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BBC sounds, music, radio,

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pod casts. It's

1:00

a bright and very breezy

1:02

day on Orkney. I think the wind never stops

1:04

blowing, but slightly less swindy

1:06

than the two walks that I have so

1:09

far had. It's my third and and final

1:11

chance to really explore and I come to

1:13

the northeast side of

1:15

mainland Orkney to

1:18

another ancient monument, the

1:20

block of Gurness, which was a

1:22

a very large tower

1:24

like structure. Now about

1:27

all probably the bottom fifth

1:30

of it still remains and the foundation's

1:32

all around of a of a village that was once

1:34

here, a meeting, Steve Jenkinson

1:37

here who's an expert in in

1:39

dog behavior. Human behavior

1:41

as well interestingly, but It's dogs that

1:43

we're gonna discuss because this is subject we've

1:45

never really explored on And

1:48

so many people get go walking

1:51

because they have a dog. And you need to have

1:53

control and indeed for your dog

1:55

not to worry animals. So lots to discuss

1:57

with Steve, but I gotta find him first.

1:59

And that means picking my way through

2:02

these ancient ruins, and it's a bit like

2:04

lots of ditches around. So you

2:06

know those games you had on your did where

2:08

you had to get the ball

2:10

bearing, the little steel ball through the channels

2:13

and you were tipping it and sliding

2:15

it and take different routes. It's like that.

2:17

It's like a maze to try

2:19

and find him. And I think he and teal

2:22

are gonna be in side the rock.

2:24

So to duck

2:26

our heads to get in through the doorway. Hi,

2:29

Steve. Oh, hi. I've got teal

2:36

is a bright orange and

2:39

with white chest. She's a duct tolling

2:41

retriever.

2:42

Steve, what a place to come and meet you and

2:44

quite an adventure finding you, but at least you've

2:46

got protection when? Absolutely.

2:48

I'd say this is a a typical omni

2:50

dog walking day, and this is one of the

2:52

places I love coming in winter when there's a real

2:55

blow on like today. Because actually,

2:57

often people think about walking their dogs and they just need

2:59

to do miles and miles and this sort of thing, but actually

3:02

stimulation in all these forms is what dogs

3:04

really like. As you walk through, you've

3:06

seen there's like fourteen prehistoric

3:09

houses around here with lots of little nooks

3:11

and crannies. Letting a user brain and

3:13

a nose to find things is really really

3:15

stimulating. And as you say, we're out of the wind

3:17

now, and you can just have a nice time.

3:19

This structure, so we're inside the main

3:21

power of the of the block

3:23

now. Yeah. And as a I was

3:25

trying to describe the the

3:27

height and the width of the walls because

3:30

they're probably

3:31

in parts maybe up to ten feet high

3:34

-- Sure. -- is

3:34

left, but the width of them

3:36

is probably eight feast, isn't it?

3:38

000, the walls. Yeah.

3:40

I mean, you can just see behind us. You can

3:43

see how they're double skinned. Yeah. And there's actually

3:45

a wall walkway through them, and here you can

3:47

see the steps going up the side.

3:49

So certainly on this one, there was another

3:51

level. But Brock said

3:53

I saw shroud in a lot of mystery. And if

3:55

you look online, you can find out lots of

3:57

theories that nobody actually knows. But

3:59

what we do know is that people live tear and survived

4:02

here.

4:02

Do we have any evidence that those that

4:04

the ancient settlers had dogs?

4:07

Oh, absolutely. And in fact, you

4:09

when you drove in from Kirkwood, morning about

4:11

halfway through when you went through Fintech. Up

4:13

on the hillside there, there's what's called

4:15

Kueen Thum, but it's also known

4:18

as Thum of the dogs because they found

4:20

bones of dogs in there. And

4:22

and you you see a lot around Ormey. There's

4:24

the two of the Eagles, the two with the otters. So

4:27

obviously, all the natural world and,

4:29

if you like, domesticated animals, had

4:31

some meaning to them. We don't exactly know what,

4:34

but sometimes we go up to that one. It's a bit windy

4:36

for it today. And the great thing

4:38

is that some of these tombs, you

4:40

you crawl through a little passage and then you can see

4:42

the different sort of chambers. But

4:44

in ordinary, there there's just like a torch left

4:46

outside. So if you don't have one, you can just order

4:48

it, go in use the torch and put it

4:51

and it's left there.

4:52

The deal's looking at you. Just jump at your coat

4:55

going. Come on, dad. What are we meant to be doing? Do

4:57

you want to do one more

4:59

find for her? Sure. So

5:01

she's got stimulation. Absolutely.

5:03

So what I'll do See, I'll come here. You can

5:05

tell that she's just so keen to work, but that's

5:07

what we've read Venus dogs for. They love job.

5:11

So wait. Is

5:13

it? Wait. Good girl.

5:17

So I'm just throwing and these our old

5:19

gloves actually, just into some of the

5:22

different compartments of the block. In

5:24

other places, we can use smaller bits

5:26

put It's a teal a teal pop. Good

5:28

girl. Okay. Go see. She'll

5:31

have seen that. Is it sometimes

5:33

we can make it a bit a good girl. Thank you.

5:35

So she just brought it to my hand, and then we

5:37

can send her off for the other one. Till, go seek.

5:41

So because the wind's blowing around in here, you can

5:43

see that sent in, even though it's in the other side,

5:45

the wind's blowing around. So she's this

5:47

is why it's really good because she's having to work it out

5:49

herself. She said she went to one side and thought,

5:52

it's not here, but it's I can smell it. So

5:54

I'm just leaving to get on with it and use her

5:56

doggy superpowers. You're good girl. That

5:59

didn't take long. Where would you

6:01

where where are we planning to walk today?

6:04

So one of the favorite walks I like to do from

6:06

here is is do a little bit of work with Teal

6:08

in the block, and then we can walk along. It's

6:10

either known as Acresque l or easy beach and

6:12

there's a really nice broad beach there. Right.

6:15

We're gonna leave the rock in

6:17

the shelter and get out back into

6:19

the wind. Hey,

6:27

Tim.

6:31

So we are now walking south,

6:35

I think. Oh, wait. Yeah. Towards,

6:38

it is a beach down on our rice, and we got

6:40

across this river. Yeah.

6:44

You said earlier that you you didn't grow

6:46

up here. You grew up In the Penultimate.

6:49

Yeah. So I was born on the outskirts of

6:51

Bradford, and then my first career

6:53

was in the NHS that just outside

6:56

Skibbittan. So I was a man critical

6:58

physics engineer. So that's looking at things like

7:01

maintaining x-ray machines and body scanners

7:03

and all those sort of things. But

7:05

as a child that's still. My passion

7:07

was was for dogs and being in the outdoors,

7:09

but that wasn't kind of a proper job in

7:12

those days. You couldn't be

7:14

a I guess an

7:16

apprenticeship. Okay. So most important

7:18

part of the day too is just having a poo here, so

7:20

I'm just gonna get my bag out. Even

7:23

though it's on the seaweed, on to be.

7:25

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. In

7:27

fact, I'm not worried about picking up

7:29

and setting a good example because

7:31

we know that dog owners are most influenced by what

7:34

are the dog walkers do. A few years

7:36

ago, I was doing some work for Dublin

7:38

City Council. And I

7:41

got I was going around the Phoenix park,

7:43

and I got to my hotel in the evening. I thought,

7:45

gosh, I must have had an in something when I've been in this

7:47

range of land over all day. And then I

7:49

looked I've got my previous dogs poo

7:52

in my pocket. I've been on three flights from

7:54

here because from here, I know.

7:56

But mean, that's my my badge of honor,

7:58

really. And I I just if anybody listening

8:01

was on that flight, my apologies to

8:03

them. Oh. Good

8:05

girl.

8:07

So Tila's speaking because it's just not that

8:10

last night. Wait. Just watch

8:12

that deal. Oh,

8:14

is she

8:14

oh, you're old in it? A place at

8:16

all. Oh. No.

8:19

No. Tea or good there.

8:22

But yeah, the general message is always ways

8:24

pick up. So don't stick and flick.

8:26

Absolutely. I mean, in the past in some of

8:29

in places, it's talked about, you know, flick

8:31

it off the path. But we know now that

8:33

that there why the whilst the thing with

8:35

dog poo for the most part is actually just it's

8:37

really unpleasant for people both to walking, but

8:39

if someone's got a child or a mobility

8:42

scooter or a prowl It's just really horrible to get

8:44

that off. But we also know now that

8:47

dog poo can also carry diseases that make

8:49

cattle aboard or cause brain disease in

8:51

sheep. So in the past people have

8:53

thought, oh, if there's, you know, sheep or cow poo

8:55

there, why does it matter? But it does.

8:59

So just getting into that habit is important.

9:02

And also some of the chemicals that we use when

9:04

we were warming our dogs. Again, those are good

9:06

not to believe in in the outdoors. And that's

9:08

not getting at Dogwalk, because it's just thinking about

9:10

all the things that we're now aware of that in our

9:12

everyday lives. How can we do things

9:14

just a little a bit different to make, you

9:16

know, places better for people and nature.

9:21

Come down onto the beach and and the

9:23

wind has really picked up, but the pile

9:25

of kelp on the left is

9:28

like a

9:28

mountain. And that's great

9:30

fertilizers. mean, that's real industry.

9:33

Absolutely. Until relatively

9:36

well, even today, you'll see some farmers

9:38

just coming down picking up call it tangle

9:40

here because the kelp has that really

9:42

fixed them and and then the more sort of

9:45

flowery bits here to your gourfudge. Yeah.

9:48

And they'll use it as fertilizer sizes, but also

9:50

it used to be dried and shipped out. They

9:52

used in making things like

9:55

iodine and all sorts of chemical

9:57

the street.

9:57

Teal, Kirsty. Pen of the hailstorm,

9:59

and then come again now. I'll turn

10:02

our backs to it. You

10:04

can hear it on the on my jacket. It'll

10:08

blow through quickly. I'd say that

10:10

from experience. Yeah. At it. We can see

10:13

the sunshine behind

10:14

it. Look at

10:16

that. How double Coke

10:18

must be a real blessing. I'm upset

10:20

absolutely and the

10:22

web feeds as well. And I just live the

10:24

connection with Scotland as well because

10:26

Nova Scotia is just lapping 4 New Scotland,

10:28

so just like have New England. Nova

10:30

Scotia's new Scotland. Nova

10:33

Scotia ducks having retriever to give

10:35

her full

10:36

title. Yeah. Good girl. So

10:39

4 the way through a bit of a river that

10:41

that's channeling into the sea. I

10:44

can't quite tell how deep it is, but where he's

10:46

at the place. Fast.

10:58

It's glowing really fast. And

11:00

now we got this last expensive, a

11:03

beach. See

11:05

we didn't count all over it and

11:08

this is just a big playground for

11:11

the teal. That hailstorm has pretty much

11:13

gone through and the sun's coming out So

11:17

you were talking about your upbringing in Yorkshire

11:20

and you started to say about,

11:22

you know, wanting be outside and wanting to

11:24

deal with dogs. Yeah. And,

11:28

yeah, I mean, the hospital I worked out as well was

11:30

just at the of the old Shaddell, so it was always

11:32

there. And

11:35

then I ended up looking around

11:37

for different jobs and got a job with a rights

11:39

of way office and that was great

11:41

because he included everything from the Pin

11:43

nine Way to a little path in and

11:45

around where people live. And then

11:47

eventually actually, I felt

11:50

that this was such a brilliant job, but

11:52

there wasn't actually that much communicated

11:54

about it. It was when Tom in

11:56

in the background, if you like. Oops. Let's

11:59

just go over this. Yeah. Yeah. Some more

12:01

tango. Cheese

12:03

pop up. You can just see up

12:05

ahead. There's some wading birds. Uh-huh.

12:08

And even though the tide is going out, it's

12:11

just good for them not to be flushed because this

12:13

time of year, can actually be quite

12:15

hard for them to get all the food they want. So

12:18

she's had her run, but I saw the birds up in

12:20

front. We can just see them just along

12:22

the edge of the water feeding. So

12:24

just to give them a chance, I'll just pop

12:26

tea along the leach. She's fine. She's been having her

12:28

over and about. I

12:30

guess I can be a bit flustidious

12:33

about this because I'm not somebody who could be

12:35

working with Carolingle though,

12:37

whoever saying that this is what dog walkers

12:39

to do and not doing myself. What's your official

12:41

up title. Well, I 4

12:44

the Kettle Club, I'm calling their access and countryside

12:46

adviser, but I'm I'm self employed.

12:50

I'm just specialist in managing dogs in

12:52

the outdoors. Uh-huh. And I work for

12:54

a range of people. The most rewarding

12:56

clients that I work with with the the ones who just

12:58

see nuisance in dog walkers. And

13:01

then actually, once we've worked through plan

13:03

with them, to help them engage with the dog

13:05

owners, you know, they they really turned

13:07

around. A really good example

13:10

of that down in Dorset. So there's a project

13:12

called Dorset Dogs, which is all

13:14

about working with Dog owners, but to

13:16

make places better for nature. Whilst

13:18

there were concerns about

13:21

on Heathlands, about ground nesting birds,

13:24

the more devastating things that

13:26

wildlife. There are actually fires, and we

13:28

saw in COVID, people going out with

13:30

disposable barbecues and fires happening.

13:33

That actually recruited the top walkers

13:36

to be extra eyes and ears to be looking out for

13:38

people either having barbecues or fires

13:40

because speed is of the essence. And

13:43

one people might say, you

13:45

know, a dog running over where Virgin nesting

13:47

can be a problem, and indeed it can.

13:49

But far more devastating is a fire,

13:52

So, and who are the people who noticed this stuff

13:54

every

13:55

day? It's the dog walkers. Here comes

13:57

another little storm. Look

14:03

at the rainbow. Oh, cool. We

14:06

can see the froth arc of it. Just

14:10

hitting the water ahead of the Ireland. You're

14:15

listening to Ramblings on radio four and BBC

14:17

sounds. I'm on Orkney with Steve Jenkins,

14:19

and we've just taken shelter. As you

14:21

often have to do when walking here

14:23

so that we can hear each other and get out

14:25

of the

14:25

wind. We're leaning up against

14:28

a a stone hot that

14:30

used to be, I'm guessing the

14:32

sort of receiving station

14:34

for the pier that was here. Absolutely.

14:37

And before we got the improved

14:39

areas. There was a a small sailboat that

14:41

took the post a few times a a

14:43

week over Torelsi, and it came into to

14:45

this pier and just went across the sound.

14:47

And stuff would be left in this building or

14:49

sometimes the boat.

14:51

Let's talk about dogs and farm animals,

14:53

so particularly cows and

14:55

sheep. And the core wondry

14:58

for crossing a field of

15:00

cows, which can be quite aggressive, and

15:03

and particularly if there are carbs in there

15:05

with the mums. What what's the

15:07

best policy and how do

15:09

you make sure

15:10

that generally, dog owners

15:13

understand what they should and should can do.

15:15

Yeah. It's quite a struggle and it's a really

15:17

important issue to discuss because we

15:20

know every year between four and six

15:22

people out walking usually with their dogs

15:24

killed and many more seriously injured by

15:26

interactions with cattle. And it's

15:28

something that hasn't traditionally been talked about that

15:30

much, but we know the figures and not

15:32

improving. In general, the

15:35

advice is have your dog and a leader around livestock.

15:37

That's a really good start point. But

15:39

We know that often the dog can be the focus of

15:41

the aggression and it and it's not bulls

15:43

generally. It's it's cows with calves. And

15:46

so the advice is if you feel threatened by

15:48

cattle or even sometimes horses if you've got to feel

15:50

where there's maybe some stallions or something like

15:52

that, is to release your dogs so you can

15:54

get to safety separately. Only

15:56

a couple of times that I, you know, when

15:58

Archie was around when we were cross

16:01

the the field of cows, And if

16:03

the two of us were walking him, I would say

16:05

to Alice, you'd go ahead to the other

16:07

side of the field, to the exit points. I

16:09

will wait here you call him and

16:11

he'll come as fast as he can to you and then

16:13

I'll walk across.

16:14

Yeah. That that seems that seems that

16:16

a great thing to do. You can see 4 some

16:18

people would say look at those responsible dog

16:20

owners. They're dogs off the lead English field of cattle,

16:23

and this is the difficulty that, you know,

16:25

a walker doesn't want to be injured with their dog

16:27

more than a farmer wants an incident, and it's having

16:29

a bit more of a intelligent nuanced

16:32

discussion. It's unfortunate that I

16:34

see on social media sometimes a lot of victim

16:36

blaming. So sometimes people say,

16:38

well, how stupid taking dog into a a

16:40

field of cattle. But actually, if you're doing a

16:42

circular walk, you you often can't

16:44

avoid it. And and sometimes as well,

16:47

you don't you know, the cattle will be there one day, sometimes

16:49

sheep, sometimes nothing. So the

16:51

reality because of actually the generally good

16:53

rights of access we we have in in particularly

16:56

England, Scotland, and Wales, less less

16:58

so in Northern Ireland. We need to be prepared

17:00

for that. So Some of

17:02

the good stuff that's happening, so particularly in and

17:04

around the Timmins Valley in places like that, there's

17:06

local Facebook groups where the farm is showing

17:09

where that that cattle are. And when

17:11

you give that information, the walk doc people

17:13

with dogs will say, okay. We'll just go a different way.

17:15

They don't want the hassle. So sometimes

17:17

it's just Assuming that dog walkers

17:20

are stupid or like in your case somebody with a

17:22

they could've take somebody could've taken a picture. And

17:24

so I'll look at that clear out there with a dog

17:26

running across the field. We're actually out they think,

17:28

wow, that's a really good way to deal with that

17:30

issue, which is helpful for the farmer

17:33

as well. And you know what your dog would do.

17:35

Again, yeah, the key message, dogs on the leader

17:37

around livestock, but release them

17:39

is threatened by cattle. Some of the

17:41

key things are Sometimes we're here to see

17:43

messages that say we'll stick to the path, which

17:46

can be important like if there's a crop and

17:48

often people will be following the the lines

17:51

on northern survey map. But don't

17:53

follow the path if that means going through the middle

17:55

of a flock of sheep or between

17:57

cows and their calves go round. That

17:59

shower has passed through. I think we can venture

18:02

back out into the into the wind.

18:04

Are we heading up the road and back on

18:06

the circular path or back the same way or what's

18:08

the The choice here usually, you

18:10

can carry just along the coast because as as the

18:12

tide goes out, you can get further towards what

18:14

they call the roost. This is where the big waves

18:17

are forming at the moment. See we had that we had another rain

18:19

day there. Really bright one this time. Oh, wow. You

18:21

know, often in Scotland, they'll say you'll get, like,

18:23

four seasons in one day and only you have that

18:26

in one hour. Yeah. And it's just been open

18:28

to that. And I think just working with the environment.

18:30

But, yes, I usually just start wander on here

18:32

and just go as far as I can in the

18:35

time and then and then walk back. Okay. Because

18:37

you see something different and also

18:39

one way you usually enter the Wyndham one

18:41

time you've got it on your pack. I

18:48

said I thought that storm had gone through. I was

18:50

wrong. But it's

18:52

that kind of rain that doesn't really feel wet

18:54

and also it's

18:54

behind. We've got the wind behind us and

18:56

the rain behind us, so it's it's alright.

18:59

It's alright. Okay.

19:07

Oh, good girl. You found it.

19:09

You are so clever.

19:16

Can I ask you personal because Shopee?

19:18

What what's been the the great the

19:20

moment and you

19:21

thought? This actually is the

19:23

answer to my happiness. This is what tiny.

19:26

To be honest, it's always been there. Yeah.

19:29

I think particularly as a boy. I was,

19:31

like, quite a at that time, would have been

19:33

seen as a weird kid because I wasn't in

19:35

the football, although all those sort of gym, what

19:37

we know now is gender stereotypes. I

19:40

just wanted to go out walking and be in outdoors.

19:43

And for for a time and at school,

19:45

that made me particularly open to be bullied

19:47

in this sort of thing. So I would also seek solace

19:49

in the outdoors and with my cog. Check

19:52

where you're getting good.

19:56

So that's always been there.

19:59

And that's what I find fascinating that

20:01

actually is that ended up turning into

20:03

to a job. But I think when

20:06

you're out with your dog and it's a bit artificial because

20:08

I'm talking to you today. But

20:10

the thing of about. I love about dogs is that they're

20:12

in the moment. You know, that there's this optimism,

20:15

particularly if you got something like a spaniel or

20:17

something which is like, whatever. But happened yesterday.

20:19

Today could be good. And I think they

20:21

instill that in you. And if you're focused

20:24

on your dog, when you're out,

20:26

it clears your mind. End. I find it

20:28

really hard to switch off. I used to

20:30

find the same with skiing, but actually

20:32

because you are focused on doing something,

20:35

everything else clears out of your

20:37

mind. So I think it's

20:39

that I can sometimes catastrophize

20:42

things. And even though just

20:44

I'm in my late fifties now, somebody said to me

20:46

the other day. Tell me, Steve, whenever

20:49

was anything that you did, such

20:51

that it didn't go well and it's like never.

20:53

It's like, well, BFNTS self because

20:56

often you can find you're supportive of other people,

20:58

but I think I've had to learn that

21:01

being a friend to yourself because be really important.

21:03

And I don't think we do that that much, but

21:05

I think, again, dogs can unlock

21:08

that. And,

21:11

yeah, that optimism of dogs

21:13

and it's like even if he has to do is a

21:15

bad day, I just want to do this

21:17

and think that's really really

21:19

refreshing. We know that some

21:22

people, though, a dog can

21:24

actually make them more stressed if they don't have

21:26

the time or they're worrying about the vet

21:28

bills and this sort of thing dog shouldn't be seen

21:30

as a

21:30

panacea. But equally

21:32

4 some people, I think it

21:34

really it really helps. And

21:36

it creates a community of friends.

21:39

Often, you know, your dog will introduce

21:41

you because it will go straight onto

21:43

other dogs and sniff their buttons. You

21:47

don't need to be copying that behavior, but

21:51

you do then suddenly you start to know the dog's

21:53

name, then you meet people, then your parts

21:55

of that is created by

21:57

your dog. So it's not it's

21:59

a different group of friends. It's not because of

22:02

age group or background or education or

22:04

the job it you

22:05

too, just as your dog. Yeah.

22:07

I mean, dogs are a great leveler. We'll

22:10

see I like it when you when you

22:12

look at cruf over the different

22:13

days, you see people. Even with Breeze,

22:15

you'll see a certain breeze like Gundog Day, you'll

22:18

see

22:18

certain poo. And it is a great leveler.

22:20

And in fact, with having teal, because

22:23

I tend not I used to fly a lot off the island

22:25

because on here we use small planes

22:27

like you would at a train. But

22:30

because I tended not to have a dog with me,

22:33

But now during COVID, I travel less, but

22:35

III drive and I take deal with me,

22:37

that it's made that engagement with dog owners.

22:41

Amazing just I mean, look, that

22:43

dogs just run, rolling on the back on the

22:45

beach. How could anybody be be

22:47

miserable when you see that? This is

22:49

joy to be. You'd be able to And

22:53

and interestingly, I

22:55

before I was taking tea out and so I had to be

22:57

quite careful because if you're a middle

22:59

aged man hanging around car parks

23:01

or green space is not apparently doing anything

23:04

even though I was surveying and see

23:06

looking at exciting like dog poop bins

23:08

and signage panels and recycling. People

23:11

will be concerned. Oh, it's like,

23:13

that's a bit strange. But when I've got a dog with

23:15

me. He's like, oh, hello. And you I mean,

23:17

you get a a nod and

23:20

a hello. The other day, I

23:22

found it quite interesting. I was commuting into them

23:24

with teal. And you notice, like, on the

23:26

commuting. It's like, it's particularly in London.

23:28

You know, eyes away. Don't make iron contact with

23:30

people. And then slowly because steel

23:32

was sat in my feet. All of a sudden, it's

23:35

like, I'm gonna make eye contact with the dog.

23:37

And then, oh, I can make eye contact

23:39

with the person that it's with. And then

23:42

we weren't having a conversation, but you would

23:44

see a smile. And I think there was

23:46

whole things about not

23:48

feeling isolated and feeling

23:50

part of a community and that somebody

23:52

cares is really

23:55

really important. This is nice, Teals

23:57

just having a a drink here.

24:00

This is fresh water that's flowing down a little

24:02

bit peachy, but it's okay. But one

24:04

of those things again to be thinking about is

24:06

not all water that we see outside. Side

24:08

some of these things, algal blooms, not not

24:10

this time of year, but it can be concerning.

24:13

So just thinking about where your dogs have been a

24:15

a drink but this is fresh flowing burn.

24:18

We just need to be a bit careful crossing back over

24:20

this to you. She's gonna have another

24:22

little role there. She just so

24:24

happy. And that's what I love

24:26

about being on a walk with dogs. At all

24:28

times, they'll just make you smile

24:31

because they're they're having

24:33

fun. It's been really great to share this

24:35

with you until thank you, Steve, and thank

24:37

you. Good luck with all the work you're doing and

24:39

just keep being let's all be more dog.

24:42

Hey, yeah, I think he absolutely.

24:45

Thank you. Have a let's get across this burn

24:47

and and and get back to the car.

25:03

Audio journals from the Pacific Crest

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This is what I wanna offer you in my new

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