0:00

As

0:00

you remember in episode four sixty three

0:02

of my podcast, I interviewed a New York

0:04

Post reporter that wrote the expose on

0:06

Hillsong. And now you can hear

0:08

even more information about Hillsong because there's

0:11

a new podcast called Hillsong Omega

0:13

Church shattered. It's new from Discovery

0:15

Plus and TLC, and as follow-up to the

0:17

Discovery Plus series that was released earlier

0:20

this year. On the podcast filminger

0:22

Don Johnstone and former hillsong volunteer,

0:24

Dalalie Rouge, go on an emotional

0:27

investigative journey to speak with more victims

0:29

that have come forward in the aftermath of the abuse.

0:31

So they're gonna expose damning new evidence

0:33

against the church that's come to light since the documentary

0:36

came out. You're gonna hear from former and current

0:38

hillsong members, victims of hillsong

0:40

abuse, whistleblowers, journalists,

0:42

and experts along with never before

0:44

heard stories. So this is

0:47

a podcast for you. I know I'm gonna listen to it

0:49

as well. listen to Hillsong, a

0:51

mega church shattered wherever you

0:53

get your podcast.

0:55

Custom Inc. can help you recognize employees

0:58

show customer appreciation, and outfit

1:00

your teams with your favorite products and

1:02

brands customized with your logo.

1:05

At cuss ink dot com, you can easily

1:07

make your mark on all sorts of products,

1:09

including water bottles, backpacks, polos,

1:12

jackets, and so much more. Make

1:14

custom ink your go to custom

1:16

gear partner with great customer service,

1:19

quality products, and all in pricing.

1:21

along with personalized help when you need it

1:23

and an easy to use website, all

1:26

backed by a one hundred percent satisfaction

1:28

guarantee. Go to custom inc

1:30

dot com to get started today.

1:34

Amazing. k.

1:36

k.

1:36

Welcome back to another episode

1:39

of Reality Life with KKC. I hope that

1:41

you've had a fantastic week because I have

1:43

a great episode for you. Two segments.

1:45

The first is an interview with

1:47

Terry Dunmir, co creator of unsolved

1:50

mysteries on Netflix. This

1:52

iconic and gripping series returns

1:54

with a three week event featuring more

1:56

unexplained deaths, baffling disappearances,

1:59

and bizarre paranormal

1:59

activity. It first aired

2:02

in the late eighties and is over time come

2:04

and gone from TV. Netflix

2:06

rebooted the show and it's now about to

2:08

launch its third volume of episodes.

2:11

One of the cases that still haunts

2:14

me is from the volume one

2:16

of the Netflix series, which you can go

2:18

back and watch. And it's case

2:20

of a family annihilation story.

2:22

In France, count

2:27

is wanted for the murders of his wife, Agnes,

2:29

and their three children, Thomas, Anna, Benoit,

2:32

and his steps on Arthur. family

2:34

lived in an upper middle class neighborhood in

2:36

France, and their neighbor

2:38

Estelle did some work for the family and noticed

2:41

that at around two PM on Monday,

2:43

April eleventh, two thousand eleven

2:45

that the family's house was closed up.

2:47

And on the mailbox, there was a note that said

2:49

to stop leaving mail there. She

2:51

also noticed that the shutters on the windows

2:53

were closed, and she felt something was wrong

2:55

because the shutters were always open even

2:57

when they went on vacation. So

2:59

for the next two days, she noticed the same

3:01

thing and concerned she called the police.

3:04

On Wednesday, April thirteenth, the local police

3:06

arrived to check on the house. So they

3:08

noticed that the front door was locked and the

3:10

shutters were still closed. They had a

3:12

locksmith open the door and once inside,

3:15

They found that basically everything in

3:17

the house was in its place. There were some bedrooms

3:19

where the sheets had been removed, some

3:21

closets were also open, and the police

3:24

believed that the family had left voluntarily.

3:27

There was nothing out of the ordinary that led

3:29

them to launch a formal investigation. The

3:32

next day, several friends and relatives receive

3:34

letters from Xavier and

3:36

Agnes, and they stated, as

3:38

you know, I've had links with the US.

3:40

The Americans have recruited me to infiltrate

3:43

an international drug ring, and

3:45

this will be hard. You won't see for a long while

3:47

as we're going to change be under

3:50

and won't be reachable at all.

3:52

So

3:52

some loved ones were confused by the letters.

3:55

however, they knew that the couple was respectable

3:57

and did not believe that they would lie.

3:59

But Agnes' family continued

4:02

to put pressure on the police certain that the

4:04

family simply would not leave.

4:06

On April eighteenth, the police visited the house

4:08

for

4:08

a third time. On the nineteenth of fourth

4:11

time, by their fifth visit

4:13

on April twentieth, they still had not anything

4:15

unusual. However, on

4:18

their sixth visit on the twenty first, the

4:20

police lieutenant found something odd under

4:22

the terrace in the garden. Well,

4:24

it happened to be the entire family

4:26

with the exception of the father.

4:29

And their murders were considered to be methodical

4:31

executions. The victims were all

4:33

in their pajamas, so does believe that they

4:35

were killed while they slept in their beds.

4:38

During the last years before

4:41

the disappearance of Xavier and the murders

4:43

of his family, he

4:45

was known to have been in a downward spiral

4:47

of failure. They lost a great

4:49

amount of money. There were bailiffs on his back

4:51

along with other problems. Xavier

4:53

claimed to be a business owner creating

4:55

successful companies, traveling

4:57

across France and being a busy businessman.

5:00

But the truth was that his companies were never

5:02

really successful. And shortly

5:04

before the murders, he discovered that they

5:06

were almost out of money and would have to leave

5:08

their house and face serious consequences.

5:11

So as a result, he would be exposed

5:13

as someone unsuccessful. So

5:16

until Now,

5:17

he

5:18

has ever been found. There is video

5:20

footage of him, parking a car,

5:22

taking a gun, and looking like he's walking

5:25

into the forest but he looks back

5:27

at the camera and one has to wonder,

5:29

did he take his own life

5:31

or did he escape? Because no

5:33

one has ever found his body. So

5:35

they air this episode on unsolved mysteries.

5:38

And to this day, they're still getting

5:40

tons of tips about Xavier.

5:42

and there's been a cluster of

5:44

tips from Chicago in particular.

5:47

So I was excited to talk to her about

5:49

not just the history of the show,

5:52

but also about some of the most

5:54

interesting cases, including the

5:56

Xavier case. And over time,

5:58

they've been able to

5:59

the

5:59

figure out the answers to many unsolved

6:02

crimes. There have

6:04

been couples looking for children that

6:06

they place for adoption, it's just

6:08

a fascinating show. So the show's

6:10

back October eighteen, and there are a couple

6:13

episodes I want

6:13

you to look out for. So

6:15

the first episode, mystery

6:17

at mile marker forty five is,

6:19

by the way, directed by my friend, Sky Boardman.

6:22

So when talented eighteen year old volleyball

6:24

star Tiffany Valiante was

6:26

hit by a train on a remote, unlit

6:28

stretch of track in May's Landing, New Jersey,

6:31

authorities quickly ruled it as a

6:33

case of suicide. However,

6:35

Tiffany's family and a team of pro

6:37

bono experts believe she was murdered

6:39

and her body left on the tracks

6:41

destroyed any evidence.

6:43

So that is the first episode.

6:46

Also, what happened to Josh? In

6:48

two thousand two, twenty year old Joshua

6:51

Guimond vanished after attending

6:53

a party on the campus of St. John's

6:55

University in Minnesota and despite

6:57

massive searches, no trace of Josh

6:59

has ever been found. Law enforcement

7:01

has remained baffled by Ash's

7:03

mysterious disappearance until new evidence

7:06

was

7:06

recently discovered on his computer.

7:08

The ghost in apartment

7:10

fourteen After moving

7:12

into a new apartment in Chico, California,

7:14

terrifying and unexplained encounters with

7:16

the restless ghost, traumatized

7:19

single mother Jody Foster and her young

7:21

daughter. And they soon learned that

7:23

a young woman, Marie Elizabeth

7:25

Spanake, was allegedly

7:27

abducted and murdered and previously lived

7:30

in that apartment, apartment fourteen,

7:32

four decades earlier. and her

7:34

mysterious disappearance has yet to

7:36

be solved and abducted

7:38

by a

7:38

parent which is directed by Gerard

7:41

Jacoby.

7:42

two different single parents were blindsided

7:45

when their children were abducted by their

7:47

non custodial parent. They cannot

7:49

and will not stop searching for their children.

7:51

who could be anywhere in the world. So

7:54

the most exciting part of this show

7:56

is that there's still a chance that

7:58

some of these cases could

7:59

be solved. So just by share

8:02

of you watching, you might see

8:04

something or know something or know

8:06

someone and might be able to

8:08

be parked of unlocking the secrets

8:10

behind some of these stories. So I'm

8:12

so excited to talk to Terry, and

8:14

I'm really excited for all of you

8:16

to watch this new volume of episodes.

8:19

Also in this episode, Margaret

8:21

Ables, who's cohost of what

8:23

Fresh How laughing in the face of motherhood,

8:26

a great podcast. helps

8:28

me review the killer nanny on Discovery

8:30

Plus. This is the case of

8:32

Louise Woodward. She was a

8:34

British former au pair who was

8:36

convicted of the involuntary manslaughter of

8:38

eight month old Matthew Ethan.

8:41

This series revisits the

8:43

case twenty five years later, this was a very

8:45

famous shaken baby trial in

8:47

Massachusetts. It's

8:49

fascinating to revisit it the case

8:51

and see how much our lens has

8:53

changed

8:54

over the last

8:55

two decades. So I've got

8:57

Terry, I've got Margaret, It's a

8:59

fantastic episode. So

9:01

here we go. Be

9:03

rebellious. Be vibrant. Be

9:05

you with splat.

9:06

Choose from over thirty colors for endless

9:09

possibilities, whether it's an all over bold

9:11

look, money pieces, or ombre

9:13

color with temporary, semi permanent,

9:15

and permanent hair color.

9:16

Plat lets you create and color

9:18

on your terms. Find your

9:20

bold shade at Walmart, Target,

9:23

CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens, Whole

9:25

Foods Market, and splat hair color dot

9:27

com. splat is vegan, cruelty

9:29

free, and made in the USA.

9:32

If

9:32

you're into True Crime, the generation y

9:34

podcast is essential listening. We

9:36

started this podcast over ten years ago.

9:38

To dissect some of the craziest and most

9:40

notable murders, crimes, and

9:42

conspiracy theories together, and we'd love for you

9:44

to join us. Generation Y is one of

9:46

the longest running true crime podcasts out

9:48

there, and we are still at it. unravelling

9:51

a new case every week. We break

9:53

down infamous cases like the evil genius

9:55

bank robbery and lesser known

9:57

cases like the case of Kimberly Rico.

9:59

Did she actually kill her

9:59

husband? After they took part in a murder

10:02

mystery game? We

10:03

cover every angle. Breaking down theories,

10:05

diving deep into forensic evidence, and

10:08

interviewing those close to the case. And with

10:10

over four hundred and fifty episodes, there's

10:12

a little something for every true

10:14

crime listener. Follow the generation y

10:16

podcast on Amazon Music or wherever

10:18

you listen to podcasts. Or you can

10:20

listen ad free by joining

10:22

wondering plus in the wondering app.

10:25

Terry Dunn Yourr

10:28

is co creator and executive producer

10:30

of unsolved mysteries. One of my

10:32

favorite shows of all time, and

10:34

she's with me today. Welcome to the

10:36

show. Thank you so

10:38

much. Really happy to be here.

10:40

This show is unbelievable. I've

10:42

been watching since I was a little

10:44

girl Robert Stack Legend

10:47

probably haunted several of my

10:49

dreams This show is so good.

10:51

Tell me if this is true or not. Did you

10:53

originally pitch this as

10:55

three specials in nineteen eighty

10:57

five called missing have you

10:59

seen this person? That's right. It

11:01

started off as a series of three shows about

11:03

missing adults and missing children, and then

11:05

we kind of we kind of looked at that and thought that's

11:07

a small one small type of

11:09

mystery.

11:09

There's so many other types of mystery, so

11:12

we broadened it out to murders

11:14

and lost loves and

11:16

robberies and wanted cases so that it

11:18

was all different kinds

11:20

of mysteries.

11:21

And the

11:23

host of the show

11:25

really makes the show happen. There

11:27

was this ominous music incredible

11:30

narration. Tell me about

11:32

working with Robert Stack.

11:35

Robert was just amazing. We

11:37

miss him every day. No. He

11:39

was just such a fan of the show. He'd wanna

11:41

talk about each of the cases when

11:44

we were doing narration, and then remember we're

11:45

doing me on camera stand

11:48

he was just probably the the

11:50

show's the show's

11:50

biggest fan, and he's he's stuck with

11:53

it for eleven years.

11:55

And

11:55

then you had Dennis Farina after that,

11:58

another legend.

11:59

What was

11:59

unique about those two

12:02

gentlemen

12:02

as hosts? Dennis

12:03

Arena came from a law enforcement background.

12:06

So he probably gravitated

12:10

toward the crime stories a

12:11

little bit more. although he did a

12:13

great job with the the paranormal stories.

12:16

And the the Dennis Arena version

12:18

are really just repackaging

12:20

of the Robert

12:22

Stack

12:23

episodes. Those were not new episodes.

12:25

Those were just a repackage. We re

12:27

edited. We created new music. we

12:30

rewrote the narration a little bit, and we

12:32

and then we had Dennis

12:34

come in and do the the voice

12:36

over and the on cameras for

12:38

that.

12:38

So when you're coming up with

12:41

the concept for the show,

12:43

did did you always have the idea of

12:45

recreating some of the scenes?

12:47

We

12:47

did. We did. Uh-huh.

12:50

That was a way that

12:51

we could kind of, you know, visualize what was

12:53

being said in the interviews. I think that

12:55

surprised us the most, we weren't

12:57

sure that the audience was going to

12:59

like the idea of being

13:01

presented for unsolved cases, how

13:03

frustrating can that be in an hour?

13:06

Sometimes five cases, you know, was the

13:08

audience really going to, you

13:10

know, like that?

13:10

Or are they going to be frustrated because the

13:12

cases are unsolved?

13:13

But it turns out that I

13:15

think the that's one of the kind of the

13:18

the the

13:19

best things about unsolved is that the cases

13:21

are unsolved and people

13:23

talk about them and it's I think

13:25

there people are still talking about them. I think with

13:27

the Netflix series, it's it's the

13:29

same. The conversations around

13:32

volume one and volume two have just been

13:34

incredible and the engagement

13:36

around. Now back when we started

13:38

unsolved, with Robert stack, we didn't

13:40

have social media, we didn't even have Internet,

13:42

but now they're social media. So the viewers

13:44

can really engage in it, and that's much

13:46

more personal in in deep way than they

13:48

could with the original vintage series.

13:51

And I

13:51

also felt like in the

13:53

original series, I couldn't

13:55

believe how you were able to get actors that

13:57

looked so much like the

13:59

people that were involved in each case. Did

14:01

you ever have someone say, I

14:03

can't believe you nailed it that

14:05

much. We

14:07

actually had someone an actor

14:09

get arrested

14:10

believe it, character that he

14:12

portrayed, he got arrested

14:15

because he

14:17

looked so much like the guy. Right?

14:19

The bad guy? So so yeah. But we

14:21

we would go to small towns and we would work

14:23

with theater groups and high schools and colleges.

14:25

You know, they didn't necessarily what we

14:27

we

14:27

didn't shoot all the reenactments of those stories.

14:30

We shot them all in location. They weren't in LA or something

14:32

where you have a lot of big pool of actors.

14:34

So

14:34

sometimes it was a little harder than

14:36

other times to

14:37

find people that look like the actual

14:39

people in the episodes. And whenever

14:41

we could, we asked family

14:43

members or law enforcement to play themselves.

14:46

you know, because that's

14:48

certainly the most authentic

14:51

when it comes to trying

14:53

to match match the look of of

14:55

everyone.

14:56

And how often did someone

14:58

involved in those cases want

15:00

to reenact themselves? I'm assuming the

15:02

law enforcement was maybe more apt to

15:04

do it, but some of the family members, did it

15:06

feel too close to home to do that?

15:08

We we

15:08

didn't always ask family members depending on

15:10

the cases. Sometimes, sometimes, they

15:12

were were willing to. didn't ask

15:15

them to do a lot of dialogue. Now the

15:17

Netflix episodes don't have

15:19

dialogue. We don't have the kind of

15:20

dialogue that we did. We don't have the scenes that we

15:23

kind of did. the

15:23

reenactments are more evocative. In fact,

15:26

we make a point of not showing

15:28

people's faces, partly

15:29

because we feel like sometimes

15:32

seeing someone's face pulls you out

15:34

of

15:34

the episode a little bit because you're trying to

15:36

come, oh, does he really look like the person? Does the

15:38

actor really look like the person that they're portraying?

15:41

So pulled back on that

15:42

a little bit with the Netflix episodes

15:44

and we have a lot of

15:46

hands and

15:46

feet and back of heads and

15:49

shadowy shadowing figures

15:51

and silhouettes to

15:53

create also to create a little bit

15:55

more more mystery depending on the case and and

15:57

some some creepiness as well.

15:59

Then

15:59

no

15:59

the show itself has been

16:01

credited for bringing increased attention to

16:03

certain cases and thus allowing

16:05

them to be solved. What is

16:07

it like once an episode

16:10

airs? What is it

16:12

like receiving all of these tips? And have

16:14

there been some cases where you've

16:16

been astounded by the number of tips that

16:18

have come come in. Volume

16:20

one and volume two, we were

16:22

astounded. We didn't know what to expect series

16:24

hadn't been on the air for a long time. And

16:26

we just we really didn't know how many

16:29

how many loyal fans were still out there that

16:31

still really loved the show, and and there were so

16:33

many new people new viewers that came

16:35

to understand what unsolved

16:37

mysteries is and became fans as well. So

16:39

we were thrilled. We

16:41

didn't expect the number ships. We had we had

16:43

thousands of ships come in that we've been

16:45

able to pass on to to law

16:47

enforcement. I

16:48

mean, the case we

16:50

did about the the man and friends who killed his family.

16:52

No. No. No. That's my obsession. No.

16:54

We're no. We are I I

16:57

am so obsessed with this case.

16:59

there were cluster listings that

17:01

came in, sightings for this man.

17:03

And when you have cluster listings,

17:06

that gives you more

17:08

pause of concern. Like, maybe there's

17:10

something there. And you said

17:12

specific to Chicago, correct?

17:14

That's

17:15

right. That's right. Some of the initial leads came

17:17

into Chicago, but we just spoke

17:19

to the investigator in

17:20

France the other day, and he

17:23

said, think

17:23

they got about twenty leads from the United States

17:25

and then that cluster in Chicago and then

17:27

thirty leads from thirty three different

17:30

countries. and

17:30

they're still getting leads and they're still tracking them down.

17:33

And they've gotten a lot of leads in France as

17:35

well since the series aired,

17:37

but they're still tracking down. And

17:39

that's the case with all of the episodes

17:41

from volume one and volume

17:43

two. Everyone, their their investigators are

17:45

still getting leads and they're

17:48

still following those leads. You know, people can go back. Some

17:50

people maybe haven't even seen volume one

17:52

and volume two. Now they're looking at it

17:55

or maybe they're going back

17:57

and looking at it again.

17:59

So

17:59

that's

17:59

the beauty of streaming. It's when we were on

18:02

NBC back in the day, it would

18:04

air at eight o'clock on Wednesday. And

18:06

if the face of

18:06

the person went by, the face went

18:09

by. So now people can go back, and

18:11

they can pause, and they can look at that face, so they'll

18:13

throw that clue, and get just

18:14

just so much easier

18:17

to

18:17

engage with the Netflix episodes

18:20

than it was back in the

18:22

day. The

18:22

older episodes, what do you what would

18:24

you say is the most famous episode

18:27

or the one that you're asked most

18:29

about from

18:29

the older version? The

18:31

audience has their favorites. We've done

18:33

a list of the top favorites. There was a

18:35

story about I think it was it was

18:37

called ILA for abduction, and it was about

18:39

this woman who's on a paid phone talking to her

18:41

boyfriend, and this guy pulls up in a truck.

18:44

And and she's screaming into the phone, and her

18:46

boyfriend hops in the car, and

18:48

she's abducted in this truck, and she's

18:50

driving down the road, and the boyfriend's

18:52

trying to chase her, to catch her and

18:54

help her this transmission gives

18:56

out and she's never been

18:58

found. So that's one of the

19:00

creepier and scariest stories that

19:02

I know our audience talks about.

19:04

I know there are some really

19:06

big fans of the spontaneous combustion

19:09

episode, which yes. You

19:12

can't you can't, you know, you can't get away

19:14

from that. And then just, you

19:16

know, the cases, there's so

19:18

many cases that have been solved and that continue to

19:20

be solved from the vintage episodes, not

19:22

necessarily because of the lead that comes into

19:24

unsolved, but because of DNA. Now

19:27

DNA was just coming coming on

19:29

the scene. back when we started

19:31

unsolved and now it's, you know, so many

19:33

cases. Or if somebody comes forward and

19:35

confesses and deathbed confession, there's

19:37

just

19:37

all all kinds of different ways that the

19:39

cases can those cases continue to get

19:41

solved. One thing that's that concerns me

19:43

is that some of those cases are

19:45

are old now and the family members

19:47

are getting up there and, you know, so

19:49

many people and investigators as well, oh, I

19:51

just wanna solve this before I die. I just

19:53

wanna have closure before I die. And so

19:56

we're getting to that point with some of those

19:57

older cases where where

19:59

you just gotta get this solved. We just hope they get

20:02

solved. Howard Bauchner: When

20:03

so when the series was brought back to

20:05

Netflix and after the launches of seasons

20:07

one and two, unsolved

20:10

dot com, your website received

20:12

five thousand tips and more are submitted

20:14

every day. And the series also

20:16

prompted the FBI to reopen their investigation

20:19

into a Lonza Brook's death that was

20:21

from volume one, no ride home

20:23

after new evidence was revealed.

20:25

And with the launch of volume three, there are even more

20:27

opportunities to help solve a

20:29

mystery. What does that feel like

20:32

when you get a call that something that

20:34

you put together in an episode

20:36

led to pieces of

20:38

a puzzle being solved.

20:41

Usually, I burst

20:42

into tears. Yeah. I was imagining I

20:45

just whereas I'm so

20:47

emotionally and personally involved in these case that, I

20:49

mean, just you asking me that question makes me

20:51

teary. It's

20:54

just incredible to feel like

20:57

we help bring about something like something like

20:59

that. You know, we're this we're a week

21:01

away from lunch right now, and and I'm just

21:03

so excited on pins and needles that

21:05

maybe one of these cases will be saw.

21:07

The most sawable cases in volume three

21:09

are is Kenny Williams. The

21:11

the the fugitive the

21:13

the US marshals are looking for for the

21:15

murder of David harder and

21:18

also the missing kids in the

21:20

parental abduction cases. Those cases are

21:22

very, very solvable. So

21:24

we're, you know, we're very,

21:26

very excited, especially because we now know

21:28

that there is a fan base out there and that

21:30

a lot of people will be watching the episodes.

21:32

It just takes that one person

21:36

that has that tip that knows where Tammy is

21:38

or just just need that

21:40

one, but all it all it takes is one.

21:42

But we hope that those those

21:44

come

21:44

in? Howard Bauchner:

21:45

from From

21:48

volumes one and two, is

21:50

there anything true that you weren't able to

21:52

include in in episode, that in

21:54

retrospect you feel like, oh, that may

21:56

have actually led to some more

21:59

tips, for example,

21:59

in the Xavier case. Is there

22:02

anything that you weren't able to

22:04

include because of time that

22:06

may have been even more helpful to helping figure it

22:08

out? No. Of

22:09

course, through the editing process, there's a

22:12

lot that doesn't make it into the

22:14

episodes. because we shoot a lot of footage and a

22:16

lot of interview footage with everyone, but we make sure

22:18

that anything that is a clue or

22:20

a lead is in the episode. with

22:24

Xavier, that was a case

22:26

of is did he go walk into

22:28

the wilderness and and

22:30

kill himself? or did he just go on the run? We've

22:32

always felt like he went

22:32

on the run because he just had

22:35

an ego too big to kill

22:37

himself. You know? He went to went to too much trouble.

22:40

To to kill his

22:42

family and and set set up his

22:45

disappearance. So We still we still

22:47

believe he's out there. And

22:49

he's young enough. And he he

22:51

just as they say as

22:53

it the

22:53

detective says in the episode, he

22:56

looks like an awful lot of other

22:58

people.

22:58

I even looked and then, you know, the Chicago lead that

23:01

you mentioned, I looked I looked at that first movie

23:03

and that came in. That came in pretty quickly

23:05

after the series launched. And,

23:07

you know, I looked at this guy that

23:09

says somebody on this by late walking down,

23:11

like, Michigan sent a photo of him.

23:14

I went, Wow.

23:14

That does look like him. But

23:17

he,

23:17

you know, a lot of people look like

23:19

him. So it's just that, again, it's just finding that

23:22

one. there was a we the unsolved mysteries

23:24

podcast or it's just a case. We didn't it

23:25

wasn't solved because of unsolved

23:28

mysteries or a

23:28

tip that came into us, but it was

23:31

solved by a woman who saw this guy who

23:33

was a wine fugitive. He had killed his

23:35

someone who was dating

23:38

in San Diego and fled fled

23:40

to Central America. They didn't know where he

23:42

was. They knew he was there, but they found him

23:44

teaching school in El Salvador just

23:47

about a month ago, and

23:49

somebody saw his and recognized him.

23:51

He he was all, you know,

23:53

lots of tattoos, and he was summertime

23:55

in El Salvador, and he's wearing long

23:57

sleeves. Right? That's a but

23:59

they they arrested him in front of his

24:02

students and marched him

24:03

back to the United States. And that so

24:06

that was one of those Yeah.

24:08

I had done the interviews with the with law

24:10

enforcement with the family, and I it's just

24:12

so gratifying that he got caught because he

24:14

was a he's a bad dude.

24:16

So

24:16

those moments are incredible.

24:19

We get so excited.

24:21

Actually, when we were shooting.

24:24

We we just finished locking picture

24:26

on the Xavier episode when we

24:28

were in production on that, and we got word

24:30

that he was arrested in Scotland.

24:33

And

24:33

we were like,

24:34

oh, no. What do

24:35

we do? But then it

24:38

turned out that it was a it was

24:40

somebody that somebody

24:42

that looked at him and it

24:44

was a false lead so he could move ahead

24:46

with the episode. What

24:47

of all these cases

24:49

And I don't even know if you could answer this,

24:51

but is there one that just still haunts

24:53

you more

24:54

than others? You know,

24:55

all the cases that are unsolved, I think,

24:58

haunt me.

24:59

I guess, the one

25:01

that I mentioned earlier are dial a for reduction.

25:03

You just that one's that

25:05

one's tough. But they're just there's

25:07

so many. There are so many. I don't even it's

25:10

just such a such a tough question.

25:12

If they're still unsolved, they haunt me.

25:15

I I think that's best

25:17

answer. Do you think

25:18

that people were scared

25:20

if they saw

25:21

Robert stock in the wild?

25:23

I'm

25:23

sure people would come up to him and say the same thing

25:25

they would say to us is I love your voice, and

25:27

I love that music, and I love

25:29

your trench coat, and I

25:31

love unsolved mysteries. I'm sure

25:34

But, you know,

25:35

he talked about that that, you know, how

25:37

people would come up to him because he became

25:39

very recognizable in his face and especially in

25:42

voice. people say, oh, I heard her as a voice and I would get so

25:44

creeped up. You know, young children

25:46

were sneaking, watching the

25:48

episodes. They said, a lot.

25:50

Yeah. My parents wouldn't let me watch it, but I I watched it anyway. I

25:53

wouldn't sneak it. Yeah. Stay home from

25:55

school and watch

25:57

it. We we get that

25:59

a lot. What

26:00

does it feel like as a filmmaker to know

26:02

that you've created something that is

26:05

so

26:05

iconic? I think

26:06

we're just so proud that it's

26:09

– that we've been able to solve some

26:11

of these cases. For

26:13

the Netflix series, we haven't done any lost

26:15

love cases. because a lot of those now get

26:17

solved through through Internet searches.

26:19

But back in the day, we we

26:20

united people with love

26:23

lost love they never would have been able to

26:24

see, I think, because we didn't have the Internet

26:26

then. The wanted criminals were

26:28

were brought to justice. I just think

26:30

that we're just very

26:33

very proud

26:34

that we've been able to play a

26:37

small part in that

26:39

and and create a really good

26:41

relationship with LongHorn law enforcement really

26:43

we work really well with law enforcement on

26:45

on these cases because they come to us sometimes

26:47

and they say, please do our case. You know, they

26:49

want us to help and In

26:51

the beginning, nobody knew who we were and who unsolved

26:54

mysteries was, but now I'm very

26:56

proud of our reputation too.

26:58

The show is, I think, we

27:00

we do everything we can to be really accurate

27:03

and balanced and

27:05

true to the to the people in

27:07

the cases. my

27:08

last question is, how hard is it

27:10

to find these cases that you

27:12

end up using in each

27:15

volume? how many are cases

27:17

are you sifting through and what

27:19

makes a case jump out at you that you

27:21

want to include it? We

27:22

have a database of thousands

27:24

of cases that have come into us over the years back

27:26

in the day we would get big, huge bags of

27:29

viewer mail because there wasn't an Internet for

27:31

submitting story So we had people just

27:33

going through letters and stories.

27:35

So we've we've I mean, you know, all these

27:37

years, we've we've created a database. This

27:40

The stories are it's very hard to choose what

27:42

stories to include because, normally, in,

27:44

you know, volume three, we had nine, nine stories

27:46

to to pick, and we need to do we

27:48

we always wanna we

27:50

want to do, you

27:51

know, there's an expectation that we're going to do

27:53

some paranormal stories because there are the paranormal

27:55

fans out there, and then we always do some

27:58

crime ministries as

27:59

well. So we try to have a good mix of stories

28:02

and good demographics,

28:04

different locations, different ages of

28:06

people, different ethnicities, that's

28:09

important. We look for

28:11

cases where the people are really relatable,

28:13

where you just look at them, you go, that could

28:15

be me. you know, that

28:17

that could be my child.

28:20

Because we feel like if people can relate to

28:22

the stories, then they'll they'll be more

28:24

engaged in the stories. you

28:26

know, just, I guess,

28:29

different different kinds of mysteries and

28:30

then also cases that are that we feel like we

28:32

can solve or -- Yeah. where where law

28:35

enforcement really believes that

28:38

that

28:38

doing the episode

28:41

would help. because sometimes law

28:43

enforcement, they're, you know, they're they're just thinking, you know,

28:45

there's just really either we already

28:47

know who did it or we think the

28:49

person who did it instead, if it's a

28:51

crime case. those are cases we wouldn't do. But if they really

28:53

think we can help, like, what happened to Josh

28:55

is a good example of that, that's a

28:57

twenty year old case, but law enforcement feels

28:59

like they have new information

29:01

now that the audience could help and the

29:03

audience could

29:03

really help solve it. So that was

29:06

we're very excited about that case

29:08

that's coming up in the second batch.

29:11

of episodes on the twenty fifth

29:13

because there's no information

29:15

there. I

29:17

love this show. I'm

29:19

so glad I got a chance to talk to you. I

29:21

can't wait for everybody to watch this because there's

29:23

so much to unpack. I'm very

29:25

confident that all of these

29:28

ARMchair forensic

29:30

experts are gonna have

29:31

their own opinions and I'm

29:34

very confident, at least, two of these

29:36

gonna be solved because of this

29:38

great great series that you've created. Tell

29:40

everybody where they can watch unsolved

29:42

mysteries new volume. saw

29:44

mister East, is is this

29:47

volume. Volume three is divided into

29:49

three different batches of

29:51

episodes. So on October

29:53

eighteenth, there will be three episodes. And on the

29:55

twenty fifth of October, there'll be three

29:57

more episodes, and then November first, three more

29:59

episodes. So they launch every

30:02

Tuesday for three weeks starting October

30:04

eighteenth on Netflix.

30:06

If you're into

30:07

True Crime, the generation y podcast

30:09

is essential listening. We started

30:11

this podcast over ten years ago to dissect some

30:13

of the craziest and most notable murders,

30:16

crimes, and conspiracy theories

30:18

together, and we'd love for you to

30:20

join us. Generation y is one of the

30:22

longest running True Crime Podcasts out

30:24

there, and we are still at it,

30:26

unraveling a new case every week. We break

30:28

down infamous cases like the evil genius bank

30:30

robbery and lesser known cases like the

30:32

case of Kimberly Rico, did she

30:34

actually kill her husband after they took

30:36

part in a murder mystery game?

30:38

We cover every angle, breaking down theories, diving

30:40

deep into forensic evidence, and

30:42

interviewing those close to the case. And with

30:44

over four hundred and fifty episodes,

30:47

There's a little something for every true crime listener.

30:49

Follow the generation y podcast

30:51

on Amazon Music or wherever you listen

30:54

to podcasts. or you can listen ad

30:56

free by joining wonder plus

30:58

in the wonder

30:59

app.

31:01

Margaret Avels is cohost

31:04

of what fresh hell, laughing in the face of

31:06

motherhood, a comedy podcast about the never

31:08

ending thresholds of parenting.

31:10

She's also a lover of unscripted TV,

31:12

loves a good doc deep

31:14

dive. I adore her. And

31:16

I asked her to watch the killer Nanny on

31:18

Discovery Plus. After twenty five years,

31:20

key players are reexamining the

31:23

Louise Woodward

31:23

murder trial. So here's the

31:25

background.

31:25

February fourth nineteen ninety seven,

31:28

Louise Woodward calls nine eleven in

31:29

Newton, Massachusetts. She reports a

31:32

baby who is barely breathing. The

31:34

infant was

31:34

eight month old Matthew Eaton. So

31:36

Matthew was comatose when he arrived at

31:38

Children's Hospital in Boston. His injuries

31:41

included a skolf fracture, a

31:43

suboral hematoma, which is bleeding in the

31:45

space between the skull and the brain, and

31:47

retinal hemorrhage, so bleeding at the back

31:49

of his eyes. He had massive brain

31:51

damage. Doctors concluded he was the victim

31:53

of shaken baby syndrome.

31:54

So Louise was

31:55

a nineteen year old from England working as an

31:57

au pair during a gap year

31:59

after or high school. She was caring for

32:01

Matthew and his two year old brother when

32:03

the baby became unresponsive. She

32:05

was quickly accused of violently shaking

32:07

Matthew and was on February

32:10

fifth. Matthew was taken off of life

32:12

support on February ninth. She

32:14

denied hurting the baby but was charged with

32:16

first degree murder. and the

32:18

trial is still controversial today because Woodward's

32:20

trial became a sensation in both the

32:22

US and the UK

32:25

where trials were not televised at the time

32:27

because the pro so the prosecution

32:29

stated that Matthew had three particularly

32:31

significant injuries. the

32:33

suboral hematoma, as I mentioned, the

32:35

bleeding at the back of his eyes and brain

32:37

swelling. And according to

32:39

medical testimony, this tryout of symptoms

32:41

was proof that Matthew had been violently

32:44

shaken. The prosecution also

32:46

said that Matthew's had been slammed on

32:47

a hard surface. Prosecutors

32:49

accused Louise of

32:51

preferring fun in Boston to childcare

32:53

duties. And Matthew's parents, doctors,

32:55

Deborah, and Sunil Eaton felt that

32:57

she had left a previous opioid job that had

32:59

an eleven PM curfew and often stayed out

33:01

too late. The defense contented that

33:04

aggravation of an older accidental

33:06

injury had caused Matthews death.

33:08

and the experts argued that Matthews'

33:10

skull fracture showed signs of

33:12

healing, so the injury had been sustained

33:14

likely weeks before. Experts

33:18

testimony also declared that blood clots from

33:20

Matthew's brain were three weeks old,

33:22

and the baby's wrists had been broken

33:24

two weeks

33:24

before on February fourth.

33:25

defense pointed out that Matthew had

33:27

no bruises to indicate he'd been harshly

33:30

shaken and said the lack of swelling at the

33:32

site of the skull fragments remendous head hadn't been

33:34

recently slammed on something hard.

33:36

On the stand, she stated that she was quickly

33:38

shaking the baby when he wouldn't wake

33:40

up, but denied being violent, and she

33:42

explain that earlier on February fourth,

33:45

she'd popped Matthew on the bed and laid him

33:47

on the bathroom floor, which countered

33:49

police claims that she said she had

33:51

dropped the

33:52

baby. Margaret, what do you think

33:54

of this case? I mean,

33:57

it's one of those cases where you hear

33:59

the prosecution

33:59

and you're like, we're locked. to her done. It's done. It's it's

34:02

a hundred percent. And then the defense comes

34:04

on and you're like, what are we doing here?

34:06

She's clearly done nothing wrong. And, like, even listening

34:08

to you explain it again,

34:11

Yeah. The the prosecution is, like,

34:14

clearly, the kid has a skull

34:16

fracture. He's been

34:17

shaken. And

34:18

then the the whole defense is ten doctors being like, no, that never happened.

34:20

It was so frustrating to me watching

34:22

it again. Like, how are we twenty

34:24

five years later? And we don't

34:27

have any more clue as to didn't it feel like there

34:30

was some missing info I wanted

34:32

somebody to come forward and

34:34

say, okay. okay

34:35

here's how this possibly could have

34:38

happened. It seemed to

34:40

me like III

34:40

left having no more idea what happened

34:43

than when I started it. First thing

34:45

I remember so clearly how the media was

34:48

so obsessed with this

34:49

case. obsessed, although

34:52

I would the one thing that shocked

34:54

me is I would have said this was, like, mid

34:55

eighties. I was surprised it was so recent because

34:57

it seemed

34:59

so like

35:01

Crazy psycho, which lady

35:04

did something wrong? Which seems like an eighty

35:05

is kind of a

35:08

story. Right? Right. And

35:08

then it also definitely had the error

35:11

at the time I remember of, like,

35:13

how dare a lady work?

35:16

and leave someone else with her baby pointed that out.

35:17

Right? And I thought,

35:18

like, this was happening in the

35:20

mid nineteen nineties. Yep. I am what

35:23

we call an art podcast in oldie

35:25

locks. I was in graduate

35:27

of college in nineteen, in

35:29

the mid nineteen nineties.

35:31

I I just I

35:32

was surprised that we were still talking about

35:34

the shock of women working in

35:37

nineteen ninety four.

35:39

for IT'S INTERESTING

35:40

TO YOU BECAUSE BOTH OF THE PARENTS ARE DOCTORS

35:42

AND ASKED TO YOUR POINT THE

35:45

MOTHER DEBRA EPN

35:48

WAS RIPPED apart in the media. You know, this would not have happened if she had just

35:50

been a stay at home mom. Her baby would have been

35:52

protected, which is abhorrent.

35:53

Deborah Eaton is

35:56

in a an extremely accomplished doctor. So how

35:58

demeaning on top of

35:59

her already losing a

36:02

child, that's disgusting. Then

36:04

you have

36:06

basically someone's character being

36:08

ripped apart, not just in Dr. E

36:11

Bin, but also Louise

36:14

Woodward. So she's nineteen. She's on a gap year. She

36:16

by all accounts seemed to love the opportunity

36:18

to work with these children. And

36:20

she was characterized as this

36:23

like crazy party girl. I think every

36:25

nineteen year

36:25

old would have been

36:27

doing the same thing. I mean,

36:29

the idea that people like

36:31

fun more than caring for children being

36:33

a shocking concept.

36:36

Right? Like, I have kids

36:38

let me tell you I would much rather watch

36:40

rent than hang out with them and give the

36:42

bats. Right. Like, this

36:44

idea of

36:45

and and and

36:48

I

36:48

mean, I live in a suburban town and I have met a lot of

36:50

o pairs. And this is another

36:52

interesting

36:52

distinction. She's really an o pair.

36:55

She's not a nanny. I think a nanny is,

36:57

like, it implies that you have some sort

36:59

of training. Mhmm. She's an eighteen year old

37:01

kid --

37:02

Mhmm. -- who is wants

37:04

to come to the US. And so her price tag

37:06

for doing that is taking care of kits. Right?

37:08

She's not like my whole life

37:11

is about giving bath to

37:13

youngsters. That's not what she's interested

37:15

in. But the fact that her

37:17

that implies that she's

37:19

somehow villainous -- Mhmm. -- like, Every

37:21

au pair, spoiler alert people.

37:24

Every au pair who wants to hang

37:26

out in a city and

37:28

have fun Yeah. And her price of admission is your kids. Right?

37:30

Like, that's not that's how it

37:32

works. And that is used as

37:34

this

37:34

sort of evidence against

37:36

her. Like, well, she seemed to, like, partying

37:38

more than she liked childcare.

37:40

That that's everyone,

37:42

by the way. Now another

37:44

thing about her personality was it had been said that

37:47

she didn't show much emotion afterwards.

37:49

One of the

37:49

doctors or one of the

37:51

lead investigators said she

37:53

never asked me how the baby was. Now she has

37:55

later said she was told by her

37:58

attorneys, be careful about

37:59

how you react, So

38:02

if

38:02

you're an impressionable nineteen year old

38:04

in another country unfamiliar with

38:06

the legal system, you

38:09

probably would do what someone told you to do and that

38:11

it was used against her. I

38:13

also

38:13

think it's it's more a sign

38:16

of her innocence that she

38:18

didn't ask. how the baby was because -- Mhmm. -- she if

38:20

she had shaken the baby and thought that she

38:22

had caused the injury, don't you think that

38:24

she would be, like, How's the, like,

38:26

is the baby okay? I did something wrong. Right? That

38:29

struck me as

38:30

the wrong direction. Like, I

38:32

would think that she would be more

38:34

concerned with how the baby was if

38:36

she thought she had caused the injury.

38:38

Okay.

38:38

So this is what I think.

38:40

And I think that the Bob Saggot case has really

38:43

educated so many of us

38:45

on how easily a brain injury

38:47

can happen if

38:49

there's a fall. Mhmm. I think

38:51

he was a

38:51

little boy who fell and maybe no one

38:53

was even witness to it. I think it

38:55

was enough of a fall

38:58

that it created that crack in the back of his skull, and that would explain

39:00

why there were no bruises on the body.

39:02

And I think that the morning

39:04

that she was with him was

39:06

when he

39:08

started to cry and couldn't really

39:10

stop, which apparently is

39:12

a symptom of, like, the brain

39:16

swelling too. So I

39:18

think she was in the wrong place at the

39:20

wrong time, and I think there was some

39:22

sort of fall that predated that.

39:24

And

39:24

i think and

39:25

I think, unfortunately, she was caught up in this and

39:27

had to go to jail for it. What do you

39:29

think? Yeah. I think that's

39:30

I mean, what I think watching it

39:32

again is that I have no idea what

39:35

happened. Is there a possibility that she's

39:38

overtired? She doesn't like her

39:40

job? She's frustrated? And

39:42

at some point, interaction with the

39:44

baby that's a little bit too rough.

39:46

Yes. But that wasn't proven. There's

39:48

no proof that that happened. I

39:50

could imagine a scenario in

39:53

which between the other kid and getting ready for the bath.

39:55

You kind

39:55

of put the kid down. They hit their

39:58

head. But in

39:59

they show pictures

40:02

of the baby. And it seems like

40:04

these unbelievably vast

40:06

injuries, but nobody explains like Is

40:09

that from a surgery that they did to, you

40:11

know, release the swelling or whatever? It just it

40:13

seems

40:13

like the prosecution again is

40:16

presenting these passive injuries

40:17

that don't seem consistent with

40:20

bumping your head.

40:20

And then the defense is like, no,

40:22

this could have been an old injury. I

40:25

just came out on no

40:26

idea what happened here, and therefore, total reasonable

40:29

doubt.

40:29

Okay. Interesting. Okay. So

40:31

October

40:31

thirtieth nineteen ninety seven,

40:33

the verdict arrives she was found

40:36

guilty of second degree murder and

40:38

cried out, I didn't do anything.

40:40

Why did they do that to me? The

40:42

conviction meant mandatory

40:44

life sentence which she received on October thirty one, she would have had to

40:46

have served fifteen years before parole

40:48

became a possibility. But on

40:50

November tenth of nineteen ninety seven, Judge

40:52

Hillary's Obel,

40:54

whose presided over the trial reduced her conviction to involuntary

40:56

manslaughter. His decision stated, I

40:58

am morally certain that allowing this defendant

41:00

on this evidence to remain convicted second

41:03

degree murder would be a miscarriage of

41:05

justice. The

41:07

prosecution wanted her to serve fifteen to

41:10

twenty years for manslaughter. Zolpi

41:12

sentenced her to two hundred seventy nine days the

41:14

length of time she'd already spent behind

41:16

bars and during her trial and

41:18

post conviction. Her

41:19

supporters outside the courthouse and back in

41:21

England celebrated the reduced conviction and

41:24

sentence. Deborah Eppen told Time

41:26

Magazine of time. Louise

41:28

took away Matthew and the judge took away

41:30

justice. She was freed from custody

41:32

on November tenth of nineteen ninety seven, but

41:34

the process accretion filed and appealed to reinstate her original

41:35

conviction or if that failed to have

41:38

her set her sentence to

41:39

be reduced. She had to

41:42

remain in Massachusetts while that was

41:44

pending. And on June sixteenth of nineteen ninety eight, the

41:46

Supreme Court of Massachusetts in his four

41:48

three decision upheld the manslaughter

41:50

verdict and the sentence of seventy nine

41:52

days. The ruling underline that

41:54

she hadn't been found

41:56

innocent. She stands guilty of causing an

41:58

infant's violent death The outcome of this

41:59

criminal trial most assuredly was not

42:02

an acquittal. Since the case,

42:04

medicine's view of shaken baby syndrome

42:06

now commonly designated as a form of

42:08

abusive hedge trauma has

42:10

evolved. In a twenty twenty

42:12

policy statement, the American Academy of

42:14

Pediatrics said it continues to embrace

42:16

the shaken baby

42:18

syndrome diagnosis as a valid subset of the AHT

42:20

diagnosis. Yet, the policy

42:22

statement also noted medical diseases that can

42:24

mimic the

42:26

findings commonly seen in

42:27

AHT are increasingly recognized. Some doctors believe

42:29

that bleeding

42:29

disorders, infections that cause a stroke,

42:32

genetic conditions, and

42:34

accidental falls can result in the

42:36

same triad of symptoms

42:38

associated with shaken baby syndrome.

42:40

So in other words, it could

42:42

have been a previous fall, but it could have also

42:44

been an a bleeding

42:46

disorder that had gone undetected. So

42:48

it's become more complicated to your

42:50

point as time has

42:52

gone on. I should also note that the Even family started foundation

42:54

for shaken baby syndrome. And if anything

42:56

I can say, I think that

42:58

that case woke people up

43:01

to how careful one must be with the

43:04

baby. Mhmm. I think

43:06

people for many, many years

43:07

after thought

43:10

about that. It's

43:10

interesting listening to that. And I was

43:13

very struck. This was the testimony that

43:15

struck me in the documentary. that

43:18

he had no bruising on his arms. I would think if you were

43:20

holding a baby in frustration and stinking

43:22

them -- Mhmm. -- that you

43:24

would have to leave marks on

43:27

his arms. And it also

43:30

it's one of these cases that your

43:32

heart goes out to the parents as

43:34

well that whatever happened here

43:36

then goes out to the parents as well that whatever

43:39

happened here,

43:40

they became convinced

43:42

that this person injured their child

43:46

And I I don't know when to lose a child is tragic

43:48

no matter what, but is it is

43:50

it worse for them to

43:52

believe that this person was response

43:55

for it versus a child who

43:57

just had a brain bleed or

43:59

some

43:59

genetic condition that caused its

44:02

death. I think the first is

44:04

much worse. that they had to go through

44:06

this whole ordeal of this trial, if actually what happened was the child

44:08

had a genetic condition. So

44:11

so In

44:12

addition to that, suboral hematomas and severe

44:14

retinal hemorrhages as Matthew had

44:16

are often tied with that AHT,

44:20

but can have other

44:22

causes. Medical experts have pointed out that

44:24

infants and young children can remain conscious

44:26

after suffering a brain injury making

44:29

it difficult to ascertain when in such an

44:29

injury occurred, like Bob Saggart, who

44:32

probably just

44:33

went to sleep after His

44:35

head cracked. So pediatric radiologist

44:38

Patrick Barnes, who was a

44:40

prosecution witness at the trial,

44:43

is now a critic of

44:45

the shaken baby syndrome diagnosis, and

44:47

he began questioning it while listening

44:49

to defense experts at

44:52

that trial. that to me was the last part of it I just

44:54

thought,

44:54

oh my gosh, how difficult

44:56

has this been for him to

44:59

reconcile that Yeah.

45:01

And God bless him for coming forward and

45:03

saying like, hey, I made a mistake on this. It

45:05

would have been a lot easier to keep his head down

45:07

and be like, you know, I guess who

45:10

can say, you know, and to come

45:12

forward and say, I should have

45:14

never testified that way,

45:16

you know. it's it's it's worthy of respect, I

45:18

think. Agreed. Tell everybody

45:20

a little bit about your podcast. I've been a guest

45:22

on it. I

45:22

think that you and I have

45:26

very similar sense of rumors and way of looking at parenting.

45:28

And I know

45:29

they're gonna love your show for that.

45:30

So tell everybody a little bit more about your

45:34

show. My

45:34

podcast is called What Fresh Hill laughing in the face

45:36

of motherhood. My partner, Amy

45:38

Wilson, and I take a

45:42

parenting dilemma once

45:43

a week and we solve it. That's our goal. So

45:45

we take, for example, should

45:47

children have homework? and

45:50

we take the two sides of it. We debate it. Amy is a

45:52

researcher and kind of a brainiac. I'm

45:55

kind of like, We'll figure

45:57

it out. I fly by the seat of my pants,

45:59

you

45:59

know. I'm sort of and I give a very as

46:02

Amy says, a gimlet eye.

46:04

to a lot of the parenting, you know, books

46:06

and the advice that you get of, well, they're

46:09

eat when they're hungry and I

46:12

have sort of, you know, the point of view of, actually, I've raised a couple

46:14

of these kids and let me tell you they may

46:16

not eat just because they're hungry. They may

46:18

hold out on

46:19

you for a week. And

46:21

so every week, we take a topic, we break it down,

46:23

and we come up with solution. We like

46:25

to say, we solve parenting dilemmas so

46:27

you don't have to.

46:30

And have you found that sometimes she

46:32

brings

46:32

a point that makes you

46:34

rethink

46:35

the way that your parent

46:37

and vice versa? For sure. And

46:39

when we started it as kind of you do with the podcast, like, oh, this will be

46:41

our formula, and it has

46:44

actually totally changed the way I parent because

46:46

I would have

46:48

said, like, oh, you can't figure it out. You just have to go with the flow. You

46:50

take the days as they come. And

46:52

she has brought

46:54

some research

46:54

I

46:56

have a kid on the spectrum who struggles,

46:58

and she's brought in just some really fascinating research about.

47:01

They call it, like, post

47:04

activity restraint collapse, like how

47:05

kids have to hold themselves together during activities

47:07

like school, and how that's why when they

47:09

come home, they kind of fall

47:11

apart. And so

47:14

some of the research and some of the parenting experts actually

47:16

have good advice. It turns out, and they

47:18

actually have stuff to teach you. And it's

47:20

helped me re relate to

47:22

my kid of, like, okay, I now know that at

47:24

three o'clock when he walks in the door, feed the

47:26

bear, like, throw food at him and give

47:28

him an hour of downtime because he's

47:30

in his post active restraint collapse And so I

47:33

have learned so much about parenting, which

47:35

I would have said,

47:38

like, you can't

47:38

really learn about parenting. You just kinda got a it's a thousand year

47:40

rule. If people have been doing it forever, that's

47:42

the right way to parent. And and

47:46

it's been great to have somebody who takes this

47:48

parenting thing

47:49

really seriously and bring in a

47:51

bunch of stuff. And and so, yeah,

47:53

I've learned to content from doing

47:55

the podcast. Great. So where

47:57

can people listen to your show and where

47:59

can they find you

47:59

on social media? We

48:01

are at what fresh help podcast dot

48:03

com that will link, you know, podcast type

48:05

in what Fresh Hill laughing in the face

48:07

of motherhood, you'll find us. And

48:10

we're on Facebook is our sort of go

48:12

to at what

48:14

Fresh Hill. at what fresh telecast, and we have an amazing

48:16

Facebook group. Couple thousand moms who are having

48:18

great conversations every

48:20

day about not only

48:22

how to raise kids, what their parenting dilemmas

48:24

are, but also what their favorite

48:26

reality TV show, what's

48:30

going on, two bachelorets. Was it a mistake? Yes, it was.

48:32

You know, this is the this is the

48:34

discussions that we're having. Perfect. Well, I

48:36

know everyone's gonna join. Thank you so

48:38

much for

48:40

coming on. so great

48:42

to talk to

48:45

you. Amazing cake. I

48:47

want to thank

48:48

my great guests, Terry and Margaret,

48:50

and remind you to click subscribe, leave

48:53

a five star review,

48:54

join the Facebook group reality life with

48:56

KKC, get tickets to my

48:58

live show at the City Winery in New York

49:00

City on November twentieth and the Hollywood improv

49:02

on December third in Los

49:06

Angeles, California You can follow me on Twitter at

49:08

kKC. You can follow me on Instagram

49:10

at kKCCA. TikTok,

49:14

it's kKC I'm on Cameo. My must watch list every

49:16

week on Monday is available

49:18

at katkc dot substock dot

49:20

com. I will tell you what

49:22

to watch each week in

49:24

unscripted television. And finally,

49:26

bonus episodes

49:27

are available at Patreon,

49:29

PATRE0N

49:32

dot

49:32

com backslash k KC. Bonus

49:34

episodes true crime, life

49:37

anecdotes, reality TV

49:40

show, read tabs behind the scenes of my bonus

49:42

content. So patreon dot combackslash

49:45

kick KCI can't

49:47

wait to circle back with you next week. I will

49:49

be interviewing the creator

49:52

of

49:54

dance moms.