0:01

Really now

0:04

really.

0:06

Really, no,

0:09

really hello, and welcome to really know Really

0:11

With Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden. This

0:14

episode is about how often we miscommunicate,

0:16

our tendency to interpret text messages

0:19

as negative, the issues of video

0:21

conferencing, the phenomena of phone

0:23

phobia, and the value of using

0:25

emojis, like if we texted you and

0:27

said please subscribe heart and prayer hands

0:29

emoji, maybe you'd do it. So please

0:32

subscribe heart and prayer hands. And now

0:34

here's Jason and Peter, Hello

0:37

everybody.

0:38

And even that could be misinterpreted. I say

0:40

hello everybody, and it could be misinterpreted.

0:43

That's that's oh

0:45

yeah, I mean why did he say hello and not

0:47

I? And why is it everybody doesn't include me? Are

0:50

really today? Is that recipients of

0:53

say, a two word email or a text

0:55

such as nice job or great work

0:58

is misinterpreted as being

1:00

sarcastic or snyn and.

1:02

Give the answer. Yet let him think, what do you think? The number is at

1:04

home six sixty

1:06

percent of the time, And it started with me and producer

1:09

Lauria. And she's not going to get mad if I say this, But Laurie

1:11

has an angry, resting place, and I've known Lauria and

1:13

a lover for twenty five years who worked

1:15

together. But I was getting text while you were

1:17

away doing Broadway, and it was like, we're doing

1:19

this, and I was realizing I'm taking

1:21

them negatively, right, So then we started joking

1:24

them negative. But

1:27

we started then writing each other like see

1:30

you tomorrow, said with

1:32

a bit of grace and acknowledging

1:35

your that. But then I said,

1:37

wait a minute, we need to do an episode in this, because

1:39

if they're misconstrued, this off six sixty

1:42

percent of time. And most people think when

1:44

they send a text that ninety percent

1:46

of the people receiving it receive

1:49

it the way they're sending it, and it's nowhere

1:51

close to that. So I saw that doctor Nick

1:53

Morgan, who's an expert in communication

1:55

public speaking, had talked about that specifically,

1:59

so I wanted to get him on to address that because I figured,

2:01

if if we're making errors like that, I

2:03

mean, I get a text going how is dinner? And I go,

2:05

oh, you're saying I didn't invite you. I people

2:08

go negative. By the way, because because we

2:10

were initially caveman, it

2:12

was a survival thing that our default

2:14

is negative. I'm gonna get eaten. I'm gonna my

2:17

parents kept on going.

2:18

That made what that analogy made no sense. I don't

2:20

want to.

2:22

No, we have a negative default, and he'll

2:24

talk about it.

2:25

I think negative default because we were cavemen.

2:28

Because of response of fighting.

2:30

If you said to a caveman, nice job, he went,

2:32

oh, we.

2:33

Go, yeah job.

2:36

And by the way, today one in five office workers

2:38

say they have been reprimanded, demoted, or even fired

2:40

over misinterpreted messages. And texting

2:43

is the way we're going. It's it's becoming

2:45

more prevalent than email because it's convenient.

2:48

So let's say how to do yes.

2:49

But this man is an expert in

2:51

in body language and RHETORICI you

2:54

you coach public speaking, you are

2:56

a renowned teacher and author. You're

2:59

I think we are very is fortunate to have you

3:01

here. If he's hearing anything other than what I intend

3:03

right now, I'm in big trouble. I'm

3:05

being very flattering, are and I am being very Did

3:08

I do it right? Doctor Moore?

3:10

Beautifully warm and at

3:12

home and well loved?

3:14

Well? Thank you? That is Jason.

3:17

So was I right about the fact that texting

3:19

is now picking over? Where is

3:21

this all going.

3:23

Well, it's all going to be misunderstood

3:26

at at a really startling and alarming

3:28

rate. And that's the real issue. I

3:31

urge people to use smiley

3:33

faces and emoticons of various kinds,

3:36

even if you think they're childish, because

3:38

that at least produces the negative bias

3:41

that we're talking about earlier, which

3:43

is profound.

3:44

And just to.

3:46

Explain doctor Alexander what it's about.

3:49

You imagine

3:51

yourself as a as a cave person leaving

3:54

the cave and walking through the savannah

3:56

or the jungle or whatever, and you

3:59

see a shadow out of the corner of your eye

4:02

if you're uh kind of California

4:04

dude, and you go, hey, cool, that's just a nice

4:06

shadow. The next thing that happens is you get eaten

4:08

by a sabertoothed tiger. If you're the anxious

4:11

type, you take evasive action. We're

4:13

descended from those anxious people that

4:15

kept us, kept them and us alive.

4:22

Research, by the way, tells me that the sabertooth

4:24

tiger and the Homo sapien did not co exist

4:27

at the same time, according to the tar

4:29

pets where I'm told. But

4:32

that's fine. I understand what he's saying, and you

4:34

know what ext predators.

4:36

Hey, the subtext

4:39

I am not an expert in, but

4:43

what you're hearing here from my partners.

4:45

The subtext here is because I proposed

4:47

that and was correct, and you reinforced it. He's

4:49

a little bit irritic just to tad that is

4:51

correct.

4:52

You communicated that perfectly. That

4:54

is correct.

4:56

I've seen that in all these surveys in businesses

4:58

they feel their emoticon and stuff. Emojis

5:01

are less than professional, especially over

5:03

a certain age, under a certain age, much

5:05

more acceptable over a certain age.

5:07

And and to tack onto that, there

5:11

are so many of them now that

5:14

you know. I sometimes I'll send a text and

5:16

I'll try and be creative. So there's one that's like a goofy

5:18

face, you know, and I'll

5:21

put that on and and then I go, well, I wonder

5:23

if that can be misinterpreted that I'm what

5:26

you know, that doesn't say probably specifically

5:28

enough, so yeah, it's you probably get

5:30

misunderstood, or it probably means something already.

5:33

Yeah, thanks to the teenagers some

5:36

of whom may be watching, they've already appropriated

5:38

and used it for something else. I

5:41

like to use the laughter face

5:43

with the two tears

5:45

coming down out of the eyes, and my

5:48

son, my teenage son, tells me that

5:50

that's I can't do that anymore.

5:53

That doesn't mean I won't tell me what it means, but he

5:55

says, it doesn't mean what I think.

5:57

He won't tell you what it means.

5:59

No, you won't, he said. As I'm it's I'm

6:01

hopeless. I'm too old, too very.

6:03

Much sweet relationship good with

6:05

son. Doesn't it feel like i't home

6:09

even the expert son's going on.

6:11

Yeah, But that's just

6:13

to sort of drill

6:16

into that a little bit, because I have the same situation

6:18

with my grown sons. I have a thirty one and twenty seven year

6:20

old son, and Peter has grown children

6:22

too. It's hard,

6:25

just hard. It feels like they call this in some ways

6:27

the age of communication. I find that communication

6:29

in general is getting harder

6:31

and harder and harder, even having I have

6:33

a group of friends. Peter is one of them with whom I have

6:35

substantive conversations and

6:38

we know each other's hearts well enough that we

6:40

can be irreverent, and everybody understands

6:42

it's trying to amuse each other. It's trying

6:44

to be in fun. There's never any harm intended

6:46

from it. But I find that the

6:49

circle of people with which I can have real

6:51

communication gets smaller and smaller

6:54

and smaller because there's so much open

6:57

to interpretation that is unintended.

7:00

Yeah, people take offense, and the reason

7:02

is that what we care about is each

7:05

other's intent, and intent

7:07

comes through strongly.

7:09

Face to face.

7:10

We have the five senses, and we get facial expressions

7:12

and a smile and a nod, and when

7:16

we move closer to people, we warm up the relationship.

7:19

You can't do any of that on a text, and

7:22

so the potential for it being negatively

7:24

interpreted is vast. And

7:26

on top of that, you reference that we're sending

7:29

more and more texts. We're getting drowned

7:31

in more and more information. We have to move

7:33

faster and faster, so we're sending

7:35

them more quickly, hence the

7:37

typos, and we're reading them more

7:39

quickly, thereby opening ourselves

7:41

to misinterpretation, so that it's

7:45

a never ending doom loop basically of communications.

7:48

In spite of the fact that we're surrounded by all these tools,

7:51

in all these wonderful ways to communicate.

7:54

We're also multitest driving

7:56

in today, I just was looking around more than usual

7:59

to see how many people were texting while they're driving.

8:01

So I don't even have your full attention while

8:03

you're texting me back.

8:05

You don't even or sadly you

8:07

have their fish and the driver next

8:09

to the crash.

8:11

The part of this that I think comes

8:13

through that Laurie and I were joking about the Goddess into

8:15

the episode, was it also diminishes the person who's

8:18

receiving it. You write something heartfelt

8:20

and somebody sends you back liked,

8:23

they hit one button to say you couldn't even

8:25

get your thumbs going to say hey, I really

8:27

appreciate you. I mean, that is diminishing.

8:30

And I think that all that does. This all

8:32

chip away at communication. And again I don't

8:34

want to be the guys that's the next generation without

8:37

face to face contact

8:39

is missing out on something that's really

8:42

important to getting things right.

8:44

So if the.

8:45

Errors are that prevalent, how

8:47

is that impacting society? What are we getting

8:49

wrong societally that's

8:52

chipping away at our communication?

8:54

Well, I think the evidence is all around us. I mean, especially

8:57

during the pandemic, incidents of mental

8:59

health issues went up and up and up, and drug

9:01

abuse and alcohol abuse and so on them we became

9:04

more depressed, more alienated, and more

9:06

isolated lonelier as a society,

9:09

and the face to face interaction

9:12

is one way to help that get a little

9:14

bit better.

9:25

Doctor Morton.

9:29

Is, there seems to be even

9:33

in face to face communication, there

9:36

seems to be so many more, for

9:40

lack of a better word, landmines,

9:42

unintended mishaps

9:45

or insults, or this whole canceling

9:47

phenomena. Sometimes somebody espouses

9:49

something which is really reprehensible and they pay

9:52

a social price for it. But sometimes

9:54

it's truly unintended, or they're

9:56

discussing something that has you

9:58

know, it's more than just

10:00

a cut and dry thing. It's a discussion

10:03

to be had, and we are so quick to judge

10:06

people and punish

10:08

people in the act of trying to

10:10

communicate, even face to

10:12

face. I mean, you

10:15

spend a lot of time teaching people to communicate

10:18

more effectively, But I

10:22

don't even know what question I'm asking. It just seems like

10:24

it's becoming harder and harder

10:27

and harder to express yourself

10:29

fully and genuinely without

10:31

being misinterpreted or without

10:34

somehow offending someone unintentionally.

10:36

How do do you agree in it?

10:37

So?

10:38

How do you, how do you deal with that?

10:40

Well, I think that's well,

10:42

first of all, it's an interesting question, and second,

10:44

I think it's a it's sort of a combination of

10:46

trends that are ultimately healthy

10:49

for society and trends which are

10:51

not healthy. And a

10:53

lot of the issues that we're talking

10:55

about have no question, been

10:57

made worse by the by the digital

11:00

world we're living in. No question, we're

11:03

also becoming more open. I mean, when I started

11:05

in the public speaking business, somebody

11:07

was going to get up and speak. They would

11:10

never share any of their individual history,

11:13

their personal history. They would talk about some business

11:16

issue or some academic issue. Nowadays

11:18

it's odd if you don't share something of your

11:21

personal journey. We want to know what do

11:23

you have at stake here, what's in it for you? And

11:26

so I think on the whole, that's a

11:28

healthy trend. But it also means there's a lot

11:30

more personal, prickly,

11:33

potentially embarrassing, vulnerable

11:35

stories out there, and we do get across

11:37

if you step on those stories

11:39

or make us feel bad about them. So I think

11:42

all of our sensibilities and

11:44

sense of vulnerability have increased.

11:47

So how have we changed it for COVID? How

11:49

much. Had society change, I know that zoom,

11:53

we probably wouldn't be able to do this. And I'm

11:55

not sure of the year when this happened, but it used

11:57

to be guessing we're in person stuff. Now it's acceptable.

12:00

Zoom is the zoom became a thing during

12:02

the pandemic? I mean, I know, I think it existed before

12:04

the pandemic, But has it changed

12:07

in any profound way the way

12:09

we communicate, the way we do this has videocy

12:12

Yeah.

12:13

Oh absolutely what I was working

12:16

on a book on virtual communications in

12:18

twenty seventeen, I would ask

12:20

people in the Fortune thousand

12:23

company how much videocarpacying do

12:25

you do? How widespread is it in organization?

12:27

It turned out on average it was five percent

12:30

organization use video currency. In

12:32

twenty twenty, I happened to call back one of

12:34

the CEOs I had interviewed in twenty

12:37

seventeen. I said, how you doing and he said,

12:39

yeah, it took us three days, the entire companies using

12:41

it. It was a huge sea change

12:44

because we had to keep working somehow.

12:46

And now now we're hybrid

12:49

and we can do it either way. And

12:51

it's actually we don't think of it this

12:53

way because we had to live through a pandemic to get

12:55

here, But it's actually broadened our communications

12:59

palate andiful way we can connect.

13:01

The three of us can connect, whereas before

13:04

it would have involved travel on at

13:06

least one of our parts, right, jet

13:09

lag and uncomfortable nights and hotels

13:12

and bad food and whatever else.

13:13

Wow. But

13:15

anecdotally it's also created a

13:18

situation. Again, one

13:20

of my big things is I

13:22

always prefer real human

13:25

contact rather than technology.

13:27

But I anecdotally know more people

13:29

who are really upset when

13:32

they're when the mandate is let's get back to the

13:35

office, they don't want They much prefer

13:37

this. They don't want to get back to the office.

13:41

Is that I'm not sure if this

13:43

is your area, But is that a does

13:46

this totally compensate or or are

13:49

we missing out on something by not gathering

13:51

at our workplaces and having

13:53

real contact.

13:55

Well I'm smiling because I worked with

13:57

a number of companies, with the executives and the companies

14:00

to figure out how to communicate with their employees

14:03

during the during the pandemic, and

14:05

they when

14:08

of the pandemics started easing, set

14:11

up these task forces and committees

14:13

to study what what would be the ideal amount

14:16

of time in office versus on

14:18

Zoom or on video comfting. And

14:21

one company I remember in particularly because

14:23

this happened pretty recently, studied the

14:25

problem for six months. They had a vast team

14:28

of employees at all levels of the organization

14:30

to figure this out, and they came up triumphantly with the idea

14:32

that three days a month was

14:34

the perfect amount, so everybody

14:36

in office to be in the office

14:39

the rest of the time you can work

14:41

on Zoom. And this was because of productivity

14:44

and savings in terms of how much office

14:46

space you needed and travel

14:48

and so on and so forth. The

14:50

policy had been in place for three weeks

14:53

when the executive team announced, okay,

14:55

it's three days a week. They

14:58

threw out all the research and just changed it in

15:01

the moment. Why because executives

15:03

don't feel like they can do what

15:05

they're hired to do, which is manage

15:07

people effectively on

15:09

Zoom. And the truth is you

15:12

can't. Managing is still pretty

15:14

much a face to face thing because

15:16

of all the nuances of human emotion and

15:18

interaction that we talked a little bit about earlier.

15:20

So they they can't

15:22

do it, but it's very it's very hard

15:25

on the employees who feel like, wait

15:27

a minute, I have to go back to commuting. I have to

15:29

go back to putting on long pants and the

15:31

press shirt.

15:32

I have to long pants.

15:34

How about just pants? Curing?

15:35

I mean, give me yes, please,

15:39

looking I can't take my dog for a walk. You know a

15:41

lot of things that I got used to doing. Hang

15:43

out with my kids for an hour during the middle of the day when

15:45

they come home from school. You know, those kind

15:47

of things really made for a nice quality of life.

15:50

And by the way, most of those employees

15:52

were more productive, but it

15:54

didn't work for the management and guess who runs

15:56

companies.

15:57

And the management teams.

15:58

Research showed that eye contact

16:00

is important and people don't make eye contact as much

16:03

on Zoom. And then I saw also with interviews,

16:05

especially a first interviews, job much

16:07

more negative if the interview is done on Zoom

16:09

than it's done on person because they can't get all

16:11

of the rest of the stuff. So again, are they

16:13

trying to Is there a way to make

16:15

Zoom better from a communication standpoint

16:17

that you see.

16:19

The real reason that

16:21

you have those experiences, The real

16:23

reason Zoom or any video communication

16:26

isn't really great yet is something

16:29

that they don't teach you about in school. It's called

16:31

appropriate reception. It's your

16:33

sixth sense, and it's

16:35

the sense that you use

16:38

unconsciously to keep track of where you are in space

16:40

so you don't bump into things, and where the

16:42

people around you are in space. And

16:45

that's very important to us. We care very much

16:47

whether you're moving closer to me or away from

16:49

me. We care if you're within

16:52

a few feet of me, so you're in my personal space

16:54

versus more distant. So

16:57

you're tracking that all the time, and in fact, you track

16:59

that if you're a partner, if you have

17:01

one, so that you don't roll over and punch your partner

17:03

in the head that night while you're asleep. You're doing

17:05

this twenty four to seven. It's a really important

17:08

sense, and they don't tell you about it in school.

17:10

So what happens on zoom is

17:13

you two look to me like you're about

17:15

an arm's length away,

17:18

So that would say you're in my personal

17:21

space and I need to pay close attention. But you're

17:23

the wrong size for that. You're too way too tiny

17:26

to be that close. So my proprioception

17:28

sense goes where the heck are these people,

17:30

and it causes me stress, but I

17:32

can't work out where you are. And so after

17:36

a while I start to tune out, and I

17:38

say, these people aren't real. They

17:40

I don't know where they are. They're not really in my personal

17:42

space. So I can't interact with them in the way

17:44

that I would if they were as close as

17:47

my next screen was. So yeah, that's the real

17:49

issue, is proprioception.

17:51

I actually worked with an improvisation

17:54

company that was on a Zoom

17:56

sort of beta test. It was it was not Zoom, it

17:58

was something else where they

18:01

could move forward and back

18:04

in the screen. They could they could sort

18:06

of keep a distance so

18:09

it looked like they were, you know, further

18:11

way or if they wanted to emphasize something

18:14

or take the stage. Because it was an improt it was

18:16

a way to do improvisation on

18:18

a screen. They could move forward and

18:20

move downstage. It was very strange.

18:23

It was really really strange.

18:24

I have to see the propritation you did it unsightfuled

18:26

close talker of the close close

18:29

talker is the thing. The other thing that I read and I just

18:31

remembered it now, is that the person

18:34

on Zoom is using what they call anchorman

18:36

energy. In other words, you're sitting

18:38

differently than you would when you're just hanging out. You're

18:41

projecting differently, and there's a fatigue

18:43

to that that everybody on there is projecting

18:45

Anchorman. And whereas if I'm sitting with you,

18:48

I'm at lunch, I'm kind of doing whatever here. I

18:50

have to sit up. I have to be paying attention to something.

18:52

You come to take a meeting with me and you sit back

18:54

in your chair with the spread legs like that, You're

18:57

out of here, buddy. I'm not taking that kind of attitude

18:59

from you. The man is an expert, doctor

19:01

is an expert in body language. What do you think you're saying

19:03

to me when you sit back like that legs

19:05

akimbo, with your attitude, with

19:08

your little attitude. I'm

19:10

picking it up, right, am I?

19:12

Right?

19:12

Dona, you got it, You caught it. I'm sure the

19:14

man is an expert. It's the first thing you're

19:16

in Sussians, your lack of regard

19:18

or respect, your sort of I

19:20

don't even need to be here. I got

19:23

it all.

19:24

So all these years we've had a proteo perception

19:26

problem. Oh yeah, and we didn't and you never told

19:28

me, you know, I didn't have a word.

19:30

Right, Well, guess right, I'm

19:32

here for you now.

19:33

All right, how do you like that?

19:34

I'm here totally private? Tell me what

19:36

you gotta tells better?

19:37

Better know why it's better you're off, Mike, you gotta.

19:40

I got a mold.

19:41

It looks it looks like.

19:45

You're off. I was making a point, was making

19:48

a point.

19:48

But I should have told you about the ultimate

19:51

space, which is the intimate space that's eighteen

19:53

inches to a zero. And and that's

19:55

a powerful taboo. Only your intimates

19:57

can violate that.

19:59

You're not kidding.

20:00

Eighteen eighteen inches

20:02

to zero.

20:03

Yeah, it's my new my personal

20:05

space.

20:05

Maybe a little bit wider than zero.

20:09

I got to remember that, doctor,

20:13

so you talked about you know, I know one of

20:15

the things we started this conversation with was texting

20:18

and how to make texting more clear and our intention

20:20

more clear. But I

20:22

actually worry about all of our sort of text

20:25

of communication, Mike. Like

20:27

Mike, My older son his

20:30

college entrance essay

20:33

was about phone phobia. Is phone phobia?

20:36

Both my sons have phone phobia. They

20:38

are insanely

20:40

nervous about speaking to someone

20:42

on the phone. They will do anything

20:45

to avoid it. You mean speaking live, speaking

20:47

live Yeah, And do

20:50

you see any trending in younger

20:52

people to being worse

20:54

and worse at interpersonal live

20:57

spoken communication because we're doing

21:00

so much of the texting and the typing, and that

21:03

I just worry that we're getting that

21:05

having a person a person live

21:08

in space conversation is just going to get harder

21:10

and harder.

21:11

I think there's absolutely no question that that's

21:13

happening amongst especially amongst

21:16

young people or anybody who spends a lot of time texting.

21:18

And I had a very affecting communication

21:22

from somebody. I

21:25

was speaking to an audience about

21:27

these issues, and afterwards

21:30

I got a text, of course from

21:32

a person in the audience who said, I'm I've

21:35

got social phobia of some

21:37

sort. And for me, being able

21:40

to control what I say and when

21:42

I send the communication and then being

21:44

able to muse over and

21:46

think about the response, whatever response

21:49

I may get, and then respond to that, for

21:51

me, that element of control is very

21:53

reassuring and very helpful not to

21:55

provoke that kind of phobia. So at

22:00

stream it's a more

22:02

reassuring and comforting setting for some people,

22:04

and I think that will only increase.

22:07

That is, people who like that kind of control

22:09

and that uncertainty, or to reduce

22:12

that kind of uncertainty will only increase the

22:14

more time we spend in that space,

22:17

because you get unused to you have to practice

22:20

being face to face. It's a whole

22:22

set of powerful, unconscious cues that

22:24

can overwhelm you if you haven't done it for a while.

22:26

Yeah, Sabashian metsicalco do the whole thing about

22:28

when we were growing up, the phone ranging. People ran to

22:30

get it. Oh my god, it's

22:32

Grandma. Now the phone rings, and I even do this phone

22:35

rings and go, what.

22:36

The hell is calling?

22:37

It's like going to Saw producer Laurie.

22:39

She goes into fits of rage if you call

22:42

her. I put a clock on the timer because

22:44

it's just she hates she hates the phone. Yeah,

22:46

and there's a certain generation, the generation

22:49

now, I guess below thirty. Oh my god,

22:52

it's worse than death. Calling and

22:54

trying what my son what I

22:56

mean? He'd rather just texts me, just let me know. I

22:58

said, it's a little complicated, and I want to kind of give

23:00

you some context there. Yeah, what,

23:03

well, it's it's that. It's it's hit and run

23:05

communication. Now, And you're smiling, doctor,

23:07

because that's that's where we're at, and more and more people

23:10

hate the phone even coming to the house.

23:12

Somebody comes to your door, Now, who the

23:14

hell comes on? And now you used to be oh

23:16

my god, we got visitors? A yeah,

23:19

oh my god, anybody anybody coming?

23:21

Was like, look we got a visitor. Now get the gun,

23:24

get the lights, get on the floor, yeir,

23:26

pull the shades. What has happened to society

23:29

that way? You're saying we got to practice

23:31

face to face. People don't want to be face

23:33

to face. It seems like it's going the other way pretty rapidly,

23:36

right.

23:37

It's a it's a negativity

23:39

bias that comes about, as we mentioned

23:41

earlier, from from virtual

23:43

communications, because we're not getting clear read

23:45

on the intent. So we got out of practice and

23:47

we assume the worst, and then we start to sour

23:50

on all our human relations.

23:52

I mean, this sounds pretty dire to me. I

23:54

almost feel like I just

23:57

worry that our ability to communicate

23:59

with each other is some

24:01

sort of existentially in

24:04

jeopardy at this point. If

24:07

we're really just reduced to,

24:09

you know, sixteen word texts and an emoji.

24:11

I just really worry

24:14

about what is it to be a human

24:16

being?

24:18

Fortunately, Fortunately, we learn to

24:21

communicate in the

24:23

cradle from our mothers and

24:25

fathers, and hopefully as long as there's a

24:27

love between parent and child and there's

24:29

all that baby talk and cooing and those interactions

24:32

that go on, that we'll get the basics. And yeah,

24:35

we'll get a little nervous when

24:37

we turn teenager and start using the phone

24:39

and forget how to talk to humans, but we

24:41

can relearn if we've got that base base

24:44

there. So you know, mom's, dads,

24:46

keep loving your kids, and I think we'll be okay.

24:48

Can I just assume that when my grown

24:50

or teenage children answer me in a monosyllabic

24:53

frunt that what they're saying is I don't

24:55

want to talk to you. Is

24:58

is that true? Because that's what it feels like.

25:02

Yeah, sure, that's

25:06

about well you.

25:07

Know what again, See that's what I go

25:09

to They don't want to talk to me. It can be that they're

25:12

having a tough time with something and they don't

25:14

know how to express. I mean, there's all kinds of things. I was

25:17

really strengt I tend to go, oh, few,

25:19

if you're not going to talk to me, I'm your father. Damn.

25:21

My wife would always tell me, leave them alone,

25:23

don't talk to them right now. And Laurie, you're better at this from

25:25

a mom perspective. Don't talk to them right now, don't

25:28

confront stuff. They'll talk when they're ready to talk.

25:30

And the car was magic because you're not looking

25:32

at it. When you're driving your kids somewhere.

25:34

Usually stuff comes up in the car, and I think

25:36

it's because you're not making eye contact

25:39

and I'm making and there's something safe about that. You're

25:41

going somewhere, something else happening. I

25:43

wonder, doctors, does that make sense to you?

25:46

Yeah, it does.

25:46

It's a body language thing. I

25:49

recommend people to do this as speakers. If

25:52

they get a lot of aggressive questioning from somebody,

25:54

for example, the thing to do is

25:56

to move toward them, which is counterintuitive and

25:59

you don't feel like doing it. You want to get away, but

26:01

you move toward them, and then you align themselves

26:03

so you're facing in the same direction. So what

26:05

happens when two human beings are facing in

26:07

the same direction is they feel like already

26:09

they're prime to agree on things. So

26:12

it's much It's much better to sit next

26:14

to your teenager than it is to

26:17

sit across from them. So you want

26:19

to sit down at the table, make eye contact

26:21

with them. To them, that feels aggressive

26:23

and like you're going to give them twenty twenty questions.

26:26

If you sit next to them, then now we're suddenly

26:29

aligned. We're in agreement before we

26:31

even.

26:31

Open our problems. I just anecdotally, Peter

26:33

and I have been sitting next to each other for forty episodes.

26:35

I've never had a big miss staying one. I never once.

26:38

Well, you know what you just told me, doctor, my son and I

26:40

are fighting. All we have to do is drive to Cleveland and

26:43

we're gonna figure we can. We can figure this

26:45

out.

26:46

Doctor.

26:46

Thank you so much for coming on this. Absolutely.

26:48

I wonder though, if everybody listening, and

26:50

you're an expert at this under thirty is going, yeah,

26:52

these more on stunt because they grew up

26:54

with it. They grew up with it. They get it at second

26:57

nature. So us even discussing it is,

26:59

why are they talking thinking about it. I'm not compromised

27:01

as far as I.

27:03

Get it, but I actually have one question before you go, this

27:06

is probably impossible, but is

27:08

there Let's just keep it to our world

27:10

of texting. And I know you said emojis are a great

27:12

idea. Is there a simple thing

27:15

that we could adopt that

27:17

would make what we really intend

27:19

more clear? Is it more language? Less?

27:22

Language? Is just the emoji? Is there was

27:24

sort of a simple rule for yeah,

27:26

there is.

27:26

What we're looking for is emotion. I want

27:28

to know what your intent toward me is. Is

27:31

it positive? Is it negative? At the simplest level,

27:33

is it said in a loving tone? I want to know what the tone

27:35

of voices. We started with the example

27:38

of good job. You can say that with a warm,

27:40

friendly good job, or you can say it with

27:42

an eye roll and mean it

27:45

sarcastically. So if you're not using

27:47

emojis, then put into the text

27:49

some positive, loving word that

27:53

conveys what your intent. I'm

27:55

assuming it is that.

27:57

Kids that even misinterpret I give the thumb

27:59

up emoji and they go, oh, that's like yeah,

28:02

so.

28:02

What are I do? Jason and miss You No, really,

28:06

I mean our whole show is based on the premise that

28:08

you bsked with your first answer you gave me, so

28:11

we go right to know? Really? Yeah, so

28:13

is that I guess to know?

28:14

Really?

28:15

Part of this is the subtext

28:17

of explaining what I just meant and almost

28:19

joking with Laurie when I said, hey, looking forward

28:21

to seeing you said with empathy

28:24

and understanding, caring, and then you figure

28:26

it that's that you're being. Now you're being starcastic. Well,

28:29

thank you.

28:30

The whole world has become marriage therapy. I get

28:32

it. Okay, doctor,

28:35

thank you for coming on. Thank

28:37

you so much. So

28:47

Ja.

28:47

I know I didn't say anything while we were on with

28:50

the doctor. But body language,

28:52

I mean a big part of this is body language. And I

28:54

know, I think I know how you feel about Why don't

28:56

you tell everybody what's your sense of body language?

28:58

Not a thing? It's not a thing. And

29:01

what makes me crazy? I mean, I'm sure there's

29:03

a little bit to it, but in general what

29:06

always made me crazy. You'd see like a presidential

29:08

debate and then you'd go to the CNN panel

29:10

and two people with the body language experts,

29:13

and when he said this, he was insecure,

29:15

and when she said that she was attracted

29:17

to him? Or would you go what what?

29:20

I was on radio for how many years? And

29:22

I was always pitch after every debate

29:24

body iriage expert and I never had one on I'll

29:26

tell you why. I'll tell you what. He was hunched

29:29

over and looked severe. He ate

29:31

chili for lunch, and it's kicking back.

29:34

He just realized his taxes, his account

29:36

going right before.

29:37

You don't know what's going on. And the other thing is and I and again,

29:39

I do believe I honestly when I

29:41

say it's not a thing, I'm kind of joking. I understand

29:44

there is real research behind this information.

29:46

But if I sit next to a

29:49

dour teenager and I sit side by

29:51

side with him in a in a restaurant

29:54

booth, I know I'm

29:56

now more uncomfortable because I got this dour

29:58

energy sitting right off my and I've

30:01

never had a substantive conversation except

30:04

in a car. Par does work. Par does work.

30:06

I've never had a substantive conversation with somebody

30:08

sitting next to me facing the same

30:10

direction I've never done.

30:11

Look at this poket where we face. Well,

30:14

it's the most substance thing you do.

30:15

Let we're sharing it. I

30:17

get paid for it. Actually I haven't gotten

30:20

paid wonder headset for this yet. What is

30:22

the money to your

30:24

body language?

30:25

Right now?

30:26

Oh?

30:27

Your body language only change. I'll tell

30:29

you the other thing, the emoji thing. He's

30:31

He's not wrong, but again, even by his own admission.

30:34

There's so many of them. We don't know what they

30:36

mean.

30:37

Now, the laughing guy with the tears

30:39

what anybody in the other room, anybody

30:42

in that room, Come on, everybody in there is like thirty.

30:44

What could it be? Is it a gang sign?

30:46

What could it be?

30:47

Is it like the tear drop sign in a prison? Looking

30:50

it up right now? When we go to him like are

30:53

we doing are we doing hieroglyphics? Now? Are

30:55

we going back to that? We're just going to communicate with each

30:57

other, like off the wall. The

31:00

only save things.

31:01

Motor Laurie does to me that I hate

31:03

more than L O L Hi.

31:06

How I decided to go in

31:08

the hospital. I'm gonna give you the kidney,

31:11

they say the recovery because if I have some other stuff

31:13

wrong with me, maybe a tough recovery of three

31:15

or four weeks, but it's not gonna deter me.

31:18

I'm gonna I decide, I'm gonna donate my kidney

31:20

to you.

31:20

And you get liked.

31:22

You get liked like

31:24

the guy you didn't even have enough

31:27

of a immertional have the end

31:29

of you're a freaking kidney like look

31:31

liked. You can't your thumbs, you can't

31:33

type something back?

31:35

My god, that makes me crazy. How

31:39

I'm in a cave? Come got me thumb?

31:41

You don't understand that, and the abbreviations

31:43

don't help, all right, so here we go.

31:45

I got some abbreviations if you want to be okay,

31:47

sure, and I don't know. Can I curse? Will bleep

31:49

it?

31:49

Yes? Okay? Well G O

31:51

A T that greatest of all? Okay,

31:53

right? I d G A F you

31:56

know what? I d G A F S. I don't

31:58

jump close close

32:01

big given't

32:04

okay?

32:04

Yeah, yep? P

32:06

O S What is if your team sends your p O S?

32:09

What is p O S e O S? Point

32:11

of service?

32:13

Parent over shoulder, parent over

32:15

shoulder? What's QQ mean? Let me send

32:17

you QQ q Q quick quick,

32:19

quick quick crime. It's

32:22

often you sarcastically like in other words, yeah you,

32:24

but sarcastically crying. In other words, you

32:27

hurt my feelings?

32:27

Not you know crime? How does QQ

32:30

convey that? I'm just telling you I

32:32

didn't write these. Oh, you're into a

32:34

whole different way. T

32:37

D p M T d d

32:40

M touching down.

32:42

There talk dirty

32:44

to me S S d D.

32:47

That's a that's a sexually transmitted

32:49

this same.

32:50

Stuff, different day. This

32:52

and this is my favorite because if you took the

32:54

time to send this t

32:57

L D R t

32:59

l A too long, didn't read

33:02

your mother, that's

33:04

like I never saw it, not anyway,

33:07

a little bit of an education.

33:09

Everybody gets it wrong. That's what I and

33:11

I everybody

33:14

tell you. You can't say anything right. You can't.

33:17

Let's go to go going, So.

33:20

Jason, I have a correction.

33:21

This is the second time I've had.

33:25

This.

33:25

The saber tooth cat

33:28

and Homo sapiens were on the

33:30

Earth at the same time.

33:32

They weren't at the LaBrea tarpets at the same time.

33:35

That's all I know. You know what I

33:37

can tell you because there's the Labria tarpets.

33:39

They go out of the way to say Homo sapiens. This is a

33:41

man by the way.

33:42

You can't correct because he'll go but they weren't the same place

33:44

at the same time. He always comes up with the next But

33:47

how did they know what?

33:48

There couldn't have been a guy in Bayonne, New

33:50

Jersey while they were saying no saber toothed time. I

33:53

do, okay, I, but believe you, I

33:55

have nothing else. This is relatively

33:57

news.

33:57

Signs that was discovered not do are

34:00

along, So perhaps they've changed

34:03

their talking.

34:05

That's what did

34:08

not exist. Almost apparently

34:10

they found three guys next to us.

34:12

They may

34:14

have they may have interacted. It's

34:17

probably in Europe, but they may have interacted.

34:19

But that that's a little bit all right, I stand

34:22

correct now. Now, if

34:24

you are being confused

34:26

by a lot of the things that Peter

34:28

was throwing at, you know, let's say, what.

34:31

Is r O F l uh

34:35

oh, that's one that comes around a lot right on

34:37

you frigging are

34:41

you rolling on the lower

34:45

laughing?

34:48

Yeah, So if that is too much

34:50

for you to type, it has an emoji

34:52

to replace it.

34:53

So if those are too tough, they're emoji.

34:56

So it's an emoji.

34:58

It's the happy face with smile

35:00

that is twisted a little bit to the side,

35:03

with tears coming out, and there's a lot of squinting.

35:06

That's what doesn't that's what the teenager couldn't

35:08

tell his father that that's what that means.

35:11

No, that's the instead of rolling

35:13

on the floor laughter, you will replace that with

35:16

the emoji with it.

35:17

With the doctor said that that

35:19

the smiling with the spirting eyes. As teenager

35:21

said, you don't even know what that means anymore? Dad,

35:23

And it was like, you know, it's a digger

35:26

we should never use. Well, they have a

35:28

lot of them.

35:29

Now there's there's face with tears

35:31

of joy, which is very similar

35:33

to rolling on the floor lamp or you

35:36

have loudly crying face,

35:38

which is you know whatever. There are

35:40

tears of joy, there are tears

35:42

of sadness.

35:45

So you know what I think,

35:47

it's let's let's let's do final you know my.

35:49

Find yourself,

35:52

you come about, you got it, you could do it, You could do it.

35:54

You know something.

35:54

Here's my final thought right now. You know what my final

35:57

thought is. They get older, Laurie's gonna love this. I'm

35:59

not calling any I'm not reaching out to anybody. I'm

36:01

not talking to anybody. I'm just sitting in my bedroom

36:03

in my underpants, watching shows all

36:05

day long. Because now they scream. I'm just gonna

36:07

scream till I die.

36:09

I hear. Not reaching out. I'm gonna sit right

36:11

beside you and will agree. Thank What

36:13

do you think of that? Well, in the same

36:15

underwear, looking in the same direction, n

36:17

r.

36:17

O, not reaching out, not reaching out or

36:22

naked reaching out?

36:23

So good night.

36:24

Yeah, that's that's it. I'm done, Laura. I'm never calling

36:26

you again. Right to us, let us thought about

36:29

an emoji two thumbs up. You

36:31

know what that means up here?

36:33

I know from Lauri, even

36:37

not as misread as exactly

36:39

what it means.

36:40

And I thank you for listening to another damn

36:42

it, Thank you, Laurie.

36:43

An episode of Really No Really?

36:45

What did you mean by that? What did you mean by.

36:51

Now?

36:51

Really?

36:56

Now?

36:56

Really?

36:57

As another episode of Really.

36:58

Really comes to a closure, possibly wondering,

37:00

has a miscommunication ever resulted

37:03

in tragedy on an enormous scale?

37:05

Well you can probably guess. But before I

37:07

give you the details, let's thank our guest, doctor

37:10

Nick Morgan. You can follow doctor Morgan

37:12

online at public words dot com. His podcast

37:15

is called Just One Question, and you can follow

37:17

him on Instagram, X and Facebook where

37:19

he is doctor Nick Morgan. You can find

37:22

us online at reallynoreally dot com, where

37:24

all the social media links are in the show notes.

37:26

We're also on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok,

37:28

and threads at Really No Really Podcasts.

37:31

Please check out our full episodes on YouTube.

37:33

Hit that subscribe button and tick that bills

37:35

You're updated for new videos and

37:37

thank you for listening, subscribing herd

37:40

emoji, and sharing the show. We release

37:42

new episodes of Really No Really every Tuesday,

37:44

so make sure to follow us on the iHeartRadio

37:47

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

37:49

you get your podcasts and now

37:51

has a miscommunication ever resulted

37:54

in unspeakable tragedy?

37:55

Well?

37:56

At the end of World War Two, the Allied leaders

37:58

of America, Britain, Russia, and China

38:01

called for Japan to surrender unconditionally

38:04

to avoid not only a land invasion

38:06

but the potential deployment of America's

38:08

newly developed nuclear bombs.

38:11

In response, the Japanese Prime Minister uttered

38:13

the single word mo kasatsu.

38:16

Unfortunately, mokusatsu has several

38:19

meanings depending on context. The

38:21

Prime Minister had meant it to mean no comment.

38:23

However, it was translated to the Allied

38:25

leaders to mean not worthy of

38:27

comment, held in contempt. So

38:30

instead of saying we're not ready to answer,

38:32

it was heard as your offer isn't even worthy

38:35

of an answer, A truly horrific

38:37

tragedy partially due to miscommunication.

38:40

Really No,

38:43

Really, Really

38:49

No Really is the production of iHeartRadio and Blase

38:51

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