0:00

Recovery elevator episode 425. Who

0:04

can I help? Who needs help right now? And it doesn't even

0:06

have to be an alcoholic. It could be anybody

0:08

because just the act of getting up,

0:11

going to help somebody, getting out of yourself

0:13

is usually enough to make that go away.

0:16

Like this. Yeah,

0:19

that should work. Mix

0:22

down. Yeah, keep going. Yo,

0:25

yo. Mix down. Three,

0:28

four. Yo, yo, wiki wiki mix

0:30

down. There we go. Seven,

0:33

eight. Wiki wiki mix down. Ties

0:36

in the house. Ha ha, I love it. Wiki

0:39

wiki mix down. There

0:41

we go. Welcome to the Recovery Elevator podcast.

0:43

My name is Paul Churchill, and I am so

0:46

excited to be here with you today.

0:49

Listeners, on today's episode, we have Doug. He's 59

0:52

years old from Buena Vista, Colorado,

0:54

and took his last drink on July 28th, 1982.

0:58

Yes, I said that right, 1982. That's

1:02

also the year I was born, and coincidentally,

1:04

today is my birthday.

1:06

If you wanna know what 40 years without alcohol

1:09

is like, Doug will tell you, and you're gonna

1:11

love the interview. I

1:13

wanna say thank you to all of our Cafe RE

1:15

chat hosts. You guys do an amazing

1:17

job. And speaking

1:20

of Cafe RE chats, I wanna give a shout

1:22

out to Dale, who oversees the chat

1:24

schedules. He makes sure that the

1:26

chats have hosts. He trains the

1:28

hosts, he updates the chat spreadsheets,

1:31

and he seems to sprinkle magical sobriety

1:33

fairy dust on everything he touches.

1:36

Dale,

1:36

big thank you, my man. You've

1:38

been a big part of my sobriety, and

1:40

your Big Reason Cafeery is such a wonderful

1:43

and supportive community.

1:45

Listeners,

1:46

join Recovery Elevator in Atlanta,

1:48

Georgia over Memorial Day weekend on

1:50

Sunday, May 28th at 6 p.m. for

1:53

a fun conference-style event at the

1:55

Marriott in Alpharetta. This

1:57

event is all about getting your Connect on

1:59

and it's gonna. to be a fun time. You can even

2:01

stick around after the event for some silent

2:04

disco. Spouses or

2:06

loved ones are encouraged to attend. Registration

2:08

is now open. Link is in the show notes

2:11

for more information. Thank you, Robin.

2:14

Or you can go to recoveryelevator.com

2:17

forward slash Atlanta.

2:19

I want to give a shout out to K-Mac who just

2:21

hit one year alcohol free.

2:23

K-Mac, I love you and congratulations.

2:26

I am so proud of you.

2:28

Okay, let's get started.

2:31

In our dry January course, I teach

2:33

a class covering the different recovery modalities

2:36

and what recovery pathway is right for you.

2:39

So here's the good news. In 2023, there

2:42

have never been more ways to ditch

2:44

the booze.

2:45

10, 15, 20 years ago, recovery took place in

2:49

church basements with bad coffee and shitty

2:52

donuts. but today the landscape

2:54

is much different.

2:55

Now, side note, last night I went

2:58

to an AA meeting in a church basement

3:00

with bad coffee. I'm not dogging

3:02

that way of recovery at all. I love

3:05

my Tuesday night AA meeting, but there

3:07

are so many more methods, programs,

3:09

or techniques, you name it, that are available

3:12

today, and we're gonna cover them, so here

3:14

we go.

3:15

Now, a couple caveats before we begin.

3:18

Caveat number one, if you're ready,

3:21

Now, ready, in my notes, is an all caps

3:23

and bold. If you are ready,

3:25

any program is gonna work

3:27

for you. If you're truly sick and

3:29

tired of being sick and tired, then

3:32

any of these recommendations will stick. In

3:35

addition, you have to give them a solid

3:37

try.

3:38

I internally, L-O-L, as the

3:41

kids say, when I hear people say

3:43

that AA, smart, or recovery

3:45

Dharma isn't right for them, and they have

3:47

yet to attend any of those meetings. In

3:50

fact, we just caught a good glimpse of alcoholic

3:52

thinking. What

3:53

do they call it in AA? Contempt prior

3:55

to investigation. Caveat

3:58

number two,

3:59

there is no right.

4:00

or wrong way to quit drinking. This

4:02

is where AA sometimes steams my clams.

4:05

Some of the most intense criticism we've received

4:07

at RE has come from AA members saying,

4:09

how could you? AA is the only

4:12

way to sobriety. However, most

4:14

members recognize getting sober is hard

4:17

and that there are other ways that do work for

4:19

other people. In a couple moments,

4:21

I'll give my recommendations, but really

4:23

it's up to you to figure out best what works

4:25

for you. Now when building

4:27

your recovery portfolio, you want to

4:29

keep this in mind. I recommend 50% external

4:34

and 50% internal work.

4:36

Now at first the internal work may be too big

4:38

of an ask. I get that. But as your

4:40

nervous system settles down, you

4:43

want to aim for a balanced split. Now

4:45

here's some quick examples of what I mean when

4:47

I say external and internal. Here's

4:50

external work. Driving to

4:52

an AA meeting or hopping on a cafe

4:55

or a zoom chat. This would be phoning

4:57

a friend or working with a sponsor

4:59

or an accountability partner. This

5:01

is internal work, meditation,

5:04

journaling, reading quit lit,

5:06

stuff like that. Alright, so

5:09

when building out your recovery,

5:11

I recommend this five-tiered

5:13

approach while keeping in

5:15

mind the external and internal

5:18

component of it. Now this is all

5:20

in the show notes as well if you want to see

5:22

them written out there. Thank you Robin.

5:25

So here are the five tiers I recommend

5:27

you hit when building your recovery portfolio.

5:29

Number one, community.

5:32

Number two, action slash movement.

5:35

Number three, inner peace.

5:37

Number four, knowledge. Number

5:40

five, the universe. Alright,

5:42

let's unpack these. The first tier, community.

5:45

Let's talk programs that are community focused.

5:48

This would be AA, Smart

5:51

Recovery, Dharma Recovery, Life

5:53

Ring, Women for Recovery, Cafe

5:56

RE, The Lucky Club, Meetup.com,

5:59

online sober communities. The

6:01

sober thread on reddit.

6:04

Talkingsober.com or

6:06

our sober ukulele, our dry january,

6:09

or our sober photo courses here in

6:11

RE.

6:12

This would be phoning a friend. This would

6:14

be one on one interaction with another person

6:17

in recovery. Meeting with a counselor

6:19

or a therapist also falls under

6:21

this community approach. So I

6:23

feel all of these tiers are important

6:25

but this community one is a biggie.

6:28

In order for you to get the most out of this,

6:30

you need to burn the ships. You need to be honest with yourself

6:33

first and then with the community.

6:36

And here's an equation that almost always pencils

6:38

out in the recovery world. Burning the ships

6:41

radical honesty equals accountability,

6:44

which then inevitably equals community.

6:47

All right, here's the second tier action

6:50

or movement. This would be yoga,

6:53

dance, music, weightlifting,

6:56

ecstatic dance, hiking, stretching,

6:59

running, swimming, drumming

7:01

on your desk. Your body is meant

7:03

to move. Chemicals of well-being,

7:06

such as endorphins, dopamine, and serotonin

7:08

are released when we move. Now three

7:11

times a week for a duration of 20 minutes

7:13

is a good place to start. Let's

7:16

unpack the third tier, inner peace,

7:19

This would be meditation,

7:23

breathwork, sunrises, sunsets,

7:26

time spent in nature, time spent

7:28

with animals, float tank therapy,

7:30

relaxing, chanting, journaling,

7:33

inner child work, singing, playing

7:35

music, painting, writing poetry.

7:38

Now this tier is where you create your

7:41

new life that no longer requires alcohol.

7:44

reason why pen to paper is so effective

7:47

is you can't write as fast as the mind can think

7:49

so writing slows down the

7:51

thinking mind. Alright a little

7:54

bit about animals. Their nervous

7:56

systems are much more intact or

7:58

less frenzied than their

8:00

human counterparts.

8:01

Animals live life from their heart, opposed to

8:03

humans who mostly live and fought. A

8:06

recent study shows that similar amounts

8:08

of oxytocin are released when we hug a dog,

8:11

almost equal to the amount when we hug a human.

8:13

On the flip side to that, oxytocin,

8:16

or the love molecule, is released in dogs

8:18

when we pet them. We can be of service to

8:20

the dogs. So if you're feeling fraught,

8:23

visit a petting zoo, or kick it with

8:25

a pet, or your friend's dog. Human

8:28

nervous systems can attune themselves

8:30

to more stable nervous systems, even

8:32

those of animals.

8:34

The fourth tier is knowledge.

8:37

This is learning. This

8:38

is empowering yourself with information.

8:41

This would be podcasts, quit lit books,

8:43

audio books, learn about healthy diets,

8:46

learn about how the mind works. And

8:48

no, you cannot read yourself or listen

8:51

yourself out of an addiction, but this is

8:53

an important tier. Under this umbrella

8:55

includes medicines from both the East and West.

8:58

Perhaps naltrexone or the

9:00

Sinclair method is something you may want

9:02

to try.

9:03

Naltrexone is a medication that blocks the euphoria

9:06

response when we drink alcohol. Perhaps

9:09

more shamanic approaches with medicines such

9:11

as ayahuasca, psilocybin, san

9:13

Pedro or ibogaine may be right

9:15

for you.

9:16

Here's the fifth tier, the universe.

9:19

Let me be clear, this is not religion,

9:22

but it is the spirituality component of

9:24

recovery. One of the beautiful

9:26

purposes of an addiction is it can

9:28

flex the layers of the ego so much

9:31

that they eventually snap, letting in,

9:33

I don't know, some may call

9:35

it God. When you say lines

9:37

to yourself like, I cannot live

9:39

like this anymore, don't worry.

9:42

The universe is right there with you saying,

9:44

not a problem, let me show

9:47

you the way. Now listeners, go

9:49

slow with this tier. Go slow with

9:51

the universe. This was the last of

9:53

the five tiers to implement itself

9:55

in my sobriety journey. This

9:58

one, most likely,

10:00

is on the universe's clock and not yours.

10:03

But be open, pay attention to the breadcrumbs

10:05

of life and don't be afraid to ask for assistance

10:08

or guidance from the universe at any time.

10:11

In fact, there's a well-remixed line

10:13

that's been floating around for a couple thousand years,

10:15

which is, ask and you shall

10:17

receive. To recap

10:19

listeners, this will be a 50% internal and 50%

10:23

external split. And

10:25

try to hit a couple things from each of the

10:28

five tiers and you're gonna be just

10:30

fine.

10:31

Remember, your recovery is always

10:33

changing because you are, it should

10:36

change. What you're doing now

10:38

for your recovery should look different than a month

10:40

or a year ago.

10:42

Listeners, go to the show notes and take screenshots

10:44

of the five tiers I recommend. Again,

10:47

I wanna say thank you, Robin, for doing the show

10:49

notes.

10:50

And now a word from our sponsor, better help

10:52

before we hear from Doug. In

10:55

a perfect world, we all want to feel

10:57

our best at all times. However,

11:00

through life and recovery, I've had to learn

11:02

to accept the wobbles that come with this journey.

11:05

You've all heard me talk about my dip days.

11:08

For me, managing these has come

11:11

hand in hand with using tools that I have

11:13

learned through therapy. I

11:15

love knowing that I have agency and

11:17

that even when I'm not feeling great, I

11:20

can feel empowered to take positive

11:22

action. If you're thinking of giving

11:24

therapy a try, BetterHelp is a

11:26

great option. BetterHelp is convenient

11:28

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11:30

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11:41

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11:43

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11:45

slash elevator today to get 10%

11:48

off your first month. That's

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BetterHelp, H-E-L-P

11:52

dot com slash elevator. Doug,

11:55

how are you? I'm doing great. Glad

11:57

to be here. Yeah. Fantastic.

12:00

glad to be here as well with you, Doug. I'm excited

12:02

to share your story with alcohol

12:04

with the listeners. Let's get right

12:06

into this, Doug. When was your last

12:09

drink? Well,

12:10

through the grace of God and the

12:12

help of a lot of good friends, I had my last drink

12:14

on July 28th of 1982.

12:17

July 28th of 1982. Doug said he was 19 years old in 1982. And listeners,

12:19

I think four or

12:26

Five months ago, I did

12:28

a drive for interviewees in early sobriety.

12:31

And on this podcast, we set out Chris and I

12:34

to have all different types of

12:36

interviewee on the podcast with different sobriety times.

12:39

But you may have noticed

12:40

that, you know, our sweet spot or our target

12:42

interviewee in sobriety time is probably

12:45

one to three months away from alcohol with occasional

12:47

couple of years in there. But when I got

12:49

an email from Doug that said 1982, two things,

12:51

I was born in 1982. Great

12:54

vintage, right? Great year. And

12:57

I said, dang it, let's get somebody on here

12:59

that has spent 40 years

13:02

away from alcohol or has that amount of time

13:04

logged. I know my pen is ready. I

13:06

know my ear is perked and I'm excited

13:09

to share with our audience, you know,

13:11

what a life

13:12

without alcohol can look like the

13:14

pros, the cons, the ups and downs,

13:17

all that stuff. Because

13:19

I know that's a question that many of us

13:21

get caught up in when we quit drinking is like, do I have

13:23

to do this for the rest of my life? I can tell

13:25

you right now it's not healthy to think about the rest of

13:27

your life when you may be on day one

13:29

or two or day zero,

13:31

but here we are with duck. I am stoked to

13:33

share his experience with you guys, how he did

13:35

it for 40 years. And,

13:38

and, and before I hit record, I was like, how many years

13:40

is that? Oh, wait a second. I'm 40. I was

13:42

born in 82. That's an easy clean

13:44

number. Uh, let's do this. But

13:46

before we get to your journey away from

13:48

alcohol, that story, Doug, give listeners a

13:51

little background about yourself, where you're from,

13:53

what you do for living, your age, do you have a family?

13:56

And most importantly, what do you like to do for

13:58

fun?

14:00

Okay, pretty much grew up around

14:02

the Colorado area. I currently live in

14:04

the Buena Vista, which is about 90

14:06

minutes west of Colorado Springs up in the mountains,

14:09

mostly Denver area growing

14:11

up.

14:12

I was born in Denver actually. Been

14:14

married since August of 1985. My

14:17

wife and I have raised two wonderful

14:19

boys,

14:20

very proud of them. One

14:23

of them still lives here in the area.

14:25

Another one is living down

14:27

in Arizona at the moment. He's

14:29

worked with me in the past. I've done a variety

14:31

of different things in my lifetime. I started out doing

14:34

upholstery,

14:35

which was a trade that I learned

14:37

to do in high school, and

14:39

then moved into kitchen

14:42

cabinet sales, design,

14:44

installations, things like that. I've

14:46

done that for most of my life. And

14:49

then for a few years up here, I built

14:51

some houses with my son, some small

14:53

spec houses. And for

14:55

fun, I'm an avid mountain biker.

14:58

love to do that for a long time. I don't ski so much

15:01

anymore. Uh, but I did that for

15:03

most of my life. I like to ride my motorcycle

15:06

and just enjoy being in the Colorado

15:08

mountains.

15:09

Yeah. Listeners, Doug and I talked a little

15:12

bit about Buena Vista and it is an absolute

15:14

gem into Colorado Rockies. And I

15:16

don't even want to say this because, you know what, but the secret's

15:19

already out. And I told him that I used to

15:21

play middle school football for the mid-turn Patriots,

15:23

which is right outside of veil. And we played Buena

15:25

Vista. And in Spanish, that means

15:28

good view. And not a lot of people

15:30

know or they don't remember

15:33

that that whole area. In fact, that

15:35

area north of Canada was part of Mexico and

15:38

Salida, which is what 30 minutes south

15:39

of you? Yeah, yeah, not even that it's

15:42

about 25. Salida means exit

15:44

in Spanish. And that used to be

15:46

the border of Mexico and America

15:49

in a long time. So the Spanish

15:51

influence, the Mexican language influence on that part

15:53

of the country is really cool and just how

15:56

and the scenery is incredible. Doug, you

15:58

said you've been You were married since 1985. I'm

16:02

gonna ask you for some advice on sobriety, but

16:04

I have been married since 2022. Do

16:07

you have any marriage advice for me? Well,

16:09

a lot of it goes hand in hand. First

16:11

of all, there's no long-term marriage without being

16:14

sober, for me at least. That's just,

16:17

it wouldn't have happened. You know, there's

16:19

a whole litany of things that in my life

16:21

that I'm grateful for, but none of it

16:23

would have been possible without being sober

16:25

first.

16:26

So, you know, the, the,

16:28

the key to it, I think is, is just to,

16:30

uh,

16:31

continue to be willing to, to humble

16:33

yourself and learn and realize

16:37

at any given moment that you might be wrong, you

16:40

know,

16:40

and for marriage, at least it's not a 50 50 deal. I

16:43

mean, if each person's given 50%, it's

16:45

destined to fail, you know, it's, it's 100, 100, you know,

16:48

I have to give it my all. And I

16:50

think that's the most important thing.

16:52

Yeah. I like that. And

16:54

you said none of it is possible without

16:57

sobriety. I imagine sobriety is

16:59

at the top of your list of what's important to you. Am

17:01

I correct?

17:02

It has to be

17:03

at all times. It's just

17:05

understanding that, you know, everything starts

17:08

with being sober because I proved

17:10

to myself that, you know, I would

17:12

just lay waste everything in my life if

17:15

I was drinking.

17:16

Well, Doug, let's get into your story with alcohol.

17:18

Why don't you take us from the beginning, maybe when you started

17:21

drinking, when you recognized it was an issue.

17:24

Did you try to quit drinking at 19 for the first

17:26

time? Take it away.

17:28

Yeah, I'll try and go through it fairly quick.

17:30

So I've been saved time at the end. But probably

17:33

one of the more unusual factors

17:35

in my life, I was I was given up for adoption

17:38

at 10 days old. And it

17:41

became very relevant later on. I'll talk more about

17:43

that in a while how that became important to understand.

17:45

So, so the family that I grew up with

17:48

was was not my blood

17:50

family. I grew up in

17:52

a pretty average normal

17:54

suburban middle class home.

17:57

We've lived in a few different places around

17:59

Colorado.

18:00

with two errant years in Southern California

18:03

when I was in middle school. But

18:04

it was pretty normal upbringing.

18:07

I didn't know anything about heavy

18:10

drinking. I didn't grow up around alcoholism

18:12

or abuse or any of that stuff.

18:14

It was just, it was pretty

18:17

vanilla. So

18:19

I think I'm a real great case study

18:21

for the genetics of alcoholism because

18:24

I didn't have an environment that

18:26

might produce an alcoholic drinker

18:28

just from what I saw and grew up with. My

18:31

first experience with alcohol, amazingly

18:33

enough, or the first thing I kind of remember, I was four

18:36

years old and three

18:38

or four years or times a year,

18:41

my parents would have

18:43

a cocktail with friends usually around

18:45

a holiday or something like that. And I remember at

18:47

four, I was sitting on my mom's lap. Her

18:50

favorite drink was the seven and seven, heavy

18:52

on the seven up and light on the Seagrams. And

18:55

somehow I managed to get a few sips of that

18:57

away from her And I remember

18:59

like it was yesterday, I began to feel this warm

19:02

glow and I really liked it.

19:05

And so, you know, that was it for

19:07

and it was just, it was a memory that came to me at one

19:09

time. And it was like, you know, I think I was

19:11

hardwired to react to alcohol differently from

19:14

the beginning. You know, I believe I was an alcoholic

19:17

from day one. So fast forward

19:19

to when I was 12. I,

19:23

my first real experience with alcohol

19:25

was a buddy of mine and junior

19:27

high had stolen a bottle of Jack Daniels

19:30

from his father's liquor cabinet.

19:33

And after school, we were all going to go

19:35

somewhere else and partake of it. And I kind of

19:38

have to pause for a second and talk about the

19:41

one feeling that I grew up

19:43

with in my entire life. And that

19:45

was that I just felt different

19:48

somehow, I always felt like I was not

19:50

a part of the crowd. I could definitely

19:53

relate and Rudolph where there was the island

19:55

of misfit toys. I just felt

19:57

like that was me and somehow I'd didn't

20:00

look right. I didn't feel right. I

20:02

was you know, the saying goes, I wasn't comfortable

20:04

in my own skin. And I couldn't

20:07

really figure that out at that age.

20:09

I didn't really understand. I just knew that most

20:11

of the other kids I thought were cool and I wasn't,

20:13

you know, fast forward to this day where

20:15

we're at my friend's house drinking a bottle

20:18

of Jack Daniels. Most of my friends mixed

20:21

the jack with, you know, whatever root

20:23

beer, Coca Cola or whatever. I

20:25

drank half the bottle straight

20:27

at 12. And as

20:30

I began to feel the

20:32

whiskey rise to my head,

20:34

there was an audible click that I heard

20:37

in my head. And it

20:38

was like a light came on. And all

20:40

of a sudden,

20:41

I was normal,

20:43

whatever that meant.

20:45

I was even with everybody else. I was

20:47

a part of the crowd. When I told the joke,

20:49

they were laughing at the joke and not at me for messing

20:52

it up. And I thought, wow,

20:54

I want to be like this forever. The rest

20:56

of my

20:58

teenage years, you know, my drinking

21:00

career was fairly short, obviously, because I sobered

21:02

up at 19. And I tell people I didn't drink

21:05

for a long time, but I drank for a good time, you

21:07

know, and so 12, 13, 14, I would experiment

21:09

with alcohol

21:12

or drugs a little bit now and again,

21:14

just whenever I could find it, but wasn't

21:16

really till I was 16. I had a car. And You

21:19

know what one thing that happened when I was in

21:22

Southern California when my family

21:25

was living there my adopted mom passed

21:27

away from breast cancer at an early age so

21:30

we moved back to Colorado because we

21:32

had no family in California or anything

21:34

like that and You

21:36

know just the way I could deal with the grief

21:39

of my mom passing away was was to drink

21:41

and to use drugs So the drug use

21:43

escalated the drinking escalated

21:46

very quickly at that point. I think from somewhere

21:49

late in my sophomore year until

21:51

I sobered up at 19, you could probably count

21:53

on two hands. the amount of

21:55

days that I was actually truly sober or

21:58

clean just because it

22:00

because of my alcohol

22:02

tendencies, my addictive

22:04

tendencies, I produced and, or

22:06

I went into compulsive drinking very

22:09

quickly, compulsive drug use very quickly.

22:11

It was, I just,

22:13

it took off very fast. So,

22:15

you know, growing up as a little kid, I

22:17

spent a lot of time with a couple

22:19

people. My dad was very

22:22

influential on me. And then I had a grandfather

22:24

who was just a salt of the earth

22:26

kind of a guy. He was a farmer

22:28

in southern Nebraska, and

22:31

I spent summers out there a lot with him. And

22:33

he became kind of my mentor

22:36

a lot. He was just, he was a little bit older and

22:39

just a wonderful man all around.

22:41

He was kind, he was compassionate, and he

22:43

became the

22:44

model for me of the kind of person that I

22:46

always wanted to be. He was helpful around

22:48

the town. He was just kind of a pillar of the community

22:51

in this little town that he lived in.

22:53

And as I was getting closer to

22:55

the

22:56

end of my drinking, the thing that I

22:59

hated most about it was I realized that I

23:01

was moving very quickly away

23:03

from becoming the kind of person that

23:06

I desperately wanted to be in my

23:08

grandfather. That my behavior

23:11

and the way I looked at the world, I was just,

23:13

it was moving in the opposite direction. From

23:16

that, I was becoming mean, I was becoming

23:19

angry. You

23:21

know, my behavior was erratic and hurtful

23:24

at times. That was probably the thing that drove me at

23:26

the end was how much damage

23:29

I was doing to other people. You know, these

23:31

moments of clarity that God was

23:33

giving me towards the end was

23:35

just the amount

23:37

of hurt that I was inflicting on other people. I

23:40

didn't really want to do that, but

23:42

I was starting to hang around

23:44

with some legitimately dangerous people

23:47

that were doing very dangerous things

23:50

and harmful things. And

23:52

that was not the kind of person I was, you

23:54

know, meant to be growing up.

23:56

How I got to sobriety... was

24:01

somewhere around the time when I was 16, 17,

24:03

I was really struggling. I was having a hard

24:06

time. I was drinking a lot. I was starting to use a lot of

24:08

drugs and just didn't know

24:10

what to do with all the emotions and feelings that

24:12

I was having. Made a very,

24:14

very lame halfhearted attempt at suicide.

24:17

And through a long chain of coincidences,

24:21

I had a couple of friends that were members of the Alateine

24:23

program. And they invited

24:26

me to come to an Alateine

24:28

meeting to talk about my feelings

24:30

that I was having and the struggles that I was

24:32

having. I thought, well, that means it's a program for teenage

24:35

alcoholics. And I'm like, ah, no, I'm not an alcoholic.

24:38

So they explained to me what it was. And for

24:40

those who don't know, Aletyne is an offshoot

24:42

of Al-Anon. It's for family

24:44

members of alcoholics and it's

24:47

for particularly teenagers who've had

24:49

an alcoholic in their lives that has impacted their

24:51

life in a negative way. I didn't

24:53

have any alcoholism

24:54

in my family growing up, so I didn't really belong

24:56

there, But my friends were like, you know, you need to

24:58

come. It's a place you can talk, you know, you

25:01

can be assured that, you know, you won't hear around school

25:03

the next day, what you were talking about at the meeting

25:05

the night before. And that was very

25:08

true. It was a great place for me to be and

25:10

hang out. And, you know, they talked about the 12

25:12

steps. There was, there was the element

25:14

of spirituality there that, uh, you

25:16

know, I'd grown up in the church, but I'd kind

25:18

of rejected that, um, because, uh, I

25:21

felt like it was just, you know, very

25:23

rigid, you know, God

25:24

to me was a, uh, old man

25:26

on a hill with lightning bolts, you know, that was going

25:28

to take me out sooner or later. I lived by

25:31

the motto for a while that I'm going to hell anyway,

25:33

so I might as well enjoy the ride, you know, and

25:35

that's how I lived for a while. But the other

25:37

thing that was happening in this Alatene meeting

25:40

was once a month there would be AA speakers

25:42

that would show up and tell their story. And

25:45

first I kind of laughed about it, you know, these guys,

25:48

old guys had come in, they talked about how they drank

25:50

and all this. And then as the, you know, this

25:52

was a couple years that this this one on and every time a

25:54

speaker would come in, something would be said and

25:56

I'm like, That sounds kind

25:58

of familiar, you know? And, you

26:01

know, every once in a while, one of them had come in and he'd

26:03

really ring my bells because I'm understanding

26:06

way too much of what he's talking about. So I really

26:08

began to question, you know, what was

26:10

going on in me. You know, I didn't

26:12

want to be drinking and using so

26:14

much. It was kind of interfering with some of the things that I

26:16

like to do, some of the sports that I like to do. But

26:19

you know, it was just this process. I think it was

26:21

providential that I was there and I was hearing

26:23

these stories of these alcoholics because I

26:26

actually began to question whether or not I

26:28

might be an alcoholic. And of course, I would project

26:30

that out of hand right away, because I didn't want to face

26:32

that, that question, but it just got to be more

26:34

and more and more. And then after

26:37

I graduated high school, I moved into an apartment

26:39

with a guy that I knew in high

26:42

school. And it just, you

26:44

know, the drinking and the drug use accelerated

26:46

even more. But in that, I

26:48

was beginning to make some attempts to try and

26:50

moderate, maybe I try and quit for

26:53

some time. What I found was I could

26:55

never fully quit. I was

26:57

attempting to use the 12 steps

27:00

in some fashion that I had learned through Aletyne.

27:04

It just wasn't working. I found that if I could stop

27:06

drinking, the drug use would escalate or vice

27:09

versa. I put together

27:11

in a period of several

27:13

months of this desperate attempt

27:15

to try and moderate somehow, I

27:18

put together maybe two or three days

27:20

where I was actually clean and sober the entire

27:22

time. was because my body had just had

27:24

so much abuse over

27:27

the last three or four years that I just literally

27:30

couldn't do it one day but you

27:32

know, got a day's worth of rest and I was ready

27:34

to go back at it. My drinking was

27:36

never any sort of moderate drinking

27:39

or maintenance drinking. I never did anything like

27:41

that. You know, my whole goal

27:43

was to drink as much as I could, as quick as

27:46

I could or use as much as I could. What

27:49

I was really trying to do was to pass out

27:51

at the end the night in bed because

27:54

what I had figured out was if I went to bed

27:56

and I was still awake or conscious

27:59

I would start to think about And then

28:01

my brain would start to spin and you know, I've

28:03

heard the term blender brain and that's exactly what happened

28:06

to me. And it would just progress

28:09

worse and worse and worse until I'd have to get

28:11

up and do something about it. I'd have

28:13

to drink more or whatever until I could actually just pass out.

28:16

You know, so that process

28:18

just went on and on. Doug, this is

28:20

fantastic stuff. And it sounds like we're

28:22

close to the jumping off point. And before

28:25

we get there, I want to unpack a couple of things. There's

28:27

some similarities I've heard on this podcast over and

28:29

over and over and with my same experience. And that's

28:32

that first drink and you remember it at

28:34

age four at age. There

28:36

was a sensation. You felt like you're hardwired.

28:39

That is a commonality. We all, we all,

28:41

uh, yeah, light up internally. I

28:44

remember in middle school night, my first

28:46

night we finished the whole vodka bottle. I

28:48

passed out and my arm was

28:50

on a very hot pipe

28:52

and it burned. There was a mark on

28:54

my arm and I remember touching my arm to

28:57

this pipe and then removing it and

28:59

I was burning my arm and there was no pain. I'm

29:01

like, oh my God, alcohol is the coolest

29:03

thing ever. And I had all those sensations that you

29:05

felt. And then another commonality is

29:07

that I've heard on this podcast, my own experiences,

29:10

you know, you felt different. You didn't feel like you belonged

29:13

or something was wrong, but feeling

29:15

different. And there was this,

29:18

you said the phrase that you were moving away from

29:20

the person that I wanted to be. I know you

29:22

had a grandfather figure. And

29:24

sometimes that's it. You also said

29:26

there's a moment of clarity with that. And sometimes people

29:28

have that at age 50 or 60, they're moving

29:31

away from the person they had envisioned they to

29:33

be. But can you unpack that

29:35

for a second, that you had a moment of clarity

29:37

or whatnot, and you recognize you're moving

29:39

away from the person that you wanted to be?

29:42

There was a couple incidents where

29:44

I literally,

29:46

you know, I hurt some people pretty badly.

29:48

And I just, I kind

29:51

of snapped out of it and I thought,

29:53

what am I doing? You know, I think

29:55

because I grew up in a home where there wasn't drinking

29:57

and it was trying to be decent. to

30:00

people was kind of the motto there. I realized

30:04

very early in life that I was way out

30:06

of sync with all of that. And

30:09

I just think it was providential that God

30:12

opened up my eyes and I

30:13

saw what a monster I was becoming

30:16

and what I was actually

30:18

capable of with some of

30:20

my tendencies.

30:22

you know, I was pretty

30:24

big and strong at the time. And I

30:27

really did hurt a couple people. And also

30:29

verbally, you know, said things to people

30:31

that was very harmful and hurtful. And

30:34

I just, I was like, wait a minute, that's

30:36

not who I want to be. I don't want to be that person.

30:39

So it just, you know, there's a few times where my

30:41

eyes just opened up. I, you

30:43

know, I consider it, you know, God was just kind of showing

30:45

me where I was headed. Yeah.

30:48

Okay, Doug. So, so pick up where you left

30:50

off. sobriety is right around

30:52

the corner here for you.

30:53

Yeah. So, you know, still, even

30:56

after high school, I was

30:58

continuing to attend these alateen

31:01

meetings just because it was my one

31:03

moment of sanity during my week, you know,

31:06

and so

31:08

in the preceding months, there was a guy that I had

31:10

met, we, we partied together quite a bit,

31:12

and we really got along well,

31:14

and he kind of disappeared. And

31:17

this was the guy whose dad was

31:20

in AA and sobered up when

31:22

he was about two or three years old. And

31:24

so as he was going down the same path,

31:27

he eventually asked

31:29

his dad to help him get sober. So

31:31

his dad took him to a few meetings and

31:34

he began to flourish in the

31:36

AA program. And

31:39

this one meeting of

31:41

Alateine a few months later, he showed

31:43

up and he was talking about

31:45

how much better he felt, how

31:48

he really enjoyed being sober. You

31:52

could see it in his eyes, you could see it in his

31:54

face. Something had changed in

31:56

this guy and he was at peace. He He was the kind

31:58

of guy that was always a very nervous person,

32:01

kind of skittish, you know. And

32:04

he wasn't like that. He was calm, he was

32:06

just sitting there, he looked peaceful

32:07

and rested, and I noticed

32:09

that. So after this Alateen

32:12

meeting, I

32:13

went up to him, talked to him for a while, hey, it's good

32:15

to see you, you know, and I said,

32:17

yeah, I think maybe I ought to, maybe

32:19

go check out one of those AA meetings sometime

32:22

with you or something, and it's like, great, how

32:24

about next Tuesday? And I'm like,

32:27

ah, well, I didn't mean quite that quick, know.

32:29

So for the next few weeks, he was very

32:32

politely persistent about calling me seeing

32:34

how I was doing, checking up asking

32:37

me if I was interested in going to a meeting

32:40

with him. And then my final

32:42

drink was July 28.

32:44

And I remember I went

32:47

with another friend of mine, we bought each

32:50

a 12 pack of beer. And

32:53

by this time, I had already accepted

32:55

an invitation to

32:56

go to a meeting the next night with

32:59

my friend. And so I'm sitting

33:01

here with this other guy and we each

33:04

had a 12 pack of beer sitting in our lap

33:06

and we're just sitting in this living room drinking. And

33:08

there wasn't much else going on but drinking. And

33:11

we'd talk a little bit. And behind this friend of

33:13

mine was a mirrored closet

33:15

door in the living room. And

33:18

I could see myself in the mirror drinking.

33:21

And by this time, I couldn't

33:23

look at myself in the mirror. Like when I was shaving, I

33:25

would have to look at my chin because I couldn't

33:27

stand what was looking back at me in the mirror but

33:30

I was kind of as I'm drinking these beers,

33:32

I'm looking at myself in the mirror kind of glaring

33:35

at myself and and Sort

33:37

of cursing myself for the disgusting

33:39

person that I had become and and every

33:42

time I would take a sip of beer I'd ask myself.

33:44

Why am I doing this and I'd say

33:47

well, it was really hot today, you know It was a long

33:49

day at work, whatever. So after two or three

33:51

of these I went to take a sip of beer

33:53

beer. I asked myself why I

33:55

was taking the sip of beer and I had no

33:57

answer,

33:58

but I did it anyway.

34:00

And I realized it. I was drinking for

34:02

no reason other than I had to. And

34:07

so I went to the meeting,

34:09

first meeting the next night with

34:11

this friend of mine, with that knowledge

34:14

in my head that I had been drinking for

34:16

no reason other than I had to

34:18

drink. And that's where I

34:20

was at. That was the bottom for me.

34:23

Doug, when you had that realization

34:26

that you were drinking because you had to drink or

34:28

you needed to drink, to drink. My head was going up and

34:30

down. I know there's several listeners out there right

34:32

now going, yup. Cause that's, that's

34:35

a rough,

34:36

that's a rough realization

34:37

to, to have because we often justify

34:40

our drinking. Well, all my friends are drinking. It's societal.

34:42

It's what we do. But when you strip

34:44

away all the layers of that, I got

34:47

to the same thing. Holy crap. I'm no longer

34:49

drinking to feel good. I'm

34:50

drinking to feel normal, which

34:53

is an absolute rough spot to be. It's

34:55

also a good spot to be because sobriety

34:58

probably isn't around the corner or jumping

35:00

off point isn't far. So

35:02

you're 19 years old, you're going to

35:04

AA or you're at AA, you

35:07

know, what was that? We got 40 years

35:09

of sobriety to cover here, but you know, what

35:11

was that first month like or that first

35:13

year being at 19? And I

35:16

also have a tremendous amount of respect for people

35:18

who quit drinking early, right? In

35:20

their teens, even early twenties, because there's

35:22

another layer of challenges with that because

35:25

everybody it seems you're drinking is drinking

35:27

in your friends.

35:28

So yeah, what was the what was that first year like

35:30

for the first six months?

35:32

Well, it was it was a whirlwind.

35:34

You know, the first meeting it was just

35:37

I didn't know what to think what to do. I wasn't

35:40

sure in my alcoholic because I still

35:42

had the whole thing about you know,

35:44

this is a matter of willpower. This is a

35:46

matter of you know, it's it's you know,

35:48

a shameful thing to have, whatever.

35:51

And

35:53

so that was my first meeting sitting

35:55

there at this meeting. The most important thing

35:57

was after the meeting I went to.

36:00

friend's house

36:01

to talk to him a little bit afterwards.

36:03

I had a million questions. It's like,

36:05

what's this about? And the most important question

36:07

is, what do I do next? I've been to this

36:10

meeting. I'm pretty sure that

36:11

I don't want to live the way I was living anymore.

36:14

And actually, I really still

36:17

kind of enjoyed drinking. I enjoyed

36:19

the aspect of drinking. What I was really trying

36:21

to figure out was, how do I get away

36:23

from the consequences of my drinking.

36:26

Because if I could just figure

36:28

out how to take a few drinks without acting

36:30

like a moron or without hurting people or

36:32

without getting in a car and driving drunk or

36:35

whatever it was I was doing, I'd

36:37

be great. But I pretty quickly

36:39

realized that there was no separation

36:42

between the two, you know, I've

36:44

done a lot of volunteer work in prisons and stuff

36:46

over the years. And the guys will say, you know, not every

36:48

time that I drank, I got in trouble. But every

36:51

time I got in trouble, I'd been drinking.

36:53

And that was me. That was exactly me. So,

36:56

you know, the next few months was me going

36:58

to a lot of meetings and trying

37:00

to absorb as much as I could of

37:04

the program and how do you live differently. My

37:06

first couple meetings, you know, I'd go and I'd ask questions

37:09

like, how do you stay sober? And I thought, well, maybe

37:11

you stand on your head and say

37:13

the Pledge of Allegiance four times a day in the corner

37:15

or something like that. Or maybe there's a special beet

37:18

juice and turn up diet

37:20

or something that I had to be on or something like

37:22

that. You know, no, It's just, you know, you go

37:24

to a lot of meetings, you start

37:27

trying to learn this different way of life. Douglas,

37:30

in your 40 years

37:32

away from alcohol, I imagine more early

37:34

sobriety.

37:35

Was there ever a voice that said, you know, I've

37:38

been sober for X amount of years, I got this. Or

37:40

was there ever a very challenging moment where a craving was

37:42

so intense?

37:44

Oh, I've had, I've had some, some,

37:47

you know, urges at times, especially early

37:49

on. And I really have to say that it's

37:52

been decades since I've

37:54

had a strong urge to drink.

37:57

It really has.

38:00

the alcohol and the drugs, as far

38:02

as fighting that battle of, you

38:04

know, that daily battle of how

38:06

do you avoid the urge to drink that that's not

38:08

a part of my life anymore. And it hasn't been for

38:10

a long, long time. It's

38:13

just not a battle anymore. So you know, when in

38:15

the early part of the

38:16

years when I did have an urge to drink

38:19

from time to time, you know, there's, I've

38:21

learned ways to deal with that. You

38:24

know, the first thing is to, you know,

38:26

to pray. I mean, ask God

38:29

to remove this urge to drink.

38:31

And in Big Book, it talks about, you

38:33

know, you

38:34

can't just have a vacuum

38:36

in your mind, you can ask God to remove the urge

38:38

to drink, but you have to replace it with something. So

38:41

what I asked him to do is to give me the thought of,

38:43

who can I help? Who needs help right now? And it doesn't

38:45

even have to be an alcoholic, it could be anybody,

38:48

because just the act of getting up,

38:50

going to help somebody, getting out out of yourself

38:53

is usually enough to make that go away.

38:56

Doug, I want to ask you about God, higher

38:58

power. Did that arrive day one

39:01

of sobriety or is this something that over the years

39:03

began to, to unfold?

39:05

So, you know, I like to say

39:07

that I had grown up in church and kind of walked away

39:10

from, from the church aspect

39:12

of things. I always believed

39:14

in God. I never stopped believing

39:16

in God. I just didn't think that he

39:18

believed in me because my

39:21

behavior and my reaction

39:23

to alcohol and what I did

39:25

was

39:26

I thought so repulsive to God that there's

39:28

no way that he could ever accept

39:31

me or love me. And

39:33

so I thought I was doomed. So

39:37

I've always had a

39:38

relationship with God in

39:41

some fashion. It was just that it changed

39:43

drastically when I started sobering up

39:45

because he never abandoned

39:47

me and I realized that.

39:50

He had given me this gift of sobriety

39:52

when I finally came to AA. To

39:56

be honest, I pleaded with God

39:58

for

39:59

a couple of years. years,

40:00

keep me sober, keep me from doing this stuff.

40:03

And it just, it wouldn't work. So I didn't think

40:05

that he was listening. But

40:08

what I came to realize later on was I was

40:10

asking God, please help me. But I was also

40:12

giving him the terms that he needed

40:14

to help me under instead of

40:16

me saying, I'm willing to

40:18

go to whatever length it takes to stay sober.

40:20

I wanted to do it on my terms.

40:22

I wanted his help, but I wanted to do it on my terms.

40:26

Doug, it sounds like there was some inner shame that need

40:28

to be reconciled as in God I couldn't love you,

40:30

why could you? I've

40:32

yet to meet somebody who's been successful

40:34

in sobriety in the long term, who has not

40:37

addressed the self loathing or that inner

40:39

shame. How did you learn to love yourself?

40:42

Well, you know, and I'll be honest,

40:45

it's not a battle that's ever

40:47

over in my

40:48

experience because it comes back,

40:51

I make mistakes. Sometimes I'm

40:53

fairly quick to beat on myself about it for

40:55

a while, but

40:56

I mean,

40:57

God's kept me sober for 40 years. God

41:00

has given me an awesome family.

41:02

I've been able to experience

41:04

all the joy that goes with that. I

41:07

get to live in a wonderful place. We've

41:10

never missed a meal. I

41:14

wouldn't say that I'm wealthy,

41:16

but our business has kept

41:19

the bills paid for a

41:20

long time.

41:21

I think more than anything, it's just,

41:23

you have to turn around and figure

41:26

out a way to count your blessings, like my grandma

41:28

used to say, you know, or find what you're grateful

41:31

for. That's, that's really the, the, the

41:33

weapon that you have to use to combat the self

41:35

loathing is to find something,

41:38

anything that you can be grateful for,

41:41

even if it's just the fact that I didn't take

41:43

a drink today.

41:44

Yeah, I love that Doug. And

41:47

you and me have both heard stories. AA

41:50

has been a big part of my journey,

41:52

especially in those rooms, but you hear them outside of the rooms

41:54

too. Oh, who have people been sober

41:56

for a year? two, three, four, five, 10, 15. maybe 20

42:00

years and then they go back out and drink. What

42:03

do you think that is and what

42:05

advice do you have for people

42:07

that are maybe thinking about going out and drink again?

42:09

Well, I think for those

42:11

who I have known and I have known a couple

42:13

of people that had lengthy sobriety

42:16

and relapse

42:17

and they just held on

42:19

in the back of their mind somehow that there

42:22

was some situation

42:24

that they might be able to safely drink

42:26

again. The big book talks about we

42:28

have to fully concede to

42:30

our innermost self that we're a real

42:33

alcoholic. And there was some

42:35

little sliver of something they were hanging

42:37

on to, at some point that

42:40

they thought there might be some situation

42:43

where they might be able to take a drink again somehow,

42:45

even and, you know, they say alcohol

42:47

is cunning, baffling and powerful, but

42:49

it's also patient.

42:51

And it'll wait, and it'll wait as long

42:53

as it needs to. And I've seen that, you

42:55

know, the, the, the first key to

42:57

me of long-term sobriety is

43:00

you fully concede to your innermost self

43:02

that you're a real alcoholic.

43:04

And you have to figure out what that means. For

43:07

me, I battled with what does that

43:09

mean to be an alcoholic for a long time? Because I

43:11

had the whole thing

43:12

about the willpower and about

43:15

the personality defects and all that stuff.

43:18

It's an allergy. It's

43:19

a food allergy

43:22

in a sense, because if people

43:24

are allergic to strawberries,

43:26

they learn not to eat strawberries and they won't break

43:28

out. You know, I'm allergic to alcohol and I'm allergic

43:30

to drugs. I break out in irresponsible

43:33

behavior, unsocial behavior,

43:36

antisocial behavior, things like that. So

43:39

the problem was I couldn't figure out how to not

43:41

just not take a drink. You know, you don't hear

43:43

people that are allergic to strawberries

43:45

trying to figure out how maybe they can just eat

43:48

strawberries on the weekend and they'll be okay.

43:50

Or maybe if they don't eat strawberries at

43:52

work, you know, or something, it just doesn't

43:54

happen. If you're allergic strawberries, you don't eat strawberries

43:56

and you're fine, but alcoholism has

43:58

this mental component. to

44:00

it where you're compulsive about drinking

44:02

and the obsession of somehow, some

44:04

way, somewhere, it's going

44:07

to be different next time. What

44:09

I heard early on was once you're a pickle, you're never

44:12

going to cucumber. And

44:15

I've learned that I am

44:17

an alcoholic. And what that means is my body

44:19

is hardwired to react differently

44:22

to alcohol. I had to get rid of the whole

44:24

thing about it's a moral

44:26

defect or something like that. Because it's not.

44:29

When I take a drink, my body's going

44:31

to react differently. You know, I've been sober 40

44:33

years, and if I take a drink tomorrow,

44:36

it's going to react exactly the same.

44:38

And I also believe that alcoholism is progressive.

44:41

So if I took a drink tomorrow, I wouldn't go back

44:43

to where I left off at 19. I

44:45

go back to if I was drinking the last 40 years,

44:48

that's where I would go to, just how that

44:50

works. Doug,

44:51

how has recovery

44:54

or the process of quitting drinking, getting sober,

44:56

how has that process changed since 1982

44:59

in the last 40 years for you. You mentioned

45:02

before I hit record that while working,

45:04

you sometimes listen to podcasts and you heard a

45:06

recovery podcast. That was not an option in 1982, 1992, or

45:08

even 2002. So how have you seen the landscape of recovery changing

45:16

and maybe even comment on the stigma?

45:18

The stigma is pretty much the same. People

45:21

that are alcoholics and the things that they do, there's

45:23

still, there's the lack

45:26

of understanding about alcoholism in

45:28

the

45:28

general community is still there. I mean,

45:31

I believe roughly what 10% of the people

45:35

are alcoholic, something like that, I think that

45:37

percentages have never really changed much. The

45:39

other 90% really don't understand

45:41

what that means. It's like, well, you have so much to

45:43

live for, you should be able to quit drinking, you have

45:45

a wonderful family, you have a wonderful You

45:49

have a great business. You should

45:51

be able to understand that you don't

45:53

have to drink, but they don't understand that you just

45:55

can't do that. that

45:57

it's not like that. You have this... mental

46:00

obsession that you have no

46:02

control over when you're in the midst

46:04

of the disease. Doug,

46:05

we are close to the rapid

46:08

fire around here, but there's a couple more questions

46:10

I want to ask you. What are some rules

46:12

that you live by?

46:14

I have to take care of my recovery first.

46:17

You know, I was told very

46:19

early on that if I worry about staying

46:21

sober, everything else will work itself out

46:24

and

46:25

do something every day

46:27

to improve my spiritual life.

46:29

I could go on and on for probably eight

46:31

or 10 podcasts about a lot of this stuff,

46:34

but those are the two main ones.

46:37

I have to, God first,

46:39

recovery and family are all

46:42

right there in the

46:44

second position.

46:46

What's on your bucket list in sobriety?

46:49

Oh, man. You

46:50

know, I've been able to do so much.

46:53

I think just continue to be

46:55

sober until till my last breath. I

46:57

mean, that's, that's it. I

46:59

think with with being sober, anything

47:02

else that I might want to do is possible. You

47:05

know, there's places I'd like to eventually visit

47:07

or whatever, if I can get there. You know,

47:10

I've had the agony and the ecstasy of

47:12

life in 40 years. I've done

47:14

a lot. I've seen a lot, a lot's happened to me.

47:17

There's nothing really glaring

47:20

that I can think of that I just, I

47:22

really have to do that. I've jumped

47:25

out airplanes with all of my family. We

47:27

all went out of an airplane together. I've

47:29

had some success with amateur

47:32

athletics over the years. I was able to win

47:36

some competitions that meant a lot to me. I've

47:39

been able to see my kids grow up. There's

47:41

so many

47:41

many things. Doug,

47:44

this is great stuff for me.

47:46

I am walking in the footsteps of

47:48

you. And as I mentioned, I'm listening

47:51

and I know there was a lot of listeners when you

47:53

said, you know, the cravings, the desire

47:55

to drink has almost been lifted. And that's a miracle

47:57

of the program, a miracle sobriety miracle of

47:59

a... community

48:00

of others who want to quit

48:02

drinking and that I know a

48:04

lot of people in the early trenches other like God I'm

48:06

thinking about alcohol all day every

48:09

day be patient

48:11

that will slowly soften Doug

48:13

we have reached the rapid fire round This

48:16

question to pretend to 30 seconds. That would be great.

48:18

Are you ready? I think

48:20

so Let's do it. Number

48:23

one. What's the one thing you've learned about

48:25

yourself since quitting drinking? I'm

48:27

human

48:28

Love it. Number two, what's

48:30

your best sober moment?

48:33

Oh my gosh. You

48:34

know, there's 40 years worth of things.

48:37

Think of my wedding day and the

48:39

day my kids were born. That's

48:41

right in there at the top. What's

48:44

your favorite alcohol-free drink? Coffee.

48:48

Coffee and water. Doug,

48:50

what's the point of life? To love

48:53

God and do that by serving

48:55

others. What is your favorite 80s

48:58

or 90s band? Well, you know,

49:00

I'm kind of an old guy. So, you know, I picked

49:02

a 70s band, which was Leonard Skinner. Ooh.

49:05

Simple man. Yeah, but in the 80s

49:08

is you two. Gotcha. What

49:10

are some of your favorite sobriety resources? You

49:14

know, obviously the big book, my

49:16

Bible, and then going

49:19

to meetings still on a fairly regular basis.

49:23

And just all the resources

49:25

that are out there, But the big book

49:27

and my Bible are the two main ones. If

49:30

you had a pet raccoon, Doug, what would

49:32

you name it? Well, this is

49:34

from my son Trash Panda. Love

49:36

it. Do you like pineapple on your pizza,

49:39

Doug? I do. All right,

49:41

that's what's up. And what parting piece

49:43

of guidance do you have for listeners

49:45

who are thinking about quitting drinking or

49:47

are entering that process? There's

49:50

no autopilot in sobriety. It's

49:53

a dynamic process. You're

49:56

not going to find a point where everything's cool.

50:00

things situated and

50:02

you're going to be able to just cruise. Life

50:05

is dynamic, things happen, things change.

50:08

It's a constant process of updating

50:10

and changing. And Doug,

50:12

can you give listeners your

50:14

own customized, you might need to ditch the booze

50:16

if line. Ha ha ha. If

50:22

you wake up in the morning, you're

50:24

still fully clothed, including your cowboy

50:27

boots, have no idea how you

50:29

got there.

50:30

And there's a huge lump on the back

50:32

of your head that you have no idea where it came from.

50:35

Probably need to quit. Yeah, that checks

50:37

out for sure. I found out later on

50:39

that I'd fallen out of the back of a convertible.

50:42

Oh yikes. Yeah. Probably

50:45

a little concussed there as well. Yeah. A little bit.

50:47

Yeah. Doug, thank you so much

50:50

for your time for sharing your story,

50:52

your inspiration, your guidance. Thank you very

50:54

much. Much appreciated.

50:56

Well, thank you. You know, there's thousands

50:59

and thousands of other things I'd love to share,

51:01

but you know, it's it truly

51:03

is one day at a time

51:05

for 40 years and continuing

51:09

to stay on the on the road of

51:12

happy destiny.

51:13

One day at a time for 40 years. That's

51:16

the key.

51:17

Thank you, Doug.

51:18

All right.

51:19

Listeners, after the interview with Doug, we

51:21

stayed on the Zoom call for a bit and chatted. He

51:24

told me of a burning bush moment

51:26

he had. I think it was in his first year.

51:29

Doug, I might have that wrong, I apologize. But

51:32

he talks about around 2 a.m., he

51:34

was feeling squirrely, ready to

51:36

drink. And it was in Denver, Colorado,

51:39

near a restaurant called Casa Bonita.

51:41

If you're familiar with the area, you know exactly

51:44

where that strip mall is. Now attached

51:46

to the strip mall was a detox center.

51:49

In his program, he heard that

51:51

being of service, talking to another alcoholic

51:54

could benefit himself. Now

51:56

Doug, feeling the intense throws pangs

51:58

of cravings didn't

52:00

know what to do, so he decided to

52:02

walk down to the detox center. He

52:04

walked into the facility around 2 a.m. and

52:07

asked if he could speak with another alcoholic. The

52:10

person at the desk said, look,

52:12

they're all asleep right now. Noble

52:14

intention, I understand, but right now it's

52:16

not going to happen. At that very

52:18

moment, the phone rang. The

52:21

worker answered the phone, looked up

52:23

at Doug,

52:24

passed the phone over to Doug, and

52:26

well, know where Doug's at today.

52:29

What a cool story. That

52:32

fifth tier, the universe, had

52:34

Doug's back at that moment. Recovery

52:37

elevator, go big

52:39

because eventually we'll all go

52:42

home.

52:43

I love you guys.

53:05

For starters, the

53:08

alcohol has to go. All

53:18

that finding the true purpose stuff,

53:20

being the authentic you, being

53:22

truly happy, none of that

53:25

can happen without the alcohol in your

53:29

life. Don't take my word for it. Take

53:31

a look at your past. Get

53:37

clear, be clear on

53:39

why you're doing this. And then,

53:41

go get it. BANJO