0:00

Good thing Google wasn't in charge of, uh,

0:02

best picture years and stuff like that, or

0:04

else on the waterfront would have been the

0:06

correct answer. According. Welcome

0:10

to record topia, a happy home

0:12

for recommended movies, TV shows, music,

0:14

video games, foodstuffs, and more from

0:16

three people. You can definitely trust

0:19

trustability varies by region. No guarantees

0:21

implied. And

0:36

now here are your hosts, Chris Atkinson, Jeremy

0:38

Scott, and Aaron Dicer. Come on there.

0:40

A Jewish delicacy before Toby eats it.

0:42

I'm retaining water for your information. You

0:45

and the grand coulee dam. Come on. You don't know what

0:47

you're missing. I'm quite familiar with her. I love it. Thank

0:49

you. Hello

0:51

everybody. It's episode one,

0:54

one, three of record topia. I

0:56

am Chris Atkinson joined by Aaron

0:58

Dicer. Hidily ho, Sinnerino's.

1:02

And, uh, by, and, uh,

1:04

also joined by Jeremy Scott, who

1:06

is having his last episode for

1:08

a while on this one.

1:11

Yeah. Uh,

1:13

he's going to have the six months sabbatical and I'm going to

1:15

tell you, I recommend it. Maybe

1:21

it'll cure his tired blood. Maybe it

1:23

will. Maybe it will. Um, uh,

1:26

uh, uh, today's big

1:28

recommend is quiz show about

1:30

time, right? 30 years, 30 years. This

1:33

movie has been out and it was a

1:36

best picture nominee, but it's about time. We

1:38

talked about it here on the podcast. Um,

1:41

but, uh, does anybody have, well, we have to

1:43

kind of acknowledge chat too. It's been a weird

1:45

day. Uh, acknowledge chat as

1:47

well. Thanks for coming out and talking

1:49

and watching us talk about movies on

1:51

a Tuesday. We appreciate you very much

1:54

for coming out. Um, all right. Does

1:56

anybody have any small recommends? It's

1:58

no big deal. It's so

2:01

small and light. It's small, it's tiny,

2:03

it's petite, it's weed. Jeremy does. Jeremy

2:06

does. My brother's family came to

2:08

town this weekend and whenever

2:10

my brother's family comes to town we try it

2:12

and carve out some time to

2:14

watch movies. We

2:17

watched two movies. One was

2:19

Hundreds of Beavers, which you'll hear a

2:21

little bit more about later in the show and

2:23

I highly recommend. But then the second

2:26

we watched, My Sister-in-Law recommended The Personal

2:28

History of David Copperfield, which is a

2:30

movie that I was not even

2:32

barely aware of. This

2:35

is because it came out in 2020 right

2:37

in the heart of the beginning of the

2:39

pandemic and was just

2:41

buried by all the other news in the world.

2:45

This is Dev Patel at his

2:49

very best. It

2:51

is charming, whimsical, hilarious,

2:53

devastating, and it's Armando Iannucci,

2:56

which I didn't know until

2:58

I was done. My

3:00

brother and I were talking about how

3:03

the David Copperfield film uses

3:06

actors of whatever race they

3:09

want in the roles and it's not

3:11

about that, it's about

3:13

the best actor for the role. I

3:16

go, hey, we just talked about Death

3:18

of Stalin on our podcast and how

3:20

he let people use whatever their accent

3:22

was. Steve Buscemi's playing this Russian guy,

3:24

but he just sounds like Steve Buscemi.

3:27

Not knowing they're both Iannucci films

3:29

while I'm having this conversation. So

3:33

Iannucci is now an official friend of the show. I

3:36

would say Peter

3:39

Capaldi and Hugh Laurie almost steal

3:41

the show in this movie. They're

3:44

both always great, but

3:47

I just wish this movie had a

3:49

wider audience because it's fantastic and it

3:52

just got completely pushed

3:55

aside by the events of the world.

3:57

Just on Hulu if you're vaguely interested.

4:00

I highly recommend it. I think

4:02

it would be a good time had by all. There you go.

4:04

I never saw this. I remember when

4:06

it came out and

4:08

I was surprised to see Armando Iannucci was

4:10

a part of it. Does

4:12

it have any of his kind of dialogue at

4:14

all in it or is it kind of a

4:17

straightforward thing? It is the

4:19

least Iannucci-like. I

4:21

mean, I watched the whole film

4:23

without thinking, this sounds like Veep

4:26

and a lot of that I think

4:28

is because it's a period piece. It's

4:30

set in early England. So

4:34

a lot of the language is confined

4:36

to the language of that era. I

4:39

will say in hindsight it has a

4:41

lot of his trademark humor in

4:44

terms of the

4:46

way he uses the camera

4:48

and the way that the

4:50

actors' physical actions sometimes are

4:52

part of the joke

4:55

he's going for. It certainly

4:57

feels like a movie that he made, but

4:59

yeah, I don't think it has much of

5:01

his trademark dialogue because

5:03

of that period setting. Aaron, you've seen this, right? I

5:06

have. Here's what I will say. I owe

5:09

it a rewatch. This came

5:11

out, I did not enjoy it,

5:14

but it was during awards

5:16

season. When I'm in awards

5:18

season, sometimes stuff just misses

5:20

me. I'm sure plowing

5:23

through movies. I just remember

5:25

my only memory of this movie is that it

5:28

just felt like it tried to do too much.

5:30

Everything felt like it was going so fast. I

5:34

didn't feel like I got to connect to what

5:36

was going on because it was just always interested

5:38

in the next thing. That's

5:40

all I remember about watching this. I

5:42

do owe it a rewatch, especially knowing

5:44

that Anuchi is part of

5:46

it. I wouldn't be surprised if I rewatched

5:49

this and loved it more

5:51

for its heart because, like you said, I

5:53

think it's got a big heart. I love

5:55

that kind of stuff. I wouldn't be surprised

5:57

if I liked it more if I rewatched

5:59

it. watched it. Yeah. I think it was

6:02

one of the last episodes we did. I was talking about a

6:05

movie that I didn't really enjoy, but I

6:07

was trying to cram it in before our

6:09

best of the year episodes. And yeah, yeah,

6:11

sometimes that'll happen. Hmm. Uh,

6:15

Chris, why don't you go next? So I'm not just like talking,

6:17

talking, talking. Hmm. Uh,

6:21

all right. Uh, I finally caught up

6:23

to the show invincible on, uh, Amazon,

6:26

uh, the,

6:28

uh, animated, uh, superhero, um,

6:31

uh, show. And, uh,

6:33

this is, uh, this is about, uh,

6:36

a guy by the name of

6:38

Mark Grayson play, uh, voiced by

6:40

Steven Yoon, uh, whose dad is

6:42

Omni man. He is like the

6:44

Superman, like even more Superman than

6:46

Superman. His father is

6:48

Omni man played by JK Simmons, of

6:51

course, cause you kind of have JK

6:53

Simmons, his mom

6:55

is played by Sandra Oh, who has some of

6:57

the best moments of the series, I think, um,

7:00

and there's a little, just a

7:02

laundry list of just amazing acting

7:05

actors who come in and just

7:07

do small voices on throughout all

7:09

the episodes and everything. Um,

7:12

but, uh, the main crux of this in

7:15

the first season, Omni

7:17

man destroys a whole team

7:19

of superheroes and we don't

7:21

know why, and, and

7:23

he is, he's struggling with that and meanwhile, his

7:25

kid doesn't have the powers that he's expecting

7:27

them to have, but of course, right around the

7:29

time he turns 18, he gets the powers

7:31

and then he starts training his son for

7:34

something he's not, he thinks it's just training

7:36

him to be a superhero, but it's really

7:38

much more than that because it's the planet

7:41

he comes from and the philosophy of that

7:43

planet that they have about, uh,

7:45

the planets that they visit and everything.

7:47

And meanwhile, there's all sorts of other

7:49

just crazy things that happen in this

7:52

show or just all sorts

7:54

of different villains show up. Basically they look

7:56

like the, they look like the end boss

7:58

of any video game. you've ever seen, but

8:01

they're always like, it's always like dispatched

8:03

as soon as possible. But there's a

8:05

lot of like, really good stuff in

8:07

this. I

8:10

really enjoy the the the family drama of

8:12

Invincible. A lot

8:14

of Zazie Beets plays Mark's

8:17

girlfriend. Gillian Jacobs

8:19

plays a character named Adam Eve, who's

8:21

really good. She got her own. That

8:24

character got her own episode even I

8:27

think between seasons, which was

8:29

also very good. But

8:31

the whole first season is about leading up

8:33

to why why did Omni Man do this?

8:35

And then the second season is is

8:39

how does how does Mark deal with

8:41

all this without his dad? And where

8:43

did his dad go? And, and everything?

8:46

It's really, really good. I don't know if I'm

8:49

selling it enough. But it's, but

8:52

because there's so much that happens, but it's also type

8:54

of show you want to like, get

8:56

all you know, figure all this stuff out for yourself. You

8:58

want to find it out for yourself. So yeah,

9:01

I picked this up. I had heard enough about it when

9:03

the second season came out that I was just like,

9:05

okay, I'll just go ahead and watch this. There's only 16

9:08

episodes, eight per season. So

9:10

it's really good. It is

9:12

really good. In fact, I am

9:14

may take some flack for this. I think it's better

9:16

than the boys. Now they're

9:18

doing two separate things. The boys is

9:20

clearly satire that's making a point about

9:23

modern actually a lot of the same

9:25

points that quiz show is making that

9:27

we will get into modern technology and

9:29

those kind of things. But Invincible

9:33

is a drama. It's a

9:35

real drama with real characters

9:37

that are going through real

9:40

evolutions and changes, not just the

9:42

Invincible character. But as we

9:44

get into season two, some of these other main

9:47

characters who thought we thought maybe were one note

9:49

are actually like, how in the world are they

9:51

bringing depth to this character? And I've been

9:54

really impressed with the way Invincible

9:56

has treated its storytelling. Thing it

9:58

populates this with a whole bunch of

10:00

characters. The Walton, of course, Walton Goggins has a

10:03

character in here who's, who's a great in this

10:05

too. Um, but

10:07

you, you follow his character, you follow

10:09

someone who's kind of like an assistant

10:11

in the second season. You think

10:14

he's just kind of like a cleaner kind of guy,

10:16

like just kind of a business, whatever,

10:18

but he's got a lot of stuff going

10:20

on with him. That's like really interesting. I

10:22

love the two characters who, uh, who

10:25

the, the clone characters who

10:27

are, they're guys always making a clone of himself

10:29

whenever one of his clones dies and they keep

10:31

accusing each other of being the clone or are

10:34

chiding the other for being the clone when they

10:36

don't know who the clone is. Uh,

10:39

and, uh, those characters are really interesting because

10:41

this is populated with a lot of like

10:43

very interesting people every time they show up

10:45

on, on screen, it's, uh, it's

10:47

fun. So I was surprised. I'm, I'm usually

10:49

don't get into this kind of stuff, but

10:52

this is really well, well made. Yeah.

10:54

I think it's good. Hmm. God damn it. I'll

10:56

have to add it to my list. Yeah.

10:59

I know. Uh,

11:01

well, I'm not sure if you want to add this one

11:03

to your list or not. I really, really liked it. Uh,

11:05

for my small recommend, I'm going with birth. This is a

11:07

movie from 2004 directed

11:10

by Jonathan Glaser, who has won recent

11:12

acclaim for zone of interest. Um,

11:15

I checked this out on criterion channel

11:17

before it left, uh, the channel in

11:19

April. Um, this is

11:21

a story starring Nicole Kidman. So point

11:24

number one for this movie, Nicole Kidman

11:26

is in it. She's amazing. Uh,

11:29

and, uh, she is

11:31

someone whose husband dies.

11:34

He's out for a run. Um,

11:36

and he goes down and then 10

11:38

years later, a little boy shows up

11:40

claiming to be him, a 10 year

11:42

old boy, uh, claiming to

11:45

be the reincarnation of her husband.

11:47

And the movie becomes a mystery

11:49

slash thriller asking the

11:51

question, asking you as the audience to

11:54

go, what do you think is this

11:56

boy really her reincarnated

11:58

husband or not? And. I

12:00

think it's really well,

12:04

the movie makes a choice too. And

12:06

I find that really interesting. Uh,

12:09

but I'm not going to give it away here,

12:11

but I really loved it. And what I will

12:13

say is the movie does a great job at

12:15

walking that tight rope and letting, and giving you

12:18

those moments of, Oh, actually, how

12:20

could this happen if it was this way

12:22

or, Oh, now it can't be this way.

12:24

Cause so like, there's a lot of like,

12:26

it kept me mentally engaged in the, the

12:29

question throughout the movie. Um, Lauren

12:31

Bacall is in this as well.

12:33

Um, as her mother, uh, some

12:36

other faces you might know, like Ann

12:38

Haysh, uh, uh, Danny Huston, um, you

12:40

know, people you might, uh, Ted Levine

12:42

shows up in this, my, my detective

12:45

friend from monk. Um,

12:47

so, uh, so yeah, uh, lots of fun

12:49

stuff here. And I think this is well

12:51

worth a watch. So, all

12:54

this movie, when it came out, I do

12:56

not remember liking it, but much like, uh,

13:00

you with David Copperfield, I may have to

13:02

just give this a rewatch because both of

13:04

you and Jonathan have been talking about how,

13:06

how this movie was actually good. So,

13:09

um, so I may

13:11

have to give this another one. I think,

13:13

I think possibly that the subject matter of

13:16

this movie, uh, turned me off enough that

13:18

I was just like, I

13:20

don't know, but sure. Who knows maybe

13:23

20 years from the point that it came

13:25

out, I'll be totally okay with the subject

13:27

matter. Uh,

13:29

so I, and just to clarify,

13:31

because that might be, uh, the trigger

13:34

for some that I would, would want to give,

13:36

there are elements of this where the little boy,

13:38

uh, 10 year old

13:40

boy is talking about his

13:42

past life relationship with this

13:45

grown woman. And so

13:47

there is this ick factor of

13:49

how they are handling, you

13:52

know, even these conversations about

13:54

physical intimacy. Right. So the,

13:56

the, the, the movie never goes

13:59

there. there, although there is one

14:01

scene where they share a space that

14:04

is a little like awkward, but

14:07

even the conversations can feel icky.

14:09

So there's definitely that element to

14:11

it. I think that's what you

14:13

were talking about, Chris. Yeah.

14:16

All right, on to our big recommend, and

14:18

I think our strategy of having Aaron talk

14:20

for 45 minutes straight did not work out

14:22

in the way that we did this, because

14:25

he is going to

14:27

be the guy talking about Quiz Show. I'm

14:29

fine, I'm fine. It's just that you're seeing

14:31

big. It's so huge. It's a good

14:34

rule, but this is bigger than rules.

14:36

It's bigger on the inside.

14:38

See? It's a nice one. Well, since I'll

14:40

be talking for a while, if you guys don't

14:42

mind for the plot summary, I'd like to take

14:44

the last part first. This

14:47

movie is transcendent and continues to become more

14:49

relevant as each day goes by. 1994's

14:52

Quiz Show, directed by Robert Redford and

14:54

nominated for four Academy Awards, including Best

14:56

Picture, by the way, starts with a

14:58

car sale in progress. Richard

15:00

Goodwin, who was first in his class at

15:03

Harvard Law School, is being wooed by a

15:05

slick car salesman in the beauty of hand-rubbed

15:07

pigskin and lambskin. As the radio

15:09

informs us of Sputnik's launch, the movie has

15:11

already set the hook of its themes of

15:13

what's for sale, what lies will be used

15:15

to sell it, who's willing to buy it,

15:18

and what is the actual cost? We

15:20

then cut to a bank vault where the

15:22

questions for this night's episode of 21, a

15:25

game show, are being brought to the studio.

15:27

As the host, Jack Barry, quotes some of

15:29

Eugene O'Neill's long day's journey into night, we

15:31

get the sense for what a production this

15:34

game show is and the aura of the

15:36

secrecy of these questions. We also

15:38

find out that Herbert Stemple has been winning for

15:40

a while, but somehow isn't really that nervous

15:42

about it and also really, really likes Geritol

15:44

in its effect on waking up his wife's

15:47

blood. We then see

15:49

a cascade of calls initiated by

15:51

the director of Hugo, who apparently

15:53

also runs Geritol. He

15:55

calls the president of NBC, who calls the show's

15:57

directors, showing us not only that they want to

15:59

win, but Stimple out, but exactly

16:01

how the power dynamic flows down

16:03

the chain. We then meet

16:06

the Van Dorns. Charlie is watching the same

16:08

show live as his mom and dad take

16:10

turns being extremely witty and lovable. Herbert

16:12

wins and we get a sense that he

16:15

really loves the attention he gets from his

16:17

fame because who wouldn't after all. Meanwhile

16:20

Van Dorn has been smitten by these

16:22

quiz shows and decides to try out

16:24

for tic-tac-toe, but Mo Cislac spots him

16:26

and immediately wants to snipe him for

16:28

21. They drag him in

16:30

and try to convince him and then ask him

16:33

whether or not he'd be comfy knowing the answers

16:35

ahead of time. After some discussion

16:37

of how Immanuel Kant might feel about it,

16:39

he says no and asks if that was

16:41

indeed part of the test. Then

16:44

as if an astute observation has

16:46

led to laughter, they are laughing,

16:49

they are laughing. We

16:51

then reconnect with Richard Goodwin who was first

16:53

in his class at Harvard Law School back

16:55

at the office looking into oversight. That's

16:58

where you guys say it's an oversight.

17:00

It's an oversight of me. Thank you.

17:02

Anyhow you get the sense that he

17:04

is tenacious and principled and has

17:06

an accent that doesn't exist in the real world but is

17:08

a blast to listen to anyway. Then

17:11

it's back to Stimple who is being whined

17:13

and dined and told to take a dive

17:15

by answering a movie question with on the

17:17

waterfront when he clearly knows the answer

17:20

is Marty. This upsets him so

17:22

he heads home and is complaining to his son

17:24

so much that it convinces his wife that ulcers

17:26

are contagious. She then says

17:28

he should answer the question correctly

17:31

anyway but as Richard Goodwin who

17:33

was first in his class at Harvard

17:35

Law School and the director of silence

17:37

Swachan, Stimple decides to play ball and

17:40

answers on the waterfront even though even

17:42

the camera guy knows it should be Marty.

17:46

We then go to Van Dorn and

17:48

he gets waylaid by being asked a

17:50

question he already answered from his interview

17:52

and now he is

17:54

the one with a moral dilemma but

17:57

he chooses to answer it correctly and

17:59

it's cvdf.com TW at least

18:01

for now Van Dorn then

18:03

wrestles with this moral choice for about the

18:05

time it takes to walk halfway down the

18:07

stairs at which point he

18:09

remembers he Won 20k and he's immediately

18:11

in his ascent is

18:13

co-montaged with Semples decent as No

18:16

one will take herby's calls and he eventually

18:19

goes to the authorities about having to take

18:21

this dive This leads

18:23

to a John Turturro acting Masterclass

18:25

scene in which after coming outside

18:27

the top 42 and panel show

18:29

popularity and being offered $50 a week He

18:31

threatens to burn the whole thing down Meanwhile

18:35

Richard Goodwin who was first

18:37

in his class at Harvard Law School has had his curiosity

18:40

Peeked by the sealed court case on these

18:42

quiz show hearings He sells his

18:44

higher-ups on it enough to get a few days to

18:46

dig around in New York after a judge who apparently

18:48

is in The pocket of the show waves him away

18:51

He goes door to door with former

18:53

contestants eventually leading him to have a

18:55

meeting with Van Dorn himself But

18:57

Van Dorn is too busy tying his shoes and

19:00

basking in the giggles of young co-eds So

19:02

they decide to meet the next day Then

19:05

they have a meal together where Chuck's dad shows

19:07

up to give some salient poker advice and

19:09

show off by knowing there Is a K

19:11

in Nebraska? Next up

19:13

Richard Goodwin who was first in his class

19:15

at Harvard Law School But didn't get a

19:18

tattoo about it finally meets the simple who

19:20

is amazed the Jew got into Harvard and

19:22

tells him the fix is in After

19:25

that it's on to a birthday party for

19:27

daddy Van Dorn where his poetry is interrupted

19:29

by his son's fame after baby Van Dorn

19:31

shocks Them with his winning totals. He and

19:33

Papa Van Dorn have a Shakespeare off and

19:36

Charlie pleads for his dad's attention and approval

19:38

by giving him a television Next

19:41

up is in rights and freed

19:43

men who do some tag team

19:45

gaslighting So well that Richard

19:47

Goodwin who was first in his

19:49

class at Harvard Law School buys

19:52

it But then Stimple ambushes Goodwin

19:54

and drops the big bomb He

19:56

knows Van Dorn is getting the answers

19:59

because he got the answers too.

20:02

Dickie can't figure out why Stemple would

20:04

say that if it wasn't true, and

20:06

also can't figure out Van Dorn's motive

20:08

until his wife cracks the case by

20:10

pointing out the size of his father's

20:12

shadow. This leads Dick

20:14

to tell Chuck at poker that he knows

20:16

he's lying, but Van Dorn is a

20:18

pedantic jerkface and corrects him that the word

20:20

is bluffing. After this, Van

20:23

Dorn enjoys some late night milk and cake

20:25

with his pops, which leads to a conversation

20:27

where he laments the loss of his innocence

20:29

and his dad expresses his pride in him,

20:32

which then of course just makes it all

20:34

the worse. Meanwhile,

20:36

Richard Goodwin, who was first in his class

20:38

of watching old game show reels in Harvard

20:40

film school, is combing through

20:43

the episodes of 21 in Stumbles

20:45

on a time when a contestant

20:47

kinda smirked after surprising Jack Barry

20:50

with the correct answer. A

20:53

visit to that contestant leads to a

20:56

proof-giving registered letter in some of the

20:58

most egregious – yes, I know what

21:00

it means – Apple-leading in film history.

21:04

Dick tries to meet up with the

21:06

president of NBC and after catching him

21:08

leaving his office he drops the bomb

21:11

that he has in right, so he

21:13

has NBC, but Kittner and his non-sweating

21:15

brow remain unconvinced. Only

21:18

the heat gets too much for Van Dorn

21:20

who dumps an answer at the same episode

21:22

that Dickie just happens to be attending, but

21:25

NBC keeps its hooks in him by offering

21:27

him a panel show. Meanwhile,

21:29

Dickie confronts Enright with his

21:31

rock-solid proof in the actual

21:33

studio so that we can

21:35

see Goodwin gleefully turn down

21:37

that same panel show hook

21:40

and also see Enright absolutely

21:42

demolished. Next up, it's Richard

21:44

Goodwin, first in his class at not being a

21:46

member of your GD fan club at Harvard Nymph

21:48

School, meets up with Van Dorn with Dickie, but

21:50

NBC keeps its hooks in

21:55

him by offering him a panel show. Meanwhile,

21:58

Dickie confronts Enright with his rock-solid proof in the actual studio so that rock-solid

22:00

proof in the actual studio so

22:02

that we can see Goodwin gleefully

22:05

turn down that same

22:07

panel show hook and also

22:09

see Enright absolutely demolished. Next

22:12

up, it's Richard Goodwin, first in his class at not

22:14

being a member of your GD fan club at Harvard

23:29

can't tell the truth. After

23:32

Daddy Dorn recovers from the shock and

23:34

the hurt, he pushes back and helps

23:36

his son understand how names work and

23:38

eventually agrees to go with him as

23:40

he does the hard work of coming

23:42

clean. So Van Dorn gives

23:44

his honest testimony and after a few appreciative

23:46

words from the committee, one true

23:48

New Yorker lays him out for his

23:50

delayed actions. All that's left now

23:53

is for Enright to take the fall, NBC

23:55

and Geritol to keep making money, and

23:58

to help us truly fear that television will destroy

24:00

us all and future penthouse contributor Albert

24:02

Friedman to draw the direct line between

24:05

politics and show business and really help

24:07

us end the movie by knowing the

24:09

script for the fall of mankind is

24:12

already written. As the audience laughs over

24:14

the credits we are left to ponder

24:16

what we will do now that we

24:19

have the answers and that is Quiz

24:21

Show. What do you guys think of

24:23

Quiz Show coming back to it? Obviously

24:27

Quiz Show is one

24:29

of my favorite movies of all

24:31

time so I am getting

24:34

to watch this movie again it had been

24:36

had been a while since I had given

24:38

it a viewing it's

24:41

it's always just like a I

24:43

don't know well-fitting glove right like

24:46

you like it in it's like

24:48

yeah it's just this is oh my god

24:50

this is this is this

24:52

is my friend here Quiz Show is my friend and

24:55

there's probably some

24:57

weird sexual

24:59

metaphors with that comparison there. I

25:04

love this movie I think that the the

25:07

thing that I noticed the most

25:09

about this this

25:11

viewing is just the class differences between

25:13

our three leads. Herbert

25:17

Stemple is is the lower middle

25:19

class person here. Dick

25:22

Goodwin is obviously middle

25:24

class he's at the beginning when he's

25:27

trying to when he's looking at this

25:29

car he's thinking about he can't afford

25:31

the car obviously but he's in a

25:33

position where maybe one day he can

25:36

afford that car and he and that's

25:38

why he's in there right there right

25:40

at that point and but

25:43

he he tells he tells exactly

25:45

what where his class

25:47

is when he says the finest piece of

25:49

furniture would be in the garage and

25:53

then you have then you have

25:55

Van Doren who is

25:57

is the privileged upper class person

26:00

here. However, the reason that

26:02

he does the things that he does in this

26:04

movie is that he is in the shadow of

26:07

his father. He doesn't have money himself. He

26:10

makes $82 a week as a professor at

26:12

Columbia University, which is insane when you think

26:14

about it, but like he

26:16

doesn't make his own money. If he

26:18

has to, if he wants to get

26:21

something, he's gonna have to ask dad

26:23

about it. No, his dad probably will

26:25

give him anything that he wants, but he's

26:28

more, he's finally found something

26:30

where it's like, well maybe I can

26:32

do this and I can make my own name out

26:35

of it. So I

26:37

love the class classes here. I

26:40

also love the fact that when

26:42

Dick Goodwin goes to the Van

26:44

Doren house, he sees that Chrysler

26:46

300 out there and

26:49

he's talking about how he

26:51

was looking at one and here Van Doren's

26:53

just got one just hanging out in

26:56

the parking lot or whatever, the

26:58

driveway and everything.

27:02

I also, the other thing about this

27:04

movie is at the end, everybody

27:06

who lies ends up

27:08

getting rewarded at the end of

27:10

this movie. Every single person who

27:13

lies gets rewarded and

27:15

everybody who tells the truth ends

27:17

up getting destroyed. Every single one

27:19

of them that tell the truth.

27:23

Van Doren of course is

27:27

making his way through this movie

27:29

and everybody just gives him deference.

27:31

Even Dick Goodwin gives him deference.

27:33

Even though he knows for a

27:35

fact this guy is dirty, he

27:38

still wants to be his friend. He wants to be

27:41

like, I want to be buddies with you man. I

27:43

want to like,

27:45

because we're kind of the same, we're

27:47

the same intellectually. If the

27:52

things were different, we would be best buds. We'd

27:54

be going out on the boat and

27:56

we'd be like, you know, sailing around talking

27:59

about our old old days when people used

28:01

to punch us in the face for being nerds and

28:03

all the other stuff. But

28:06

and then when finally, you know,

28:08

Van Doren takes that privilege way

28:10

too far. And

28:13

Van Doren's in a place where I don't know

28:15

where he's supposed to go, though, by the end

28:17

of this movie, because the president

28:20

of NBC is saying, I want

28:23

you to lie about this. And

28:26

then if you don't lie, basically the implication

28:28

is you're going to get fired. And

28:34

he doesn't really have much of a choice other than he

28:36

I guess he could have just

28:38

quit or something and just took

28:40

himself out of the situation. But

28:42

instead, he decided to make a nice, flowery

28:44

speech complete with Icarus references and stuff at

28:46

the end, which, of course, leads to one

28:48

of the best scenes of the movie where

28:51

all the senators want to like kiss

28:53

his ass after that. I'm like, oh,

28:56

look at somebody who did something wrong and is

28:58

admitting it. That makes all the things you did

29:01

wrong good now. And

29:03

then finally, you have the one guy who's like, I come from

29:05

a different part of New York, and I don't

29:07

think someone should be should be applauded for long

29:09

last telling the truth. And he

29:11

gets the, you know, the Disney cloak lap

29:13

after that. But

29:17

yeah, this movie, this movie is

29:19

just so good, man. I could

29:23

watch I could watch it after this

29:25

podcast and be totally fine spending

29:27

another two hours watching this. I

29:33

it's funny how watching a

29:35

movie for this podcast reveals

29:37

new things to me, even

29:39

in a movie I've seen 20 times. I

29:44

don't I feel like Charles and Herbert are are

29:46

motivated by different things. Charles

29:49

is motivated by

29:52

fame and probably

29:55

the desire to get his

29:57

father's approval. is

30:00

motivated by credit,

30:03

respect. And they

30:05

both end up taking

30:08

similar paths with regard to 21, even

30:11

though their reasons

30:14

are slightly different. I've always viewed

30:16

this movie as about fame, strictly as

30:19

about fame, because you

30:21

get that scene, it's so innocent, but

30:23

it feels key when he's

30:25

being driven to the college and the

30:28

kids aren't coming out yet. And he waits and

30:30

ties his shoes, pretends to tie his shoe until

30:32

the kids come out of the thing. And then

30:34

he gets out of the car and he's mobbed

30:36

by all the kids. It's clear he's intoxicated by

30:39

this fame, but Stemple's

30:42

motivation isn't that at all.

30:47

It's not even, I don't think the money. I think

30:50

it's just he wants people to know he's

30:52

smart. And

30:54

I'd never really thought about those

30:57

two having really different motivations,

30:59

even though those motivations lead

31:02

them both to basically

31:04

do what the show wants them to do. I

31:07

also started looking at how

31:10

many times Charles digs his own grave

31:12

here. Like early on, Dick

31:15

doesn't suspect Charles at first. This is

31:19

just a perfunctory, I've got to interview

31:22

all of these people. He doesn't think

31:24

for a second that this ultra rich,

31:26

ultra smart guy is

31:29

on the take. But Charles

31:31

slowly starts giving him

31:33

tells. Like he asks the

31:35

question during their meal and instead of

31:37

answering it, Charles repeats in rights

31:39

name. Yeah, you can read him an NBC and

31:41

then takes a bite of a sandwich. So he

31:44

won't have to answer. And there's a shot, it

31:46

cuts to Dick and he kind of looks at

31:48

him a little weird. And I feel like that's

31:50

the first moment Dick's like, this guy's

31:53

hiding something from me. And

31:55

if Charles was just a little bit better,

31:57

an actor, he might have been able

31:59

to. away with it. The biggest

32:01

mistake he makes in my opinion is

32:03

inviting Dick out to his family picnic

32:06

because at that event, I think it

32:08

all falls apart between Dick and Charles.

32:10

By the end of that event, I

32:12

think Dick realizes this guy is dirty.

32:15

I got to investigate this guy now.

32:19

I love that scene. And if

32:21

you watch that scene, Dick doesn't say much

32:23

of anything. He's asked who he is early

32:25

on, but most of it is Dick watching.

32:28

Watching how this family interacts,

32:31

watching how Charles so clearly

32:33

needs, obsessively, his father's

32:36

approval and pride. And

32:38

that's where the onion starts to unpeel,

32:40

I think. I

32:43

love the different levels of

32:45

intelligence in this movie because

32:48

this movie is full of really smart

32:50

people, but almost everyone who is smart

32:52

in this movie has an opportunity to

32:54

correct somebody else who is

32:56

smart in this movie. Stemple

32:59

won a ton of quiz show games,

33:01

but doesn't understand the difference between squashed

33:03

and quashed. Dick points it

33:05

out to him. Everybody

33:07

also gets a chance to be disappointed

33:09

in someone else. Dick is disappointed in

33:11

Charles. Charles' dad is disappointed in him.

33:13

Charles is disappointed in Dick, though that's

33:15

not justified. Herb's disappointed

33:17

in everyone. Herb's wife is disappointed in him.

33:20

I think

33:22

this movie has a lot to say about how other

33:24

people see us. And I

33:26

think there's a really important parallel between the

33:28

Vandoren father's son and the Stemple father's son,

33:31

because that Stemple kid is on

33:34

track to turn out exactly like

33:36

his father because

33:38

of who his father is. I've

33:43

always thought the

33:45

elder Vandoren was a saint in

33:47

watching this movie. Especially as

33:49

you pointed out, Chris, when after their

33:52

confrontation, after he reels

33:54

from this devastating knowledge, he

33:56

pretty quickly goes, all right, what are we going

33:58

to do? How can I say? support you. But

34:03

this viewing, I'm a lot more torn.

34:07

That picnic scene in particular, I don't

34:09

know that he was a great father all through

34:11

life. Yeah, I don't think the movie lets him

34:13

off the hook for putting Charles in this emotional

34:15

position. Yeah, I don't think the movie lets him

34:18

off the hook for that. No, I don't think

34:20

it does. But I have not really ever paid

34:22

much attention to that negative

34:26

impact he had on Charles's life. Because

34:29

he is in many scenes shown

34:32

to be a really great father. But I

34:35

think also one of the points of the movie

34:38

is that we can't help but impart onto our

34:40

kids part of who we are, no

34:42

matter how much we might try not to.

34:45

I've danced all over my notes. But there's

34:47

a few other things I wanted to get

34:49

in here. Three people in

34:51

tiny roles that went on to be

34:53

famous. Ileana Douglas, Kalista Flockhart, William Fickner.

34:56

I love when that happens in movies, when I go

34:58

back to see a movie, and

35:00

I'm sure I've recognized these people before, but

35:03

seeing, oh, that's William Fickner. I

35:05

don't even know if he has a line of dialogue in this

35:07

movie. The stage manager. And then

35:10

you have famous

35:12

Ethan Hawke showing up, just

35:15

randomly talking

35:17

about Don Quixote at the end. I

35:19

also think, okay, first of

35:21

all, Azaria and Pamer, I think need

35:24

to be inducted into the Double Team

35:26

Conman Hall of Fame. They're back and

35:28

forth the way they work. People,

35:31

especially Van Dorn in that first meeting,

35:33

when it's like, they go, they just,

35:36

it's good cop, bad cop,

35:38

basically. They're incredible. But

35:40

their hubris is part of the problem

35:42

here. If they'd just let Stemple

35:46

lose on a physics question, like

35:48

he asked, instead of forcing

35:50

him to embarrass himself by not

35:52

knowing Marty, I don't know

35:54

if he's quite as angry after he's done.

35:56

He's kind of at that dinner,

35:58

he's accepting it. He's like, All right. Well, maybe

36:01

I'll get a panel show, you know, let me

36:03

lose on a physics question No, you're gonna you're

36:05

gonna lose on her. Oh man that that panel

36:07

show seems very important to him afterward

36:10

it and I think the the

36:13

Losing on that question certainly

36:16

is a driver in all of this Now

36:19

by the way, thank God little show to

36:21

yeah by the way

36:24

good thing Google wasn't in charge of Best

36:26

picture years and stuff like that or else on

36:28

the waterfront would have been the correct answer according

36:35

I love the bit when

36:37

he explains why Columbus

36:39

called them Indians Alone

36:41

when he's telling his kid they're Indians cuz come

36:44

white guy got lost. Yeah, I always

36:46

loved that little story Let's

36:48

see. I think I'm almost done The

36:50

father's speech to Charles at the end is devastating when

36:52

he does the year name is my name Kills

36:57

me because I am a son of a

36:59

father and I want my father's approval. I

37:01

think all of us do But

37:04

I think that your name is my name kind

37:07

of thinking is a generational

37:11

kind of I'm not sure I Put

37:14

as much stock in that as

37:16

the movie does I Think

37:20

it wrecks me because I'm a son and

37:22

I want to please my father, but I What's

37:25

a lot of goddamn pressure? This is part of

37:27

why Charles is in the position He's in is

37:30

because he has your fucking name and

37:32

it's a lot to live up to And

37:34

and think you think about this too He's this

37:37

whole the whole reason he did this was

37:39

to make a name for himself like

37:43

he's he's Arguably become the most

37:45

famous Van Doren by this by

37:47

that. He does this quiz show.

37:50

Yep And and you

37:52

know once he once he

37:54

gets into scandal and

37:56

everything Now what do people think

37:58

of when they think about? the poet Mark

38:01

Van Doren or they think about this

38:03

they're gonna think oh the Van Doren

38:05

like the the cheating quiz show guy

38:07

Van Doren that's exactly what you're

38:09

gonna think right? Yep. Yep.

38:12

Anyway I used to love that dad like

38:14

a saint but now I see some flaws. I

38:18

still love him like a saint. I listen I

38:20

have to start my further notes

38:23

by just saying all hail Paul

38:25

Schofield. I think he is

38:28

astonishing in this movie.

38:30

Like every scene the

38:33

way he holds the scene that

38:35

scene that your name is mine

38:37

scene he the way he is

38:39

destroyed and devastated by you know

38:42

wait you were lying this whole

38:44

time like it's just it's so

38:46

perfectly conveyed he absolutely deserved

38:48

the nomination he got for best supporting

38:51

actor that year. And that's a break

38:53

right into your own thing here but

38:56

that line too where they

38:58

gave you all that money

39:00

for a question you already

39:02

know now that's inflation. Yeah

39:08

he's given some everybody in here is given

39:10

some great lines to say but

39:12

but he just I think he is absolutely

39:15

incredible so I wanted to start with that.

39:17

I was it's interesting Chris

39:19

you mentioned the slow clap at the

39:21

end and then you know the guy

39:23

from a different you know place in

39:25

New York putting him in his place.

39:27

I think with that applause the movie

39:29

again is bringing home this point

39:31

that everything is a performance

39:34

even this guy who is saying

39:36

true things you know it's not

39:39

like they're not true things he's

39:41

performing to an audience. Politics is

39:43

performative. TV is performative. The world

39:45

is becoming so performative that

39:48

what is true what isn't true like

39:50

those ideas are so hard to figure

39:52

out when everything is just a performance

39:54

and boy do we see it today

39:57

it just gets more and more relevant

39:59

as time goes on, it's like, it's

40:03

interesting, I was looking at the, I've never done

40:05

this before, this viewing, the

40:08

poem that Jack Barry is

40:10

reciting at the beginning, I

40:12

think I mentioned it was Eugene O'Neill, is

40:15

this poem, it's just a paragraph poem, but

40:18

one of the lines says,

40:21

that's what I wanted, to be

40:23

alone with myself in another world

40:25

where truth is untrue, and life

40:27

can hide from itself. And

40:30

it's this idea, the poem is this man

40:32

standing in a fog and going, what is

40:34

true and what is untrue, I kind of

40:36

like the comfort of not knowing. Like,

40:38

and that is the audience, the audience is like,

40:40

eh, does it matter what's true or not true,

40:42

I'm being entertained, I'm having a good time, I'm

40:45

the man in the fog, I don't

40:48

know that it matters, you know, it's

40:50

just the movie is so specific and

40:53

so razor

40:56

sharp with its themes that I just every

40:58

time something new will reveal

41:00

itself to me, there's a moment where,

41:02

I forget who it

41:04

is that says it, maybe you guys can remind me, but

41:07

just make the questions easier and they tune in to watch

41:09

the money. Yeah,

41:12

yeah, during that scene, he's like, it

41:14

doesn't matter, why cheat, just make the

41:16

questions easier. And you look today, and

41:18

there's literally a game show where

41:20

people just drop balls to land in money,

41:22

because it does like, none of that matters,

41:24

they think it's called the wall. And it's

41:28

just like, they bring on people who deserve the

41:30

money, and then people just watch them win a

41:32

bunch of money, because that's all it is, it's

41:34

just people, you know, I saw

41:36

much money. I don't, I

41:38

think it's a streaming service, has

41:41

a game show, the host is an actress that

41:43

I remember from a show, I

41:45

watched 15 minutes of this

41:48

thing, and it was literally the dumbest

41:50

shit I've ever seen. Which

41:54

of these two animals shown to you

41:57

is a cat? Like, it was

41:59

the dumbest, like, first graders could answer these

42:01

questions. And I think

42:03

the point of the show is that the

42:05

contestants are perfectly average people. They're not people

42:07

coming in that claim to have trivia knowledge

42:09

or anything. But I was so dismayed

42:12

by watching that. I was like, what? This

42:14

doesn't need to exist, but they are just

42:16

watching the money on that show. That's what

42:18

they're watching. Yeah. So I thought that was

42:20

interesting. I wanted to mention some new standout

42:23

lines for me. When Stimple says,

42:25

fed to the Columbia Lions, watch Van Doren

42:27

eat his first kosher meal, and one popped

42:29

out to me this time, just the

42:31

beautiful fed to the lions, but it's

42:34

the Columbia Lions. Yeah,

42:36

I thought that was pretty great. Think

42:40

about what McCarthyism did for McCarthy. It's out

42:42

to me this time. We're really drawing that

42:44

line to politics. And it's like, yeah, you

42:46

don't want to be McCarthy, but that

42:48

made his career, man. It's

42:51

just how everything is performative. And

42:54

I think I was more aware this time than

42:56

ever before of how directly Redford is tying the

42:59

line to politics. I've

43:01

always known it was about television, and it was

43:04

about performance, and those kind of things. But

43:06

very specifically, over

43:09

the course of the movie, several times, he

43:12

makes it clear that it's not just television

43:14

impacting us as an

43:16

audience in entertainment. It's also how performance

43:19

impacts politics. Well, and how many times

43:21

do we see the conflict of interest

43:23

that judges and senators have in

43:28

these things? The one

43:30

judge who seals the presentment at the

43:32

beginning is Buddy and Enright, and then

43:35

you have the senator

43:37

who's sitting there. My

43:41

favorite line delivery and response in

43:43

the movie is

43:46

when Dick Goodwin

43:49

sets up Enright and Friedman

43:52

by saying, you know, simple has

43:54

this idea that every time a

43:56

Jew's on, he's

43:59

replaced with a man. via Gentile who wins more money.

44:01

And they laugh and laugh. And then he's like,

44:03

here's the thing. I looked into it. He

44:06

was right. And the way he delivers

44:08

that line is so perfect. It's so

44:10

good. Well, and every time Dan and

44:12

right gets that kind of treatment, he

44:15

had, he's, he steps back a little

44:17

bit and himself, he's like, Oh,

44:19

well, we'll look into it, I guess, you know, and,

44:22

and the same thing happens

44:24

later when he's getting confronted

44:27

after the, that last show

44:29

and, uh, and, uh,

44:31

you know, a good one

44:33

says I've got the, you know, I've got the

44:35

envelope that's got, you know, the answers and it

44:37

registered mail. That's what Snodgrass said to himself. Right.

44:39

Yeah. And, uh, and, uh,

44:42

he goes, he goes, uh, it gives us after

44:44

in rights and you don't have any evidence at

44:46

all. And as he said, and he

44:48

goes, I think that's pretty goddamn concrete. Don't you

44:50

sit down. Finally,

44:54

he's been standing this full time and he

44:56

sits down the, uh, the

44:59

man, the other, that other thing I've always

45:01

loved that my favorite scene of the movie

45:03

is, is, uh, Dick Goodwin and

45:05

Charles Van Doren and the, in the room and

45:08

Dick finally saying I've had enough of your bullshit.

45:10

Basically. He's like, don't treat me so like I'm

45:12

some maybe goddamn fan club. Yeah.

45:14

And, uh, but there's right after that, uh,

45:18

Charles Van Doren says I envy you, Dick and

45:20

Dick is like, he's like, was like, uh, was

45:22

it all just about the money, Charlie and Charlie's

45:24

like, you gotta forgive me than anybody, but anybody

45:26

who doesn't, who has any money would, uh,

45:30

he says you would have to forgive me. Anybody

45:32

that thinks money is just money. You can't have

45:34

very much of it. And he's like, he's like,

45:36

he, he goes, well, uh, you, he's

45:38

like, you can insult me fine, Charlie, but you

45:40

can't envy me at the same time. So,

45:46

uh, yeah, there's a lot of like,

45:48

great, just, I mean, just that, that

45:51

the whole like final 30 minutes zoomed

45:53

by like nothing. I

45:55

think the whole movie is so

45:58

tightly, uh, puts.

46:00

together and just maintains attention, zooms by,

46:02

and it's like a two hour and 20

46:04

minute movie and it just doesn't feel like

46:06

it's that long. It's just, it's just

46:08

really, really good. I also want to shout out his

46:11

area who I think has a

46:13

really fun performance in this and, uh,

46:16

he's just kind of that lowest common

46:18

denominator. He's making like whack off motions

46:20

and, you know, doesn't know anything. He's

46:22

an idiot. Like it's just the best.

46:24

What the hell does it mean? Yeah.

46:27

The egregious part is great. And

46:30

I love how he says that. And

46:32

then immediately Dan Enright doesn't even acknowledge

46:34

that. He wants to have

46:36

the, he wants to have the questions in advance. And

46:38

then, but there's, uh, the other

46:40

part too, where you're talking about earlier

46:42

in your, in your synopsis,

46:46

uh, when he says, I wonder what Kant

46:48

would think of this. Dan

46:52

Kazeri turns to Dan and he goes, I think he'd be okay.

46:54

It would be okay with it. My

47:04

final question for you guys. Um,

47:06

I was noticing again, so many of the

47:08

crumbs that this movie leaves for us to

47:10

love about truth and the themes and stuff,

47:12

you know, the, what would Abe Lincoln do?

47:14

What would honest Dave think of this? Uh,

47:16

the ode to aggression or in truth is

47:18

beauty. Beauty is true. Like it's dropping all

47:20

of these things. Uh, the truth

47:22

has its price. Um, you know, is in

47:24

there as well. Is the movies

47:27

one flaw that maybe it does too

47:29

much? Like, is there two, like,

47:31

is it two on the nose with a lot of

47:33

that stuff? I don't think so. I love every single

47:36

moment, but like, I just wonder if like that could

47:38

be. Maybe the flaw that's leveled

47:40

out. He may be onto something there about some

47:42

of those things. Like I thought, I

47:44

thought they, they kind of shoe horned, uh,

47:46

a thing towards the, uh, it was, it's

47:49

before the big Dick Goodwin, Charles Van Doren.

47:51

Thing when we've already been taught and

47:54

told that Snodgrass was supposed to answer

47:56

a question that involved Emily Dickinson and

47:58

then later on. there's a

48:00

point where, you know, Dick

48:04

says something about King Baudouin after Van

48:06

Doren has just said a Dickinson quote.

48:08

And then he's a King Baudouin and

48:10

he's like, Emily Dickinson, actually.

48:15

But yeah, there are some things like that, but I think some

48:17

of those are, I mean, some of those

48:19

are a little bit more natural. And they don't like, I

48:22

don't know if they hammer you right in the

48:24

head with it. Exactly, yeah. I think they're kind

48:26

of to the side, they're glancing blows, but they're

48:28

not like right on the nose. Well,

48:31

it's like that fog poem. Like

48:33

they don't. Like it's just Jack Barry reciting a

48:36

couple lines. It's not even the lines that are

48:38

pertinent to the theme that he's reciting. Like you

48:40

have to do that extra level of digging.

48:42

So yeah, I think it keeps it subtle enough that even

48:45

with the amount of the illusions and

48:47

those kind of things, that it never feels ham-fisted. I

48:49

think you're right. My only question

48:52

about this movie is

48:54

the focus

48:57

that Goodwin has on television itself.

49:01

Like I thought we're going to get television. Like

49:04

as if television is the main

49:06

problem here. And I couldn't

49:08

help but think because

49:11

it's directed by a movie

49:13

star. And it was that long, I don't know if

49:15

you guys ever heard this growing up, but

49:17

there was that long standing thing among

49:20

actors to never do television. And I

49:22

think the reason was that

49:24

if you did television, you were reducing your brand

49:27

in some way. That if you're going to go

49:29

to television, you're never going to be in movies

49:31

again. And this is something that I think Rod

49:33

Steiger told Natalie Portman on the set of Mars

49:36

Attacks at one point. Don't

49:38

ever do television because of this and

49:40

everything. And I couldn't

49:42

help but think, are movies

49:45

themselves not a part of this

49:47

problem? Or is it just TV,

49:49

the immediacy of TV that is

49:51

more of a problem in this

49:53

society here and everything? It was

49:55

kind of weird to me that it wasn't about just the

49:57

quiz shows. And remember, it's not just

49:59

that. this one, it's the $64,000 question. There's

50:03

a couple of others that get, that get rained in

50:05

on this one as well. Um,

50:07

and at the end of it, the good ones, like I

50:10

wanted to get television. What is the deal with that? I

50:13

think it has to do with the, that it's

50:15

a populist medium that it's, you know, that it

50:17

is in the home. It's, it can be in

50:19

every home where the movie is like something you

50:22

attend, something you go out to. So it's a

50:24

little more, um, of, of

50:26

an effort, but I think the movie is

50:29

making the direct point that Goodwin

50:31

is wrong. He thought he was

50:33

going after television. And what he

50:35

doesn't realize is that television is

50:37

just the tool that enhances those

50:40

parts of human nature that are

50:42

to perform, to gain fame, to,

50:45

you know, power, you know, like

50:47

the television is just a tool.

50:49

It's just representative. Now it's, you

50:52

know, tick tock or Facebook or

50:54

whatever. These are now the new

50:56

technological tools that just emphasize the

50:58

wrong parts of humanity and they

51:01

just, it's just this never ending,

51:03

you know, a process towards, uh,

51:05

you know, our own doom. So

51:08

I always, I mean, I feel

51:10

simplistic now because that's all very deep and

51:12

profound, but I always took that line to

51:15

just mean that that's

51:17

his mourning. The fact that

51:20

it, everything's just going to keep going. Uh,

51:23

the corruption, the lying, the money changing

51:25

hands, that's all going to keep going

51:27

and he thought what he

51:29

was doing was going to have a meaningful impact

51:31

on stopping that kind of corruption. Yeah. And it

51:33

did. Well, and it just goes to show by

51:36

the way, and then it's the tying into what

51:38

you're saying, Aaron, about how it's going into today.

51:41

Whenever you keep letting people just do

51:43

the thing, even if you think they're

51:45

very minor, if you kept keep

51:47

letting people do these certain things, they're just

51:50

going to keep coming back and with more

51:52

of a vengeance later on, cause they know

51:54

they can't be, they can't be like, you

51:57

know, uh, taken out of the equation anymore. I

51:59

mean, you said. Dan Enright comes back with

52:01

Jack Barry for the Joker's wild right

52:03

after this. After

52:05

he's lied and, and

52:08

because he was a fall guy, they were just

52:11

like, all right, well, let's just, uh, uh, you know,

52:13

we'll give you a couple of years and then you'll

52:15

be back on a back as a

52:17

producer again. What we don't see any harm in

52:19

that. So we keep seeing, you know,

52:21

people who should probably be sent to

52:23

prison or like punished in some way,

52:26

keep getting away with things. And then it's, and

52:28

it's like, well, they're just going to keep on

52:31

coming up the Annie as they go on further

52:33

on. And then. Well, that's why the

52:36

movie plays today, man. And that's

52:38

happening more than ever. The people

52:40

with money and power don't get in trouble.

52:42

They just keep doing wrong. Yeah.

52:45

Okay. Um, anything else before we

52:48

get into the super secret double feature? No,

52:51

that was, uh, that was a swarthy

52:53

discussion. Yes. Yes, it was.

52:56

Transport yourself back in time and

52:58

explore the fascinating and harrowing story

53:00

of the Titanic's maiden voyage. Now

53:03

open at Kosai. Don't miss Titanic,

53:05

the artifact exhibition. This epic exhibit

53:07

features over 200 authentic artifacts recovered

53:09

from the ocean floor, discover poignant

53:11

passenger and crew accounts and majestic

53:14

recreated interiors, including the iconic Titanic

53:16

grand staircase tickets for Titanic. The

53:18

artifact exhibition are on sale now.

53:21

Book your voyage at kosai.org. The

53:26

very, very quiet secret. What secret? A

53:28

dirty little secret. I tell you something

53:30

I've never told anyone. All

53:34

right. Uh, on the super secret double feature.

53:38

Um, I will go ahead, uh, and

53:40

say that I have long already had a

53:43

double feature for this movie. I've had a

53:45

triple feature with this movie for a very

53:47

long time. And I've had the way I've

53:49

thought about this type of thing. Like

53:51

you could have a triple feature with this, but all the

53:54

president's men is going to be my double feature. Um,

53:58

the red for connection. Just

54:01

think about also Dick

54:03

Goodwin making his investigation, how

54:05

this happens. He's

54:08

going door to door and nobody

54:10

wants to say a thing. They

54:13

are all scared of what might happen

54:15

if they say the truth. With

54:17

Herb Stemple, it's about, I don't, it might

54:19

not get a panel show. All these other

54:21

people obviously have signed like an NDA or

54:24

something like that and they're going

54:26

to get sued if they say anything or something. I

54:28

don't know what's going on with them, but he

54:30

goes door to door and nobody wants to say anything.

54:34

He finally finds the right people who are just like,

54:36

I have to give no fucks anymore. I'm going to

54:38

show you what I did. But

54:41

I think the same thing, it's the sort of the same

54:43

thing with all the president's men. Their

54:46

investigation is so difficult all the

54:48

way through because nobody wants to

54:50

say anything for fear of getting

54:53

not only like in severe trouble,

54:55

but killed over it. And

54:59

it's just the way everything goes. The other

55:01

movie would be JFK. JFK

55:03

has the same sort of deal too,

55:05

even though JFK is, it's

55:08

not as based in reality as these

55:10

other movies are. But I've

55:12

always thought it was interesting that like you had,

55:14

you had, what is it? You

55:18

had all the president's men came

55:20

out during around the time of

55:22

the thing that happened.

55:24

And then JFK came out and it

55:27

was trying to think of the

55:29

order on this. And we're running

55:31

out of time, so I'm not going to go through all that.

55:35

So yeah, anyway, all the president's men is

55:37

my double feature. I love that. I love

55:39

that. I went

55:42

a little different direction. I was trying

55:44

to find a movie match about

55:49

a liar falling from grace,

55:51

basically, is where I started.

55:55

And once I found catch me, if you can, lots

55:58

of things fell into place here. including

56:01

the father dynamic,

56:04

including the soundtrack, a lot of the

56:06

music. We're in a similar era here.

56:09

Both films focused on both

56:11

The Liar and The Investigator.

56:15

And I just couldn't shake

56:17

it once I got on that. I wrote down

56:19

five other movies about Falls from Grace that would

56:21

be good double features, but this one was just

56:23

too perfect. I think the tone is

56:25

similar. And yeah, I

56:29

just think it's a really, really good pair. They

56:31

go hand in hand. So that

56:33

was my super secret double feature. Catch

56:37

me. Okay. So

56:41

Jeremy, once again, we'll be

56:44

gone for the next six months. Enjoy that,

56:46

by the way. I actually, I'll go ahead

56:48

and tell you, I think I hope you

56:50

forget, but I have plans

56:53

at some point in the six months to

56:56

pop in to the chat for an

56:58

episode of Recco.

57:01

All right. I don't know where it'll be, but I'm

57:03

going to do that. But yeah, I'll see you

57:06

guys in six months and I'm

57:08

looking forward to the break. And

57:10

the show is in excellent hands. And

57:14

since Jeremy will not be here next

57:16

week, it is my turn to pick

57:18

again. And we're finally done with the

57:20

decades of comedy thing that

57:22

I started, I think five years ago. We

57:25

are going to go into the

57:30

2020s and this movie just came out

57:32

on BOD and was a small recommend

57:34

a few episodes ago. Hundreds of beavers

57:36

is going to be the big recommend

57:39

next week. And I

57:41

can't wait to talk about

57:43

this movie and all of

57:45

its different aspects and hilarity

57:50

next week. So there you go.

57:52

Good luck with your plot synopsis.

57:54

There may not be much of

57:56

one, that's for sure. Anyway,

58:02

that will that will be that will be next week All

58:05

right. Well, that's gonna do it for for

58:07

this episode once again Thank you chat for

58:10

coming out here and watching us

58:12

talk for an hour about this movie

58:14

and we will see you next time

58:17

Bye guys Be

58:25

a part of the live show by

58:27

being a member of the sin club

58:30

at patreon at patreon.com Cinema sins chat

58:32

with us on the cinema sins discord

58:34

at discord.gg Cinema sins

58:36

or cinema sins Twitter at cinema

58:38

sins and email any comments or

58:40

questions to recotopia at cinema sins

58:42

calm. That's r e c

58:44

o t o p i a at cinema

58:46

sins Getting

58:57

tired of your Like

59:00

on like what are we doing here outtakes for a

59:02

show? This is ridiculous. Come on. I

59:04

see That what

59:06

did you think of the Detroit Lions

59:08

draft Aaron? Okay I'm glad you

59:11

asked because I don't care a flying

59:13

hoot nanny flyer of flyers about

59:16

the NFL draft and it confuses

59:18

me Why people get

59:20

so into it? Like I'm just like I

59:22

looked at the crowds in Detroit and I'm

59:24

just going have we lost our minds?

59:27

This is the draft most

59:29

of these players Will

59:31

never be stars like it's just

59:34

I just I don't know. I have no idea who

59:36

the Detroit Lions drafted I will show up next season

59:38

and watch them play football and go. Oh, that's a

59:41

cool new play Like I just I'm not that kind

59:43

of sports fan Unless

59:45

my team has like the top pick. I

59:47

don't really give a rest. That

59:50

would be the difference Yeah, I know the NFL

59:52

has kind of done a magic trick here and

59:54

turning this draft into an event that people not

59:56

only Watch on television, but

59:58

get like you said gather in bars

1:00:01

and in homes and watch

1:00:04

all around the country and it just

1:00:06

boggles my mind. We don't do that

1:00:08

for any other sport. Like

1:00:12

you said, most of these guys are not going to be stars.

1:00:15

Well, I care more than you guys,

1:00:17

but I care way less than a

1:00:19

person who would want to go to

1:00:21

a live draft would care about going

1:00:23

to the... I

1:00:26

don't care about... I don't watch any

1:00:28

of the mock

1:00:31

draft stuff and people who are like, well,

1:00:33

they could take this guy at whatever. And

1:00:35

I'm like, by the time pick four comes

1:00:37

around, all of your fucking bullshit is going

1:00:39

to be... All that

1:00:41

time you wasted talking about this is going to

1:00:43

be done. And so

1:00:46

I don't get into any of that. I

1:00:48

also don't get into,

1:00:50

well, how did this team do

1:00:52

in the draft or whatever? It's like you

1:00:55

don't know until these people are actually on

1:00:57

the field and how they use

1:00:59

them and all that. There's so

1:01:01

many players every year that you never heard

1:01:03

of in your life that are suddenly the

1:01:05

big stars, the big rookie stars. Like,

1:01:09

oh, did that guy get drafted high?

1:01:12

No, he didn't. Well, if you

1:01:14

just look at the Lions, the

1:01:16

Lions have been said to have

1:01:19

terrible drafts the last several years

1:01:21

or whatever. Those drafts

1:01:23

are why they are good now. It's

1:01:26

like just nobody knows anything. No. It's

1:01:29

like, why are they drafting? They don't

1:01:31

need a running. And it's like, okay, yeah, but look

1:01:33

what they're doing. I don't know. I

1:01:36

guess the only way I do care is

1:01:38

if there are players who are going to

1:01:40

get drafted that I've rooted for. Like, JJ McCarthy,

1:01:42

I was interested knowing how high is he going to

1:01:44

go, because at first he was going to be in

1:01:46

the late teens, and then he was like, he's going

1:01:48

to be the number four pick. And it's just like,

1:01:51

that's interesting to me because I've rooted for

1:01:53

that guy. But other than that, I

1:01:55

don't even know who my team took. I guess that makes

1:01:57

me a bad fan. You

1:02:00

know, you know, I'm within enough. Chris,

1:02:02

do you know who took Marvin Harrison Jr?

1:02:07

Right off the bat. I'll look it up. It

1:02:10

was he was the second pick. No, it

1:02:12

was he was the fourth pick because that

1:02:14

was Arizona. Arizona got him. Yep,

1:02:16

Arizona. I because

1:02:18

the first three picks were all quarterbacks and

1:02:20

then the fourth pick was him. I

1:02:23

didn't figure he would go to the Colts but that's

1:02:28

the only college player I'm even aware of in

1:02:30

the strap. I don't know any other players in

1:02:32

the strap but because I'm a Colts fan. I

1:02:35

know that one of them former Colt has a

1:02:37

kid who was good who is in the strap.

1:02:42

One and making this these guys get caught up

1:02:44

in a lot of other things too. Like the

1:02:46

Titans got a right tackle and they need a

1:02:48

left tackle and they're like, well, how is he

1:02:50

going to go to left? He's a right tackle.

1:02:53

How's it going to be a left tackle? It's

1:02:55

like it's kind of it's not the same. I

1:02:57

understand. It's not the same position. But

1:03:01

let's be clear. Can you are

1:03:05

you saying that someone is incapable of

1:03:07

learning less tackle after being it right

1:03:09

back? Or

1:03:12

someone's playing left field and they're like, we're going

1:03:14

to put you in right. Oh, no. That's

1:03:17

what the Orioles fans did when they said

1:03:19

Jackson Holliday is going to play second. They're

1:03:22

like, he's a shortstop. But I'm like, oh

1:03:24

my God. It's the same fucking position. You

1:03:26

have you have to learn the nuances for

1:03:28

sure. There's no doubt about it. There are

1:03:31

differences in those positions, but to say they

1:03:33

can't just learn and train

1:03:35

and get better at the position that

1:03:37

they're not at usually is absurd. Those

1:03:39

throws are going to be 15 foot

1:03:42

shorter to first base. How will he

1:03:44

compensate? Exactly. I

1:03:48

do love that part in Moneyball where

1:03:50

they're recruiting Chris

1:03:52

Pratt. He's like, oh first base

1:03:54

is easy. We'll teach you tell him. He's like,

1:03:56

it's incredibly hard. I

1:04:00

was always at first in Little League because I

1:04:02

was tall. Yep. They put the tall kids

1:04:04

at first. Why did they do that? For

1:04:06

reach? Apparently, like, you know, you can reach

1:04:08

out and hold your arm out. I

1:04:11

did not play first base. Who

1:04:14

did you play? I played

1:04:16

mostly right field. And

1:04:19

I did play some third base. But,

1:04:23

yeah, right field was the main thing. My

1:04:27

big baseball claim to fame during rec league

1:04:29

is just a big arm. I could throw

1:04:31

it from anywhere and get

1:04:34

to home plate or whatever if I had to. And

1:04:38

so that was why I was in right

1:04:40

field. I could field it pretty good. But,

1:04:42

like, you know, you see how, you can

1:04:44

see how, like, major league players can track

1:04:46

down balls that are over their head. You

1:04:50

know, I'm like, anything that hit over my

1:04:52

head is always good. Yeah.

1:04:56

It's touching down.