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Real Marketing Real Fast

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Welcome to Doug Morneau’s Real Marketing Real Fast Podcast. Subscribe, Listen, and Learn to what’s working with Email Marketing, Email List Rental, Lead Generation, Online Marketing, Sales Automation, and Sales Funnels? What new technology, apps, and marketing tools are crushing it today? TWO Questions - “Are you ready for a business breakthrough, or are you just going to settle for more of the same?” - “What if all the barriers are imaginary?”


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Tips on how to improve email engagement with automated dynamic content with Matthew Dunn Campaign Genius is our latest project. And what Campaign Genius is it makes the visuals in an email do everything they possibly can. A couple of years ago they noticed a shift where the top behavior for email of interest is “Save for Later.” So, where Campaign Genius plugs into that behavior for marketers is in allowing them to keep the offer fresh. What we did for them was personalize every email image. The net difference was that the click-through rate on the A part of the campaign with personalized image content was 277% higher “The visuals are the content,” right? In fact, from a psychological perspective, they’re the primary content.  What I’m learning is that in companies of size, mid-enterprise and up, email’s still the old step-child channel, despite it being, as you said, the most effective. The budget’s still going to shiny new channels, and the old warhorse keeps plodding along and actually returning the best results. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Well, welcome back listeners, to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today, we’re going to talk about a very interesting topic. We’re going to talk about dynamic content within your email. So, would you like to have the ability to change an offer that’s in your customer’s email, even after they’ve opened it, on a daily basis, a monthly basis, or just at some point in time? My guest today is Matthew Dunn. He is the founder of a company called Campaign Genius, and the chief explainer at Say It Visually. Dr. Dunn is a serial entrepreneur and an executive with a wide range of experience. He has been a startup CEO, a Fortunate 1000 Senior Vice President, and CIO. He’s a Microsoft veteran, a consultant, and standards organization executive as well as a director and a university professor. He is a frequent keynote speaker, and Matthew is also an award-winning writer, director, designer, and inventor, holding over a dozen patents in diverse fields. As a keynote speaker and a panelist moderator, Matthew is known for making complex subjects clear and simple, and I’m sure you’ll agree after you listen to this episode, he’s done a good job here as well. He has had repeated engagements as a keynote summarizer, improvising the wrap-up for full-day conferences. Matthew holds the first Ph.D. in Digital Media, which he designed and completed at the University of Washington before the web was invented. He also holds a Master of Fine Arts from the University of Texas. He brings a unique mix of technical, business, scholarships, arts experience to the understanding of the cultural, business and technology landscape. So, I’d like to welcome Matthew Dunn to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast. Well, welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast today, Matthew. Matthew: Well, good morning Doug. It’s early for both of us, thanks for having for me. Doug: Great to connect. It’s funny how we talk about people on social media, and they’re not social, and we connected through social because I was using your tool, and I shared it with my email list, and somebody reached out to me. Matthew: Right, right. Yeah, they reached out, and they credited you. They said “Doug told me about this,” and I’m like “Oh, well I should reach out and go knock knock on LinkedIn and see if he’ll connect.” And the fact that we’re geographically close made it kind of extra fun. Doug: Yeah, it’s interesting. Like you said, we’re so close geographically, but I find lots of times people say “Hey, social media’s not working,” you say “Well, what sort of response or follow-up do you have?” And you obviously took the initiative, and this is proof that that actually works. Matthew: But you actually said “yes”, which doesn’t always happen, right? You said “yes” to the connection request. Doug: Well, why would I be on social if I don’t want to connect with people? Matthew: Fair. But how do you keep from being preyed on in terms of your connection and network? Not every request is neutral. Doug: No, that’s right. I take the low-hanging fruit, the ones that are obvious if I’m looking at it, but I have one of my EAs that I’ve trained on how to screen people and decide who gets in the network and who doesn’t. Matthew: Right, okay, yeah, yeah. Got you. Doug: So, we didn’t come together today to talk about social. We want to talk about your amazing tool that I’m using, and your background in email. So, do you want to share just a little bit of your background, how you got into the business that you’re in, and how you’re helping email marketers today? Matthew: Well, the background might take longer than we’ve got, but I’ve got a dual background in communications and technology. Actually, arts communications and technology. And I’ve got a very, very long-standing interest specifically in visual communication. I started a company over 10 years ago called Say It Visually because I was and still am convinced that we’re in the middle of a big shift from mostly text and print to mostly media and visuals. The more information you’re trying to take in, the more you’re likely to do that visually because it’s astronomically faster and more efficient in terms of getting to your brain. The specific thing we’re talking about today, Campaign Genius, is our latest project. And what Campaign Genius is, in a nutshell, is, let’s make the visuals in an email do everything they possibly can. Turns out, as old as email is, 20, 30 years depending on how you look at the clock, emails had the capability to be dynamic and changeable, in a way that’s almost never used. I can update an email that’s in your inbox. I can say the sale was 25% yesterday, and it’s 20% today, by re-writing the images that your email client fetches, and that’s what Campaign Genius does. It plugs in at that image block-level and says “Mr. Marketer, what do you want your customer to see in the emails that you sent?” Whether that’s today or last week. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Well, and it does it in an easy way. Obviously, for the techy people listening, they’re going “Hey, I know how to do that on the back end where I’m saving my images,” but it’s a pain in the butt to do that and get it right, and your system seems to make it so simple. Matthew: Yeah, we aim to make it simple, and really to make it data-driven. The old A/B image swap will change the .jpeg on the webserver, which would only get you so far in terms of scale. So, we sort of melded data-driven image writing with that whole store and fetch thing. So, easy example, if I put “Hey Doug, Hey Matthew” on the hero image that goes out to the two of us, that’s one thing. But if I’m going to change the 25%, 20% sale price that I mentioned earlier, at some point you really want to automate that. So, I describe it as image automation, not just change what’s being stored, change what’s being fetched. Doug: So why don’t we start with an example of somebody that you’ve helped with their email, using this tool to increase their sales, increase their open rates? We talked a little bit before we got on air about open rates, and I thought the statistics you shared around the long tail data in email from e-commerce or sales perspective were very interesting. Matthew: Yeah, thanks for remembering that. So, I’m going to blame it on cloud computing in part and maybe Gmail specifically. If you’re old enough, as some of us are, to remember when you worried about the size of our Outlook OSTs and PSTs, and you didn’t save right, and you didn’t save every message on the planet because at some point your hard disk was going to fall over, that’s kind of gone out the window. Doug: Yeah. Matthew: What’s the free tier of Gmail now? I think it’s 15G of cloud storage, and that’s just the free tier. Everybody’s a packrat. Everybody saves stuff for a lot longer than they used to. As I think I was mentioning to you earlier, the Direct Marketing Association, the DMA, does a survey every year about email behavior. A couple of years ago they noticed a shift where the top behavior for email of interest is Save for Later. “Oh, that’s really interesting. I should maybe consider buying that fishing rod.” Save. Why? “Because I’ll go look at it later and make that decision later.” I’m trying to plow through the infinite inbox, and I’m not going to get to that decision right now. So, where Campaign Genius plugs into that behavior for marketers is in allowing them to keep the offer fresh. If that fishing rod’s no longer available, then putting it in front of my face in an email message that I saved is a bit of a rotten trick, right? “Oh, what do you mean I can’t buy it? You just wrote this really compelling email,” – last week – “that talked me into it.” Why not change to the one that you do have so when I get to the message, I can still transact with you. I can still work on what’s possible with you. So, to the question you asked about who have we helped, we did a large campaign. I won’t name the customer because I don’t get to, but they were sending out a massive half-yearly sale campaign, I think closing in on three million people on the list. And they were A/B split testing Campaign Genius personalized images versus not. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the A group was 2.7 million and the B group without any Campaign Genius content was about a 10th of that, but enough to be statistically significant.  What we did for them was personalize every image. So, we had to be set up to manufacture a potential three million personalized images on the fly as people opened their email. A little bit of sweat watching the servers. Turns out it was fine. The net difference was that the click-through rate on the A part of the campaign with personalized image content was almost 300% higher. 277% to be specific. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Wow, that’s amazing. Matthew: Yeah. It’s a pretty big jump. Doug: So, how does that affect, because you brought up Gmail, so that’s a good topic because there’s lots of issues with Gmail. Matthew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Doug: How does that affect the ratio, the image-to-text ratio that they quite often will put into the spam filter? Matthew: Yeah, someone who does just image content is probably begging not to be looked at. So, at least in terms of current practices, there’s a balancing act between the written copy that’s got to be there in order to get in the inbox and the image content that you can continue to manipulate. You can’t change the body copy in an email after it’s sent or read. You can change the image content after it’s sent or read. That’s the net succinct difference. But from a human behavior perspective, critical thing. You’re going to look at the visuals first. You’re going to process the visuals first and faster. I can’t remember the study off the top of my head but I’m sure I’ve got it sitting in a blog post of files somewhere. Some company did a really nicely-crafted A/B study where all they did was flip-flop an email. The hero image on the top, copy and message below, and then the other version was copy and message on top, hero image below. It was close to a 300% difference in effectiveness. The visual first made the read and action rate go up. Why? We’re visual creatures, right? If we get meaningful things in front of our eyes, we’re going to process those first because that’s how we’re wired. Doug: Right, that’s interesting. I’ve never tested that, so that’s one of the things I haven’t tested, is an image at the top. What I try to convince my clients to do is not put their banner for the company at the top. Put it at the bottom, they already know who you are. You don’t need to rebrand yourself in front of your customers. Give them something of value up top. So, like you said, that something of value may be visually pleasing or enticing, opposed to a huge block of text. Matthew: I’m delighted to hear that you said that by the way, for a bunch of reasons. Don’t put the About You at the top, it ain’t about you. I was at an email conference earlier this year and there was this speaker, a really well-respected email designer, talking about the continued rise of visual content in email, right? In his niche. But what was funny as heck was that he unconsciously kept talking about the visuals and the content. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: That’s funny. Matthew: I said “The visuals are the content,” right? In fact, from a psychological perspective, they’re the primary content. They’re actually what you’re going to handle first before you get to reading. We put together an actual study, unfortunately, it’s not published yet or I’d give you the URL to it. But have you run into that very commonly used stat that visuals are processed 60,000 times faster than language? Doug: I don’t remember the numbers, but I do remember the stat that visuals are processed quicker, yep. Matthew: Right. You’ll see 60,000 a lot, you’ll see 10,000 a lot, depending on how god-awful the Powerpoint or the infographic is. It’s complete baloney. It’s unattributed. It’s actually based on a one-liner in a 3M presentation from the mid-90s, and seriously, it’s turned into an internet meme, that every marketer who wants to talk about visuals uses. Doug: That’s funny. Matthew: And it irked me as an academic. It irked me to see an unattributed stat on that important topic. So, I strapped on the typewriter and went back to grad school mode and dug into the research on how we process language, written language, and how we process visuals, and basically came up with a more defensible ratio. It’s somewhere between 6x and 600x depending on what bracket you put on a meaningful chunk of language and a meaningful chunk of visuals. Dramatically faster, no doubt about it. Not 60,000, but dramatically faster. Doug: Well, I mean, that’s the funny thing with marketers often, is we need to have these really big numbers, and that’s the conversation we have with clients when we’re looking maybe at their whole sales process and sales funnel. It’s like, you don’t need to get 500% improvement on anything. You just need to dial the metrics up a little bit. If you had a 2% better opening rate and a 1% better click-through rate and 0.5% better conversion rate, you’re talking to someone that’s got, your client example, three million emails, that’d make a huge difference to their bottom line. Matthew: Right. Doug: Doesn’t need to be 6000% or 60,000%. Matthew: Right. What’s the [inaudible 00:14:03]? If you’re working on a system and you improve it 1% every day, you’re something like 37x ahead at the end of a year. Doug: Yeah, yeah. I just want to be a little bit better today than I was yesterday. Matthew: Right, right. Yeah. Incremental improvement. And, you know, one of the affordances of email as a marketing channel is that measurability and iterability. Your customers on your list, your prospects on your list actually said “Yes, I want to hear from you, and I probably want to hear from you again or I wouldn’t have signed up for a list,” right? So, within the limits of their tolerance for too much, you’ve got that opportunity to improve, you’ve got that opportunity to cycle and make better. Measure, cycle and make better. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: So, can you walk our listeners through, because this isn’t a visual presentation… Matthew: Hey, let’s talk on audio about visuals, I love it. Doug: Yeah. Well, I interviewed one of the guys, we did a video, he said “Hey, we should do a video podcast,” and I interviewed him, this was the second time I interviewed him but we did it on video because he said some podcasters are not meant for video. I said, “Well, I hope I pass the test.” Matthew: What’s the line? I’ve got a great face for audio. Doug: Yeah, that’s right, absolutely. So, in terms of a practical way for someone who has an email list that wants to test adding visuals, like you said, being able to go into your subscribers’ inbox and change the visuals in their email. What would this look like, and what would be a good place to start? Matthew: Okay, well, I’ll talk from the perspective of the toolset that we make available. There are a couple of other companies that do similar things. They, frankly, tend to play with large enterprise customers with large budgets, and our target was a little more “Hey, shouldn’t everybody be able to do this?” Practically speaking, it’s not a question of what your email platform you’re using. Surprisingly enough, any email platform, even your desktop email, can handle sending visuals or dynamic visuals, and you’re just not doing it right now. So, Campaign Genius we specifically built to be platform-neutral. It’s literally copy and paste to get visual content into an email template or even an outbound email from the desktop. We took some of the simple stuff that doesn’t require a lot of design and configuration, and actually, believe it or not, it’s parked on our website, and all it takes is give us your email address so we can talk to you, and you can use the basic toolset for free. I forget what’s configured there right now, but that’s everything from countdown timers to live weather to live Twitter. I believe you used the live Twitter feed tile, didn’t you? Doug: I did. I used the live weather and the Twitter feed, and then I sent out an email today and I used a web shot because on Thursday I either podcast or promote my podcast, and I did a web shot of my podcast page. Matthew: Oh, that’s great. You may be literally the first user of that web shot feature, we just added that a couple of weeks ago. Doug: Oh I and also, because today, when we’re recording the episode, it’s Halloween, I included a spider that crawled across the bottom of the page, and I’ve already got some very interesting feedback from some people who don’t like spiders. Matthew: Spiders, right, right. But what will be interesting from a marketer’s perspective is are their numbers different from the inclusion of spider or web shot? The web shot you’re referring to, since people will be listening to this going “What in the heck is a web shot?” is you put in the URL of probably your podcast site, we actually screenshot that URL on a daily basis, so the email you send out will continue to change and show your current website whenever anyone opens it. That’s a great example of dynamic content changes. So, imagine you were running an e-commerce store. So, you’ve got a listener who’s selling something online. If whatever’s on sale shows up on your home page, then whatever’s on sale on your home page is going to continue to show up live in the inbox if you use that web shot feature. Doug: Oh, that’s a great idea. I hadn’t considered that, and I didn’t understand that the tool actually updated. I saw the Twitter feed update because I thought “I’m just going to go in, log into my email every couple days and see what happens,” and I went “Hey, cool. It’s changing to what my most recent tweet was.” Matthew: Latest tweet, yes. We do the same thing with a website. Web shots are simple. It’s a simple tool in that we just go every, I believe it’s midnight, we just go out and say grab that URL, render it as an image, and that’s now the image that goes in any email that said: “Show me the web shot of this website.” But, yeah. If your website changes tomorrow, that shot in the email you sent out today will also change. Doug: Well, that’s perfect, because you put the link to your page anyhow. So people can see the new image, see what’s on sale, and so especially if you’re an affiliate marketer, I mean, look at the affiliate offers that are changing all the time. Matthew: Right. Doug: That’s really cool, I’m super excited to go and try something with that. Matthew: But, you know, the downside of it, not to talk people out of it, that requires a very different balancing act in terms of your writing, right? If all the body copy of that email is about what’s on your homepage today, and then a week from now what’s on your homepage has really changed, you risk creating a bit of static in your reader’s head. They’re like “Wait, I see this thing about a podcast in an episode and ‘I’m going to have Gary Vaynerchuk on’, but the picture in front of me is Tony Robbins instead. Huh?” And frankly, that’s one of the challenges that we foresee as email marketers start expanding the scope of what they can do and thinking more three-dimensionally, including time in their planning, rather than the eternal now of hitting send on a campaign and never being able to touch it again. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Well, I’m thinking more along the lines of I’ve got a client that’s in the health and wellness space, and they have an affiliate relationship with a number of vendors. One of the brand vendors is Reebok, and Reebok’s always putting out these new, amazing offers. And so, what we find ourselves doing is, our web guys are updating that particular page for the client, but we’re not sending out an email every day because it would be too much for the subscriber list. But it’d be very in the bottom of the email to say “Check back to your email for our daily updates,” and we wouldn’t have to do anything. Every time they log in to the email as you said, it’d be the most current, most relevant offer that’s just come up. We’ve already spent the time to get it on the site, now we can leverage a tool like this to get it into somebody’s email box. Matthew: Well, so, let me take you on a short trip from that toolbox that we make available to the real engine, the Campaign Genius engine that subscribers get their paws on, because building stuff like that, building stuff that does even more sophisticated things, is what we enable customers to do on the back end. Your own designs, your own data, your own decisions. I’ll give you a specific example. We’ve got a function in the Campaign Genius, the user side, not just the simple toolbox side, called Site Sync, that allows for keeping the visual and the hyperlink perfectly coordinated. So, I’ll give you an example. If you decide to put a visual of whatever you’ve got on sale in your outbound email, again, say you’re an e-commerce store. If you’re showing me a picture of this widget, you want me to click, you want me to land on the page that sells that widget. If you change the image to something else, a gadget instead, you’d really like me to click and land on the gadget page, right? Doug: Yep. Matthew: So, we actually virtualize the link and schedule the link just as we schedule the visuals. It’s actually done, believe it or not, in a spreadsheet in a web browser. You say picture changes to X, hyperlink changes to Y, so you can actually change the hyperlink destinations in the email after you’ve sent it. Doug: Wow. Matthew: Useful, I hope. Doug: Yeah, I’m kind of geeking out because I love trying new stuff, and just being able to leverage it. We talked early on saying that people still aren’t using mail merge properly, so this isn’t for you if you’re listing. You need to get something right first. Call your customers by their first names if they’ve given it to you. Matthew: Right. Doug: So, beyond this, what other tools or what other features are there that we can leverage? Matthew: Oh, man. We have an animation platform. Have you ever gotten an email with a .gif in it? Doug: I have, yep. Matthew: Okay. Did it catch your eye? Doug: Yep. Matthew: Yeah, me too. And actually, animation is a real long-haul interest for me. It’s been difficult in the world of email to get file sizes down to the point where animation is sort of tolerable. I think a lot of people made the mistake of starting with an actual video and then exporting that as .gif or, believe it or not, there’s an animated .png format, so you can geek out on that as well. We were looking at that like, you know if you keep the changes between the frames relatively simple, it doesn’t take much movement to catch your eye. We’re wired to not get eaten by saber-tooth tigers, right? So, we’re actually, at a neurological level, we’re wired to detect motion fast. So, a .gif that changes by just a few frames are really, really eye-catching in the inbox, and not necessarily huge, because you’re not changing that much between frames in order to make that apparent motion that’s so eye-catching. So, we added intentionally rudimentary animation environment inside Campaign Genius, so if you just want to change the text or if you want to flash the headline from red to blue and back so that someone goes “Whoa” as they’re flipping through their inbox, that toolset is, frankly, it’s right in there, it’s built right in. That one hasn’t been exploited yet as much as it will be, I’m kind of looking forward to that. I follow a few retailers closely, I’m a fanboy on their email list because I look at what they’re doing and go “Oh, okay, that was good. Maybe we should enable more people to do that who don’t necessarily have a budget of that scale.” Oh, man, what else? Doug: Well, I know there’s been lots of discussion in the email space around using .gifs in email, and everything I see is saying do it opposed to “Hey, this isn’t a good way to talk to your customers.” Matthew: Right. But .gifs in email, and there’s actually a library of, I don’t know many millions of .gifs, I don’t know if you’ve encountered this, in the toolbox on Campaign Genius’ website. There’s a .gif search engine to the largest repository on the planet, Giphy. We talked to them and cut a deal and we built a search engine on top of their API so if you want novelty .gifs, there are literally millions of them there. But that’s less interesting than intentional and meaningful animation. My sale example, right, flip from red to blue, sounds trivial, but at least then it’s about something specific, or it’s about that customer specifically, rather than just eye-catching but kind of irrelevant of trivial. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Yeah, I saw an example on the Litmus blog, and they were showing some retailers where they actually had a guy doing just a few frames where he was changing outfits, changing shirts, putting on a vest, that was just eye-catching. Like you said, it wasn’t a video, but it was really cool, and it was an example of, they had used, I think Jack Spade, they used in an email campaign. Matthew: And I’m guessing the numbers went up, right? Doug: Yep. Matthew: Yeah, I would think so. It’s a wiring thing, right? You can’t not see that motion. I mean, as you and I are talking, I’m watching the waveform scrolling across on the Zencaster app, and it’s hard to not watch it go because we’re wired to do that. Doug: Yeah. Matthew: In addition to animation, I think the place where we really focused deep infrastructure on Campaign Genius was actually that schedule and change in the future aspect of imagery. You mentioned early on the relatively old “I’ll just change the image on the webserver” trick. We tried to take it way, way up in terms of capability and say if you’re in e-commerce or a retail store or something like that, why not set up what’s going to change in the future in a data-driven and a planned way? We even had to build a time machine so you could see what this image is going to look like next week. And that’s all part of the tool kit. Doug: Yeah, like you said, the changing the web image is pretty basic. This is way beyond that. You’ve added the ability to customize and personalize, which is huge. Matthew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Doug: I remember the first time I got an email from somebody, I can’t even remember the marketer that did it, sent me an email with a coffee cup or something on it with my name. And I remember thinking “How the heck did they do that? That’s amazing.” And that was just a simple mail merge over top of an image. Yeah. Matthew: It’s the graphical version of Dear First Name, right? Doug: Yeah. Matthew: Where I think it starts to get more interesting is where we’re personalizing in a rich way. You know. “Matthew consistently looks at X, Y and Z, so the product images in his message are going to be different than the ones in Doug’s message because Doug’s profile is a shopper,” or whatever is different as well. Having that granular control over the context that they’re going to grapple with first, that’s a pretty big lever to play with. Doug: So, being that you work in both the tech and visual space, what are you most excited about in the next six months? Now, you’re not going to, obviously, hand us over your secrets of what’s coming, but what are you excited about? Matthew: Fundamentally, I’m actually still excited about taking the oldest digital marketing channel and really trying to make it do something completely different. I think that’s going to take more than 6-12 months. Adoption takes time, change takes time. But I’m pretty stoked about that. We’ve spent a lot of time and brainpower and stuff handling video inside the company, and while I’m still a fan of video for a lot of use cases, I don’t think video’s necessarily going to show up in your inbox any time soon. I’ve kept track of the companies that try to make video play in email, I’m like, “Nope, guys.” It’s literally just not going to work until the standards change. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ The other thing that I’m watching carefully with a bit of trepidation is Google’s effort to make email an active, programmable channel. There’s a standard called AMP, accelerated mobile pages, right? Doug: Yep. Matthew: And Google is backing AMP for email, and they’ve nominally open-sourced that. They’ve said “We’re going to take the AMP for email standards and hand them over to a neutral organization,” et cetera, et cetera. AMP would make your inbox start to act like a baby web page, with widgets and data and programming options that are currently don’t have. Will I get an email someday that lets me schedule a meeting to have coffee with Doug, without ever exiting the message itself? Maybe. One, it’s still a bit platform-specific, it’s still a bit Gmail-specific, although I think Microsoft and Outlook 365 guys are nominally onboard that AMP standard. But it also introduced a compute machine inside your inbox, and all of a sudden we’re opening the door for, who’s watching, who’s listening, and who’s running code that I didn’t necessarily want running? Doug: Oh, they wouldn’t do that, would they? I’m tongue-in-cheek, you don’t have to answer that. Matthew: Yeah, yeah. Well, email has stayed a bit neutral if you think about it. You kind of trust it because there’s no Turing machine there. Doug: Yeah, that’s right. There is no programming… Yeah. Matthew: Correct. There’s no script. There’s no scripting in email. There’s no programming language that runs in your inbox. And I’m a little concerned about changing that. Regardless of how well you plan it, it’s almost impossible, in fact, it’s actually impossible to completely shut that door. Doug: Well, and I think, I was talking to somebody, Unbounce, and I think Unbounce, who does, you know, landing pages. I think they said that it requires a whole separate set of programming to send out an AMP email. So, it’s two different formats. So, he was saying that the clients, build their regular email and then they have to go into a separate toolset to build the AMP email. Matthew: Yeah, to build the AMP email. And then you’ve got, which of my customers can look at the AMP version? Which can’t? So, that coordination. I’m sure we’ll see exciting stuff, but I do wonder if we’re opening Pandora’s box a little bit there, however inadvertently. Doug: Well, from a customer point of view, it sounds convenient that I don’t need to click. And that was a comment that you and I had again today, was that I get an offer from somebody with a countdown timer, and then I’m required to click on the link to go to the landing page to find out that the offer, in fact, has expired. So, somebody has integrity in their marketing. They said midnight, and it’s 12:01 and it’s gone. Whereas using your tool, it’d be very easy for someone to go in there and have that image change, so I wouldn’t have to click out. I could do it all in the email without having to take that extra step. Matthew: Right, right, yeah. It’s going to get complicated, isn’t it? Not that it isn’t already. Doug: Well, I mean, I’m excited, because this is a toolset that I spend a lot of time talking to people and arguing the fact that no, email’s not dead, it’s still providing the highest ROI. Matthew: Right. Doug: So, yes, are there new tools? Yes. But it comes down to, like you said, adoption. So, how many people are going to adapt to AMP? Don’t know. How many people is Gary V, I think I saw a quote on your website from Gary V, I’m a fan of his. Matthew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Doug: But my customers aren’t on TikTok. I’ve got business colleagues going “Oh, I need to be on TikTok.” I go “Are your customers 24?” They’re going “No,” then why do you need to be there? Matthew: Right. Doug: So, we’re still chasing the shiny new object, and there’s still lots of value in the legacy tools. Matthew: There are. And what I’m learning is that in companies of size, mid-enterprise and up, email’s still the old step-child channel, despite it being, as you said, the most effective. The budget’s still going to shiny new channels, and the old warhorse keeps plodding along and actually returning the best results. Doug: Well, one of the examples that I give is think about the time when you’re scrolling through your Twitter feed or your Instagram feed, and you saw something come from a retailer that you liked. How difficult is it to go back and find that? Matthew: Right, right. Doug: In the feed. Or going to their site and looking, depending on how frequent they’re posting. Whereas email, like you, said, now that… I mean, I remember deleting PST files because my Outlook was full. So, I remember that, thinking “Why won’t my email work?” Matthew: Right. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: And the tech guy goes “Your PST file’s too big.” I go “What’s a PST file?” I thought it was like a tax or something. So now, in email, you go looking and go “Hey, I’ve got,” however many emails I’ve got, you know, “60,000 emails in archive.” It’s like, that’s insane. So it becomes my own library. Matthew: And memory, and to-do list, and contact list, and a bunch of other stuff. Delete in Gmail, and I’m a huge fan of Gmail, I seriously am. It’s really brilliantly engineered. But the delete key doesn’t actually delete. Doug: Yeah. Matthew: Right? That’s bizarre. From a behavior perspective. Because that means if I go search, right? “Oh wait, did I have an email from Doug? I’m getting every email we’ve ever exchanged.” Wow. Doug: Yeah. Information overload. Matthew: Well, and to the topic mentioned you mentioned earlier about people coming back later. I remember when David Allen’s book Getting Things Done was really big, and that’s one of the things he talked about. He talked about setting up a folder to read later. So, read later online. This is a practice that I’ve taken too, it’s like, read later online, so in the evening, I’m going to go sit outside and have a cigar and flip open my laptop. That’s the time I’m going to catch up on my reading file that I’ve set aside as you said, that might be two, three, four, five days, a week later or more. Doug: Right, right. Yeah. Or tools like Pocket, save this to read later. Matthew: Yep. Doug: And if you’re that meticulous about managing it, seriously, points to you. I always mean to, but I always end up with a lot of crud in the inbox. Matthew: Yeah, I know. My inbox isn’t clean. That’s the sum of it. I think the biggest time-saving tool that I’ve really liked is OneTab because, yeah, I’ve got a lot of stuff in my inbox and on my desktop. Doug: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s not going to change. I’ve heard the description of, what’s it called? The digital exhaust cloud that we all leave behind us. All of the data that we generate, save and consume. It’s just going to keep piling up because sorting out what’s chaff and what’s wheat is too much work. Matthew: It is. And the computers, at least as far I can see, from machine learning and AI, just aren’t there 100%. It’s helping, but yeah, you still have to go back and correct them and teach them. Doug: You’re an email guy. Have you run into, there’s a platform called SaneBox, S-A-N-E, SaneBox. Have you run into that? Matthew: Yeah, yeah. I used it, and then I stopped using it because it was too much work to teach it. Doug: Right. Matthew: At least, I felt it was too much work. Doug: And you missed stuff that you didn’t want to miss, right? Matthew: That’s right, yeah. Doug: It’s a wonderful tool, but not smart enough yet. Matthew: Well, yeah. That was years ago, so I don’t know. But I did stop using it because it just became so cumbersome to train it. And maybe that’s my poor delegation skills, I don’t know. Doug: Well, [inaudible 00:37:42]. Email may be the Mount Everest for AIs to climb. Really sorting out a truly meaningful message from spam, I don’t know if there’ll ever be an algorithm capable of doing that. Matthew: Well, I figure that a lot of the industries that heavily use spam have insane budgets, so they seem to be on the forefront, learning how to beat the algorithms and Gmail and the other email providers. Doug: Well, I think Bill Gates made the observation, this is 20+ years ago, but I think he made the observation that he wished that we’d figured out how to put a tiny cost on send. Because of the fact that sending three million emails… it’s got to cost, but not a really big, material one. You don’t go “Oh, my goodness, let’s worry about the send budget. We’ll cut it down from three million to two million.” It’s fractions of cents of cost. So, that means, for a company to take the spray gun out and spray everybody… Send is not the big-budget consideration for them. So, as a result, we all get thousands of things a day, whether we ask for them or not. Permission laws haven’t necessarily stopped that. Matthew: No, I don’t think they’ve stopped it at all. And I encourage people, “Hey if you don’t like my content, unsubscribe.” You’re doing me a disservice by staying on my list and not opening it. You’re affecting my deliverability. So just, no offense, get off the list. Doug: You’re actually costing the planet, too. There’s energy and storage. The email that you sent me that I didn’t read that I store for years to come. That’s adding up. Matthew: I don’t even want to think of that. I’ll have protesters in front of my office. Doug: Yeah, yeah. Okay, we’ll work within the possible. So, based on what you do and what you see coming, who’s one guest that you think I absolutely have to have on my podcast? Matthew: There’s a guy named Loren McDonald. He’s a long-time email guy. He was at Silverpop, Silverpop got bought by IBM, and then IBM recently spun out that email stuff into a company called Acoustic. Here’s the reason I think you should have Loren on your podcast. He’s the king of EVs. It’s not his day job, it’s his passion. He runs a whole site about EVs. And I drive an EV myself, so it’s kind of shared interest. So, you’d get a guy who’s incredibly expert in email and email marketing, but you can also talk about how he takes his marketing expertise into a whole other domain, just as a passion of his own. Doug: Cool. Yeah, I should reach out to him. You’ve been in the business for a while. I met Loren when I was a customer at EmailLabs. Matthew: Awesome. Doug: So that was pre-IBM, pre-Silverpop. Matthew: Okay, okay. So, but you know the guy I’m talking about? Doug: Yeah, yeah I do. That’s a great suggestion. Matthew: Yeah, he’d be super fun on the podcast. I ran across his EV thing. I’d met him at a conference and I ran across the EV thing. I’m like “Wait a minute, I think I know that guy.” And I emailed him, Loren, “You’re the same guy?” He said, “Yeah, that’s me.” “Oh, okay. Fascinating.” Doug: Yeah, that’s cool. Matthew: Yeah. Doug: So Matthew, where’s the best place for people to connect with you, learn more about you, what you’re doing with your business and how to add dynamic content to their email? Matthew: Well, the old-fashioned way. My favorite, still, is email. But we’ve got a ton of info and resources on the Campaign Genius website, And then, as you and I did, connecting on LinkedIn is great. I actually, I’ve come to appreciate LinkedIn more and more from a business perspective. Doug: Well, there you go. I just want to say thanks so much for taking the time out of your day. Another north-west podcast guest, so thanks for sharing with us. Matthew: Delighted to speak with you, Doug. Doug: There you go, listeners. I hope that wasn’t too geeky for you. I’m super excited about the ability to use this dynamic content in email, I spend a lot of time on email myself. And like I said, I came across this toolset, I had no idea who Matthew was. Used it, and then this loop just closed itself. So, I hope you found some value here. I would suggest heading over to the website. I did go in and set up and use the tool for free to try it, and I got some great feedback from my email subscribers, so I’d suggest you do the same thing. So, thanks for tuning in, we look forward to serving you on our next episode. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT [just click to tweet] IMPROVE EMAIL ENGAGEMENT WITH AUTOMATED DYNAMIC CONTENT We helped personalize every image and improve email engagement. The net difference for the click-through rate with a personalized image was 277% higher. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Get in touch with Matthew: Website – Campaign Genius Matthew on LinkedIn Matthew’s email – Find out more about Matthew: Campaign Genius on Facebook Campaign Genius on Twitter Links to other related podcasts and or blog posts: IS IT ALWAYS A BAD THING WHEN PEOPLE UNSUBSCRIBE FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST? HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR EMAIL STRATEGY AND CUSTOMER RESPONSE  
Tips on how to get articles published by major publishers Whenever I put out a piece of content that I’ve created where I’m controlling the narrative and the messaging, I consider a big fat ad for me. Because essentially I’m talking about something that I know about and asserting myself as a subject matter expert, a thought leader. The media outlets like Time Inc., or Conde Nast for example, they’ve been around for over a hundred years and they’ve spent millions building their brands, their cred, their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. What I know after working with editors and producers for years now is that they love hearing from the talent directly, which is you.  You know who you are and you could easily do some homework on the right type of media outlets for you. People say “I can’t believe that they want to hear from little old me.” It’s not a little old you.  It’s “expert” you. And the media needs experts.  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Well, welcome back, listeners, to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today we’re going to talk to somebody who’s gotten some of the best jobs in technology with up to a half a million dollars in income without a college degree so she knows that you don’t need one to succeed. She also writes for some of the best in media outlets which you’ll recognize as I formally introduce her in the world and she has no journalism or writing training. In fact, she has zero credentials besides her high school education. I find that the best stuff comes from… I mean this might sound a little sentimental, but just like being a good person, right? Like showing up, being consistent and reliable. I’d like to introduce you to Susie Moore. She’s a former Silicon Valley sales director, term life coach and advice columnist. Her work has been featured on the Today Show, Oprah Business Insider, the Huffington Post, Forbes, Time Inc, Marie-Claire and she’s treated as a resident life columnist for some of the greatest. Susie’s work and insights have been shared by celebrities and thought leaders, including Adriana Huffington, Kris Jenner, and Sarah Blakely. Her first book, What If It Doesn’t Work Out was named by Entrepreneur as one of the eight business books every entrepreneur must read to dominate their industry. She lives in Miami with her husband Heath and their Yorkshire terrier Coconut. So I’d like to welcome Susie Moore to the Real Marketing Real Fast Podcast today. Well good morning Susie, welcome to the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast. Hey, I’m super excited for you to share with our audience today. Susie: Oh, thank you. I’m very, very happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Doug: So do you want to just share quickly what you would say your superpower is and how you help your clients and help entrepreneurs and business people to be more successful in what they do? Susie: Yes, I would love to. I think that one thing that I am very passionate about doing is helping people kind of come out from the behind the scenes of their business, right? Sometimes it’s very easy to even just think your Instagram’s enough, maybe you know, YouTube is enough. And too busy ourselves with all the backend stuff. But one thing that I really know that helps move any business forward is a real personal connection with the owner, with the CEO of that business. And one thing that I love to do is to help people become confident in really owning who they are and then confident in then showing that and becoming far more visible as a leader. Doug: So what steps would someone take? Like I agree with you, lots of times it’s very easy and very comfortable too… And I use the words for myself anyhow to hide behind your computer. And not have that forward-facing conversation either with a live client or reaching out and speaking to a reporter. So how do you start this process with entrepreneurs and business owners who have not done that before? Susie: I think the first step is to kind of allow yourself to want it. I think that there’s a couple of things that hold people back. First of all, we think “Oh, other people are doing what I’m doing. Maybe it’s not that special.” And often I think that sometimes we are waiting for something to happen, something to change, some magical sign, some permissions land in our laps of that then allows us to take action and move forward and become like truly the leader that we want to be. If you think about why people go into business in the first place, right? It’s to make an impact. Essentially. It’ll be some form of saying if you go to any boss, any entrepreneur, and CEO if they go into business to make an impact and to make the biggest impact that you can. It’s important to be visible. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ And you see this with a lot of great leaders that exist already, right? We, of course, know their companies, we know their products and services, but we want to see them. We want to hear from them. We want to know their story, we want to know their struggles. And this is what the media can do so well for us. Media, you know it exists. It relies on us for stories and when we understand and allow ourselves to think that the media can be an option for us, then we’re actually doing a very generous thing by sharing our stories in a bigger way. Doug: Yeah, I think that’s a good point. I mean often I think people forget and they understand that the media every day gets up with a problem. They have to produce content, whether it’s audio or TV or print. And as business owners, we can help them solve their problem by presenting an opportunity for them to talk about what we’re doing or a problem we’re solving for people. Susie: Absolutely. I mean, so I have a live event that I run a couple of times a year. And my most recent live event two different editors said that they need to get 10 pieces of content live per day. Per day. So whenever you are pitching yourself, sharing your advice, sharing your knowledge, sharing your story, you’re doing an editor who needs content needs to feel at a time or space get traffic, you’re doing them a favor. As long as your content is interesting and it’s useful. And it is in most cases if you kind of understand what entices a reader or a viewer, then what you’re doing is important and it’s very, very helpful too. Doug: Well, and it’s also taking into consideration how it’s going to serve the media. I mean, they’re not interested in running an ad for my company per se, but they are interested in a story that is good for their readers or their listeners. Susie: Exactly which is the best ad, in fact, Doug, right? It’s like it’s advertising about spending the money, and it’s advertising in the most real human way. Doug: Well, my first experience when I can actually do a comparison because I like to use analytics for the marketing and the stuff that we do with our clients, as I had shared some information with a news outlet. And I said, “Hey I’ve got some kind of behind the scenes information on this market sector and if you ever need the information you’re just welcome to come to my office and help yourself.” And he phoned me up and he said, “Hey, I’d like to do a story on you.” And the story ran in the same publication that I was actually running print ads. They had a very aggressive print ad campaign and I started tracking the number of phone calls I got. And what was funny, not funny was all the calls were coming from the short piece of editorial although I had a much larger ad that I had run in that publication for like a year. So I’m going, okay, so you know there’s PR at its finest and editorial content that made the phone ring. Susie: Exactly. Doug: Where the ads were less efficient. Susie: That doesn’t surprise me at all. I’ve heard this story a lot. You know, paid media is great. I run that too. But whenever I put out a piece of content that I’ve created where I’m controlling the narrative and the messaging, I consider a big fat ad for me. Because essentially I’m talking about something that I know about and asserting myself as a subject matter expert, a thought leader. I mean I don’t love that term, but you’re creating content and putting it out there on a large outlet, then that’s what you just naturally become. And when you think about it, Doug, the media outlets that exist, so you know, like Time Inc., or Conde Nast for example, they’ve been around for over a hundred years and they’ve spent so many years and so many millions building their brands, their cred, their authority and in an instant when you’re featured that and editorial piece that is fully lent to you. All of that credibility, all those years is lent to you in an instant. Because to a reader or true to a viewer, you are Vogue or you are Esquire, or you are the Huffington Post. So there’s just so much that comes with it. And as you’ve come to experience you know more businesses naturally one of those things. And that’s a very nice side effect. Doug: Well, and I think I’ve often found people say, “Well, I don’t know how to pitch.” And I think lots of times, at least from my personal experience, has been just really paying attention to what’s on in the news. Regardless of where you get your news, just paying attention and going, “I can answer that question,” or I can contribute to that reporter’s commentary. And it’s reaching out and you know, you don’t get hate mail back. I mean, it’s not like you’re cold calling people who don’t want to hear from you. They get pitched all the time. So they’re used to getting pitched all the time and it’s just part of their business and that’s what they need. Susie: That’s true. And it’s just some producers rely on pitches, like without pitches, I mean what would they be doing? I mean, so much of what they do is inbound. It’s kind of responding to the inbound. And look publicists can play a role in that certainly. But what I know after working with editors and producers for years now is that they love hearing from the talent directly, which is you. And when you can share a story, when you can just reach out in a human way and be useful. I mean, so for example, think of what’s going on in the news of the moment. I just noticed somebody in my group is pitching this, which is fantastic. There’s quite a lot of commentary around Meghan Markle and Harry and you know, having a baby and then bullying in the media. And we have a bully expert in our group now is the time like to reference that and to speak about that. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ So like you said, Doug, just paying attention. Like my content is completely evergreen. But if there’s a newspaper I can tack on to… In fact, and this is a funny story, I was pitching Marie-Claire for a long time. Pitching them, pitching them, pitching them because I love that magazine. It was like a dream for me to be in Marie Claire. It was like growing up one of my favorite things. And I wasn’t getting anywhere because I was just pitching evergreen content. And then one time I think they were just so tired of my pitch the editor said to me, “You know what? This piece can work.” She CC’d another editor, and she said, “Let’s run it the day after Kim and Kanye’s wedding.” So my piece was about how to have a wedding on a budget, right? How to have a romantic wedding on a budget. And look that’s an evergreen topic, right, people getting married all the time. People budget all the time. But she was like, let’s run it straight… And so the piece was hot off the heels of one of the most elaborate weddings in history. Here’s how you can keep your wedding costs down. And interestingly, my very first fast live TV interview was because I had written about divorce a few times because I was divorced in my early 20s and it was when Chris Martin Gwenyth Paltrow consciously uncoupled. My old pieces around divorce were dug up because producers and editors are just like us, they’re Googling around for experts, looking for content. And they wanted me to have a point of view on it and all I did as a human was get divorced and write about it. It’s not like I’m a divorce lawyer or I’m a divorce counselor or even a divorce coach. I just went through an experience, shared it. And therefore because you know, because my voice was heard then this is how you get discovered to offer your voice and your point of view on what’s going on not just today but in the future too. Doug: Yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean and I agree with you, my experience has also been that most often the media would rather hear from the entrepreneur or the small business person themselves than to be pitched by a PR company. And not all the PR companies out there do a great job. I get lots of pitches for my podcast and some of them… I was just speaking to a fellow podcaster the other day and I said to her, “I really feel like I should write back to the person that hired the PR company to tell them what a bad job they’re doing.” They’re pitching me for topics that don’t make any sense. The pitches are bad. And you know that somebody someplace is paying money to make that happen and they’re just not getting the result because they’re not paying attention. Susie: I’m so happy you said that Doug. Look, I get pitched to because I write columns in various media outlets and I’ve had two different publicists pitch me, two of my closest friends. Oh and they’re sending me their full bio, I’m like we were just in Mexico together. Like no research. And the thing is this can’t happen when you’re your own publicist. And you know, when you’re doing it yourself you already know who you are and you could easily do some homework on the right type of media outlets for you. But actually, I told my friends lovingly, I’m like, “Look publicists they’re often overworked. They have a lot of clients. They just have to push out… Or they don’t have to, but they with the time that they have, they often just decide to pump out a lot of emails, blanket style.” And also, I’ll say, “Just so you know my dear your publicist pitched me you.” And I think that that’s fine because they can then have an honest conversation. Because you’re right, they are paying for and publicists are very expensive. This is why I want to democratize PR by helping people do it themselves. Because not only are they more likely to be successful, but also it’s not something that’s so mystical. It’s like this really impossible mystic thing to learn. It’s available to all of us. Doug: Yeah, absolutely. And after becoming a client of yours and purchasing, Your Five Minutes to Famous course. You’d brought up HARO and I had looked at that years ago and I thought I’m just going to try it. And just like anything else, ad spot analytics, let’s follow the advice that you’re giving and let’s go through that. And I was really surprised at the hit ratio in terms of how many I responded to. So I was obviously selective to make sure that I could fulfill what they were looking for. But I would guess that we probably got over 30% turned into an article. Susie: I mean that’s incredible, right? Like it’s incredible. And not only do you get your piece featured but then you have an editor, you have a contact. Do you have like an acquaintance who will then if they work with you… Often my editors come to me and they’re like, “Do you have a point of view on this?” And I either do or I don’t if it makes sense for me to participate. But often they’ll come to me and they’ll even go to my blog saying, “Can I put this on Business Insider or can I put this wherever it maybe.” Because I’m a trusted source. And that is an awesome place to be. It means you have a lot more control than as somebody else’s managing it for you. And that means that you can often… You can also determine how often you pitch. You can completely control the messaging. You include the links that make sense for you. So doing this yourself… I mean, no matter what, I know that some people who have some very successful businesses, huge teams, huge ad budgets, but they still keep their media contacts very close and they… Just, for example, Tony Robbins, when he goes to New York, he goes to the Business Insider offices personally, right? And he goes and he gives like a… He’ll do a quick coaching session with some executives there. Because he knows the value of media. People who are often very successful do. And like I said, this isn’t just for the people who are super well known is for people like us to help us. We have just regular people to help us get more well known. Doug: Well and I mean it helps with your SEO. And the other thing that I saw, saw somebody the other day asking for help, and I can’t remember which blog it was on. They’re asking for help with reputation management and they’re saying, “What should I be doing for reputation management?” Dig the well before you need to water. Don’t show up when you’ve got nothing published and you’ve got nothing from a third party credible source saying that you’re a smart person. Don’t wait until something bad happens. Susie: Right. In fact, somebody said to me recently, Doug, she’s like, “I guess my books coming out in December. Do you think it’s too soon?” Because she asked me should I come to your live event, which is in October. And she said, my book’s coming out in December. Is that too soon? And I’m like, “Girl, you don’t want to be like, here’s my book. You don’t me yet, but here’s the book.” The longer the runway the longer you can prepare and kind of build some relationships, do some great work, do some great pitching. And then editors will be [inaudible 00:14:39] what goes into a book launch. They respect authors and they want to help. In fact, I have my second book coming out next year and I know my editors will time it, the time my pieces for my launch week because that’s how we worked together. It was definitely a give, take generous relationship. Doug: Yeah. It comes back to relationships. So there’s just really no shortcut to building a good relationship with somebody and you know, adding value to their lives and there’s a fit and you guys can work together. Susie: I completely agree and I think that sometimes we overlook this, we can be very myopic in terms of what do I need to do this week to make money in my business, right. Whereas… Doug: Well that’s long term, normally I say, what can I do today to have a paycheck tonight? Susie: I know, well a whole week. Doug: Yeah, a whole week. Susie: I find that the best stuff comes from… I mean this might sound a little sentimental, but just like being a good person, right? Like showing up, being consistent and reliable. Maybe someone who’s generous about sharing information. And I think that when you do that like the longterm it does kind of take care of itself. But also the things that focus on your business are very leveraged and you’re not in this constant scrambling mode. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Yeah. I mean, I don’t want to go into a topic that we’re never supposed to discuss and that’s politics, but we just had an election in Canada. And the politicians generally are the worst at building relationships. So it’s like, okay, I’m going to hear from you every four years. And why every four years? Because there’s an election every four years and you want me to donate money or you want me to volunteer. Now, what are you going to do for those other three and a half years? Nothing. So that’s not really your relationship. That’s just a list that you blast when you want something and you don’t add any value, have any discussion, build any relationships, any deeper than that. Susie: It’s true. In fact, my friend has a joke, she’s like, you don’t want to be like the drunk uncle that shows up asking for money once in a while. You don’t even… You want to be like a consistent family member. Doug: I was asking for money. Susie: It’s like, “Hey baby, we haven’t seen each other in 10 years, can I have some money.” So yeah, it’s true. I think just being consistent and like showing up. I mean it sounds overly simple, but I think the best and most successful things in life are simple. Doug: Well that doesn’t sound like a new hack or a new app. It sounds pretty simple. Susie: Yeah, precisely. But I think that sometimes when it comes to like solving problems… I mean I also have a belief that any problem in business is actually just an emotional block. It’s so easy to convolute stuff and make things appear complicated. But really it’s like… In fact, I had this conversation with somebody recently because I said “How are you monetizing immediate leads? Because that’s something very important in my opinion.” And she was like, “I don’t know.” And I’m like, “Well just measure it.” Like go going through like the last two months in your business, see where the money’s come from and see… Simple. See where the money’s come from, see what’s worth your time, see what isn’t. Again, it sounds like, “Oh that’s very simple,” but it’s easy to not to… Things that are easy to do also are very easy not to do. Doug: Yeah, that’s right. Susie: And so I think that some of these just general simple principles if we apply them, we can just allow a little more success in without so much more hassle. Doug: Absolutely. You’re right. I mean, you don’t need to have big fancy computer programs. It could be an Excel sheet, it could be a Google doc, it could be a piece of paper saying, “Hey, I had 15 leads come in this week. Where do they come from?” Susie: Exactly. And she had this woman has like a high-end coaching program or she has 35ish women. I’m like, “Okay, great. How many came from media? 5, 10, 15? Where did the others come from? Okay. Wherever people are coming from double down on those.” Like, that’s it. Doug: Yep. And what do the best people come from? Susie: Yeah, precisely. Who likes, the easy to work with people who are just a joy. Right? Who you want to show up for. Doug: Yeah. I tell people I’m not lazy. I just want people that pay me well and that are fun to work with and get me. I don’t want to have to arm wrestle them every time I make a recommendation. So, you know… Susie: Yeah. It’s so interesting. Like Michael Hyatt has this great model where he’s like the dream client. Like you know, higher-end, no stress versus like the lower end, high stress and how you can kind of get like a mix. But there are plenty of great high-end clients out there who want to work with you, who show up on time they do the work. I always say to everybody like, your success is my success if I work with you. Like I always say it’s so cool for me when I see my students in media, that’s my dream to be in. I mean that is like the coolest thing isn’t it Doug. Doug: Yeah, that’s pretty exciting. Susie: I’m like, I’ve been quoted in Cosmo as an expert but I haven’t contributed to them. And one of our students recently was a contributor there and I was like, “Go Rebecca.” You know, like I feel like it’s a huge win for me. Doug: So is there a client, do you want to give a shout out to? An example of somebody who you know, that you transitioned to this, “Hey, I want to do this, but I don’t know how to make it happen.” Susie: Yeah, I’m just thinking there’s so many. Oh, I’m going to give a juicy one. So there’s one person in our group… And look, we tend to attract a lot of coaches and a lot of bloggers. But he’s a golf expert. And I certainly know nothing about this golf niche. I don’t know the golf lexicon, I don’t know any of the references. But he came to the program, understood that this is all available, right? It’s not like this like a glass tower that you have to climb and some fancy people you need to know. And then he pitched a couple of regional and then a national golf magazines, print and online. And he got two out of the three pitches, he had a “yes” within one day. Doug: Wow. Susie: I know. And his testimonial for us was, “I can’t believe that they want to hear from little old me.” And I’m like, well that’s the thing. It’s not a little old you.  It’s “expert” you. And media needs experts. So it’s just like letting it happen. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Now in terms of value, I mean what sort of retail value? If I was to buy that media, would I have to spend to get that coverage? Susie: Oh Doug, I love that question. I mean, it’s a lot, right? I mean if you look at a publicist typically they sought a minimum $10k per month retainer, minimum six months. So like it’s a 60 K investment and there are no guarantees. And I understand that because nothing can be guaranteed in this world. But when you think about it, I was reading, I mean not to speak about politics again, but I was reading about a politician we all know who just by gaming the media had $200 million worth of advertising free. By coming out with some short statements. I mean it’s hard to put like money on it. But if you think about how much to take out a third of a page ad in a magazine, in a national magazine. Doug: Sure, yeah. You go look at one of the big magazines and you’re going to spend 25, 30, 40, 50,000, maybe 100,000 dollars to get a page. Susie: Exactly. And one of the pieces that I love to share and talk about because I always talk about, you know, it’s good to have a bold perspective. And one of the pieces that I wrote was for Business Insider who has a huge audience. And it was about either why working nine to five, buying a home and putting money in a 401k won’t make you rich. Which is very contrarian, to the American way of doing things. And it had nearly 2 million views. I mean what’s 2 million based on like a CPM for a business audience. Like that’s a lot and then it linked to my book, it naturally sold a lot of books. And it was actually an excerpt from the book. So it wasn’t even… [crosstalk 00:22:02] Doug: Well I think the other thing you said is that you are being authentic so you had a contrarian view. So if you think of guys like Gary Vaynerchuk, I mean he’s built this amazing big brand by posting content. And he just tells people what he thinks. And if you don’t like it, just go away. Don’t listen to him. Susie: Exactly. And he gets a lot of free media coverage too because he’s confident being unique and having this bold perspective. And this bold perspective, I mean, it doesn’t have to be anything crazy, right? You don’t have to be like really wonky out there. You can write a piece, you know, I wake up at 9:00 AM and that’s what makes me rich. You know, [inaudible 00:22:31] like I wake up at 4:30 and I meditate for two hours and. I just read today the Jennifer Aniston makes up at 9:00 AM and I was like, “That’s actually a piece.” I mean why not be a late riser? Because again, everyone thinks, “Oh, the early bird catches the worm, have to be…” What that’s not true? Of course, it’s not true. It’s just no one’s maybe spoken about this side of it before. Doug: Yeah. I mean that was the whole Tim Ferriss’ book, The Four Hour Work Week, people said, you can’t do that. So, well okay, fine. You probably can’t work four hours a week, but you certainly don’t need to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week. What’s wrong with working two days a week and taking five days off. Susie: Exactly. And I actually read a piece too recently Doug, but this woman coach came out saying anyone who walks more than 40 hours a week is completely sloppy. They’re lazy. They’re inefficient. They’re thinking too much. It’s nonsense. And I mean that’s pretty bold because people pride themselves on their 70-hour workweek. Doug: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a badge of honor. Like, look at me. I never see my family and I’m just waiting for a heart attack. Susie: I know. Congratulations. Doug: Good for you. Susie: I know. So it’s like, but then I think there’s a space for everything. Arianna Huffington says that we spend our lives working on our resume where we should also be thinking about our eulogies. And I really liked that because it’s not just like, oh, promotion this, that, awards. It’s like, what people are going to say about you? And I just think that there’s… I mean, whatever your point of view is, again, it doesn’t have to be something really scary to put out there. But you have a different point of view on how some people think maybe there’s a child-rearing method that you don’t agree with, right? Or maybe there’s a popular diet that you don’t agree with. Maybe there’s… There was another piece that I read recently which I thought was really interesting. This guy gave up alcohol for three or four years. He’s like, “I’m excited to go back.” And it’s like typically the wisdom would be, “Oh, stay where you are.” And he’s like, “No, I didn’t give up because of addiction I just gave up out of curiosity and I’m really happy to be drinking again.” So again, I mean there are so many different points of view and whatever your different point of view is that’s what makes you unique. And sharing it is not only fun but you find the right people who are like you and they want more from you. Doug: Well and I think it makes as you said, it makes the relationship… You’ve got a relationship with a reporter, it makes it a little bit more authentic and you can go deeper and get past just may be the one piece. In the media buying side, I often will hire writers to write long-form direct copy. And what I found was I had one writer that would write kind of generally accepted content. So he wouldn’t ruffle any feathers and I had somebody else who wrote kind of a contrarian review and I bought exactly the same media for these guys. And we ran two campaigns side by side and the contrarian guy crushed it. Because our feedback was that people either loved him or hated him. The people who loved them really loved them. And the other guy, nobody really cared about. He was just gray and he blended in. So that was an experience for us in terms of writing. That was for paid stuff and got a better response. It wasn’t crazy stuff. It was just more focused, not afraid to say, this is what I believe. You know, you might offend somebody. Well, so what? Susie: So what? Exactly. I mean you can live your life worrying about that or you can do your work and the right people will find you. I think it’s a great shortcut to getting the noise out of your life. So for example, when I’ve written about divorce, essentially my message is always optimistic. But I mean not to, again, to make this overly simple, but like after divorce there’s life, it’s okay. Like you can survive and I have a positive take on it. I have a lot of hate for that Doug. It was like people don’t respect marriage. You know, Jesus doesn’t like this. And I’m like, look, respectfully, I have my beliefs and I don’t agree. And that’s okay. And probably, the people who are very, very traditional, they’re just not my people and that’s good to know. I don’t want those people on my list, my followers. They can follow somebody else who’s going to make sense for them. And we’re all allowed to do this in this world. Right? We’re all allowed to find the people who make sense for us and to know that some people aren’t our people and to just like love them anyway. But just like not have them in a media sphere. And I think that that’s cool. Doug: And if I don’t like your content, I can unfollow you on Twitter and I can unsubscribe from your email list. I mean I changed the way I wrote my email list after interviewing a content writer last year. Just to go less, less business and more personal. And some people unsubscribed and I did a podcast about, I went, “This is great news.” It helps my deliverability metrics because it shows I have a more responsive audience. So if you don’t like my stuff, feel free to just unsubscribe. No hard feelings. Just get off my list and go find a list that’s providing content that you like. Susie: Yeah, I say that my unsubscribe box, I mean it’s like, I say something like, “Oh no, please don’t go.” Or something like that. And then I say don’t worry, you can always come back. I mean love, right? Like, let’s say I think I post a meme, like a funny Adele meme or something. But it’s like yeah, that’s the thing. You know, you just have to worry about the people who’re going to need you and like want your stuff. And when it comes to focus, that’s also another good point that you made because often the kind of general high-level stuff… Often when people join my course for the first time, their ideas initially can be a little bit more broad, right? Like Five Ways to be Happier or you know, Five Ways to Find Love. And so consider it my job to help them really tighten that up. So instead of saying Five Ways to Find Love, you want to be more specific to find those people, right? So maybe Five Ways to Find Love After 40. Or Five Ways to Find Love After Moving City or Five Ways to Find Love as a Christian. Like, or whatever it may be. Because however more specific you are the right people will just flock to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Or the number one thing to lose in order to have everything you want. Susie: Precisely. Yes. Or why I’m not getting a second date? The biggest mistake you’re making. Do you know what I mean? There are so many fun ways to slice ideas. Doug: Saturday Night at Home Suck. Susie: Oh, I think I wrote that one. Doug: I think you’re saying you wrote both of those. Susie: Oh my god, well there you go. I can’t even remember all my content now. Why Your Saturday Nights at Home Suck. And that was a piece about FOMO. Right? I love how you’ve been through the archives. How cool. Doug: Yeah. The thing I see in… The most FOMO I see in my place now is my youngest grandson, who’s just turned one and you know, he doesn’t want to miss anything in the house. If there’s a noise, he doesn’t… It doesn’t matter what he’s doing. And he needs a look. It’s like, yeah, FOMO. Don’t want to miss out. Susie: Aw so sweet. Doug: So to steal a Tim Ferriss question seeing as I brought him up. One of the questions he had asked in one of his books was, “What’s the bad advice that you hear?” So you’re out, you know, you’re doing lots of social stuff I’m assuming based on the business that you’re in. And so you overhear a conversation and what’s the one thing that you just go, “Man, I wish I could just go over there and slap them for that?” Susie: Okay, let me think. Some bad business advice. I mean there’s a lot isn’t there, out there? Doug: Because you’re saying that you know, this isn’t difficult. I mean there’s a process to follow. You don’t need to be an expert. There is no special ladder. You don’t need to have all the contacts. There’s a very simple plan that as a business owner that, if you want to, give your self permission to, you can do this. Susie: I think that a piece of bad advice to get thrown around a lot because it’s also just conventional wisdom now is that you really have to work very, very hard if you’re going to be successful. Like it’s a grind, your eyes will bleed at night because you can’t sleep. It’s kind of like this someone’s shouting at you like hustle, hustle, hustle. Like I think that that is bad advice. It’s not true. And kind of agreeing with the coach that I mentioned a little bit earlier, I mean so much of that is just based around like nonsense. I saw it in my corporate job so much when I would always leave on time, and I’ve always hit my sales goals and people are at the office late. They were just wasting their time. I don’t know what they’re doing. But I just think that this kind of, you know, you’ve got to work hard, like just go to like stay in the game and like sweat, sweat, sweat. I think that’s terrible advice. Doug: And what’s the bad advice around PR? So for the people that listen to podcast sitting and thinking, “Hey that all sounds really good. It sounds good to you. You’re very articulate. You’ve got experience doing this. I’ve never done it before.” What sort of bad advice are they listening to that’s causing them to have that doubt? Susie: I mean, again, there’s so much. I think with the bad advice, some bad advice is that you have to have formal qualifications to be recognized as an expert. Whereas the truth is once you start creating content more and more and being out there, that is how you become an expert. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug: Great. There you go. You know the other thing, the nice thing is its kind of like your testimony. I mean it’s yours and it’s personal. So if we’re going to talk about science or something where it’s debatable, but when you’re talking about your personal experience where you have expertise, whether like you said it’s golfing or divorce or whatever it is, I mean that’s your life experience and it’s really not up for people to say that’s not true. Susie: Precisely. And look there is a place for traditional experts. For example, this is an example that I give often. If a woman experiences a miscarriage, very, very common, right? There is a place for medical professionals. You want a doctor to tell you what’s happening with your body, what to expect, steps to take. But you want to hear from another woman who’s been where you are. You want to hear the personal story. Same if you’ve got a lot of debt and you’re in the process of getting out of debt, there is a place where financial experts who know all the facts and then you also want to hear from somebody who was in debt and who got out of debt. On a human level like speaking about like what they went through day to day, what they had to overcome emotionally. We are all humans, Doug, at the end of it, all right? There’s a lot of information. Information is important and powerful, but at the end of it, we want it to be understood and we want to feel less afraid and we need people who are a little bit farther along than us to show us the way. Doug: Yeah, exactly. A little bit further along and that’s why I really appreciate your Facebook group because there’s so much interaction and people are so just honest and out there, Here’s where I am, this is what I’m struggling with, this is what I need to do, or this is what I’ve done.” And it’s an encouragement, even if they’re not in the same industry that you’re in that you’re just listening to people. I struggle with that or I have that doubt or I wasn’t sure how to do this. And it’s just building… It’s a community really. Susie: Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s so much power in that, right? Again, we can all be in different fields. Yin on a side hustle, right? But the things that we experienced, day to day are the same, right? We experience a lot of fear. We experience a lot of doubt. We experience frustration and overwhelm. So again, at the end of it all, we’re just here to help each other, right? And if we can make that easier, that process easier and provide steps for each other. And just take anything complicated out. Make it as simple as possible. I think that that’s… I mean that’s a winning strategy. Doug: Absolutely. There you go. So I’m going to be respectful of your time, but I’m going to ask you two questions. One is going to help me and one’s going to help you. The first one is who’s the one guest I absolutely have to have on my podcast? Susie: Oh, one guest, Ruth Soukop. I mean she’s an incredible business owner and she had a book out this year in her [inaudible 00:33:48] is the thing, it’s called Do It Scared. And she’s a businesswoman I really look up to. Doug: Okay, if you could make an introduction that’d be amazing. And I’ll reach out to her and get on the podcast. And then what I can do for you is can you tell our listeners where’s the best place to learn more about you, connect with you and just follow and see what you’re doing? Susie: Certainly. So if you’re interested in publicity and media and just getting a good free workshop to kind of understand how it works behind the scenes, you can check out And just my general website with my free weekly confidence injections and videos. You can head to Doug: Excellent. Hey, thanks so much. I had a great time. Susie: Thank you. This was fun. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. Doug: So there you go listeners. I hope that a lot of the stuff that Susie said connected with you, I followed her for a while. I love what she’s doing. I am a paid client. I do subscribe to and have bought some of her training and have really enjoyed it. And so I was so excited to reach out to her and just have her share what she’s doing with you. And I can just say that everything that she shared with me and the information with her course has been top-notch. I hope that you head over to the show notes, we’ll make sure that we transcribe these and we’ll have the links to her website and to her PR site as well. So thanks again for tuning in. I look forward to serving you in our next episode. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS [just click to tweet] HOW TO GET ARTICLES PUBLISHED BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS Major media outlets have spent millions building their authority. In an instant when your article is featured that is fully lent to you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Get in touch with Susie: Website – Get Rockstar PR Website – Susie Moore Susie on LinkedIn Find out more about Susie: Susie on Facebook Susie on Twitter Susie on Instagram Links to other related podcasts and or blog posts: HOW TO GET MORE ROI FROM YOUR PR PRESS RELEASES GENERATE TRAFFIC FROM GOOGLE & YAHOO  
Tips on how to make LinkedIn videos that engage your connections And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. This podcast that we’re creating right now will get repurposed after this call. It’s going to get chopped up into smaller bits of little video nuggets that we could use for promotional purposes elsewhere. And people went crazy that I took the time to send them a personal video. The other thing I think is because of the vulnerability of the video, like the content that I created, the message has really resonated with people. Yes, I mean, it’s just like the real world, right? I think if people can notice that you actually care about them, and they’re not just a number to you, they respond. I mean, when I get connection requests, I try, and it doesn’t always happen, but I certainly try and reach out then. “Each person that you meet, it doesn’t matter who they are, could potentially introduce you to at least 50 other people.” This was sort of before the days of social media. Now, I think that’s very much leveraged because each person you meet on social media can potentially introduce you to thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, depending on who it is. It’s a nurturing sort of an approach to building relationships and audience, which is like I said, it’s no different than real life, right? But I’d encourage you to start simple, just start really simple, Zoom is free, for example, and you can hook up with anybody in that sense to record a video conversation like this Yeah. It’s like the word care or just caring, I think that really sums it up for doing good business. If you can just show that you care and that your team and your employees, that they also care about clients and your customers, and leads and future customers. I love that, and also coming back to something you mentioned earlier, to make it even stronger, is do the 80/20 thing on it, where you sort it by your most popular posts and then you basically just grab the top 20 of your blog posts and those are the ones that you then repurpose. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug Morneau: Hey welcome back listeners to another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Today my guest on my podcast is Gideon Shalwick. I had Gideon on my show earlier this year, I was really impressed with the video marketing tips and techniques that he shared, the tools that he was using, and wanted to reconnect and get him back on the show just to provide an update. And just for us to really have a deep dive, and have some conversations around what we could do to help you, our listeners, to actually engage and take some action steps, and get started leveraging video as a platform to increase your reach to contact or connect with your prospective clients, and to grow your network and build your business. And in this episode, we’re going to talk a little bit about LinkedIn and how Gideon’s using this for LinkedIn, and give you some very easy ways that you can get started. And how you can repurpose content that you’ve got. So, with that said, I’m just going to switch over here, and I’m going to invite Gideon on the show. Gideon is with the company called Splasheo, super excited to be a client of his, and just welcome him to the show. Doug Morneau: So, hey, Gideon, it’s great to reconnect with you and just to have you back on the Real Marketing Real Fast podcast, so excited. Last time I was surprised that it was back in, just months ago that we did this, and time just flies. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, absolutely, and that was such a fun interview, I keep telling you it’s one of my most interviews yet on a podcast. So really glad to be back on the show again. Doug Morneau: No, big high standards, I do remember one comment that made me a bit nervous about being on video with you, you said that some people have a face for podcasting, I said, “That’s why I podcast.” And here I am on video. So I hope I don’t need the approval of the people watching it. Gideon Shalwick: You look great, don’t worry. People don’t judge you on what you look like anymore these days. Doug Morneau: Yeah, yeah, just going through a fall cold. So, what’s been going on since last time we talked, I mean, we talked a lot about video and where the trends are in the video, and how to get the [inaudible 00:02:35] moving, and you’ve been just plugging away? Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, it has just really been plugging away, it’s been a busy year. Like I said before this call, just head down, bum up, as we say in Australia, working on Splasheo, and getting it to the next level. A lot of it’s actually been a lot of boring stuff that I’m not sure people are all that interested in to hear. But that’s actually really interesting and maybe worth mentioning is that what I found is when you’re building a business, and a successful business, or any business for that matter I think, there’s a lot of boring stuff actually. Or things that might appear boring to the outside world, but it’s what you’ve got to do. Well, you’ve got to find an area that you’re really interested in, and then the boring work, and I’m using quotation marks here for those people listening in, actually doesn’t come across boring. It’s just part of your mission, part of your challenge to fulfill your dream of what you’re trying to do. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug Morneau: Well, I always love the marketing side, which obviously that’s why I do what I do, and I sent an email out to my list and I said, “Hey, why don’t you guys tell me what your biggest problem is?” And so far the winner is, “I don’t have time for marketing.” Gideon Shalwick: That’s awesome, that’s really interesting, yeah, okay. Doug Morneau: Yeah, I thought that was interesting, and I think there’s probably a bunch of reasons for that. I mean, we are tradespeople and experts in our area, whatever it is we produce or sell, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re experts in marketing. So, I love to look towards technology, so how can we use technology and tools and then outsource to someone like you to do that heavy lifting? So how can you do stuff in the background that contributes to my marketing, can make it very easy for me to quote, hashtag, have time for marketing? Gideon Shalwick: Yeah. No, it’s so true, and it’s really interesting that you have that result on your survey as well because a few years ago I ran a survey, I got about, if I remember right it was over 1000 responses, I think it was 1200 or something like that. Which is a lot, and the number one thing that came back from the question that I asked, “What’s your biggest frustration when it comes to video marketing?” So it wasn’t just marketing, it was video marketing. And again it was the time. The time that it takes to create the Linkedin videos, record the videos, process the videos, publish them, et cetera, and manage it. Which I guess is also under that bigger banner of marketing, it is time-consuming. There’s a lot of leg work that has to get done for doing the marketing. I mean, there’s three sources of traffic, right? And it doesn’t matter which one you choose, there’s leg work required to make it happen. Gideon Shalwick: There is paid advertising or paid traffic. There’s organic traffic, and then there’s influencer, or borrowed, or joint venture sort of traffic, or collaboration traffic, those three. And with all three of them, there are no short cuts, there’s the boring, that’s a hashtag or inverted commas, that you’ve got to either do yourself, or someone in your team, or outsource it to get someone else to do it for you. So there’s no real way around it, you’ve got to do it [crosstalk 00:05:53]. Doug Morneau: Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about backing stuff, because like you said, even hosting a podcast people go, “Oh yeah, well I’m going to have a podcast.” And what they don’t realize is you find the guest, screen the guess, interview the guest, edit the podcast, and then I don’t know if you know Adam Schaeuble who is a fellow podcaster. And he just did a video on that and he said, “What are you guys doing to promote it?” So there comes the whole other thing, what are you going to do to create Linkedin videos and promote it? So I think with a service like yours, you’re taking at least that big piece of the, “How do I create that promotional content to get eyeballs on it?” Because there’s no sense having a YouTube channel, a LinkedIn page, a podcast if there’s nobody showing up. Gideon Shalwick: Absolutely, what’s really interesting is, like with this batch processing thing, because I’ve just recently started doing it for myself as well, and it is pretty awesome. And there’s different ways of doing it as well, there are a couple of different ways when it comes to video. So the first way is the way that, like one of our users Johnny Dumas, he does this. He would take a whole day or a morning and he just uses his phone, his iPhone, records a whole bunch of videos, and then they’re only one minute long each, but they’re self-contained little videos. And then he submits them our Splasheo platform, and then one day he submitted, it was like over 100 videos or something that he submitted. And because he wanted to get enough Linkedin videos done for, I think, for over a four-month period he wanted to go on holiday, right? So he’s like the master of batch processing, that guy, it’s incredible. Gideon Shalwick: So that’s one way, which again, it’s really a very time-effective way of doing it, an even better way that I like because you don’t even have to think about it, is basically what we’re doing right now. This podcast that we’re creating right now will get repurposed after this call. It’s going to get chopped up into smaller bits of little video nuggets that we could use for promotional purposes elsewhere. So I could use it on my side, you could use it on your side, and I just did one, the previous one I did was with Matt Wolfe and Joe Fier from the Hustle and Flowchart Podcast, sorry it just slipped my mind for a second. And that was about an hour-long interview, and we got 19 video snippets out of that video that we then processed and put through the Splasheo system. And I mean, gosh, it took me an hour of my own time to create that content, I mean, 19 Linkedin videos. But that’s enough Linkedin videos like I’m publishing three a week at the moment, so whatever 19 divided by three is, what is that about six weeks or so, right? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug Morneau: I think so, yup. Gideon Shalwick: Six and a bit weeks of content for one hour of my time, I mean, that’s not bad. Doug Morneau: Well and I think lots of times we have content that we can repurpose, like before the call I was on doing some research and thinking, “So, what do I need to do to get kind of my own act together to get some video content?” And I thought, “Well, I’ve interviewed 150ish people so far in publishing my podcast.” So my thinking was, “I’m going to look at my stats, and I’m going to look at the best episodes, and say, ‘Okay, so these are the top 20%.’ And then I can just upload them to your system.” I don’t have to do anything, it’s already there in the bank, and I don’t need them all tomorrow, right? Here, here’s a bunch, go to work, make me look good. And then I just have to give them to my social media manager to plug them into the system. Gideon Shalwick: Beautiful. That’s an even better way, I think if you already have the content, like one of our clients, they do a lot of public speaking. So they’ve got a hard drive full of previously recorded, professionally recorded content from their events, right? Doug Morneau: Yup. Gideon Shalwick: So, what we’re doing with them is that they just literally share a folder with us with all their videos in there, and then we get to work, and we go through that content and then Splasheo them up, I suppose that’s the word to use. So they don’t have to actually do anything other than sharing that folder with us, which is pretty cool. Now that is a higher premium service that we offer, it’s not publicly available if people are interested in that they can certainly contact us and we can have a chat. But it’s the same sort of idea, what you’re saying with your podcasts, if you’ve got a bunch of content already, what’s really cool with podcasts is you can turn the audio into Linkedin videos, and so you can snippet them up and do exactly the same thing. You just need a nice little background image to go along with it, and you’ve got the nice text moving on the screen with the sound wave. And again, have enough video content there for the rest of eternity in your case. Doug Morneau: Yeah, yeah I’m hoping I get to live for another I don’t know, 40 or 50 years. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, you’ll be fine, I think you’ve got enough content for the next 40 or 50 years. Doug Morneau: Well, and I like your ex of JLD does, I mean, that makes sense. I mean, everybody’s got a phone in their pocket, so take an afternoon when the weather’s nice and you’ve got good natural lighting. Go find your favorite spot, sit down, grab it, and I sent a whole bunch of videos out last week, and on the weekend we had a holiday weekend. So I took my laptop and in our backyard, we’ve got a river running through, and the salmon were spawning, and the eagles were in there, and the bears were in there fishing. And I just sat out there and shot a whole bunch of videos and sent them to subscribers of my email list and said, “Hey, thanks for subscribing, let’s build a deep relationship.” And people went crazy that I took the time to send them a personal video. So you haven’t got yours yet, I haven’t got that far down my list. But I had to work through my entire email list to all the people who regularly open my emails, and send them something personal. Because it’s not a gift, right? Gideon Shalwick: Yup. Doug Morneau: It’s a little short piece of video, and it’s just a thank you, and it’s a personal connection, and next time we talk I’ll have some results, and feedback for you. Gideon Shalwick: I think that’s a great idea, that deepening the level of conversation. I mean, it reminds me of a book that I just recently read from, is it … Which? Gosh, the 80/20 guy. He wrote a book called Simplify and he talks about basically that if you want to be competitive, or want to succeed longterm, you’ve got to simplify in your business, simplify, simplify, simplify. But there are only two ways of simplifying, and you can only choose one of them, that was quite a revelation to me. But if you want to be competitive, you can only do one of them, right? So the first one is to simplify for the price, and normally this is where you get a software solution or something like that, and they can just scale like crazy, right? Doug Morneau: Yup. Gideon Shalwick: And then get millions of followers, this sort of thing. So you simplify for price because the idea is that you lower the price, and you open up the market so that you can scale. The other simplification is to simplify for, I forget what he calls it, but it’s simplifying for your value proposition, basically. And the idea is that when people use your product or service, that it’s an absolute joy to use it, they just rave from the experience of it. So with that, obviously, it takes a bit more effort on your side as the business owner to create that experience, and it’s a bit more of a one on one kind of thing happening there. I mean, no, one on one, but there’s a much more intense focus on the customer experience, so that they really, really love the experience. So you simplify for that, and that’s what we’re doing in splash now by the way. Gideon Shalwick: But I think what you’re just saying there about reaching out to your clients like that, I think you’re creating a really amazing experience there for them and I think as a result of that you’ll be able to charge more in the future for products and services that you might release. But yeah, if you haven’t read the book yet, it’s a really big eye-opener, I thought it was tremendously useful. Doug Morneau: That sounds awesome, I’ll have to take a look. I just fired off an email with a video before we hopped on the call here, and the guy I was talking to is a Detroit Red Wings fan, and obviously then if you’re a Canuck a fan because I look at our local team. So I just said, I’ll show you here, I sent him a picture, I went, “Hey, I have nothing against the Red Wings, I actually have a signed Gordie Howe Mr. Hockey jersey.” And I looked at the stats and I see that he opened the video eight times. So if you’re looking for engagement, there’s proof because you know that people are interested. So I wanted to change gears a bit because before we got going here you were talking about what you’re doing on LinkedIn, and I thought that for our listeners, we could share your experience and we could share my experience. So you’re going around building your LinkedIn with intent and purpose to connect and build a relationship, and so why don’t you just share what you’ve done and kind of what your results have been as an example, then I’ll follow and I’ll tell them how not to do it? Gideon Shalwick: Okay. Well, it’s been a very interesting journey for me, I’m relatively new to LinkedIn still, it’s one of the platforms that I just ignored for about a decade, right? So only earlier this year I got interested in it, and thought, “Let’s give it a go.” And what really excited me was when I published my first video, I had about 550 or so connections, I didn’t even know what a connection really was back then, I thought they were subscribers or something, which I guess that’s what they are. But anyway, I submitted my video, and within a couple of weeks, I had 27,000 views and over 200 comments on that video. And I didn’t know what happened, it was crazy, I think maybe a couple of things. One thing, it was my first video, it may be my first ever content on LinkedIn, so maybe they gave me a big of extra algorithm juice, or whatever it’s called. And gave me a bit more exposure to get me excited, that could have been one thing. Gideon Shalwick: The other thing I think is because of the vulnerability of the video, like the content that I created, the message has really resonated with people. But that got me excited, so since then I haven’t been able to repeat that success yet, but what’s interesting now I’m just over 1000 connections now of followers, I’m not sure what the difference is and how they get combined. But there are over 1000 people on my LinkedIn profile now that are either connections or followers. And what’s interesting, when I’m submitting video content to LinkedIn, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. So I’m getting between 10 and 20 sort of comments on a video. Which is not a lot in the big scope of things, but it’s a lot compared to how many followers I have. I’m blown away by the engagement percentage wise that I’m getting, so I’m hoping for that to just keep on growing. My disclaimer that I’m by no means a LinkedIn expert, so I’m really just learning at this stage and experimenting, and I’m happy to share my experiments. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug Morneau: Well, I think what’s interesting there is, first of all, you put videos, so that was the first piece of content, now everybody’s moving there. I’ve had a number of guests on my podcast recently that are video people. While I was away on that camping trip for two weeks because it rained and we were in a cabin so I thought, “Hey, I’ll just go buy an internet stick.” And I did it the wrong way, I went out and targeted people I didn’t know to build a larger following. So today I’m sitting around 22,000 followers. Gideon Shalwick: Wow. Doug Morneau: But I don’t get 10 to 20 comments. Now I haven’t produced videos, so I will be producing Linkedin videos, so it’s like you said, it’s really about how you get deeper relationships because you also shared that you connect with these people and have a bit of a conversation. So I’ve gone through this metamorphosis where I didn’t have the conversation, to now we do, everybody who requests a connection gets a response after we review their connection request, and then we start a conversation. Gideon Shalwick: Yes, I mean, it’s just like the real world, right? I think if people can notice that you actually care about them, and they’re not just a number to you, they respond. I mean, when I get connection requests, I try, and it doesn’t always happen, but I certainly try and reach out then. Sort of look at their profile a bit, and see if there’s something that we have in common or something that I could help them with or that they could help me with, and talk about that in the little chat. And more often than not, a conversation comes out of it, and sometimes we just jump on a Zoom call, and we have a chat just for the heck of it. There’s no motive to sell or to convince them about anything, it’s really just having a chat. Well, it’s more than just being social, I guess because there’s a business frame around it. [crosstalk 00:19:39] you’re on LinkedIn, there’s a business frame that comes with it, so it’s not like you talk about just going on holiday and your family, and stuff like that. There’s a business flavor to it, but it seems like more of a sharing sort of a conversation, we’re sharing and exploring and seeing if you can help each other. Gideon Shalwick: And it’s amazing from those conversations, you might only do it once, but then in the future when you publish content, those people come back and because they’ve got that relationship with you, they come back and they come and leave a comment. And sometimes, I think it’s like a snowball effect, I’m hoping to anyway and it seems to be picking up in that way, I think if you do this long enough and you start building those relationships with enough people, every time someone comments on your video post, they’ve got a following, right? And their following, it will show up in their feed, so for each new person you get to comment on your video, you get access to their audience. This is tremendous, so at the moment, that’s how the algorithm’s working and so I think those connections are way more important than people perhaps realize. Not just for having the connection but also for having or getting those people interested in coming back because they’ve got the relationship when you publish content, and then just by them leaving a comment, that opens up your audience a lot more. Gideon Shalwick: Which, I mean, it reminds me of the saying where, I’m not sure if it’s a saying, but I learned this from one of my mentors once where they said something along the lines of, “Each person that you meet, it doesn’t matter who they are, could potentially introduce you to at least 50 other people.” This was sort of before the days of social media. Now, I think that’s very much leveraged because each person you meet on social media can potentially introduce you to thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, depending on who it is. So I think that’s why I take it seriously when someone sends me a connection request, or if I connect with someone, it’s like there’s a real relationship to be built there, and I think there’s a real way of being able to help each other. Because it goes both ways, like when I leave a comment on their video or their content, my audience then gets introduced to them as well. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Gideon Shalwick: So I’m really loving the platform, I think at the moment, it’s really beautiful, and I hope it kind of stays there, I hope it doesn’t get messed up by marketers again. Doug Morneau: It will. Gideon Shalwick: Like all the other platforms. Doug Morneau: It will, that’s what Garret B says, right? All these good platforms are out there, the marketers come by and they mess it up. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, yup, [crosstalk 00:22:28]. Doug Morneau: Yeah, but I mean, those people will go by the side. So you said a bunch of things there, one was that you connect with a sincere desire to help people in a business format, and then it’s consistent and it takes time to build. So this isn’t a create one video and upload it and go, “I’m done now, I’m just going to wait, I’m going to go check my bank balance, or watch the money roll in.” It’s about building that relationship. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, it’s like- Doug Morneau: So how do we get … Gideon Shalwick: Just one more comment on it. Doug Morneau: Yup. Gideon Shalwick: I think it really is like growing a little garden or a tree, it doesn’t happen overnight, you’ve got to plant the seeds, you’ve got to water them, you’ve got to provide to nutrients and the soil, and the environment like the sunlight. It’s a nurturing sort of an approach to building relationships and audience, which is like I said, it’s no different than real life, right? And I think over time like at the beginning it might seem really slow, but as you grow, as you start building bigger trees and bigger plants, you start getting more of the light, I suppose, you get more of the sunshine. Doug Morneau: Well, I think it makes you more referable too, I mean, if people see, like, and trust what you’re doing, and they’ve seen you lots of times, even though they may not be a potential customer of yours, when someone’s looking for, “Hey, I’m looking for this video solution.” They go, “Oh, go over here, go see Splasheo, that’s the place to go.” So it makes you more referable be they’ve built that bit of a relationship with you. Gideon Shalwick: Yup. I’m going to give this a name, I haven’t heard anybody call it this, but I’m going to call it now, I’m going to call it the Tesla effect. I went to an event with Roger Hamilton once, so I’ll give him the credits for that. Where he asked the room, there were about 70 people in the room, and he asked the room, “Has anybody heard of Elon Musk and Tesla?” He just asked about Tesla, “Has anybody hear heard of Tesla, the car company?” And everybody’s hands went up, and then he asked, “Okay, how many of you in the room actually have a Tesla and would get a Tesla in the next year or so?” And only two people’s hands went up. He was like, “Oh, that’s interesting. See, you all know about Tesla, but you’re not all customers.” Which is really interesting. So I mean, imagine if you could have a Tesla effect for your business where everybody knows about you and what you’re doing? Gideon Shalwick: They might not be customers, but I mean, they might meet your customers and then introduce you to your future customers because they know you. So I think that’s definitely attainable with a place like LinkedIn, yeah. Doug Morneau: Well, and a way to stand out to be different than anybody else is posting content. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah. It’s like the word care or just caring, I think that really sums it up for doing good business. If you can just show that you care and that your team and your employees, that they also care about clients and your customers, and leads and future customers. People notice that I’ve been doing something simple on our Facebook ads where, you know Facebook, right? Where sometimes the comments you get there from your ads are not very wholesome, and a lot of companies would either just delete them or ignore them, and I don’t unless it’s really off the charts rude. But I keep them there and then I respond, more often now, with a video response. And that’s cool because you can do that so easily on Facebook, and then I address the person by name and I talk about the problem that they’ve highlighted or the objection that they have and I talk about it. And probably 80% of the time, those people who were a little bit rude to start off with, they have a turnaround and they go, “Oh, wow, cool, thanks for responding, I really appreciate that.” And it’s really cool. Gideon Shalwick: I mean, there was one guy, he was quite rude, but he made a really good point about our business model, and I didn’t actually know what to say because I thought he was right, I actually agreed with him. And I thought, “Man, what I do here? Do I agree with him now publicly and say that he’s right?” And I did, I ended up doing it. I created the video where I said, “Look, I actually agree with you, but here’s the situation, we’ve decided on this particular business model because of the stage that our business is in, and we have to turn a profit to be able to stay in business.” Doug Morneau: That’s how it works, yeah. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, “And so we would like to have the other business model, but we’re not there yet. Maybe one day we could change to it, but for the time being, we can’t.” And again the response I got from that person was just really kind, he was really appreciative that I took the time to respond. And I think if either you can do it, or someone in your team, I think again, it just shows that you care and you’re not just there for the numbers. It’s just showing that you care I think makes a huge difference. Doug Morneau: Well for me it makes it real if there’s a real person there. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah. Doug Morneau: I mean because when you’re putting up photos or putting up graphics or putting up quotes, it all looks nice because it’s been designed well. But when you get in front of the camera, that’s who you are, that’s where you’re at. Gideon Shalwick: It’s real, you can hide behind words, and you might even have a ghostwriter or someone doing your copy for you, and then you put your name on it. And no one will ever know that I was necessarily someone else that wrote it. But with a video, or even audio to a lesser extent, at least for the time being before AI kind of ruins that. But for the time being, people see you, they know that those words being spoken comes from you and that makes a big difference. Doug Morneau: Of your scriptwriter, but that’s okay. Gideon Shalwick: Right. Doug Morneau: So, how do we get people out of their chairs to start producing video and start using a tool like yours? We talked a little bit last time about the tool and people’s big hang-ups, and I remember you saying one of the hang-ups is people themself not wanting to do video. But what does it take to really get somebody going, to get them moving? How do you get someone to do it? I mean, I know I need to do it, it’s on my long list of things to do. Now we solved this, the content issue for me, it’s like, “Oh, I have 150 episodes, I guess I have some content.” Gideon Shalwick: Yup, you have a ton of content. So, I think that’s one of the key ideas here is that, if you’ve got audio content already, you can turn that into video content very easily. I mean, one of our templates is called the podcaster template specifically. So we just upload your audio, and then we turn it into a video for you with nice captions moving on the screen, little sound wave, little progress bar, and a call to action. Your logo animation at the end, it looks beautiful, looks really good. There’s a new one that we’re actually releasing soon where if there’s two people in a podcast interview, you can have pictures from both people in it, and the sound waves for each one, and if you recorded the sound separately, then you can have the sound waves moving separately for each one. I mean, it’s a really engaging video that you have just from a piece of audio content. So if you already have that, super easy to create video content and repurpose it that way, and we can certainly help with that. Gideon Shalwick: The next easy level is, basically what me and you are doing right now, I mean, we’re creating a ton of video content here right now and- Doug Morneau: And hopefully some of it’s good. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, you’ll be surprised how many really nice, valuable snippets come out of an interview like this, and what’s cool about it is that I don’t have to put on an act for example. Or I don’t have to think or prepare. Put it this way, I don’t have to prepare much at all. Well, I prepared zero for today’s call really, [crosstalk 00:30:58] to let you know. But I mean, because I’m speaking from experience, right? Doug Morneau: Sure. Gideon Shalwick: I don’t have to prepare, whereas with something that you’re pre-planning, like a preplanned piece of video content that you have to go and stand in front of the camera and press record, and go, “I’m going to record this thing now about this particular topic.” That can slow you down, whereas what we’re doing now is we’re basically just riffing about a topic that we’re knowledgeable about. And we’re just having a conversation, and what’s nice about that is, a conversation has a different kind of energy compared to when you’re just speaking into a camera by yourself. So it has a different energy, and it’s also easier to create because it removes that deer in headlights kind of effect where when people get in front of the camera the little light goes on for recording, they change. People change their posture and they get all nervous, and they start speaking like this, and they don’t know how to be normal, you know? Doug Morneau: Yeah, yeah. Gideon Shalwick: Whereas with a conversation like this, we’re just chatting, so it naturally creates engaging content. So, I think that’s a fantastic way of doing it, I mean, we’re recording this on Zoom right now, I’ve hooked up a fancy camera to make it look a bit nicer. But as long as you get good audio on both sides and a webcam, you’re good to go for creating video content on the fly like this. Doug Morneau: Yup, and I’m just using my laptop and a webcam, right? Gideon Shalwick: Exactly. Doug Morneau: So, can we spend just a couple of minutes and run through some content ideas. So one is repurposing podcasts, now for someone who doesn’t have a podcast, I want you to throw in some ideas. So we help our audience figure out how can they get started. So how about ringing up a friend and say, “Hey, you’re a reasonably attractive person, you’ll look good on camera, do you want to have a discussion, ask me some questions about my business and how I serve my audience.” And it’s not like the conversation we’re having, we’re on different continents, but it’s the same type of conversation, have you had experience or what do you think of that? Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, look I think that’s a fantastic idea because again it gets you in the conversational sort of mode, which removes the barrier of just being natural and just being comfortable on the camera. So I think that’s a great idea if you’ve got a friend, and you can use a technology like Zoom or Skype to record the conversation through video. And you don’t even think about it, you just do it, like maybe your friend, you can help them with coming up with the questions and then they can interview you. Or if you find a friend who is also interested in your area of expertise or you’re both sort of working in the same industry, you can have a chat about a particular topic that’s current and you’re just riffing. You’re just having a fireside chat basically, that’s really what you’re doing, and you record it while you’re doing it. I mean, Zoom is really nice in that sense because it records it locally for you, Skype you can do something similar with the right sort of software, there are other ways of doing it as well. You can fully fancy with it too, where you’ve got lots of expensive gear, et cetera. Gideon Shalwick: But I’d encourage you to start simple, just start really simple, Zoom is free, for example, and you can hook up with anybody in that sense to record a video conversation like this, and then after an hours worth of chatting you’ve got an hours worth of content that you can then chop up and get processed through either the Splasheo system, or whatever system you want to use. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Doug Morneau: So in that case, would they go back and re-listen to it and say, “Okay, here the snippets, this time, this time, this time, this time, and this time.” And send that to you, you chop it out for them? Gideon Shalwick: Yup, you can either do that yourself or if you value your time you can ask us to do it for you. So that will be part of premium service, and so part of what we do there as well, is you just send us the hour-long interview, right? The video file, that’s all you do, and then we might ask you a few questions in terms of what you want it to look like, in terms of the template. And from there, that’s all we need, so we take your video, someone goes through it, manually watched the video content, and then finds the valuable bits in there for you on your behalf. Then we cut it for you as well and export them into smaller, little clips, and then we have another person that then goes through that content again and figures out a catchy headline that you can use with the video. Because that’s the next stage then where we transcribe the video and put it all together into a really engaging format ready for social media. Like the square format, for example, works really well, it’s got the headline at the top and the captions down the bottom, and your video in the middle with a nice call to action at the end, and logo animation, and a progress bar. Gideon Shalwick: The whole lot, and then basically we go through your whole video, and then once we’re all done, we send it to you. So we basically send you a folder with a bunch of completed Linkedin videos that then you’ve got a video library to choose from, [crosstalk 00:36:16] content that you can publish. Absolutely, so, yeah [crosstalk 00:36:19]. Doug Morneau: Now what other ways can you create content for somebody who’s not done it before? Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, so did we mention this in this call or was it in our conversation before? I can’t remember now, but basically, if you already have other recordings, say from public speaking, maybe if you’ve been at an event and the event got recorded and you were the speaker, get that recording. Also in the future, if you ever speak on stage, make sure it gets recorded and that you get the recording because again, you can take that recording and get it chopped up into smaller pieces of content that you can then [crosstalk 00:36:51]- Doug Morneau: That’s a great suggestion. The other thing I was thinking of too was that the Linkedin videos are only two to three minutes long, maybe a maximum of five minutes. So if you’re going to shoot for a one to two-minute video, for those of you listeners that are bloggers, all you need to do is go back to your old blog posts. Again, repurpose old content, you’ve done the research, you’ve got it SEO’d. Go back and look at it and pull out two minutes of really good content, summarize that blog post so people get a takeaway, again so it’s done. Gideon Shalwick: I love that. Doug Morneau: Yup. Gideon Shalwick: I love that, and also coming back to something you mentioned earlier, to make it even stronger, is do the 80/20 thing on it, where you sort it by your most popular posts and then you basically just grab the top 20 of your blog posts and those are the ones that you then repurpose. Because you already know people are interested in that content, which I think that’s beautiful, and depending on how many posts you’ve got, you might even want to go the top 20% of the top 20%, which is your top 4%, I think. And just look at those ones first, so creating the content is actually not such a big deal once you know this little trick, I suppose, yeah. Doug Morneau: Yeah, I mean I’m thinking, my wife’s been blogging now for about two and a half years, health and wellness blog, and published a couple of blog posts a week. So that’s a lot of content and- Gideon Shalwick: She’d have a lot of content, yeah. Doug Morneau: Yeah, so I mean, there’s a very simple way, because I said to her, “Hey, you should do some video.” I tell her, “You should do it, I’m not doing it, but you should.” Gideon Shalwick: Yeah. Doug Morneau: So now this shortcut, I can say, “Hey, no excuse, you’ve got the content, let’s look at Google Analytics, let’s look at the topics that people are more interested in, and let’s again, repurpose that.” And out of one post that’s maybe 800 to 1500 words, you can probably get two, three, four or five Linkedin videos on one topic. Gideon Shalwick: Yes, and if it’s a text-based, I’m assuming these are text blog posts, right? Doug Morneau: Yup, yup. Gideon Shalwick: So, to turn that into a video you could either take little text bits and just read it out on a microphone, record it on your computer, and there’s an audio clip you can publish. Or if you want to use your phone or something like that and just take that topic or the important part of the blog post and just record a little video on it and flick that through the system. Some other ideas as well is you might have some preexisting content on YouTube, or Vimeo or whatever service you’re using. Or Facebook, Facebook Lives is actually a really good one too, one of our clients, they just send us their recording or their Facebook Live events, and then we go through that and snip it all up for them, and do the whole shebang for them. So that’s a really nice way as well, and again that’s an easy way for coming up with content, maybe you’ve done some webinars in the past. With webinars, I haven’t tested their engagement, but I would guess their engagement might not be as high because it’s kind of almost like a voiceover kind of video, right? Doug Morneau: Right. Gideon Shalwick: Because it’s slides instead of a person, so it might be a little bit less engaging, I don’t know, I haven’t tested that. But anyway, there’s another idea if you’ve got a bunch of webinars that you’ve done in the past and you’ve got the recordings. Again, boom you’ve got a ton of content there that someone can go through and find all the valuable bits. Doug Morneau: So there we go, so now we’ve removed all the barriers to entry for them to create content. Gideon Shalwick: Right, there’s a ton of content all ready to be repurposed for you, absolutely. Doug Morneau: Yup, that you’ve spent time and money, or your team spent time and money developing. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, and what’s interesting about this, I’m not sure if everybody shares this, but when I first came across the idea of repurposing content, my first response was, “Oh, sounds kind of boring and unoriginal because I’m just not creating anything new here, I’m actually taking something that’s been done and now I’m just massaging it into a new, shorter format or whatever.” So I had quite a negative perception of it. But then I started doing it, and because one of my concerns was that my audience would think the same and that they might not engage and respond as well compared to say, my normal properly recorded video content. But I’ve actually so far have found the opposite, and I think it has to do with the energy of the content. Like now, we’ve got very different energy compared to if I was just going to record a video just by myself. Because for starters, there’s no one else that I’m talking to when I’m recording by myself. So we’re not bouncing energy off each other compared to what we’re doing now, there’s a relationship here, there’s an energy. You might even crack a joke or two, and I might or might not laugh depending on- Doug Morneau: You’ve laughed at them in the past. Gideon Shalwick: No, I like your jokes, they’re good. Doug Morneau: Well, I’m a granddad now, so I had dad jokes, and those were bad, and now I’m a granddad, now they get even worse. Gideon Shalwick: Granddad jokes. Doug Morneau: Granddad jokes, they get worse. Gideon Shalwick: You’re way ahead of me, you’re way ahead of me, I’m still on the dad jokes stage, so good on you. Doug Morneau: What came to mind, what you were saying about not repurposing it, because I had that thought as well, and it’s funny that I heard you say it out loud, and what immediately came to mind were book summaries. So there’s a whole industry, right? There’s a whole industry where you can subscribe to book summaries, and if you think about it, what is a book summary? It’s just a super shortened version of the book, and people pay for that, like pay cash for that. Gideon Shalwick: [crosstalk 00:42:36], yeah. Doug Morneau: So your video could be a summary of a blog post, a summary of a podcast, summary of a video. So it’s a short sales message to hook somebody so they want more, and they’ll go maybe dive deeper into that one particular piece of content. Gideon Shalwick: Absolutely, I mean, just on the previous video that I did for Matt and Joe with the Hustle and Flowchart Podcast, one of the people there asked, “Where can I find the longer version of this video?” Because they liked the little one, and it gave them enough, sort of whet their appetite for the longer one like, “Where is it?” And I told them, “It’s not live yet.” Because it is not live yet, and I told them where to go and find the podcast, right? So I think it’s a great way for getting people to, if you’re a podcaster, to also introduce more people to actually consume the larger content pieces that you might have as well. Doug Morneau: Yeah for sure, I mean, if you connect with somebody and you like their energy, like there are some podcasts I listen to, I listen to it two times speed, I like the content but the guy just talks way too slow, it’s like, “Dude, just speed it up.” So I’m going to have a cup of coffee, put you on two times and off we go. Gideon Shalwick: Yup, and no offense to Americans, but we do find we have to speed up two to three times with the American accent. With Australians, we’re probably the other way around, you’ve got to slow it down about two times to understand what the heck we’re saying. Doug Morneau: Yeah, yeah. So the other thing that I look at when I’m looking at vendors, I mean, when I’m looking to hire a vendor or use a tool for myself or my clients, I look at a whole bunch of the things, and one of the things I look at is what else does the vendor do in addition to provide the baseline service? So that’s one of the things I mentioned to you before we got on the podcast today, I said, “Hey, can we have this conversation?” And what I noticed you doing, is I noticed you re-sharing people’s content that is using your platform because they’re hashtagging, hashtag Splasheo on LinkedIn, and I see it also hashtagged on Twitter and you’re re-sharing it. So for me, as a marketer, when I’m trying to make a decision of which vendor should I work with vendor A, vendor B? I don’t know what your pricing is compared to everybody else, but even if your pricing was slightly higher, I would pay the higher price knowing that if I create content that’s not offensive, that you’re going to re-share that because I am, in a way, I’m getting you as an influencer in your space. Doug Morneau: People who follow you because they like video, that’s why they follow you, they like your content, re-sharing my content. So that has huge value because well, it’s free advertising. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, it’s free exposure in a way, and also if you align with the right sort of vendor in that sense too you can gain more than just audience, you can also gain a lot of authority and trust, which is massive because if a vendor, particularly if they’ve got a sizable audience and a lot of respect in the market, if they share your content, that’s definitely a check for you in the right direction. So yeah, definitely, if you can find the right sort of people to do that with, fantastic. We definitely try, like if we spot content that’s been created using the Splasheo platform and people are okay with it, we like it or we leave a comment. Which then also shares it with our audience. I mean, we’re still growing, so hopefully as we grow, that will become more worthwhile for people, I guess it will also be more challenging for us to keep on doing that. But I think, yeah, if you can make that happen, it’s definitely to your advantage. Doug Morneau: And Tom Schwab from Interview Valet does that, right? Gideon Shalwick: Right. Doug Morneau: So he does a daily video, and he shouts out one of his interviews, and that was the other idea I had for content was like, “Hey, I’ve got all this content, I’ve interviewed all these really great guests.” And whether the listeners realize it or not, I enjoy it at least as much as they do because I often go back and re-listen to my episodes and I’m thinking, “Man this is good.” And there’s so much knowledge, like you, impart. I’ve listened to your podcast a couple of times, and when I send out the newsletter, and I recommend to listen to your podcast, again I’m listening to it. So yeah it’d be very easy just even to, if nothing else, but do a shout out to a customer, shout out to a local vendor, a local restaurant. I had a realtor in my area that was doing, he was going to different restaurants. Two different restaurants every day in the area that he served, and he would go in and eat, pay for his meal, it wasn’t trying to get a free meal thing. And then if he liked it, he would go on and he would give them a review standing in front of the restaurant, like a Facebook live. Gideon Shalwick: No, I think that’s great. I mean, you’re kind of scratching each other’s backs, but I mean again, I think it’s just being kind and caring. I mean, this particular podcast, what’s going to happen with this for sure is it’s going to chop up and when I publish one of those content pieces on, well it will be on LinkedIn for starters. I’m definitely going to be linking back to you, and your show, just like I did with Joe and Matt. And even though my audience is still small, I mean, that’s going to introduce you to my audience, and as I said, each new person you meet could introduce you to potentially thousands of others. Doug Morneau: Absolutely, yup. So let’s wrap it up, I just want to say thanks again, thanks for tuning in, I don’t know what time you’re in. I’ve kind of lost track- Gideon Shalwick: It’s only 10:00 in the morning here, so. Doug Morneau: Oh okay, that’s not bad, yeah. Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, it hasn’t been long since I’ve had a coffee, so I’m still in a good mood. Doug Morneau: I’m still drinking mine, yeah. I just want to say thanks for taking time, and thanks for doing this, and it was interesting, I mean because we reconnected because of your video. So, listeners, I was looking through LinkedIn, and I saw this post come up, I saw what Gideon had posted and I went, “Wow, that’s really cool.” And I made a comment. Gideon Shalwick: Interesting. Doug Morneau: Right? Gideon Shalwick: Yeah. Doug Morneau: And you responded back to me and you said, “Hey, too bad we didn’t do your podcast by video.” Gideon Shalwick: Yeah, right. Doug Morneau: I said, “Well, we can fix that.” So now here we are, resolving that issue. Having another conversation again, and that was just because of your comment on LinkedIn. Gideon Shalwick: Yup. No, that’s a really good point, and you’ve probably heard the expression it only takes a drop to start a river, and I don’t think it’s true, because I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to take one little drop, and you drop it in the middle of the desert into the sand. That drop just disappears right away, you need a lot of drops to go together, you need a cloud break to start a river. And I mean, individually they’re little drops, but I mean, I think over time as you build your audience, one drop is not enough. But you’ve got to keep on getting the one drops at a time and start building it together, and then eventually those drops together do turn into a river so to speak. But you can’t just expect to do this once and get a result, you’ve got to do it multiple times. And I mean, you never would have asked me to come on this podcast again unless I was doing those multiple drops off, excuse the pun, but multiple drops of those video bits that I’ve been publishing. Gideon Shalwick: And I mean, there’s going to be other flow-on effects as well, where more and more people see this and they go, “Oh, that’s cool, let’s have another chat again.” Or whatever else. So I think yeah, just that idea of its not just one drop, it’s multiple drops to think about when you want to start a river here on social media. Doug Morneau: Yup, there you go. And so with that in mind, I mean, looking at your packages and your pricing, the way that you’ve set it up, it’s very easy for people to get started where they can say, “Okay, I want to start at an introductory level.” And just send you content and every month, depending on what they choose, they’re going to get three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten pieces of content produced by your team that they can just repurpose. Gideon Shalwick: That’s right, and didn’t we set up a special page for your crowd, Doug? Do we want to send people there, or? Doug Morneau: I can’t remember, so just tell them where to find you. Gideon Shalwick: Okay, well I’m just trying to think, it’s Real Marketing Real Fast. Doug Morneau: It would have been RMRF, yup. Gideon Shalwick: I think there’s a page at, I’m just going to … Yup, there is. Doug Morneau: Oh, there we go. Gideon Shalwick: There’s a free trial that we set up for people if they’re interested, and at this stage of the game, it might change, but at this stage, you can still get four videos created. And we’ve got a team of people that do this for you, right? We don’t use the software, so it’s actually people that create the videos for you. So if you want to get the first four done and just get a feel for what the service is like, there’s a link there for Doug at Doug Morneau: You have a better memory than I do, I forgot about that page, and if you tag me in the video that Gideon does, I’ll make sure to share it on my Facebook, and LinkedIn, and Instagram accounts. Gideon Shalwick: Brilliant, thank you so much. Doug Morneau: Yeah, great to chat, thanks so much, look forward to seeing the next chapter in your life, how you’re moving the sales out for people and growing your following. Gideon Shalwick: Absolutely, and thanks again for the opportunity, Doug, it was so much fun. Doug Morneau: So there we go listeners, another episode of Real Marketing Real Fast, but this time it’s done by video, I’ve got my podcaster video face on so you can actually see who I am. Gideon Shalwick: Love it. Doug Morneau: And just here to serve you, serve you guys as my audience, and answer your questions, help introduce you to new technology and new vendors. And as I’ve shared before, my monetization strategy for my podcast is really simple. I want to find, identify, and talk to the smartest people I can in the industry as a way for me to screen and look for vendors and partners to work with myself. So that’s why I’m here, so I hope it helps you out, thanks. Speaker 1: That’s all for this episode of Real Marketing Real Fast. Now it’s time to take your marketing to the next level by visiting and downloading our advanced marketing white pages. As well as exclusive resources based on today’s episode, that’s dougmorneau .com. Until next time, we look forward to serving you right here on Real Marketing Real Fast. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS [just click to tweet] HOW TO MAKE ENGAGING LINKEDIN VIDEOS And what’s interesting, with LinkedIn videos, I am getting a disproportionate amount of engagement compared to any other platforms I’ve ever uploaded on. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Get in touch with Gideon: SEE SPECIAL OFFER Website – Splasheo Gideon on LinkedIn Find out more about Gideon: Gideon on Facebook Gideon on Twitter Links to other related podcasts and or blog posts: CREATE YOUR OWN WINNING VIDEO CONTENT STRATEGY GET RESULTS WITH ANIMATED WHITEBOARD VIDEOS
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Sep 19th, 2017
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Nov 5th, 2019
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