0:34

I am joined today by Rodney Norman

0:36

, who is a motivational comedian

0:38

. Rodney , good morning .

0:41

Good morning . Good morning , thanks for

0:43

having me .

0:44

Sure , you're an an exceptional

0:46

guest in the sense that this is a little different

0:48

than what I usually do on the show , um

0:51

, but I'd like to ask you a question

0:53

. Uh , how

0:55

is today ?

0:57

How is today ? Today is

0:59

awesome . Today is the most important day of

1:01

my entire life , cause it's the

1:03

only day I can do anything with .

1:05

Yeah , let me tell

1:07

you how I came upon you . I

1:10

, in my profession , clinical

1:12

psychology . We're currently undergoing

1:14

the worst thing in the world . None

1:17

of us have been paid for two months

1:19

. This huge cyber attack

1:21

, this giant processing

1:23

software , froze all

1:25

payments for every

1:27

therapist , medical professional

1:29

, private doctor . Many hospitals

1:32

are going out of business and it's

1:34

like this crisis for everybody . It's

1:36

a dark time and I had been

1:39

going through Instagram and I saw

1:41

one of your messages and

1:43

you were wearing a mellow yellow shirt

1:45

and you said there's

1:48

a lot of bad stuff , but there's some good stuff

1:50

too . And you struck

1:52

me as a cross between

1:55

Gandalf and Jerry

1:57

Garcia . Have

2:01

you ever heard that before ? And it was just what

2:03

I needed .

2:06

I'm pretty much a Rorschach test

2:08

for everybody who sees me , because

2:11

whoever it is I remind them of that has

2:13

a beard , says something about their personality

2:16

.

2:16

Tell us about yourself . I know nothing about

2:19

you . Where are you from ? What are you about ?

2:22

I grew up in Utah , I have

2:24

a background and got a degree in philosophy

2:26

. I was in the Marine Corps and

2:29

I've been doing stand-up comedy for 26

2:32

, 27 years now and

2:34

I just took all these things I enjoy and

2:36

mixed them together and started

2:38

having fun making some videos just to get

2:41

people to chill out and enjoy life . We

2:44

shouldn't be running around just being mad

2:46

, miserable about everything all the time .

2:48

You've got a point there . Obviously , that

2:51

resonates with people . You've got about a half a million followers

2:53

on Instagram . That's pretty substantial

2:55

, and you're in Connecticut now .

2:58

Yeah , right now I'm in Coeur d'Alene

3:00

, Idaho . I

3:02

live in Connecticut .

3:04

Where brought you to Connecticut ?

3:08

In the comedy game , you either have to be

3:11

in New York or LA to

3:13

get any acknowledgement , and

3:17

so we didn't want to live in New

3:19

York City , so we settled

3:21

in Connecticut 20 some odd

3:23

years ago , and then

3:25

it turns out just making videos in my backyard

3:28

is what got me . I could have just stayed in Utah

3:30

.

3:33

Do you remember the first video you ever made ?

3:35

I've made videos , several over the years

3:37

. I remember I started doing this video

3:40

series with my kids back when YouTube first

3:42

started , where I made instructional

3:45

videos for my kids important lessons

3:47

like how to turn

3:49

off a light switch , how to put the vacuum away

3:51

when they were done using it , how

3:53

to shut cupboard doors and

3:56

it was just a fun

3:58

silly thing we did and then somebody else started doing silly thing we did

4:00

. And then somebody else started doing

4:02

the same thing and he became famous from

4:04

it and I just looked like I was hacking

4:07

, even though I was doing it before he did . But

4:10

so that was my first lesson in doing

4:12

videos is you got to get there

4:14

first , but I just I

4:16

played rather than didn't really do much with it

4:18

. And then one day , during the , during

4:20

the thing , you remember the thing that we

4:23

went through all together , collectively , a few

4:25

years ago .

4:25

Yeah , I remember various things and a

4:27

big . Thing .

4:29

Yeah I , my work got canceled so I'm

4:31

sitting around nothing to do . So I just

4:33

started making silly videos and one

4:35

of them just blew

4:38

up and took off and then people

4:40

started paying attention . So then making videos

4:42

is a little more fun when people are actually

4:45

going to see them .

4:46

So Rodney , what is egging

4:48

America right now , Our collective

4:51

consciousness ? What do you see as the fundamental

4:53

problem in the way people are living their lives ?

4:56

I think the biggest thing is fear . They're just

4:58

. We see all these wars popping up , we

5:00

have everybody fighting over

5:02

politics and everything else

5:04

, and it's easy to

5:07

feel like this is a daunting

5:09

task that we're having to take on

5:11

, and in reality , the

5:15

world's been doing this forever . This

5:17

isn't anything new , it's not ? Oh , this

5:19

is extraordinary times . No , it's

5:21

all been extraordinary the whole time

5:23

we've been here . Life is extraordinary

5:25

and you should just be enjoying it , and

5:27

most of the stuff that's going on has

5:30

very little to do with us

5:32

and there's very little that

5:34

most of us could do anything about it . If

5:36

we can , I hope you're doing something , but

5:38

if there's nothing you can do , enjoy

5:43

your life and do what you can do in your life . If you take

5:45

care of yourself and those around you , then

5:48

the rest of the world doesn't have to pick up the slack . I

5:52

guess that's the message I'm trying to share with people

5:54

.

5:54

And I love how general I

5:57

think the incisiveness of some of your messages

5:59

lies in the general right

6:01

. You say do stuff be strong

6:04

, and so forth , and are you informed

6:06

by Albert Camus ?

6:08

What's that ?

6:09

Are you informed by Camus ? You

6:12

said you have a history background or a philosophy

6:14

background , and you seem to use a lot

6:16

of absurdism , as many

6:18

comedians do oh yes

6:20

, camu , yeah , camu , nicha

6:23

, really the whole gamut , because

6:25

because , yeah , life is absurd , but

6:27

it's also meaningful .

6:29

There's a lot of meaning and there's a lot of purpose

6:31

to all this and it's just a lot of it is

6:33

that it's and the reason I keep my videos

6:36

fairly general is that

6:38

I'm allowing

6:40

people to interpret it the way they want and

6:43

what they need at the time . And I've had

6:45

people tell me they've watched the

6:47

same video two years apart

6:50

and it hit them differently the second

6:52

time because it was a different message , but

6:54

it was the same video , but

7:06

it was the same video and it's really just capturing an idea in a moment that people can use whenever

7:08

they need it , you hear what you need to hear when you

7:10

need to hear it , and

7:14

I love creating things

7:16

that do that for people . It's

7:18

a lot of fun .

7:20

A lot of what I've seen of your work draws

7:24

out the absurdity of

7:26

depressive and anxious despair

7:28

.

7:29

Can you ?

7:29

shine a light as to how absurd it is . Life

7:32

will either go on and usually it does

7:34

and eventually it doesn't for everyone

7:36

, and so why ? Despair is

7:38

basically your message .

7:39

Yeah , oh , absolutely

7:41

. Yes , yes , we're all . I hate , I'm

7:44

sorry for the spoiler alert , but we all die

7:46

at some point in time . This is all

7:48

going to be over , and so , while

7:51

you're here , it's a beautiful

7:53

gift , whether you believe it's from a wise

7:55

, kind God that created for us

7:58

, or if we're just a bunch of happy accidents , that

8:00

the universe just fell together and this happened

8:03

and here we are . Regardless , it's

8:05

amazing that we're here . Life is an amazing thing

8:08

. You should be enjoying every minute of it . For

8:10

all of its craziness , absurdities

8:13

, you should still just love it

8:15

for what it is , even the

8:18

absurdities .

8:19

What do you do on the rest of your spare time , when

8:21

you're not humorizing existence ? I

8:24

take a lot of naps .

8:29

No , I like to work out

8:31

and exercise most of the time whenever I

8:33

can . I enjoy just spending time

8:35

with my wife , and now our kids are grown

8:37

up and they've moved on , it's

8:39

just the two of us and we're

8:41

having fun because we still like each other , and

8:44

so that's nice . I do a lot of reading

8:46

and writing I'm looking forward to

8:48

. I've got so many different projects

8:51

I've got going

8:53

that are half baked and none of them are . I

8:55

got a lot of irons in the fire and

8:57

none of it , and none of it's very hot

8:59

, and so I need to take my own advice

9:01

.

9:03

It's our pokies against something , but what

9:05

are you going to be doing , upcoming that people can pay

9:08

attention to ?

9:09

I'm . I'm touring currently . Like I said

9:11

, I'm a standup comedian , so I'm doing

9:13

shows all over the country . I'm in Montana

9:16

for the next couple of weeks and then we're in Utah

9:18

and then Pennsylvania and Maine and New

9:21

Hampshire and Massachusetts . Just

9:23

traveling , hitting everywhere I can , just

9:25

spreading the good news to

9:27

as many people as I can .

9:29

Spreading the good news , not like the other people

9:31

who spread the good news . Yes , so

9:35

people can find you at your website , is that

9:38

right ? Rodneynormancom , oh yeah . Rodneynormancom

9:40

, oh yeah .

9:41

RodneyNormancom . It's got

9:43

all my , all the stuff .

9:44

You can find all the social media links and all

9:46

that stuff and you'll be touring as long

9:49

as you can .

9:49

I assume Is that what you love to do yes

9:52

, absolutely , as I'm working

9:54

currently on a comedy special

9:56

and I'm hoping to shop that around

9:58

. Get that put

10:29

out somewhere significant so that

10:31

people actually see it .

10:33

I hope Netflix picks it up . Do you think they will

10:35

?

10:36

I don't know . They're a tough nut to crack , so we'll

10:38

see .

10:41

Rodney . So , in terms of the

10:43

way people are living their lives day to day

10:45

now , you see fear as

10:48

a primary issue that

10:50

stops people from being able to

10:52

spread themselves across

10:55

existence as best they could

10:57

. And if

10:59

fear is the problem , what

11:01

is the antidote ?

11:04

It's love , it's finding those around

11:06

you and doing things to make their lives

11:08

better . And

11:10

the best way to overcome depression

11:12

, anxiety , fear is action

11:14

. It's just , it's do things , find

11:17

things that bring you joy

11:19

, and if you can't think of things that you want

11:21

to do for yourself , then look at others

11:23

and help them . I've seen a lot

11:25

of people find a lot of fulfillment in helping

11:27

others fulfill their dreams .

11:30

You like objects in motion , don't you ?

11:33

Absolutely . Just do . Just

11:35

keep doing things , whether it's reading

11:37

or you don't have to be running marathons

11:40

or climbing mountains . There's lots of things

11:42

that you can do that bring action

11:44

in your life Volunteer

11:52

, local charities , help feed the homeless , all kinds of things . You can go on United

11:54

Way and there's lists of organizations

11:57

that need help and you can volunteer and help

11:59

there . There's so many things that we

12:01

could do . We actually have too many options

12:03

. People think they don't have enough options

12:06

or they're limited . No

12:08

, it's unlimited what you could be doing

12:10

and the experiences you could have and the people you

12:12

could meet , and who knows where

12:14

those experiences and those connections

12:16

will take you . You just got to open

12:18

yourself up to it and appreciate and enjoy

12:20

it and do it .

12:22

Enjoy it and do it . So

12:28

you think maybe most people prematurely foreclose upon

12:30

and limit what their actual options are in their immediate surround ?

12:32

Oh , absolutely that's the biggest thing is

12:34

we stop from exploring

12:37

and looking at new

12:39

options and new opportunities

12:41

because we're so fixated on what

12:43

we wanted or what we expected

12:46

and we

12:48

leave ourselves closed off to so many

12:50

other possibilities and so many options . I

12:52

remember one time when I was

12:54

in high school my , my brother , who

12:57

was a couple of years older than me , was an amazingly

13:00

gifted and talented artist , a brilliant

13:02

artist at drawing

13:04

and painting , and

13:08

I took an arts class from one of his old teachers , and

13:11

I remember the day I was

13:13

sitting there and she you know , I was doing roll

13:15

call for the first time and she came

13:17

across my name when she saw Norman , she's

13:20

oh , are you Steven's brother ? And I'm like , uh

13:22

, yeah , and she goes I expect great things

13:24

from you . And immediately I just , you know all the blood just ran . I'm like , uh , yeah , and she goes I expect great things from

13:26

you . And immediately I just , you know , all the blood just

13:29

ran . I was like I'm gonna get an F in this

13:31

class because there's no way I'm ever

13:33

going to match his

13:36

abilities . And and

13:38

so I think I stayed in the class for just

13:40

a couple more days and

13:42

really started thinking what do do I want

13:44

to do ? I enjoy drawing , I enjoy art

13:47

, I enjoy painting , but not

13:49

to the level that he does . And so I thought what do

13:51

I want to do ? And

13:54

I talked to a friend

13:56

and he was telling me about being

13:58

in debate class and

14:01

I never thought about being in debate

14:03

and and I thought

14:06

, why not give it a shot ? So I joined debate

14:08

and it

14:11

turned into be one of the funnest

14:13

, most rewarding experiences

14:15

of of my young

14:18

life because it opened me up to

14:20

public speaking , competing

14:23

, and I got to meet so many different people

14:25

and it opened so many doors . It

14:27

really was my path and it was because I was

14:29

. I left myself open to try new things

14:32

. I and I've

14:34

just lived my life that way is that I'm

14:36

just open to just trying new things . Just

14:39

because I don't know them or understand them doesn't

14:41

mean I should not do it . You know , give

14:43

it a shot and Be willing to look like an

14:45

idiot . That's , I think that's . My greatest

14:47

asset , is that I'm perfectly

14:51

fine looking like a complete imbecile .

14:53

It strikes me that comedy is

14:55

inherently a debate . It's a debate

14:58

with the audience's presuppositions

15:00

as to what existence allows

15:02

them to be oh

15:04

, absolutely you are .

15:06

You hit it right there . I tell people

15:08

when they first start doing comedy how to write , because

15:10

that's the biggest thing is where do you come up with your material

15:12

, how do you write , what do you do , what do you talk about , and

15:15

I'll tell people . Find things that you hate

15:17

about life , 10 things that

15:19

bother you , and present

15:21

that you're going to be giving a case in court

15:24

and you have to list all the things

15:26

as to why this is horrible and should end whatever

15:28

it is Like . One of my things is

15:30

wheat thins . They're disgusting , horrible

15:33

things and I think they're bringing modern

15:35

culture to a complete standstill because

15:37

they are disgusting . So tell people

15:39

and put some passion and some emotion

15:42

into it , because really that

15:44

is that's what comedy is and some emotion into

15:46

it , and because really that is that's what comedy is .

15:47

All communication in some way is some sort of

15:50

a debate some

15:52

sort of a give and take and you have to be rather

15:54

subtle . I

15:57

think all comedians have to be rather subtle because in order

16:00

to target the

16:02

fault line in people's insistence

16:05

that everything is screwed and they

16:07

shouldn't bother , not being depressed or anxious

16:09

, you really have to hone in on

16:12

how people are structuring

16:14

their implicit argument that

16:16

they ought to imbibe

16:18

as much as they can into the

16:20

despair of existence . I have great

16:23

respect for comedians . Such

16:25

an intuitive grasp of

16:27

where people are teetering on the precipice

16:29

of . I could probably let that despair

16:32

go . This is all silly , and

16:34

to help them tip over the edge there

16:36

a little bit into fun , that really is

16:38

an art .

16:40

Yes , that's one of the amazing

16:42

things about comedy is that it's an opportunity to

16:44

really that's one of the amazing things about comedy is that it's

16:46

an opportunity to really , you know , make fun of the things that we

16:48

need to make fun of , the things that people

16:50

take too seriously . Those

16:55

are the things you want to make fun of . I remember one

16:57

time I was doing a comedy show and before

16:59

the show they came out with a list of things

17:02

that we were not allowed to talk about . Oh geez came

17:04

out with a list of things that we were not allowed to talk

17:06

about . Oh geez . And it just made me laugh because I was like

17:08

the true comic in me was looking

17:10

at this list , thinking , oh , I guess this is

17:12

all the things I'm talking about tonight .

17:17

That was when things started to come about . When they're trying to do the woke limitations

17:20

on comedy , is that what you're referencing ? Yeah

17:23

, don't talk about anybody in this group or that group

17:25

?

17:26

Yeah , It't talk about anybody in this group or that group . Yeah , see , it used to be the things

17:28

they would always say was no foul language . That

17:30

would be the list . Of these are the words you're

17:32

not allowed to say that list has now

17:34

gone into .

17:37

it's absurd , it's like it's

17:39

Soviet comedy . I've never heard of such a thing

17:41

. The what Imagine what

17:43

Soviet comedy would be would be oh yeah , I

17:45

can imagine . Yeah , it's it's

17:49

all just burps and farts at that point , yeah

17:51

sure there's only the only safe thing you can do now

17:53

in order to dwell in , in in

17:56

the absurd , to , to take

17:58

things lightly , and so forth . There's obviously

18:00

an undercurrent of seriousness

18:03

in any narrative

18:06

of that manner . Comedy

18:08

is an existential narrative . Right

18:11

, it is a particular through line

18:13

to be an existential narrative

18:15

and it has a humorous

18:17

delivery , but the

18:19

message is not

18:23

shallow . I imagine for

18:25

every comic there

18:27

has to be the contrast between

18:29

personal angst and

18:32

the comedic where you prefer to dwell

18:34

. How do you deal with

18:36

the moments in life , or can you tell us a bit

18:38

about your own moments in life where it's

18:41

not so comedic on first glance

18:43

? It's more personal angst . It's not so comedic on first glance .

18:47

It's more personal angst . Pretty much everything

18:49

is that way and

18:56

it really comes down to developing an overall attitude towards life in general , because

18:58

you can , if you focus on all the negative things . Like

19:01

we have a tire we're driving all

19:04

over the country , we have this tire

19:06

that keeps losing air , and

19:09

I bought one of those air pumps

19:11

that you can hook into your DC

19:13

outlet on your car , your cigarette

19:15

lighter . I

19:17

have to keep putting air in this car tire every

19:20

day and

19:22

it's very frustrating because we've taken

19:24

it into a place and they've found

19:26

a nail in it and they've patched it and we

19:28

thought , okay , that's solved

19:30

, yay , we can move on . The next

19:32

day it lost air again and

19:34

so we drove around

19:37

for a couple more days , just kept putting air in it , putting

19:39

air in it , and then we went

19:41

to another place to get because

19:43

we thought maybe the patch that the other place put

19:45

in did work . So we go in

19:47

. Well , it turns out it was a second

19:49

hole that developed . We got

19:51

another hole in that same tire . It

19:54

was a different piece of metal that they had found

19:56

, so they patched that hole as we

19:58

thought okay , now we are fine

20:00

, everything's great , we've got patch

20:03

holes . The

20:05

next day it's losing air , and it's losing

20:08

air even faster than it did before

20:10

. So we don't know if it's one of those holes

20:12

that popped open , we don't know if we got another

20:14

hole or if there's a whole different , other issue

20:16

. We don't know . But instead

20:19

of getting upset , bothered about it , we're

20:21

having fun deciding . We challenge

20:24

to see who can decide , who can figure

20:26

out how much air it's lost overnight . Are

20:29

we going to be down to 27 pounds

20:32

of pressure ? Is it going to be down to 19 ? Who

20:34

knows ? You

20:36

just have fun with it . So , instead of all

20:38

these little things in life that would normally upset

20:41

you and get you bothered , I say just

20:43

enjoy , make it fun . You know

20:45

what you deal with at work With

20:47

somebody who's just really a cantankerous

20:49

nincompoop , who's just an idiot

20:51

, who's just a horrible

20:53

, rotten , miserable person for whatever

20:56

reason . Instead

20:58

of getting upset about everything that they do

21:00

or that irritates you , I encourage

21:02

people enjoy how horrible

21:04

they are . You know , start keeping records

21:06

of how horrible they are . You know , start keeping records of how horrible they are . And then you find yourself

21:08

excited when they do horrible , terrible

21:11

things Because it's

21:13

oh . Here's another one from my case study

21:15

of horribleness of this

21:17

person from the office . And it also . It

21:19

changes you and changes your attitude

21:21

towards that person , because you realize that they're a human being

21:23

and they're going through difficult times and

21:25

that this is how they express themselves . And

21:29

instead of being upset by

21:31

finding the humor in it , you also

21:33

find the humanity in it . You start

21:36

to have an understanding , you start to become

21:38

more empathetic when you're looking at things

21:40

from a humorous point . Because

21:42

behavior we all behave horribly

21:44

many times , do silly , quirky

21:47

things , and

21:50

that makes sense to us but don't make

21:52

sense to other people . And when you try

21:54

to just enjoy how other

21:56

people are and their quirks

21:59

and their weirdness , you really develop

22:01

an appreciation for them . And that's

22:03

really is what you . When you look for the funny

22:05

and lies , you find acceptance and you find

22:07

kindness and you find peace .

22:10

It's so eloquently put and as you

22:12

were describing this , I was thinking

22:14

to myself . The humor

22:16

, the humoristic in

22:18

life , seems to me

22:20

to be the antidote for

22:22

narcissism . It requires

22:25

you to develop a frame of reference where you're

22:27

not the center of every

22:29

action and inaction and injustice

22:32

. You're rather a general

22:34

part of the overall landscape

22:37

. And the overall landscape is absurd

22:39

at times . It's unfair

22:41

, it's quirky , it's beautiful

22:44

, but you are unique

22:46

, but you're not necessarily the

22:48

assailed geocentric

22:50

feature of existence

22:52

. Humor can only exist when

22:54

people dislodge themselves

22:56

from a sort of pure centrality

22:59

in their own minds .

23:02

As I like to tell people you're nothing special

23:04

. We

23:10

all go through hardships , we all are experiencing difficulties , we all have

23:12

pains , we all have medical

23:14

problems , we all have health

23:16

issues , we all have money

23:19

problems . We all go through

23:21

all of these things . It's a part

23:24

of the human condition . You are not being

23:26

singled out . The universe does not hate

23:28

you . God is not trying

23:30

to destroy your life . You're

23:33

just a human being and none

23:37

of us are being singled out . We're

23:39

just . We're all miserable . We

23:42

all have miserable things happening to us

23:44

.

23:45

And when ?

23:45

when you and this is the other thing is you

23:47

, if you take yourself out of you , this

23:49

is what's happening to me , oh no , oh

23:51

no . Instead

23:53

, when you just start becoming an observer

23:56

of life and just

23:58

appreciate life for what it is and

24:00

who it is , and all these different things and all

24:02

of its very varieties , when

24:05

you start to appreciate that from that perspective

24:07

, you find you're just at more peace

24:09

. You know , because you're not trying to change

24:11

things , you're not trying to make things the

24:13

way you want them to be . When you stop

24:15

and just allow them to be what they are , you

24:18

find you learn more about yourself , you learn

24:20

more about life , you become more

24:22

empathetic , and again it's

24:25

getting away from that narcissistic attitude of

24:27

oh , it's for me , it's all about me , and no

24:29

one thinks that much of you

24:31

at all , because they're

24:33

too worried about themselves .

24:35

Rodney Norman , it's been a real pleasure to talk

24:37

to you . People can find you at RodneyNormancom

24:40

. They can also click the show notes

24:42

below . I'll have all of your details there

24:44

, your Instagram , your other social media links

24:47

, as well as your website and publications and

24:49

your tour dates , and I hope people check you

24:51

out . I think what you're doing is so important

24:53

and thanks for coming on . Real Clear .

24:56

Thank you for having me .