0:00

You should have gone with the movie called A Perfect Murderer

0:02

that has nothing to do with DIAL M for murder

0:04

at all. Nothing whatsoever. Welcome

0:08

to Recatopia, a happy

0:10

home for recommended movies, shows,

0:13

and music from two people you can

0:15

definitely trust. Trustability

0:17

varies by region, no guarantee is implied.

0:32

And now, here

0:33

are your hosts, Aaron Dicer and

0:36

Jeremy Scott. As I sat in the corner,

0:38

I thought of all sorts of things. I thought of

0:40

three different ways of killing him.

0:42

I even thought of killing her. That

0:45

seemed a far more sensible idea.

0:48

Hello everybody! Welcome

0:50

to Recatopia episode 88. I'm

0:53

Scott and I'm Dicer. Yeah,

0:55

I remember this time. And

0:57

now we're wild and crazy guys.

0:59

The problem is your last name sounds like a first

1:02

name. It does, it does. I have had

1:04

three first names my whole life. Oh

1:06

well, welcome to the chat. Glad to see some usual

1:09

faces in there and

1:12

hope to see you chiming in on some of these topics

1:14

and issues. The big recommended day from Dicer

1:16

is DIAL M for murder. And

1:19

before we get into that, we like to do the

1:21

small recommends. And Aaron, I'm hoping

1:23

you brought a couple with you. It's no big deal. It's

1:27

so small and light. It's small, it's tiny.

1:29

It's petite, it's weak. I did not

1:31

forget. I did bring a couple.

1:35

Let's start off with the movie. This

1:37

was a previous big recommend

1:39

on this show. However, I was not on

1:41

that

1:42

show. So I did not get to talk

1:44

about Talk Radio, which I recently

1:46

launched.

1:48

This is Oliver

1:50

Stone, right? Doing this movie

1:53

and it's, you know, it's got a little

1:55

bit of that dark conspiracy magic that Oliver

1:57

Stone likes to get into.

1:59

It is really a movie, in my opinion,

2:03

that is, I'm going to say about 25

2:05

years ahead of its time,

2:08

and kind of the stuff that it's dealing with and the

2:10

idea of, you know, when we watch

2:12

movies like this sometimes, this is late 80s

2:15

when this came out, and

2:18

sometimes movies just show

2:20

us that as it is, it always

2:23

was. You know, things have always been

2:25

how we think they are just now, and

2:27

this is kind of one of those movies because it deals

2:29

with, you know, ideas

2:32

of polarization, ideas

2:34

of, I mean, you could substitute talk radio for

2:36

Twitter and have the same movie. You

2:38

know what I mean? Like, the ideas of way

2:41

people interact with each other,

2:43

the way that entertainment

2:46

becomes philosophy instead

2:48

of just entertainment and therefore becomes

2:51

more important than

2:53

it actually is, the way celebrity impacts

2:56

entertainment in culture and philosophy.

3:00

And you know, I don't need to rehash a lot of what was

3:02

already gone over in the episode

3:05

of Rekatopia where you guys talked about this, so

3:07

you can go back and check that for plot and

3:09

some other thoughts, but man, this

3:11

movie is so good. You

3:14

know, the end isn't necessarily

3:16

surprising if you're paying attention, but it

3:18

is very impactful,

3:21

very meaningful, and

3:23

I think what the movie has to say about

3:28

self-destruction is very interesting

3:30

as well throughout this. So

3:33

yeah, really, and the performances are

3:35

amazing, and you guys loved

3:37

on, you know, the spinning one shot. It's

3:40

kind of the, you know, the feature

3:42

of the

3:44

production of the movie, and rightly so.

3:47

It's a pretty amazing speech and then shot

3:49

in a pretty amazing way. Yeah,

3:51

Talk Radio Rules,

3:54

it's one of those movies that once

3:56

I got into film, of course this was before I was

3:58

going to movies, but Once I got into film

4:01

in the 90s, Oliver Stone was kind of one of the

4:03

big directors, JFK and all that

4:05

stuff. And so it was like, well, what else has he

4:07

done that we've never seen? So I went back and

4:09

rented talk radio and blew

4:12

me away. So good.

4:14

And

4:15

the little phone beep beep

4:18

kind of rhythmic music kind of thing that

4:20

this film has inspired a song that I wrote in my

4:22

college band. So there you go. Oh, interesting.

4:25

All right. Well, my first small recommend

4:27

this week is a small

4:29

recommend, but to you, Mr.

4:31

Aaron Dicer, it is a personal

4:34

huge recommend. Fair enough. And

4:37

this is another one of these American-British

4:40

blind spots where I find out

4:42

something like apparently last week I learned

4:44

that apparently British people put butter on any

4:46

sandwich they eat. If you're eating

4:49

a sandwich, you put butter on that bread, and that just

4:51

is wild to me. So

4:53

I have now discovered a game show that's been running for 19 seasons,

4:58

as they say, since 2008. And

5:00

it's very similar to one

5:02

of my New York Times Word games I told you about several

5:04

weeks ago. It's called Only Connect.

5:07

And have

5:09

you ever heard of this, Aaron? No,

5:11

but I did ask Ian about it, and he was like, oh, yeah,

5:14

it's the best thing ever. You will love this. He

5:16

didn't tell me much other than that. So I'm

5:18

excited for you to tell me about it. It's still up your

5:20

alley. This is the nerdiest game

5:23

show I've ever seen. The contestants openly

5:25

accept and acknowledge their nerdiness.

5:28

They are encouraged to name their teams

5:31

things about their nerddoms, like the

5:33

Larpers or the

5:35

Transformer Collectors or what have you. And

5:38

it's all about random things

5:40

that have a connection, and how fast

5:43

can you spot the connection? And if you

5:45

miss after four clues,

5:47

the other team has a chance to steal. And

5:50

so I'll give you an example of how

5:52

incredibly hard this is. The

5:55

show – Wikipedia says the show is intentionally

5:57

difficult, and I am watching.

6:00

I'm watching not to

6:02

play along, I'm trying, but I'm not

6:04

succeeding at guessing any of these. And

6:06

I'm just in awe. So one

6:08

example in the episode I watched was

6:10

from season 19, and the first clue

6:13

was the word eon, A-E-O-N. And

6:16

the second clue was the word num. And

6:19

they immediately – they didn't even wait for the third clue. They

6:22

immediately guessed Djibouti because

6:24

the first word had a silent A, the second

6:26

word had a silent B, the third word was going

6:28

to have a silent C, and the fourth word needed

6:31

a silent D. And you don't have to guess

6:33

what she's got on her card as the answer if

6:35

you're logic is right. That's amazing. There

6:38

was one where it showed a picture of a

6:40

horseshoe, then a picture of a pencil, then

6:43

a picture of a walrus, and they

6:45

buzzed in and got – they're all styles of

6:47

mustache. And I was

6:49

like, well, that's absolutely true, but

6:52

my brain has never gotten there in

6:54

that at all. So I have – each of

6:56

the last four or five evenings spent about

6:58

an hour or two watching a couple episodes of this

7:00

show. There's almost 500 episodes

7:03

of this show, so loads

7:05

and loads for you to watch. But

7:07

I really think this is going to tick

7:10

that part of your brain that

7:13

likes language and connections

7:15

and figuring things out. Oh, this

7:17

is the kind of stuff I used to do all the

7:20

time, like with puzzle books

7:22

and that kind of stuff. Yeah,

7:26

I would not consider myself –

7:28

like I would probably lose on

7:30

this show, but as far as words go, that's my jam. So

7:35

it would be a lot of fun. Thanks to

7:37

Slab for pointing out that I did not mention

7:39

where I watched this. It's on YouTube.

7:42

Every episode is on YouTube. Just go to YouTube and

7:44

type onlyconnect. And I forget

7:46

the name of the channel that

7:49

those videos are on. Here

7:53

we go. Wheels on Genius,

7:56

all on word, is the name of the channel that

7:58

hosts Only Connect. on YouTube.

8:01

So there you go. Check it out. Nice. Yeah,

8:03

I will definitely look for that. That

8:05

sounds amazing. Speaking

8:07

of TV shows that are

8:10

Aaron's jam,

8:12

I want to just say a new season of BattleBots

8:15

is started. Oh my. I

8:17

love this show so much. Now,

8:20

I will say that a lot of the surrounding

8:22

production between the actual

8:25

battles botting, bots

8:27

battling, is a

8:30

lot of the production

8:32

in between those kind of things. It's a little

8:34

over the top for me. It's a little cheesy. It's

8:36

a little reality show kind of stuff.

8:39

I do like the guy that does the intros. He

8:41

does a lot of wordplay. And

8:44

I think his name's Farouk. And

8:46

he does a lot of fun wordplay and has a

8:49

big fight style

8:51

announcing kind of thing he does. But everything else

8:53

from the announcers and that kind of stuff,

8:55

I just kind of maybe even fast forward

8:57

through a little bit. But the fights

9:00

are so fun to watch because

9:03

you just get they've got certain rules that

9:06

go along with this. Like your your

9:08

bot can only be like a maximum

9:10

of like 300 pounds. By the way, 300 pounds is a lot of bot. And

9:15

one of the things you don't realize when you watch this

9:17

on TV until you see

9:19

like them bringing their bots in is how huge

9:23

these robots are. Like they are these

9:25

giant machines that are just like running

9:27

into each other at high speeds. And

9:29

then you start to learn about the different kinds

9:32

of bots. You know, there's like flippers and smashers

9:35

and front blades and back blades. And,

9:38

you know, spinners are an

9:40

interesting type of bot and they

9:42

all kind of have their advantages and disadvantages.

9:45

But it is just a blast. I just love watching it.

9:48

So, yeah, if you have Discovery

9:51

on your TV package

9:54

or you can watch it on Max, which

9:56

is now Max, the one for Discovery.

10:00

bots is the thing that's been going on if

10:04

it's the same show or it's

10:06

just different variations really they've adapted

10:09

it's evolved over the years but this

10:11

is technically let me look here

10:15

this is technically season

10:19

nine so this

10:22

is season nine of the new format but

10:24

there this competition was going on

10:26

several years before that and there were some specials

10:29

and that kind of thing but this is technically season nine

10:31

of the new format where

10:33

do you watch it on max

10:36

and it is the goal to flip the other robot

10:38

upside down so the rounds are

10:40

three minutes long and the goal is to absolutely

10:43

disable the other robot so you're

10:45

trying to break you're trying to get it

10:47

so the other robot is knocked out can't move

10:49

can't you know whatever now if if

10:51

both robots go the full three

10:53

minutes and are still mobile then they'll go

10:55

to the judges just like in a boxing match or

10:57

something like that so and they judge them on

10:59

certain like damage aggression

11:03

and you know like car racing I'm

11:05

sure they have all these stipulations about

11:07

what they can and can't do in the build

11:09

of the robot right materials they can and

11:11

can't use and correct there

11:13

are no projectiles so like or

11:16

at least explosion related project though

11:18

so you can't you can't you can't make

11:20

a gun you can't turn your robot into

11:22

a gun or a tank they

11:24

had to specify you can have arrows

11:27

you can throw tennis balls at it and some of

11:29

them have some of them have had other projectiles

11:32

some of them some of them will split their

11:34

weight between multiple robots and

11:36

they will have a drone that shoots

11:38

fire down from the sky

11:41

and that'll be one of their robots with another one that's

11:44

you know doing the groundwork so

11:47

make a hundred tiny robots if

11:49

you wanted to yes that would be a terrible

11:51

decision I don't care I don't care

11:54

what the would you rather you know face a hundred

11:56

duck-sized horses or a hundred horse-sized ducks

11:58

I don't care what you can have the debate if you want,

12:00

but the tiny robots will be

12:03

absolutely a bad decision. You'll

12:05

just get run over. Oh

12:08

man, I'll have to check this out. Oh, it

12:11

sounds definitely fun. It is. It's

12:13

a lot of fun. The chat says the split bots

12:15

never win. So I'm thinking, no, they usually don't

12:17

actually, the split bots don't usually win. There's

12:19

a lot to be said for just putting all your weight in

12:22

the main bot. Um, and man

12:24

there's, but it is fun because there is

12:26

a real battle between like the front, the,

12:28

uh, the front blades and the

12:30

flippers they can, like

12:33

a flipper can, can absolutely

12:35

dominate a match because if they have a good driver

12:38

and they can get under you, some of those flippers

12:40

because of the pneumatics that they're using can

12:42

flip these 300 pound bots 30 feet in the air.

12:46

It's insane. Some of the stuff that happens.

12:48

Yeah. That's wild. I saw an

12:51

ad on Instagram yesterday for, uh, I

12:53

had the volume off and so there was a guy and

12:55

he took a ball, looked like a baseball size

12:58

ball and dropped it. And it kept

13:00

bouncing itself

13:02

to the same height. Ooh, perpetual

13:04

energy. And I thought,

13:07

holy shit. So I clicked on it and then I

13:09

turned on the volume to watch the video again.

13:11

And first of all, it's an absurdly expensive

13:13

product, but it's a musical product.

13:16

They want you to buy multiples of these

13:18

and drop them from various heights. And then they have

13:21

an app that has hundreds of sounds

13:23

that the balls make when they hit So the video

13:25

is this guy basically building his own beat

13:29

with the balls. Okay. I

13:31

was instantly like,

13:33

I'm no longer interested. I have, I want, I'm not going

13:35

to pay $900 for something. I'm going to

13:37

wait for actual perpetual self bouncing

13:40

balls that are just, you know, $30 bouncing

13:42

balls. Like I don't know

13:45

why we keep making new instruments. Like

13:48

it's a fair question. That's a very complicated

13:50

way to make stop being creative humans. That's

13:53

not what I meant. My second small recommend, believe it or

13:55

not, we're still in the. portion

14:01

of the show. Uh, I watched this two,

14:03

three nights ago, uh, on

14:05

one of the pay channels, movie channels, a 2022 violent

14:09

as hell action film.

14:16

Have you seen this? Oh yes. I've seen it three

14:18

times. Wow. How

14:20

did that happen? You liked it? Uh,

14:22

what's funny is not really, but, uh,

14:27

but I'm well aware of the kind of person

14:29

that will love this movie. And so my

14:32

thing is when I know there's a movie

14:34

you're going to love, I want to watch it with you. Uh,

14:36

and so I've introduced it to friends

14:39

who I know would, would dig

14:41

it quite a bit. So I don't know that I would

14:43

have watched this had it not been for Jonathan

14:45

saying something about it several months ago. He

14:47

saw it. Uh, cause I, I

14:50

like action and I like one

14:52

man against many, I like so many

14:54

things about this movie, but it's so

14:57

gory. Like there's so much I put

14:59

in my tweet, there's passion of the Christ levels

15:02

of gore and some of this violence

15:05

and the way it's presented. I

15:07

was tackling at it. I

15:09

was not disgusted by it. Uh,

15:13

my perspectives are changing even as

15:15

an aging adult in terms of what I

15:17

do and don't get in, you know, enjoyment

15:19

from this movie is about, it's

15:22

based on an actual. Real

15:24

legendary finished sniper who

15:27

fought in the winter war and is

15:30

considered the deadliest sniper in

15:33

all of history, having more than 500 kills. Now

15:36

this is a loose adaptation. Uh,

15:39

so that's just saying he's a real person in real

15:41

life. Uh, so this is a fictional version

15:43

of him. Uh, and he's gold

15:45

miner now he's old wars over.

15:48

Uh, and this is just after world war two has ended and

15:51

we spend the first several minutes just silently

15:53

watching him mine for gold. One

15:55

of the things I love most about this movie is how silent

15:58

it is. There's so much. unspoken

16:01

action that is still riveting.

16:04

He finds a huge swath of

16:06

gold and I love, absolutely

16:09

love the actors. 30, 60 seconds

16:12

after he finds that gold, he takes you on

16:14

a dozen emotions. So

16:17

he sets out on horseback to go

16:19

sell his gold. When

16:22

he comes across some meandering

16:24

wayward Nazis, because

16:26

when the war was over and Germany lost,

16:29

not all of the Nazi soldiers decided

16:31

to go home and face the music. They

16:33

great many of them in fact, fled to other places

16:36

in the world. These Nazis

16:38

have three vehicles, a

16:40

troop carrying vehicle, a tank,

16:43

and then a covered vehicle with a bunch of women.

16:45

They are apparently raping,

16:49

they've kidnapped. And they come

16:51

across this one guy and find

16:53

his gold. And the rest of the movie

16:56

is them trying and failing to

16:58

kill this man. And it

17:01

gets to a couple of

17:03

points of comic action

17:05

where he's like, he's shot a couple of times.

17:07

And then there's a scene where they're shooting a 50 cal

17:10

at him and he's running away from it

17:12

and they managed to not hit him. But

17:16

aside from that, I was riveted

17:18

by this movie. I wanted this man

17:21

to kill every Nazi he saw and take

17:23

his gold to town and sell it by a boat.

17:27

I don't know if what I've said has encouraged you to

17:29

watch this movie or not, dear listener, but

17:32

I loved it. I loved it. Well,

17:35

in an attempt not to yuck anyone's yum,

17:38

I will just say that I

17:41

get the love for this movie. I totally

17:43

understand how fun it

17:46

is to watch. There's

17:48

a technical proficiency to what's done

17:51

in this movie that I think understands

17:54

how to appeal

17:56

to that part of human nature that's like...

18:00

It's both. It's a little bit revenge

18:02

fantasy. It's a little bit,

18:04

you know, one man against the world fantasy.

18:07

Like, you know, so

18:09

like I get what

18:11

it's doing. It's just what

18:14

it's doing is not interesting to

18:16

me or

18:20

particularly honorable either.

18:22

Like there's nothing like good

18:24

at the end of the day about the greed of,

18:27

you know, for the gold or whatever. And I

18:29

will say the end of my tweet about it the other

18:31

day was some of you will hate this. So

18:34

I knew instantly that this was not a movie

18:36

for everyone. But boy,

18:38

howdy, isn't a movie for me. All

18:42

right. Half the show is over and

18:44

we've yet to talk about the big recommend. Aaron,

18:47

let's talk about dial in the murder.

18:49

I'm fine. I'm fine. It's

18:51

just that you're seeing big. It's so huge. It's

18:54

a good rule, but this is bigger than rules. It's

18:56

bigger on the inside. Is it? Well,

18:59

at least the big recommend doesn't have an intricate

19:01

plot or anything that we have to go through.

19:05

My God, it's a straightforward. Dial

19:09

in for murder is a Hitchcock

19:11

movie originally filmed

19:13

to be shown in 3D. Hitchcock's

19:15

only 3D film that he made also his

19:18

first widescreen film stars

19:20

Raymond Land and Grace Kelly

19:23

as kind of this couple that

19:27

one of them is having an affair and the other one wants

19:29

to murder his wife. So

19:31

that's basically where we're at with them.

19:35

So we find this out pretty quickly. One of the things

19:37

I like about this movie is how quickly it disposes

19:39

with its set up in plot.

19:42

We immediately find out she's having an affair

19:44

with this crime writer who's

19:46

coming over and then immediately

19:49

find out he already knows about it and

19:52

is planning something. We

19:54

find out the details of a blackmail

19:57

thing that's going on where somebody

19:59

found her love letter from this man

20:01

and is blackmailing her. We find out very

20:04

quickly that it's the husband who did this, stole

20:06

her handbag, has been blackmailing

20:08

her just

20:10

to see what was going on and

20:13

is now in the midst of a murder plan. So

20:16

the first real big dialogue scene

20:18

we get, which comes pretty quickly, comes

20:20

between the husband and

20:23

this man he knew from college. It's

20:25

set up as if he's looking to buy a car. The

20:27

guy comes over and we very quickly

20:29

learn that he's actually bringing

20:32

this person over to be the murderer of

20:34

his wife. So we get him laying

20:36

out his perfect murder in this first

20:39

scene. He says exactly what's

20:41

going to go on. He subtly gets

20:44

this man's fingerprints on a letter by

20:46

dropping it and having the guy pick it up. And

20:48

then he doesn't pick it up with

20:51

his own hands after that, which is

20:53

really smart. You get the sense through this whole

20:55

thing that Tony is an intelligence

20:58

to be reckoned with. He thinks

21:01

of everything. He's going into

21:03

details on how all of this is

21:05

going to work. He

21:07

has, Swan

21:11

will have these. Swan,

21:13

by the way, is the name of his college friend who

21:15

he brings over. And there's

21:18

a lot of details in the plot about how

21:20

he's convinced Swan to do this.

21:23

Basically, he knows Swan is up to bad

21:25

things. And so he's kind of blackmailing him. He

21:27

also now has his fingerprints on the letter. So he's

21:30

really blackmailing him. He said, look, I can make you the

21:32

person that's been doing this so easily. And

21:36

so he's kind of got him in a place

21:38

where he can't really do much, but do this murder.

21:41

And so that's what he's going

21:44

to do. The key piece

21:46

of information, the

21:48

key piece of information, how

21:50

he's convinced Swan to do this.

21:53

Basically, he knows Swan is up to bad

21:55

things. And so he's kind of blackmailing him. He

21:57

also now has his fingerprints on the letter. So he do

21:59

you, really blackmailing him and said, look, I can make

22:01

you the person that's been doing this so easily.

22:06

And so he's kind of got him in a place

22:08

where he can't really do much but do this murder.

22:12

And so that's what he's going to do.

22:15

The key piece of information, the

22:18

key piece of information

22:20

for later is revealed

22:23

at the end

22:25

of this conversation, he's

22:27

going to leave her key under

22:30

the stair carpet for him to get in

22:32

and then replace it in her handbag

22:34

when they come back and discover it

22:37

later. So

22:39

that is how the guy's going to get

22:42

in. That becomes a very crucial part of

22:44

what's going on with this plot.

22:47

So the murder will

22:49

take place the next day. And

22:53

so this is all happening right away when

22:55

they are going, when he and Mark

22:57

is the writer's name, are going to go to this stag

22:59

party. Before they leave for

23:01

the party, there is a full conversation

23:04

about the perfect murder, which is another thing

23:06

I love that Hitchcock does is he always makes one of his characters

23:09

really interested in murder. Like their

23:11

job. So

23:14

Mark's job is literally to

23:16

plan perfect murders for crime novels,

23:19

actually crime television to

23:22

put that together. So you know,

23:24

the Tony, knowing he's

23:26

trying to commit the perfect murder is smirkingly

23:29

asking him, how do you do this? And

23:31

you know, playing along. So

23:34

they have this conversation about having

23:36

the perfect murder, where then

23:38

it turns to could you do the perfect murder?

23:41

And Mark says, no, I could never do it. In

23:43

real life, I'd make some stupid mistake and not know

23:45

until everyone was staring at me.

23:47

Shadowing happening right there. So

23:51

then they head out and

23:54

as they're heading out, he finds out

23:56

she wants to go see a movie. Well, she can't go see a

23:58

movie. She's supposed to be murdered tonight. Doesn't he

24:00

know this? So he

24:02

has to think on his feet. The movie is also

24:05

very good at showing us Tony improvised.

24:07

Like the idea of committing the perfect murder depends

24:10

on so many little details. And part

24:12

of it is you just can't plan

24:14

the future. You never know what's going to

24:16

happen. So the movie is also clear to show us that Tony

24:18

is good on his feet. He's good at improvising.

24:21

He understands how to,

24:23

you know, change when things need to change. So

24:26

he immediately shifts into gaslighting his

24:28

wife into staying home and,

24:31

you know, pulls the old, oh, well, you

24:33

know, if you don't want to do the clippings

24:35

because we're going out, we'll stay home too. We'll

24:38

ruin our day too. So you don't have to just

24:40

ruin yours or whatever. And so he

24:42

goes to call or whatever and she's like,

24:45

no, no, go ahead, go. And he's like, are

24:47

you sure? I just want this to be your decision.

24:50

Just a very gaslighting thing

24:53

he's doing, but it works. She stays home

24:55

to work on her clippings or

24:59

his clippings for him before

25:01

he goes. He brings over her scissors

25:05

so that she can do that

25:07

because she's going to need her scissors. As

25:10

if he would know, as if he would know. He

25:13

also hits a few other snags,

25:15

but improvises them perfectly as he's trying

25:18

to get the key place and different things happen. And

25:20

then he kisses her goodbye with, you

25:22

know, the most creepy goodbye my wife

25:25

that anybody has ever said in the history of good buying

25:27

their wife. So

25:29

then we get the murder scene. It's going to happen.

25:32

So he, part of his plan was

25:34

to call at a certain time

25:36

that the person he knew to murder

25:39

her would be there. He looks at his

25:41

watch and it's not quite that time, but wasn't

25:44

it the same time when I looked at my watch earlier? Oh

25:46

no, his watch has stopped. So

25:48

now he has to find out what time it is. Turns out it's

25:50

a little bit later than he thought

25:52

he was, but he just catches

25:55

in time as the guy was getting ready to leave,

25:57

thinking maybe something had changed. So

26:00

even though he's seven minutes late, it turns

26:02

out that it's going to work. So

26:06

there's a struggle and then the classic

26:09

shot of the movie, if you're watching

26:11

this live, you can see it in the artwork,

26:13

her hand reaching back for

26:15

anything, something to get this man, to

26:17

keep this man from killing her. She finds

26:20

the scissors and delivers

26:22

an absolute

26:25

strike to the back of the

26:27

killer and then he brings it home

26:30

by falling on the scissors and

26:36

becomes

26:42

that death blow, killing

26:44

him as he lands on it. Tony

26:47

quickly realizes, because he's

26:49

on the phone, by the way, he's the one that made the phone call

26:51

to bring her out there, he quickly realizes

26:53

he's got to answer this phone call now. He

26:56

has to account for why

26:58

he made this call and was listening

27:01

when this happened. So he answers the call and

27:03

immediately begins improvising a new

27:05

thing. He tells her not to call the police or

27:08

touch anything. His job has now

27:10

shifted as he gets back to her. His job

27:12

is now not to create the perfect murder, it's

27:15

to create the perfect framing

27:17

of his wife for the

27:19

murder and he immediately starts

27:22

doing things that will frame her. He

27:24

takes the key from Swan's pocket to

27:27

get rid of that, puts

27:29

that key in her purse, he

27:31

burns the actual murder weapon

27:34

and then puts her own hosiery

27:36

into the yard as if that were the

27:39

murder weapon and hides a second

27:41

one underneath the desk mat. Now I'll

27:44

just stop and say, nobody uses a desk

27:46

mat anymore. Everybody used to use

27:48

a desk mat. I remember this vividly

27:50

growing in the 80s. Do you remember this Jeremy?

27:52

Like people would have desk calendars,

27:55

desk mats, and it was like, it was part

27:57

to keep like when you were writing from like damaging.

28:00

the wood of the desk or whatever, or

28:03

doing office things. But now everybody's office things

28:05

are on a screen, so there are no more

28:07

desk mats. It's very sad. It's

28:09

a sad loss for all of us. So

28:12

anyhow, he puts one under the desk mat

28:15

and sets her up in that

28:17

way. The

28:19

next day, he tells her to say that she

28:21

didn't call because she thought her

28:24

husband would. She needs them to have

28:26

their stories straight so

28:28

that she seems like she's the one being sneaky.

28:32

During the investigation, which

28:34

by the way, we now call in the investigator, maybe

28:37

my favorite character in the movie. I love

28:40

this performance from John. John Williams is the

28:42

actor's name. Yeah, he's so

28:44

good in this. And it becomes

28:47

kind of a tete-a-tete intelligence battle

28:49

between the inspector and Tony

28:52

as they're going through this. But

28:54

during the investigation, the shoes

28:56

show that he very clearly came

28:59

through the door. He did not go through the yard.

29:01

They weren't muddy enough. He also had fibers

29:03

from the floor mat on his

29:06

shoes. It is clear he came through

29:08

the door. So how

29:10

did he get through the door? There

29:13

was no key on him, so he couldn't

29:16

have copied the key. And

29:19

so that is a no go. And

29:23

so we're now in for this battle of the minds. Tony tracks

29:27

that his plan for framing

29:29

his wife is working because he sees

29:31

that the inspector is now looking at

29:35

Mark's handwriting. He asked Mark to write something,

29:37

and so now I'm sure he knows the inspector

29:39

is comparing their handwriting. He

29:42

sends Tony out so

29:44

that he can talk to Mark and

29:47

Margo about their affair

29:49

and what was known. Margo

29:52

had denied having the letter stolen, but now she

29:54

will admit it. So she looks guilty

29:56

again for lying here. And

30:00

it's all coming together. His plan

30:02

is working perfectly. The stocking part

30:04

works to perfection. And the

30:06

inspector believes that Margo

30:09

did it. And so does

30:11

the judge and jury. Margo is

30:13

convicted. She is set to

30:16

die one in one

30:18

more day. And desperate

30:21

Mark comes to Tony and says,

30:23

we have to do something.

30:25

We have to figure out how

30:27

to get Margo free

30:30

from this. Here's what we need to do. You

30:32

need to admit to this crime and here's what

30:35

you did. And he has it pinned.

30:38

Absolutely pinned every detail

30:41

that he doesn't know that he has

30:43

it pinned. He thinks he's making

30:45

up a story. And what only Tony knows

30:47

is he's actually making up the

30:50

exact thing that happened. Of course,

30:52

Tony doesn't want to play along with this. And

30:54

then the inspector stops by right in the middle of this

30:57

and asks Tony or asks, yeah, Tony

31:00

about large amounts of cash that

31:02

he's been spending, asks him about an attache

31:04

case that he might

31:06

have. Um, Tony claims to have

31:08

misplaced the case, but Mark

31:11

is in the other room overhearing

31:13

this conversation. And in that room with

31:15

him is the case with

31:17

the money. And so now Mark is

31:20

going, Oh, he actually

31:23

did it to this thing that I

31:25

made up. So he goes

31:28

out and tells the inspector that

31:30

he found the case with

31:32

the intended to pay off for swan

31:34

for the murder. Um, and,

31:37

uh, Tony confesses

31:39

that the cash was Margo's blackmail

31:42

payment to swan, which he had

31:44

concealed to protect her. He

31:46

wanted to protect his wife. Hubbard

31:49

appears to accept this explanation

31:51

and Mark leaves angrily. Uh,

31:54

Hubbard discreetly swaps

31:57

his own raincoat with

31:59

Tony. And as soon as

32:02

Tony leaves, Hubbard uses

32:04

Tony's key to reenter

32:07

the flat, followed by Mark. So

32:10

Hubbard had previously discovered that the key

32:13

in Margot's handbag was

32:15

Swan's latch key.

32:18

Because they all look alike, he

32:20

thought he had replaced his wife's key,

32:23

but it was actually Swan's key.

32:25

So now Hubbard has to figure out who knew

32:27

that and how they knew that.

32:31

And so he deduces

32:34

that Swan had put the key back in its

32:37

hiding place after unlocking the door.

32:40

And so now, correctly

32:42

suspecting Tony of having conspired with Swan,

32:45

he has this ruse to trap him. So

32:48

they bring Margot from the prison

32:51

to the flat. Again, she's assigned to die tomorrow.

32:54

She tries unsuccessfully to unlock the door with

32:56

her key in her handbag, then enters through the

32:58

garden, proving that she did

33:00

not know the key was there

33:03

and had nothing to do with this. Hubbard

33:07

has Margot's handbag returned to the police station.

33:09

Tony retrieves it after discovering that he has no key.

33:12

The key from Margot's back does not work, so

33:14

he uses the hidden key to open the door,

33:17

demonstrating to all his guilt and

33:19

exonerating Margot. With his

33:22

escape routes blocked by Hubbard and

33:24

another policeman, Tony calmly makes

33:26

himself a drink and congratulates

33:28

Hubbard on a job well done.

33:31

And that is Dial M for Murder.

33:35

Jeremy, what did you think this time through? I

33:38

really like it. It's really good.

33:42

I don't think I have anything negative to say about

33:44

it. The only negative note I wrote was I think

33:47

maybe it just does a hair longer

33:49

than it needs to be, but not in a

33:51

way that feels too long.

33:56

It was already mentioned in the chat, but one of my notes is...

34:00

For me, the key scene

34:03

is the overhead shot when

34:05

Tony is walking swan through the

34:07

plan, through the apartment.

34:10

And it's a very unique

34:13

perspective in terms of the

34:15

kind of films we see today and how they would

34:18

shoot a murder mystery. And

34:21

it's extended. It goes on for quite a while. And

34:23

I was really struck by that. But

34:27

yeah, it's fantastic. I think the detective

34:29

guy steals the show. I think the guy

34:31

that plays Tony is incredible. I feel

34:33

a little bad for Grace Kelly because she

34:35

isn't really given a lot to do here other than

34:39

get murdered. But

34:43

she's still great. I think she still gives a

34:45

great performance. I love the intimacy. You

34:47

can tell it was a stage play first. But

34:52

in doing some research, Hitchcock

34:54

went out of his way to try and keep this

34:57

as confined to that apartment

34:59

as possible to give you a feeling

35:01

of claustrophobia. The scissors

35:04

scene is shockingly

35:08

visceral when it goes in further

35:11

into his back when he hits the floor. And

35:13

I read that Hitchcock was fairly well obsessed

35:16

with the stabbing of the scissors and

35:18

spent many years... He knew it was the money shot.

35:21

He knew it was the money shot. And he spent a lot

35:23

of time getting that right. He stopped eating.

35:26

He had anxiety trying to get that right.

35:29

I do want to step out of talking about the film because my

35:32

most important note about this film, at the

35:34

top of my page, the closed captions

35:36

for this film are among the worst I've ever seen

35:38

in my entire life. About

35:41

half the dialogue is missing entirely.

35:44

If I were completely deaf, I would

35:46

have missed 35, 40% of this dialogue,

35:48

and I wouldn't have known

35:52

it. If I was partially deaf, I was

35:54

able to hear most of it. If

35:57

Tony would say three sentences, only two

35:59

of them would show up. up on the screen. So

36:01

that was infuriating. And I feel like somewhere

36:04

we've got to be doing better than that. I feel like you could

36:07

even put AI on the job. These

36:09

captions have to be 50 years old. I

36:13

don't know why somebody new can't get to them. I loved

36:16

the line when he says, I

36:19

was going to pawn you off with a different port. Let's

36:21

see what we have here. It's

36:25

kind of wild to me that the

36:27

version I walked on Amazon

36:29

is struck from a

36:31

film print that has like a little

36:34

filament

36:36

hair kind of thing at the bottom of the picture

36:39

for like 20-25 minutes.

36:41

I love stuff like that because it just shows

36:44

me that I'm watching actual. It's

36:47

also the

36:49

flat print that most people watch, I

36:52

believe is the right eye print

36:54

from the 3D. Another

36:57

interesting thing to think about when you're watching the flat print

36:59

is you're actually watching a little bit

37:01

of a shifted view

37:04

of what Hitchcock intended. Because

37:06

if he shot it in 3D for both

37:09

eyes, then you watching one of

37:11

those eyes shifts it a little bit to

37:13

that side or the perspective a little

37:15

bit different. I

37:17

love how Tony's plan starts to go wrong

37:20

right from the start. Having a conversation

37:22

with the crime writer who says these

37:24

perfect crimes always have variables

37:27

that make them go wrong.

37:29

From the moment he's trying

37:31

to hide or get her key and

37:33

he can't even get her key properly but that's

37:35

after she's like I'm going to go to the movies and he's like no.

37:38

He undoes himself

37:41

with the scissors which is his ploy that ultimately

37:43

gets her to stay home and be murdered.

37:46

But

37:47

right from the start he

37:49

should have

37:50

known and not gone through with it.

37:54

He should have realized this is all going on.

37:56

I've had six mistakes and it's only been 20 minutes

37:58

so far. It's

38:00

like the key to his character. He just

38:02

thinks he can improvise all of this

38:05

and make it work. I mean he doesn't even

38:07

approach the murderer he wants to hire

38:10

until the night before. Right. That's

38:12

how confident he is. He's going to convince this

38:14

dude. Oh man. Well, and

38:16

there's so many of those little touches. He

38:19

knows when the inspector – he

38:21

knows the inspector knows that he knew this

38:23

person in college. He

38:26

knows and so he immediately

38:28

admits it and goes and even gets

38:30

the picture and is like, oh, this is the guy.

38:33

That stuff is so brilliant

38:35

on a character level. I think

38:37

the raincoat thing is the

38:40

only plot convenience. Like if I were making

38:42

a sin show of this movie, I would hammer

38:45

the fact that those two guys just happen

38:47

to have raincoats that look nearly identical.

38:51

Another thing I wanted to point out that is kind of like

38:53

just an observation.

38:55

Let Detective illegally

38:57

enter their apartment before

39:00

he solves the murder. Like

39:03

that's breaking and entering even though he uses

39:06

the key. That's hella

39:08

illegal and a good attorney is

39:11

going to probably get Tony off

39:13

on this charge. Well, and maybe that's what happens.

39:16

We don't know. At least

39:18

make a sequel. Dial T

39:21

for trial. Dial

39:24

A for acquittal. I don't

39:26

understand the decision to strangle her.

39:29

Like I feel like if

39:31

I have a look at murder in an academic

39:33

way, strangling

39:35

her with nylons or whatever he uses

39:38

is about the riskiest way

39:40

to kill this person. Come out

39:42

from behind those curtains with a knife

39:44

and everything goes according

39:46

to plan because

39:48

strangulation takes several

39:51

minutes sometimes to complete. It just

39:53

seems like a really dumb way to try and murder someone,

39:55

especially when it's premeditated. But Jeremy,

39:58

if he's not strangling her, we don't get to see him.

39:59

him waiting for her to put the phone down

40:02

fun where he's like, you know, do

40:04

I go now? Because

40:08

he half goes for it a couple times

40:10

I just That is what ultimately

40:13

undoes all of it really not all

40:15

of Tony's mistakes I think he could have skated

40:17

by if the murderer had chosen

40:22

Anything with a sharp blade an

40:24

explosive projectile from a battle

40:27

bot Well, it has to the only

40:30

prerequisite is that it has to

40:33

be something he would have on him

40:36

because he is supposed to have been Surprised

40:38

by her like he didn't come there to murder

40:40

her. So it yeah, it has to be like a In

40:43

the moment kind of thing entering still gonna have

40:45

a switchblade on him, right? Exactly. Yeah.

40:48

No. Yeah blades fine Yeah, no this movie

40:50

rules. I don't really have anything negative to say despite

40:52

the five or six negative things I had to say It's

40:55

really good. I love

40:57

one of my favorite things is looking for Hitchcock

41:00

shots And the one I noticed this time and there

41:02

are many in this you already mentioned the overhead Shot

41:05

is a really fun one

41:08

The he is setting up the affair between

41:11

Mark and Margot and this is

41:13

happening in their apartment and they

41:16

hear Tony coming We cut to

41:18

a shot of the door to see him

41:20

come in and we hearing his footsteps

41:22

approach and we see their shadows Separate

41:26

opposite sides of the room. That's

41:28

just such a subtle interesting

41:30

Like these lovers don't want to be found

41:32

out so they're gonna move to opposite sides

41:35

of the room Yeah, and it's just it's

41:37

just their shadows. It's just like the he

41:39

tells story with the visuals

41:42

You know, it's just I I love that kind of

41:45

stuff. So I wanted to mention that was the one I saw

41:47

this time Watching through

41:49

this it's also wild to me that their

41:51

affair is largely through post like

41:54

he was in London a year prior I

41:56

assume they slept together or hugged something

42:00

America and that their affair

42:02

from there is entirely letters. It's

42:04

all letters. It's wild. So

42:09

I also want to mention a couple of the things I

42:12

did get a chance last year. Alamo

42:15

Drafthouse showed this in the original

42:17

3D print and I did get a

42:19

chance to see this in 3D from getting

42:23

it in 3D when it was released originally. No,

42:26

not not for there were a couple showings,

42:28

but not as like a big, you know, release

42:31

kind of thing. Crazy. But but I did

42:34

get a chance to see the 3D print of this

42:36

and if per chance you

42:39

ever get a chance to do that, I highly recommend

42:41

it. It's clear Hitchcock was using

42:44

you'll notice in this even a lot of the low angles

42:47

and like there'll be lamps, you know

42:49

in between like the characters and the camera

42:52

and he would use those foreground

42:54

things in a 3D space to

42:57

create like he would like with

42:59

two characters could be talking and they're kind of on the same page

43:02

and then when they have dissension, he will

43:04

shift the camera in the foreground object will

43:06

be between them almost like dividing

43:09

them during, you know,

43:11

a shift in the conversation. He makes some

43:13

really interesting decisions. Also that

43:15

classic shot with her reaching back in

43:18

3D is so powerful. So

43:21

yeah, there's a lot of really

43:23

good stuff in the 3D print.

43:25

I wanted to mention that was that even though he

43:27

set all that up, he apparently

43:30

knew the whole time. It was never actually

43:32

going to end up being a 3D film like he

43:34

saw the writing on the wall. Yeah,

43:37

still put all that effort and

43:39

thought into it. Lee had

43:41

an argument about the night dress.

43:44

She was wearing to go answer the phone and

43:47

he was like, well, what would you be wearing? She was like,

43:49

I'd just be wearing, you know, this flip

43:51

cover or whatever it was. I don't know what she said.

43:53

Yeah, yeah, this night gown and he

43:56

said, okay. And then I guess from then

43:58

on let Grace Kelly make all her. wardrobe

44:00

decisions, which is not the Hitchcock

44:02

I have read it. Like he was so overly

44:05

like I even know in this movie, he wanted her wardrobe

44:07

to go from bright colors to

44:09

dark colors by the end. Like there's a progression

44:12

of the colors of her outfits to

44:14

the end of this movie. So I know he was detailed about

44:16

that kind of stuff, but yes, he thought

44:19

actors were cattle. They were just, you know,

44:21

tools for him to use. But,

44:25

but yeah, he, he definitely had

44:27

a brilliant eye for visual. I wanted Cary

44:29

Grant for this. They did,

44:31

the studio did, but I don't know that Hitchcock did.

44:34

But it'd be fascinating to be able to watch this movie with

44:36

Cary Grant's performance because he's nothing like

44:39

the actor that plays Tony, even though

44:41

I still think he could have played this character

44:43

really well. I think he could have too. I don't think

44:45

he or his agents wanted

44:47

him to be a villain. Oh, that's

44:50

probably it. I think that's probably

44:52

why they, they didn't go that route. That

44:54

carries through today where The Rock won't

44:56

let himself get beat up in the movie. Yeah. There you go.

45:00

The Anthony Dawson played

45:03

Swan in both the broad

45:07

in both the play and in the

45:09

movie. And that's true for the inspector as well.

45:12

Both John Williams and Anthony Dawson

45:14

were in the play version of this before

45:16

being in the movie version of this. I thought that was interesting. One

45:20

of my favorite lines in this movie is the

45:22

same reason a donkey always goes forwards towards

45:24

the carrot. And then, and then

45:26

Swan goes, tell me about the carrot. Yeah,

45:31

that's great. It's just

45:33

a great way to do that. This

45:36

just couple of thoughts, interesting thoughts. The

45:40

Hitchcock is famous for doing wrong man

45:42

movies where the wrong person is suspected

45:46

of doing something bad. That's a lot of

45:48

his movies fall in this category. This is his only

45:50

wrong woman movie where

45:52

it's the woman who's suspected of murder that

45:55

didn't actually do it. So

45:57

that was an interesting point.

46:00

And then it's really

46:03

similar to Strangers on a Train, about

46:05

a tennis star and a murder. And

46:08

there is even a subset of people

46:10

who like to believe that this is a sequel to Strangers

46:13

on a Train. After

46:15

a few years of them being married, he

46:18

decides he does want to murder her. So

46:22

yeah, I thought that was fun

46:24

too. So there you go, that's my dial-in for

46:26

murder stuff. I do think we need

46:29

to avoid for at least

46:31

six weeks movies about murderous

46:33

tennis players. It's all I

46:35

got, man. It's all I got. All

46:38

right, so I guess it's time then for the super secret

46:41

double

46:41

feature. How

46:43

often do you go to the pantry, the fridge, your

46:45

cabinet, only to realize that you forgot

46:47

to stock your favorite item? You

46:49

hate to see that there is nothing to see

46:52

and sure, you could go to the

46:53

store, but why do that when you can

46:55

have your favorite beverages delivered

46:57

to your door? Drizzly is the

47:00

go-to app for drink delivery

47:02

for a reason. They've got all the flavors.

47:05

They've got the smoky scotches and the junipery gins

47:07

and the vodka num-nums. I don't know

47:09

what that means. I just made the num-num part up. But

47:12

anyways, Drizzly is designed for you. You

47:14

don't have to be a liquor enthusiast.

47:16

You could be a novice mixologist.

47:17

Just check it out because no matter

47:19

the mood, they have something for

47:22

you. You can download the Drizzly

47:24

app or you can go to drizzly.com. That's

47:27

D-R-I-Z-L-Y.com. And,

47:30

you know, raise a glass of whatever you

47:32

want to, whatever you want to raise it to. You've

47:35

got to be over 21 and it's not available

47:37

in all locations, but go check it out. Okay,

47:39

on to the show.

47:42

The vewy, vewy quiet secret.

47:44

What secret? A dirty little secret.

47:47

I'll tell you something I've never told anyone.

47:51

Well, I am surprised not

47:53

to have seen any of the three movies I wrote down in

47:55

the chat yet. The first one I

47:57

decided not to choose is Rear Window. Very

48:01

similar vibe,

48:03

lots of long takes with no

48:05

dialogue, great failing, killing

48:08

his wife, not getting away with it. It

48:11

felt a little too on the nose, a

48:13

little too easy. And

48:16

I thought long and hard about this movie

48:18

none of you have probably seen called The Burnt

48:20

Orange Heresy that has Donald

48:22

Sutherland and Mick Jagger in it. Because

48:26

that is

48:26

about

48:27

a plot to commit a perfect

48:30

crime, murder ends up being involved. But

48:33

the reason I wanted to choose it is the

48:36

The Burnt Orange Heresy is not great. I

48:38

was fairly riveted by the story, but it's

48:41

like a 50 on Rotten Tomatoes. But the last

48:43

shot, the very last shot is amazing.

48:46

And you have to sit through the

48:48

whole thing to get any of it.

48:52

And that last shot is when the

48:55

main character realizes he's not

48:57

gotten away with his perfect crime, and

48:59

the movie ends just like this

49:01

one. But I decided to go with

49:04

something that I thought more people would predict because

49:06

it was a little very on the nose, but

49:08

a very different feel of a movie, and that's murder

49:10

by numbers. Young

49:13

Ryan Gosling conspires

49:16

with a fellow classmate to commit

49:18

a perfect murder and get away with it because they believe

49:20

they are smarter than everyone. Sandra

49:23

Bullock ends up being the cop who is assigned

49:26

to the case. She almost

49:29

instantly suspects one of those kids, even

49:31

though they both have alibis. And it's

49:33

all about how the story plays

49:36

out and how

49:38

he will or won't get away with it. I

49:41

just think it would be a very interesting, tonally different,

49:44

topically almost identical

49:46

double feature, somebody trying to get

49:48

away with a perfect murder and a

49:51

smarter than them detective. You

49:54

should have gone with the movie called A Perfect

49:56

Murderer that has nothing to do with dial-M

49:58

for murder at all. However, what's

50:01

funny is I've seen a perfect murder more recently

50:03

than dial M. So when I was watching dial

50:05

M and realized that the he

50:07

wasn't going to make her lover be the murderer,

50:10

I was like, Oh, yeah, that's something that Michael Douglas

50:12

movie came up with. That's right. Not in

50:14

the original and I'm not sure adds anything to

50:17

the second one. No. All

50:20

right. Well, now we have

50:22

to do next week's homework. Yeah. If

50:25

I have done my math correctly, uh,

50:28

this episode that we record

50:30

next week on the 24th will

50:32

release on Halloween

50:34

Eve, Monday, the 30th. That will be the last

50:38

October episode of recotopia.

50:40

So I am sticking with the murder

50:42

horror kind of thing. I'm

50:45

going to have us revisit a movie I haven't seen in

50:48

two years. 2020 is the invisible

50:51

man, uh, with Elizabeth Moss.

50:54

And, um, if you haven't seen it, I think

50:57

it's incredible, but I have forgotten enough of

50:59

it that I'm excited to go back. Uh,

51:01

it is not simply an invisible man story.

51:03

There is a lot of great subtext

51:06

regarding what women have to go

51:08

through in this country, which you'll hear us talk a little bit

51:10

more about in the outtakes, um, and

51:13

how it differs from what men have to go through, uh,

51:15

in this country. So, uh, let's

51:17

check this out. Now I usually write

51:19

down where you can see this. Okay. It

51:23

is on peacock right now. Uh,

51:25

and it's also on one of the movie channels. So I'm getting

51:28

Hulu. If you have a premium subscription, you can watch

51:30

it there. Um, but it is

51:32

on Fubo TV as

51:35

well. Uh, and I hope that you guys will

51:37

check it out and enjoy it. I can't wait to talk about

51:40

the invisible man. Yeah,

51:42

that's going to be fun. I haven't seen it since, uh, it came

51:44

out a couple of years ago either, and I'm excited to revisit

51:47

it as well. Yeah. All

51:49

right, everybody. I think that's probably going to do it for this week's show.

51:51

Thank you to the chat for coming out and weighing

51:53

in and helping us know the microphone levels might have

51:55

been off. Uh, we value your

51:58

input and we love seeing your avatar. every

52:00

week. It's like we're

52:02

part of a family. Next

52:05

week's episode, your homework is the Invisible Man.

52:08

For Aaron Dicer, this is Jeremy Scott. We'll

52:10

see you next time.

52:11

Bye guys!

52:16

Be a part of the live show by being a

52:18

member of the SIN Club at patreon at patreon.com

52:21

slash CinemaSins. Chat with us

52:23

on the CinemaSins Discord at discord.gg

52:26

slash CinemaSins or CinemaSins Twitter

52:28

at CinemaSins and email any comments

52:30

or questions to rekhatopia at cinema

52:33

sins dot com that's R-E-C-O-T-O-P-I-A

52:36

at CinemaSins dot com. Uh

52:46

oh, you're too quiet. I've got to turn you up. Speak again.

52:48

Again.

52:50

Britney Spears has this memoir coming

52:52

out, right? Like I think in

52:55

a week or so. I remember reading

52:57

headlines five, six months ago that

53:00

there were A-listers in

53:03

the entertainment industry that were privately

53:05

threatening Britney with lawsuits over

53:08

what they feared the book would contain, including

53:10

people like Timberlake. I don't

53:12

know if any of that's true. Rumors.

53:15

Yes, now that the book is about to come out, excerpts

53:19

are leaking and TMZ

53:21

has a headline today that says, Britney

53:24

says Justin Timberlake got her pregnant

53:26

and then they had an abortion. The article

53:28

says they were in love, they

53:31

thought they were going to be together forever, but they thought 19 was

53:33

too young to have a baby and so after some emotional

53:35

conversations they agreed together to have an abortion.

53:39

I'm frustrated with the phrasing of TMZ

53:42

saying Timberlake got her

53:45

pregnant as though

53:47

he tricked her.

53:49

Right.

53:50

You know what I'm saying? Like it's a more scandalous

53:52

headline, so I understand why an outlet like TMZ

53:54

would run with that, but we're going to see all kinds

53:57

of this. Take something that sounds juicy,

53:59

but 19... 19-year-olds have unprotected

54:01

sex and realize they're too young for a family

54:04

all the time in this country, at least in states

54:06

where it's not illegal. And

54:11

obviously there are cases of assault.

54:13

Those don't count. Generally,

54:16

it takes two people for pregnancy

54:18

to occur, is what I'm saying. I

54:20

feel like the headline should have been, we

54:22

got pregnant when we were together and

54:25

then had an abort. Instead, it's like Justin

54:27

did an act, like he took an act

54:30

and she was just a bystander.

54:33

It's also a weird one too because there

54:35

is a – and not to even address any of the various

54:42

and nuanced take on life

54:45

and abortion and all of those things,

54:47

but there's a very large subsegment

54:52

of the country that would find it scandalous enough

54:54

that abortion was had. You know what I mean?

54:57

Like it's a weird – like what are you doing by amping up

55:00

something that's already – Already, yeah. And

55:02

again, I'm

55:04

pretty much

55:05

going to defend Britney Spears for

55:07

most things that come up. I think

55:09

that conservatorship was pretty evil.

55:12

Yeah, sounds pretty bad. I think she probably

55:15

could stand to still have some assistance

55:17

in areas, but

55:20

all I am observing is what she puts out

55:23

on the internet and I'm not observing it. I'm just

55:25

reading headlines about it. Right.

55:28

But my point is I'm just talking

55:30

about language. I'm not really trying to talk about

55:32

like who's to blame for pregnancy. I mean I was

55:37

taught there's like a

55:39

male sperm and a female egg and

55:41

they kind of have to work in tandem, but

55:45

just the language of it all, that we're going to pull these

55:47

tidbits as her book

55:49

comes out and we're going to make the headlines sound

55:52

three, four times

55:54

more scandalous than it is because when you read the

55:56

article it sounds like – against

56:00

abortion, that's fine. I'm not trying to talk about

56:02

your more. I'm just saying it sounds like

56:05

two young people came to

56:07

a tough decision together after

56:10

an accidental pregnancy. It's

56:12

almost wholesome. And

56:15

we're making it out to be this,

56:17

yeah, he knocked her up. Now, granted, I

56:19

also think Timberlake,

56:20

you know, is going to

56:23

face some backlash when this book comes out for

56:26

how he handled their breakup and, you know, having

56:28

a look-alike in this video called Cry Me

56:30

a River that made, you know, people

56:33

mad at her as though she had cheated on

56:35

him, which wasn't really known. And it's complicated.

56:38

It's murky. All of life is

56:40

murky, Aaron. You're absolutely

56:43

right, in my opinion, that

56:46

the choice to say Justin Timberlake got

56:48

her pregnant instead of Justin

56:51

and Brittany got pregnant together is

56:55

a purposeful, inflammatory

56:58

choice. And it's – I

57:01

mean, it's the tip of the iceberg though, right, Jeremy? I mean,

57:03

like, this happens every day with headline

57:06

articles now where it's just like clicks

57:08

rule all. How do you get them clicks,

57:10

you know? And to be fair, probably more

57:12

often than not,

57:15

you know, targets women unfairly than it does men.

57:18

Sure. Fuck. Yeah,

57:21

you know, I mean, DiCaprio's gotten to the point where

57:23

he catches some flack now, but for the most part,

57:26

Hollywood A-list men can date whoever they want,

57:28

and Hollywood A-list women date more than

57:30

one guy, and they're loose, or they're easy.

57:33

Right. All sorts of pejoratives. Yeah.

57:35

Yeah.

57:36

Yeah. The English

57:38

language man. We're persuaded by it every day in subtle ways

57:40

we don't realize. I mean, I'm trying to realize

57:43

them. I'm trying to bring them to light.

57:44

I'm crusading. No, that's a bad choice.

57:49

One level or another, I think language choices

57:52

are important. I

57:54

always have, you know,

57:56

from a very early age when I was taught that certain

57:59

words were bad words.

57:59

to say, I

58:01

was

58:04

also taught that substitutions

58:06

for those words were just as bad. Like

58:08

this idea that like, the

58:11

word you're saying is a reflection

58:13

of the intent you have. When your intent is

58:15

to harm someone by using

58:18

a foul word or whatever, it doesn't matter

58:20

if you say freak you. Like

58:23

it's the intent. Like bull crap

58:25

was not allowed in my house. Right.

58:27

You know what I mean? Now I think it was a little

58:30

bit more rules-based, at least when I was young.

58:34

But then as I was older, I remember being taught that

58:36

it's really not the word you're saying. From

58:38

a religious standpoint, I was taught it's what's in

58:40

your heart. It's what God can

58:42

see that. And so it doesn't really matter what comes out of your

58:45

mouth. But even if you strip religion

58:47

away from it, I still think that applies.

58:50

It doesn't really matter.

58:52

I'm fascinated by language. It doesn't really matter what word

58:54

you use. It's the

58:56

meaning behind it. Not using your intent. Because

58:59

some words that are bad now in 100

59:01

years, they're not going to be bad. And some

59:03

words that are fine now in 100 years, they're

59:06

going to be bad words. It

59:08

doesn't even take 100 years. It doesn't

59:10

even take 100 years. And

59:14

that's why the sensitivity of language

59:16

is so crucial

59:19

because you want to be

59:22

the kind of person who doesn't use

59:24

language that will harm someone

59:26

else. And who

59:29

gets to decide that? Well, people get to

59:31

kind of decide what language harms them. And

59:34

especially with somebody outside of

59:36

your being, your group.

59:39

I don't know what it's like to be a woman. So

59:41

if a woman tells me this language hurts me,

59:44

I'm going to go, I'm going to listen to you and I'm going

59:46

to try not to use that language. But

59:49

then there's this other thing of it's

59:52

not the words themselves either. And

59:55

I listen to a podcast called

59:59

Oh, I'm going to forget the name of the... the podcast, but

1:00:02

the host is a black man and he will often talk

1:00:04

about words that white people can't

1:00:06

say, that black people can say and

1:00:08

those kinds of things. And he did an

1:00:10

episode recently on how he feels

1:00:13

that the black community has overstigmatized

1:00:16

some of those words for the white community

1:00:18

in that they can't have conversations about

1:00:21

those words. Now, like you can't even in a

1:00:23

conversation say

1:00:25

the word or it means something. Like people

1:00:27

will be called out for saying a word during a,

1:00:30

like an intellectual conversation about

1:00:32

language. And, you know, so

1:00:34

he was talking about, we have to be, again,

1:00:37

this is, this is his words and I'd love for you

1:00:39

to check out his podcast, but he was talking about

1:00:42

the idea that we have to be creatures

1:00:44

of logic and reason and understand the intent

1:00:47

does play a role in the words

1:00:49

that are said. Having said that, I'm never going

1:00:51

to say those words. You know what I mean? Like there's

1:00:54

no need for me to, why do I want to? You

1:00:56

know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's one of

1:00:58

those things where it's, you know,

1:01:00

just languages like that.

1:01:02

You also just reminded me, not language, but I

1:01:05

read a thread on Reddit last

1:01:07

week about, it was posted by a woman whose

1:01:10

husband

1:01:12

is a contortionist

1:01:14

and is a slight, you

1:01:16

know, thin, small

1:01:19

man and had been hired

1:01:21

at a haunted house type thing to do

1:01:25

weird crap with his body to freak people

1:01:28

out dressed as the girl from

1:01:30

the room. And

1:01:33

within three days, he was in tears with

1:01:35

the way people were treating him because

1:01:37

they thought he was a woman. Like, uh,

1:01:40

people asking him to show his breasts and

1:01:42

people grabbing his ass and

1:01:45

just gave him this stark

1:01:48

experience of what women have

1:01:50

to deal with on a daily basis

1:01:53

in terms of how society objectifies

1:01:55

them. Um, and

1:01:57

man, it was hard to read. Like he was planning to quit.

1:03:59

That whole conversation I think is valuable

1:04:02

because the perspectives and the

1:04:04

hurt and the harm change.

1:04:06

And you know, there are movies

1:04:10

way too recently that have blackface

1:04:12

in them as comedy, right? Like it's just,

1:04:15

it's something that was done for entertainment.

1:04:18

And I genuinely believe that

1:04:20

some of those people thought they

1:04:22

were respecting a culture and didn't

1:04:24

realize that they were mocking

1:04:26

a culture. Like I genuinely believe

1:04:29

that some people thought that, but that's because

1:04:31

of their limited perspective, right? Ignorance.

1:04:33

Yeah, the ignorance. And that's the

1:04:36

idea is like, where am I ignorant? How

1:04:38

can I flush that out

1:04:40

of me? How can I really listen to

1:04:42

everybody's perspective? And when somebody says,

1:04:45

this hurts me, just go, cool, I

1:04:47

won't do it. Like it's, you know. Right.

1:04:49

It's just, I mean, I think it's either ignorance

1:04:51

or it's hubris, right? You just, you sure? Well,

1:04:55

sometimes it's an evil intent.

1:04:57

Like I'm not saying it's always

1:04:59

one of those things. Sometimes it's malevolent,

1:05:03

but… I mean Spike Lee made a movie

1:05:05

in the late 90s, early aughts with

1:05:08

two white characters in blackface. And

1:05:11

I'm like, I'm not going to tell Spike Lee what he can do

1:05:13

and can't do when it comes to this kind of… Well, Robert

1:05:15

Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder is making

1:05:18

a point about this very thing. Yes. And

1:05:21

it is also now under the

1:05:23

microscope, and it's like, well, that's like

1:05:25

saying a word in a conversation. Like you know

1:05:27

what I mean? Like it's, see, there's

1:05:29

this rule, this guy on Twitter, Pope had. I

1:05:32

don't know if you ever followed him. No. He's

1:05:34

on Blue Sky now too. He's a lawyer and comments

1:05:36

on all the national legal stuff. He's really

1:05:38

smart and funny. But he created

1:05:41

a law that I don't agree with. And

1:05:43

it's called the law – this is vulgar. It's

1:05:46

the goat fucking law. And basically,

1:05:48

if you fuck a goat to

1:05:52

make fun of people who fuck goats, you

1:05:54

still fuck a goat.

1:05:57

And so if you apply that

1:05:59

law to… Tropic Thunder, then Robert

1:06:01

Downey Jr. is morally wrong because

1:06:04

even though he was making a joke, he still

1:06:06

literally did the thing. I

1:06:08

don't agree with that because

1:06:10

that movie is very clearly taking

1:06:13

down that kind of thing. So

1:06:17

yeah, I mean, Twitter and Blue Sky throws

1:06:19

that rule around whenever he's involved in

1:06:21

the conversation. Like it's an actual

1:06:24

law of the universe and it drives me insane.

1:06:27

I just hear Jonathan going through these

1:06:29

outgangs just like, what

1:06:32

is this podcast?

1:06:33

Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield is

1:06:35

becoming Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield, focusing

1:06:38

on whole house, same doctors, same

1:06:40

hospitals, the same us. We are

1:06:42

Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield. New

1:06:44

name, same commitment to you. Never

1:06:47

go it alone. That's our anthem. But

1:06:49

he created a law that I

1:06:51

don't agree with and it's called the law,

1:06:53

this is vulgar, it's the goat fucking law. And

1:06:56

basically, if you fuck a goat

1:07:00

to

1:07:01

make fun of people who fuck goats, you

1:07:03

still fuck a goat. And

1:07:07

so if you apply that law to Tropic Thunder,

1:07:10

then Robert Downey Jr. is morally wrong

1:07:12

because even though he was making a joke, he still

1:07:15

literally did the thing. I

1:07:17

don't agree with that because

1:07:19

that movie is very clearly taking

1:07:23

down that kind of thing. Right. So

1:07:26

yeah, I mean, Twitter and Blue Sky throws

1:07:28

that rule around whenever he's involved in the

1:07:30

conversation. Like it's an actual

1:07:33

law of the universe and it drives me insane.

1:07:37

I just hear Jonathan going through these outgangs

1:07:39

just like, what is this podcast?

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