0:01

Crime. Hello,

0:12

we one, and welcome back to another episode

0:14

of Real Time Crime. I'm your

0:16

host Leo Lamar and I have with me sometimes

0:20

now oftentimes Dmitri. Hello,

0:23

oftentimes Dmitri. I'm

0:26

in paradise. I know you are. And this

0:28

is the first time we're doing this podcast, like all

0:30

the way around the world. It's

0:33

nine pm here, and I

0:35

will say that it doesn't make

0:37

it any easier the later it gets for me,

0:39

and it doesn't make it any easier the earlier

0:41

we do this for me, So it's never easy for

0:43

me. That was the whole reason we sent

0:46

you over there was because we're like, we could do the podcast

0:48

a regular time, but it'll be nighttime for her.

0:50

It'll be perfect and Leo will

0:52

finally be awake. Well, let me tell

0:54

you, I could sleep as late as

0:57

you will let me. Oh boy. And

0:59

I'm in a eza in case anyone who's interested,

1:01

No, I won't say Abitha because apparently

1:03

that's not actually how you're supposed to say it. It

1:05

annoys me anyway, so yeah,

1:08

and mostly because it annoys Dmitri. Today

1:11

we will be discussing a

1:13

couple of hot topics, some of your

1:15

favorite I's only got a sexphone operator right

1:17

now. I don't know what they sound

1:19

like, but sure, sure, sure,

1:21

sure how much it's

1:24

twenty dollars per minute. So of

1:27

course we've got two amazing guests for you

1:29

today, and we'll be talking about The

1:31

Big Con, which airs on Apple

1:34

TV Plus and

1:36

on Apple Podcasts May six.

1:40

So get excited because we've got guests

1:42

who are gonna be speaking to the nature of

1:44

that show and the podcast. Our

1:46

first guest today is James Lee Hernandez.

1:49

He's a multi Emmy and pg A

1:51

Award nominated filmmaker and critically

1:53

acclaimed podcaster. He recently

1:55

directed, wrote, and edited the five

1:57

time Emmy nominated HBO origin

2:00

old documentary series mcmillions with

2:03

his creative partner Brian Lazarte, who will

2:05

be meeting next Hernandez executive produced

2:07

the series with Mark Wahlberg, Stephen

2:10

Levinson, Archie Gibbs, and Lazarte.

2:12

Hernandez as a founding partner of fund

2:14

Meter, a TV and film production company specializing

2:17

in Stranger than Fiction, scripted and unscripted

2:19

content. Recently announced, Hernandez

2:22

and Lazarte are writing, directing, an

2:24

executive producing two documentary series

2:26

for Apple TV Plus through fund Meter, The Big Con,

2:29

and The Jet. Both shows are slated

2:31

to be released in two and

2:33

then we have Brian Lazarte. He's an Emmy

2:35

nominated filmmaker and editor. His credits

2:38

include a variety of award winning documentaries

2:40

and series, most notably mcmillions

2:42

for HBO, which he wrote, directed, executive

2:44

produced, and edited alongside James Lee

2:46

Hernandez. His four part Apple

2:48

TV Plus original docs series The

2:50

Big Con and Apple TV Plus original

2:53

documentary series The Jet will be available to

2:55

stream this year. Some other credits

2:57

may include Katie Perry part of Me three

2:59

d a, HBO's Emmy Award winning Sonic

3:01

Highways, fed Up at ESPN's

3:04

Emmy Award winning Hawaiian The Legend of

3:06

Eddie Aku, thirty for thirty. I

3:08

mean, the list goes on and on, and we

3:10

are so excited to be speaking with them

3:12

today about their new show, The Big Con,

3:15

which is a four part Apple TV Plus

3:17

documentary series with a companion podcast

3:20

about Eric c. kN hilarious

3:23

that his last name is Con when he's a con man.

3:27

Yeah, I mean, it's hilarious who defrauded

3:30

the government and taxpayers over half a

3:32

billion dollars. Former Eastern Kentucky

3:35

attorney Eric S. Kon is

3:37

known for committing the largest social

3:39

Security fraud case in history. The Big

3:41

Con examines his larger than life story,

3:43

the people he defrauded, and his inevitable run

3:45

from the law. The trailer described Cohn as one of the

3:47

biggest lawyers in Appalachia and

3:50

his celebrity was unavoidable. He used his riches

3:52

to attract porn stars, throw

3:54

out rageous parties, and open to Halloween

3:57

themed brothel. My kind of guy. He

3:59

had ventually caught the eye of law enforcement after

4:02

defrauding taxpayers in the United States. Out

4:04

of mill subscribers

4:06

can watch the four part documentary series and Apple

4:08

TV Plus, and anyone can listen to The Companion

4:10

Show on Apple Podcast when both premiere on

4:13

May six. M

4:59

HM, Hi James and Brian, So nice

5:02

to meet you. Hello, nice to

5:04

meet you as well, and Leeah. I

5:06

don't usually record from what looks

5:08

like the inside of an insane asylum,

5:10

but I am in a BISA,

5:13

not to brag, and I'm this is the

5:15

only location that has WiFi. There's

5:17

no five G on this island. I mean, nothing

5:20

works here and yet I have three

5:22

bars of service here. So this is the room that I'm

5:24

podcasting in today. I don't want to tell her that her

5:26

regular apartment looks more like an insane

5:29

asylum than her hotel room. But well,

5:33

he's not wrong that that actually

5:35

that journey took me all over the place. One

5:37

I was going to think that you actually were insane

5:39

asylum, and I learned her. And

5:41

now I'm a little upset that we're not at some party

5:44

with you right now on the beach. So I'll

5:47

deal. Well, I do have three

5:49

brain cells left, so I will end up in

5:51

an insane asylum. Comes full

5:53

circle really at our our l

5:55

A premiere last night and we're

5:58

up a little late, so we thanks

6:01

for the invite, guys, not that I could

6:03

have made it, just you know, wanted to be invited

6:05

so I could say, no, I'm in a pizza. Yeah,

6:10

understandable. Just so you know,

6:12

I gave you both very big intros with all

6:14

of your credits right before this, so

6:17

just so yeah,

6:23

so just yeah, And that's

6:25

the show, ladies and gentlemen, So just pretend that you feel

6:27

really loved by us and respected if that's

6:29

okay, Yeah, that easy.

6:32

I mean, it's show business, baby,

6:36

So we already told people a little bit about

6:39

the big Con and we're very excited for

6:41

your new series and the Companion podcast.

6:44

So now we've got a ton of questions

6:46

for you to hit us

6:49

gently. I mean, I'm not

6:52

Will Smith, you know, yeah,

6:55

true, he was. He

6:57

was bobbing and leaving. You know, he's doing

7:00

great. I mean the most notable hit now is Dave Chappelle

7:02

last night, and then Chris Rock came on

7:04

and said, was that you Will Smith? You guys

7:07

heard about this? I'm sure yes.

7:10

I mean as a comedian, I find this terrifying.

7:13

Terrifying. It is like that's the that's

7:15

like the terrible thing about this is that

7:18

now that's all of a sudden like normalizes

7:20

something insane like that happening, which it

7:22

absolutely should not be. And hopefully

7:25

it goes back to the seventies, eighties

7:27

and nineties of the Academy Awards next

7:29

year where there's some insanely large stage

7:31

that people tripped all over themselves.

7:35

I also missed just seeing those videos in general.

7:38

But yeah, that's just very unfortunate

7:41

and like nobody should have to deal with that. Yeah.

7:44

No, there's been some sort of opening where

7:46

even the NBA playoffs now people are like storming

7:48

the courts. It seems, you

7:50

know, more at a rapid pace and more

7:53

frequently people are running on and

7:55

interrupting things. And I mean, obviously it's

7:57

got to have something to do with with a notoriety

7:59

and that's TikTok and this and that. But it's like it's it's

8:02

it's kind of insane. I

8:04

think you think this is going to be the norm.

8:06

So I'm just I'm pretending

8:09

for a moment that like this is just a

8:12

fluke, uh that we're experiencing

8:15

at the moment. Yeah, I

8:17

think that reality TV has become so rampant

8:20

that it's blending so much with society

8:22

where people feel like they have to

8:24

do all of these crazy things to get noticed,

8:27

you know, TikTok, reality television

8:30

and and it's everyone's just one upping each other

8:32

constantly. And I don't think that these are challenges, so

8:34

to speak, but I do think society

8:36

has become unrealistic with what

8:39

people can and cannot do. You know, there's no proper

8:41

morals anymore. And

8:44

wanted to talk about but

8:46

right up your guy's alley though, like the Tinder swindler,

8:48

right, he he swindled people out of all this money and so

8:51

what happened? They're like, Oh, he's gonna get his own TV

8:53

show, So why would these people see consequences

8:55

accept the potential upside to doing

8:57

stuff like that. Speaking of ch

9:00

if you guys could check your pockets, I've already

9:02

stolen your identities and your money. But

9:05

thank you so much. I hope to get a TV

9:07

deal out of this. Yeah.

9:09

Yeah, I mean that is a really fascinating

9:11

thing as you start to look at as true

9:14

crime has gotten more and more popular and

9:16

really what has now been deemed true cons

9:19

uh, it almost feels like, in a

9:21

certain sense, there's the annadel v level

9:24

of know how she achieved

9:26

what she wanted to achieve. Her whole thing was wanting

9:29

to be famous and recognized

9:31

and be this whole hous thing. There is an entire

9:33

TV show, scripted TV show

9:35

on Netflix about her, and she won.

9:38

It's it's like the end of the movie seven,

9:40

Like, even though you think that person lost,

9:43

they actually did achieve the thing they

9:45

wanted. It's true. And

9:47

as someone who's in ABISA getting

9:50

a v I P experience and

9:53

not taking any of the g A routes, I will

9:55

say v I P is always better. Thanks

9:59

for the continuing to rub that in. Yeah,

10:02

I feel like we should do a shot every time she mentioned

10:06

we didn't get wasn't

10:08

coming through yet. I don't know what's happening,

10:12

and Adelvia and Adelvie keeps winning. Okay,

10:14

So you guys just really quickly right

10:16

from millions to the big Con. What

10:20

led you to your fascination with con

10:22

artists and swindlers to begin with? I

10:25

don't I don't know if it's necessarily were

10:27

attracted to con artists or swindlers.

10:30

I think we're just I am

10:32

sorry what I mean,

10:35

you know, it's quite the dating. Well,

10:38

the the the attractive

10:40

component of mcmillions was that

10:43

this happened, you know, in

10:46

the in the nineties when all of us were

10:48

playing this crazy game, right, um,

10:51

And so it's pulling back the curtain at like

10:54

what was happening behind the scenes, and it's incredible

10:56

fraud story. And at the helm of it

10:58

was this uh as con artists,

11:00

right And in this case, because

11:03

our main character is named con Uh,

11:06

there is certainly a natural attraction

11:08

to this person. But after doing

11:10

a fraud story like mcmillians, like we weren't

11:13

we weren't really thinking, Hey, our

11:15

next project is going to be necessarily a fraud

11:17

story, and and if we did it, how

11:20

can we do it different? What's

11:22

something that we hadn't really tapped

11:24

into in this type of genre. And one of the

11:26

things that we didn't have with mcmillions

11:29

was Jerry Jacobson, who was the

11:31

you know, the main person right

11:34

at the helm. We had everyone else talking about him,

11:36

and the series really didn't suffer.

11:38

We don't feel like for not having them, but

11:41

for the big con we knew

11:43

we wanted to hear from Eric himself

11:46

and we he was actually one of

11:48

the first people that we reach out to to really

11:50

see if we could build his trust and

11:52

if he could participate and how

11:55

could we make that happen. And through

11:57

that process, he revealed that he'd been writing

12:00

kind of his life story. He shared it with

12:02

us and it was like, you know, this

12:04

insane, uh rose colored

12:06

glasses view of his his

12:09

life. It read like a movie. So uh,

12:11

we knew that that was going to be an ingredient that would

12:14

make this significantly different. But

12:16

the stakes of this story are so much greater

12:19

uh than mcmillions, And I

12:21

think we were just captivated by the

12:23

possibilities of where this story can go. No one had

12:26

really done a deep dive on this before. But

12:28

I mean this is insane. Obviously you go back to the

12:30

guy's name is con right off the bat,

12:32

maybe he's destined for this, but I mean he

12:34

stole more than five fifty million and

12:36

social security benefits. Like,

12:39

yeah, obviously we don't

12:41

want to spoil the you know everyone's gonna watch it anyway,

12:44

But how does it How do you go about

12:46

something like does this? Does this? Did it trickle

12:48

in? He's like, I'm gonna start with this and then just realized

12:51

what a grand scheme it could be and just kept

12:53

it kept snowballing in

12:56

a sense, Yeah, he started out just as

12:58

a regular attorney doing sales with security

13:00

benefits and just in general and eastern

13:02

Kentucky, the two

13:04

main counties are Pike County and

13:07

uh and Floyd County, and there two

13:10

basically counties that are propped up completely

13:12

by coal mining and and the

13:14

eighties, seventies and eighties, Pike

13:17

County had more millionaires per capita

13:19

than any other county in the nation. Now

13:21

it is one of the poorest counties in the nation because

13:24

coal just is going away. It's

13:26

really almost fully pulled out of the area.

13:29

But part of that is coal mining is

13:31

a very very difficult profession, and

13:33

so you have a lot of younger

13:36

people, specially young men that are in their forties

13:38

and fifties, that are now just totally decimated

13:41

by working in the coal

13:43

industry. They can't work anymore, they can't stand,

13:45

they can't really sit for long periods of time, and

13:47

so they need to go on these benefits to

13:49

help them for the rest of their lives. Eric

13:52

saw this and also saw the opportunity

13:54

that a lot of these people don't know lawyers.

13:57

They don't they it's all word of mouth.

13:59

They just well, you know, who did you like

14:01

a friend and neighbor, who did you get your benefits

14:03

from? Okay, I'm gonna go to that person. And

14:06

so he bought out every billboard in the small

14:08

town. He did all these crazy

14:10

commercials. He bought out

14:13

like almost every ad

14:15

in the newspaper. They were doing radio ads, it's

14:17

songs. He was really, as

14:20

he referred to himself, a marketing genius

14:22

in the sense that everybody then knew

14:24

Eric con is the person you go to to get your benefits.

14:27

And what they didn't understand is that behind

14:29

the scenes, Eric was getting

14:31

these rubber stamps to just put

14:34

anybody on benefits because he

14:36

had public officials and judges on

14:38

the payroll. Wow,

14:42

I mean, that's straight up mafia style, it

14:46

is, and it's wild because it's

14:48

not really that complex of

14:50

a scheme. It's the

14:52

the tried and true. You

14:54

know, you scratch my back, I scratch yours.

14:57

Um. But at the same time, it exposes

15:00

this massive flaw in the system of

15:02

social security because the

15:04

reason, one of the reasons con was so

15:06

successful is that he was getting people

15:08

benefits in like two months. Normally

15:10

people had to wait eighteen months to two years

15:13

to get their benefits. And that

15:15

is all because of the way social security

15:18

works. It just takes so

15:20

so long to get you approved

15:22

to get these benefits. If the system worked

15:24

better than things like this wouldn't happen. It

15:28

seems to me, excuse me. The people

15:30

that are best at this, whether

15:33

it be the mcmillions or this um,

15:36

they have to have two things. They have to be smart, right they

15:38

have they have to be smart to pull this kind of thing off.

15:41

But they have to just give zeros

15:44

about anybody that they're affecting. I

15:46

mean, right, they don't care about anybody

15:48

else. Well. Eric

15:50

C. Khan is one of the most fascinating

15:53

complex characters. I think in

15:56

a documentary series. Uh we

15:58

when we non biased opinion, it's

16:00

it's obviously can we start

16:03

calling him Eric con artist? Please?

16:06

I mean he just I

16:09

think when people watch the documentary series,

16:11

you're gonna go into it thinking

16:15

you know who he is. Uh,

16:17

and you're gonna have strong feelings about

16:19

him, and then by the fourth episode,

16:22

by the end, you might have a completely different feeling

16:24

about him. Uh. And are

16:27

you gonna make us like this guy? Yeah?

16:30

Reasoning is he giving all the money to charity? I

16:34

don't even I don't even think like that. I think it's more of

16:36

a feeling that you might have. Um,

16:39

I don't know if you'll know how you'll feel. You

16:41

you're just gonna feel different. Um.

16:43

But you know when you talk about like

16:46

what is it about these people? Is it narcissism?

16:49

Is it greed? Uh? Is it the

16:51

lack of shame? Right?

16:54

Which you know it very well could be. Um,

16:57

and that could be a superpower, right, Like I don't

16:59

give him so I'm gonna all right, I don't know.

17:01

Wow, he's been acting really strangely

17:04

are we are we allowed to swear you

17:08

haven't listened to the podcast, which is clear, but I

17:11

mean, well, or you didn't listen to me thirty seconds

17:13

ago I said, zero seconds

17:15

ago. Or you haven't listened to any of my stand

17:18

up. Yeah. No, just go on, guys, go

17:20

ahead, please please feel free to curse.

17:22

Feel free to curse, all right, But you

17:25

know, at the at the point in which

17:27

you learn about how

17:29

crazy this crime is, right Eric,

17:31

I mean, social security is not a

17:34

stexy um like

17:36

backdrop for a crime. And

17:38

it's one of the reasons why he got away with it

17:41

first so long, because people weren't paying attention

17:43

or people just didn't understand it. And

17:45

when you try to dig in, it's

17:48

a little complicated. And so one of the things that

17:50

we really worked hard at was find

17:52

a way to really help people understand

17:56

this in a really entertaining and

17:58

fun way. And because there is a lot of humor,

18:00

there's a lot of you know, just

18:03

quirky, uh, stranger

18:05

than fiction components of the story. But

18:07

there's also this great tragedy. I mean,

18:10

when when Eric does this, you

18:12

know, gets away with her for ten years, uh,

18:15

when he finally gets busted, he goes

18:17

on the run, and while he's on

18:19

the run, this crazy thing

18:21

happens in eastern Kentucky, uh,

18:24

with everybody who was associated

18:26

with him in one way or the other. Um.

18:29

And it's part of the devastation of this story

18:31

as well. I feel

18:33

like we it's hard to follow up questions about

18:35

that without giving away too much. It feels

18:38

like true, yeah,

18:40

well you know, Bob, and weave through the

18:43

minefield of giving too much away.

18:45

Ye. It

18:57

sounds like there's a lot that that that that is

18:59

going to happen. And so it's a four part series,

19:01

right, correct. So it's a four

19:03

part documentary series on Apple

19:05

TV Plus called The Big Hunt coming out Basis

19:08

and um. It

19:11

really takes you through the journey of Eric

19:15

and you really start to understand who

19:17

he is. But at the core of this entire

19:19

thing are these two whistleblowers, Sarah

19:22

and Jennifer. They worked

19:24

for the Social Security Administration in one

19:26

of the local offices in West Virginia and

19:30

they had been ringing the alarm

19:32

bells for years that something

19:35

was going on with one

19:37

of the judges and with Eric Kahan. But

19:39

they were only on one side of it. They couldn't

19:41

really figure it out, but they were staying, Look, this

19:44

is not supposed to happen the way that this

19:46

is going. And it

19:49

is fascinating because until Damian

19:51

Plata, who wrote the Wall Street Journal article

19:53

about this, they

19:56

weren't even recognizing local

19:58

news wasn't wanting to cover it. People

20:00

that at work that they were supposed to report

20:02

any sort of wrongdoing or anything to just

20:05

turn their backs on them and and a lot and

20:08

retaliated against them, try to get them fired.

20:11

Um. And so we we've

20:13

really seen this journey what it means to

20:16

stand up for what you think is right, because Sarah

20:18

Jennifer didn't get any sort of benefit

20:21

at all out of standing up against the

20:23

Social Security administration. Actually quite

20:26

the opposite. They were chastise

20:28

and really like and they they

20:31

people try to get them fired, but

20:33

they stood up for what was right. And it also

20:35

shows, you know, with Damien stepping in

20:37

and shining a light on this and then all of a sudden

20:40

that leads to a Senate hearing that leads to investigations

20:43

happening. Um. It shows

20:45

why the news exists because you

20:47

know, all of us, as individual citizens,

20:50

there's only so much we can do. Our voice can only

20:52

be so loud, But when you have the megaphone

20:54

of an EFC, like the Wall Street Journal, that

20:56

really holds a government entity to a task.

21:00

It's interesting what you said. I find

21:02

that more common nowadays, where

21:04

people who are afraid to do the right thing or to speak

21:07

up because it's it almost it's

21:09

like it doesn't matter the people that say, oh,

21:11

hey, this is people are being hurt by this, this

21:13

this is being done, we need to stop this. Then all

21:15

of a sudden, those guys get slandered to those guys

21:17

get and it's like it's it's a it's

21:19

a fine line to walk. So I think there's I think

21:21

heroes in that sense kind of stand out

21:23

more nowadays when they can get stuff done

21:26

and get people behind them. It's hard.

21:28

I mean you even see it with the Me Too movement where

21:30

some people who come out against people who

21:32

have harmed them. Now

21:34

people don't want to work with them for whatever reason,

21:37

and it's difficult to come

21:39

forward. But you know, I would

21:41

like to just pivot really quickly and maybe

21:44

go back to talking about Eric. But Eric

21:46

was apparently super popular in Kentucky,

21:49

right, and he was touted

21:51

as this like modern day Robin hood.

21:54

H where do you think that

21:57

that characterization came from?

21:59

If you can give us a little nugget without giving

22:01

too much a way, Well, in a

22:03

lot of ways, he really

22:06

did want to help people, or

22:08

at least on the surface, well

22:11

it appeared, I mean Elizabeth Holmes said the same

22:13

thing, right. I

22:15

mean, he you know, he was

22:17

born in that region of the

22:19

country, and so he had seen first him

22:22

his parents were, you know, in the cold camps

22:24

and uh, and so he'd seen extreme

22:26

poverty. Um. And so I think that there

22:29

was an inherent like interest in

22:31

wanting to do something for

22:33

his area. UM. Now, people

22:36

can argue that that's not what his motivations

22:39

were, certainly, but he was

22:41

providing benefits to people who needed

22:43

them, and he was providing them

22:46

faster than anyone else, and he was guaranteeing

22:49

them when other people were having to wait

22:51

for a year and a half or more to get

22:53

their benefits. He was saying, hey, I can get it too

22:55

in thirty days, like when you don't have

22:58

an income, like you

23:00

can't wait a year, especially

23:03

if you've got real medical problems, like how are you

23:05

supposed to survive? Or

23:08

eighteen months while you wait to get

23:10

an easily check of nine dollars a month

23:12

from the from the federal government. So and

23:15

that's usually like at most. So he

23:18

was able to do something that

23:20

no other attorney could, and

23:23

everybody who went to him just sall like, okay,

23:25

well this this person is saving my life

23:27

right now. Um. And when

23:29

you think of Robin and do you think of you know, stealing from the ridge

23:31

and giving the poor like it's a victimous crime, It's

23:33

like, well, Eric, you know, had his

23:36

deal with a with a judge and he was you

23:38

know, basically cheating

23:40

the system and and getting money for

23:42

people faster because of this you

23:44

know corruption that was happening within his

23:47

you know, popular people. But his

23:50

you know, this idea of it being

23:52

a victim was crime. And like, oh, the government

23:54

has all this money, so who cares if I'm you

23:56

know, taking a few million to help my

23:58

my neighbors here get their benefits

24:00

faster. But that isn't

24:02

the case. I mean, we all like as far

24:05

as you know people in the States, right, like we all

24:07

pay in at the system, right our taxes go into

24:09

this safety net of social security,

24:11

and we don't think about it now because it's like especially

24:13

being young, we're thinking like, oh, it's our

24:16

parents are grandparents like dealing

24:18

with social Security. But there's a huge

24:20

portion of this fund that's allocated to the stability

24:22

benefits. It's a designed for people that if

24:24

you can't work because you've got injured on a job

24:27

or just you know, felt ill

24:29

and can't you know, perform anymore,

24:32

like what you know, what safety

24:35

net do we have? And this is it? And deaps someone

24:37

take advantage of it is essentially someone

24:39

who's stealing money from all of us. About

24:42

him, sorry, as you're talking about him, I like

24:45

him more and more. I'm like, ah, I see what he was likable.

24:47

I knew that's gonna happen. Now she's gonna

24:49

want to know if he's singled there it is. Well,

24:52

that does get into the side of Eric.

24:55

That is really interesting because

24:58

we talked about an episode and we get

25:00

a very deep into it in episode

25:03

two. But he's had a few wives,

25:05

so he's always looking back at the list.

25:07

Really, it sounds like there's hope

25:09

for me. I stand

25:12

by the modern day robin Hood for you.

25:14

I stand by the modern day robin Hood nickname, because

25:16

if Robin Hood was like the world

25:19

is so upside down. Now. I think that's exactly how Robin

25:21

would Robin Hood would act now, It's

25:23

just it wouldn't be that that glorious like

25:26

stealing from the bridge. There'd be some sort of side

25:28

takes, some sort of shitty thing on the side. I swore

25:30

for you guys, and so

25:33

I stand by that nickname. I think you can have it, and Leah,

25:35

don't pursue a relationship with him. I'm not

25:37

going to, no question. Do you think

25:40

that he actually thought he was going to get away with it?

25:43

Oh, you know, we've

25:45

talked to Eric a lot, and it's been really fascinating

25:48

to see the process

25:50

of topping him over the past almost

25:52

three years. At this point, Um,

25:55

he never necessarily thought

25:58

he was going to totally get away with it. He

26:00

has been described and even himself

26:03

said he kind of he likes to take risks.

26:06

One of his best friends and old assistants

26:08

said that she felt like he was addicted

26:11

to risk taking. And you

26:13

know, in this situation the

26:16

with one of the judges he was working with main judge,

26:19

they talk about and we have this in the

26:21

series that yeah,

26:24

they could do something and if anything ever went down,

26:26

they just take it to the grave. But as

26:28

we all see in this day

26:30

and age, there's just way too much evidence, way

26:32

too much of a paper trail. Uh.

26:35

Technology is too good to be able to just

26:37

keep anything secret basically anymore.

26:40

Um. And so it

26:42

is definitely in a situation where

26:44

you just try to stay present and think,

26:47

well, this is working now, and you know,

26:49

in the future, I'm sure I'll be able to

26:51

figure something out to get to get out of it.

26:53

Yeah. There there's a lot of different ways

26:56

to think about this, because when we

26:58

were making mcmillions, UH,

27:00

there's always the people who are in

27:02

in you know, working with Jerry

27:05

Jacobson that said like, okay, this is the last one,

27:07

this is the last time. But with

27:09

Eric uh and what's revealed in the documentary

27:12

series, and we talked about it early on, it's

27:14

just the relationship he has with this one

27:16

special judge and between

27:19

the two of them. Uh, there's you

27:21

know, the judges helping rubber stamp all these

27:23

people through the system, and the

27:25

judge has what is called judicial

27:28

independence. So there's

27:30

kind of this loophole in the system

27:32

where they have the ability

27:35

to make decisions whether or not someone

27:37

gets benefits independent of anybody

27:39

else. With no oversight and that,

27:42

and and that's how they realize like,

27:44

hey, there's nothing anybody can do about

27:47

what we're doing. Um I can

27:49

put a hundred percent of the people through

27:51

the system and nobody can do anything

27:53

about it. Uh. But obviously,

27:57

as the you know, this goes on for years

28:00

and years, and these whistleblowers who

28:02

actually worked, you know, within the Social Security

28:04

Administration are saying, hey, something

28:06

is not right here, like there,

28:09

this system is not it's not designed

28:11

like this and it's not supposed to be functioning

28:14

like this. But you you'll see within

28:16

the documentary series like just how broken

28:19

it is that, you know,

28:21

they couldn't they couldn't get the word

28:23

out. They couldn't they were trying to like make

28:26

the point to supervisors,

28:28

they were trying to go to press, they were trying to go anyway.

28:30

No one wanted to touch it until this

28:33

one Wall Street drone reporter independent

28:36

on his own, started looking into

28:38

this and realizing, like,

28:41

how is it possible a judge it's approving

28:45

of all cases that

28:47

he sees when the average

28:49

you know, administrative law judge like does like sixty

28:51

and this guy is like doing twice the three

28:54

times as many cases per years everybody, Like it

28:56

just doesn't add up, like of

28:59

the people you see not be disabled. Wow,

29:04

But but doesn't it also show

29:07

the loopholes and the issues with

29:09

the system itself. It's almost like he should be thanked

29:12

for showing the ways in which people

29:14

can calm the system.

29:16

Yeah, not really, we

29:19

can say that that he

29:23

exposed the issues. You

29:27

guys don't want to thank a criminal, that's so weird.

29:29

Yeah, I'm

29:31

thankful that when we have a story to tell

29:34

that includes them. But yeah,

29:36

but really it does show like huge,

29:38

very huge flaws in Social Security and

29:41

that is the massive underlying

29:43

thing with us. We we lure you

29:45

in with the craziness of Eric, but

29:47

there's actually a point to this entire

29:49

situation, which is Social

29:51

Security administration really

29:54

has a lot of huge flaws. It's one of the

29:56

largest entities in American

29:58

government. It's one of the largest budgets,

30:01

and if there's a lot of money, people are going

30:03

to try to exploit it. But this really

30:05

shows that human

30:07

beings that are waiting for their benefits, that

30:10

need those benefits shouldn't be waiting a year

30:12

and a half. They need help now. And

30:15

to be able to show how

30:17

this is exploited and it's

30:19

funny. And when we talked to the Senate

30:21

Subcommittee of Investigations who

30:24

looked into this to really lead onto

30:26

this big Senate hearing, which is

30:29

a very climactic moment in the series.

30:32

They talked about the fact that they

30:35

came to the realization and senators came to

30:37

the realization that nobody had really asked

30:39

for records from the Social Secure administration

30:42

for about fifty years. They kind

30:44

of just let Social Security do

30:46

their own thing. But every

30:48

single government entity needs oversight.

30:51

It doesn't matter what it is. There's

30:53

a reason for checks and balances because

30:57

things can get loaded, things can get continue

30:59

to run in a certain way, become very comfortable,

31:02

and if you're not trying to make things more efficient,

31:04

then you're just hurting the people who need it most.

31:07

Yeah. I mean, I know that we don't have

31:09

as much time with you as we want, so

31:12

maybe we could just ask a final question. Great,

31:16

thank you, So that'll

31:19

be a goals perfect. So you know

31:21

that you know you've studied multiple

31:24

con artists at this point through the years,

31:27

do you feel like there's a common through line or

31:29

a common thread that they share personality

31:32

wise that you've seen or noticed. Yeah,

31:36

I think that there. I mean, I don't

31:38

know if there's necessarily a common

31:41

through line, but there's

31:43

definitely the uh

31:46

ability to as

31:49

James pointed out before, is like to take

31:51

that risk, you know, inherently, Like

31:53

we all kind of ponder like if

31:56

you could you know, if you I mean we

31:58

talked about with Mgmion Psyche if you saw you

32:00

know, a wallet on the ground and had

32:03

you know, ten thous dollars in it? Uh,

32:05

Like what compels you to

32:07

pick that wallet up and return

32:09

it to the rightful owner with all

32:12

the money in it? Um? But if no one's around,

32:15

like, and you need the money, Uh,

32:17

what's not to stop you from just taking

32:19

it and saying, hey, this is my lucky day.

32:21

And we're always you know, we find ourselves

32:24

in these unique moments of

32:26

life where we're conflicted

32:29

or we we have to make a choice about

32:32

what's the right thing to do and what's the wrong thing to

32:34

do. And I think what's fascinating

32:36

with this is it's an illustration of what happens

32:38

when someone leads, you

32:40

know, leans into that temptation.

32:43

Uh, when someone says, hey, I'm

32:45

just gonna go for it. Um, I think what

32:47

happens in a lot of these cases is you

32:50

get away with it once and

32:52

you're like, oh my gosh, there was a thrill to

32:54

it perhaps, or like, look,

32:57

it's not hurting anybody, so let

33:00

me do it again. And then it becomes so

33:02

systematic and you're not even thinking

33:05

that you're committing a crime. Um

33:08

And I think a lot of people talk themselves into thinking,

33:10

hey, I'm kind of owed this for something. They

33:12

justify it with something else in their life. Right, it's

33:15

the rationalization that you can go down and

33:18

you get away with a little bit. You can get away with a little

33:20

bit. And the thing that we always

33:22

see is that, unfortunately, and everyone's

33:24

experienced this, greed gets the better

33:26

of you if you let it. And on

33:28

the other side of that is that level

33:31

narcissism of I'm owed this. This is I'm

33:34

like, I'm not hurting anybody. The U.

33:36

S. Government is the largest entity on

33:38

the planet basically, so what

33:40

if I'm taking a few extra million dollars

33:43

from them? How's that going to affect a

33:45

budget that's trillions of dollars?

33:47

And it is we just we've

33:50

we've with mcmillions. It was funny because

33:52

and all in all, they stalled about four

33:55

million dollars. This is five and

33:57

fifty million dollars, and

34:00

but the motivations are very much the same.

34:03

Yeah. Well, and I think that there's there's

34:05

probably commonalities too with childhood

34:08

or some sort of trauma or some experience

34:11

that really affected kind of how like

34:13

in the case of Eric's ekhan in

34:16

a story like we we actually we

34:18

talked about Eric's mom and

34:20

what he was like his relationship

34:23

with his mom, and we feel like in a lot of ways, like

34:25

that did affect his

34:28

desire to get out there,

34:30

his desire to be recognized,

34:32

his desire to do something that

34:35

was meaningful, and you

34:37

know, I had to have some success in a small

34:40

town. Like he was a he wasn't

34:42

he was a geniue. I mean he self proclaimed

34:45

genius by the way. He uh yeah,

34:49

yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm

34:52

now a fraud con person.

34:55

Yeah, So, you know, there's there's

34:57

a lot of commonalities, but there's

35:00

also there's got to be something that

35:02

you can trace back to early

35:04

in life with all these people

35:07

that's like, hey, I you know, this

35:09

is the reason why I decided to

35:11

pick up that wallet and claim the ten

35:14

thousands of my stuff rather than try to do

35:16

the right thing that makes sense.

35:18

I mean, I'm I'm more totally

35:20

interested in knowing more about the Halloween themed brothel

35:23

and wondering if if people were

35:25

having sex and zombie which

35:28

and sexy Donald Trump costumes.

35:32

Uh, that whole thing. That

35:35

is one of the most shocking things we've found out

35:37

about. When we're talking to people

35:39

about Eric, it came up

35:41

that, oh, yeah, Eric had

35:44

a brothel. Because part of what you learned

35:46

in the series is that one

35:48

week out of every single month, Eric

35:51

would fly somewhere around the world to try

35:53

and basically find a new wife, women

35:56

a biza. Sorry what so

36:00

he's getting a you know, the the conjugal visits

36:02

you might have to go to talk but if

36:05

only you do how many times I talked about conjugal visits?

36:07

Okay, go on. So we

36:10

we find that he's traveling around the world doing other stuff,

36:12

and then it comes up that like, oh, at one point Eric

36:15

bought a brothel and owned and random

36:17

brothel, and we're just mind

36:20

blown about this whole thing. I mean, our

36:22

entire team we worked with here at fund Meter was

36:25

like, is this is this real?

36:27

Then we start researching it and sure

36:29

enough. Yeah. I even talking to Eric. He talks

36:32

about it in the series of you know,

36:34

was it a brothel? Was it a go

36:36

go? And he one

36:38

of my personal favorite quotes of

36:40

it. You know, it was like, you know, you

36:43

go there and if you like it, you take it home. That's

36:46

that's sort of how he looked his

36:48

go go slash brothel. But um,

36:51

it is it is a wild scenario. And

36:53

uh, I really wish it still existed

36:55

because I'd love to go to Thailand and uh has

36:58

a pat Hi there? I haven't.

37:01

I haven't heard anything. After Leah suggested

37:03

that there was such a thing as a sexy Donald Trump costume,

37:07

I was like, I was like, is it Is it a

37:09

good thing that we don't have any photos? Or

37:14

I want to see that. I could

37:16

see it now, someone just with a spray tanned

37:19

orange face, with white eyes, a wig

37:21

and just nothing else. All

37:25

right, moving on, So everyone's

37:29

gonna have nightmares tonight thanks to me? Or

37:31

is there anything else about the show? Any last

37:34

thoughts that you want to tell us or the listeners

37:36

about, or any parting words

37:39

that you want to share. I mean,

37:41

I think one of the things that you said before

37:43

about like you know, you

37:45

know, standing up for what's

37:48

right, and like there's a there's an inspirational

37:50

side to this story as well,

37:53

And there's also a cautionary

37:55

tale of what happens

37:57

when you can are a problem. Um,

38:00

because with our two

38:02

whistleblowers, they were saying,

38:04

hey, there's a problem here, and they

38:07

were being ignored, and they

38:09

were being were time and time again. What happens

38:11

with a problem when you ignore it. It doesn't

38:13

just go away like a lot of people wanted to.

38:16

Uh, it just becomes a bigger problem

38:19

and a bigger problem. And this is really a

38:22

horrific illustration of how big

38:24

that problem can get and how can affect

38:27

so many people. And I

38:29

had just one person early on just said

38:32

you know what, right, there's

38:34

a problem here and I can help stop

38:36

it. But so many people avoided

38:38

it, and then people went out of their way to actually

38:41

stop them from making that problem

38:43

known to other people. And it

38:46

so I think that there's a great cautionary tale

38:49

in this story. So it's got everything. It's got

38:51

humor, it's got tragedy, it's

38:53

got inspiration, it's got

38:56

sell them sell

38:59

it's got from Halloween

39:01

being yeah, yeah,

39:05

the underlying sexy Donald Trump's is

39:09

we just like as outrageous

39:11

as Eric is, and he's crazy

39:14

and saying and fun and just watching

39:16

his commercials will make you laugh. But at the same

39:18

time, there are people that are still fighting

39:20

to try and get their benefits back. This is still

39:23

a problem right now, and

39:25

you know, the people that are fighting

39:27

for their benefits have really had a hard time.

39:30

So we're really we hope above anything

39:32

that this shines a light on this entire topic

39:35

so that the people who need help can

39:37

get it, and that some changes at

39:39

the very top, governments, whole level

39:41

start to happen so things like this

39:43

don't happen again. Amazing.

39:46

I'm looking forward to it. And on a personal

39:48

note, I want to thank you guys for mcmillions because

39:51

I was in the nineties. I was on a mission to win

39:53

that thing. I had a lot of food I didn't want to eat because somehow

39:56

I thought I was like Charlie and the chocolate factory. I

39:58

saw one of those little things on the ground and then I

40:00

went and I was like, that's it, and I picked it up and I never won.

40:02

So the fact that you exposed that there was a problem and it

40:04

wasn't just me um,

40:07

sadly, I appreciate all that. I remember

40:09

it also as a little kid, very

40:13

very young, because I'm eighteen basically, so

40:17

I don't like that you guys laughed, but

40:19

uh, well is

40:22

what's the legal drinking age and a visa,

40:25

isn't it? So yeah, yeah,

40:27

yeah I don't drink, but

40:30

yeah I'm barely legal. But I know I

40:32

remember it as a kid too. And also

40:34

mcmillian's helped me get through the pandemic. So

40:37

much appreciated to you. We're like, oh, good

40:40

content, thank you, thank

40:42

you. That's that's awesome to hear. You know. We

40:44

we worked insanely hard on

40:46

that entire thing, and uh, the

40:50

big con got us through the pandemic because that's

40:52

basically all we've been been doing since

40:55

the world shut down. So that was an interesting challenge,

40:57

but we we got it done

41:00

well. James and Brian, thank you so much for coming

41:02

on the podcast today, and anyone

41:05

who's listening. If you have Apple tv plus,

41:07

congratulations you've made a great choice. If not,

41:09

download it now so that

41:11

you can also watch the

41:13

show. It's coming out May six, so

41:16

tomorrow, and you can also

41:18

listen to the Companion Show on Apple Podcasts.

41:21

Yes, the Big on on Apple TV plus Basics.

41:24

Then there's a companion podcast. What else do we have

41:26

fun new year? We

41:28

got a new line of kidding. Yeah.

41:34

Well, if you guys wanted to buy my new fragrance, it's

41:36

Curious by Britney Spears and it's

41:38

out now, so check yourselves at CBS.

41:41

Gentlemen, it's been an honor and a

41:43

pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today,

41:45

and we can't wait to watch the show and listen to the

41:47

podcast. Oh, thank

41:49

you so much for having us. Thanks guys, Well, of

41:52

course, have a good one, all right,

41:54

you too, bye bye ye,

42:08

all right you guys. In today, our hot topics

42:11

are going to be Dave Chappelle getting

42:13

attacked on stage at the Netflix as a Joke

42:15

festival, and a complaint

42:18

against Bill Murray over a difference

42:20

of opinion on set shutting down a film. So

42:22

we're going in real Hollywood today. Let's

42:25

talk about Bill Murray first, because I can't even believe

42:27

anyone would complain about Bill Murray.

42:30

This just seems ridiculous to me. However,

42:33

I don't know if you know this, but there was actually

42:35

previously a complaint against Bill Murray

42:37

during uh the filming of Charlie's

42:40

Angels in two thousand, when Lucy Lou said

42:42

that she had some issues with him and

42:44

that he was hurling insults at her while doing

42:46

a scene and some of the language was and

42:48

I quote, inexcusable and unacceptable.

42:52

So interesting to hear that, But

42:55

now moving forward. Apparently

42:58

for roughly two weeks after search Like Pictures

43:00

suspended production on the film Being Mortal

43:02

to investigate a complaint filed

43:04

against Bill Murray, the actor described the inciting

43:07

incident as a difference of opinion. During

43:10

a recent sit down with c NBC, Murray

43:12

said, I had a difference of opinion with a woman I'm working

43:14

with. I did something I thought was funny and it

43:16

wasn't taken that way. The company,

43:19

the movie studio, wanted to do the right things, so they wanted

43:21

to check it all out and investigate it, and so they stopped

43:23

the production. Murray said

43:25

that the woman who filed the complaint are they're

43:28

both trying to make peaks with each other. He

43:30

says, We're both professionals, we like each other's

43:32

work, we like each other. I think if

43:34

we can't really get along and trust each other, there's no point

43:36

in going there's no point in going further

43:39

working together or making the movie as well. Oh

43:42

yeah, yeah, I like Bill Murray

43:44

a lot. I'm a big fan.

43:47

Yeah yeah, I'm not. I'm not justifying

43:50

anything that I don't know. I don't know

43:52

what was said, the stuff I don't know, the Charlie's

43:55

Angels things. If something was

43:57

done wrong, then I'm

43:59

not then I don't advocate that, but I

44:01

really I'm a big fan of his I kind

44:04

of don't. This doesn't feel like a major

44:07

thing. This sounds like maybe somebody was offended

44:09

or maybe there was something, and it sounds like they're working it

44:11

out there. And I'm almost content.

44:14

And I'm not saying I don't want to talk about it, but I'm almost content

44:16

leaving it at that, because I feel like a lot

44:18

of people get involved in stuff that doesn't

44:20

need it and it becomes a bigger thing. I'm not ready

44:22

to take Bill Murray down without the facts, and

44:25

I don't want to take Bill Murray down, and I don't want other people

44:27

take him down if he did something wrong. I hope that they

44:29

can work that out. Do people

44:31

ever know what was said? I

44:33

don't know. It sounds like they're kind of keeping it pretty close

44:35

to the vest. Now. I think I'd

44:38

be foolish to say no, because I think everything

44:40

eventually comes out. Um,

44:42

it seems crazy that with all the information

44:44

and the Amber heard and Johnny Depp trial, we

44:47

know everything that happened between them, including

44:49

shifting the bed. How could we not know

44:51

what was said on set? And you know, I think the social

44:54

opinion always impacts

44:56

the actual decision as well, and

44:58

and you know, it can affect people's careers.

45:01

So we found out that something happened

45:03

that people didn't think was that big of a deal.

45:05

Maybe it would make this woman look really bad and

45:08

then and it would make the studios look ridiculous

45:11

and everyone look ridiculous. But if they

45:13

if what he said was really bad and they're trying to

45:15

protect Bill, you know, there's just

45:17

so many ways that's can all play out. Yeah,

45:20

And I think that's that's kind of where I'm

45:22

at. I think we don't always need to

45:24

be a giant court

45:26

of opinion. I think it's good to weigh in

45:28

on stuff. It's good to know stuff. But you know,

45:31

things happened, you know, I know there was this thing recently

45:33

with Steve Martin when people went back and like the King Tut

45:36

thing, and it's like, guys, that was thirty years

45:38

ago. It was a different context. You can't go back

45:40

and dig that up. Granted this just happened now,

45:42

but I don't know that there has to be this.

45:45

To me, without knowing, it

45:47

doesn't sound like it's there's a major thing. There's no police,

45:49

there's no you know. So it's like, whatever it

45:51

was, it sounds like it can be. It

45:54

can be cleaned up without it without

45:56

it going through you know, the general

45:58

court of opinion. Man,

46:01

I wish I knew what was said. I really

46:04

do. I'm so nosy. But also because

46:07

yeah, ay, and be also because

46:09

you know, I think that as a comedian

46:12

sometimes you just not that

46:14

you don't know the line, but

46:17

it's just you have no filter and you kind

46:19

of assume around other artists you can just be

46:21

free and be yourself. And sometimes

46:24

it's never meant to make someone feel

46:26

uncomfortable or make someone feel bad. Maybe

46:28

you're just you know, saying something ridiculous

46:31

or yeah, we have no idea what the context was. We don't

46:33

know if he was talking about someone on set. We don't know

46:35

if he was talking about something completely random and

46:37

she just found it inappropriate, and

46:39

so, you know, it's it's always interesting

46:41

to see how people get slammed for something

46:43

that maybe nothing or or nothing

46:46

that might be something. There's a lot of pressure when

46:48

you're brought in to do something as a comedian,

46:50

and as a comedian and actor, you

46:52

know, there's a lot of pressure. You're you're almost seen

46:55

as you know, you've got to kind of entertain people on the set.

46:57

You got and I'm not saying that means cross lines, but

46:59

sometimes you feel like, okay, well I gotta do this. So it

47:01

is possible that you would say some stuff that normally

47:04

you wouldn't say, or maybe it was a long day

47:06

and you did. I'm not making excuses

47:08

for him, but I'm saying that this is a thing there is pressure

47:10

to entertain, so it's very possible.

47:12

Like you said, you start, you know, kind of joking

47:14

around with people on the line, gets a little blurred and all

47:16

of a sudden you've gone over it, which it's a lot

47:19

easier to do nowadays. Do you think it's going to harm

47:21

his career this incident. I

47:24

don't think so. I hope not, and I think

47:26

it's gonna be a little bit of a gray area if we don't

47:28

find out what happened, because then people will be like, well,

47:31

I don't know what I'm dipping my toe in here, so

47:34

right, I mean, Dave Chappelle

47:37

survived cancel culture, Joe

47:39

Rogan survived cancel culture. I

47:41

think that there are some people who are so much larger

47:44

than the entertainment industry that can't be canceled.

47:46

Yeah, and I'd like to Fahil Murray seems like one of those

47:48

people. And

47:50

Bill Murray is not someone that has been you

47:53

know, um an ass and has has done

47:55

things. He's known for being, you

47:57

know, a good guy and in a

48:00

lot of different situations. Although

48:02

I've got questions for Lucy Lou. Yeah.

48:05

Right. Anyway,

48:07

speaking of drama

48:10

in the workplace and Hollywood,

48:13

if you haven't heard about this yet, just

48:15

the other night in Hollywood

48:17

at the Hollywood Bowl, Dave Chappelle was tackled

48:20

by someone in the front row who

48:22

had a gun and a knife. How they

48:24

got the gun in the knife into the Hollywood Bowl when

48:26

they were metal detectors and everyone's phones were

48:28

being locked up is beyond me. Apparently they

48:31

were so consumed with locking up people's

48:33

phones that they missed a gun,

48:35

Like, how does that not go through the metal detector. It's

48:37

all very odd. And apparently this guy snuck

48:40

into the front row. He didn't have a front row seat

48:42

or anything, and he went on

48:44

stage tackled Dave Chappelle and this is

48:46

all for Netflix as a joke, and

48:49

he came up, he stood up, Chris

48:51

Rock came grabbed the mic. Set is that you Will Smith,

48:54

L O L. And Jamie

48:56

Fox, Jon Stewart,

48:58

all the other comedians just started running and chasing

49:01

and beating the ship out of this guy along with security.

49:03

He left mangled, his arm was broken,

49:06

twisted in a million pieces. But

49:08

I mean, man, this is um

49:11

this is pretty despicable. Also, you

49:13

know, I wonder what the motive was. We haven't even gotten

49:16

there. With Will Smith and Chris Rock, we know what

49:18

the motive was, We know what was going on, but

49:20

with this guy, we have no clue. Right

49:24

And also, you know, there were no consequences

49:27

for Will Smith physically, you

49:30

know, he professionally he's

49:32

been you know, banned for ten years and blah blah

49:34

blah. But for this guy, he was immediately tackled,

49:36

beat up. It's

49:39

just interesting to see how there's

49:41

a difference and how people are treated Because a reputation

49:44

walked on stage and smacked Chris

49:46

Rock. Uh, somebody

49:49

that was unknown jumped up and

49:51

and and tackled Dave Chappelle,

49:53

So that that's the difference. The difference is people

49:55

like, oh, I know this guy is once he's walking up, what

49:57

he do? Oh I can't believe he did that. That's not like him.

50:00

This is who knows what this guy is doing? So

50:02

they grabbed him and beat him

50:05

up, and you know, neither is correct. Both

50:07

are scary. Um. I

50:10

tend to think that the obviously that Dave

50:12

Chappelle one is is a is more scary

50:14

to think about. Because I

50:17

got past security, got on stage tackle

50:20

him. It could have been gun

50:23

had a gun, I mean, I still just don't.

50:25

Also, that is so bizarre that the guy

50:27

brought a gun but decided to get on stage and tackle him

50:29

instead of using the gun. I mean, I just

50:31

read somewhere that it was a replica gun, but then he had a real

50:33

knife attached to it like that

50:36

right there says there's a whole bunch of craziness

50:39

going through that head. But um, to

50:41

do any of that but um, yeah, it could have been a

50:43

thousand times worse than it was. It could

50:45

have been a thousand times worse. The fact that Dave just

50:47

brushed it off and everyone started making jokes immediately

50:50

goes to show you how jaded comedians

50:53

are already by violence or

50:55

like expecting something bad to happen that shouldn't

50:57

be the norm. I know, and I'm torn because

51:00

I really appreciate the professionalism of being

51:02

able to bounce both of them, Chris Rock to being

51:04

able to bounce back and and do

51:06

what you're what you do make people

51:08

feel a little more comfortable to make some jokes about

51:10

it. But it's also like I don't want

51:13

that. I don't want the ability to do that to

51:16

diminish the reaction to these types of things,

51:18

right, And and I know as a comedian I

51:21

deflect with comedy a lot. In fact, last

51:23

night, I was having a very intense

51:26

emotional conversation with someone. I just made a joke

51:28

and I just thought, in that moment, why did I

51:31

have to do that? You know, it's because I was so uncomfortable

51:33

that I had to bring laughter into it and make it less

51:35

serious and to take

51:37

away any element of pain

51:39

or anything for me or the other person. And

51:42

a lot of times I'm just you know, I do that,

51:44

and I think that a lot of comedians do that because it's our fence

51:47

mechanism and it makes everything okay.

51:50

Not everything needs to be made okay. Like that's a pretty

51:52

scary thing to happen. But

51:55

anyway, I mean, look,

51:58

the podcast wentlong today. It's

52:00

short, but it went long. Does that make

52:02

sense? And

52:05

now Dmitri has to go be a celebrity

52:08

And I'm sorry, Dmitri. Did you get invited

52:10

to Tom Cruise's new movie premiere? I

52:13

did. I'm I'm off to the top gun Maverick premiere.

52:16

And will you take photos on the red carpet with

52:18

your arm extended out pretending

52:20

to hold an invisible person so that I can photoshop

52:23

myself into the photos. It's just the way you painted

52:25

that, right. There is probably a no I'll

52:27

go out and pretend to hold an invisible person. I'm

52:29

probably gonna say no, but I'll see what I can do. We

52:32

don't want to seem crazy on the red carpet in front of all your

52:34

peers and Tom Cruise, that's so weird. There's enough

52:36

crazy out there. I think I'm gonna stand

52:38

and stand down on this. Ha ha. Okay,

52:41

Well, you have a fabulous time on the

52:43

red carpet. I mean at the movie premiere tonight.

52:45

I'm wondering who you're wearing. I

52:47

would love to see photos at the gown, you know, I'm just so

52:49

curious. Well, if you'll have me back, I'd love

52:52

to come back and talk about it. If

52:55

you guys also see

52:58

a crime in the future, one

53:00

that is Dimitri's hair and makeup

53:02

that I'm sure we'll follow after this, it's gonna be

53:04

beautiful. It's gonna be a beautiful wig. If

53:07

you see a crime, like, for example,

53:09

if you were at Netflix

53:12

is a joke last night, two nights ago, when

53:14

this airs, or whenever you're listening to it. If you were

53:16

in there and you saw what happened, you're

53:18

supposed to call us. You know that, right. We

53:21

have a call in number for this exact

53:23

reason, and you know what it is. It's eight

53:25

six six crime. If you witness

53:27

a crime that's not too scary,

53:30

you like, don't don't call us for the scary ones, you

53:32

know what I mean. Like, that's when you call the cops, So we're not the cops.

53:34

We can't do anything for you. We're social slits. You

53:36

know this crime and you want

53:38

to call and confess. We can help you with that too. Yeah,

53:41

sure, like we'll pardon your sins.

53:43

We will call in eight six six

53:45

twenty one crime. That's eight six six two

53:47

one two seven four or six three eight

53:50

six six twenty one crime six

53:53

to anyone crime that's eight six six

53:55

two one two seven four six

53:57

three. All right, y'all, it's

54:00

day safe. Have a great night that.

54:02

Don't commit any crimes until

54:04

the next podcast. Okay,

54:07

love you all. Bye. It's

54:09

real time. Crop it

54:12

real time Gray,

54:15

I mean, is it actually real time crime or solving

54:17

anything or is that just the thing we say, it's a thing

54:20

we say, got it? Okay, see you next

54:22

week for more real time crime, only

54:24

on i Heart Radio.