0:00

Ha! Ha

0:02

ha ha. So fed.

0:06

Up and then harm. Oh

0:11

my Good Hundred And One.

0:13

Ha! Ha

0:17

which allow them

0:19

to. Linger.

0:22

Radio Lab Or Adventures on the

0:24

Edge of what we think we

0:26

know. Hello

0:32

and welcome to Raising Hell where we

0:34

explore the real challenges a norms opportunity

0:36

is facing entrepreneurs who are building the

0:38

future of Hell. Emulator.

0:45

Yeah, and I'm Chris. Today's episode features

0:48

a luminary in the world of medicine

0:50

in size: doctor Carl June joined by

0:52

a sixteen Z General Partner or Acorn

0:54

Day. Carl is an immunologist and oncologist

0:56

at the University of Pennsylvania where he

0:59

pioneered treatment with Court T Cells. A

1:01

remarkable story that he gets into during

1:03

the episode. Though this episode was originally

1:05

published in September, Twenty Twenty Three Back

1:07

on we were called by oh, it's

1:10

World where republishing it today during this

1:12

year as a As Gct conference where

1:14

the latest advances. And sell and gene

1:16

therapy like what Karl describes Er Shared and

1:19

disgust. You're listening to Raising Health for

1:21

a Sixteen Z by When Health. Welcome

1:26

to the A Six and see bio It's

1:29

World Podcast procedure Been here where are thanks

1:31

Rom or Obs or a pleasure to have

1:33

to be or whether. You. Have

1:35

such an incredible background. In terms

1:37

of service, illustrious career, but you've also had

1:39

this indelible impact on how we think about

1:42

treating cancer. Walk us through the beginning of

1:44

the journey and how you sort of and

1:46

up. Where. You are now. You

1:48

know, my father's a chemical engineer and I

1:50

thought that's what I'm going to be. Everyone

1:52

was an engineer. Martin Amro. Mmm. Your.

1:55

I wound up in the navy because the Vietnam

1:58

war in a low draft number. The My. Seventy

2:00

One. I had actually been admitted to Stanford

2:02

and a class. imagine seventy One of the

2:04

man. But. Depend on your

2:06

birthday that year on non preserves, a

2:09

lottery on who went into the army.

2:11

To the Vietnam War and are. So.

2:14

I ended up not going to Stanford and then.

2:17

They. Are went to the naval academy and

2:19

where we're going as an officer and

2:21

not be in the to tree and

2:23

gentlemen started know what their curriculum was

2:25

earnest and just went there and turned

2:27

out it started a pre med programme.

2:30

A. Year before and it was a

2:32

combined my biology and chemistry major

2:34

and so I did that. And.

2:37

Found out of it, really was excited

2:39

about and then they know. Unfortunately, the

2:41

Vietnam war ended and Seventy four. And

2:44

I graduated and and seventy five in the

2:46

Navy. Then. Are sent me

2:48

to medical schools, my mother and have lupus

2:51

where I was growing up around a lot

2:53

of auto immune disease my there when. So

2:55

I started when I was in medical school.

2:57

In. Every free elected back to do.

3:00

I started work and I started. didn't

3:02

graduate courses and immunology and then I.

3:04

Worked and. Ah, Roger

3:07

Ross Hims Laboratory you as an

3:09

immunologist and and nephrologist started in.

3:12

A new complexes and our driver's side

3:14

of really got into mad and then.

3:16

A graduate Medical School your early and then

3:18

may. I. Add that a

3:21

whole year free. As us on the

3:23

Navy scholarships I went to Switzerland and

3:25

at the World Health Organization I studied

3:27

immune complexes and malaria. You know I

3:29

had a background and mouse. And

3:32

immunology. and at that point that I

3:34

or got allergic to mice he developed

3:36

an allergy to mice. Yeah yeah and

3:38

so I would get asthma whenever I

3:40

went The mouse room. So. I

3:42

ended up then has may I was forced

3:44

me to study Human t cells were tons

3:47

of biggest lesson ever! as

3:49

most people didn't do that. Followed immunology

3:51

back and was. In. Bread Mice.

3:54

And. Us or I was nameless. You. During

3:57

initial signal transduction as as on

3:59

primary. I'm in Tucson was. An

4:01

announcer. I got it, a teaser liked of

4:04

Asia and then. The. Now

4:06

they're signal transduction pathways work.

4:09

To. Activate in control T cells because

4:11

we're now. The. Navy submitted

4:13

to work on bone marrow transplants.

4:16

If. The Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center we

4:18

saw. What? Happens when t cells really

4:20

go wild In the said it run out

4:22

of a transplant. I mean. It's.

4:25

Literally true that grabbers his hostesses

4:27

interior and just a week or

4:29

two. Faster. Than the junior

4:31

am in there was amazing and. To

4:34

see would allergen a T cells could

4:36

do and been there. Organ damage was

4:38

unbelievable So. Low so

4:41

that's where I started studying them. Biochemistry.

4:43

Of signal transduction than. Your.

4:46

Compounds like Psycho Spore and and so

4:48

on and to we. Controlled.

4:50

It's he saw activation and spy backed

4:52

into a.life So it's a dysfunction and

4:54

your immune system is what led you

4:56

to study. P. Selling it all.

4:58

Just keep it that stats courtesy. Yeah,

5:00

so I had a levin year obligation

5:02

to pay back the Navy. Per.

5:05

Cent A Graduate School and

5:07

Man Medical School and and

5:09

undergraduate and. I. Did it three

5:11

or fellowship and and oncology to have

5:13

it and allowed. At the

5:15

Fred Hutchinson and I work in and emitter

5:18

genetics lab there and then. At.

5:20

Age thirty one I was a given my own

5:22

labs and in are now that would be very

5:24

young. Guy. And so was

5:26

just a shorter training period. I was never allowed

5:28

to get a D H D. So.

5:30

I started off with only two and a half

5:33

years of lab experience I had my own was

5:35

run in a lab you know when I was

5:37

in the Navy and it was a wonderful day

5:39

because we're intramural Sunday in the Grants where he

5:42

is it again and out baird of each days.

5:45

And. As I worked night and day in

5:47

a lab, I had spent one month to years

5:49

or inclination. And the rest of

5:51

time work in a lab and I continued

5:53

what I'd started different hard to resist. The.

5:56

Certain pathway of city toys it I

5:58

was really ensure that and. The.

6:00

Only Grant I to get from a navy

6:02

the stated that was an Hiv. We

6:05

ended up having several papers and science

6:07

on how. Cd. Twenty

6:09

eight interacted with Hiv

6:11

and. He sells it. Turns out.

6:14

City. Twenty Eight can actually.

6:17

Turn. Off the Hiv Co receptor

6:19

which is Ccr fire. And

6:21

hence of attacks in as. We

6:23

discovered dad were ways activated to

6:26

cells to grow from aid stations.

6:28

Their. T cells were seeds reinstated. Twenty eight.

6:31

The. Virus could not reproduce at was

6:33

amazing find him And so that was

6:35

my first science paper. You know it

6:37

turns out that there's a yang and

6:40

and yang between their see join for

6:42

Molecule Mc Twenty Eight. So. See.

6:44

July Four turns on H Id Co

6:46

receptor and then it's they did and

6:49

Sack Dead. And they're like sitting

6:51

ducks. The virus just kills him. And

6:53

but if you. Flip it around

6:55

and stimulate the cells. Your Cd Twenty

6:57

eight site. The. People who are born

6:59

with the Ccr Five. Homozygous.

7:02

Deficiency can second with Hiv.

7:04

Because they are an exact instance or the virus

7:06

can infect be mean sounded turn to the title.

7:09

Of the music and it's and in fact

7:11

glass the bikes. That's how we found out

7:13

we risk trying to grow T cells, magi

7:15

V and secretary since you're basically had none.

7:18

And there are the mass Were the first

7:20

car to sell trial ever done was an

7:22

Hiv patients. And sell Genesis.

7:24

You know our biotech back and

7:26

south San Francisco. Way. Back.

7:29

In eighties and early nineties

7:31

had I'm. They. Had made

7:33

a car for Hiv. And then

7:35

when we discovered this way to grow t

7:37

cells received twenty eight they came as and

7:39

said to my work and do a trial.

7:42

And that was the first child on was. using.

7:44

The City Twenty eight coded beads that we

7:47

made to activate a T cells. And.

7:49

And introduce their car module and

7:51

Thermo Fisher now sells those speeds

7:53

know I was in the Us

7:55

Naval Research when we invented in

7:57

Patna Down there was all done.

8:00

Where Hiv and and now all the a

8:02

big pharma as use. that is

8:04

when accurate she sounds your as what of

8:06

artist as to make cards he sells now.

8:09

For. The audience it may be that is

8:11

less steep. Didn't answer cancer knowledge. he. Lets.

8:13

To the quick primer on on What

8:15

a card! t. Cell

8:18

therapy is and saw a car t

8:20

sell his. You. Know, take your

8:22

own immune system. And protect

8:24

a t cells out from a

8:26

blood is most straightforward way. And.

8:28

Then react beta cells that we had

8:31

discovered for Hiv infection. you get through

8:33

their t soros after and the seeds

8:35

or module. And. Then we

8:37

can put in an antibody redirected

8:39

car module will cry marriage and

8:42

two receptor and. The. First

8:44

ones that we tested. words and city.

8:46

nineteen. Which. Is on all

8:48

be sound malignancies and so we

8:50

basically then can read target a

8:52

patient's t cells that. Were.

8:54

Of evolutionarily now develop to

8:57

decide viral infections. With.

8:59

An antibody read rationale naked they said

9:01

where you can to her to to

9:03

insulted. Birds. Marriage you want

9:05

to sort of flexible platform. It turned

9:07

out that the cells. And. Is

9:09

amazing property when. They

9:11

would bind with high of synergy to

9:14

their target on that the Leukemia cells

9:16

in nineteen. A card.

9:18

Tisa. Would kill that leukemia Cel

9:20

Putin. The cards you sell divided.

9:24

And that was an air. It was

9:26

much more potent than humans than we

9:28

ever saw her preclinical models. As

9:31

an ever guard it's a it's a

9:33

persistent living medicine right? A device so

9:35

it it replicates, it increases. Isn't a

9:37

census. It's a smart sell so it

9:40

knows when to kill him. Went to

9:42

not. And. The first patients

9:44

we treated in two thousand and ten. Your.

9:47

Now are for station that he's actually out

9:49

near where you are you It was to

9:51

Stanford for is how health check ups but

9:53

he. Thirteen. Years ago with

9:55

users August two thousand and ten and he

9:57

still has Carty cells. And.

10:00

Simulating drought is my. Yeah. And

10:02

you know they say there is

10:05

a memory so it's now specific

10:07

for leukemia cells and ham and.

10:10

So. That was a real chef wins

10:12

used maybe about a hundred million cards,

10:14

he sells annotations, but over. The

10:17

period in two weeks the patients with made.

10:19

About. A kilogram of cards he

10:21

sells. So that's about. Ten

10:23

of it's wealth and it's a huge

10:25

buyers and added. Challenge to

10:28

the body. To. Make

10:30

is like making an entire new organ

10:32

so that two hundred million that we

10:34

wouldn't use. What? We can trace

10:36

them and show the day would be about. Ten.

10:39

Or twelve. Two. Weeks later,

10:41

They're. Responding patients which in the to

10:43

leukemia ninety percent of them had a

10:45

complete response. It was dark

10:47

like that Leukemia cells are go away.

10:50

And then that cortisol would go down into

10:52

a memory level. They would go down to

10:55

about one thousand. Of. What

10:57

They were their peak in this

10:59

see mags time. So they regulate

11:01

their persistence in a way similar

11:04

to our immune system. They effectively

11:06

become surveillance, right? So his wedding

11:08

reason? the malignancy. What a comeback!

11:11

The cells here as and and they could react.

11:13

They stay on patrol and we can show that

11:16

you know intensely and mice were we. You.

11:18

Know they can go in remission and then

11:20

their car T cells. Go

11:23

down to very low persistence. I'm a bit down.

11:25

We can read challenge the mice with tumors

11:27

and mccarty cells come back. But. Go

11:29

up and number again and then the

11:31

tumor goes away again. it's really are

11:33

the leading drug. As you said he

11:35

mentioned Cd nineteen which is a marker

11:38

that present on on be cells that

11:40

become malignant. Be cells of course are

11:42

part of the mean system and malignancies

11:44

and be since give rise to the

11:46

Kenya's the first use of party cell

11:48

therapy and cancer where it's been shown

11:50

to be effective has been. In

11:53

both adults and eventually children to Kenya's.

11:55

And. So the individually mention that lives

11:57

in the Bay Area. that is tree

11:59

stamps that's been going on ten years

12:01

or beyond. Malignancy free that individuals treated

12:04

as an adult. Oh yeah, that he

12:06

was sixty five years old, woman sixty

12:08

three when retreated. I'm We've also had

12:10

examples where children have been treated. One

12:12

of the most notable as courses is

12:14

Emily Whitehead you treated tell sad story

12:17

Door preclinical data was done. With.

12:19

T as regular t me as in a

12:22

graph so mice we could take shelter refractory

12:24

became he added see the ancient positive. And

12:27

then give that in mind say we're gift and

12:29

human leukemia and weekend That's how we showed of

12:31

the car T cells work. And.

12:33

Allowed us to treat patients and then. We.

12:36

Had a protocol to treat both

12:38

adults and pediatric leukemia that will

12:40

see ninety positive. A

12:42

Because we're away, their assets are written.

12:45

Through. That F T A. And

12:47

I are be as we had our first

12:49

started adults and serve as started as I

12:51

mentioned her in two Thousand and Ten. And.

12:54

When we had data on a handful of patience

12:56

and we're allowed to treat. Pediatric.

12:58

Patients and so in April of two

13:00

thousand and twelve. The. First patient

13:02

was treated our and she was. Seven.

13:05

Years old I am I wide had and

13:07

she had. A, you know, very

13:09

rude. A dance to a team here were literally.

13:12

Days. To weeks of survival anticipated

13:14

and know how to complete response

13:17

but also. Swear. We saw really

13:19

prefer the first time severe side of hiring

13:21

these syndrome. And just to define of

13:23

for for folks. That. Is when

13:26

essentially the immune system. Overheats,

13:28

right? It's often called the Cytokine Storm.

13:31

Yes, that's exactly. It's a hot, synthetically

13:33

hyper activated immune system. Because you know.

13:35

I mentioned you can get ten or

13:37

twelve. Card. T cells all

13:40

citing one in A Gems in

13:42

this case a C. Nineteen Leukemia

13:44

last tumors our and. That

13:46

when they. Kill those cells. Mccarty

13:49

cells themselves make a lot of side

13:51

of kinds that cause fever and then

13:53

activate other cells and immune system like.

13:56

Macrophages, And them also makes

13:58

either times as so. The White:

14:00

it has had a temperature of one hundred

14:02

and six degrees to three days. And

14:05

it was not due to an infection. it

14:07

was all dude to were being. Were.

14:10

Literally a book of now. A

14:12

belated. By. A car

14:14

T cells in a very rapid time or

14:16

is like where is this to say shock

14:18

and I'm in. Her immune system was hyper

14:20

activated. And we found out

14:22

that was the fever was driven by

14:24

and I'll sex and I one sided

14:26

time cascade and so was at predicted

14:29

as a potential adverse event or she

14:31

had not I organ failure was on

14:33

very near as das at a time

14:35

when we figured out where she adds

14:37

of answer was it was not protected

14:39

in our or preclinical mouse models. you

14:41

know that really is human eyes My

14:43

eyes. Given. Human T cells and

14:46

human leukemia. they did not yet the

14:48

fever. Now for people who been in

14:50

a bar industry and pharma they know.

14:53

It. Is a lot of difference in a mouse

14:55

and humans inside a time. Biology: So for instance,

14:57

there's now a lot of. Experiments

14:59

over the decades. Attackers were

15:01

right time to treat census.

15:03

You know which is basically a cytokine

15:06

storm would do a bacterial infections? See

15:08

him? And that has

15:10

a lotta tumor Necrosis factor

15:12

Tnf alford secreted. And there's.

15:14

Turns. Out and there's a lotta ways you

15:17

can cure that demise. And then

15:19

it's never worked in humans. In oh,

15:21

so, there's a lump along graveyard of

15:23

trials trying to treat us, the sepsis,

15:25

and a turns out there's a thousand

15:28

fold difference between mice and humans. In

15:31

the lethal dose of Tnf alba

15:33

the Tumor Necrosis Factor. Well.

15:35

And that's our minds didn't get

15:37

cited review syndrome. But.

15:39

That humans you're dead and in are humans

15:41

are much more sensitive to T and ass

15:43

and the side of times than the mouse.

15:46

So. We found out though we're by

15:48

basically bio corralling of asses, We.

15:51

And when Emily was in this refractories

15:53

fever that wouldn't wait, we couldn't sign

15:55

an infection. And. And other

15:57

anti inflammatories and like steroids,

16:00

The Not. Did. Not touch

16:02

the beavers of them. Were. We found

16:04

his her cytokine eternal are interleukin

16:06

sex or I'll sex. Was.

16:08

About a thousand fold above baseline.

16:11

And fortunately there is a drug

16:13

just reese The remarks before that

16:15

if they approved. To. Treat

16:18

arthritis, juvenile Arthritis which

16:20

is also. A pathological high

16:22

levels of interleukin sex. Fortunately, we were

16:24

able to get that from Emily and

16:26

had saved our lives. And

16:28

this is acting on a time scale

16:30

of hours a day. It's right. Yes,

16:32

I mean we literally she was in

16:34

Eyes You with Multi Organ today or

16:36

and we gotta. Love days

16:39

back that she had this thousand for it

16:41

was only one that was really actionable. As

16:43

a cytokine it was weary so far

16:45

out of whack like that and within

16:48

about six hours we able to get

16:50

i or be approval to give her

16:52

off label. There. And six

16:54

antagonist and a very within hours

16:56

and had sex on or was

16:58

really is anything as close to

17:01

a miracles university. And.

17:03

So the storm. The storm subsides. Within

17:05

hours of her getting the in an

17:08

antibody against I'll Six Court T cells

17:10

are doing their thing. How

17:12

quickly did you know that this had

17:14

work? So you know We went from

17:16

thinking that we had literally accelerator das

17:19

we thought she was gonna die. I'm

17:21

in a I see you people. And.

17:24

Never see you know that you get something

17:26

on Apache Score which is a combination

17:28

of all your vital signs oxygenation, and. By.

17:31

All of those standard. Frog.

17:33

Roster don't see. should have been dad. I'm in

17:35

an ass what they told us and then. Stephen.

17:38

Grub was the principal investigator,

17:41

a pediatrician, Who we you

17:43

know advised to gives you test or of

17:45

this and I'll sex because there's nothing else

17:47

we could come up with. When.

17:50

He walked into my eyes. You with a drug

17:52

get a never been given to an oncology peasant.

17:54

They. Said he was a cowboy. And. What?

17:57

you know? what was he doing given as drugs have

17:59

see what? The on a never and

18:01

now it turns out to solicit mab is

18:03

actually F D A approved for covered side

18:05

a kind of his syndrome. And

18:08

why do yeah is Bev randomized

18:10

trial showed a word during the

18:12

garbage pandemic. It's. Being given.

18:15

For many now kinds of sire

18:17

hyper inflammation like Guess Anda it

18:19

was just initially made to trade

18:22

or know arthritis Emily is treated

18:24

as many years ago now. Well.

18:27

To treated two thousand and twelve

18:29

so she's now been. We just had

18:31

like or eleven year celebration of cancer

18:33

free. And she is

18:36

now In about two weeks were

18:38

admitted in story of University of

18:40

Pennsylvania as a freshman. That

18:43

is a fantastic full circle moment done

18:45

yet. Signature. Work in

18:47

your lap. Well the She axioms. She's.

18:49

An issue environmental sciences and also filner

18:52

do that testing see would sing of

18:54

the debt as as soon as you

18:56

get away from by madison now the.

18:59

A normal college freshmen. A

19:01

fantastic and understandable. Yeah, One

19:04

of the things that's remarkable about what you

19:06

do with court T cell therapy. your sense

19:08

with taken out of a patient's immune cells.

19:11

Engineering and to recognize it's it's own cancer

19:13

and then confusing as back in you can

19:15

pick up a party cell therapy eight at

19:18

your local Cbs. Or this is obviously

19:20

something. It's very, very. Fault when.

19:22

You look at sort of the at the future

19:24

engineering cell therapies implies that you can eat a

19:27

raid on them. You can improve on them. In.

19:29

A were one of the vectors for innovation

19:31

that you see here is changed so much

19:33

since when we started. In a

19:35

weed we did in his sword spam and

19:38

never said it would be a commercial. A

19:40

pro drug registered and approves of purpose. Could

19:42

you retarded a cell or their evolved in

19:44

Us that a darwinian way to fight viruses.

19:47

Could. You turn into a cancer killer. And.

19:50

Never say dinner to go commercial book

19:52

and was so effective. That

19:54

that's what happened. As you know, there's now an

19:56

industry on that in. A And

19:59

what's happened senses. You know, our first

20:01

space Emily The in two Thousand and

20:03

Twelve that's the year, The Jennifer Down

20:05

and Sharp On to a published crisper

20:07

cast. Nine. Isn't.

20:09

So what's happened is we'd had. The.

20:12

Cell Therapy which is now a

20:14

burgeoning industry. But his orthogonal. Gene.

20:16

Editing abilities to rewrite with thrive

20:19

and In Base added a cast

20:21

nine and that gives us. This

20:24

huge runway of. Synthetic.

20:27

Enhancements of t sound function

20:29

that obama improve potency and

20:31

safety. So. I'm totally

20:33

excited about the science. And

20:35

and in, oh, and we'd who did back

20:37

in two thousand and ten that first there's

20:40

there's only three labs are dent in a

20:42

world. Where. Dramas. And now

20:44

there's almost a thousand trials when

20:46

you look at clinical trials.gov. So.

20:50

The tools sad has has evolved

20:52

and amazing. Wait, I never would

20:54

have project this genome, rewrite, an

20:57

editing were says complimentary to the

20:59

south therapies and an innovation. Is

21:02

is. The sad part is going to

21:04

outstrip our ability to rapidly test and

21:06

find out what works. Now

21:09

the bottleneck it was. This bottleneck

21:11

was science and understanding, but now

21:13

it's there's eight hundred. Trials may

21:15

take time and but the open

21:17

each trousers time. But we have

21:19

this amazing. Set. Of Science

21:21

and of editions that are piling

21:23

up. Because. It's a lot faster

21:26

do experiments in mice that is to get

21:28

there. All the records war zones

21:30

are getting a trial been so. It's

21:32

gonna take I think the innovation is.

21:35

Gonna. Solve the barriers and solid

21:37

tumors because that's where I think

21:39

it's mostly engineering issues for for

21:41

cook for contacts so leukemia as.

21:44

A represent roughly ten percent of

21:46

all cancers. Be. Sort of on

21:49

address. Ninety percent of of cancer are

21:51

solid tumors, organ based tumors, What

21:53

are some of the barriers that

21:55

exists today? One barrier in solid.

21:58

Tumors. Is. Not.

22:00

Having an ideal target like see

22:03

nineteen. So. Please identify what to

22:05

go after What made up his hands on

22:07

tumor unique and so an unfortunate was not

22:09

one target right now. That. We're

22:11

dogs were all solid tumors than I

22:14

got cancer but I didn't get that.

22:16

Will have a warehouse of targeting. Constructs,

22:19

That there's no was for air base

22:21

granted kind of tumor and then. The

22:23

other issue is this issue to have. Either

22:26

penetrating and getting into the tumor.

22:29

Or. Once the T so gets in a tumor.

22:31

Continued. To work and not get

22:33

shut down by the jeweler. And

22:36

get which is probably tumors develop

22:38

essentially a barrier right or a

22:41

hostile environment. To the me

22:43

insisted that she will babbel. So some

22:45

of them literally have cited Castle When

22:47

a Mode System Amaker Sarcoma Some some

22:49

Packer adage answers have this: Impenetrable

22:52

at, you know, even antibodies don't

22:54

put wired of using doesn't work

22:56

well on neither does. As

22:58

cel moving into i am so that's a

23:00

barrier and then. Again, there's another

23:03

issue, which is. The. Tumor

23:05

microenvironment can be toxic are

23:07

usually is. Is said an

23:09

egg and hypoxia and and said the

23:11

way around that is to and essentially

23:13

arm these cells with the ability to

23:15

to navigate and and survive in this

23:18

society Cost a varmint. Yeah.

23:20

So there's many examples now where you

23:22

can. Use. Various approaches to

23:24

target into the to Wear Your

23:26

Name once they're in their the

23:28

another metabolic rewiring of Rogers. She's.

23:31

Our can adapt and to their with

23:33

the tumor microenvironment as which is not

23:35

the same as a limb or when

23:37

snowden which is favorable for t cells.

23:40

these are significant challenges but ones that

23:42

at least there's the promise can be

23:44

addressed with the various tools. Are

23:46

to to you. I'm optimistic give

23:48

a damn that they'll be overcome

23:50

such as excited as but shield

23:52

as rabbit Very rapid preclinical develop

23:55

our where are we on the

23:57

journey? Have been able to think

23:59

that can. There might. Someday.

24:01

Be. A. Manageable chronic condition

24:03

where it's not fade or something. You

24:06

don't die from cancer, You'll die with

24:08

cancer. I'm hoping there would you

24:10

nurture get to where we cure cancer within

24:12

a day or other approaches? I'm in one

24:14

is as you said you know whether to

24:16

turn into a chronic disease, Where the. And.

24:19

Keeping it in at bay

24:21

and another is a cancer

24:23

interception approaches where. Consigned:

24:26

To. Answer: Before it becomes clinically

24:29

evident blood biopsies, then they're

24:31

much more susceptible vaccine approaches

24:33

and. And. Don't require such

24:35

heavy duty approaches as when you have

24:37

someone with an advanced stage cancer. so

24:39

I think. You know we're

24:42

going to see early stage diagnosis. An.

24:44

Interception and then even vaccine of people at

24:46

risk. That leaves us with great hope. It's

24:48

remarkable would you and your team has have

24:50

done to contribute to the tool chest with

24:52

so therapies that gives to me to be

24:54

pope and and of the will continue to

24:56

do so. Let me ask you one final

24:58

question. What are you wish? that. More

25:01

people knew about cancer.

25:04

And our efforts to treat cancer because this is a

25:06

disease that. Unfortunately will directly

25:08

or indirectly touch. Most. Of

25:10

us were I wish they knew. are you know

25:13

it will. We have to blame ourselves that we

25:15

have an educated the public. So.

25:18

Would I think we need is delayed tablet

25:20

needs to know that. In

25:22

nineteen hundred and number one cause

25:24

of death was tuberculosis. And.

25:27

Then in ancient city Nice. Born Ninety

25:29

two to three, The number one cause

25:31

of death was heart disease. The.

25:33

Farm and industry had not sugar. Now

25:35

with their turn what his cholesterol matter

25:38

and all this radically change that. And

25:40

how much the lifespans gonna know

25:43

what happened with covert because of

25:45

all the basic science research? What's

25:47

the public needs? Understand that. You.

25:50

Know cancer gene be saw but it's gonna

25:52

take research. People. Just you know,

25:54

unless you're in the medical field, the

25:56

people don't understand how much light is

25:59

radically changed. Darn in a research. The.

26:02

And and we need their more than

26:04

ever now because it were within grasp

26:06

it is. It's no longer heart diseases

26:08

like it was now, it's cancer of

26:10

them study dimension. You know,

26:13

issues that were we looked at as unsolved

26:15

health care issues. Ah well.

26:18

Thank. You Carl for for joining us today and

26:20

more importantly thank you for all the work you and

26:22

your colleagues have done. To. Push the

26:24

frontier. On what we can do and

26:26

cancer and hopefully we have this conversation fifty years

26:28

from now. Cancer will be a foot

26:30

that. Dress sense or

26:33

her. Please.

26:36

Note: Thirty six teams he invested in:

26:38

Community Doctor June as an individual, equity

26:41

holders, community and inventor As and the

26:43

technology license to teeny. Thank

26:53

you! Been listening to raising. Raising. Another

26:55

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26:57

Olivia Lab with the help of the bio

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