0:01

Recovery Elevator, Episode 424. I

0:04

finally said to one of them, I can

0:06

still be fun. I am still fun. I'm

0:09

just not going to feel like shit tomorrow. I'm

0:12

not going to make a fool out of myself tonight. I'm

0:14

going to, you know, I can still

0:16

be fun. I just don't have to be drunk and completely

0:19

obnoxious.

0:20

Uh, like this? Yeah,

0:23

that should work. Mix down. Yeah,

0:27

keep going. Yo, yo. Yo, mix

0:30

down. Yo,

0:33

yo, wiki wiki mix down.

0:36

There we go. Wiki

0:38

wiki mix down. Hi's in the house.

0:41

Ha ha, I love it. Wiki

0:43

wiki mix down. There

0:45

we go. Welcome to the Recovery Elevator

0:47

podcast. My name is Chris

0:50

and I'm happy to be here with you today. On

0:52

today's show we have Abby. She's 49

0:55

from Phoenix, Arizona and took her last

0:57

drink on September 24th, 2020. Nice

1:01

job, Abby. We've

1:03

got some exciting stuff happening here at RE. There's

1:06

an amazing group of people about to take off

1:08

to Costa Rica for nine days of sober

1:10

travel.

1:11

I can't wait to see the pictures from y'all's trip.

1:14

Over Memorial Day weekend, we have an RE

1:16

conference happening in Atlanta.

1:18

For members of our online community, Cafe RE,

1:21

there's gonna be events throughout the weekend, but

1:24

anybody that's you listeners can register

1:26

for the RE Live event that's happening

1:28

on Sunday night.

1:30

And of course we have our annual Bozeman

1:32

retreat that's happening this August 9th through

1:35

13th. Registration for Atlanta

1:38

is open right now and registration for Bozeman

1:40

opens April 3rd.

1:42

You can learn more about these and any of our

1:44

upcoming events over at www.recoveryelevator.com

1:51

and a quick shout out to our chat host over in Cafe

1:53

RE. You all are doing an amazing

1:55

job. Thank you for what you do. Before

1:58

we get started, Here's a word from our sponsor,

2:01

BetterHelp. When you commit

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take more than that. This month,

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I'm celebrating 10 years in recovery and

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and changing and it's important to continue to

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be curious about who we are and how

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we move around the world. Having

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a therapist to process my life has been a constant

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slash elevator.

3:23

All right, let's get into it. The

3:26

other day I was talking to our community manager,

3:28

Carrie, and she noticed that my last

3:30

couple intros had mentioned the endless winter

3:32

here in North Dakota, and I started laughing because

3:35

I knew that this one was

3:37

gonna start the same way. We talk

3:39

about what we know and this is

3:41

what I know.

3:42

Towards the end of last year, my wife and I planned

3:44

a trip for this past weekend because,

3:47

again, we've had snow on the ground since

3:49

the second week in November. We knew

3:51

that we were gonna need a break from this late

3:54

winter. We've done a couple staycations

3:56

the past few years where we've gone on a day trip

3:58

or spent the night away with it.

6:00

that I numb out because I absolutely do,

6:02

but this trip was more than that.

6:04

It positioned me in a way that I could come back

6:06

to my life with a better understanding of my

6:08

goals and the direction that I want ahead. I

6:11

was able to clear my mind of the stress and

6:13

the chaos and see where I want to focus my

6:15

attention. I

6:16

feel refreshed and ready to keep doing

6:18

life with the people around me and I feel like

6:20

I have a clear view of what will be getting

6:22

my energy in the immediate future. I

6:25

say immediate because I also know that life is

6:27

fluid and things are forever changing.

6:29

It doesn't have to be jumping

6:32

on a plane and staying in a different city for a

6:34

whole weekend.

6:35

It could have looked like a lot of things. The

6:37

goal of self-care for me is to help

6:39

me out with my life, not just put things

6:41

off.

6:42

How can we set ourselves up during these

6:44

times to come back in a positive way?

6:47

Some other things that I've done for self-care are

6:50

going on a photo walk, woodworking,

6:53

yard work, breath work or meditation,

6:56

reading, spending time with valuable

6:58

friends, drawing, doing

7:01

puzzles, journaling, or getting a massage

7:03

with my buddy Jim on the beach. For

7:05

me, these things can put me in a place

7:07

of peace,

7:09

but I almost always transition to being

7:11

able to see things in my life a little more clearly.

7:14

Now one more time. I don't want to poo-poo

7:17

on a good Netflix, video game, ice

7:19

cream, or shopping binge, I

7:21

still do that stuff. I've

7:23

got a case of Jenny's ice cream in my garage

7:25

right now,

7:26

but I also know that those things

7:28

don't always fill me up the same way.

7:30

Sometimes it's almost like a miniature

7:33

version of a hangover when I spend too much

7:35

time or energy on these things. I

7:37

want to encourage you to really consider

7:40

what self-care is and make sure that

7:42

you're trying to get some time in that actually serves

7:44

you.

7:45

I know I mentioned connection too, so

7:47

stick around after the interview with Abby if you want to

7:49

hear more about that. You'll notice

7:51

during her interview how important that is to her

7:54

too.

7:55

But before we hear from her, let's

7:57

have a word from Cafe RE. When

8:00

I decided I wanted to pursue an alcohol-free

8:02

life, I knew I didn't want to do it alone.

8:05

I joined Cafe RE almost immediately

8:07

after I found it, and I was so surprised

8:10

at the amount of grace, support, and

8:12

love that was offered to me right away.

8:15

One of the things I quickly realized was

8:17

that I had a lot in common with the people

8:19

in this community, people all

8:21

over the world with similar feelings and struggles

8:24

that understood me.

8:26

Community matters, and lining up with

8:28

people that have the same goal in mind really

8:30

helped me stay the course on my journey, especially

8:33

when I came across bumps on the road.

8:36

When joining Cafe RE, you get 24-7 access

8:39

to a group full of others whose priority

8:41

it is to live an alcohol-free life.

8:44

These groups are capped at under 400 members to

8:47

ensure quality connection. In

8:49

Cafe RE, you'll find that quitting drinking

8:52

can be fun. For $24

8:54

a month, you get access to the community,

8:56

you get paired with an accountability partner if

8:58

you request to be matched, you can attend

9:00

educational online webinars, attend

9:03

in-person meetups, participate

9:05

in book club, movie club, and more.

9:08

You'll also get discounts to retreats and

9:10

sober travel trips. 10% of

9:12

monthly fees goes towards our service project,

9:15

where we work with the nonprofit helping those who

9:17

have been affected by addiction.

9:19

Go to recoveryelevator.com and

9:21

use the promo code opportunity to waive

9:23

the setup fee. Again, use a

9:25

promo code opportunity to waive the setup

9:27

fee.

9:28

I can't wait to meet you there.

9:31

Recovery elevator. Please help me welcome

9:33

Abby. Abby, how are you doing today? Hi,

9:36

I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Thanks

9:38

for agreeing to come on the show. I'm excited,

9:42

excited to visit with you. Uh, can

9:44

you let listeners know how long you've

9:46

been sober?

9:47

So my last drink was on September

9:50

25th, 2020. And I

9:52

use that as my sobriety date. Nice

9:55

job. So that's, hold on. Math

9:58

is real good for me. Like two

10:00

and a half? About two and a half years, yeah. Almost

10:02

two and a half years from the recording date, yes. How

10:05

are you feeling? I feel great. I

10:07

feel free. I like that. Free.

10:10

Yes. Great adjective.

10:13

Before we get into it, Abby, can you tell

10:15

us a little bit about yourself?

10:17

Where you live, what you do for a living,

10:19

hobbies, stuff like that. And then most importantly,

10:22

of course, what do you like to do for fun?

10:24

Yeah. So I live in Arizona. I'm 49

10:26

years old. I

10:30

am single. I have a young

10:32

adult daughter. She's 20. She's

10:34

a junior in college nearby.

10:38

I am self-employed. I do online

10:40

marketing for other small businesses.

10:43

And hobbies and fun kind

10:45

of, I kind of feel like that's the same thing. I

10:47

love to cook. I love to keep my

10:50

body moving. I like to stay active.

10:53

So whether that's hiking

10:55

or I'm trading for a a half

10:57

marathon right now. Um, I

10:59

haven't run in a really long time,

11:02

so that's been a fun challenge.

11:05

Um, I love to read and I'm actually currently taking

11:07

a watercolor class just

11:09

to kind of step outside of my

11:11

comfort zone and do something a little bit different.

11:14

Nice. What do you, like, what do you paint? Like when

11:16

I think watercolor, I think landscapes is that pretty, is that

11:18

typical? Well, I'm trying to figure out how to

11:20

do that, but I cannot draw it. I can't paint

11:23

trees. So I'm trying to figure

11:25

that out. But the class is mostly like

11:27

beginners where we're

11:30

learning how the color works and how to

11:32

get the colors to bleed into each other and things

11:34

like that.

11:35

Maybe I'll make something fun at some point, but right

11:37

now I'm just kind of chugging along

11:39

and trying to figure it out. Well, I can't

11:41

wait to see where this goes. I'll

11:43

be on the lookout for... I

11:46

don't know.

11:47

I'll let you know when I'm ready to share anything

11:49

publicly. Right

11:51

now it just hides in my cabinet when I'm done with

11:53

it. safe place, Abby. Yes.

11:56

All right.

12:00

Well, let's get into it. We're here to talk

12:02

about your relationship with alcohol, what

12:04

that progression looked like and how we got to where

12:06

we are today.

12:07

Yeah. So funny story,

12:10

I did not quit drinking

12:12

because I thought I had a problem with

12:14

alcohol. I thought that what I

12:16

was doing was normal because it was what

12:19

I saw in real life. But

12:22

my sobriety date is in September of 2020, but earlier in 2020 had nothing

12:24

to do with it

12:28

at all because I know that that was kind of right

12:31

in there. I started to

12:33

just not feel right. I

12:36

didn't feel good. I was

12:38

what, 46 at the time. I thought

12:41

maybe I was premenopausal or

12:43

something, but I felt tired

12:46

all the time. I was taking multiple naps

12:48

a day. I was puffy. My stomach

12:50

wasn't right. I just felt

12:53

really off and I've always been, or I thought

12:55

I was I was always a very healthy

12:57

person. I was, I've always exercised.

13:00

I've always eaten really, really well.

13:02

And I was always very healthy and I, or

13:04

I thought I was, and I was, I ate

13:07

really well. So I knew that something

13:09

wasn't right. So I

13:11

saw a functional medicine practitioner

13:14

in early 2020. I

13:16

think it must've been March or so of 2020, March, April.

13:19

And she had me take a bunch of tests. So blood

13:22

tests and urine and all of the

13:24

fun things. And what we

13:26

discovered was I was not actually

13:28

healthy. I had leaky gut, I had some

13:31

major liver issues. I had lots

13:33

of food insensitivities and things

13:36

that were just kind of wreaking havoc on my body. Alcohol

13:39

being one of them, sugar being another one of them.

13:42

And so she told

13:44

me, all right, you're going to have to

13:47

quit alcohol, quit sugar and quit

13:49

this list of foods, very healthy

13:52

foods that I was eating all the time. I'm going to have to, I

13:54

had to quit those for, um, she said

13:56

three months to start. And I thought,

13:58

oh my God, how? I going to do this? I can't

14:01

drink for three months. The

14:03

foods were a totally different issue,

14:05

but just the thought of not drinking for three months really

14:08

scared me. So I made it

14:10

almost three months. I made it. So I started

14:13

end of June or so until my

14:15

birthday, which was in September. During

14:18

that time away from alcohol, I was

14:20

able to look back and to think

14:22

about my behavior prior

14:24

to this leading up to me just not

14:26

feeling right. And in September

14:29

of 2020, I went to Mexico for my birthday.

14:32

And during that trip, it

14:34

was hugely eye opening. I

14:36

started drinking with the purpose

14:39

of getting buzzed and getting drunk. And

14:41

the person who I was with, it was somebody I was dating

14:43

at the time, who knew I quote unquote,

14:46

didn't drink look the way that he looked

14:48

at me. It was, it was, I

14:50

was in shock. He was in shock at how

14:52

much I was drinking, just trying to get drunk,

14:54

trying to get some sort of buzz. I didn't

14:57

have any effect on me. That was super eye

14:59

opening because that's

15:00

how I always drank. So I started

15:02

drinking when I was 14 or 15

15:05

was the first time I got really drunk. I

15:07

was at a New Year's Eve party and

15:10

had four cores

15:12

lights or bud light, some sort of light beer. I

15:14

had four of them and

15:17

was vomiting within maybe an hour

15:19

or so. And the next morning

15:22

I remember my family was having

15:24

people over on New Year's Day.

15:26

And I remember sitting in the bathroom

15:29

as my mom's cleaning the bathroom.

15:31

And I'm sitting there

15:33

with my head down. She had no idea

15:35

that I was drunk the night before until

15:37

she said, oh, rough night, huh?

15:40

And I said, I'm never drinking

15:42

again. And she said, oh

15:44

my God, you were drunk? You drank last night? And

15:47

I said, I'm never drinking again pretty much

15:49

every single time I drank after that. So

15:51

it was just kind of all

15:53

through high school, all through college, lots

15:56

of booze, lots of weed,

15:58

just, you know.

16:00

I would say, you know, quote unquote,

16:02

typical college high school behavior. Um,

16:05

but I don't know that it was necessarily typical.

16:08

I put myself in a lot of really scary situations

16:11

that I was really lucky that nothing happened

16:13

to me. Really lucky that I

16:15

never got a DUI. Yeah,

16:18

it was just very scary. So eventually

16:21

I met my, the person who I, I

16:23

married were no longer married,

16:25

but I met him in 1996.

16:28

So I was 22 or

16:30

so. And he had

16:32

a family history of some really

16:34

serious drug issues. And

16:38

smoking weed was a non-negotiable for him. So

16:40

I quit doing that, but I continued

16:42

to drink. And he and I continued to drink

16:44

together a lot. We

16:47

started, you know, we would drink pretty much whatever

16:50

start end with the wine. You know, we started drinking

16:52

wine because we thought that was class year we would get the Corbett

16:55

Canyon bottles because they were 10

16:57

bucks and they were like twice the size of a regular

17:00

bottle. We

17:00

started drinking that. Trey Lockerbie This is a completely

17:03

unimportant question, but wasn't there like

17:05

a huge ad, like as soon as you say Corbett Canyon,

17:07

wasn't there like a huge ad campaign like in the 90s

17:10

maybe about?

17:11

Probably. That's probably because this

17:13

was the 90s. So that was probably where it came from.

17:16

I don't know. My parents used to drink it too.

17:18

So I think we were just trying to be classy.

17:20

And why Why would you spend money on a good

17:23

bottle of wine when you could drink

17:24

Corbett Canyon for 10 bucks?

17:26

This is going to be my afternoon

17:29

YouTube search and I am 100% putting

17:31

this down in my notes.

17:32

Ignore that. I'll let you know. I'll

17:35

get back to you. I'll send you a link when I find whatever

17:37

that sounds like. I feel like they were like shouted

17:39

Canyon into a Canyon. I don't know.

17:42

I think maybe you're right. Yes. I

17:44

think maybe you're right. There's something.

17:47

There's some core memory that is just screaming. So

17:50

through this, you know, up

17:53

into this point from, you know,

17:55

age 14, up until like 1996 got

17:58

married, you know, you said every Like

18:00

every time you drank, you made

18:02

the declaration, this is it. I'm done.

18:05

I'm just wondering

18:06

that usage was that, you

18:09

know, for some people, it's just capricious

18:11

youth. Just, this is what our peers are doing. This is, we're

18:13

just experimenting. Sometimes there's

18:16

more motivation, whether we're having

18:18

family problems, relationship problems, social

18:21

problems. Have you, have you

18:23

been able to, to correlate it to anything?

18:25

Was it, was it just

18:26

being a, being a young person was there,

18:28

were there things going on that maybe you

18:30

were trying to to numb out a little. I

18:33

think at the time I thought that it was

18:35

this is what we do in our

18:37

teens and our twenties. It was

18:39

certainly what I did and what my friends were

18:42

doing and, you know,

18:44

members of my family were doing.

18:46

Looking back though, I know that it

18:48

was numbing behavior. I

18:51

know that it was me feeling

18:53

really socially awkward and not feeling accepted

18:55

And wanting to be the fun person

18:58

in the room. My nickname was Fun Abby. That

19:02

was my nickname. Everybody would ask me

19:04

if we were going out. Is Fun Abby coming out tonight?

19:07

You know, I mean, because Fun Abby

19:09

was drunk Abby and she was, you know, and,

19:12

and I know it was, I was

19:15

trying to fit in with just

19:18

society with, you know, everyone.

19:21

I don't, I did not feel like I fit in at all

19:24

with anyone.

19:25

I can, I can just imagine,

19:28

you know, if maybe the, and

19:30

this is me projecting my thoughts onto

19:32

your experience, but like, you know, maybe trying

19:35

it just to try it. But then if, you know, to

19:37

have a bit of a reputation or an expectation

19:40

that, Hey, like it's fun, you're fun. You're

19:42

silly when you, when you drink and like a good time to, I

19:45

don't know if, if the right way to say,

19:47

to say it is that the choice was taken

19:49

away from you. But like when you're a kid and people, you

19:52

know, when you're young and people tell you, we like it when

19:54

you do this. Like,

19:55

of course, especially if we feel awkward,

19:58

like we're, want to fit in so

20:00

So if there was a question that kind of takes

20:02

it away, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to perform.

20:05

Yeah. And even after I quit drinking,

20:07

um, and made it clear to

20:09

friends that I wasn't going to drink anymore,

20:12

they still asked me if fun, Abby's coming

20:14

out and when's when is fun, Abby

20:17

coming back. And I finally,

20:19

I

20:20

finally said to one of them, I can

20:22

still be fun. I am still fun. I'm

20:25

just not going to feel like shit tomorrow. I'm

20:27

not going to make a fool out of myself tonight. I'm

20:30

going to, you know, I can still

20:32

be fun. I just don't have to be drunk and completely

20:34

obnoxious.

20:35

That's right. That's gosh, that's

20:39

yeah. God bless our, our friends

20:41

and the people who don't understand that,

20:43

but

20:44

yeah, that's not, if anybody's listening and you have

20:46

a friend who's exploring recovery, like

20:49

don't ask, please don't ask him. Hey,

20:51

when are you going to come get drunk again? Cause that's

20:53

how I like. Yeah.

20:54

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not

20:56

really friends with those people anymore. It's

20:59

a great, it can be a great filter

21:01

for the types of people we want in our lives.

21:03

Yes, yes. Hanging out with some

21:06

of my former drinking buddy friends, when

21:09

I was not drinking was very eye-opening

21:11

for me. It was very

21:13

clear that our relationship revolved

21:16

around alcohol and revolved around

21:18

drinking and all the stupid stuff we were

21:20

drinking. And

21:22

it just wasn't fun for me anymore.

21:24

Yeah. And it's, you know, it's not that these, it's

21:27

not that these people are bad or

21:29

that the relationships meant nothing,

21:32

but like as we grow, we were looking for different

21:34

things and it's okay to say

21:36

that

21:37

it was fun while it lasted

21:39

and I'm going in a different direction. Yeah,

21:42

exactly. Exactly. Well,

21:45

let's get back to 1996, Abby, you're married.

21:49

You're married, you've, you know, you're

21:52

slinging Corbin Canyon all over the place.

21:55

Well, so I actually got married in 98. Okay.

21:59

But yeah.

22:00

Like my now ex

22:02

and I spent a lot of time drinking together

22:05

and eventually I had my daughter.

22:07

So I had her in 2002. I

22:10

had to

22:10

think for a minute, 2002. And

22:14

I didn't drink at all during the pregnancy.

22:18

After I was pregnant though, they said

22:20

that this is probably TMI,

22:23

but they say that drinking beer helps

22:25

with milk production if you're breastfeeding. So

22:27

of course, that was my excuse

22:29

for starting to drink again.

22:32

I kept it really low key when she

22:34

was nursing, but then after that, it

22:37

really picked up again. And eventually,

22:39

well, eventually

22:40

two years later, my ex

22:42

and I got divorced. It was a really, there

22:45

was a lot of alcohol involved in

22:47

the two years prior to that. And

22:50

it was a tough time. I

22:53

kind

22:53

of went off the rails with

22:56

drinking and with, I went back to

22:59

weed. I thought, you know what, I'm not with him anymore.

23:01

I can do whatever I want. I really went

23:03

off the rails in a really, in a really

23:05

bad way and got into a

23:08

not very healthy relationship

23:10

with someone where again, the focus

23:13

was on the alcohol and the drinking

23:16

eventually my ex husband and I decided

23:18

to try again. Cause that's always a good thing. Neither

23:21

one of us had done any work. Neither

23:24

both of us were still drinking. We

23:26

tried again and broke up again

23:28

in about 2009 or so. And

23:31

that was again, a really dark, difficult

23:33

time for me. And I struggled

23:36

like the next 10 to 11 years were

23:38

really a blur. I spent

23:40

a lot of time struggling in personal

23:42

relationships, romantic relationships. I'm

23:45

convinced that alcohol

23:48

played a part in every breakup

23:51

that I have had. I'm

23:53

sure that's not as much of a surprise to

23:55

a lot of people out there, but I mean, it just, none

23:58

of them were healthy relationships because I. hadn't

24:00

done any work on myself

24:02

and didn't care to alcohol

24:05

was my buffer. When

24:07

I went on dates, you know, I, it just,

24:10

it was, it was a struggle. So,

24:13

you know, and that led me up to 2020 when

24:15

I had this eye opening moment that

24:19

I feel like crap all the time. Oh, wait,

24:22

maybe, maybe some of that's

24:24

the alcohol. Maybe.

24:26

Or could it be? Could it?

24:30

I've got a question that

24:33

it feels deep. I don't know. Tell me if it's too deep

24:35

or if it's not deep at all. But with these a series

24:38

of relationships and you know, like

24:40

you said, you feel like alcohol was,

24:43

was a variable in each of them not

24:45

working out as, as they ended.

24:48

What sorts of things were you telling

24:50

yourself about, about yourself? Like how

24:52

was it feeling as, as they were,

24:54

as they were coming to an end and. And

24:57

all right, here's another one.

24:58

Where, where were you in those moments? You

25:01

want to make me cry, don't you? That's why on

25:04

a podcast and yeah,

25:07

I know that that's, I know that's, that's real

25:09

personal, but

25:10

I mean, it was a lot of, a lot

25:13

of, you know, I'm not worthy. I'm

25:15

unlovable. I'm too much. I'm

25:17

not enough. I mean, you name it.

25:20

like every crap

25:22

thing that you can think

25:25

about yourself. I thought about

25:27

myself. I truly

25:29

did. There were a couple of relationships

25:31

in there that were really

25:34

serious. And one of

25:36

them, we actually talked about moving

25:38

in together, getting married, and

25:41

he had a personal circumstance

25:44

that came up and I thought, wow,

25:46

like, I'm

25:48

never a priority. I'm never,

25:51

you know, I'm not worthy

25:54

of somebody's love and care

25:57

because there's always something that's more...

26:00

important and I would drink

26:02

over it. And I would, I mean, I

26:04

literally did. I mean, I became self-employed

26:07

in 2013 and I was a teacher before that. I spent a lot

26:09

of time drinking over

26:14

my students,

26:15

the administration, everything.

26:18

And when I started working

26:20

from home in 2013, I was excited

26:23

that I could drown myself

26:25

in

26:26

drinking every afternoon. And of

26:28

course, it started at five and then it started at four

26:30

and then at two and you

26:32

know, it just was super unhealthy.

26:35

So I was, I was using that

26:37

to deal with emotions from

26:39

every part of my life. That's

26:41

hard, Abby. And I just want to say

26:43

as someone who knows you,

26:45

that you do deserve love and that

26:47

you are a good person. And I'm sorry

26:49

that you felt those things about yourself.

26:52

And the reason, the reason I asked that is I think

26:56

I just want to encourage listeners if you've had, like

26:58

if you're relating to what Abby's gone

27:00

through or you've got your version of it, to

27:03

ask yourself those questions.

27:05

What were you thinking about yourself and how

27:07

have you felt about yourself and recognizing

27:10

some of those untruths? And that, I think

27:12

for a lot of us, how we felt about ourselves

27:15

was a huge catalyst to our relationship with alcohol.

27:18

Because if I'm having this self-hatred

27:21

or I'm not pleased with how

27:24

I'm performing in in whatever arena

27:26

in my life, if I don't know how to cope with that,

27:28

alcohol numbs it. And that's, it

27:30

can help paint the picture of how

27:32

we got to where we are. And for a lot of us, like,

27:35

we just want to know,

27:35

like, how did, like, how did I get here? If we

27:37

find ourselves in this tough spot, like

27:39

how in the hell did I get here? And

27:42

understanding that cycle doesn't, you know, it

27:44

doesn't change anything, but

27:46

it might be a door to show us a little,

27:49

to show ourselves a little bit of grace as

27:51

we try to walk into that healing. Yeah,

27:53

and I mean, to be real,

27:56

the feelings don't go away when

27:58

you quit drinking, you notice.

28:00

thoughts still, you know,

28:02

work their way into my brain. However, I have

28:04

more tools now that I

28:08

can fall back on and because I'm

28:10

not numbing. So there's more things

28:12

available to me, including my wits

28:15

about me, which

28:17

is huge so that I can

28:20

talk myself back from that a little bit.

28:22

And yeah, It's just, it doesn't go away,

28:25

but it, it isn't steeped in

28:27

all of this anxiety and,

28:30

you know, everything that, that alcohol

28:33

lovingly, I say sarcastically

28:35

brings into our lives. Yeah.

28:39

I think that's a, that's an excellent point is

28:42

we, we have tools like we can, we

28:45

can set the bottle down and we can pick up this, this,

28:48

I don't, I don't know why it seems so corny

28:50

to me in my head. this to grab your tools and we're going to

28:52

use our tools today. But

28:54

like, that's what, that's what it is. That's what they are.

28:56

But we have those and it's, it's an opportunity

28:59

to feel those things. It doesn't always feel like an opportunity.

29:01

Sometimes it just sucks, but

29:03

we get to, and it's, it's less, it's, it's,

29:06

you know, hopefully not destructive. I

29:08

want to, I

29:10

want to get to your tools.

29:12

And I do want to ask about

29:14

how things felt during that, that first,

29:17

uh, three month trial, but I just have one more

29:19

quick question before we go into that was I

29:22

know that your daughter is incredibly important

29:24

to you. And before

29:26

we get into the recovery part of your

29:28

story, how was the relationship

29:31

between the two of you while you were still in

29:33

this cycle?

29:34

Good question, because there's so much

29:37

that was so very fuzzy

29:40

during that time. You know, I mean, she

29:42

and I have always had a really good relationship.

29:45

Thankfully, somehow,

29:48

somehow she is the

29:50

one thing that my ex and I did

29:52

write together because she is such

29:55

a great kid and I was

29:57

really difficult, really difficult.

30:00

teenager and so was he, from

30:02

what I understand. I didn't know him in our

30:04

teens, but she was not. And

30:07

she's, you know, I kind of feel like

30:10

she grew up faster

30:13

because I wasn't always

30:15

there for her emotionally because

30:18

my plan as a parent was I wanted

30:20

to grow an independent

30:23

kid. I wanted a kid who was independent,

30:26

and I needed her to be independent

30:30

so that I could do the things that I wanted to do.

30:32

I don't think I've ever said this out

30:34

loud before. But

30:37

I mean, looking back, that's how I feel.

30:40

I just finished

30:42

listening to this book, and the

30:44

title escapes me right now. I'll look it up

30:46

in just a sec. But it was all about,

30:49

like, you know, how we relate

30:51

to our kids is,

30:55

I mean, they take that, this

30:57

has been in multiple books, but, you know, it take, they

30:59

take that into adulthood.

31:01

And I actually brought it up to her the other day

31:03

that, you know, when I was pregnant with

31:05

her, I was, I was filled with

31:07

anxiety and, and I was, and

31:11

the things that I didn't said when she

31:13

was a kid, I feel like she still carries that

31:15

today. And she and I had that conversation a little

31:17

bit just the other day. I think

31:19

she forgives me, but it was, you

31:22

know, I wasn't there for her emotionally,

31:25

but I mean, today,

31:27

we do have a really good

31:29

relationship. And if

31:33

you heard my notifications

31:36

here while we were talking, she was texting

31:38

me. So, we

31:40

do have a great relationship today, but back then, I

31:42

mean, I feel like I missed so much. I feel

31:45

like I missed a lot in her

31:47

youth. There was a time between when my

31:49

ex and I divorced

31:52

and we got back together that my ex-husband

31:55

would not let me see

31:56

our daughter. It was a time for about six

31:58

weeks where he... what I

32:01

was doing, which was destroying

32:03

myself and my life. And he

32:06

would not let me see her.

32:08

He wouldn't let me have the parenting time. He's

32:10

on law enforcement. So I

32:12

was afraid to fight it because I was afraid

32:15

that

32:15

I would lose her. So that was,

32:17

you know, I feel a lot of guilt around

32:19

that. And I have never had that

32:22

conversation with my daughter before. You

32:24

know, I'm glad. I'm glad that your phone was, was

32:27

digging, you know, like you said. Yes.

32:29

She probably needs money

32:31

or something. You

32:37

know, my daughter's a

32:38

bit younger, but I'm grateful for

32:40

the grace that she's shown me and my

32:43

son as well.

32:44

And it's tough. And that's, I think that's, I think that's a testament

32:47

to how far you've come like

32:50

to be like, those are hard. Those are really

32:52

hard conversations to have with your kid. And,

32:55

and to open up the opportunity

32:57

for them to really like stick

33:00

it, not stick it to us, but to,

33:02

to hold us accountable.

33:04

Um, I think that, I think that says

33:06

a lot about who you are as a parent

33:09

and as a person to be willing

33:11

to, to give her that space because I

33:13

think, uh, you know, I've asked my daughter, some

33:15

of that same stuff and it's,

33:17

it's because we want, we want to

33:19

make sure it really is accountability.

33:21

And we want to make sure that if, if they're

33:24

dealing with something as a result of, of

33:27

the way that we raised them or, or things that we

33:29

did

33:30

create a space that they can, that they can walk

33:32

through and heal. So they're not having to deal with the same shit

33:34

that we've had to deal with. You know?

33:37

Yeah. We've had that conversation like just

33:39

about alcohol in general. And I mean,

33:42

I know that she's had a couple of drinks

33:45

here and there. Um, I don't think

33:47

that she's ever been drunk. I don't

33:49

think that she's ever used drugs. I

33:52

mean, I could be wrong. She

33:53

may just not tell me. She's definitely

33:55

not a partier for sure. So,

33:57

but we've had conversations about

33:59

alcohol.

34:00

and family history is on

34:02

both sides and what that

34:04

looks like. And whether, you know, I

34:06

know that there's, you know, maybe

34:08

it's hereditary, maybe it's not, I don't know.

34:11

I think that we definitely inherit things

34:13

based on what we see and what we've experienced.

34:16

And so she and I have had the conversation that, you know,

34:19

if you're going to drink, it's probably

34:21

a good idea to like think about it

34:23

first and to be careful and to

34:25

be aware of what's going on. And

34:28

she recognizes that too. So

34:30

I've brought it up, she's brought it up. So I'm,

34:32

I'm glad we've been able to have that conversation. Yeah.

34:35

My daughter is 16 and

34:39

we, like, we talk about that too. Cause I mean,

34:41

she's kind of like that, that formative

34:42

age where like people are

34:44

going to start experimenting and some people

34:46

already have, and it's,

34:48

oh my gosh, it just, it terrifies

34:51

me. And I know, like, I know, like she,

34:53

she knows about my recovery. She's been

34:56

on vacation with, you know, we've had people from

34:58

recovery elevator, come here and go camping with

35:00

us. Like she knows dad's on a podcast. She tells

35:02

her friends, but like people know,

35:04

but she's still like, she's got to do her thing. She's

35:06

got to live. She's got to experiment and it just scares

35:09

the shit out of me. And that's my

35:11

goal is to just create that space to where

35:14

if that's a road that she wants to travel,

35:16

that she, that she does it as

35:19

smartly and safely as she can, and

35:21

if she finds herself in trouble, that she knows how to get

35:23

a hold of me. It's just,

35:24

it gives me anxiety thinking about it.

35:26

All

35:29

right. We've got, we've got a bit

35:32

of time left. Let's talk. So

35:34

let's go back to, let's go back to where

35:36

we started, Abby. And that I

35:38

want to hear a little bit more about this first,

35:41

uh, three month stint. So you, you

35:43

know, you, you saw this specialist,

35:45

uh, and they told you you've got some

35:48

stomach issues and some liver

35:50

issues and they want you to do this

35:52

cleanse. So when you, when

35:55

you do this, was it, you know, you, I

35:57

think you had mentioned that the food was not not.

37:50

but

38:00

I told my daughter at the

38:02

very beginning what I was doing and

38:04

why, and that I wasn't drinking anymore. And so I

38:06

looked at that. She was my

38:08

accountability because she was living with me and she

38:10

was home full time and neither of us

38:12

were going anywhere, doing anything at all.

38:16

And that was a huge

38:18

incentive

38:18

for me. She was

38:20

what, 17 at the time? And

38:22

so maybe she was 18, but

38:24

it was a big incentive to know that

38:27

she was there, whether she was watching

38:29

or not, or like keeping

38:31

tabs or anything like that, which I don't

38:33

think that she was, but in my head she was. And

38:36

so I knew that if I

38:38

tell her this, that I

38:40

need to stick to it and

38:42

I'm not going to hide alcohol. I'm not going

38:45

to hide things from her. I'm going to

38:47

stick to it. So that was

38:50

kind of my, in those first, almost three months

38:52

that I made it, that's kind of the,

38:53

the, um, mindset

38:56

that I took in all of it. some

38:58

pretty strong accountability that you

39:00

had in place.

39:02

Well, especially since I knew, so she

39:04

was going into college, but she was gonna stay

39:06

home for the first year because of COVID. So

39:09

I knew that eventually, you know, she was

39:11

gonna go and I didn't want her

39:13

to think, I wanted her to know

39:15

that I could keep my word, that I

39:17

could stick to something that I say

39:20

I'm gonna stick

39:20

to, so. That is, that's important.

39:24

All right, well, let's talk, I

39:26

want to hear about like what the last two

39:28

and a half years have been like, but this

39:30

last, uh, the birthday who

39:33

raw down in Mexico was there,

39:35

was there anything that, that led

39:37

up to that? Or was it just, it was just,

39:39

I'm going down for my birthday and I'm, I'm just

39:41

going to cut loose.

39:42

Yeah. I, I told my boyfriend

39:45

at the time it's my birthday and I'm, I'm

39:47

planning to drink on my birthday. He was

39:50

like, are you sure? He was, he drank,

39:53

but I had seen him drink once in the

39:55

several months that we had been dating and that was

39:57

it. So I was like, yep, I'm sure I'm going

39:59

to drive.

40:00

So I did kind of

40:02

eye opening like, Oh crap, this is

40:04

how I drink. I'm a, I just binge. I

40:06

just, I drink to get drunk. And

40:09

yeah, that was very eye opening for me. Uh, when

40:12

we got back, I decided, okay, I'm going

40:14

to, I'm going to cool it for now,

40:16

I'm going to try to make it three months

40:18

again. Well, two weeks later, um,

40:20

I had the biggest month that I have ever

40:23

had in my business. And so

40:26

on the 25th of September 2020, I

40:29

was like, we're going out to dinner,

40:31

really nice dinner. I'm buying

40:33

and I'm having a beer. I drank one

40:35

beer. It was an IPA, Lagunitas,

40:38

I think. And I could

40:40

not function for the entire weekend. I

40:43

only had the one and I

40:45

wanted to have more, but I only had the one. And

40:47

then the entire weekend, I could not get

40:50

out of bed. I was, I was, I don't

40:52

know what it was, but that was it. I

40:54

knew right then, I can't do this anymore.

40:57

You know, the last couple of months of

40:59

me drinking in 2019

41:01

and early 2020, I noticed that the alcohol was

41:05

affecting me differently, and

41:08

I had really ramped up the drinking and just

41:10

making really, really bad decisions. And

41:12

so I knew that day, I'm done,

41:15

this is it. And

41:17

that was it.

41:18

That's weird how like the writing is kind

41:21

of on the wall. And I think, I

41:22

think a lot of us, uh, it was, it

41:25

was the same for me that my last

41:27

six to nine months, like I could just feel

41:29

it. It was different. It like, I felt

41:31

different and just like the things around

41:33

me were, were different. And

41:37

I knew as it was coming to a head and

41:39

I didn't know what that was going to be. But

41:42

so since that, uh, that

41:44

day, since the 25th of September in 2020, What

41:48

did your first like 90 days, six months

41:51

look like? Did you find support? Did

41:53

you just continue to do it on your own?

41:56

Yeah, I started off on my own because,

41:58

you know.

42:00

I don't need AA. I don't

42:02

need anything else. And

42:05

there's such a stigma around AA and

42:07

any kind of support.

42:10

A close family member had quit drinking

42:12

a couple of months before me. So

42:14

we actually only

42:16

really talked about it one time. We've only really

42:19

talked about it one time since, which is kind of

42:21

interesting, but it was nice

42:23

to have a close family member were in

42:26

the same boat as me. It

42:28

felt family get togethers feel

42:30

much more safe and easier

42:32

now, because I feel like

42:35

we used to feed off of each other in our drinking.

42:38

But in November, so like

42:40

a month and a half after the 25th of September,

42:43

I knew I needed some support. I

42:45

needed some connection. Isn't

42:47

connection like the key? I

42:50

think I've heard that once or twice. Yeah.

42:54

So I joined RE,

42:57

I joined CafeRE, I joined

42:59

the Quit the Booze course. I

43:01

met someone in Quit the Booze

43:03

who lives locally and

43:06

she and I went out hiking a couple of times.

43:09

And from there I actually started a sober

43:12

hiking meetup group in my area because

43:14

I wanted to be able to meet more people

43:18

who were sober and in my area. I like

43:20

the in-person connection. So

43:23

I love the chats and all of that, but the in-person

43:25

connection

43:26

is key for me. So I started

43:28

this hiking group

43:29

and that kind of morphed into

43:32

doing some social things together with

43:34

some of the people in the group. I don't

43:36

really host hikes there anymore,

43:39

but I do host some RE-based

43:42

hikes with RE people here locally,

43:44

which is really nice. And then I've been

43:46

to several of the in-person meetups.

43:49

So there was an RE meetup in Atlanta

43:51

that I went to in May of 2021, and I went back again

43:55

in 2022, met some really great people

43:58

at both of those.

44:00

did the service project that someone

44:02

hosted in Denver in

44:05

September of 2022, met more people. I

44:07

mean, it's just been, oh, and you were there

44:09

too.

44:09

And a couple of

44:11

other, you know, there's been a couple of other smaller meetups here

44:14

and there that have really been key, like

44:16

meeting people in person, getting to know people

44:18

in person. And of course we can't all,

44:20

you know, not everyone is sober. So

44:24

when I go out

44:27

with

44:27

people from my gym or people

44:30

I know locally, socially,

44:33

I make sure that everybody knows I don't

44:35

drink.

44:36

And people have asked me some really

44:39

weird questions. People

44:41

have, you know, well, are you an alcoholic?

44:44

Well, why don't you drink? And I tell them,

44:47

I don't care. I mean, I'm just, yeah,

44:49

I'll tell them whatever they want to know, I'll

44:51

tell them a ridiculous story. This is exactly

44:54

why I don't drink and I'll tell them a story.

44:56

And yeah, I've just been very vocal.

44:59

So I am self-employed.

45:01

I actually have my own podcast and

45:04

I've had Paul Churchill on my podcast

45:06

right around my seven month mark.

45:09

I had him on and he shouted me out and

45:11

I've talked about, you know, recovery

45:13

and all of that,

45:15

you know, in my business. And I just

45:17

talk about it because, because it's who

45:19

I am and, and why not. And the more

45:21

I talk about it, the more that holds me

45:23

accountable for staying the

45:26

path. Yeah.

45:27

Yeah. I think recovery is a huge asset.

45:29

And, uh, I give you a huge kudos to

45:31

you for, for being in

45:34

recovery out loud. And, and

45:36

I

45:36

get it, it can feel extremely overwhelming

45:39

and, and scary to think about telling

45:41

somebody. And that's not to say that

45:43

everybody has to, but I

45:45

just encourage people like listen to that

45:48

urge, listen to that little nudge, try it with

45:50

people that you trust. And

45:53

it's cool. It's cool if we get to a space

45:56

where we want to do that out loud. And again, this

45:58

is not to shame anybody.

47:59

with two and a half

48:01

years, around two and a half years, what are

48:03

you doing today to just to

48:05

maintain? Yeah.

48:06

Well, I go to the

48:09

cafe RE chats here and there. I've, I've

48:12

hosted a number of chats last year.

48:14

I set a goal to host 12 chats. I

48:17

think I, I don't know how many I hosted last year,

48:19

but I, I'm pretty sure I exceeded that. Um,

48:22

I'm hoping to do the same this year. That

48:24

really helps to give back.

48:27

I go to meetups when I can.

48:30

I host meetups for, you

48:32

know, RE hiking here in Arizona. I've

48:36

got

48:36

a Marco Polo thread with

48:38

a couple of RE folks. Gosh,

48:41

RE is getting lots of shout outs here.

48:45

And I mean, honestly, and, you know,

48:47

I've been going through, I've been to AA, I

48:51

go to meetings occasionally and I do love

48:54

the RE program, the

48:59

women's way to the 12 steps

49:01

that I've been, and I work

49:04

with, I'm working one-on-one with somebody from

49:06

that group also, which is really

49:08

helpful. Other than that, I

49:10

mean, I

49:11

work from home, I don't

49:13

go out, I love my NA

49:17

beers and my hop water, That's kind of

49:19

my go-to in the evenings, if I feel like

49:21

I want to sit down and relax, but

49:24

it's just about connection. Exactly

49:28

like you said, connection is key. And there's

49:30

a lot of ways to do it.

49:33

For, I think you and I share

49:35

a lot of the same tools with Leanin'

49:38

Heavy into the Cafe RE, Recovery Elevator

49:40

world, but there's other

49:42

things out there. I've seen AA,

49:44

AA is pretty small where I live,

49:46

but in, you know, if I were to travel 70

49:48

miles, they've got a great, like young

49:51

people's AA community. And you know, AA

49:53

is doing some great things. If you're not into AA,

49:55

there's, I mean, there's all sorts of recovery

49:57

programs. And I think the theme.

53:57

understanding.

54:01

The friends we had dinner with we haven't connected

54:03

with for a while.

54:04

Life happens, everybody gets busy, and

54:07

that's okay. But

54:08

the time together was a refresher

54:10

course on the type of people that I want to spend my

54:12

life with. We

54:13

lifted each other up.

54:15

We laughed. We spoke with honesty

54:17

and passion about what's happening in our lives. My

54:20

wife and I are going through a transition right now and

54:22

without skipping a beat we were met with so

54:25

much love and encouragement. I

54:27

couldn't have asked for more support. At

54:29

the airport as we were waiting to fly home,

54:31

the husband texted the group. He was once

54:34

again lifting us up and encouraging

54:36

us.

54:37

These are my people. These

54:39

are the types of folks that I want to do life

54:41

with.

54:42

I want to encourage you to look for these people in your

54:44

lives as well.

54:46

They don't necessarily have to be from the recovery

54:48

world. You can find them in any of your circles.

54:51

Look for the people who are living the type of life

54:53

that you want.

54:54

Reach out.

54:55

Find a connection.

54:57

into those relationships where you can

54:59

build each other up. I know that it can be

55:01

uncomfortable to start new friendships but

55:03

I've also seen the rewards of it.

55:05

Take a chance. Something great

55:08

might happen. We're

55:09

the only ones I can do this RE, but

55:11

we don't have to do it alone. I

55:13

love you guys.

55:41

For starters,

55:44

the alcohol has to go. All

55:48

that fighting the truth purpose stuff,

55:51

being the authentic you, being truly

55:54

happy, None of that can happen

55:56

without you. Don't

56:00

take my word for it. Take

56:02

a look at your past. Get

56:08

clear, be clear on why you're

56:11

doing this. And then, go get it.

56:14

Hey, hey, what's

56:16

really something you?