0:00

Hi there, this is rebel leader

0:00

with a heart. And today I'm

0:04

having a conversation with Bart

0:04

Lambrechts, the HR director of

0:08

car glass. And we talk about

0:08

employee engagement, because

0:14

employee engagement has a huge

0:14

impact on your profits. Of

0:18

course, it's nice to have

0:18

engaged employees because when

0:22

you're engaged, you're also

0:22

happier and more performance.

0:25

But it also has a direct impact

0:25

on your performance and your

0:30

profits. But when we look at

0:30

Gallup statistics, engagement is

0:36

only 13% in Europe, and it's not

0:36

better in the US. And when we

0:43

look at card last day, managed

0:43

to increase their employee

0:47

engagement to 93% 93% of the

0:47

workers of cargas are engaged.

0:55

And this has a huge impact on

0:55

motivation on the revenues,

1:00

customer satisfaction, but also

1:00

on attracting talent, and

1:04

specifically young talent that

1:04

really are looking for more

1:09

value, more profits and a nice

1:09

company to work with. Now, if

1:14

you're ready to unlock the

1:14

secrets of having 93%

1:18

engagement, be sure to listen to

1:18

this episode. Hello, bar. It's

1:24

nice to meet you. Hi, nice to meet you.

1:28

So maybe you can tell us a

1:28

little bit of who you are. Yeah,

1:32

the pleasure come back lomenick

1:32

time people director for

1:36

Darkglass, Belgium and

1:36

Luxembourg. Nice.

1:40

And you've been working there

1:40

for 18 or 19 years. Yeah,

1:44

yeah. Almost 90. Yes. Yeah.

1:47

Yeah, that's great. I still love it.

1:50

That's great. And that's very

1:50

rare in our part of the world to

1:55

work for this long, poor

1:55

company. So it probably says a

1:59

lot about the company. Yeah, we

1:59

met a couple of weeks ago. And I

2:05

was really charmed by some of

2:05

the things you said. And I felt

2:09

it would be a great idea to

2:09

share those on the podcast to

2:13

inspire other leaders. And then

2:13

in particular, I wanted to talk

2:19

about engagement, employee

2:19

engagement, because when we look

2:25

at engagement numbers in Europe,

2:25

and in the US as well, but in

2:30

Europe, they are very poor. So

2:30

only 13% of employees in Europe

2:38

seems to be engaged. So a lot of

2:38

people are even this engaged,

2:44

not simply not engaged. But this

2:44

engaged. But you managed to have

2:49

if I remember correctly, 93% of

2:49

engaged. That's correct. Yeah.

2:56

And so I was wondering, what is

2:56

your recipe?

2:59

That's a very interesting

2:59

question. And the question is,

3:04

is there one recipe? Or are

3:04

there a lot of ingredients in

3:08

it? And I think it's, it's the

3:08

second part, but But indeed, if

3:13

you look at those figures, it's

3:13

it's really sad to see it, we

3:18

only have one life. And then

3:18

spending most of your life in a

3:24

job you don't like and you're

3:24

not engaged in. It's a pity. And

3:30

that's something we we really

3:30

try to work on to as a company

3:36

to work on our purpose on Why do

3:36

we exist as a as a company, and

3:43

there we yeah, we don't get that

3:43

energy from replacing wind

3:49

screens, but we really get

3:49

energy from making a difference

3:54

with real care to the towards

3:54

our customers, but also towards

4:00

our people, the environment, and

4:00

also our shareholders. And

4:03

that's, for me, the really the

4:03

big screen in which we work and

4:12

in which we also want to involve

4:12

our people to really think

4:16

about, okay, what is my purpose

4:16

in life? And how can my work at

4:21

cargas fit into this and how can

4:21

I make a difference with real

4:28

care? And I think that's, that's

4:28

one of the things that that

4:34

makes the most difference to

4:34

really to discuss about it,

4:40

also, and to discuss it openly

4:40

also, and to invite people if

4:45

they have the feeling at a

4:45

certain moment that it doesn't

4:48

work for a certain reason in

4:48

their current job to really get

4:58

behind the stereo. wield, and

4:58

really being responsible of your

5:02

own involvement and of your own

5:02

career, and we get support as a

5:09

company. And we, we do want

5:09

support, because as a company

5:14

also, yeah, if you have somebody

5:14

who is not engaged, sitting on a

5:19

chair, yeah, it's, it's bad for

5:19

the person because he or she

5:24

doesn't feel okay. But it's also

5:24

better for the company. Because,

5:30

yeah, you miss an opportunity to

5:30

put on that same share somebody

5:34

who's who is engaged, and who

5:34

loves to work. Yeah, this is

5:39

fine. And so what you're saying, so

5:40

it's about the purpose of the

5:43

company, but it's about the

5:43

purpose of the individual

5:47

people. And if they, yeah, and

5:47

if they don't feel like they are

5:54

engaged, or they are motivated

5:54

anymore, you even help them in

5:59

their second or in their next

5:59

step, even if it's outside your

6:03

company. Yeah. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Because yeah,

6:04

and you can say, silly guy, you

6:10

help your people getting out of

6:10

the company, and you invest time

6:14

and money in it. But I think

6:14

it's, it's worth while and, and

6:19

we also see that that it can be

6:19

due to circumstances at a

6:24

certain moment, and that there

6:24

are also people who left us for

6:29

another career or another

6:29

opportunity, and who come back.

6:34

That's nice. And what I also

6:34

like is that this is not only

6:38

for the white colour people, but

6:38

also the blue colour people.

6:43

Yeah, I'm wondering how how does

6:43

it work? How do you help them

6:48

define their personal purpose?

6:50

First of all, one of the first

6:50

thing when they come in, we say,

6:55

okay, you, you won't put

6:55

windscreens here, but you will

6:59

help people. So it starts also

6:59

in the recruitment, that we are

7:04

also going to look for attitude

7:04

more than the skills, okay, we

7:09

don't want people to left hands

7:09

if they are right handed, yes.

7:15

So they have to have also a

7:15

feeling or an interest in a car.

7:20

But more important is that they

7:20

have interest in people and in

7:25

helping people and the technical

7:25

parts we learn from scratch. So

7:31

everybody who comes into the

7:31

company, as a fitter, starts

7:36

with a basic training on how to

7:36

fit the VIN screen steps or core

7:41

business, we make it even fun.

7:41

We have a two year old a

7:46

competition for the best fitter

7:46

in Belgium and Luxembourg, who

7:50

can become the best fit around

7:50

the world, which is a play way

7:56

of keeping your people focused

7:56

on continuously improving

8:02

continuously learning. That's nice. And then the

8:04

personal purpose, do you have a

8:07

special workshop for people to

8:07

give?

8:10

Yeah, and there we have a bit of

8:10

delay with with COVID. Because

8:15

we started on the exact level,

8:15

really to have workshops on

8:19

okay, what is my personal

8:19

purpose, also being conscious of

8:24

how am I feeling today, because

8:24

one day is not the other and you

8:30

don't leave your backpack behind

8:30

at the doors of the company. So

8:35

it's also important to be aware

8:35

and to communicate about it. So

8:41

what we do, for instance, on

8:41

exec level is, we start almost

8:46

every meeting with a check in,

8:46

really to be to focus on Okay,

8:51

how are you today? And not just

8:51

how are you and not waiting for

8:56

the answer and but really, how

8:56

are you really doing today and

9:01

to listen and to just talking

9:01

about it creates also an

9:08

involvement of colleagues also

9:08

an awareness of okay, BART has

9:15

already had a bad night has

9:15

already had some problems with

9:21

his children or I don't know

9:21

what, which makes that Yeah, his

9:26

focus is maybe less today. Yeah.

9:26

So that's, that's a thing we

9:32

really want to get down into the

9:32

company. We started already also

9:39

with with a co worker stays so

9:39

every year we organise a co

9:45

worker stays in which every team

9:45

as a whole comes to different

9:53

workshops, which are not

9:53

business related, that are

9:57

really related to Your, your

9:57

person and on your well being.

10:05

So we have had some some

10:05

workshops on, on sleep hygiene

10:12

on different topics really do to

10:12

make people aware of that at all

10:19

has an influence on who you are

10:19

and how you how you are in life.

10:25

Yeah. Wow, great, that's great.

10:25

And that's also what research

10:31

shows. So research shows that

10:31

when people are aware of their

10:37

personal purpose and personal

10:37

values, their engagement

10:43

increases more than if they were

10:43

aware of the purpose and values

10:48

of the organisation. Of course,

10:48

both, is even better. But if you

10:53

only wants to do one, it's

10:53

really the personal one that

10:57

contributes to a higher level of

10:57

engagement. What

11:02

I think it's also important that

11:02

you have your personal purpose,

11:06

but that you also find back your

11:06

purpose in the company's

11:11

purpose. And I think younger,

11:11

people are much more aware of

11:17

this. And also in hiring, you

11:17

see that they are more conscious

11:24

in choosing a company that

11:24

really fits their values and

11:29

their purpose and how the

11:29

company can can support them in

11:33

this, which is for us. Good

11:33

news, I think. Yeah.

11:37

And if you talk on that subject,

11:37

do you think that it's easier

11:42

for you to hire and to retain

11:42

talent because of this DNA that

11:49

you have? Yeah. Yeah, I'm, I'm convinced

11:50

once we have them into our

11:57

office, they are they are in the

11:57

problem that we have today is we

12:02

are well known as brands,

12:02

communication is really strong.

12:07

People are not always aware what

12:07

is. Right. So we still have to

12:13

have some work on communicating

12:13

and on our employer branding, on

12:20

working on this site that once

12:20

they are applying, we'll see

12:25

that yeah, that's the

12:25

willingness is there.

12:28

Yeah. And what we search from

12:28

Gallup also shows is that the

12:34

higher your engagement, the more

12:34

profits you make. So companies

12:39

with high engagement have, on

12:39

average, 23% more profits, than

12:44

companies with low engagement?

12:44

Is this something that you also

12:50

notice? Well, it's also our conviction.

12:51

And if you think about it, it's

12:56

a bit logic, I think people who

12:56

are engaged, they really want to

13:01

do to do the extra mile for the

13:01

company. And they, they see

13:05

their company as part or they

13:05

see themselves as part as the GM

13:10

of the company that they work

13:10

for. So yes. I don't want to do

13:18

the tests to this, engage your

13:18

people and see what is the

13:26

result on our on our on our p&l,

13:26

that, but I'm also convinced

13:33

that it has a big difference and

13:33

also leadership because there

13:38

are also studies said that

13:38

leadership has also a big

13:43

influence, as well also on the

13:43

engagement of people and on the

13:47

climate that is created. So

13:47

that's also one of the crucial

13:53

pillars on which we work. That's

13:53

only leadership. We do regular

14:00

180 degree feedback sessions for

14:00

our leaders, not to evaluate

14:07

them, but really as a tool to

14:07

progress and to get better.

14:13

Because leadership for me is a

14:13

is a verb is it's something you

14:19

have, obviously to work on. It's

14:19

not because you have a good

14:25

climate and a good leadership

14:25

styles today, that you still

14:29

have it tomorrow and it's also

14:29

really personal. If you are new

14:35

in your job. And I say

14:35

concretely what you have to do,

14:40

you will say that I'm coaching

14:40

when you are 14 years in that

14:45

same job, and I do it the same

14:45

way. You will say that I'm very

14:49

directive and you won't be

14:49

motivated. What

14:53

was the shift that made you

14:53

invest in people what happens or

15:01

why? I think it's it has always been

15:02

a belief that, that we can make

15:06

the difference with our people

15:06

and working on the engagement.

15:11

Were we always good at it now.

15:11

Because we, we started to

15:18

measure, we are a company that

15:18

measures a lot. So we believe

15:22

that you have to measure to

15:22

improve. So in the beginning, we

15:27

measured a lot, but we didn't

15:27

communicate about it. And we

15:33

didn't take the right actions,

15:33

which may make it worse, because

15:39

people say, Okay, you asked for

15:39

our opinion, but you don't do

15:42

anything about it. So next time,

15:42

you will see it in your therapy.

15:48

So and we also did, especially

15:48

we took actions on a, on a

15:55

global level on a company level,

15:55

where my belief is now that the

16:01

biggest change you can make is

16:01

on team level, because it's this

16:06

is the the habitats of your

16:06

people. And yeah, those are the

16:13

colleagues that they see every

16:13

day. So now we focus a lot on

16:18

giving feedback on the results

16:18

on a team level. And we really

16:22

ask to discuss the results in a

16:22

team to have an open

16:28

conversation on okay, this is

16:28

this something we recognised as

16:34

a team are the things that are

16:34

good, and that we want really,

16:39

to foster and to keep into our

16:39

team and take actions to the to

16:45

anchor this, those kinds of

16:45

actions. And at the other end,

16:52

the other side, are there

16:52

specific actions that we can

16:56

take to improve the climate

16:56

within our team and the

17:00

engagement within the team? And

17:00

we see and that's, for me, the

17:08

the one one on one length with

17:08

leadership, our leaders, who are

17:13

real leaders of their team, they

17:13

really take this with both

17:19

hands. And and you see the

17:19

evolution also. On this side.

17:25

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's really

17:26

great, because I like that you

17:30

measure things, but what I don't

17:30

like and what a lot of companies

17:34

do, is that they have KPIs, and

17:34

then they put like, bonuses on

17:40

these KPIs, and they do

17:40

everything they can to influence

17:45

those KPIs, but not by changing

17:45

who they are, or how they act,

17:52

but more by trying to influence

17:52

people to high number because

17:59

and so that's not working you it

17:59

starts with another way of being

18:04

and leadership, this is key to

18:04

that.

18:08

Yeah, yeah. And you see the same

18:08

thing on a customer level, with

18:13

with the Net Promoter Score of

18:13

which is, which we also use,

18:19

that we use it as a tool to

18:19

learn and to listen to our

18:22

customers. But on the market, I

18:22

see a lot of companies who use

18:27

it as a name. And yeah, I even

18:27

had a bad experience in a

18:34

company some time ago, but when

18:34

I left, they said, Listen, we

18:39

are going to send a

18:39

questionnaire tomorrow. And it's

18:42

important for us to answer this,

18:42

that you give us a nine or a 10.

18:49

And I say, Okay, if you want I

18:49

can give you a nine on or a 10.

18:54

But my feeling of not being

18:54

satisfied stays. And you as a

19:01

company, you may say we are

19:01

great, we have great customer

19:06

satisfaction, but you're lying

19:06

to yourself. And that's that's

19:11

effectively the same with with

19:11

engagement scores. We're where

19:16

some companies use it as not as

19:16

a tool, but as a KPI. Yeah,

19:23

yeah. And that's a that's a bit

19:23

for,

19:26

I know which company you're

19:26

talking about, because they do

19:29

the same with the KPI of

19:29

customer satisfaction, and the

19:34

number of tickets closed. And

19:34

what happens then is if you call

19:39

them as a customer, they open a

19:39

ticket. If they can't answer

19:44

you, and they have to send it to

19:44

a second line. They close your

19:49

tickets. So I always say please

19:49

don't close my tickets because

19:53

then you don't get help, but

19:53

it's simply because they have.

19:57

They want to show great KPI I

19:57

have the customer service DNA,

20:03

not at all. For them. It's a check in

20:04

the box. Yeah.

20:08

And so imagine now that you

20:08

would start in another company

20:12

where engagement is really low,

20:12

and profits also, what would you

20:19

do? Where would you start? Well,

20:22

one of the first things I did

20:22

when I came into car glass was I

20:29

stopped with the yearly

20:29

evaluations of people. And we

20:35

started really a process as well

20:35

on a team level as on an

20:41

individual level process of

20:41

improvement and development. And

20:45

we really call it progress

20:45

together, because it's, it's

20:50

for, for me, it's a progress

20:50

programme. It's not an

20:53

evaluation programme, because we

20:53

do a lot of assessments at the

20:57

moment that our people come in.

20:57

So we know that our people are

21:02

good people, and they are

21:02

skilled, and that they have the

21:05

right attitude. So why should we

21:05

evaluate it? Year after year

21:11

after year? Boring people hate yearly. Yeah,

21:16

yeah. And, and also there is I

21:16

think it's a US study that I

21:21

don't have the figure by heart,

21:21

but I think it was 60, or 70% of

21:26

your people believe that they

21:26

belong to your top 10 performers

21:31

of your company. Yeah, good luck

21:31

in your evaluation.

21:38

So I did the same as a CEO, I

21:38

stopped the yearly evaluations

21:43

for the same reason, because

21:43

everyone was waiting for the

21:46

score. And it wasn't the

21:46

discussion about what went well.

21:51

And the objectives, they changed

21:51

way too much to only evaluate

21:56

them once or twice in years. So

21:56

yeah. So you would start with

22:01

that? And then yeah, yeah, as well on individual

22:04

level as on a team level, to

22:09

really create a feedback culture

22:09

within your company. Because I

22:16

think that's also an important

22:16

one, really, to, yeah, to learn,

22:24

to look at your figures, and the

22:24

example we gave on engagement,

22:31

there is no manager who likes to

22:31

have a bad engagement score in

22:35

his team or her team, and

22:35

especially if your boss is

22:38

looking at it and say, Hey, guy,

22:38

your engagement isn't good. So

22:46

for me, the focus is really on

22:46

learning and on saying, okay,

22:50

yeah, we see, or we get the

22:50

signal that there is something

22:55

wrong, let's go into it, and

22:55

look how we can together,

23:02

improve it. And that's also for

23:02

me an important one, to go

23:08

really, within the organisation

23:08

as low as you can really to

23:15

involve people in thinking and

23:15

thinking about progress thinking

23:21

about new IDs. And that was,

23:21

yeah, one of the first things

23:27

that when we introduced it, we

23:27

had big discussions with,

23:32

especially our branch managers,

23:32

who were convinced that Yeah,

23:36

but a fitter isn't interested in

23:36

being involved and being asked

23:42

for his or her opinion. And then

23:42

my my answer was, was always the

23:49

same asset. Yeah. How does it

23:49

come down? Then when he gets

23:53

gets home? He is president of

23:53

the Football Association of his

24:00

children, or is organising a

24:00

party for for 30 or 40 People at

24:08

home? How can he do it at home

24:08

and being interested to take

24:13

responsibility there and not

24:13

wanting to take it in our

24:17

company, then we as a company

24:17

have a problem? And? Yeah, I

24:23

think that we've proven that,

24:23

that people if you involve them,

24:28

they want to be involved. And

24:28

well, 98% of your people want to

24:36

be involved. And that's, for me,

24:36

also a crucial one. Also, when

24:40

you're putting rules in place in

24:40

your company, are you putting in

24:45

place and that's also something

24:45

I see with a lot of companies,

24:48

are you putting rules in place

24:48

that is not engaged in not

24:57

wanting to contributory of Do

24:57

your company. And this engaging

25:03

the 98% that really wants to

25:03

make the difference together

25:08

with you. And I think that there

25:08

is, yeah, still quite some work

25:15

in a lot of companies. And

25:15

that's also for me with COVID.

25:20

No and homeworking, where you

25:20

also see that there is a demand

25:26

from people to work more from

25:26

home. That if you go into depth

25:33

with in discussions with

25:33

companies that that completely

25:38

turn that around again and say,

25:38

no, no, they have to be here

25:42

five days a week. If you go and

25:42

discuss with them, then most of

25:49

the time, it's about control.

25:49

It's about trust. Say, Okay,

25:55

while you're talking, talking

25:55

now with me, they are sitting at

25:59

their desk, maybe they are

25:59

buying shoes in Zalando. And you

26:04

don't know. So? Yeah.

26:09

So what I also like, what I hear

26:09

now is that it's a lot about a

26:14

way of being more than, yes, you

26:14

do great things. But it starts

26:21

from a level of being it starts

26:21

from a level where you believe

26:24

in people and believe they can

26:24

grow and believe it's possible.

26:30

And, and that that's a mindset

26:30

also, that's,

26:34

yeah, yeah, this is, for

26:34

instance, what we also do, and I

26:40

think that also helps in the

26:40

awareness, and in the personal

26:45

purpose, we work a lot for the

26:45

community. But we, as a company,

26:51

we have taken the choice, not

26:51

just taking a part of our

26:56

revenues and giving it to good

26:56

causes, but really to involve

27:01

our people into it, and really

27:01

choosing projects that are at

27:08

the heart of our people and in

27:08

which they are involved. And

27:14

that's Yeah, and you will see

27:14

that it also makes people

27:19

happier to do something for the

27:19

community. And that's also a way

27:25

of being Yeah, yeah. So really nice, really

27:26

inspiring. I hope that a lot of

27:32

leaders will listen to this and

27:32

be inspired to do the same.

27:38

I've, I've written some points.

27:38

So first of all, you recruit

27:43

based on attitudes and not

27:43

skill, then you teach the skills

27:49

and make it fun. And that's also

27:49

so important. I often say it's

27:53

not about hard work. And I think

27:53

it's Adam Grant who said it,

27:57

it's about deliberately

27:57

deliberate plays so that you

28:02

build those skills and become

28:02

really an expert. You really

28:07

work on leadership with starting

28:07

meetings with a check in with

28:13

the 180 feedback and giving the

28:13

responsibility of that

28:18

engagement to the leader and his

28:18

team and not at the company

28:23

level. Because of course, yeah,

28:23

every team might have different

28:27

needs. You measure KPIs, but you

28:27

use them as a tool, not as an

28:33

aim, like a lot of companies,

28:33

unfortunately, do. You stopped

28:38

yearly evaluations, which I

28:38

really love. So that you go to

28:43

the progress together and the

28:43

feedback culture, and you

28:48

involve people and do community

28:48

work. And of course, purpose,

28:53

company purpose and individual

28:53

purpose is really important. So

28:58

you really put the people first,

28:58

and then profits follows. Find

29:04

out our customers, thanks to our

29:04

customers.

29:07

Yes, and I am a customer and I

29:07

really love it because there is

29:12

like this personal touch where

29:12

your car is cleaned completely.

29:18

You have this little note if

29:18

there is any issue, you can come

29:21

back whenever you want. And you

29:21

can really feel like the

29:24

personal touch and you can work

29:24

while you wait. So yeah, really

29:30

congratulations and thank you

29:30

for sharing.

29:34

You're welcome. It was a

29:34

pleasure.

29:38

Yeah, you finished another

29:38

episode of rebel leader with a

29:42

heart if you want more go to

29:42

rebel leader with a heart.com

29:46

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29:46

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29:50

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29:55

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29:55

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29:59

rebel leader with The hearts