After the successful start of the series yesterday, the second podcast is just as interesting and worthy of listening to. The next two guests will be familiar ones for those who have stayed up to date. Executive producer of Eurovision 2021 Sietse Bakker joined us in Het Nieuwe Instituut, to talk about how he experienced preparing for this event in the past two years. The second guest's work might be more famous now than she is, Madje Vollaers of VollaersZwart joins the conversation. She talks about how she came up with the term ‘citydressing’ and what it does to Rotterdam and its citizens.

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