0:00

3 , 2 , 1

0:02

, 0 , 10 , lift off , lift off

0:04

, lift off .

0:10

And welcome to another episode of the Recipe for Grinners

0:12

podcast . I'm your host , jake Greenwood , and

0:14

in this podcast we interview the founders behind

0:16

some of the best food and drink companies in the

0:18

UK to find out the skills

0:21

habits that they've used to grow

0:23

their business . Now , to end the podcast

0:25

, we have Louise Webb , the founder of the popcorn

0:28

kitchen . Louise has had an incredible

0:30

career journey that has led her to create

0:32

one of the most innovative popcorn brands in the

0:34

UK . From early days working

0:36

in food science and buying in major retailers

0:39

, louise has taken popcorn kitchen

0:41

from festivals to shelves at self-ridges

0:43

and other retailers , all the while

0:46

focusing on the product , innovation and

0:48

sustainability . Louise , welcome to the podcast , and

0:50

I wanted to start

0:53

and ask you about your previous

0:55

careers before we jump into what you're up to

0:57

now . So what were

1:00

you doing prior to popcorn

1:02

kitchen ? And also listen

1:05

to a story , actually that when you started

1:07

one of your careers , that you sat

1:09

down and wrote a 10-year plan about

1:11

where you are now and where you wanted to

1:13

get to and asked your managers for feedback

1:15

. So I guess , jumping

1:18

back to what we are up to and then maybe sort of talk

1:20

about that story with the 10-year plan .

1:23

Yes . So I had a great career actually

1:25

. I did some fantastic jobs

1:28

and worked with some amazing people , all

1:30

of which have been able to shape me

1:32

into the person that I am today . So

1:34

I got a degree in food science , started in a

1:36

lab , hated it because I was working

1:38

on my own I'm an extrovert

1:41

, so being on your own isn't

1:43

the best but then I jumped into

1:45

quality and new product development

1:48

. So , as a food technologist , I

1:50

then moved into buying

1:53

in Safeway , which was a brilliant

1:55

place to work , quite

1:57

challenging , but really good . Help

1:59

me with my resilience and tenacity

2:01

. And then I moved into sales and

2:04

it was like a Dr Water . I

2:06

absolutely loved it and

2:10

really excelled in it and

2:12

thought this is the career I

2:14

want and I was very ambitious

2:16

. So I wrote this 10-year plan , basically

2:19

from an account manager to

2:21

a sales director , and

2:24

I went to see my manager and I said this is

2:26

what I want to do and I had all the roadmap

2:28

and the timings and

2:30

key milestones and he said to me oh

2:32

my word . He said you are really

2:34

ambitious . I said no , this is what I

2:36

want to do . Anyway , I beat

2:39

the 10 years . So within six years

2:41

I'd actually become the sales director of KP

2:43

Snats and I absolutely loved

2:45

it , but there was something missing

2:47

. I don't know what it was

2:50

, but it was something missing . And I had a coaching session

2:52

with a really good friend of mine who

2:54

basically said it's more

2:56

about entrepreneurialism with you

2:58

, louise . I think maybe that's something

3:00

you should explore . So a bit of

3:02

consultancy , which I loved as well

3:04

, but then Popcorn

3:07

Kitchen came along and I've never

3:09

looked back . It's been brilliant .

3:13

You mentioned there

3:15

the entrepreneurialism sort of bubbling in the

3:17

background . Was there a moment that sort of you

3:19

decided right now is the time , because

3:22

obviously one thing is

3:24

thinking about something , another thing is doing it . Do

3:26

you remember that sort of time , peter ? But you just thought

3:28

something clicked and you just thought , right , I'm just going to do it and I'm

3:30

going to go for it .

3:33

Yes , you've got to love your job . You

3:35

spend an awful lot of your time

3:37

working earning money so you

3:39

can do all the nice things . And I

3:41

think for me it was when

3:43

I became a sales director . I

3:46

stopped doing the things that I really enjoyed

3:48

the customer management , the new product

3:50

development , working

3:53

without my suppliers and

3:55

it was more about policy and strategy and

3:57

I just thought I want to do something different , I

3:59

want to get back at the cold face again , and

4:02

that was the moment for me . And then it was

4:04

just about finding the right thing to

4:06

do for me , which popcorn

4:08

business was .

4:11

And let's talk about sort of around . I think it

4:13

was 2012 , through the business

4:15

launch , and

4:17

then it was kind of just popping

4:20

up at sort of festivals , right . What

4:22

happened in 2017 ? Was

4:24

that that moment where you just thought , right , this

4:26

business is going to be something big , and

4:28

was it kind of like your career , where you sat down and

4:31

wrote that 10-year plan , thinking about sort of where it is

4:33

now , where you wanted to get to ?

4:35

Yes , I mean it was fantastic . I

4:37

mean the festivals are clearly great , fun and

4:39

great to do , but there's no money in it

4:42

. So , having

4:44

worked in retail and having worked in FMCG

4:47

for such a long time , we really understood

4:49

the snacking category as well . So

4:51

it kind of felt like the perfect marriage to

4:53

me . So we set about creating

4:56

a 10-year strategy

4:59

of where we wanted to take the business , what

5:02

the pack formats we were going to do , which

5:04

channels that we were going to operate in , and

5:07

we wanted to develop a brand which is a premium

5:09

brand , which sits in more speciality

5:11

channels . And since

5:13

then we've been working with

5:16

lots of fantastic customers and

5:18

one of them that has supported us right

5:20

from the start was Selfridges , and

5:23

they are incredible to work with

5:26

and also they're a great shop window

5:28

for the brand and has really helped us launch

5:31

our products .

5:33

And you mentioned there sort

5:35

of festivals , and then we've jumped now to Selfridges

5:37

. What was that like ? Transition like

5:39

? So what does someone have to do ? So you

5:41

mentioned there like you create amazing brand . That's

5:44

one thing . How do you get from just selling

5:46

it to a few people to actually getting ready to

5:48

pitch to Selfridges ?

5:50

And what ?

5:50

does that look like , and how did you get it done ?

5:53

It's really hard work . It sounds easy

5:55

when you just say it oh yeah , we're in Selfridges

5:58

, it's been really good . Oh yeah , we've

6:00

grown double digit for the last three years

6:02

. It sounds really easy . It's really hard

6:04

work . So if anybody

6:06

in sales people are out there , cold

6:09

calling is a terrible

6:11

thing . Trying to knock

6:13

on people's doors selling samples

6:16

Rejection is a way of life . Certainly

6:20

, all of my experience of being in sales

6:22

has certainly helped me continue

6:24

with that resilience and persistence to

6:27

actually get into these people and

6:30

to be able to sell the fact that this is a fantastic

6:32

product , we use great quality

6:34

ingredients , everything's handmade

6:36

and that we weren't going to just

6:38

be another supermarket brand

6:40

, because most of the popcorn brands

6:42

are commoditized . Now it all gets sold at the

6:45

pound and we just didn't want to

6:47

do that . So , yeah

6:49

, hard work . It's such hard work getting

6:51

a new listing , and

6:53

especially someone like Selfridges .

6:57

Do you think your career as

6:59

a buyer sort of helps you

7:01

learn that sort of against tenacity

7:03

and resilience to just keep going , Because

7:05

you mentioned there , so you know hard

7:07

work , knockbacks . Do you reckon that previous

7:10

career really helped you create that sort

7:12

of ?

7:12

No , definitely . I mean , retail

7:15

is a tough business to work in and

7:18

at the time , Safeway was going

7:20

through a huge transition as

7:22

well . It was a very

7:25

aggressive culture , you know , and you really

7:27

did have to stand on your own two

7:29

feet and make sure that

7:31

you fought for your categories and you

7:33

fought for the investment that you needed in your

7:36

categories . So I definitely feel

7:38

that over my career

7:40

, that you actually , you know

7:42

, don't you take some tumbles

7:44

in your career , but actually

7:46

it's a good thing . You know , failure is a good thing

7:48

because it allows you to . It

7:52

allows you to become more resilient

7:55

and more persevere

7:57

with things more . And you know , sometimes

8:00

you might not succeed in

8:02

life , but you've got to keep on going

8:04

. And I have a really nice personal motto

8:06

, which is that either to win or

8:08

learn . So , rather

8:12

than win or make mistakes , because

8:14

winning or learning sounds so much

8:16

positive and I

8:18

think I've learned so much and I'm continuously

8:20

learning as well , every day until I learn

8:23

something new .

8:24

I love that so much . It's so I know

8:27

it's something you can always say to yourself

8:29

, but it's always hard to remember . That's

8:31

you know , just even if it's not going well , that you're still

8:33

learning . That's a great way to frame it while making

8:35

sure everything's positive . So back

8:38

to Selfridges . What was that pitch like ? What

8:40

did you present yourself to them ? How did you position

8:43

popcorn kitchen to them to stand out ? And

8:45

sort of , how did you get that first listing

8:48

?

8:49

Yeah . So the

8:51

sending samples in

8:54

being to nature

8:56

saying we'd really like a break , lucky

8:58

break met the buyer

9:01

and they were really supportive and

9:03

really lovely . You

9:05

know they're quite challenging in terms of commercially

9:09

, but was able to

9:11

launch new products

9:13

. They're very supportive

9:16

and , you know , even today , every

9:18

year they list us

9:20

all year round in their stores and

9:23

at Christmas time they really do support

9:25

us . So , like this year , they're

9:28

really interested in NPD and new products and

9:30

they're willing to have a punt on new

9:32

products and what we're delivering

9:35

. So we've got lots of new products in there this year as

9:37

well , which is fantastic news , and

9:39

I love going there and doing sampling sessions

9:42

because the shoppers

9:45

really like the brand as well , because

9:47

they've seen the brand grow

9:49

over a number of years and

9:52

some of them even ring me up and talk to me about

9:54

it . I've got a lovely lady actually

9:57

she lives next door to Steven

9:59

Spielberg in London

10:01

and she rang me up and she talked

10:03

to me about how she was exporting

10:05

my giant

10:08

bottles of popcorn to Brazil and

10:11

she was such a lovely lady and we

10:13

spent hours on the phone . It was fantastic

10:15

, it really was , but she buys it through Selfridges

10:18

. Oh it's amazing , absolutely brilliant

10:20

.

10:21

Amazing . I was going to touch on that

10:23

, but I must touch on now . So one thing I've

10:25

heard you talk about is product development

10:27

and innovation . I see your eyes light up , you get super

10:29

excited about it , and how do you

10:31

come across those ideas

10:34

? And then how do you take them from

10:36

your head to actually a product ?

10:39

Yeah , I mean a lot of it is about my personal

10:41

. You know , when you're growing up you have little ideas of

10:43

things or you really like something

10:45

and you think , oh , I want to do something like that . So

10:48

a great one of the I mean the giant bottle is a

10:50

great example of that , of how

10:52

we've continued to develop that . So

10:55

as a kid , everyone used to have a

10:57

large bottle of Bell's Whiskey

11:00

I never drank , but

11:02

my dad drank and then you put your

11:04

pennies in it and I always remember the bottom

11:06

fell out of it and feeling quite upset

11:08

about that . So what do I do when you

11:11

own a company ? You develop a giant

11:13

bottle that you can put your pennies

11:15

in and then you

11:17

can continue to develop the format

11:19

and it's been brilliant . So it is a money box as

11:21

well , our giant bottle . And then

11:24

this year we had a

11:26

bit of a you know another . Oh

11:28

, I want to do something a bit different , because

11:31

everything , all of our popcorn , is popped

11:33

and home making and home

11:35

baking is still a massive phenomena . It's

11:38

an offshoot of COVID , when

11:40

people were at home and doing things and

11:43

there's lots of baking kits out on the market and

11:45

I thought , oh , I want to do something with popcorn

11:48

. So I developed a Pop it Home Kit which

11:50

is full of fantastic

11:53

chocolate bits . It's unbelievable

11:55

and it's so easy to make . And

11:57

you know a little secret here Popcorn

11:59

actually , if you don't do something with it , it's quite

12:02

boring and dull . So what you

12:04

do with these kits , you actually coat

12:06

it in chocolate and I've got some easy milk

12:08

, belgian chocolate chips and some sweets

12:10

and it's a really gooey mess and

12:12

it's fantastic for children and we

12:15

actually developed it in my kitchen with

12:17

children in mind , which

12:19

seems like a good example of

12:21

how you actually got the NUs

12:24

to use it . But it was incredibly messy

12:26

or great fun we

12:28

had . We had , we had fantastic . So

12:31

I try to think about things . So , like

12:33

my lemon drizzle popcorn is actually

12:35

because of my love of lemon drizzle

12:38

cake , which can be quite stodgy

12:40

and maybe not , you know , not great

12:42

for everyday stacking , but a

12:44

bag of popcorn which , with a flavor

12:47

profile of lemon drizzle which is ultimately

12:49

delicious , is lowering calories

12:52

, not a stodgy and you can eat on the

12:54

go .

12:56

So many different avenues I can go down there . I guess

12:58

let's go

13:00

to problems and solutions . You

13:02

touched on it there with the

13:05

Bell's whiskey example in

13:07

your bottle . Some

13:09

people see problems , they just accept them . But what

13:11

I found so great about you , the story of , is that

13:14

you actually thought

13:16

we're importing this

13:18

from Italy . The tell

13:20

the story that you actually then bought

13:22

your own equipment and now you're making actually in the UK

13:25

.

13:26

Yeah , oh gosh . Yeah . So

13:29

the problem with importing from Italy

13:31

? There's lots of problems . The sustainability

13:33

, the bottles were getting cracked , it was

13:36

a load of wastage , it

13:38

was just not working . So I

13:40

went into a collaboration

13:42

with a great group of guys

13:46

called NPS in

13:48

the UK and we

13:50

went into a joint venture to buy this piece of kit

13:52

to make the giant bottle

13:54

in the UK . So we get a better

13:56

quality , it's more

13:58

sustainable because it's coming

14:01

into the UK . We

14:04

get service all year round because

14:06

Italy used to have a holiday

14:09

for three weeks in August , which

14:11

is our key making time for Christmas

14:13

. So , yeah

14:15

, we bit the bullet , we

14:17

invested the money and

14:20

, yeah , we bought our own piece of kit .

14:23

Is that you just thinking , right , we

14:26

can do this in the UK ? And you just thought , right , I'll just approach

14:29

someone and I'll say , why don't you do this ? You can benefit

14:31

, I can benefit . Is that you just reaching out to

14:33

people saying this to them ?

14:35

Well , we'd already been working with NPS on

14:38

a different bottle , so it kind

14:40

of made sense to have a conversation to

14:42

say would you like ? Because they

14:44

? I'm not a plastics expert and

14:47

nor am I a bottling expert , so

14:49

it's always good to use people that are

14:52

better than yourselves in the area of their strengths and

14:54

not yours . So we

14:56

had a conversation with them and

14:59

they said , yeah , we'd love to do

15:01

it . And we haven't looked back

15:03

and they're really busy with it as well , which

15:06

is great .

15:07

Amazing , and one thing I heard you speak about

15:10

as well , is that you've actively decided

15:12

not to push hardcore for , like you know

15:14

, the big retailers , the big four , and

15:16

is there ? I think , as

15:19

you mentioned , that it's because you know people

15:21

see , you

15:23

know , think that's the right path to go down

15:26

, but they are underlook , kind of like that other

15:28

market which you're targeting . Is that the case

15:30

?

15:31

Yeah , definitely . I mean there

15:34

is a place and a time for the big retailers

15:36

and have been dealt with them for a lot of years

15:38

. I understand exactly what

15:41

they want . You know they want the best product they possibly can

15:43

but at the cheapest price . And

15:46

when I talk to my customers

15:48

you know the farm shops and the garden

15:50

centres they actually like the fact

15:52

that we're not in big retailers

15:55

because they like to list

15:57

artisan products that

15:59

people can't get in

16:01

their big retailers . So that means

16:04

that their shoppers aren't going to see

16:06

my gifts in a Tesco's or

16:08

a Sainsbury's and therefore

16:10

they're OK with spending that

16:12

bit more money because they know it's handmade

16:15

, they know that it's hand-finished , they know it's using

16:17

the best ingredients . So I

16:19

definitely think there's a place for these big retailers

16:21

. On volume products

16:25

, but my gifts they're just

16:27

not volume products . They are more

16:30

for the discerning customer in

16:32

garden centres where you expect to find something

16:34

different .

16:37

Now moving on to COVID

16:40

. Obviously we know it's a terrible

16:42

time , but I heard

16:44

you say it was a bit of a blessing for

16:46

you guys in a way . What kind of happened to

16:48

you guys over that period and how

16:50

have things been different since ?

16:53

Yeah . So , oh my gosh . I mean

16:55

probably a lot of businesses . Covid

16:58

came lockdown , came March

17:00

2020 , all the shops

17:02

closed . Oh my word . And

17:07

where do we go ? Where

17:10

were we going to go ? But

17:12

what COVID did , bizarrely , was

17:14

gave us time to step

17:16

back and think . And it's a commodity

17:19

that is quite scarce , actually , isn't it in life

17:21

? Because we're all running around really quickly

17:24

and I was

17:26

able to say , right

17:28

, ok , what is our new channel

17:30

strategy based on the fact that everything's

17:32

closed and we've got all this stock in the warehouse

17:34

. We've got nowhere to go . So

17:37

I started to look around

17:40

and found hamper companies . So

17:43

people at home . They didn't know what

17:45

to do with themselves half the time , but they were going online

17:47

and they were buying lots of things . So

17:50

I developed a business in hamper

17:52

companies and they were really supportive

17:55

and , more importantly , they were growing so

17:57

quickly . They needed to buy

17:59

more products and

18:02

I won hamper company Ring Me Up and they said

18:04

to me I don't suppose you've got five pallets

18:07

of stock , have you ? And I said I have

18:09

, I have , I've

18:11

got five pallets . When do you want

18:13

it Tomorrow

18:15

? Anyway , they bought

18:17

it for me and they solved a huge

18:19

problem , but

18:21

I created a stronger and better strategy

18:24

, because I spent some

18:26

time thinking about it to really understand

18:29

what I wanted to do , and

18:31

we've implemented that strategy

18:34

. I'm just following that same strategy and

18:36

that's led to so in Bizarrely

18:39

, in 2020 , I had my best

18:41

every year at Popcorn

18:44

Kitchen . We doubled the business

18:46

in 21 and we doubled

18:48

it again in 22 . And we're

18:50

having a cracking year this year . So

18:53

well , you know we're going to grow again

18:55

this year . So you know it is fantastic

18:57

. It really was fantastic and

19:00

also , controversially

19:03

, it wouldn't have happened

19:05

if I didn't have a little bounce

19:08

back loan from Rishi or

19:10

the deferral of that . So

19:13

I think people forget

19:15

sometimes that actually there are

19:17

some people that really appreciate what the

19:19

government of the time did for us .

19:22

Yeah , I completely agree with that as well . I think people

19:24

you know some

19:27

aspects weren't right , but I think , yeah , the support

19:29

they gave definitely helped out a lot of people . That's

19:31

really good . So , growing

19:34

year , doubling year on year is

19:36

great , but I know one thing that's really important

19:38

to you is sustainability

19:40

. So what's that journey been like ? At

19:42

the same time You're growing , you're focusing

19:45

on just shipping our product , but at the same time I

19:47

know it's called sustainability what's that journey

19:49

been like for you ?

19:52

Yeah , I think you know , as

19:54

an individual , I want to do the right thing , I want to

19:56

be seen to be doing the right thing , and

19:58

I kind of had a bit of a scattergun approach

20:01

. I didn't really understand what was the right thing

20:03

to do . So we looked

20:05

at making sure that our packaging was recyclable

20:08

and we've got

20:10

our giant bottle is curbside recyclable

20:13

and that we're doing the best thing we can

20:15

. We started to work with a

20:17

company called Rewild , who are basically

20:20

plant trees , and it all felt

20:22

really good about it . But

20:24

you know , as a scientist

20:26

, I like facts and data

20:29

and I didn't really understand

20:31

what . So I'm planting some trees . That

20:33

sounds really good , but what does it actually mean

20:35

? So I

20:38

was flirting with the idea of

20:40

doing B Corp , but it

20:42

takes a lot of time and it takes

20:44

a lot of effort and

20:47

I wanted to write a sustainability strategy

20:49

but I wanted to do it really well , but

20:51

again , I didn't have time to do

20:53

all of the running of the business and

20:55

all of this detailed analysis

20:58

and investigation . So I

21:00

live near Cranfield

21:03

University and

21:05

they have amazing people there

21:07

and I applied

21:10

for some interns

21:12

, some students , some internships with

21:14

the sustainability and

21:16

the project basically was all about

21:19

how does a business like mine

21:21

become more sustainable ? And

21:24

the professor there wrote back and

21:26

said we love the project . Louise , we really want

21:28

to help you . Let me send you over some

21:30

students . Oh , my word , there's

21:33

a whole raft of amazing

21:35

people you know much brighter

21:37

than I am out there wanting

21:40

to have all this experience of a company

21:42

. So I've got two MSc

21:44

students , already graduates

21:47

, and they're basically become

21:49

my sustainability strategist and they

21:51

are writing my sustainability

21:54

strategy . And

21:56

then I spoke to a

21:58

guy called Andy Hawkins , who I like

22:01

to call Mr Beacock , so

22:03

he effectively runs a Beacock

22:05

training . I mean , he's a brilliant guy

22:07

. You know what he doesn't know about Beacock is nobody's

22:10

business . He's fantastic . Anyway

22:12

, he explained to me the process

22:14

. I talked to him about the students . He said

22:16

, yes , do it , do it . And that's

22:18

what we're going to do . We are

22:21

going to . We're on

22:23

the journey on Beacock . In

22:26

fact , yesterday , hot off the press , we

22:28

reached the 80 points plus

22:31

to go into the next stage

22:33

and put ourselves forward for the audit . So

22:35

by the end of September we're going to be audit ready and then

22:37

it takes about nine

22:39

months for them

22:41

to come and audit the company . But I'm really excited

22:44

about that , and the guys have done such

22:47

a great job for me as well . So

22:49

I've really tapped into this kind of

22:51

student internship opportunity

22:53

and actually for any SME

22:55

, I'd absolutely recommend it . There's all

22:57

these students in this country that

23:00

have got a really talented , a really

23:02

well educated , but what they want is experience

23:06

. So these guys are now going to

23:08

go away and they're going to have six months

23:10

of working with me and actually

23:13

delivering my sustainability

23:15

strategy . So I'm really proud of that

23:17

, what they've done , and I'm

23:20

really excited about the Beacock

23:22

as well . So within that

23:24

, we've got to

23:28

know said I talked about trees and everything else

23:30

but we'll rewilder , actually

23:32

helping us to measure my carbon footprint

23:34

, because my ultimate mission is

23:36

to become carbon neutral as a company . Now

23:39

, that's a long way off , but it's great to have

23:41

a great goal like that , isn't it ? And

23:44

I know that we're going to achieve

23:47

it with the help of rewild and

23:51

how we can offset

23:53

our carbon emissions and how we can do

23:55

the best for the business to

23:57

make sure that we are the most sustainable .

24:00

That's incredible . It's that thread as well

24:02

, where there's a problem and you

24:04

sort of take an innovative approach

24:06

to find a solution . This is really really great

24:09

. One thing I heard you speak about

24:11

as well is actually when you

24:13

choose a partner , and one of

24:15

the most important things is actually making sure

24:17

that they have the right credentials , they

24:19

can be audited , they have everything you want

24:21

in place , so why is that so important for

24:23

them to make sure that they have everything in place

24:26

?

24:27

Yes , again , because of my

24:29

background and I used

24:31

to do audits for Safeway as well food

24:34

safety is incredibly important because

24:37

people are going to consume your products . So

24:40

for me , making sure

24:42

that we have the right partners

24:44

who help us with our manufacturing so

24:47

we've got three in the UK

24:50

. They've all got self-serve accreditation

24:52

. They're all really good . If we ever have a

24:54

problem , which is very rarely

24:57

, they're always on the ball . They're always

24:59

very supportive . And

25:03

I've got a really big thing about

25:05

customer service , because if you treat

25:07

customers in the right way

25:09

and you really bend over backwards

25:11

for them delivering on time , do

25:13

what you say you're going to do , if there's a problem

25:15

, you fix it immediately with no quibble , those

25:17

kind of things . And having those partners

25:20

behind you is incredibly important

25:23

to do that . And also

25:25

on the sustainability journey , all of

25:27

my suppliers have been really

25:29

supportive of it . So because

25:31

we need to understand their carbon footprints as well

25:33

so we can measure our own carbon footprint

25:35

. But yeah

25:38

, so we

25:40

do a sedex audit

25:42

questionnaire every two years and

25:44

we also which is the ethical part of it

25:47

and

25:49

then they send us the . They get audited

25:51

every year for Salsa and

25:54

then I go on site every year

25:56

just to check it

25:58

out , make sure everything's fine

26:00

, but we don't have any issues

26:02

. They are really good compliant

26:05

partners and you

26:08

can always tell when somebody isn't

26:10

, because there's lots of mistakes , and

26:13

so if the controls aren't in place , then

26:16

you can tell when people are out of control

26:18

. But my suppliers are fantastic

26:20

, really good to work with .

26:22

And is it really important to

26:24

make sure when you're starting a journey

26:27

, you look for those right partners

26:29

, because I guess if they're not

26:31

in the right standard , then

26:33

that could hurt you further down the line . If , like say

26:35

, you're doubling every year , then some people might be like

26:37

you need this in place . So would you recommend that people

26:39

really dig into making sure they actually know everything

26:41

about those partners and actually do

26:43

you say dig into or do you credit or what

26:45

they have ?

26:47

Absolutely , it's the number one thing . If you're going into

26:49

a food business or a food brand

26:52

, your brand lives

26:54

and dies on the quality of it , and

26:57

so what you're trying to do , you're trying to mitigate

26:59

any issues that you could

27:01

have in the future . So by having people

27:04

with accreditation , people that

27:06

have got good hasps

27:08

in place , so good quality management

27:10

systems in place . So

27:14

every time I look for a new

27:16

supplier or new manufacturing

27:18

partner , I always say to them first

27:21

question what's your accreditation ? Because

27:24

there's no point If

27:26

the answer is no , there's no point in working

27:28

with them , because in

27:32

today's world our customers expect

27:35

a souter as a

27:37

minimum and they

27:39

won't entertain us if we

27:41

don't have that . So very few

27:44

anyway .

27:48

Talking now about growing the business . One thing

27:50

that I saw was Joe Wicks

27:53

and he came across it and

27:56

he was seeing online holding the amazing

27:59

bottle you were talking about . So I

28:01

guess , what are

28:03

you doing in the background to make

28:05

something like that happen ? Is it an actively

28:07

you outbounding people or are

28:09

you doing something just organically

28:12

in the background and just doing that and then

28:14

those things just happen ?

28:17

Yeah , oh my God , if I knew

28:19

how Joe Wicks got hold

28:21

of my bottle of popcorn , I'd

28:23

bottle that and sell it , because I

28:27

mean I have no idea . I

28:29

mean the very fact that he supported

28:31

it . He called it his RayDark's , he

28:33

was in bed with my . I mean I

28:36

really liked Joe Wicks , right , I

28:38

think , along with the whole heap of us . We were

28:40

, you know and COVID , watching

28:42

Joe every day . I'm not sure I

28:44

did the exercise every day . We sat and

28:46

had a cup of tea , just watched

28:48

him from the sofa . But

28:51

to have such an iconic person

28:53

and a fellow

28:55

entrepreneur as well , I mean he's done incredibly well

28:58

for himself , and from very humble

29:00

beginnings as well . So real inspiration

29:02

for me . So the very fact

29:04

he got hold of one of my bottles is brilliant

29:07

. So it kind of came about by

29:10

accident and

29:13

you know , I'd love to have known where

29:15

we got it from , but I've

29:17

yet to find it out . But

29:20

yeah , that was amazing . And then we were

29:22

on this morning as

29:24

well . So earlier on the year

29:26

we were at home as well

29:29

. And , gosh

29:31

, these platforms have such

29:33

big impact on your brand

29:35

to drive brand awareness . I mean

29:37

I don't . I mean Joe Wicks has got three and a half million

29:39

followers . Then , you know , my brand

29:42

is exposed to that on this

29:44

morning . I mean I don't know how many million viewers

29:46

are on it , but I knew something was happening because

29:48

my sales were coming in and

29:50

I was so excited and I've got

29:52

the app . I've got the this morning app because

29:55

I've always tried to get on to it

29:57

and we've been sending samples in all the time

29:59

and getting nowhere . And

30:02

then , when the orders came in , I

30:06

thought , oh my God , we're on this morning . So

30:08

we got the video and we put it onto

30:10

our social media and

30:12

, just to give you a context , so

30:14

every day I might sell , like

30:17

I know , 50 pound a day

30:19

on my website . I

30:22

took over a thousand that

30:24

morning . That's amazing . And

30:27

then after that , you know , we get all these people

30:29

signing up and we really look after

30:31

our customers . We do lots of campaigns

30:33

, we

30:36

give them discounts as well and

30:38

let them know when there's things coming up for sale

30:40

. Yeah , it's been fantastic . It

30:42

really has it's amazing A bit

30:44

of luck , a bit of luck .

30:47

It just goes to show , doesn't it ? It's like you do all these

30:49

things in the background and there's no progress bar

30:51

to show you like where you're giving to , but then eventually

30:54

something like it comes around and it just shows you'd be doing

30:56

all the right stuff . I'm kind

30:58

of short of time so I want to finish on last

31:00

two questions . One is from

31:03

your background , working as

31:05

a buyer , what

31:08

I think I heard you say that

31:10

you know you can be quite firm . People

31:13

don't realize that they can actually like push back

31:15

on retailers and say actually no , we should do this

31:18

, because I think they're not really in the position of power

31:20

. You sort of I think you said never

31:22

accept certain terms like

31:24

be brave to negotiate . Is that

31:26

what you kind of experienced from your buyer's

31:28

background and is it something you'd recommend to people

31:31

just to sort of push harder ?

31:33

I got a lie . Yes , it's

31:35

the answer . I'm going to give you a really good example

31:39

of this . So this is about transport

31:42

, and

31:44

I was . So

31:47

transport last year was a nightmare because

31:49

fuel was going through the roof . We

31:53

had fuel surcharges

31:55

. What's that all about ? 15

31:57

to 20% on a pallet deal . I have no idea

31:59

what that means , but it was ridiculous

32:02

and it was really eating into my profitability

32:04

. And then this year they passed

32:07

on another price

32:09

increase and I'm like thinking , oh , my word

32:11

, it's such a big part and it's really crucifying

32:13

me . And then I got speaking

32:15

to somebody . I thought I'm just going to be

32:17

inquisitive and start feeling where

32:20

the market is , because it doesn't feel right , because petrol

32:22

prices were coming down . And I got

32:24

talking to a really great

32:26

guy who runs his own transport firm and

32:28

I said what is the fuel

32:30

surcharge ? Because I'm being charged 15 to 20%

32:33

. And he said to me it's five

32:35

. And I said what

32:37

, what , what

32:39

? I can't believe it . I'm being

32:41

charged on this money . So effectively

32:44

I've completely changed my

32:46

haulier because I will

32:48

not accept that I'm going to be paying these higher prices

32:50

. And if they don't want to move their

32:52

prices within that market

32:55

there are lots of providers and

32:57

when it's the old supply and demand . If

33:00

you've got lots of supply

33:03

, then it's a buyer's market and

33:05

you don't have to accept

33:08

price rises . And , quite

33:10

frankly , I'm a little bit frustrated

33:12

that everything

33:14

, all the commodities , are coming off now

33:16

and we

33:18

should . If people are out there , I

33:20

would highly recommend people

33:23

do a tender because there

33:25

are lots of businesses that want business

33:27

and if you're the companies you're

33:29

using at the moment are passing

33:31

those savings on , then you should move

33:33

.

33:35

And is that just a process of you just like outbounding

33:38

to like 10 different haulers ? Is that how you do it

33:40

?

33:40

Yeah , yeah , yeah

33:42

, I say give me your pallet prices and

33:46

that's it . They came with their pallet

33:48

prices and I just did a quick . It

33:51

didn't take me a long time because I don't have any time

33:53

. I did a quick review of

33:55

the market , of the people I chose

33:57

, and then I found the cheapest one , and they

33:59

do a fantastic job for me , really

34:02

good .

34:03

Amazing . And when I finish , our one final question

34:05

, because you've got the same

34:07

innovation as Keeter , you create amazing

34:09

products .

34:10

Is there one ?

34:11

looking at everything you've developed , one that stands

34:13

out to you most , you're most proud of . Maybe it was sort of

34:15

the process you went through or the creativity

34:17

behind it . Is there something that stands out to you as like this

34:20

is the one that I really , really am proud of .

34:23

Yeah , pop at home . It's

34:26

been such

34:28

an incredible success

34:30

so , and the story

34:33

behind it's really lovely as well . So

34:35

I really wanted to do this and

34:38

my friend Jeanette

34:40

I'm sure she wouldn't mind

34:42

me saying Jeanette she

34:45

came round this one weekend it was in October

34:47

last year and to see me . I haven't seen

34:49

her for a while and she walked through the door and before I could

34:51

even say hello to her , I said can we develop

34:54

a new product together ? And she was like

34:56

, oh yeah , love to do it . So

34:58

we spent all day going round the supermarkets

35:00

buying ingredients and sweets and everything else

35:03

and popping corn in the

35:05

kitchen and developing these

35:07

products . And

35:09

, oh Jay , they've

35:11

sold hugely above the

35:14

expectation . So we launched three

35:16

in January , which was the

35:18

Mini Eggs , rocky Road and a

35:20

Smarties one , and

35:23

they've been so successful . I've now got

35:25

a Halloween one , a chocolate sprouts

35:27

one , which is so quirky , so cute

35:30

, and also a white chocolate

35:32

snow is . They have done unbelievably

35:35

well from a nothing start

35:37

, so I'm really proud of that .

35:39

Amazing . It seems like a perfect place to record

35:41

the interview and I guess just want to say as well , like

35:43

the constant theme that's running through is just how

35:46

much fun you're having . At the same

35:48

time it's stressful , it's super hard , but you

35:50

can just see you smiling and just like , like

35:52

just even that story there . You know , let's

35:54

sit down in our afternoon and actually

35:56

just create a new product . So it's really inspiring to listen

35:58

to and it's such an amazing story . So thank you so much for coming

36:00

on to chat .

36:02

Thank you , jay , it's been brilliant , thank you .

36:06

As always , guys , thank you so much

36:08

for listening , really

36:11

appreciate the support and if

36:13

you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're

36:15

listening to , please like

36:17

and subscribe , and Friar

36:20

Review would really appreciate it Again

36:23

. We'll be back doing this weekly and

36:26

, yeah , if you want to know more about Sourcing and Food

36:28

Business , head to wwwjgrenewoodcom

36:31

. But , guys , as always , thank you

36:33

and be great .