Marketing isn’t about optimizing paid ads, sending emails, etc. Marketing is no longer a volume game and the old marketing tactics that we’ve used in the past don't work anymore. It’s about passionately believing in your company’s message and getting others to believe in it too. In this episode, we chat with Justin Keller, Vice President of Marketing at Terminus. He has more than 15 years of marketing experience and previously held marketing leadership roles at Sigstr, Whil Concepts, Jazz.co, Visage, and ChaCha Search. We’re talking about why focusing on leads drives the wrong behavior for marketers, how to think about brand marketing, why shitty marketing needs to stop, and so much more.