0:01

Crime. Hello

0:12

everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Real

0:14

Time Crime. I'm your host, Leo Lamar, and

0:16

I have with me my

0:19

compadre. You've

0:22

been working on a new title, not working

0:25

well enough. But it's Dmitri.

0:28

You guys, Dmitri. How are you? I'm

0:30

doing well? Thank you? How are you? You

0:33

know? Dmitri? I

0:36

think we know how I'm doing. I think we do. And

0:39

just to fill other people, and Leah is still

0:41

out of the country, I

0:43

did buy my plane ticket back for

0:46

next Tuesday. All

0:49

right, Well that's I know, it's exciting.

0:52

And um, if a

0:54

British boyfriend, not to brag,

0:56

but to brag, oh my gosh, you just

0:58

use the boyfriend were I know? I

1:00

know, I went to Europe and I bought the

1:02

first house I saw, so

1:08

um, just so we're clear, then, the crime that has

1:10

been committed is that your single life has

1:12

been assassinated by yeah,

1:16

yeah, by And we're referring to Adam,

1:18

right, and his name is

1:20

Adam.

1:22

Oh my god, poor guy. He's sitting

1:25

by himself on the bed doing work and

1:28

he just seems content. That's

1:33

what you need. That's a good

1:35

thing in a relationship. He

1:37

just looked at me. Oh

1:40

no, he just said help me. He

1:42

does not helped me. But bad news

1:44

for you, boo. I'm the only one here. He's

1:48

so trapped. Okay. Anyway, um, this

1:50

is a future crime for sure, a

1:53

future crime of fashion. Sorry,

1:56

Adam, you were great while you last

1:58

it. Anyway, you

2:01

guys, so many hilariously

2:03

odd stories this week.

2:07

Yeah, I mean it's and it's kind of a nice change

2:09

of pace from there's been some heavy stuff

2:11

lately, so it's nice to get. And not any crime

2:13

is good, but some of this stuff is very

2:16

strange. Some of the stuff is very

2:18

bizarre. And not that any of these

2:20

are ha ha funny. People are dying,

2:23

but they are strange, so let's

2:25

put it that way. Number one, Number two, Yes, I'm

2:27

in Paris for the keeping score following

2:30

along with my Instagram and for those of you

2:32

who are not, this has

2:34

really been I'm exhausted. I'm

2:37

I'm ready to come home, but I'm not not ready to come

2:39

home. You've been going for like, what is it like

2:41

six months? Now five

2:44

weeks? Same? But

2:47

you know what, I've never been to Europe, so I think I'm

2:49

just at this like a backlog for all the trips I should

2:51

have taken. Yeah, listen, um,

2:54

and your first out of Europe and you come home

2:56

with a boyfriend. That's pretty good, not bad,

2:58

right, I mean most people study it when they go

3:00

to college and they spend over six months. I didn't even

3:02

do that, so I would say this is my

3:04

college study abroad. I

3:07

also, you know, godboyfriend

3:10

and um

3:12

who knows, probably COVID. It's just

3:14

like really hard to say what else has been going on here?

3:17

So which of these things are you bringing home? Hopefully

3:19

not COVID, just COVID. Okay,

3:22

So, so Adam lives there, Adam

3:25

lives in the UK. No one cares about

3:28

besides us. Oh, I

3:30

see, I've

3:33

never seen to get so deflated. I don't think that just

3:36

means you don't want to talk about it. Yet it is not

3:39

that I don't want to talk about it. He lives in

3:41

London and we're going to figure out the distance

3:44

situation. M All

3:46

right, babe, do you

3:49

care that I'm telling everyone about our love life? He

3:53

said no. So, I mean he has to get

3:55

used to I remember, I want to stay with this guy. He was like, I don't want

3:57

to be in your set. Don't put me in your stand up,

3:59

and I was like, well, I don't want to date you, and

4:05

you do stand up you have a podcast, he's

4:07

willing to be in. It's all right,

4:09

good, you gotta come along for the ride. You know.

4:12

It's like, if you don't want to be in my stand up set, means

4:14

you don't want to be part of my life, right

4:17

because your life is a stand up set. Because

4:19

my life I just talked about what's going on. My

4:22

life is comedy, you know. I talked about what's going on. So

4:24

if people don't want to be part of that, then they don't want to be part

4:26

of this anyway.

4:29

So you know what, let's

4:31

just get back to crime. You know what really matters

4:33

today. We're gonna be talking about an Arizona

4:36

man charged after mowing down and

4:38

killing a bicyclist with his truck.

4:40

It was a hit and run. A woman calling out

4:42

an Indiana pastor for taking her virgin virginity

4:45

at sixteen. A sheep found

4:47

guilty and sentenced to three years in

4:50

jail for killing a woman in Africa,

4:52

And then we will be talking about our main

4:54

crime for today, the murders of Dennis

4:56

and normal Wood Druffe. A

5:00

feel like we just got to clarify one thing, because we said

5:02

these stories were lighter and more fun and

5:04

I was really just thinking about the sheep one.

5:06

Um, yeah, me too, to be honest, that's

5:08

just sheep going to jail is kind of a hilarious

5:11

thought. But also people are dead, so it's

5:13

not that funny. It's not funny.

5:16

Well you know us, and

5:18

by us, I mean me. Okay, So

5:22

alright, so the first story. You

5:25

know, look, I know that

5:27

this is a podcast and so most of you are

5:29

not looking at anything, but

5:31

I do need you to google this guy

5:34

because we're about to roast the ship

5:36

out of him. Sorry,

5:39

sorry, but this man looks

5:43

like an overgrown potato. He

5:48

looks like he swallowed a brick. He

5:51

does. He does have some sort of

5:53

melting um look to him,

5:56

you know, kind of a job of the hut melting. And listen,

5:59

I want this clear. Now, we're we're coming out.

6:01

We're not shaming this guy because

6:03

he's heavy. This is not a

6:05

fashiaming thing. This is a shaming this guy because he's

6:08

a douche bag who killed someone on a bike

6:10

and took off. If we're

6:12

not allowed to roast murderers, who are

6:14

we allowed to roast. Yeah,

6:17

and you know, it looks like he's

6:19

got a thyroid issue. M

6:23

Do you think he has tonsilitis

6:28

amongst the stuff.

6:30

Yes, it

6:33

does look like when you get um

6:35

an ice cream cone and they overdo it on the scoops.

6:38

Yeah, he looks now ed

6:40

from ninety fiance won't feel so alone.

6:43

Yes, good, he's got a twin brother.

6:47

Well, let's so let's explain what

6:49

he did. This way we can kind of hate him

6:51

even more. All right, Okay, So our first

6:53

case for today is an Arizona man charged

6:55

after mowing down and killing a bicyclist with

6:58

his truck. So

7:01

the culprit has been identified as

7:03

thirty nine year old Fernando Ramos and

7:05

his victim identified as six year old George

7:07

Cooper, who died on the scene of the hit and

7:09

run. I don't know why people think

7:11

that they get they're going to get away with hit and runs, do you No,

7:14

I don't. There's cameras everywhere nowadays,

7:17

there's also I witnesses everywhere,

7:20

and it's like you're in a you're in a truck with a

7:22

license plate with and this guy is

7:24

This guy doesn't blend into a crowd. No,

7:27

he sure does not. The Sheriff's

7:29

office received multiple calls for the collision

7:31

involving a car on a cyclist. When police

7:34

arrived, he'd already fled the scene, and

7:37

he didn't even try to help Cooper

7:40

and witnesses said that they saw his Chevy

7:42

truck crash into the cyclist, drag him

7:45

along the road, and then run him over

7:47

just before fleeing the scene.

7:50

So so let's back that up for a second. So if

7:53

you accidentally hit somebody

7:55

and you stop, that is the best case scenario.

7:57

You get out and you help him. This guy kept

7:59

going, therefore dragging this guy and ultimately

8:02

running him over and then taking off. So

8:05

zero regard for human life. This was a sixty

8:07

year old guy riding his bike. He

8:11

could have saved and

8:13

or helped at any point before actually

8:16

murdering him, but who knows.

8:18

At one point he was already dead. And

8:20

I understand, I understand panic

8:22

when things go wrong, but I think that's when

8:24

you're really gotta take over and you've

8:27

got to think, Okay, let's make this the

8:29

it's this. It's the same thing with the people that running

8:32

from anything. If you did it, I know you don't want

8:34

to own up to it because you're terrified. But make

8:36

it the best case scenario. When you people

8:38

start lying to the police, it's the same, it's the

8:40

same thing. Stop you're making it

8:42

worse. Anytime someone runs,

8:45

it's basically showing

8:47

an admission of guilt. You're

8:50

freaked out, you don't want to do you run. So

8:52

apparently he was biking. Cooper was biking

8:55

the northeastern lane of the road and

8:57

had a small trailer hitch to him when

8:59

he was struck. Even he a small trailer, it's like you

9:01

can't miss him. It was visible.

9:04

Yeah, that worried me at first when I first

9:06

read that, because small trailers are usually like kids

9:08

in the back, but apparently

9:11

not. Like, yeah,

9:13

no one else was hurt. Fortunately.

9:16

Why do you think people think they can just get away

9:18

with it. I don't know. I think I

9:21

think the initial thing has got to be their fear,

9:23

and they're just they just want to get out of there and hope

9:25

that everything's fine. But again, like

9:27

we said, not the right thing to do. Two,

9:30

you have to have like something

9:32

like this, And I'm not this guy. I don't put him in

9:34

the same the same category

9:36

as someone who goes out and and commits a murder

9:39

on purpose, because I do think this was an accident that

9:41

he panicked and ran from, but he still

9:43

now did murder someone. Right? Do

9:46

you think he knew he was dead when

9:49

he fled or do you think he just thought

9:51

maybe he was injured and someone come and help

9:54

him. I

9:56

mean, why not check? That's the best. Why

9:58

not check? Why not check? But

10:00

also, let's be honest. This guy has super

10:03

distinctive features. Like I said, he

10:05

looks like the Michelin man. He's

10:07

not Yeah, he's not blending into a crowd, right,

10:10

So so how does he

10:12

think that someone who looks this distinctive

10:15

will just be able to not get away with it?

10:17

That he doesn't think he's gonna get recognized and caught.

10:19

He's not an average looking person.

10:22

It's very specific, very specific.

10:26

Like imagine if you had balls but they were

10:28

under your ears. Well,

10:32

give me a moment on that one, because I haven't

10:34

thought about that before. Um,

10:37

he looks like he was a snake that just swallowed

10:40

a mouse. Like that's where we're at with this guy.

10:42

It looks like he's a flesh tire, a

10:44

flesh colored tire around his neck. Yeah,

10:48

Um, you're right. He

10:51

looks like one big testicle, just

10:54

live action, Mr potato Head. Yeah,

10:57

and this

10:59

is this is not even someone that is gonna

11:01

be like if he's seen, if there's like a red light

11:03

camera right or any one of those things, you're

11:06

going to see him through the windshield. Didn't know exactly

11:08

who this is. This isn't the type of guy that you run

11:11

into every day. So clearly

11:13

again not thinking because he

11:16

got he did get Thankfully he did get caught.

11:19

I just he did. He did

11:22

because he was so specific

11:24

looking that they were able to track him down.

11:27

Yeah, and not to be lost in this in the in

11:29

the roasting that we're doing with him, or the anger that

11:31

we're throwing towards him, is that a sixty

11:33

year old guy was out riding his bike and

11:36

and was killed. And we don't

11:38

know at what point he died, but I can

11:40

guarantee you if he dragged him and then ran

11:42

over him, if he had stopped right away and

11:44

done something, then things could have at

11:47

least been better. I

11:49

wonder. Yeah, man, this

11:51

is one of those things that just makes you feel like it

11:54

wasn't an accident because it's so

11:56

strange. Yeah, I mean, it could have

11:58

been there could have been like a road raiser, something

12:01

right, something so odd, not

12:05

that we're upstanding citizens or the

12:07

you know everybody I am.

12:10

I was just throwing Actually I was throwing myself in

12:13

the category with you. I figured you were already in that

12:15

category of not being um.

12:17

But shit, guys, do

12:19

the right thing, like try try

12:22

and act like you're living in a society. If you do

12:24

something that's an accident, limit

12:27

limit the repercussions for yourself and

12:29

for others. Dmitri.

12:32

The heart and soul of this podcast mostly

12:34

just the soul and the

12:36

heart. But

12:39

there's no brains, so we're no brains,

12:41

no brains. But but that's fine, we don't need that

12:43

here. And you guys, this next

12:46

one, I mean, this next

12:48

hot topic is really heartbreaking, not

12:50

that they're all not heartbreaking, but this one specifically

12:53

affects me. So a

12:55

woman calls out an Indiana pastor for

12:57

taking her virginity at the age of sixty

13:00

mean, and there is

13:02

a full clip where someone

13:04

has filmed part of it. Someone

13:07

has filmed part of her going

13:09

up and yelling at this pastor in front of the church.

13:12

So if you want to listen to that, go

13:14

ahead and take a listen later. But

13:17

it's I mean, it's did

13:19

you watch any of that? Did watched the whole thing?

13:21

And it starts with this pastor

13:24

speaking to his congregation and

13:26

saying, oh, I did something twenty

13:28

years ago. Um, you know

13:30

I committed adultery. Um

13:33

to say, plainly, I didn't make a mistake, I didn't have

13:35

any I didn't have an affair. I just had a misjudgment

13:37

and I sinned. And I'm here, I'm and I feel like I gotta

13:40

tell you. So I'm asking you for for your forgiveness.

13:42

So in the beginning, as you think these parishioners

13:44

with this very accepting of him coming

13:46

clean about something he said it was twenty years ago. Then

13:49

when he's done, this woman comes

13:51

up. Wait wait But also before you stay

13:53

that, he got around of applause after

13:55

that from the congregation standing

13:58

ovation. If I'm a standing ovation, okay,

14:01

And it's like bos Lerman got a twenty

14:03

minute standing ovation at can at the end

14:05

of Elvis, like that was deserved different

14:07

reasons. This this seems a little odd, okay,

14:10

no, no, please to me. So

14:12

So okay, I get parishioners see their pastor

14:14

come clean and say I too, ifs, and maybe they're like, okay,

14:16

so they give him a standing ovation. But he

14:19

did this, and he had to have knowingly done this,

14:21

so she must have said, hey, I'm going to tell people

14:23

about this, because then he came clean what he claims

14:25

after twenty years. She gets up and goes

14:27

to the microphone with her now husband and says,

14:30

it wasn't twenty years ago. It was twenty

14:32

seven years ago, and I was sixteen,

14:36

and all of a sudden, you can feel through

14:38

this video, you can feel the energy in this in

14:40

this church shift, and

14:43

all of a sudden, it's dead silent. She goes on to

14:45

describe some more stuff, and she,

14:47

you know, and she said she wasn't the

14:49

only one. That he molested women

14:52

fifteen sixteen seventeen, went on for years,

14:55

and that he took her virginity on the floor

14:57

of his office. Ye, and

15:00

she says, do you remember that. I know

15:02

you remember that, And

15:05

she approached with her husband, who then

15:07

also took the microphone, and

15:10

he was saying, you know, I met her right

15:12

after this, and you

15:14

know, we started dating right after this, and I

15:17

remember all this going down and

15:19

and this is all true, and

15:21

it's interesting because it seemed planned

15:23

to do it with her there, But there's

15:26

something that makes me feel like

15:28

either she agreed to just yes

15:30

and it and then decided to kind of just hijack

15:33

and tell the full story. And

15:35

she was saying, you know, I can call them, I can

15:37

call these other women right now, and I

15:40

can have them on the phone stating

15:42

exactly what you did to them,

15:45

or or do you think that. I mean,

15:47

it's just weird because you

15:50

know, obviously he's stepping down from the congregation

15:52

that he was saying that he sinned and

15:55

that he didn't make a misjudgment, that it was just sinning.

15:57

No, that's a miss judgments. It's everything

16:00

he said it wasn't along with what he said it was

16:02

is all of that. Yeah, it's a mistakes,

16:05

he said. I didn't make a mistake. You made many

16:07

mistakes. He says, I committed adultery.

16:09

And I gotta tell you, cheating on your wife was not

16:11

the worst thing that you did in that scenario, So don't

16:13

lead with that. This guy

16:15

is a full and piece of ship. Yeah. And

16:17

then so I don't know if there was an agreement where he's like, I'm

16:19

gonna come clean, but then he gets up there and

16:21

he lies about the facts, and

16:24

it's like, so, so now

16:26

you're just making it better on yourself. I

16:28

wonder, you know what, I wonder if

16:30

she said she was going to come forward and

16:33

he was like, no, no, I have an idea. How about I just

16:35

tell everyone in the congregation what I've done, and

16:38

let's let's call it even instead

16:40

of her, you know, going because the me too movement is

16:42

I mean, it could have been that. And then she just

16:46

decided to grandstand it. And

16:48

she said, so, I guess it went on for a for a

16:50

while. And she said, you know, as

16:52

she lived for twenty seven years in this prison,

16:54

and she said, wasn't till she got married with this husband

16:57

and she found the strength to to not feel

16:59

shame for this. And she says she

17:01

was sixteen. She he groomed her, and then he carried

17:04

on this thing as if they were it was consensual,

17:06

but it wasn't. And now

17:09

she's like, so now she says, she's finally feeling

17:11

free for having completed twenty seven

17:13

years she lived with this because she's

17:16

strong. No,

17:18

it went on and on, and it wasn't just for her, it was

17:21

other women as well. And I'm sure they'll come forward and

17:23

share all of their stories. And I

17:25

think, however, this was manufactured

17:28

to go down, you know, I

17:31

I think she's really brave. The fact that

17:33

she just came forward in front of all these people is talking

17:35

about getting molested, and

17:40

I mean rape, right, I mean this is rape.

17:43

It's super brave, and it's it's you

17:45

know, hopefully it's empowering to the other women

17:47

that that are feeling that shame as she was feeling

17:49

to to start to heal, is to start to feel

17:52

better. And I think she did it for them as much as she did it for

17:54

herself. And her

17:56

husband seems like a sweet, loving,

17:58

really compassionate man who also,

18:01

unfortunately, it does feel a

18:04

lot of times like women need a man

18:06

to back them up for people to take their claim

18:08

seriously, right, And so

18:10

in that same video, you'll see when I said, the

18:12

room started to shift, the people started.

18:15

The persons who once stood and applauded him

18:17

started calling back out is this true? How

18:19

old was she? So they started peppering him with

18:21

questions and that you could feel they were

18:24

I'm actually surprised he got out of there alive,

18:26

because you could feel them the anger starting

18:29

to brew up there. Right, it

18:31

got really hot, really quick, as it should have.

18:34

And you know, I think he tried to go

18:36

out gracefully,

18:39

but now it's disgracefully

18:41

because however grateful you can make. Yeah,

18:43

he tried to make it all poetic. I didn't make a mistake,

18:46

I didn't have an affair. I've

18:48

sinned, and now I'm asking for your forgiveness,

18:50

thank you. And he gets a standing ovation. He must have been

18:52

right. He must have been thinking, oh, I'm getting out

18:54

of this. Yeah, literally right up.

18:57

Yeah, And I'm so glad she got up and did what she did,

18:59

the strength that it took for her to do that,

19:01

and then for everybody to all of a sudden you

19:03

know, it's not the same thing at all,

19:06

but just because of the likeness

19:08

of it, when you go back to the Will Smith

19:10

thing at the Oscars, remember everybody applauded him

19:12

after the thing. It was like he got a standing ovation.

19:15

And it's like, I wanted people to turn

19:17

right then and there. And you know what, when when I saw

19:19

the standing ovation at the beginning of this was like, I really

19:21

hope there's more to this video. And when they started

19:23

to turn and they then you could see them as

19:25

she and her husband were walking out. They were reaching

19:28

out to her, and they were and there was you

19:30

know, lending her support and saying that they were there

19:32

and and asking for forgiveness for something

19:34

that they hadn't done. I

19:36

think the difference between Hollywood

19:40

and church is that church

19:42

believes in hell and

19:44

there's no God,

19:49

there's nothing, just

19:51

straight up else. So I used it burgatory,

19:53

I said, hell I said, but I said, no, I

19:56

think you know, it's, um,

19:58

Hellywood, pretty pretty

20:00

clear why these people start I I hope.

20:02

I mean, I'm actually happy that they turned

20:04

and started asking questions. I mean him,

20:07

and I'm glad. Yeah, because he, you know, like

20:10

we said, he thought, Okay, i'm gonna do this.

20:12

I'm gonna leave out some info. I'm gonna get it done.

20:14

I'll look like a hero, I'm gonna get out of here. And he didn't,

20:17

which is exactly the

20:19

beginning of what he deserves, lying

20:21

by omission. Yeah. Um,

20:24

but what I'm tired of. I'm tired

20:26

of is is people you

20:28

know, using their religion as like

20:31

a get out of jail free card. Okay,

20:33

we see it a lot nowadays. We see it with guns,

20:35

we see it with all this different stuff, and it's like, well,

20:38

you know God told me to do this, or you

20:40

can't do this because Jesus says it in the Bible.

20:43

You're not speaking for him, okay, And you shouldn't

20:45

be making laws for other people. So that goes. There's

20:48

a lot of stuff. Now I'm talking about guns, I'm

20:50

talking about abortion. I'm talking about people

20:52

pointing fingers that like family values

20:55

and and divorced families and religion,

20:57

and that's their excuse for everything. And

20:59

this guy right here, he tried to do the same thing. That

21:01

was his excuse. I've sinned and now I'm

21:03

coming clean. Thank you for forgiving me. It's like, hold

21:06

up, we're not playing that game anymore. And

21:08

I am a religious person. I did grow up going

21:10

to a church, but I don't I don't

21:12

buy the free pass thing. This really

21:14

reminds me of the Kevin Spacey ordeal,

21:17

who, by the way, is now going to be representing

21:19

himself in court because he wants

21:21

more stage time. Yea perfect,

21:24

but do you remember when Kevin

21:26

Spacey got me too? It's

21:28

like, whoever Kevin space seing this pastor

21:31

is working with for PR that person is getting

21:33

paid millions of

21:35

dollars. I mean, they have a

21:38

very good pr person. Kevin Spacey

21:40

was like, oh, yeah, you know what I

21:43

did read a young man, But it's

21:46

because I was afraid to tell people

21:48

I'm gay. I'm gay now see,

21:51

and and can't can't you just applaud

21:53

me for the fact that I'm coming out and I'm a proud

21:55

gay man. We're like, huh

21:58

right, hold up, and you know what that's excuse

22:00

it's the exact same thing as that guy we talked about

22:03

before that the hit and run. No, because

22:05

you know why while you were doing what you're telling

22:07

us you were doing with Kevin Spacey was saying,

22:09

you dragged somebody else down, and you

22:12

hurt someone else beyond you

22:15

know, hopefully not beyond repair at all,

22:17

but certainly a long journey to deal with

22:19

that. And no, you don't when you do that

22:21

and you take someone else down than the

22:23

the hero the heroic story of

22:26

I was afraid and now I'm not. No, because you ruined

22:28

other people's lives, right,

22:31

And I just think that these people who

22:33

think so highly of themselves, who are like,

22:36

yeah, so I did that thing, but

22:39

you know, I still deserve applause.

22:42

It's like, what right,

22:45

the guy still deserve to be loved by

22:47

everyone after I it's like, huh

22:49

and I'm being I'm being honest and I'm coming out about

22:51

it, yeah twenty seven years later,

22:54

because yeah,

22:58

same thing with Kevin Spacey. Yeah you're coming clean

23:00

because you got busted right

23:03

right right right? Uh them both

23:06

moving on. Yeah. And also it's like,

23:09

how dare you do that to the gay community,

23:12

right right, because there's people that are

23:14

that are legitimately struggling to

23:16

come out and they're not doing the things that you

23:18

did, but you're making it harder on

23:20

on everybody, and you're being selfish and

23:23

you're yeah

23:25

self or whatever. Okay, anyway,

23:27

Happy Pride month. Alright, So

23:30

we're moving along to

23:33

our next hot topic. This

23:48

one is so bonkers, you guys. A

23:50

sheep has found guilty and sentenced to three

23:52

years in jail for killing a woman in Africa.

23:57

I think that a sheep has been found

24:00

guilty and has been sentenced to prison. I

24:03

think Peter has gone too far this time. We

24:05

don't they don't need equal rights, you know what

24:07

I mean? Like this is the vegan

24:09

movement has to stop. I've

24:12

never heard of an animal being sent to prison. No,

24:15

this is bizarre. So the sheep

24:17

has been found guilty and sentenced to three years

24:19

in jail for killing a woman in Sudan, Africa,

24:22

in an area called a Coulo. I

24:24

probably mispronounced that I'm sorry

24:30

you to Matrid. It's reported

24:32

that earlier this month, the police in South Sudan

24:34

took a sheep into custody.

24:37

Do you think that they interrogated it? Where

24:40

were you the night of April

24:43

fifteen at nine pm?

24:45

You know, it's like what um?

24:47

After it attacked a forty five year old woman

24:49

named a Dude Chapping. It's reported

24:52

that the ram repeatedly headbutted her and

24:54

broke her ribs. Now, I gotta know

24:56

what the sheep said. Its motive was right,

24:59

I mean, but that's the thing. We we interrogated

25:02

it, it was found

25:04

it found it guilty. It's like okay,

25:08

so but also so unfortunately,

25:11

while she was recovering from the sheep attack,

25:14

she passed away from her injuries.

25:17

And I

25:20

don't know what else to say, but they

25:23

literally said they apprehended the ram

25:26

and then put it into custody. Do

25:28

you think it's Do you think it's a there's a bail

25:30

set for it. So I mean, they're gonna put

25:33

sent this to three years in jail. So there are they gonna

25:35

put this sheep in a in a prison, which, by

25:37

the way, is just a zoo, right, because

25:39

when you put an animal behind bars, it's a

25:42

zoo. First of all, clap

25:44

clap, clap, Peter loves you. Second

25:46

of all, the owner, by the way,

25:48

they said, is innocent and the ram is

25:51

the one who penetrated the crime. Perpetrated

25:55

I'm I I have

25:57

something on the mind. Who knows what it could be,

25:59

but um, I'm gonna need a moment. Okay,

26:01

Yeah, you can take the girl out of Paris, but you can't

26:03

take that I'm gonna stop the

26:06

girl. Okay, alright, So the owner

26:08

is innocent and the ram is the one who perpetrated

26:10

the crime, so it deserves to be arrested. And

26:13

apparently the ram was a neighbor of

26:16

this woman. And then

26:18

later on they said that the case will be

26:20

forwarded to customary court where the case

26:22

can be handled amicably. Okay,

26:25

So I appreciate the fact that the owner

26:27

is innocent, because unless he trained this sheep

26:30

to head butt and like showed

26:32

her showed him a picture and center after

26:34

that, then you know, fine, So

26:36

I'm glad that the owner is not being you know,

26:38

dragged into something because his sheep did something

26:41

ridiculous. I agree wholeheartedly.

26:43

However, I think everyone probably listening

26:46

to this podcast or you know, at least

26:48

that lives in the United States, is used to when

26:50

when an animal attacks and kills someone, that animal

26:53

is then euthanized. Yes,

26:56

like when dogs bite

26:58

humans, et cetera. Right,

27:00

and that fact, there was a story I just saw this

27:02

morning. There was a nine year old in like Washington

27:05

that was playing hide and seek outside and

27:08

I I was like a mountain,

27:12

lion or something attacked her. She's in the hospital.

27:14

I believe she's going to be fine, but it's like so

27:16

something like that, right, remember the kid

27:18

that fell in the zoo in Cincinnati and

27:20

the and then they ended up, you

27:23

know, killing the gorilla like this. I'm

27:25

not I'm not taking one side of the other, but that's the stuff

27:27

that happens. The fact that this sheep is being

27:29

sentenced to prison shows you a difference

27:32

in these countries.

27:35

Well. Also, if the sheep was a person, wouldn't

27:38

they be put

27:40

under death row perhaps perhaps

27:43

or whatever, depending on what the laws are there. Yeah,

27:46

I don't know what the I think that's what it comes down to. It's

27:48

a good point. Whatever the laws are, they're they're

27:50

very bizarre. I don't know how many animals

27:54

the animals they have killing humans there and how

27:56

many times they've had a trial like this. It doesn't

27:58

sound like they were scrambling for pressing it right.

28:01

Well. Also, let's be honest, how long did

28:03

the sheep live? Because three years could be

28:05

a life sentence. True, I

28:08

don't know. I don't know the lifespan of a sheep. I

28:13

think it's time to go to break And

28:15

this has been an episode of stupid news

28:17

coming to you live by leand Dmitri.

28:20

Al Right, guys, don't touch that dial. We'll be right back,

28:23

and don't commit any crimes while you

28:25

listen to a fabulous app bear ba

28:39

hey, welcome back to real time

28:42

crime folks, Sam, your hostly

28:44

A Lamar, and I have with me Dmitri Pappas

28:47

Pampas Pampas PAPIs

28:51

sorry, Tom Trie episode likes

28:55

living in Hell. Okay, Hollywood

28:59

was the baby? All Right, you guys, it's

29:01

time for our drum roll please

29:04

main case of the day. There's a very fast. Drum

29:06

roll, Thank you you guys. This show

29:09

Double Life, Double Murder is now streaming on

29:11

Hulu and there's a twenty investigation. Now.

29:14

If you have not heard about

29:16

the murders of a married couple, Dennis

29:19

and Normal Woodruff, you're about two. So

29:22

what happened? Here's the nitty gritty.

29:24

A friend discovered married couple Dennis

29:26

and Normal Wouldroffe murdered in their home

29:29

located in Rose City,

29:31

Texas, in October two thousand five.

29:34

Authorities quickly suspected the couple's son, Brandon,

29:37

who was the last person to see his parents alive.

29:40

According to reports, Brandon had dinner with his parents

29:42

and leader left for Abilene. Friends

29:44

of Brandon testified that he was supposed to pick them

29:46

up at five PM and Dallas the day of the murder for right

29:49

to Abilene University, but didn't arrive

29:51

until ten pm. After ten pm,

29:53

Dennis and Norma not good. Doesn't look good

29:56

for Brandon. Dennis and Norma were found

29:58

with bullets and stab wounds to their necks

30:00

and faces. So this

30:02

is a huge act of violence,

30:04

right because someone wouldn't normally be

30:06

dead after one bullet perhaps

30:09

one stab wound, but it wasn't. It wasn't

30:11

a just a quick crime where you think,

30:13

oh my god, what have I done? Clearly when you follow stuff

30:15

up with more,

30:19

right, whoever, this person was really one of these people

30:21

dead dead dead dead for sure. The

30:23

mother had multiple gunshots to the face

30:26

and her throat was slit, so you

30:28

know, someone who was very

30:30

angry or really wanted to make

30:32

sure that there

30:34

was no chance that they would live. Okay,

30:40

So the sun is the is the main suspect,

30:42

and like, like we pointed out, he was supposed to

30:44

be somewhere at five, he didn't show up till after ten.

30:46

If it's legitimately, is just a case of

30:48

running five hours late. Not

30:51

the great not the best day for that to have

30:53

that have been done. Okay, So then

30:56

authorities say I recovered weapon,

30:58

a dagger with one of the doms DNA

31:01

that they said belonged to Brandon

31:03

could have been used in the crime, and they found it

31:06

in a barn, and investigators

31:09

argued that the dagger was the weapon used to stab the couple,

31:11

but Brandon claimed that his father had accidentally

31:13

cut his hand with it long before. This

31:16

is starting to sound like the amount of ox case records

31:20

show that there were no signs of forced entry

31:22

or stolen items, and that the killer had cleaned

31:25

up in a bathroom of the home before fleeing. This

31:27

scene sounds like someone who A knew

31:29

the property well, b had access

31:31

to the property. See, didn't

31:34

want anything besides the

31:36

death of these two people. Right,

31:40

um, D knew

31:42

where the bathrooms we were and felt

31:45

felt clear enough on whatever

31:47

these two people's schedules were, that no one

31:49

else was going to come to the house at any point for

31:51

anything, right,

31:54

good point, because they felt they

31:56

had enough time to clean up in the bathroom.

32:00

Brandon was arrested six days later after authorities

32:03

found irregularities in his testimony. Oh

32:05

really Okay,

32:08

so you guys, now we get

32:10

into the nitty gritty. A jury found

32:12

Brandon guilty after hearing from the persecution that

32:14

Brandon had killed his parents to receive their

32:17

life insurance and live freely his

32:19

secret life as a gay man in Dallas.

32:23

So apparently he was going back and forth

32:25

from university where he would go

32:27

to Dallas and actually go out of state from

32:29

Texas to film adult movies.

32:32

Ak he was doing porn, gay porn, and

32:35

he was a gay man in this other

32:37

life that he had, but he

32:40

even had a girlfriend, and I

32:43

guess he was just living a full on double

32:45

life. So he was sentenced to life in prison

32:47

without the possibility of parole. He's already

32:49

served thirteen years of his life sentence

32:53

and he maintains that he is innocent. He

32:55

claims that this is an anti gay bias

32:57

influenced people and the jury

33:00

in his Texas Bible Belt City did

33:02

not want him to be free, and

33:05

since they had no other suspects, they just wanted

33:07

to pin it on him,

33:10

and Brandon says

33:12

that he was falsely characterized as a wild

33:14

gay man who was living a double life by the persecution

33:17

in order to convince

33:19

a very conservative jury.

33:21

He said, I'm innocent. I didn't kill my

33:23

parents at all. I think you should look at the totality

33:26

of the evidence instead of pointing to

33:28

any other information. Although

33:31

I did read that I guess his mom

33:33

had blonde hairs in her hand

33:35

when she was found dead, and they never tested

33:38

the DNA on it, and they don't know where the hair is

33:40

now. He does have blonde a share, by

33:42

the way, and you would assume that it was her trying

33:44

to defend herself against the killer and

33:46

that would probably really lock In this case,

33:48

authorities claimed that Brandon was living this double life,

33:50

skipping college classes, going to Dallas for wild

33:52

adventures. You know, this is usually

33:55

what the what um

33:57

what the prosecution does when they're trying to pin it on

33:59

some and as they paint someone a villain,

34:02

which is exactly what happened to a man in Ox case,

34:04

when that Italian prosecutor

34:07

was trying to paint her as Foxy Knoxy,

34:09

you know, this sex enthused

34:13

center who was having these like villainous

34:16

sex parties that were Satan

34:19

involved. It's like what anyway,

34:22

so they try to character but so and

34:24

you could see why this would work in a small Texas

34:26

town. Exactly having like weird

34:29

you know, weird homosexual you know parties

34:32

and filming that is enough to get people

34:34

in a small Texas town riled up

34:36

and wanting to shut that down. So you

34:38

could see that as as potentially

34:41

what happened. Right, And

34:43

so his grandmother, Bonnie, has

34:45

stood by his innocence, paying

34:47

for his legal fees and supporting his attempts

34:49

to appeal his conviction. The Innocence

34:52

Project of Texas is now reviewing his case

34:55

and the gun connected to the killings

34:57

was never found, but it's believed

35:00

he stole a gun from his ex girlfriend's mother's

35:02

house, and apparently the

35:04

mother said that the gun and bullets

35:07

were missing, and

35:09

it is exactly the type of bullets that

35:12

were found at the scene, and

35:17

it's very possible he had been there the weekend before

35:19

that he had stolen the gun, but

35:21

no one can prove it because they

35:23

haven't found the gun. But it seems a little

35:25

too convenient in my opinion, that

35:29

she is in fact telling the truth. The problem for

35:31

him is he says, don't

35:33

look at the fact that I had this other life going on.

35:35

Look at the what do you say that the

35:38

totality, right,

35:40

And he said, look at that. But right now, that's

35:42

all still pointing to him,

35:45

right, there's no other suspect. Look, he grew

35:47

up super popular that he

35:49

was really beloved. He was outgoing,

35:51

he was an animal lover. He was president of the Future

35:53

Farmers of America. He had

35:56

a steady girlfriend, and he was voted

35:58

most school spirit. So you know, when you

36:00

have someone who's painted as this really good

36:02

kid, it's um

36:04

away for them to say, no, how could it be

36:06

him? He's so gentle, he's so lovely, everyone

36:09

loved him. He couldn't be him being the murderer.

36:11

I find the Yeah, I find the life

36:13

insurance thing a little more difficult to believe because

36:16

but I know people do this, but

36:20

killing people doesn't get

36:22

you that life insurance right away. You're going

36:24

to be a suspect, especially because of it. I can't

36:26

imagine that he did this because he wanted that. It

36:28

seems way too careless. I

36:31

just wonder if it's FROs

36:38

But that could be a reason, because

36:41

if you start back a second, you froze there, you said.

36:43

I just wonder. I

36:45

just wonder if his parents were

36:47

against homosexuality, and

36:50

so he felt like he could never be himself or come

36:52

out. And maybe maybe it's something that's

36:54

just been brewing for a while. Maybe,

36:56

and that's certainly a storyline that that could

36:58

be feasible. But know, just leave,

37:01

man, leave. We need a motive.

37:03

And and so that's the other thing

37:06

is like I want more information about

37:08

this case, and obviously I think we'll receive

37:10

it on But apparently

37:13

eight of the twelve jurors admitted to believing homosexuality

37:16

was morally wrong. Do

37:19

you think that they should have been able to serve

37:21

on the jury. No, no,

37:23

I don't. Uh no, I don't, because

37:25

that's the main thing that they're painting him with. And

37:27

you know, then you're getting into his lifestyle.

37:30

Is fine if if he

37:32

was doing those things, that is in his right

37:34

to do. But that's what it

37:37

goes back to what we said earlier in the show. You

37:39

can't then have someone come in that's super religious

37:42

and be like, no, I think that's

37:44

wrong. Therefore I think he killed his parents.

37:46

There's two different things. I

37:49

know. I also, you know it

37:52

took him thirteen years to finally give a TV

37:54

interview and explain why he's innocent. That

37:57

seems like a very long time. I feel

37:59

like you would want to do earlier if you were Indeed,

38:01

I feel like you would want to do that earlier.

38:03

This feels like some sort of weird last

38:06

Hurrah cry for attention, wait

38:08

to Gardner support. I don't even know.

38:11

I mean, I don't know who the other

38:14

suspects are. It just seems like

38:16

all science point to him.

38:19

But I think the question is why

38:22

is it really all about this life?

38:27

Like, did anybody interview the grandmother? Was

38:29

she on the stand during this the grandmother that supports

38:31

him that

38:33

I don't know, because I'd like to hear

38:36

her story about the about the family dynamic

38:38

and this and that and why she thinks he didn't do it or

38:40

what I mean. Listen, this is this

38:43

is the movie Watcher and me going into

38:45

this. But it's like who knows, you know, like American

38:47

Beauty, who knows what's going on with the dad? Right?

38:49

Who knows what the situation was growing

38:51

up, if there was any kind of physical abuse or this and

38:53

that. So I think all of that kind of stuff

38:56

plays into this. I don't think you can

38:58

just pit it on that he was a while guy.

39:00

And this reminds me of did you ever hear that there

39:02

was that case, um,

39:04

that whole family got murdered in like Indiana

39:07

and wanted It was a pastor and his family and

39:09

this is Wasn't this a case we covered last week

39:11

Piketown massacres. No, this is oh

39:13

no, no, no, this is a different family that murdered

39:16

people, got it, got my mom?

39:18

So the whole family, well, I mean sorry,

39:20

there's so many of them,

39:21

so and

39:23

so. Um, what it came out to was everybody

39:26

said, oh, the father

39:28

and his son were fighting, the son wanted to go to the

39:30

prom. Father said no, So then they said

39:32

he went and killed his whole family because he wanted

39:34

to go. Because then he went to the prom and they picked

39:36

him up. I didn't know his family was dead. It was

39:39

this whole thing, and everyone's like, that's what it was. He was this

39:41

and they were all quick to point it out and

39:43

to shut the case. And this that now another

39:46

true crime podcast. And I don't mind giving their name

39:48

because they don't do what we do. But

39:50

they counterclock did something and they went through

39:52

and investigated this whole thing, and

39:54

now they're like, oh, there was a tie where somebody

39:57

owed money in Florida and they found this whole other

39:59

thing going on. And that kind

40:01

of reminds me of this story because it's

40:03

so obvious that it was this guy. But you know what, if you

40:05

had people that knew what they were doing, they

40:07

could have shown up and they would make it seem

40:10

like it was They could easily make it seem like

40:12

it was someone else. Get out of there, clean up

40:14

what they needed to clean up, get out of there, and make it seem like, oh, the son's

40:16

the obvious choice. So I don't

40:18

I can't say for a percent that that he

40:20

did it, because I think there's a lot of variables

40:23

in play. Well. Apparently authorities

40:25

claimed that his timeline of events were super

40:27

inconsistent when he was asked about the murders.

40:30

And you know, we've seen this before where they get

40:32

forced confection force confessions

40:34

because they're nervous or shocked or or

40:37

physically harmed into giving a false

40:39

confession. They just want to go home, or they want to

40:41

take a deal or whatever it is, because they're scared

40:43

and afraid. But apparently

40:47

so they were killed in a brand new home. They

40:49

moved to a new home. They were downsizing, and they

40:51

were killed in their new home. And according

40:53

to the timeline, there was maybe about like nineteen

40:55

minutes in between when people actually saw

40:57

Brandon and the last phone call that

40:59

was made to the mom

41:01

by someone else that the murders could have happened

41:04

in if it was Brandon. And that's a pretty

41:06

short amount of time. It

41:08

is a short amount of time. And did they go out to dinner

41:11

or were they because I would love to know if they were out to

41:13

dinner, I'd love to know people that saw them there was

41:15

that, you know, a contentious dinner. Were they arguing

41:17

where they there was between

41:21

them, any any people that saw them before that,

41:23

and the grandmother I'd love to hear from.

41:26

Yeah, it's interesting because this

41:28

is a little reminiscent of the Gabby Petito

41:31

Brian laundry case, where you know, you see

41:33

all these photos on Instagram and then being a super happy

41:35

couple and everything's hunky dory, and then

41:37

when you look at the nitty gritty, they're fighting constantly

41:40

and there's physical and verbal abuse

41:42

happening regularly, and

41:46

we just really don't know what the

41:48

picture looks like up close and

41:50

personal. But

41:53

that's also don't know until it becomes a TV movie,

41:55

exactly until Netflix luss, Now, what's

41:57

up? You know?

42:01

Man? This case is so heartbreaking, but

42:04

it's interesting because there are

42:06

just no other suspects, at least

42:08

in the amount of Knox case. There was another suspect,

42:10

like there's usually or

42:12

theories, even theories. There's

42:15

there are no theories about anyone else, right,

42:18

No, and that doesn't mean that there isn't you

42:20

know, something like guy was pointing up before there could be something

42:23

someone could have stopped by in between

42:25

that time. So so random

42:27

and seems so unbelievable, but to be honest,

42:29

all of this seems so unbelievable because

42:31

that's just not who we are. But it

42:34

goes back to what we said, man like, if you're

42:36

there are plenty of people that don't like their kids,

42:38

There are plenty of kids that don't like their parents. Just if

42:40

if, if they don't agree with your life, just move

42:42

on. Just you

42:45

know, there's always the possibility of new

42:48

neighborhood. Maybe people saw who

42:50

was moving in. Maybe maybe we don't

42:52

know what the parents were involved in, and there was something much

42:54

cheaper happening, just like in the Piketown murders

42:56

where then suddenly they started chasing it back to Carton.

42:58

Well whatever they chase down to um

43:04

anyway. Um, So yeah, we

43:06

just don't know. But

43:09

I would suggest watching the

43:12

Hulu show Double Life, Double Murder,

43:15

And what do you guys think? What

43:18

do you guys think? Do you think that Brandon

43:22

killed his parents brutally murdered

43:24

his parents for life insurance so

43:26

that he could start his life

43:29

anew and have freedom. Do you

43:31

think that? Or do you think that this case

43:33

will probably go unsolved and that

43:35

they may never find the killer. Yeah,

43:40

I mean call and let us know, But I think

43:44

me personally, the life insurance seems

43:46

like a far fetched to me, but I know people

43:48

have done it, and I could

43:50

buy that the jury was a little skewed

43:53

because it was a small town of Texas and what his lifestyle

43:55

was doesn't mean he didn't do it. That's I mean.

43:57

I could also if I want to go running why

44:00

old with my thoughts here, I could think maybe

44:02

somebody set him up to be guilty because

44:04

of that, because they had a problem with that, because

44:06

they had a problem to parents or whatever. So oh,

44:09

the plot thick ends Tomitri

44:12

right, good, good one. I'm gonna virtually

44:14

high five you appreciate that,

44:19

Yeah, guys, d M s let us know what you think. Also

44:22

for the people who are sending me d ms like hey,

44:24

I've got two crimes for you with video

44:27

that no one knows about. I don't want

44:29

those. Please send them to the police. I am

44:32

very worried about those. Yeah, yeah, or send them to Dmitri.

44:35

I'm not the person that should be looking at those, um,

44:38

but I do appreciate it. Especially

44:41

has a boyfriend. She spends way less time in her M

44:44

just kidding, she's there. Keep writing to her.

44:46

No, my manager told me he was like, uh so you're

44:48

getting some weird d M s. And I was like, okay, cool

44:51

anyway, but do call us, you know,

44:53

like why not call us and leave a voicemail.

44:55

And if the voicemails like, hey, I saw these two

44:58

crimes and I've got videos, fine, fine,

45:01

but you know, just let

45:03

us know if there's a casey thing we should look into. We're

45:06

always having our eyes and ears

45:08

open for the hot tips,

45:11

except for when they should go to the police directly.

45:14

Well, but I also feel comfortable

45:16

to listen if you if this is what are safe space, and

45:18

you want to bring it to us, then we can discuss it

45:20

and maybe send it onto the police. Yeah.

45:22

Actually, yes, you're

45:25

right, Dmitri. You're right, You're right, right

45:29

right, if you have information, get it out there, you

45:32

know what. I guess, that's what we're here for.

45:35

And if you've committed a crime and you're trying to make it better

45:37

on yourself by not coming clean, just don't

45:39

make it make it easy and clean

45:42

on our voicemail. That's

45:44

not that's not wearable. But but if we're

45:46

are safe before your safe space, this is

45:49

right. Disagree, agains you

45:51

know what, fine, call us, but you

45:53

know, I keep the really intense ones

45:55

off the voicemail. I

45:58

mean, I guess they're all intense. Huh No. It's like if you're

46:00

like, oh, I committed petty theft and

46:02

stole the staplers from my old place

46:04

of work, you know, let us know. Yeah.

46:07

Wow. If you're like, oh, why Jay walked

46:09

in l A, you know, keep that to yourself. That's

46:11

very serious. It's very very serious. Yeah,

46:13

we don't. We can't handle something like that. That's

46:15

a crime punishable by death in Los Angeles. Imagine

46:20

if a sheep jay walked. All

46:23

right, Well, I think we've come to I think

46:26

we've come to the end. And just

46:28

as a reminder, you guys, the

46:30

voicemail is eight six six twenty one crime.

46:33

That's eight six six twenty

46:35

one crime, eight six six twenty

46:38

one crime. That's eight six six two on two seven

46:40

four six three. I just love the fact

46:42

that Adam is sitting there in this room watching like

46:44

you had to do that in front of him and he had to sit there

46:46

and watch it. You guys still together. He's

46:48

passed out. Do you think we bored

46:51

him to death? I just looked

46:53

over to see his look of mortification.

46:55

And in fact there was nothing. He's just he's

46:57

sleeping. And I will say that he

47:00

is committing a crime right now because I've told him a

47:02

million times. But I'm like, no outside clothes

47:04

on the bed and he's passed out on

47:07

the pillows where I put my face

47:09

with his dirty jeans. Um,

47:12

we're gonna have a talk about this.

47:15

This relationship is over before it started. You

47:20

guys follow us on Real Time Crime

47:22

Pod on Instagram. You can find me at le

47:24

Lamar with two rs on Instagram,

47:26

Twitter, my Lee Lamar dot

47:28

com and Leon

47:30

Lamar at five hours on TikTok for

47:32

show dates. Usually just Instagram is the place

47:34

to find me. I will be back in l A next

47:37

week, so I will start doing shows in l A again.

47:39

I will be at the Improv. I got some other shows

47:42

lined up already and I think

47:44

I'll be doing some shows in London Sunday Monday.

47:47

So if you're in London and you hear this Maniana,

47:50

comma see me, do you have me? I'll give

47:52

you my schedule. I don't know what that was.

47:55

I think that's Italian and then and that was

47:57

that's the only place I haven't been to in Europe. Since I got

47:59

here, I mean, besides all the other places. I no offense, but

48:01

I don't need to go to Germany. Been

48:04

there, genetically done

48:06

that. Um, they can you know whatever.

48:09

I just so

48:11

Dmitri, we can find you on the internet. Just

48:15

had Dmitri pappas. They

48:17

had Dmitri Papas. Yeah, you don't need the

48:19

Southern accent when you write it a

48:24

s. Dmitri, Do you

48:26

hate me? I do? Not really

48:32

happy. It's better than

48:34

people who go papas. Anyway,

48:37

you guys, this has been real. UM, love

48:40

you so much. Stay safe out there.

48:42

Don't commend me crimes. Talk to you next

48:44

week. Bye. It's

48:47

real time crop real

48:50

time gro I

48:53

mean, is it actually real time? I'm anything?

48:56

Is that thing we say? We say? Got

48:58

it? Okay, see you next for

49:00

more real time crime, only on I Heart

49:02

Radio.