:53

the rules . Number one . Number

12:55

two feeling that your child's been slated . And

12:58

you have to remember these

13:01

people that that do

13:04

escalate to

13:06

abuse . Their

13:08

child hits the ball , ground , ball . He's

13:10

not even halfway to first . In

13:12

their eyes , he's safe , already , already

13:15

safe . So when it , when

13:17

the call is , is different than what they

13:19

are expecting , they just lose it . And

13:22

and people

13:24

come to me and you know you've got to go

13:26

over there , so and so , acting like a loon in

13:28

the stands , screaming and cursing and like

13:30

, oh man , it's , it's

13:33

as I say , most of the people are wonderful

13:35

, but it's that , it's that small

13:37

percentage that ruined it for everybody

13:39

and and everything in life .

13:42

But you , you , you work with

13:44

kids , you not only in your karate studio to be seen

13:46

, but don't you think these kids look at this and

13:48

and they're embarrassed by their parents

13:50

? I mean , or or do

13:52

do they look at that and say , yeah

13:55

, that's the way it's supposed to be ? Because I would think that

13:57

that's the one thing that I wouldn't

13:59

want my kids to say it there

14:01

and say , oh my gosh , i'm . They won't say

14:03

it to you , but you , you know that they're

14:06

going to feel embarrassed .

14:07

Oh , absolutely . The

14:09

one good thing is it's usually the

14:12

kids that are close to the stands , the first

14:14

based pitch or the catcher . Everybody else

14:16

that's out a little bit more really

14:18

doesn't know what's going on . They just hear the cheering

14:20

and you know the screaming . but there

14:23

are , there are children that do hear it and get

14:25

very upset . I've had it over the years

14:27

. I've had children that I coached would would

14:29

, would be crying in the dugout Can

14:32

you please go tell my mom to tell my dad to go home

14:34

? Actually happen , really . And I had to stop

14:37

the game and go out and say can you please get so and

14:39

so out of here now ? And

14:41

she , she did . And I

14:43

mean these kids , they don't want

14:45

this . They want , they want to enjoy

14:47

themselves and play .

14:48

They really don't they're . they are not as settled

14:57

into wins or losses like these parents

14:59

are . I mean , they just don't . You know it's , it's , they

15:01

can walk off the field in

15:03

tomorrow's , another day . Yeah , they're just

15:06

not as invested in winning or losing

15:08

at that age .

15:08

They're not And and you know , they're

15:11

at the , at the point where they're learning , and they're learning

15:13

plays and they're learning situations , and

15:15

even though they might have thought , okay , that kid

15:18

, i thought he was out at first , but they're

15:20

not screaming , it's not the kids . The kids are getting

15:22

ready for the next play . Okay , so they called

15:24

him safe , so we got to force it second , so now I got to

15:26

do this and that , and this is what

15:28

I observe . It's not the kids . The kids

15:31

are there to play the game , it's . I

15:33

wish the parents would let the kids play

15:35

and just enjoy watching them

15:37

do that instead of trying

15:40

to throw a monkey wrench into gears and yeah

15:42

, you know , yeah , well , and , and , and , and

15:45

.

15:45

You sort of hit the nail on the head at this

15:47

level . It's all about development , it's all

15:49

about learning the skill set . Uh , situational

15:52

play , i mean that's the big thing about baseball is a

15:54

lot of it's so cerebral is to know

15:56

what you're going to do before

15:59

the ball is even put into play , and

16:01

, and , and , and , the little league

16:03

at the little league level . You know

16:05

this is , this is the time , this is

16:07

the age , this is the level of

16:09

play where you learn all of that stuff Absolutely

16:12

.

16:12

And , and John , you know what Little league is

16:15

recreational .

16:16

It's not like travel ball , where

16:18

you're , you're , you're expected to do

16:20

you know you expect to have a , to

16:22

not have the knowledge of the game , to know all of that

16:24

.

16:25

This goes beyond the realm

16:27

of baseball . What we're trying to teach

16:29

these kids are life lessons . It's those

16:32

, aren't baseball players out there to children . We're

16:34

trying to teach them more than just hitting the ball , although

16:37

we're doing that in the process of teaching them

16:39

camaraderie and sportsmanship

16:41

and respect . And when

16:44

these people come and they act like

16:46

that , what ? what ? it just

16:48

breaks down everything that we

16:50

try as an organization to teach these

16:52

children . And so you

16:55

know , if these people

16:57

are not happy with what we're coming up with

16:59

and they don't want to serve

17:03

the penalty , they can just go away . And

17:06

it's unfortunate because I know it's going to happen . They're

17:08

going to take their children with them and we don't want that

17:10

to happen . But we can't

17:12

have this happening at any cost . You

17:14

know there's other children out there that don't

17:16

need to see this , and if these people don't understand

17:19

that , then so be it .

17:21

Yeah , So , but it sounds like what

17:23

you've put into place , what you've implemented

17:26

, is having an impact And because

17:28

maybe parents look

17:30

at if I'm now being called on to

17:32

call a game and I take it it's not going to be a

17:34

game that their son's playing , right .

17:37

No , we know what those calls would be like . Yeah

17:40

, we know how that game would go .

17:42

So they don't get to umpire their kid's

17:44

game , which means that they got to make even

17:46

more time to be out at the field

17:48

. Absolutely Yeah , and at

17:50

the same time , oh , you know , then everybody's talking

17:52

. There's , hey , there's , you know , there's

17:55

Ralph over there , ralph , and

17:57

I'm sure that they become sort

17:59

of the pariah , the little pariah .

18:02

Absolutely , and we're

18:04

not going to put them behind home plate . Number

18:07

one , that's a liability , because if they don't know what they're doing

18:09

they can get injured . Okay , so we're going to put them

18:11

on a base to begin with . They're going to be on a base

18:13

with a certified umpire out

18:15

there with them And what we , what I

18:17

have told the umpiring staff when

18:20

this happens and you're out there with them , if

18:22

their call is incorrect , you

18:24

override it . You call

18:27

time and you override it . I want

18:29

them to know this is not easy . No

18:31

, yeah , this is . This is not just out

18:34

or safe , it's positioning

18:36

yourself . Okay , the balls hit to the right side of the

18:38

first baseline . You have to know how to go

18:40

out and turn And there's a certain way

18:42

you do it . And now you have to look at a certain

18:44

base . You have to know when to stop so you can see

18:46

the play . There's so much to

18:49

know . And just because

18:51

they

18:53

see that their son or whoever was

18:55

safe and the

18:57

umpire was incorrect , they're

18:59

going to be vocal about it until I guess they

19:01

think they're going to change the call .

19:03

I don't , i don't get it you know Well , but

19:06

don't you think in , in , in . We've

19:09

seen such a huge uptick

19:12

in travel teams . And

19:15

parents . Don't just look at

19:17

this as recreational . They

19:19

are trying to curate

19:22

the next Derek Jeter . They're trying to , you

19:24

know , develop the next Bryce Harper

19:26

out there . Yeah , You get , as you , as

19:29

you show me your Yankees tattoo . Uh

19:31

, that they've already . Uh

19:34

, from the time these kids are nine

19:36

, 10 , 11 , they've already , in their mind

19:38

, set the wheels in motion that I'm

19:41

, I'm creating the next baseball

19:43

superstar .

19:44

Well , well , that that's basically what

19:47

it is . They're , you know , their , their dreams

19:49

. when they played little league in high school

19:51

, their dreams didn't pan out . So

19:53

now they , they want their children's

19:55

too , and you know , and that's great to do

19:57

that , but they've got to . they've got to

19:59

come down to earth and understand

20:02

the percentage of

20:05

kids that that go

20:07

to , that excel and

20:09

make all South Jersey or all Delaware

20:12

, and the percentage of them that make it

20:14

to a D1 college program

20:16

. it's very low , it's , it's

20:18

absolutely low , let alone make

20:21

it to the pro level . So , you

20:23

know , have a . they should have the backup plan and start worrying

20:25

about that quite a bit more than

20:27

their , their , their children playing .

20:29

Well , take it , you know , this is the way that I look

20:32

at it is kids at that age

20:34

, you , you're , you're not developing

20:36

a college baseball player at

20:38

that age , but you're certainly going to burn them out

20:41

of the game before they even get there . Absolutely

20:43

, the chances of that happening are significantly

20:46

greater of burning them out before

20:49

they even get there . But to your point , i think I

20:51

think the number is two to 5% somewhere

20:53

in there that even play high school baseball will

20:55

then take it to the next level , and

20:57

then , of those people to take it to the next

21:00

level , maybe that number is

21:02

5 to 10% that they get a full ride

21:04

scholarship . So you

21:06

can see how the funnel gets so narrow

21:09

from the time that you know and

21:11

if you're playing varsity baseball , you're pretty good , pretty

21:13

good ball player at that point .

21:17

And that's what it is . You

21:19

know you want to know the truth At

21:21

this level where , where

21:23

a lot of these problems are happening , these

21:27

kids aren't thinking about high school ball . They're

21:29

not thinking about anything else except having

21:31

fun and let's play , let's play right now . And

21:34

they're just learning the game

21:36

And at

21:38

some point the parents have

21:40

to leave . leave

21:43

the game to the coaches . And what I tell the

21:45

parents when there's in

21:47

the past , when there's been instances in the stand

21:49

, i says listen , enjoy

21:51

the game , stop yelling out there . If

21:54

you have questions about what happened after the game

21:56

, go to your coach . Don't follow the umpire

21:58

out into the parking lot . Go ask your coach

22:00

. Your coach might give you some insight . He

22:02

might even say no , no , you're wrong , he was

22:05

out . Hey , you know . go talk to him and

22:07

he , you know .

22:08

But here's a here's a good lesson to teach your kids

22:10

. Guess what ? You're not always going to get the call .

22:12

Absolutely .

22:13

Now , failure is a part of life , mm , hmm

22:15

, yeah , you , you , you , you , you , you . By

22:17

failing , you know , you learn to pick yourself

22:20

up , you learn to realize , guess what

22:22

, you know , just like life's

22:24

not fair , yeah , you , you , you're going

22:26

to get , you may get a call . Third strike , that didn't

22:28

cross the plate , it happens , you

22:30

know it's . It's all part of the learning

22:33

process . If you're going to play sports , you're

22:35

going to realize things aren't always

22:37

going to work out in your favor .

22:39

We teach our coaches don't

22:43

work the umpires . read

22:45

the umpires and teach that to the kids . If he's calling

22:47

them high , teach the kids .

22:49

Yeah , That's a great point .

22:50

You got to be swinging .

22:51

Great point , yeah , no , that's that's

22:53

, that's perfect . So what do you have before

22:56

the season ? Do you have a meeting

22:58

with the coaches and sort of set , lay

23:00

out the expectations ? Or , because you've been

23:02

doing this a long time , you bring a wealth of experience

23:05

and to youth baseball . So

23:07

how do you , how have you incorporated

23:09

that into the way that

23:11

you run your particular league ?

23:13

Okay , each league has their own

23:15

player agent and that player

23:18

agent is a coach from

23:20

the past that's

23:22

well versed in in the sport

23:24

and they'll , they'll , they'll

23:26

give some tips , they'll give some , uh

23:29

, they'll go to their practices and show them . They'll

23:31

get them all together and say , okay , this is what we're going to do

23:33

. You're not going to do this And you know , and that

23:35

helps . And then they'll do some mechanics

23:37

on the field with them and show them what

23:39

they're supposed to be doing out there and where

23:42

they're supposed to stand when they're coaching and everything

23:44

. Um , you know super nuts , everything

23:46

that they could teach them . And , um , you know

23:48

, that helps a lot . And , uh

23:51

, our coaches aren't the problem . Our

23:53

coaches are when , when there's when there's

23:55

a problem , they call us up , say yo , i

23:57

don't get this , what do I ? you know this

24:00

happened and this happened . How do I ? how do I fix

24:02

that ? And we'll , and we'll tell them and they'll

24:04

say I'm sorry to call you . Listen , i want

24:07

you to call me , i want you when

24:09

you have a question , because we want the program

24:11

to run smoothly . And they do , they call

24:13

us up , we explain it to them and they're fine

24:15

, they're not the problem .

24:18

Yeah , Yeah , yeah

24:20

. Do the coaches work with these parents

24:23

at all , or to try to approach them

24:25

? I mean , you shouldn't have to be

24:27

the authoritarian

24:29

figure to have to go in and intervene

24:32

every single time , like the policing should

24:34

be done , i think , with the parents

24:36

who have already met with some of the I mean the coaches

24:38

who have met with some of these parents .

24:39

Yeah Well , i suggest to all

24:41

the coaches beginning of the year , you have a

24:43

sit down with the parents , tell them what's expected

24:46

of the children , what's expected of

24:48

the parents in the stand , and let them

24:50

know that there are boundaries and

24:52

don't cross it . And I

24:55

don't expect the managers

24:57

and coaches during a game , when people

25:00

are acting up , to stop the game and go

25:02

out there . That's our job . That's

25:04

why we monitor the fields And

25:08

we tell them you concentrate on that And

25:10

, even though they'll listen to you before

25:13

us , let us handle it And

25:15

you just take care of the children and

25:17

we'll take care of the parents .

25:19

Okay , Well , I mean that makes sense

25:21

. I know that there's other sports

25:23

leagues , other leagues and other sports

25:25

that they make you sign a code

25:27

of conduct policy , And is little

25:29

league thought about that in terms of putting

25:31

a code of conduct in there , or is that just they

25:34

sign it and boom ? that still doesn't really

25:36

deter them one way or the other .

25:39

Our town , deppford , new Jersey . We

25:41

were the first town in the state to enact a code

25:43

of conduct And

25:47

it's worked fine in the past . We've only had

25:49

to use that against a

25:51

spectator I

25:54

guess in 15 years , maybe a handful

25:56

of times . But

25:59

, that being said , you're always going to

26:01

get somebody that's going to push the envelope . They

26:03

don't care what you put into place . People

26:06

have been asking me oh , do you think that you're not going to have any

26:08

problems ? now I said , oh , we'll have problems , it's

26:10

a matter of time . There's people out there

26:12

don't care what we do , what you do

26:15

, they're going to test the waters . So

26:19

I'm prepared And

26:22

a lot of people have been asking me And

26:26

I've seen a lot of different articles

26:30

and stuff . I've seen things on Facebook

26:33

groups and they're saying this

26:35

will never work . You're going to have lawsuits

26:38

and you're going to have this And you're well

26:40

, i hope they understand that we thought

26:42

this out . We just didn't say , hey , this is what we're going

26:44

to do . So there's a process

26:47

for it and it's actually going to be more

26:49

work for us than it is for that person going

26:51

out to the umpire . So

26:54

first of all , we have to do background checks on them . They've

26:56

got to fill out a volunteer application . We

26:58

do two background checks on them . We do

27:01

the JDP background check and

27:03

I do a 50-state sexual offenders

27:05

registry background check . That's number

27:07

one . Then we have

27:09

to have the umpire a certified umpire go out

27:11

there and teach them field mechanics , go

27:13

over the rules with them . Then

27:15

we have to give them . In New

27:18

Jersey we have what's

27:20

called Rutgers Youth Sports Research Council

27:22

, which myself and the town mayor in Deppford

27:24

we give this course . We're

27:26

clinicians through Rutgers . It's a three-hour

27:29

course that's set up through the governor's

27:31

council . When

27:33

these coaches and volunteers sit there

27:35

for the three hours that we're going to speak to

27:38

them about the content

27:40

, they will be immune

27:42

from lawsuits . So now we're

27:44

protecting them that way also . So

27:46

it's not like this wasn't thought

27:48

out And Yeah , you

27:50

had to , we had to .

27:52

You can't just say , hey , we held a

27:54

30-minute emergency meetings , like , let's do

27:56

this . Yeah , you have to have steps

27:59

in place , absolutely . You can't

28:01

just , it can't just be a knee-jerk reaction , no , no , yes

28:04

. So

28:07

that's . What's pretty impressive about the whole thing is

28:09

that you have , like I said , and every coach

28:11

in any sport has to

28:13

undergo all those

28:15

background checks Sure , yeah

28:18

, and it has to fill out all the paperwork . I mean , that's

28:20

otherwise , then you

28:22

are open for liability Sure .

28:25

So we also make all of our volunteers and we're going

28:27

to make any of these people that have

28:29

to umpire . we also make them

28:31

go through an online concussion course so

28:33

that they could recognize the symptoms of the concussion

28:35

Yeah , even in baseball , right , yeah , exactly . So

28:38

it's been thought out . Could

28:41

there be bumps in the road ? Could there be things we have to tweak

28:43

? Of course , of course . Well

28:46

, you don't know until you test it and you see okay , all

28:48

right , this happened out there , that happened . We'll

28:50

do this now to protect us for that and to protect

28:52

them from this , and we'll figure it out . Yeah

28:55

, but I think we're on the right path And

28:57

the same .

28:58

Well , you better be on the right path , because

29:00

before you got

29:03

here today I was

29:05

sort of scouring the internet and the story

29:07

that popped up right away is that

29:09

in this area alone and

29:12

it's probably the same no matter where you

29:14

go is we're hurting for officials

29:16

. There's an extreme need for new officials in

29:18

all sports , all ages , all games , all

29:21

locations , he

29:24

says . The person that they talked

29:26

to in this article said his

29:28

first year he did 15 games

29:30

in a season . Now he's doing 40 games . He's

29:34

now doing almost triple because you got

29:36

less manpower And

29:40

what people don't really , i think . Oh

29:43

, they go on to say that they've probably lost 30%

29:45

of their officials . They

29:48

says we'll lose two or three a year and only

29:50

get one . So your turnover

29:52

is you're not filling

29:54

that need And

29:57

the problem is that

29:59

if you don't have them at the grassroots level

30:01

, there's probably

30:04

a trickle up effect That means they're

30:06

not becoming equipped

30:08

. You start at that level so that

30:10

you can work your way into

30:13

whatever the next level High

30:15

school baseball , junior high , middle school , high school

30:17

, and then , if they do minor

30:20

league baseball , whatever their aspirations

30:22

of doing it the bottom line is

30:24

as though you start at the bottom If you've got

30:26

nobody starting at the bottom . Nobody's ever

30:28

going to work their way to the very top .

30:31

Correct And the ones

30:33

that are quitting and walking

30:35

away . The number one I've

30:38

read a lot of articles . The

30:40

number one reason is fan abuse . They

30:43

, a lot of them , don't want to deal with it , and

30:45

I don't blame them . I wouldn't want to deal with it .

30:47

Yeah , i mean hockey , which I'm

30:50

at a lot of hockey games .

30:55

See , i'm sure , football All the context is worse .

30:57

Yeah Right , because you're

30:59

expected certain penalties to be called , and

31:02

I mean everybody's got rose-colored

31:04

glasses on for their particular team , exactly

31:06

.

31:10

And I guess if people would

31:12

think on their way to that game

31:14

, hey , things might happen

31:16

today that I'm not going to agree with . Okay

31:19

, well , get it in your head now that you're

31:21

not the one that makes that decision . If you

31:23

want to make those decisions , we'll

31:25

teach you how to do it . You could come out

31:27

and help us . Otherwise , if

31:29

you're going to stand on that side of the fence , you've

31:31

got to be quiet , and

31:34

if you can't just give positive reinforcement

31:36

to these kids , don't say a word .

31:38

Don't say a word . That's it . So

31:40

, since you've put this into play , tell

31:42

me some of the immediate attention that you've received

31:45

, because you certainly didn't expect that

31:47

a little Deppford , New

31:49

Jersey , was going to be

31:51

, you know , was going to

31:53

garner this much attention from

31:55

so many different media outlets .

31:57

It's unbelievable . I

32:00

sent an e-mail , a mass e-mail

32:03

out to the parents . The second

32:05

e-mail , and then I wrestled

32:07

with the idea of putting it on Facebook And

32:09

I said I just want to make this

32:12

local , i don't want this to get out of hand

32:14

in other towns around us calling me

32:16

up and saying what are you doing ? I said

32:18

heck with it And I put it up on Facebook

32:20

. And it wasn't long after

32:22

that that the media

32:24

started calling And

32:26

I didn't even know how they got my

32:28

phone number Until one of them said I

32:30

said how did you get my phone number ? It's

32:33

on your info on your Facebook

32:36

. I just said what .

32:37

I didn't even know I had my phone number .

32:38

Right , so but and

32:42

it went , when

32:44

I was at Fox and Friends , they

32:47

sent a car down to pick me up and drive me there And

32:50

I befriended this guy . I said , yeah , let

32:52

me sit in the front . We were just talking .

32:54

They sent a car down to drive you from South

32:56

Jersey up to New York City .

32:57

Yes , CNN did it too . But

33:00

when I was going with him , he

33:02

, on the way back , he said to me you

33:05

don't know what you did . I says

33:07

, yeah , i do , we're trying to solve a problem . He goes no

33:09

, you don't realize what you did . He

33:12

said I , i'm inside

33:14

in the green room , in and out of there all day long

33:16

. He goes . I was listening to the

33:18

reporters in there yesterday and they're talking and

33:21

the one woman I forget the name said to the

33:23

other guys is this has

33:25

gone viral across the country so

33:27

quick . And he said to her . he

33:29

said what is it , tell me ? he said to her this

33:31

is going to go global . And

33:34

it wasn't long after that I got

33:36

calls from Australia , cbs

33:38

News in Australia . They

33:41

called me on a phone conversation and

33:44

it went throughout the whole continent

33:46

. Canada same thing

33:48

. I think it was sun something . The

33:50

same thing , throughout throughout Canada . It

33:53

was like crazy This was . and

33:55

you know what it made me realize . The

33:57

reason is is not because it's

34:00

a novelty , because people realize

34:02

this is a big problem And

34:04

we've got to do something about

34:07

it . Mine , my solution

34:09

, might not be the answer , but what

34:11

I ? I ask

34:13

every coach that has contacted

34:15

me do something . You don't

34:18

have to do what we're doing . Do

34:20

something . Let's let the people know

34:22

we're not going to put up with this . We're going

34:24

to let the kids play , if you like it or not . And

34:27

if we keep doing this and keep that line of communication

34:29

open , somebody's going to have the

34:31

great idea

34:34

and we can all follow that . But

34:36

we're not going to know unless everybody does it . And

34:38

all those people out there were saying oh

34:40

, he's crazy , this will never work . What's wrong with him

34:42

? He's an ass . I said I really don't

34:44

care what they think . We're trying

34:47

and you have to try somewhere .

34:49

You have to try .

34:49

You have to try .

34:50

You have to try something at some point And

34:53

, like I said , you've been president now for

34:55

12 , 13 years You

34:58

can only stand pads for so long

35:00

and kick people out And cause at

35:03

some as you've said off , you know , at

35:05

the top of this episode is that

35:07

doesn't work anymore .

35:09

It doesn't . And you know what , john ? I'm

35:12

a true believer of this . Somebody brought

35:14

this to my attention years ago . Some of these

35:17

people don't even know that they're

35:19

acting like this . They're just so

35:21

. They're just so into

35:23

this game and the excitement of it , and

35:26

I'm going to tell you why . Recently

35:28

, since I did this , i got a

35:30

text sent to me from

35:33

somebody in my town , and this is how the text

35:35

went . This is after we initiated this . Kudos

35:38

to you , congratulations . This needed to be

35:40

done a while ago . I

35:43

applaud you for bringing this to everybody's

35:45

attention and having the guts to start it . You're

35:47

the man That came

35:49

from somebody . That's one of the problems , one

35:52

of the problems in our league , yeah , in the stands

35:54

And I was like I don't believe

35:57

this , it's unbelievable

35:59

, and it just made me

36:01

think they're right . Sometimes they don't

36:03

even realize what they're doing . They

36:05

got you know . Sometimes you got to .

36:07

My father told me It's like they step out of body

36:09

. It's an out of body experience

36:11

, exactly , and it's almost

36:14

as if you need to have a . And obviously

36:16

, with social media and everybody has a camera phone and

36:18

this , it's so easy that when

36:21

these episodes happen

36:23

, it usually goes

36:25

onto Facebook or it goes onto Twitter and

36:27

, you see it , it starts to circulate and these things

36:29

go viral And

36:33

you would think people would start to catch

36:35

on , say I don't want to be the guy that , but

36:38

it doesn't . And then you see more and more of it . I

36:40

see I've seen parents try

36:43

to climb the glass in a hockey game . I've

36:45

seen , I've seen parents walk out on

36:47

the field of a football game , you know , during

36:50

the game , and confront the ref

36:52

and punch them , so , but

36:54

it doesn't . It does it , does it , does it . They just

36:56

don't they

36:59

, they . It's no self-consciousness

37:01

and no self-awareness of what's what's

37:03

taking place in the heat of the moment .

37:06

You know they need to . They need to stop

37:08

, calm down , stop

37:10

breathe , count to 10

37:12

and then see if you're still that mad .

37:14

Well , yeah , and and and . Look , a

37:16

lot of sports have that what they call the 24

37:19

hour policy , which

37:21

is more directed towards a parent

37:24

and coach , where you don't like the fact that they

37:26

pulled Johnny after the fifth inning , or

37:28

pinch , hit him , or

37:31

he didn't get enough playing time , or

37:33

or , or you know he only

37:35

pitched one . Whatever the case , whatever it is And

37:37

there's , it happens in hockey , i'm sure it happens in every sport

37:39

But there's a 24 hour cooling

37:41

down period . You almost , you almost

37:44

need that in this board . There's a 24 hour cooling down . And , first off , you

37:46

should never talk to the officials . No

37:48

parent official interaction

37:51

at all . No , it shouldn't be , but but

37:53

it's the whole cooling

37:55

down period . You're right , that's a good point . Count to 10 . Do

37:57

whatever you need to do . Maybe walk

37:59

away , go to your car for an inning or two

38:01

, but you got to . Just , you got to breathe , you

38:04

got to .

38:06

I tell , i tell my own powers . When

38:08

, especially during the game

38:11

, when you're confronted in the stand , they're asking you

38:13

what was that call and how come you

38:15

do not turn around and answer them . I

38:17

said , well , all you're going to do , it's , it's . It's just going to escalate

38:19

. You're not going to change their mind

38:22

. So I do not turn

38:24

around and tell them why . Okay , let

38:26

the coach take care of it after the game . So

38:30

it's I've . I've seen them follow the umpire

38:32

out to the parking lot and I have walked

38:34

out there and you know , and , and we've

38:38

had , i guess about six years ago one of

38:40

our board members was punched in the face

38:42

. The , the

38:45

, the , the the irate fan

38:47

followed . um

38:49

well , came up to the stand to to confront

38:52

the board members about this umpire that

38:54

they didn't believe , like this call . And

38:57

when one of my board members tried to deescalate

39:00

it and tried to calm him down , he grabbed

39:02

my board members' phone , threw

39:04

it over the concession stand , punched him in

39:06

the face , took his hot dog , threw it in his face It

39:09

we , we pressed charges .

39:11

Yeah .

39:11

He's , he's this . This person is banned for life

39:13

. Yeah , so you know it's , it's

39:16

happened , it's , and it just

39:18

boggles the mind . It's like

39:21

over , over , and that was

39:23

over seven and eight year olds , over seven

39:25

and eight year olds children

39:27

.

39:27

It's astonishing , isn't it ? There's

39:31

Little League , uh

39:33

, up in Williamsport called and said hey

39:35

, we hear what you're doing . Oh

39:37

, how , how is it working ? What did

39:40

you ? what have you had to do in order to implement

39:42

it ? Uh , and you know , have they brought

39:44

you a board to , to , to help with

39:46

the sportsmanship , the gamesmanship

39:48

of , of Little League baseball ? They have not .

39:50

Okay , well , what the ? the um , the president

39:53

of Little League International came , came

39:55

on one of the uh , uh

39:57

, the the networks where I did a

40:00

um an interview and and gave

40:02

us kudos and said we , we

40:04

applaud Deferent Little League for uh , trying

40:07

to implement a a fun and positive way

40:09

. You know , and I , i appreciated that

40:11

, but they didn't reach out to us . I'm , i'm kind of disappointed

40:13

that they didn't , because I would have liked to to

40:15

discuss it with them . But , um , i'm

40:18

, I'm okay as long as , as long

40:20

as we , we have control of it . You know

40:22

, uh , in our town . That that's what

40:24

I'm concerned about , right , now ?

40:26

Well , i I would think that there's a lot

40:28

of Little League programs , a lot of sports leagues

40:30

that are going through this . How , what

40:32

can we do ? Uh , how can

40:35

we combat the issue ? How can we control

40:37

the environment ? Um , and

40:40

so , as you said , it's , it's probably

40:43

something that where you're going to have to put it

40:45

into your charter or into your

40:47

books , and this is what we're going to do And

40:49

that's what you figured out .

40:50

Exactly , and we're , we're right

40:53

now we're . it hasn't been tested

40:55

yet , but , um , it's been

40:57

a deterrent which is great , and people

40:59

are . uh , there was a an

41:02

article in one of the local papers just came out

41:04

last week in New Jersey

41:06

and they , they asked one of the parents

41:08

and she said I don't like , i

41:10

don't like that they call us obnoxious

41:12

parents , which I don't remember ever at

41:15

one of my players Referring as obnoxious . Um

41:18

, obnoxious as I guess they're , they're uh

41:20

, uh , their actions in the stands Right

41:22

. And , and she , um

41:24

, uh , she continued . They asked

41:26

her okay , have you ever been one of those parents

41:29

in the stands that have yelled ? And she

41:31

said , yes , i have , because

41:33

they make some bad calls sometimes and it makes

41:35

us lose the game . And he says he

41:37

said something to the effect of I think you're one

41:40

of the ones that don't get it . So

41:42

, so that's absolutely true .

41:44

So Yeah , so

41:46

you've done a lot at this interview process , right

41:48

? Yeah , i've done a lot . You've

41:50

done a lot right .

41:52

You kind of like it . I do , i like it , i

41:54

enjoy it . You know more

41:56

than just me liking it . I'm , i'm getting

41:58

the word out , and you know what ? I have a chance

42:01

to make a difference and

42:03

I want to . I want to take

42:05

that chance and run with it . So that's

42:07

why , uh , i , i haven't

42:09

turned down any , any , any interviews . So

42:12

I want to get the word out .

42:13

Yeah , Why I appreciate you coming on here

42:15

. You've done this a week

42:17

ago , uh , but

42:19

you were honored as the citizen

42:21

of the week and in , in , in , in , in

42:23

, in in in your town which is

42:25

a great honor .

42:26

That's good .

42:27

They they're recognizing you for the work that you're doing

42:29

in the little league which they made us . They

42:31

probably didn't even know your name , but what

42:33

you did for you know the last 13 years as as

42:36

little league president they do .

42:37

They know me and you know of

42:39

all all this thing that it went international

42:41

. That really hit

42:44

my heart because I love my town . You

42:47

couldn't pay me to go live anywhere

42:49

else And that was so

42:51

wonderful and important to me

42:53

. I'll never forget it . And they , they , they

42:55

treat me like , like royalty in town and

42:57

and I appreciate that And I'll do anything

43:00

for the , for the , for the people and the kids

43:02

in our town And I think they recognize

43:04

that and they honored me with this And

43:06

it was quite humbling .

43:08

Well , working with kids is is been in

43:10

your , i think it's just it's in your blood and

43:12

something that you enjoy because you're

43:15

wearing a shirt little t-shirt the Bizzuffie

43:17

Karate and Achievement Center

43:19

, which is right there in Defford . So

43:23

if you're talking about implementing

43:25

structure and discipline and

43:27

and a sort of a regimen attitude

43:30

, that's where it all starts And that's

43:32

what a lot of parents do is is they ? they

43:34

get them into karate to to

43:36

learn all of that . you know , authoritative

43:39

figure , discipline , and

43:42

I think if you have a child at

43:45

any age , especially at the young age

43:47

, you know they call them they're different names

43:49

little dragons , whatever they are but karate

43:52

. karate is such a good place to start

43:54

before they decide to branch

43:56

off and to do any sport .

43:58

Sure , i

44:00

, every now and then I'll sit the kids down and I'll make

44:02

them understand . I'll say what , why

44:04

do you come to martial arts

44:07

? What do you want that of it ? And most of them

44:09

will say , oh , i want to learn how to fight , oh , i

44:11

want to learn how to protect myself . I

44:13

said , okay , i says how about

44:15

the discipline and the respect that

44:18

that that could improve your life

44:20

? I said how many fights have you

44:22

been in ? Everybody raise your hand if you've been in five

44:24

fights . Nobody raised Four , three , two

44:27

, one . And very

44:29

few kids have been in a fight . But

44:31

how many times in your

44:33

life have you had to have respect

44:35

or discipline ? That's the important

44:37

things here , not the fighting . They'll teach you

44:39

how to protect yourself , but it goes far beyond

44:42

that and it's all up here in your head

44:44

. And they ? you'd

44:46

be surprised how these young kids

44:48

understand everything you're telling

44:50

them and they just soak it up like a sponge .

44:54

But that's the age in which they're

44:56

very susceptible to learning . Those are the very , those

44:58

are the very key years and

45:00

their development , where they are learning

45:03

, they are understanding , they're hearing

45:05

what you're saying and

45:07

as adults , you know it's probably in one

45:09

ear out the other . With them , it stays and it sticks

45:11

with them . Right , it does .

45:14

And you know I'll teach them , okay

45:17

, what I want

45:19

you to do . Instead of going home tonight and

45:22

saying , dad or mom , i want

45:24

you to call them sir or ma'am . And they're

45:26

like huh , and the someone the parents

45:28

will come to me and says It's really weird , he calls

45:30

me sir . Now I'm like , well , that's good , that's

45:32

, that's the respect , yeah , you know . And

45:34

so they get it . And and

45:37

those that do get it and want

45:39

to And want

45:41

to advance , oh , they get so good at it and

45:43

that could be part of their life . That's the

45:45

path that they're gonna follow and have

45:48

respect and discipline .

45:49

Yeah , how long have you had the karate studio

45:51

now ?

45:52

This karate studio I opened in 2017

45:55

, but I've been doing it most my life tongue

45:57

pseudo About 30 years

45:59

, but I started in judo when I was 12

46:01

.

46:01

Yeah , what keeps you going

46:04

between little league president and karate

46:06

studio ? I

46:09

take it that's not even your full-time job . You probably

46:12

do something else , right ? Yes , i

46:14

mean , that's what people don't understand

46:16

about officiating is that until

46:18

recently and when I say recently , like 15 , 20

46:21

years ago even NFL officials

46:23

had full-time jobs

46:25

because There

46:29

was , they didn't get paid enough Until

46:31

they redid their collective bargaining agreement in

46:33

a fell , they had separate full-time

46:36

jobs . Officiating was not a

46:38

full-time job in the national football

46:40

league exactly . So you can't expect that

46:42

at any level that this is a full-time

46:45

gig . They , they have to . They

46:47

love it . They're doing it because they love it , but they also

46:49

have to have a job to supplement what

46:51

they're doing .

46:52

That's , that's what you almost have to remember

46:54

yes , you do , and and

46:56

I Do it because

46:59

I love the kids . I love seeing

47:01

the impact that I could have

47:03

on a child and and it's

47:05

very rewarding and I have

47:07

kids that'll come up to me after class and

47:10

just hug me and it's like It

47:12

just melts me and it's like that's

47:14

what it's all about , that these kids Understand

47:17

we're trying to help them to

47:19

improve their life . And it

47:21

be a baseball , be its soccer , be

47:23

a karate They

47:25

look up to you and I tell my coaches

47:28

, when we give the Rutgers course , i say these

47:30

kids are hanging on every word

47:32

. You say don't think they're not and

47:35

you're special Because you

47:37

could say nothing wrong to them . So make

47:39

sure that what you're telling is the right thing , right thing

47:41

to do .

47:42

Yeah , they'll take it to heart , don

47:44

Bazzotti , president of The

47:47

Defford little league and as his own karate

47:49

of studio . Thank you so much for coming in . This has been

47:51

great been a lightning Educational

47:54

. I think that a lot of parents will

47:57

certainly take a lot of this to heart , and

47:59

maybe there's some little leagues out there that'll adopt

48:01

what you're doing , since it seems to be

48:03

working . It's , it's . It seems to be a deterrent

48:06

.

48:06

So far , so far , and

48:08

if not , like I said , do something . Doesn't

48:11

have to be what I'm doing , but be proactive

48:14

and do something be proactive .

48:15

Yeah , absolutely All right , don . Thanks so much . We're gonna

48:17

end our this episode , as we

48:19

always do every single week , with

48:21

our quote of the week This week

48:24

. surround yourself with those who tell you what

48:26

you need to hear , not just what

48:28

you want to hear . Thank to everybody once

48:31

again . If you get a chance , give

48:33

us a review . Those reviews

48:35

go a long way in terms of moving

48:37

us up the charts . Subscribe to us

48:39

and every time we get a new episode out , you'll

48:42

be notified . You can listen to it And

48:44

then give us that review . Well , so anyway , thanks

48:47

to Don , and thanks to all of you for listening out

48:49

there .