0:01

Really now,

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really.

0:06

Really now,

0:09

really Hello, and welcome to Really No Really

0:11

with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden,

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who want you to know that subscribing

0:15

to our show would make a perfect holiday

0:18

gift.

0:18

Coincidentally enough, this episode is.

0:20

All about the holidays and why so many

0:23

families celebrate with extremely

0:25

odd and bizarre holiday traditions.

0:28

Perhaps the most famous bizarre holiday

0:30

tradition is the celebration of Festivus

0:33

from the television show Seinfeld,

0:36

with which I believe Jason has some sort of

0:38

passing acquaintance. The actual

0:40

Festivus was created by Seinfeld writer

0:42

Dan O'Keefe's father, and today Dan

0:45

speaks about the true origin of the

0:47

Festivus poll, the annual airing

0:49

of grievances and the demonstration

0:51

of feats of strength. He also

0:53

reveals the many horrors of

0:56

the real life celebration. So happy

0:58

holidays, and here's jam in Peter.

1:02

Now the holiday time and as

1:04

you know, I am associated

1:07

with a particular holiday. But what's

1:09

interesting and are really that kicks it off is

1:11

you. You shared with me that

1:14

your research has shown that over twenty percent

1:16

of people, over twenty percent of people say

1:19

that their families have bizarre.

1:21

Bizarre, unique holiday traditions,

1:24

traditions, right, So that led

1:26

us to, of course, the the

1:28

most holiday, that is the most famous

1:30

and the most bizarre, is made famous on

1:33

my former show Seinfeld is Christmas.

1:35

There's Hanka, there's

1:37

the festive Us, the festival for the

1:39

rest of Us, which was an actual

1:41

holiday created by

1:44

the father of the man who authored the episode.

1:46

And that man is, of course, mister Dan

1:48

O'Keefe's here with us today. Dan's a producer

1:51

and a writer known for a variety

1:53

of things Beavis and butt Head, Space Force, Veep,

1:55

Silicon Valley, Drew Carry Show, and

1:57

of course, most notably are Festivus

2:00

episode on Seinfeld.

2:02

And I am so delighted even

2:05

though well I haven't seen her talk to in probably

2:07

twenty years.

2:08

Dan, welcome to the show, sir.

2:10

Thank you Jason.

2:11

I'm flattered to me invited on And to be fair,

2:13

that was kind of close to the Festivus of it.

2:16

Yeah, people do not know the argent. We'll find

2:18

out the argent. But I did laugh

2:20

when id that you were actually

2:22

invited on different times to people's

2:24

houses over the holidays who were actually

2:27

observing a form of festivsts and

2:29

didn't know that it was from

2:31

your family.

2:33

That has happened on a number of occasions. I am

2:35

so far unanimous

2:37

in my streak of saying no thank you. I'm

2:39

sure I hope they had a lovely time, but

2:41

wow, wow, yeah, that's happened a number of

2:43

times.

2:44

Wow.

2:44

So the origin is not what people think

2:46

right the way we laid it out on

2:48

the show. I guess the origins

2:51

of those ideas may be from what you

2:53

and your dad, your family created.

2:55

But what can you walk us through

2:58

for people that don't know what

3:00

your organic festivus was?

3:04

My organic festivus was a

3:07

living hell on earth that appeared

3:09

at random throughout the year at

3:12

an unspecified date. It didn't have

3:14

It wasn't really December twenty thirty. It was whenever

3:17

my father felt like it. One year there

3:19

were none, one year there were two. And

3:23

it arose out of the fact that my dad was

3:25

basically a more feral Frank Costanza

3:28

who spent thirty forty fifty years

3:30

desperately trying to turn himself into Fraser Crane.

3:34

He escaped from Jersey the Greenville

3:36

ward of Jersey City, which at the time was sort

3:38

of like a you know, a Southey, and

3:40

he was the first in his family to go to college, and I think

3:42

one of the first to finish high school,

3:44

and got rid of his accident at Oxford

3:47

and just decided to wash the stink of Jersey

3:49

off himself with excessive amounts of education, including

3:52

an obsession with the plays of Samuel.

3:53

Beckett who Wow,

3:57

There's a lot.

3:57

There's a lot of Wow Wow, including and

4:00

on his first date with my mother, he lent her

4:02

a copy of the play Craps Last Tape. Now, in the play

4:04

Craps Last Tape, it's an old man listening

4:06

to her.

4:07

You're a song and dance man.

4:08

You're you're talking my language,

4:10

Go ahead, an.

4:12

Old man listening to tape recordings of

4:14

a slightly younger man listening to recordings

4:16

of a slightly younger man. So the original

4:18

Festivus was indeed an airing of

4:20

grievances, but it was an area of grievances in which

4:23

my brothers and I were made to listen to

4:25

recordings of my father complaining the year

4:27

before, while listening to recordings

4:30

of my father complaining the year before, and

4:32

so on and so on, in a series of Russian

4:35

nesting dolls. It

4:37

was occasionally exhilarating.

4:40

Most often there

4:43

was There was a tremendous amount

4:45

of liquor involved. I mean it was just in my Later

4:48

in my life, my dad lost fifty five pounds

4:50

by switching to light beer and started

4:53

wearing suits from the fifties that fit him

4:55

again. And it was like he dressed

4:57

like Kramer. He was wearing these like ancient tipster vintage

4:59

jobs. It was crazy. And

5:02

it was my father drunkenly complaining into

5:04

a tape recorder about the

5:06

corrosive effect of internal Reader's digest

5:09

politics, about how we had

5:11

disappointed him during the year, about how my mother

5:13

did not keep a clean house, about

5:15

how his relatives were awful, which was actually

5:18

kind of you know, not always incorrect. There

5:20

was a lot of strange music

5:22

that was played. He played of

5:24

this record containing songs

5:27

of the Irish Republican Army, but also weird

5:30

the strange novelty pop

5:33

records from Germany and Italy

5:35

from like the forties, fifties, and sixties. They

5:37

actually there's an Italian version of Alvin

5:39

and the Chipmunks. That's the most terrifying thing I've ever

5:41

heard in my life. The Chipmunks

5:43

and the Irish

5:46

rebels being hanged by the British, and the strange

5:48

German accordion stuff and

5:51

all over that a litany of complaints,

5:53

and then he would encourage us to complain ourselves,

5:55

and then when we complained too much, you would complain that we were

5:57

complaining too much.

5:58

It was.

5:59

It was a combination of alcoholism

6:01

and borderline child endangerment that should

6:03

have had the New York stands away and raised

6:05

us in a facility. But at

6:08

the time, you know, child protective

6:10

Services just was not not up this enough

6:12

in the New York area.

6:13

So, uh, there you have it.

6:15

So wait, that's your family. You brother would

6:18

cry, you would cry. I mean

6:20

it was. It was horrifying. And also had a clock

6:22

nailed in a bag to the wall rather than a

6:24

Paul right.

6:25

Best of his poll is a By the way, I

6:27

should mention I didn't author the entire

6:29

episode. I wrote it along with Jeff Schaffer

6:31

and Alec Berg, who arguably wrote some of the better stuff.

6:34

But the symbol is not a pole. That

6:36

was a Shaeffer joke.

6:38

The real symbol of the holiday

6:40

was my father took an ancient rusted

6:42

alarm clock put it in like a

6:44

burlapsed sack and then nailed

6:46

it to the wall.

6:48

And I don't know why.

6:49

He never told you represent

6:51

He would always say the same thing, that's not for

6:54

you to know.

6:55

And I don't know what it means, and I

6:57

still to this day.

6:58

And something about the e n s of

7:00

time, of life, of youth, I

7:03

don't know. I know that it was a wedding present that

7:05

he and my mom got, so maybe it's something about their

7:07

marriage.

7:07

I don't even want to know. But oh, there was.

7:09

By the way, another symbol of a festivus

7:12

was a sign hand letter that read fascism

7:15

that my father would tape to the wall.

7:17

He wouldn't nail that to the wall.

7:19

But the thing is that sign also

7:21

came out sometimes at Thanksgiving and sometimes

7:23

at Christmas.

7:24

Wow, so I

7:26

read that you said your dad was an undiagnosed bipolar

7:29

also at the time, was this at least

7:31

so this was

7:33

there joy ever? Or was this always

7:36

the storm that was brewing underneath for

7:38

your dad?

7:39

It was incredibly charismatic and brilliant,

7:43

brilliant man, I mean. The New York Times compared his

7:45

book, his thousand page Unified

7:48

Field Theory of Anthropology, Psychology

7:50

and sociology. He could compare it to Mark

7:52

Starwin and Freud in their review, although

7:55

not only people in Japan read it, but for

7:57

some reason. But yeah,

8:00

it was terrifying, but there were it was interspersed

8:02

with moments of joy. He was very funny.

8:05

He made it funny while it was happening. But

8:07

for the most part it was It

8:10

was mostly like they say, war

8:12

is mostly boring with moments of terror, but that

8:15

occasionally it's fun.

8:16

Damn, damn God.

8:18

And you didn't want this out there, that the story is your

8:20

brother Mark right stil De means accidentally.

8:24

We came to the realization very young.

8:26

If you go to school elemlentary school and say, hey,

8:28

we had festivusts this weekend, When when did

8:30

you have it? People will look at you and say excuse

8:33

me, and it will you will immediately be put on a more rigorous

8:35

beating schedule. So we had a vow

8:37

of silence that was semi formally

8:39

taken, and I had literally blocked it

8:41

out of my mind. And then Mark

8:44

goes and opens his yap at a party

8:46

that Jeff Jay for, aleck Berg, Dave Mandel,

8:49

some of the executive producers, along with Jerry the final

8:51

season of the show a party they were

8:53

at and they were immediately excuse me, I

8:55

want to hear more about this. So then I

8:57

was lured to a diner called swing

9:00

On On on Beverly and they

9:02

sort of pinned me down in a booth.

9:04

They sat, you know, around me, so I couldn't get out, and they

9:06

said, we want to talk about Festivus

9:09

and I actually hadn't thought about

9:11

it in years for a reason. I was like, uh,

9:13

oh, how did you hear about that? I'm

9:16

really sorry you had to take up those brain cells

9:18

with that information. And they're like, no, we want

9:20

to put it on the show, and I said, no, you really really don't.

9:22

You You're making a terrible mistake. This

9:25

show is a is a perfect thing. This is the greatest

9:28

common the history of television. And you want to essentially

9:31

smear feces on it.

9:32

You're mad. You're mad.

9:34

Jeff Shaeffer, Alec Berg, Dave Mandel. But you

9:36

know, as it turned out, I was dead wrong. Jerry

9:38

wanted to do it, and they were completely right. Now there

9:41

was It turns out there was a version that

9:43

was consumable by a mass audience. I thought

9:45

that it would lead

9:48

to to not good

9:50

things, but.

9:52

And the stuff that was created

9:55

for the for the television version of Festivus,

9:57

that was all that was all sort

10:00

of a mutual mind mold

10:02

right the pole, the feats of strength, the airing

10:04

of grievance is.

10:05

The general negativity

10:07

around it, the Georgia attitude

10:10

toward it is taken from reality because they

10:12

doesn't want to talk about it. What runs when his father

10:14

brings it up. But the

10:17

specifics of it did change. Now, the

10:19

airing of grievances was the central tenet

10:21

of the original. Yes, but

10:24

and though there was always the implicit threat

10:26

of violence from my father, there was not actually

10:28

a wrestling of parental

10:30

wrestling thing, Nor was there a poll that

10:33

did.

10:33

Come out of the.

10:35

Rest the wait ratio with an alec Berg joke,

10:38

the pole itself with

10:42

Schaeffer, I think the twenty third to

10:44

get a to get a head start on Christmas, I think

10:46

that was Dave. People just filled in the

10:48

blanks to put together a more palatable

10:51

version of this,

10:54

you know, remake of the Mosquito Coast that I lived

10:57

And.

10:58

Do you remember it? So? Do you remember? We

11:01

want to get into what it felt like writing in the writer's room for

11:03

signfel, etc. But do you remember being

11:05

there when they shot that episode? What what what

11:08

went through your head and what you felt emotionally watching

11:10

this? What was that weak like for you?

11:13

You know, here we are.

11:13

It was like an out of body experience. And I remember thinking

11:15

something that I hadn't thought since I left for college, which

11:18

is, my father might actually physically murder

11:20

me over this and.

11:23

So, and I couldn't tell.

11:25

If it was good or not, Like it's one of the things where

11:27

you're right, And obviously that happens

11:29

in shows that are not taken partially

11:32

from your childhood. But in

11:35

that case, what I was hoping was the following

11:38

I was hoping that. I was hoping that Festivus

11:40

would be left on the editing room floor. I

11:42

thought, look, we have a there's a Jerry story,

11:44

a George's story, a Cramer story, and a Laine's

11:47

story. This is a Frank story,

11:49

this is a fifth story. There's no way to survive

11:51

the editing process. So I comforted myself

11:54

by saying, it'll.

11:55

All be fine.

11:56

They're just gonna snip it around the edges and then they'll

11:58

they'll come to their senses. They'll come to their

12:00

senses. And they realized, no, we don't want

12:02

to do this to the show. The show does

12:04

not deserve this, America does not deserve this. But

12:07

as it turned out, somehow they edited

12:09

thirteen and a half minutes out of it.

12:11

That that's how long it was, and

12:14

they.

12:14

Need to actually fit together in a way

12:16

that made sense and was watchable.

12:19

And I was surprised.

12:22

And it's a testament to the editors and

12:24

to the talent of the gentleman I mentioned, and Jerry's

12:27

vision steering the show and as

12:29

always and uh oh, man,

12:31

if you remember shooting that scene the festive

12:34

dinners.

12:34

Around the table, what I remember vividly.

12:36

I think there's probably I think

12:38

this is available online on bloopers,

12:41

but I can't remember the reason

12:43

why. But Julia looked pretty draggled

12:45

by the time she got to the table, I think like her

12:48

hair was all matted down.

12:49

And it was to parallel

12:52

the girl who looked

12:54

good in One Life exactly.

12:56

And there was this kind of unsavory

12:59

looking guy who was hitting

13:01

on her at the table and

13:04

he said something about you look great,

13:07

and in total Julia Elaine

13:09

fashion, she goes, oh, thanks,

13:14

was like hell as much as Julia could ever

13:16

look like el and she

13:18

couldn't get through it.

13:19

She could.

13:20

The guy's face was so great. He was one of those

13:22

great characters that they always found, and

13:24

he did it perfectly. He did it like right on

13:26

the edge of you know, you

13:28

know, child rapist, and

13:31

it was she just and

13:33

that, and we did take after take and then then

13:36

you.

13:36

Know, God rest him.

13:38

Jerry Stiller would get up and start going,

13:41

I got a lot of problems with your people, and

13:43

that we were That was it, we were done.

13:45

I remember a couple of things.

13:46

First of all, the guy you're talking about, he

13:48

he was a He did a table

13:51

access show in New York City, I think out of Brooklyn

13:53

in which he reviewed pornography. He was

13:55

an actual like like he

13:58

was exactly who you think he would be, and he played that perfectly.

14:00

I remember another thing, which.

14:01

Was at the very beginning, I remember I

14:03

remember all of you breaking every

14:06

absolutely yeah, but at the very beginning, I

14:08

think Julius said somebody to Jerry, like we

14:10

get this in one take, I'll give you.

14:11

A million dollars something like that. And

14:14

needless to say, it took eight

14:16

hours.

14:17

She personally made sure that we weren't going to get in.

14:19

I think I think it took eight hours

14:23

to get the.

14:23

Table, and I think that the guy

14:25

that we're talking about the.

14:26

Kind of you know, Bline

14:30

Collin's sleezy friends.

14:34

I think the guy who played his cohort on the

14:37

show turned out to be Tracy Let's

14:40

esteemed actor author

14:42

and putt surprise.

14:45

So let me ask a big question to clear something up

14:47

that's been out there forever. So when

14:50

people celebrate festivals, they

14:52

try and emulate the meal, but nobody

14:55

can actually figure out that there are no clear

14:57

shot. People tried to freeze, frame it and whatever. So

15:00

I've read about this portrayal. They're trying to figure it out.

15:02

So what they do is they get Bopka from one episode,

15:04

they get bagels from their marbles. But

15:07

there are reports that there was let Us with what

15:09

looked to be meal out on it on

15:12

the table. What was do you do you? Does

15:14

anybody know what the meal was? In the sign

15:16

phone.

15:16

Episode on the show, I'm pretty

15:18

sure it was meat loaf.

15:19

Yeah, cleared it up for evereople.

15:22

There was a there was a disagreeable, suspect

15:24

looking meat loaf that was carved up before the scene

15:26

and put on everyone's plate.

15:27

There you go, I think, yeah, because

15:29

nobody can identify for sure when they celebrate

15:31

festivals at home, so they emulate

15:34

by by by grabbing from different episodes.

15:36

Like I said, the Bopka, et cetera for the meal, but

15:38

you just cleaned it up now people who are festivates

15:40

a meat loaf on lettuce, Oh my god.

15:43

I mean the real thing was it was whatever the

15:45

whatever we were having for dinner. It was usually you know, it was

15:47

a holiday, so my mom made like a chicken or

15:49

something.

15:50

But what was the fallout

15:52

from the episode within your family?

15:56

My mom was real afraid to tell me.

15:58

Dad, uh, Mark

16:00

thought it was hilarious because he was not going to get hit

16:02

by any of the bullback.

16:03

It was all falled on me. My

16:07

other brother didn't want any part of it.

16:09

Uh.

16:09

And then it came out and I had to tell my dad. At

16:11

first he didn't understand, and then he got

16:14

real mad like like

16:16

like yeah, like very briefly

16:18

like and he by that point he was slowing down. There wasn't so

16:20

much of the throwing stuff mad level left,

16:22

but he was very exercised. But

16:26

then he saw it and

16:28

he kind of liked it. And then people, you

16:30

know, the reviews started coming. He started, and

16:32

then he immediately became insufferably

16:35

smug and thought that that episode retroactively

16:38

justified every poor choice he'd never made

16:40

in his entire life.

16:42

He was, Oh, he was

16:44

thrilled. He was over the moon. He was over the

16:46

moon.

16:47

So you would tell people, I'm

16:49

the us. Shut him up.

16:52

Ben and Jerry's made uh like

16:54

a flavor. It was like burnt shirt

16:57

caramel and Christmas

17:00

Eve type flavors. And they

17:03

sent a poster. My dad framed it and insisted

17:05

on like hanging on the wall the kitchen

17:08

in a place where it really didn't fit. So

17:10

he was he was for the

17:12

last do the

17:14

last decade and a half of his life.

17:16

For more. Could not have been prouder, could

17:18

not have been pro.

17:19

Speaking of the ice cream, so

17:22

I just you know, I went online and I

17:24

went to just Amazon and typed

17:26

in Festivus related

17:28

things, and here's what came up. Lots

17:31

of poles. You know, by a Festivus pole, there's

17:33

a board game. There were fireplace stockings,

17:36

sweaters, mugs, treo ornaments,

17:38

playing cards, t shirts, refrigerator

17:40

magnets, and the ice cream flavor.

17:43

Do you ever see anything

17:46

from any.

17:47

Of that.

17:51

No,

17:52

no, I

17:55

mean no, no, I mean look, as

17:59

far as I know the context of the show, the

18:02

copyright to that holiday is owned by Castle Rock

18:04

Communications and they're welcome to it. And as of right

18:06

now, it's an open source Holidays. It's entered

18:08

into the culture, which I'm I have mixed

18:10

emotions about, obviously. But if Satanists

18:13

want to protest against fascism

18:15

in Florida by putting up a display with beer

18:18

cans and putting the word Festivus on it in the Florida

18:20

State House, which happened, Hey

18:23

good.

18:23

For you, just go for it was

18:25

a phrase Festivus for the rest of us. That was

18:27

a phrase that the family did use, right, and your daddy came up.

18:30

With I have these tapes and they're actually in that

18:32

filing cabinet and they were remastered to CDs

18:35

a long time ago, and their tapes from every year,

18:37

and in nineteen seventy six, that

18:41

year, my dad, in the tape recording

18:43

said this is a festist for the rest of us. What he meant by

18:45

that was for the living as opposed to

18:47

the dead, because that year my grandmother,

18:50

Jeanette Marie O'Connor O'Keeffe had had

18:52

a stroke in a supermarket in Jersey

18:54

City and died.

18:57

We don't pass away in my family, We died, and

19:01

so that was what it meant. And I remember

19:03

that, and I sort of spat it out without remembering the context.

19:05

Then by the time it's in the script and it's actually working

19:07

and we're past the table, I'm like, oh, yeah, actually about

19:10

my dead Grandpa's not around.

19:13

I always thought it was because.

19:16

I actually thought it was true of

19:18

your family as well, But I always thought it was

19:20

Frankestanza's. You

19:23

know, he was an atheist, you know, he

19:25

didn't want to play into any of the religiosity.

19:28

So it was a festival for the rest

19:30

of us, you know who don't.

19:32

Well, the original version was it was

19:34

those of us who were alive as opposed to dead.

19:36

Did your did the family either

19:40

accept or pervert any other Holly?

19:42

Was Thanksgiving?

19:43

Okay? Was Halloween?

19:45

Halloween?

19:45

Okay?

19:46

Was?

19:47

I mean?

19:47

Thanksgiving was

19:50

weird, but it was recognizably Thanksgiving.

19:52

We celebrated Christmas in a cultural way,

19:54

no religiosity at all. So

19:57

the answer is no, he didn't pervert any other

19:59

holidays. But fest just wasn't

20:01

the only made up holiday he had.

20:03

There were weirder ones.

20:05

Oh pray, tell.

20:17

Fest just wasn't the only made up

20:20

holiday he had. There were weirder ones.

20:22

Oh right, tell, well, this is

20:25

not this to start off.

20:26

You know, the A very merry on birthday

20:29

to you from uh Lewis Carroll.

20:31

I am familiar with it, very

20:34

peripherally, yes.

20:35

From Alice in Wonderland.

20:36

Whenever my dad did something so drunkenly,

20:40

violently unacceptable or

20:42

offensive or horrifying or just

20:45

generally embarrassing that my mom was about

20:47

to leave him, then whichever

20:49

child was offended against would get an extra birthday.

20:52

And that was called an unbirthday, and

20:54

it was sort of a.

20:55

Little birthday, but it was still It was called an un birthday.

20:57

That was weird.

20:59

It was and called the Polish Hour.

21:02

And I hard to explain

21:05

what the Polish hour was because he

21:07

said it's time for the Polish Hour. What this meant

21:09

was lights were again extinguished. The guy was really

21:11

into candles. I don't know if he didn't have electricity growing up

21:13

or something. But then he made

21:15

my mother play Chopin's Polonaise

21:18

on the piano, which had not been

21:20

tuned in twenty years, and so it sounded really peculiar,

21:23

kind of like this theme to Halloween when she tried to play it,

21:26

and then he would deliver an off the cuff

21:28

impromptu monologue looking

21:30

back on this moment from the perspective

21:33

of the future, like thirty years from now,

21:35

remembering in the present what was happening,

21:38

but refer to the town we lived

21:40

in as the swamp, and

21:43

it was just him

21:46

pounding huge amounts

21:48

of alcoholic beverages while

21:50

reminiscing about things that either

21:52

hadn't happened yet or were happening now as if they

21:54

had happened in the distant past. There was definitely a whiff

21:57

of Beckett of a crap glass

21:59

tape to this too. But he just sat in this ancient

22:01

stained yellow chair chanting

22:03

this nonsense while my mom

22:05

was forced to play this piece

22:08

of piano music on an untuned piano.

22:10

Even said you would come home and

22:13

never know what was gonna happen on any given

22:15

day.

22:17

Pretty much, I mean we we Also there were

22:19

classes after class, I mean we

22:23

received additional schooling in One

22:26

of them was quantum theory, but this was the late nineteen

22:28

seventies, so they only discovered a few quarks. We didn't

22:30

have a full quark component compliment. Yet

22:33

there was a whole room of the house filled Florida ceiling

22:35

with books about the Kennedy assassination.

22:37

So this was what I came home, Yes, on a

22:39

daily basis.

22:40

But damn, what's amazing is to

22:42

Harvard.

22:43

You know it's amazing. You know it's amazing.

22:44

This is something Jerry said after recounting one of these

22:46

anecdotes. I think it was explaining festivals. It was

22:48

a long beat, and then I believe it with Jerry said,

22:51

why are you alive?

22:53

Yeah, but Dan, I was gonna go the

22:55

other way. The weird thing is, and I know there's alcoholism

22:58

by personally bipolar disorder, but

23:01

in a weird way, because you're so articulate,

23:04

you know history, you're you're you're

23:07

aware a limit, a grasp of want them

23:09

to.

23:10

That's tough affair.

23:11

You're exposed to so much. Even though it was in a bizarre

23:13

way. Here you went here, you went to Harvard, you

23:15

ended up writing on major shows.

23:17

So in a weird way, your father

23:20

exposed you to a lot of stuff in a bizarre

23:22

way that you were presented, but you turned out taking

23:25

all of that in some way here, he

23:28

said condescendingly, which means talking about

23:30

Dan.

23:31

No, it's there's definitely an

23:33

aspect of that. Absolutely sure.

23:34

I mean, I guess to ping

23:37

pong off of what Peter is saying.

23:38

And I hadn't thought to even

23:40

get into this because it's kind of a heavy question

23:43

and you don't have to answer it. But I

23:46

can't get a read on whether you feel

23:49

like I mean, it's

23:51

easy for me to say I loved my dad and I

23:53

and I miss him and he was a big

23:55

part.

23:55

Of my life. Did you have.

23:59

A relationship that you valued with your

24:01

father or was it just too hard to define

24:04

it?

24:05

I mean it's complicated, but yeah, absolutely I love my father.

24:08

He was that was It would have been easy

24:11

if he had been monstrous

24:13

and unlovable, but he was incredibly charismatic

24:15

and brilliant, and it was talking

24:18

his way into or out of anything.

24:19

So yeah, actually, in the last like

24:22

particularly the last ten years of his life.

24:24

Actually, you know, arguably since the Festest episode

24:26

came out, we were, you know, as close

24:28

as you can get to someone that damage.

24:30

Yeah, yeah, wow. And the other thing

24:32

that's weird is estensibly your bizarre

24:35

holiday has been twenty

24:37

seven years later, it still persists

24:41

and it has become like for families that do

24:43

it, it has become part of their culture. On our

24:45

hip, we're doing a Festivus thing, it is culture

24:49

celebratory.

24:50

I mean, no one that I know that that

24:52

you know, fools around with Festivus

24:54

is doing it as anything other

24:56

than a joy,

24:59

fun, unique, something

25:01

that they looked forward to.

25:04

And it identifies that family as hey,

25:06

we're fun, we're quirking, we're different.

25:08

Hah.

25:09

And they've taken the feats of strength and they

25:11

do I read, they do weightlifting, they do

25:13

all kinds of racing. They've taken

25:15

it, morphed it into their family's own

25:18

and it's pure joy for people.

25:20

It's the watched videos of it, and you're

25:22

absolutely right, it's it's joyful. And

25:24

so in retrospect, not only

25:26

were Jerry and Dave

25:29

and Jeff and Alec right, they they

25:31

sort of retro they sort of

25:33

redeemed that unpleasant

25:36

morasses of memory because now

25:39

this thing that would have been something that you know, I tried

25:41

to you know work

25:43

through therapy, is something that now you

25:45

know, literally dozens of people around the country

25:48

are having a good time with.

25:52

It.

25:53

Yeah, So so they certainly.

25:55

A lot of the poison has been taken out of it by it

25:58

being now something that it's just just so strange

26:00

that like a super like possibly

26:03

one of the weirdest parts of a very strange childhood.

26:06

Uh is now.

26:07

Yeah, it's it's a word. It's the word

26:09

that my dad made up is now out there.

26:12

That's a wonderful thing. David. You have some

26:14

insight because people are so fascinated still with

26:16

scient fill Notts on Netflix and it's just the next

26:18

generation watches.

26:19

Well, actually, I would be I would be remiss if I didn't

26:21

say was it was just the honor of my life.

26:23

It was every day there was a joy. It was hard work.

26:25

It was unbelievably hard work, as you remember, particularly

26:28

that season when I did not have the benefit of working

26:30

with with mister David. But uh,

26:34

yeah, it was such a pleasure to work with you on that.

26:36

Jason, thank you brother. I right

26:38

back at you, and I it was it

26:40

was. It was just one of those But.

26:42

I was going to ask me, what was the writers What did

26:44

it feel like. I've been in writers rooms and it gets

26:46

very competitive. People don't want to laugh at your joke.

26:49

Everybody's trying to please the showrunner to figure

26:51

out what's in there. Had I've been in those kind of writers rooms,

26:53

and I've been in kind of writers rooms where it's just a

26:55

lot of fun, where people are just making everybody laugh

26:57

and it's just a collective joy

26:59

to do. What was it. What was your experience

27:01

in the writer's room? It was a very competitive or.

27:05

It was, Yeah, but everyone

27:07

took it very seriously. This is the

27:09

greatest TV comedy

27:11

of all time, and we

27:13

are tasked with doing

27:16

this without one of the creators, and

27:19

we better get

27:22

it right because it's it's a It would be a crime

27:24

and a disgrace if we didn't.

27:26

So yeah, that people, it was unbelievably

27:28

fun. It was uh uh.

27:32

Making Jerry Seinfeld laugh in the room

27:34

is uh you know, like particularly one time

27:36

when he almost liquid came out of notice,

27:38

like the birth of my son was nice.

27:40

That was fun. I enjoyed it. But I

27:42

got to say, seeing Jerry laugh like that, that

27:44

was the moment. It

27:47

was a joy. It was another joy.

27:48

Now were there times that people possibly

27:50

almost came to blows, Yes, because they disagreed

27:52

about the the These

27:54

were very very talented. I mean, you

27:57

had Jennifer Crittenden, who I've

27:59

worked for since then, who was a genius,

28:01

and Alec and Jeff and Dave who

28:03

have together created and run some of the greatest

28:05

comedies in the last fifty twenty years.

28:08

And Spike Ferston.

28:09

I mean, these were all people at the absolute

28:11

top of their game, and

28:13

everyone cared very

28:16

much about getting it right and not just getting

28:18

it right and making it as good as it could possibly

28:20

be. So most of

28:22

the time people were laughing so

28:25

hard that your voice was horsed by the end of the day. But

28:28

yeah, sometimes there were very loud disagreements

28:31

and Jerry would would you know,

28:33

have to tamp it down?

28:35

And did an episode start with an idea, with an

28:37

overall idea or because it was a

28:39

sitcom, we had to have four intersecting

28:41

stories, which was unique. Did

28:44

you start with with modular Hey, that may

28:46

work better with this on this episode and moving

28:48

stuff around?

28:49

Absolutely, that sometimes did happen, But

28:54

most of the time you just went into a

28:56

room with Jerry and

28:59

Jeff and Alick and Dave and you ran a whole bunch

29:01

of ideas. Ideas for a capsule

29:03

story that could be a George story. I got

29:05

a free lance my first episode was season eight

29:07

on the Pothole, which

29:10

was Jerry not to his girlfriend's

29:12

toothbrush and the toilet and then can't tell her and she's

29:14

already brushed her teeth, which actually happened to my

29:17

now wife and you when we lived in New York on the Upper

29:19

West Side, and I had to tell her for literally years

29:21

and years, I just thought of that that was what That

29:24

wasn't a real.

29:24

Thing, that was like a marvel.

29:26

And then later once once she

29:28

was already pregnant, she's nowhere for her to go,

29:30

I said, yeah, you know that really happened. I threw

29:33

your tooth, I threw the toothbrush away,

29:35

and I subbed it out when it was too late.

29:37

Yeah, you brush your teeth and the toilet water.

29:39

So you'd throw stories out of them like that and

29:42

they'd approve. And once you go out of Jerry, George

29:44

and Elaine and A. Cramer proved, then you were set off to outline

29:47

it. And it was a very intricate

29:49

structure of there were big rooms

29:51

for punch up because all the writers, and then there were

29:53

very small rooms, which is just one person trying

29:55

to put together that episode. They were going to write

29:57

and getting stories approved by the the

30:00

top people, and then there were rewrite rooms

30:02

for somewhere in the middle, and then there were post table

30:05

punch up sessions, which was again everyone.

30:08

So it was incredibly well structured,

30:10

and it had to be because you know, I remember at the beginning of production,

30:12

Schaeffer said, Okay, uh, nobody's

30:15

nobody make any plans for the weekend. And someone said

30:17

what weekend? He said, all weekends. It was

30:19

a little and he was damn

30:21

he was correct, because right, yes,

30:25

and and that's because

30:27

the Jeff and Allen were, and Dave

30:29

were remarkably talented show runners have continued

30:31

to be, but the tone was set by Jerry.

30:34

Because this his work

30:36

ethic continues to blow

30:38

me away to this day. I remember very specifically,

30:41

we had a nine am rewrite

30:44

on a Sunday and I got there

30:46

a little early by accident, and he

30:48

was there at eight forty five pacing because he wanted

30:50

to get the work done. And brilliant, obviously

30:53

brilliant, funny. You can't say enough about

30:55

that. But he also doesn't get credit for being

30:57

John Starks, for just working harder

30:59

than any comic in.

31:00

The history of comics.

31:02

Yeah, it had to be in the show and had at that then

31:05

learn and do and and deliver.

31:06

It is said, great to see you.

31:09

I wish you. Uh this is our holiday show,

31:11

so happy holidays to.

31:12

You and your family.

31:14

And uh and I

31:16

am. I am truly delighted to see

31:19

you. And it makes me feel like we should just sit sometime

31:21

and catch up. But I feel that way about our whole group.

31:23

But I love that anytime

31:25

you just tell me where, I'll even go to the valley.

31:28

I love that, WHOA said,

31:31

even though it's the assumption that

31:33

I was.

31:35

And by the way, what's going to happen? You call and said, let's

31:37

meet it in the valley? Who I was? I just say I was just

31:39

saying that. I was just saying that on the podcasting

31:42

Dan, Thank you friends.

31:54

So can you imagine that that's a family that I

31:57

thought my family had some quirks.

31:59

I got nothing. You know, I was

32:01

the father of those best family compared to

32:03

that I was. I have all the stuff that I propeda

32:05

how we go to different subjects. You all

32:07

the stuff about bizarre things families do during

32:09

the holidays. Yeah, no, guess what that?

32:13

Wow? You know all

32:15

holidays are bizarre?

32:16

Do you like, I just did a little bit of research

32:19

about some of the things that we equate with most of our

32:21

holidays, and it's all like

32:23

like fruitcakes. Fruitcakes is a big Christmas

32:25

thing, you know, fruitcake, the first fruitcakes. Apparently

32:28

they found those a weapon and know that, well,

32:30

you would think they found them buried with

32:32

the with the pharaohs.

32:33

They were a thing to take to the afterlife.

32:38

I think I had one in nineteen eighty two that came from

32:40

that that batch Holly. You know

32:42

Holly that they hang in the tree

32:44

at Christmas? Do you know what it is?

32:47

There to symbolize Christ suffering. The

32:49

red berries are the blood of Christ when he leaves

32:51

at the crown front.

32:52

Did you know that? Yeah? You did know that,

32:54

all right.

32:54

Mistletoe do you know what that what that

32:57

comes from?

32:57

Mistletoe? Mistletoe

32:59

was an ant for no idea.

33:01

Mistletow is from a from a German mish

33:05

would meet dung basically pooh

33:08

and not to but tang

33:11

means branch, so the literal

33:14

when when you kiss somebody on the stuff under

33:16

the ship.

33:17

Yeah. Wow.

33:20

Halloween, people believe the dead souls

33:22

would return on all hallows, even seek

33:25

revenge on their enemies, so people would

33:27

disguise themselves so that

33:29

the souls could not spot them and take their

33:31

revenge. That's how they're dressing up and the masks,

33:33

and I mean it's all the Chicago

33:36

River gets dyed every single right

33:39

since nineteen sixty right, I

33:41

mean, And you know.

33:42

What that does? Give you a sense of your

33:44

cities and families, a sense of their identity.

33:46

And it is weird that Danny Sick holiday

33:49

ends up as big as as been saying,

33:51

Google, what do you got?

33:53

Well, that is some strange

33:55

holiday stuff.

33:56

But I thought that we might want to go back

33:59

a little bit older to some of the absolute

34:01

first holidays in history.

34:03

Oh you mean, like, oops, I made a fire day kind

34:05

of thing.

34:08

Here's when a Roman holiday which

34:10

you probably have never heard of.

34:12

It's called Saturnalia.

34:14

Okay, Okay,

34:18

it's it was an ancient pagan

34:20

holiday honored by the Romans

34:23

and the god Saturn. Okay, so that's

34:25

the whole thing, sure, which is

34:27

Saturn is the god of sowing and seeding.

34:30

So it was the solstice type of thing. But

34:32

it took place somewhere between December

34:34

seventeenth and twenty fourth, and

34:36

there are a lot of similarities.

34:38

Between this and Christmas.

34:41

The festivities consisted of drinking,

34:43

eating, lavishly, giving presents.

34:47

Here's where it gets fun.

34:48

Wealthy Romans paid for

34:50

the destitute to swap

34:53

clothes with them and like like do a

34:55

like like a streaky Friday

34:57

type of thing with like slaves in the

35:00

destitutes. Normally the

35:02

togas were white, they

35:04

would often swap them out for colorful

35:06

ones, a lot of times green

35:09

and red, which of course later became oh

35:11

wow.

35:14

I was just gonna say, we got to wrap it up google him. But

35:16

I will tell you something that's a part of it. We should

35:18

write it the Roman guy swaps and now he's stuck and

35:20

they don't believe that he's really the Roman guy, and he's the cheap

35:22

Guy's got to go to there's your weirdest

35:25

family tradition. What's the weirdest one? We don't

35:27

do really weird. My family was weird every

35:29

day. Yeah, But I think the fact that we

35:31

had when growing up tradition

35:35

with my father, it was equivalent of dan

35:37

except there was a passive aggressive quiet.

35:39

We never had a tree, we never had a Honick bush, we never

35:42

had a Christmas thing. Whatever. Now we do everything.

35:43

We celebrate every I harangued

35:46

my parents along. I really wanted a Christmas

35:48

tree, and they were like, no, we're not doing it with Jewish.

35:51

It's not it's not a Christian thing. It's

35:53

a pagan thing. It's it's just pretty.

35:56

Why can't And they wouldn't go and they wouldn't go, and

35:58

they finally when my

36:01

mother brought in I will never forget.

36:03

It was like a little miniature Bondzie

36:05

tree, stripped bear of any foliage,

36:07

painted white, and then they draped

36:10

things.

36:11

How big? How big about

36:13

you know? A happy

36:16

world?

36:16

Was this sadest looking thing? And I went

36:19

what? And And I have actually said to Dana,

36:22

should we do it? Do we do a tree?

36:24

No?

36:25

And I go, when did you

36:27

become.

36:27

Super jew that you're She's just adamant.

36:30

She doesn't want that. We started with big stuff and

36:32

every year it gots and I didn't. I didn't complain.

36:34

We're not in the next door family where we used to live,

36:36

as the one that you can see from space. What is that

36:38

about those people who put up they

36:41

spend They start in July and they put it up.

36:43

We have two houses in our neighborhood. One does

36:45

Halloween and one does Christmas

36:48

and it's like a Halloween.

36:49

Guy. I know, I spend thirty thousand bucks for you

36:51

know, families. I told your family culture.

36:54

Do you have anything warned that you do family preditioner

36:56

that you hold no producer lay no, no,

36:58

not David.

36:59

Nothing celebrate anything, Laurie. Nothing

37:03

congratulate.

37:05

When I was a kid, we would, actually because

37:08

my my father was Jewish and and my mom

37:10

was Christian or whatever.

37:12

So we did Christmas and Hanukah.

37:14

Sure, and my dad was in charge of Hanukah, and of

37:16

course he was in charge of the gifts and whatnot.

37:18

Each night my brother got a little

37:20

American tank and

37:23

I got a Nazi tank.

37:25

No, that's and we're out.

37:27

Yeah, thank you very much, gentlemen, whatever

37:29

your holiday believes or traditions may

37:31

be, Happy holidays to you from all of us here.

37:33

And really really for

37:35

following along.

37:36

We've been on the air almost a year at the point that this will

37:38

air, and and and happy.

37:44

Lovely New Year and God bless

37:46

yea everybody. Here's

37:49

announcer. No, we'll see it.

37:54

Now, really.

37:57

Really no,

37:59

really, this is another episode of really no

38:01

really comes to a close. I know you're wondering,

38:04

is there such a thing as a traditional

38:06

Christmas witch. I can

38:08

bet you know where this is going, but before I confirm

38:11

or deny, let's thank our guests, Dana

38:13

Peefe. You can follow Dan on x

38:15

at djok underscore

38:18

Er, and you can find us online at

38:20

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38:22

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38:24

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38:26

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38:31

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38:33

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38:36

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38:38

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38:40

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38:43

We release new episodes Really No Really

38:45

every Tuesday, so make sure to follow us

38:47

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

38:49

or wherever you get your podcasts and

38:52

now. Is there such a thing as a Christmas

38:55

Witch? There is in Italy, where she's

38:57

the Italian version of Santa Claus, call

38:59

the La Befana. The ancient story

39:02

goes that the Magi stopped at her house

39:04

to ask directions on their way to visit the

39:06

Baby Jesus. They invited her to

39:08

join them on the journey, but she said she had too

39:10

much housework. After they left, she changed

39:12

her mind and tried to follow them, but couldn't

39:15

catch up. So now she flies around

39:17

seeking them out each Christmas. Much

39:19

like Santa, she brings toys and goodies to children.

39:22

Instead of leaving her milk and cookies the way

39:24

people do for Santa, Italians leave

39:26

out plates of sausage, broccoli, and

39:28

a glass of wine for her.

39:30

And with that, I'm up to Italy. Happy

39:32

holidays everyone, from all of us to all

39:35

of you. Really.

39:41

No Really is a production of iHeartRadio

39:43

and Blase Entertainment