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Denalee: Hey everybody. Welcome to Sophie Box. I'm Nelly, and today we have Javi and Tyler joining us. We're going to talk about the identity crisis happening in the world. Just take a little second to talk about you two for a minute. Oh yeah. Javi is an artist and you just dropped a three ep, Tyler: Three piece ep, Havii: Three piece ep. Yeah. It's actually six pieces. A little bit of poetry in there, a little bit of storytelling going on as well. Very cool. Yeah, came from straight from the chest, straight out the heart. Okay. Denalee: Is that the video that was just released that I saw? Havii: That was the live performance for one of the last song on the project, but there's two other songs there, and then three kind of interlude pieces that kind of tell a story as it goes on. It's definitely something near and dear to my heart. Oh, that's cool. Very cool. I mean, that's where all of it comes from. You got to have it coming from your chest. If not that, then where's it? Whatcha you doing? That's awesome. That's Denalee: Awesome. It turned out really nice. I appreciate that. The part center thing, Havii: That's my man with the master plan right there, hands on. Denalee: What part did you play in it? Tyler: So I did probably some of the production mostly for the interlude pieces. We got the beats elsewhere from tt, but yeah, a doll. The audio engineering, the mix, the mastering did the video piece as well for the live Havii: Performance editing. Yeah, Tyler: Color grade, all the interludes or what is it? Cinema Sound, fx stuff Havii: Like that. We Tyler: Had the Foley. Denalee: I'm with some multi-talented people here who are in the music industry, and it's part of the reason why I wanted to have this chat with you guys is because I think it would be the toughest industry to want to even be part of and still maintain your identity. Oh dude, would that be correct? Havii: Yeah, I would agree there. Yeah. Denalee: I think we can see in the world today that there is an identity crisis happening, whether it's political, sexual, your gender. People seem to not know who they are and gravitating towards these identifiers and making them their identity. So I think I maybe did that for a little bit with politics. Instead of putting God first in my life, I was putting the politics first in my life and thinking I could change the world. You know what I mean? And you can't do that without God. No, Havii: No, Denalee: No. It feels like because I'm older than you guys. I don't know if this feels like this to you, but that the world is getting crazier. Havii: Oh, for sure. That you Denalee: Can feel it too. Havii: Oh sure. Okay. Yeah, Denalee: Absolutely. And people seem to know who they are less and less. Havii: Yeah. They're trying to imitate what they think they should be opposed to actually knowing who they are or figuring out who they are. Denalee: I would say I spent the first 40 some years of my life doing that. Havii: I'm not going to lie to you. It is definitely something to be talked about. You have a lot of influences that go on in your life. So a lot of people, at least with this generation, I know they have a lot of Tyler, our generation have a lot of influences and influencers that kind of push this image of what you should be. You got to be this to be cool. You have to talk like this to be cool. You got to address it, this to be cool, do these things to be cool. And at the end of the day, it's just kind of playing off of everybody's natural want, which is to fit in and be accepted, but you don't need any of that stand out. Denalee: I think you nailed it there to be fit or accepted. But even in my generation, and I don't know that this was maybe a generational problem, but with me, I just wanted to be loved. Havii: That's a huge one. Denalee: And so I became whoever the people I was with wanted me to be for my husband even I thought he really wanted me to be a realtor because he's in the construction business and he built homes, and of course it would all make sense. I did that for him and I did well at it. But really it wasn't who I was supposed to be. But I did so many things for my mom, for my kids who I thought they wanted to be me to be so they would love me. And it wasn't until I really started to be who I was created to be, that I started to love me. And it was fascinating that everybody still loved me. I think the problem that I have and learned over time is it's a journey to figure out who you are Absolutely. And who God created you to be. And the enemy doesn't want us to know, no, even with Jesus in the garden, what's the first thing he says? If you are the son of God, if he's trying to destroy his identity. So that should be a clue to us that the enemy doesn't want us to know our identity. He was going to fail the whole cycle and the whole world that God had promised and that had been prophesied if Jesus would have given into that temptation. So it makes me think about all the temptation that I've given into become, not who God created me to be, but what could the world look like if none of us did, if we actually all fulfilled who we were created to be? Havii: That's actually really funny. In my rehearsal of this sit down, I was talking about some similar points to that. The enemy doesn't want us to know who we are in the slightest amount. If we all did fulfill our divine purpose that God has for us, everybody here has something special that they're supposed to do. He doesn't just create you just because everybody has a role to play. And if we all had, would wake up and fulfill that role, we'd be in some the mix for real. Denalee: It'd be like higher level frequencies, wouldn't it? Oh yeah. Havii: Extremely high. Like you said in the mix. I like that in the mix for real because everybody has something special that they're supposed to do. And you have individuals that are waking up. You have individuals that are actually trying to go for it and fulfill that, but you have to seek that. It's not found in kind of just going with the flow. And I feel like a lot of people, instead of going against the grain, they want fit. I just want feel like you said, loved. I want people to accept me. I want validation. Tyler: Well, I think people more nowadays are seeking pleasure instead of seeking righteousness. People want to be happy. They think it's the pursuit of happiness, but it's really the pursuit in seeking of righteousness in my eyes. Denalee: I think that's how the enemy works to steal our identity is he feeds us, oh, these ideas like this is pleasurable. Drugs, alcohol, money, Tyler: Love Havii: Being loved, it feels good Denalee: Validation, being loved codependency, you name it. And it feels good for a few minutes, but we're always chasing that hit again. And it's like having a toxic girlfriend or boyfriend who it was really awesome the first month. This is your relationship with the enemy. You have this great relationship the first month and you're constantly seeking that first month of that good behavior. And it never works out because it was never going to. No, no. Tyler: I feel like Havii: You guys might not Denalee: At, so I feel like the enemy is this toxic, abusive relationship. Oh. And we start out in that world with him. But when we seek God, it's like we get to leave that abusive relationship adopted into his family. Tyler: But Denalee: I think of a foster kid who they're born into this abusive family and he goes to a foster home where they're really loving and they really want to show him love and really stable relationships and the bigger purpose for his life. But he still remembers that old family and it's comfortable. Tyler: Yeah, that's interesting. Denalee: But if he could fully embrace the family that really wants to love him, Tyler: Well see, it's kind of like seeking comfort and happiness and pleasure and pursuing that and Denalee: The comfort doesn't mean it's good. Tyler: No, no. It rarely is. I feel like, Denalee: No, but once the baby resigns to like, oh, this is good. Love is good when we do with our father, who adopts us into sonship and our identity, Tyler: Absolutely. Comfort is only healthy when it's endorsed by the father. I think outside of that, I feel like you should be pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, go Havii: Against the grain. But Tyler: It's hard. I get it Havii: Not perfect. Denalee: It is hard. Tyler: I struggle with everybody does. Havii: Everybody does. Yeah. It's not something that's just on one person. Yeah, Tyler: Absolutely not. No. Denalee: Have you guys always known who you are? Havii: No. Tyler: Not at all. No. Yep. Denalee: Can you tell me a little bit about your journey of showing up as to finding out who you are? I feel you both have a pretty good sense of who you are now, but there had to have been a time when it wasn't all perfect. Right? The whole thing is we have to search to see that and find Havii: That. Absolutely. Absolutely. So with me in particular, I grew up in a lot of different environments, so not so much people pleasing, but just trying to fit, figure out where I kind of sit. I still don't fully know who I am, not knowing who I am, but I see the vision. I see what God is, kind of the path he's put me on. And as long as I stick to the path, I know that I'm going to get to where I'm going. I know kind of what's at the end of it, but every day is a learning process. Every day is another step that you take to learn more about yourself. And right now, God does certain things to kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? Not necessarily hunker down on you, but with me in particular, I've gone through things where I stretch myself thin. I stay in places longer than I overstay my welcome I guess you could say. And so God is teaching me removing myself from those things earlier rather than later. Denalee: Can you give us an example of what you mean? Havii: Yeah. Relationships, that's a huge one. Some people are brought into your life to be leaves. Some people are brought to be pillars. Some people are just grass that you should step over and kind of walk through. Don't stay, don't lay in it and bathe in the poppies. But I growing up, not necessarily understanding the concept of love and really getting that in a manner that I feel like I understood. I latch on when people kind of show me that I'll latch into it. And so sometimes I'll hold on to a leaf and try to make it a pillar. What that does is it not only hurts me, but it also hurts that person. God wants you there for a second, a split second. You drop the message, you move on, drop the seed, move on. Instead. I'm like, but I can make it work. I can fix it. I can put it together. I can hold it together. And he's Denalee: Like, so you're trying to take God's job? Havii: Exactly. Fixing broken things. I'm Denalee: Familiar, not. I'm not judging. I haven't been that. Havii: Fixing broken things. Fixing broken things. Yeah. My mom, she brought a lot of shout out mom. She brought a lot of clarity to some of the stuff that I've been going through lately. She was like, you love broken stuff. In 2019, I adopted these three dogs, these old dogs that I was trying to take care of. I'm not going to name any names, but some of my exes in the past, you know what I'm saying? Broken stuff. Just didn't have the best home life, didn't have the best upbringings. And I'm like, I can show you better. I can teach you. I can help you. I'm not a teacher. Me trying to go out and teach somebody something is like a piece of chalk. Trying to stand up and teach a class. God uses me as a tool. Denalee: Were you equally oed to these women? No, Havii: Not at all. Different upbringings, different values. Do Denalee: They believe in God? Havii: They say they do to fit the mold. They say they're do to fit the mold to a degree. And I'm not saying again, I don't know fully any of their walks. Each individual has their own walk with him. But taking a step back and actually looking at it objectively instead of being in it Denalee: And wanting it for them Havii: And wanting it for them. Exactly. You can see the inconsistencies. Whereas before I was doing this, I was like, no, no, that's good. It's okay. We got it. But that's not the case. I can Denalee: Totally relate Havii: Right now. I'm in a place of isolation. And I think that's where you truly learn about yourself and where God actually talks to you, the wilderness, the friction. Yep. Amos, Denalee: Well, I think of too, when Paul was just gone for a few years to just learn about God, I feel like that's kind of where he's had me at the last couple years. I haven't hung out with my friends a lot. I haven't done a lot. It's him hanging out with God to build strength and to build me Havii: Sitting in that presence Denalee: So I can be more to the people around me. Havii: Exactly. One of my biggest prayers that I always pray to him is through use me so they can see you. When they look at me, they see you. And in order for that to even be a thing, you have to really figure out, well one, who is he? And then two, who do you want me to be so you can actually use me so you can inhabit this? And when they see me, they see you, both you and I and you as well, trying to get and do things that when they look at your life, when they look over the legacy, it's like not one person could have done that. And you're like, you're right. It wasn't just me by any means. It wasn't just me. So that's where I'm at currently is in the friction, the wilderness, the isolation. And that's where you really figure out who you are. But nowadays, you have a lot of people who just, I can't be by myself. I need the other people. I need the people. Please. I need my friends. I need my family around me. I need all of this stuff. Because it is hard. Denalee: Well, it is hard, but it's the same as needing alcohol, drugs, money. And when you need people, even isolation, even when you need those things so badly that you become a slave to them instead of, oh, who am I in this? Who do I want to be? Who does God want me to be? I really think that's what you just said. You want to reflect him and fulfill your purpose that he has for you. That is our identity. Havii: Light bulb, hitting topics, edit it in light bulb. I'll do that. Denalee: So Tyler, have you ever been, you kind of had a tough time at certain points in your life that you've shared with us actually in a previous podcast even where your identity was a little shaken about who you were versus who you are. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Havii: As a kid, I Tyler: Was a Christian, and I think most people that are raised in families grow up to be religiously Christian and understand that Denalee: I need to interrupt you. I have to tell you this crazy story before you get started. I don't know if you can fit it in there, but it was so weird. He was a Christian at such a young age, he wanted to get baptized and we're like, oh, no, no, that's a lot of work. That means we have to do something. Right? We were like these horrible parents. We didn't know. We weren't as fully where you were, so you were kind of leading us a little bit. Tyler: It was like childlike faith, right? I mean, I was like, this is what it is. Cool. Yeah, I Denalee: Get it. God spoke to you. You get a Tyler: Little older, you hear different perspectives. And you want to be liked specifically in middle school and high school when you want to be a popular, you want to be a part of the crowd. You want to have the fun experiences. And I think I ended up taking that little bit too far where I was doing too many drugs, drinking too much, doing stupid stuff to be liked or thought of as, I don't know, cool or wild or adventurous or that guy, you know what I mean? Mysterious stuff, whatever adjective you can fit. And him. Yeah, literally. And I think it really hit some dark points and I just couldn't understand it until probably about a year, two years ago, right before I met Nicole. And I really found myself, because I went through emotional heartbreak and these things where, and really understanding shame in how it was making me act and how my anger and my self relationship was hurting people around me. And I was putting my identity into the people around me. So whatever they viewed me as was how I thought I was. Their reflection of me was what I thought I was. And I would go home sometimes and sit by myself, smoke a little pot and just freak out over something small. I said something that might've been slightly inappropriate at work to a friend, and I would just trip out and freak out and get anxious and victimize myself and pity myself. And I would think that was me. These things where these mishaps happened, you were a victim. That was me. I was a victim. Yeah, exactly. Denalee: I didn't see, I didn't feel that. But it was your life. Tyler: Yeah. And I remember one time I called you really depressed. I was like, I need help. And you came down, got me a book, the Miracle Morning, and the book was cool. The morning routine book was cool. I think it put me on the right path, but I think in general it inspired me to learn more about developing myself, which brought me to God forward after that and learning about Christ and what it means to have my identity in Christ. Denalee: So the book, the Miracle Morning, we'll put it in the links. It's kind of a book that establishes a morning routine that starts your day off. Good. And I recommended you read the Bible as the portion of your reading, and eventually that did become your Tyler: Habit. Yeah, that's all I read now, so much to read the book you need. But yeah, I think if you are in a spot like that, I would recommend taking the small parts of your life that you can't control during the day, like your morning routine and making that an effort and a priority in your life. Well, Denalee: This is the problem with not knowing who you really are and being somebody else. Or an orange can't be a blueberry. An orange was created to be an orange. A blueberry was created to be a blueberry. Facts. So if an orange tries to be a blueberry, nobody's going to want to eat it. Tyler: No, no. Havii: Be a disgusting blueberry. Denalee: Yes. Because God created us specifically with unique DNA talents, gifts and abilities that we're supposed to. Tyler: Isn't it kind of interesting when you're a blueberry and you try to be an orange, that you're literally defeating what you're trying to do? Yes. You're Denalee: Defeating what your purpose is to be full of citrus and juice. Tyler: You were like got Havii: You. Have a pew. You got skin. Tyler: You're an counteracting. That thing that you want, you want to be loved and appreciated will be yourself for you. Because when you're trying to be the blueberry or trying to be the orange that you're not, people aren't going to like that. They can see through it. It's inauthentic. It's not who you are and it's not your identity. That's Havii: A fact. No, that's a fact. I'm sorry. I just got excited. That was a bar right there. Thank you. I'm not going to lie to you. Appreciate straight up. You got to be. You have to be you. If my mom used to say, shout out mom. My mom used to say, if you're not going to be you, who's going to be you? Tyler: Amen. Denalee: Amen. Because you, yeah, the world needs you. Havii: The world needs you. The world needs you. Tyler: Facts, the world needs Denalee: You. And what happens to you when you're not being you? You just said you were anxious, you had depression. And so we see all these people fighting their true selves. You see them fighting who they are. They're fighting their identity. Whether I need to be careful here for you too, because we'll get in trouble. But you guys know who I'm talking about. There's people out there fighting their identities. Oh Havii: Yeah. Oh Tyler: Gosh. Denalee: We'll call it politically. Havii: We Tyler: Woo. Havii: Who we, that's a topic right there. Denalee: When you're fighting who you were be, I mean, you're going to be suicidal, you're going to be depressed, you're going to feel like you're not. Something's not Tyler: Right. Well, this is the sad part, because people discredit Christianity, right? I mean, where society's at, Denalee: Right? Yeah. Just look at our last reel, Tyler: Where society's at right now. People think it's a fairytale. People don't see the validity in it, the real historical evidence behind it, even outside of that, besides God showing up in your life and giving it a shot. People are just anti that right now. And when you are like that, what is your God? We are made to worship something. What are you worshiping? You know what I mean? Denalee: Are you worshiping your ideology? Are you worshiping? Maybe you're worshiping social media. So I got weirdly involved in politics after Covid, and I hadn't been on, it just wasn't even on my radar. But it started to become who I was. I am this person. This is what I believe, and this is who I am. But it was gross. And I started to feel hateful and bitterness. And I love people. I love people who don't agree with me. And I wasn't loving them. That's Tyler: Great. Denalee: No, I was not. But you could see it too, with all these movements that happen, like the feminist movement. I'll probably get in trouble for this, but it becomes their ideology. It becomes what they worship. And you can see that I kind of followed the movement just recently learning more about it because I grew up with that ideology. That was what you do. Men probably weren't going to always be there for you. You should probably make it on your own. And your man's probably going to leave you at some point. So you don't really need him. But if it works out great for you, but you're just lucky. These are the kinds of things we're taught. You don't need a man. And I can see it coming out so much in social media. No, but it's a lie. It's a lie. Stop telling the girls that it's a lie. It's such a lie. I need my men in my life. I need them for We are a compliment. We are Tyler: Made for each other Denalee: For real. And there's a beauty in it when we come together with each of our gifts. Right. Tyler: Pain Denalee: Agreed. I know. Emotional damage. Yes. But you can see where people can worship that ideology now they belong to something. Well, it's Tyler: Interesting. So there's new age, right? So when I moved away from college and was going through this really hard time, I had separated myself from Christ a little bit. So I grew up Christian, separated myself, started looking at other things like spiritual new age stuff. I was literally astral, projecting like crazy. I'm floating, man. A real experience and looking at crystals and astrology and all these weird things and opening myself up to all these things. And I wonder you're going to worship that ideology as well. It is an ideology. There's no one at the helm. It's like, I mean, maybe the universe, but give God his title, his credit. Yeah, Denalee: For sure. And what was your mental health state during that time? Tyler: The worst. I mean, real bad stuff. I was doing the most drugs. People the worst. Treating myself the worst. Havii: You letting a whole bunch of stuff that's not you in there. It starts stirring your brain up. Denalee: Isn't it interesting when we don't like ourselves how hateful we're to other people? Ey Havii: Dude. Ey. That's a fact. Denalee: Because we're not reflecting our creator. Exactly. We're reflecting the world. Havii: Yeah. Don't reflect the world. The world ain't got nothing for you. World ain't got nothing for you. Even the people that say they for you, nine times out of 10, not all of them, but nine times out of 10, they got noss behind their backs too. Just depends. I want to get back to, I mean, I might get in trouble for this and if I do edit it out, but back to the point on the feminist portion and the women, I could talk about this all day long. I love women first and foremost. I love y'all. I love the ladies. But the thing is, it has been an attack on women since the beginning of time since men and women were created. Satan has understood if I can get her, I can change his ideology. I can change what he thinks. I can change how he acts, I can change how he moves. And if I can do that, then I win. Denalee: Well, I think that's the driving force behind feminism. And I think the devil got this right? The enemy got this right, because what you said is just like in the garden, he used her to influence Adam. Adam, this is what we have. We have a superpower. Women, we have influence. We have to use it for good. We have to use it to lift up and support our men, not tear them down and destroy. Yes. So Tyler: This is the interesting thing. The man is the head of the family, right? But the woman's the neck. Havii: The neck. Turn that thing where Here to go neck. Turn that thing. Ready to go. Oh, that is cool. That's a fact. That's my big fat Greek wedding. Shout out my big fat Greek wedding neck. Yeah, it is. Oh, that's fine. She said I am the neck. I turned the head wherever I want it to go straight. You've Denalee: Got to watch that movie. Tyler: You can watch it, man. Havii: You haven't seen it. Tyler: I haven't. That's a great Havii: Movie. Tyler: It's super important to watch for me because my girlfriend's Romanian, she literally has, and it's a very similar culture's, a great movie. Yeah, Havii: Yeah. Denalee: I do have to say this too, because there's a guy in there where Windex solves everything. Oh yeah. It's hilarious. And so I tease your brother because he thinks the insurance industry is behind all evil. That's Tyler: So funny. And he can Denalee: Tie everything back to the industry. That's so insurance industry. This guy can tie everything back to index Windex. Havii: That's insurance. That's crazy. Yeah. Denalee: Well, you should hear it. It's reasonable too. Tyler: I bet it. I bet. Havii: I bet. Honestly, Denalee: He's incredibly brilliant, but might be too brilliant. Anyway, back to our regular schedule podcast. Havii: It's had to segue there for women real quick. That's been a big one. It Denalee: Is. Well it's a part of your identity, right? Because our identity as women is to be your help me and help. Right? And there's a beauty in that. Havii: Yes. Y'all have so much power. Y'all have the same power that you guys are biting and fighting for. You have it. You Tyler: Have it. Yeah, Havii: We do. It's just how you use it and how you maneuver it. And I understand why it's so difficult to kind of get, not even in line, but just navigate that because you have so many outside sources telling you, Hey, you got to do this. Hey, it's cool to do this. It's not cool to do that. Lemme tell you right now, city girls, it's not cool, sexy red. Hey, you can love the music all day long. It's not cool, man. At the end of the day, you're hurting yourself. You're hurting the people around you, hurting the individuals that do want to actually care about you and love you out of line and out of position, man. And if the enemy get the women, he get all of us. And that's again, shout out mom, my mama, my mama. Be talking just like your mom be talking. We Denalee: Should have brought her in, Havii: Man. Honestly, now that you guys live, I don't know where you guys live at. Oh yeah. She getting invited for Denalee: Sure. His mom lives like two minutes from us. Yeah, Havii: Right. It is crazy on the corner. It's great. It's great. But that's been a big thing for me and just what I've been going through lately. The unequally yoked portion. People just be out of position sometimes. Denalee: So you said a word there that really hit me power. Havii: Yes. Tyler: Yeah. Denalee: Seeking of the power. The power. The power. The power. That is the problem. Yep. We're all seeking power, power, power, not love. Tyler: And it's seeking power without understanding the power that you innately have already Denalee: Have. Yes. And using that power for good. Tyler: Yes, please. Instead of self-serving whatever ideology. Yeah, Denalee: Because what is love? Tyler: Because it feel Denalee: Good. Love is not. Tyler: No, it does not. No Denalee: Love does not. Self-serve. Love does not boast. Love is not pride. Love is not rude. Havii: I need some love. Love is Denalee: Patient. Love is kind. Havii: Where's that? I'm sorry. Edit that out. Denalee: Do not edit that out. That Tyler: Was awesome. Denalee: So anyway, this Tyler: Is already to become my favorite podcast. Denalee: So finding ourselves is so important to our journey of this fulfilled life. We're not going to be happy all the time. No, God didn't promise that, but he did give us a joy that happens when we walk in obedience with him, when we follow the steps that he created for us. And that joy, I do believe as I walk on that path is the freedom from stress and worry. Because I'm like, he put me on the path. It's up to him to make it happen. I don't have to be in control of it. All facts. I get to just enjoy this walk. And there's a joy that comes even when something bad happens. We did just get beat up on social media for a real, we just posted it kind of hurt. It was a lot of hate. Tyler: It was a lot. Really fast too. Really Denalee: Tough. It was a lot really fast in one night. Really? Tyler: Yeah. Wow. Atheist man. Denalee: The atheists really hate us. Tyler: We love you. We love you, we Denalee: Love you. Anyway, about to say but it still for a second. And you're like, okay, God, you said us to this. We just asked that maybe you warm their hearts a little bit. Tyler: And he pours oil on obedience. Denalee: He does. He does. He does. And that is joy. It's God. Like when you do something in obedience and you walk with him and you didn't even know you could do it and then it was him. Havii: Yes. Denalee: I didn't even know I was capable. Havii: I don't work in it guys. Never had an IT job in my life, but I do now. My mom actually had, she does a bible study. I keep talking to my mama. I love your mom. My mom does a bible study and she actually had a whole segment on faith and it kind of rang the same bell just in terms of anointing, obedience and moving in that degree. I just wanted to drop that in that little dime. I don't know where I was going with that. It was good, but it just, Hey, spoke to somebody. Flip a coin, somebody, Hey, if it hits you, it hits you. It's good. Back on track to the regularly scheduled program Tyler: Here. We are Denalee: A dangerous spot. We're a dangerous group for a podcast. I mean the last time I saw you, we talked for hours about Havii: Everything. Denalee: I wish that we Tyler: Could have, I'm attracted to these kind of people. My mother and my best friend, they talk for real and I love it. It do is my favorite. Denalee: There's no shortage of words from anyone here. No, I love it. That's awesome. So as you guys move in this industry and you're actually just building your craft in such a beautiful way, but I see changes in your music and I'm just getting familiar with your music, to be honest. Tyler: I've seen changes in your music. For sure. For sure. Denalee: Have you seen that change as you get to know who you are more? Havii: My music is all experience based. So if I'm going through it, I'm going to talk about it. I use the microphone kind of as a therapeutic instrument. If I have issues, I go to the microphone. If I have a problem, if I'm happy, I go to the microphone. So what I found that I was doing was I was trying to hold on to past self because it was cool and bring that into my current music. And it still sounds cool. It just doesn't fit with the message that I feel like I'm moving towards. Denalee: So the baby going into foster care is having a hard time letting go of the Havii: Family of old stuff, man. Denalee: And embracing the new family. That Tyler: Is so crazy. Literally the same story for me a little bit when I talk about have a little bit more fun of my songs and then get a little rowdier or a little sad boy music when I go there. It is kind of reaching into these old pockets of bad times to fulfill an idea for a song. But does that make me feel good about the song? No. Havii: It's bringing up trauma, Tyler: Man. Because really what I'm doing making music is making it for God. You know what I mean? It's an offering to God. Denalee: Do you feel like your mission is to glorify God with your music? Havii: I feel like my mission is to exemplify him in everything that I do. And if that's through the music, then absolutely. That's something that was a gift. That's something that he gave to me to do. So yes, in whatever manner that is, and I still don't necessarily know the content. All that I know is it has to feel real. I can't keep going back to, oh, this was me in 2020. This was me in 2019. I'm just going to bring him over here because it sounds cool and it's accepted and it's in right now. That's not authentic to what I am currently and what I'm going through currently. And so if you're not putting that at the forefront of what you're trying to do, then Denalee: That is what my concern for you two is. Because there's definitely a more edginess to both of your music that I kind of like. But it also, it could be very difficult to not stay what's popular and stay true to who you are. Tyler: Well, and it kind of goes down to God pours all on obedience. I mean, he'll make it go where he wants it to go. And trusting in him instead of my effort to make my hard music pop. You know what I mean? In a lifestyle that I don't even live. I mean it's all so much cap. I'd be capping in my raps sometimes. Denalee: I dunno what that means. Tyler: I'm lying. Lying. I lie in my music. Havii: No rap cap. You live it. You know what I'm saying? You got to go through it. Now with this though, I feel there's, I don't even feel like you'd be capping for real, man. I feel like it's an old degree of self. You've been through stuff, you've gone through things. You've seen individuals go through things, and that's a portion of music. Not every piece of music is just, I've lived it. It's also perspective at the same time. That's true. So I don't think that it's kept necessarily, but what it is is not currently authentic to who you are. And I deal with the same thing. I'm just sitting here talking to myself too. I be pulling up stuff, ungodly stuff, unholy things. I mean, I've lived a life. I've lived a life of plenty of people. I've experienced stuff both myself and through the eyes of other individuals that not everybody is privy to that. Not everybody gets to experience. So it's hard to let go of some of those things and just leave him over there because at the same time, you still want the validation. You want people to be like, oh yeah, that dude fought. You want that? Love that boy. Yeah, that boy wild. Denalee: You want that love from the world, Havii: But that's not what you need. That's not what you need. Tyler: Part of it too is, I mean, when you're learning how to do something, you have a toolbox what you do. So as an artist, you're used to grabbing these rhyme schemes. You're used to grabbing these words and these concepts in your music that don't really apply. And then you have to find a new voice to where you're at now. And I think that's how you grow as an artist is to be authentic to yourself to where you're at now. And if you aren't growing as a person, your music will stay the same. Or you might be growing, you might just be holding your music back. Havii: That's a perspective right there. Yeah. You holding your own music back. Tyler: Stop your own. So when you were saying earlier about glorifying God with music, and I think there's two ways to do that, or I guess two ways that I want to approach music moving forward. And I didn't mention on the last podcast, I was still entertaining this thought, but it's like I want to make music that worships God and glorifies God and I want to make music that honors God so I can still speak to a different audience and talk about something but still have the spirit run through it because it's still honoring him. But at the same time, I want to make music that for people like me to enjoy as well. Denalee: Sharing your art. Tyler: And I think there's so much pressure on as an artist, so much identity, pressure of being an artist and this is who I am and it's about me. Havii: It's not about you. Tyler: It's not about you. And you take every song so seriously to be like fit this mold of something that you want to do. And it's not that. Just make songs, make music and just move forward. Yeah. Denalee: What if you just change somebody's life in a positive way? What if it's just one person? Tyler: Exactly. Havii: Yeah. That's what it's for though. That's what the art's for. It's all about perspective and perception, man. You don't do it for you end of the day. You got to stay with who brought you to the dance man who gave you the gift. I Tyler: Like that. That's nice. Who gave Havii: You the gift? Stay Tyler: With who brought you to the dance? You Denalee: Find that you fight that at all still? Like today? Oh Havii: Yeah, I have to. Let's Denalee: Talk about the new EP that just came up. Havii: Oh, that one. Oh, that was straight from the chest. Oh, that was straight from the chest. I put God was, you see the crazy thing about that EP too? I did not want to drop those songs because they were so personal. They were so vulnerable. I don't want to talk about that real. I don't want to let that out on the track. People going to look at that and what if they think less of me for that? I'm over here crying. I don't want people to look at me like that. God literally put that whole thing together in a month's time. The beats were purchased at a discounted rate, brought me to Tyler and was like, Hey, we're doing this, man. Yeah, that's awesome. And it just happened. It all unfolded the way it was supposed to. So I'm a big believer in it's going to do exactly what it's supposed to do, just put it in God's hands. And so that's kind of how I'm approaching my music nowadays. As long as it is real and it's authentic to what I'm going through, I'm just giving it to God. But you also have to have that ear. You got to listen for it. You got to listen to 'em. And just like we were about that obedience portion, you got to be ready to move when he says go. Even if it is kind of like you want me to do what? Cry on the track. But God, I was just talking about pow pow in the club and you know what I'm saying? I throw that in the circle. I was talking about that. Now I'm over here talking about some, you hurt my soul, but aside, I'm growing from it. You know what I mean? So it's a stark turn. Denalee: People love vulnerability and authenticity. Love it. Those are Tyler: Tracks that last to be honest. Love Havii: It. That project. I ain't going to lie to you. It's pretty Tyler: Cool, Havii: Bro. It's pretty Flipp cool. It's Tyler: Pretty cool, man. Havii: It is pretty cool. I like it a lot. It's been doing some stuff. It's Tyler: Beautiful. Havii: It's been doing some stuff. That's awesome. I ain't going to hold you. Yeah, Tyler: That's awesome. Check it out. We will put the links Havii: From dusk till dawn. Denalee: We'll put a link in there. Havii: Hobby with two eyes. We'll Tyler: Put the link up. We got the lack performance on the YouTube. Havii: Exactly. And then we got the father can. Yeah. Yeah. We got the fall of pride coming out soon. The fall of pride. We've been over here just brainstorming. And God has been right in the middle of that too, just kind of opening eyes up to vision. And that's a gift in and of itself. Vision. I thought that was a common thing. I thought everybody could see where they were trying to go in life. And this is where I want to be. That's not, I Denalee: Think it's available to everyone. Tyler: Absolutely. Havii: But some people prefer to walk around like this. Denalee: Yeah, the scales, Havii: Right? The scales. Tyler: The scales in your eyes. Yep. Yeah, man, we were on the phone the other day. Yeah. We were just giddy. We were piecing together vision and we were both like, I was giving this vision over what's happening next. Denalee: So I kind of love where this is going because that is our identity. All our identity is found in him. Whose we are and who we are is our identity. And part of that is those talents, those God-given abilities that unique DNA that makes you guys different. And part of our job as parents is to train you up in the way you should go. Now that doesn't just mean with God. That means this is what I have learned from one of my pastors. This is, I didn't want to take credit for that. This isn't just our, you know what I mean? Training you guys up to follow God. It also means when God dumps on us who you are, we are to train you towards your natural talents, gifts, and bents. That's what that scripture fully means. Interesting. That's cool. And so I sometimes see words over people and I saw music over him and I knew it, and we kind of went all in. I'm like, okay, that's from God. I didn't come up with that for sure. And what kind of parent wants their kid to drop out of college to pursue music? Tyler: How blessed am I to have a mom, parents that understand that I was going to Boise State for a semester learning, marketing and business and I didn't really know and I was learning how to make beats then. And they're like, do you want to go to school for this? And I'm like, what? Oh my gosh. Yes. Please. Yes. Thank you for Denalee: We just saw it on you. Tyler: Yeah, thank you for, Denalee: And I don't know how we saw it because I'm telling you, it was just like one noise at a time in the back room. Tyler: Really? One snare. Havii: I'm getting there, Denalee: But it was, hold on. We were like, don't happen. Maybe he should do this. And my husband's going, are you sure? Are you sure? Havii: He says, you don't hear that. Denalee: That's our job as parents is to see our children's identity. Havii: Right? Yeah. And to Denalee: Move them towards God in that. Havii: Yes. That was awesome. Well, Denalee: That was, you have a little one, Havii: Right? I do indeed have a small little mini me. I want to call him a little mini me. I don't know what he going to turn into, but yeah. Amen. Absolutely. Denalee: Amen. Because where we mess up as parents is we have things we want for them. Havii: I'm like, man, you could be water polo, badminton, whatever you want to do, my guy, just do it. Do it. Try stuff. As long as you staying safe, morally, ethically, and physically, just stay safe. Understand where you came from and understand that you do have a purpose on this earth and we all serve the same God. So just know who you are. Get brought up young. You a warrior in Christ, man. You got to know where you come from. But that's just my clan. That's how we operate. But with him in particular. Oh yeah. I'm like, go try stuff. Be free. That's Denalee: Cool. Put your toe in the water. See who God wants you to be. You got to try stuff. You got to figure out here. And I think even at my age, there's no way we wanted to do this podcast to be, honestly, it started from you. I want to do this podcast. We didn't at the beginning. It was kind of an accident. What? Well, we started this blog. You so good at it. Oh, you're so sweet. It's the truth though. So kind. Don't stop the truth. Havii: Keep it up. Just joking. Tyler: Yeah. Denalee: So we started this content blog because I had built some over the years and we've made some money on 'em and we really put a lot of time and effort into it, especially you wrote a ton of content and Google kept snagging us telling us it was ai. And I'm like, I just poured my life out on this. This is not ai. Havii: You're not real. Yeah, Tyler: You're not real. Havii: You're not real. Like Denalee: What? And I'm like, okay, so this isn't going well. Tyler: You're not real. Yeah. What Havii: Do you mean? Hold Denalee: On. Exactly Tyler: What the not real things tell me. I'm not real real. Havii: For real. What is real? What is going on? Denalee: Well, the whole point was is we wanted to connect with people and teach them what we've learned in life and bring other people even as guest writers who might know more than us on a subject that we wanted to learn more about. Of course that makes more sense for a podcast format now looking back on it. But we thought we just kind of got freaked out. We had a year into it, dude. And we were getting in trouble with Google and I'm like, Tyler, what are we going to do? We both go, maybe we should try a podcast so we can connect with people. Yeah, Tyler: Because the name of the game right now, I feel like, and to be honest, I'm really happy we did chase the blog content because the content we were writing kind of prepared us for this. It Denalee: Did, but it also, it's like we're putting one foot in front of the other where God wants us. Did I ever, in my wildest dreams, think I would be speaking on a podcast when I don't even speak clearly? No, but you know what I do? I bring on awesome guests. Yeah. Havii: I think you speak very clearly. A matter of fact, you're a fantastic host. Denalee: Oh, thank you so much. I am working on it because I can see as we started editing, it's really not a natural gift for me, but I'm having a lot of fun doing it. Havii: I think that's the name of it though. You got to try stuff. You got to experiment with things. Exactly. Exactly. And as long as you're having fun doing it and it's enjoyable to you, that's going to shine through more than somebody that has the gift. And it's just like, I'm good at this and I know I'm good at it. Denalee: Do you know how many times I think of Moses who didn't want to lead the people because he couldn't speak? Havii: I think of that Denalee: Every podcast we do, I think, okay, Moses did this. He got up and spoke even though he didn't think he could. Tyler: Yeah. So for me, doing concerts and shows, speaking to an audience is not my natural gifting. I get nervous or speaking. This is not my natural thing too. But it's funny that you brought up the Moses thing. It is kind of inspiring that he could, Denalee: God can do, he can do whatever God is good. And hopefully we have a forgiving viewership. Havii: Yeah, it's good. Yeah, Denalee: God is. And it's just having fun with us and hopefully we bring something to you. And that's the whole point of the podcast is there's a lot of people out there alone and isolated in the world. And hopefully that maybe we can connect with them so they don't feel so alone. Or maybe they can learn from us or maybe they can teach us something in the comments. Maybe not last night's comments. I'm going to say they're pretty harsh. Havii: Stop being mean to these people, man. Yeah. Listen here. All Denalee: Those ones are a lot easier to take than the ones that pick on your physical appearance Havii: Because say something, say something. Dare say something. Say something. Daddy Denalee: Shouldn't even have said that. Cut that up. Now that I've just egged them on to do it, Havii: Say something. Denalee: I dare you. You know what? The more you say something about my lips or my nose, the more I'm going to embrace them. Havii: Embrace it. That just means you're doing something right. The Tyler: More I'm going to have to learn to accept it. Exactly. Denalee: The more I'm going to have to accept who I Havii: Am. I love me. Speaking Tyler: Of Havii: Identity, God loves me. There it is. All right. Ain't nothing you can say that's going to shade me or shake me. Denalee: It was kind of interesting. I saw this girl on my social media feed yesterday and she was getting beat up. She's pretty popular. And I'm friends with her on a different platform. Her and she's a beautiful woman and there's a bunch of men picking on her because of her nose. And so she goes, I'm just going to put it out there. Just say it's a free for all. Say what you want to do about my nose and let's just get over it so we can move it back onto the issues. Tyler: That's crazy. Denalee: It was so Tyler: Interesting. But keyboard gangsters thinking their opinion matters. Havii: Yes. Your nose is, Tyler: You really don't have anything better to do with your time Havii: For real, man. Or listen, how about you actually listen and get something from it. Yeah. Tyler: Why don't you try and learn a little bit. Exactly. Havii: The Denalee: Beauty of it is by the end, I think she saw who she really was because everyone showed up and said, you're beautiful. You're perfectly and wonderfully made. You are exactly who you're supposed to be. And it actually inspired me be like, okay, so I'm a little bit older doing a podcast. Everyone's young and I'm 51, but these are the things that go through your head. But these are the things that go through your head. And I'm like, she should be doing what she's doing and I'm doing what I'm doing. Havii: And you should be doing what you're doing. Yeah. Denalee: It's interesting. It's interesting world we live in where so much is about how beautiful you are. Oh, yes. Or Tyler: The youth, they're always going to try and put you in a box. Always. Everybody's going to keep trying to put you in a box. Havii: That's why they hate us. You can't do it. You can't do it. Ain't Denalee: Do it. The young women where this is just so important. Dude, I'm 51. I kind of know. I mean, I'm pretty realistic about where I'm at in the whole scheme of my years. And it's not important to me as much. Yeah. You know what I mean? I want to look as nice as I can, but I am me natural. I am me Havii: You. Denalee: Yes. This is who God created for a reason. The whole of it. Not just my nose, not just my lips, not just my thinning hair, but it's who I am. And if that's what you're seeing, you missed me. Havii: Ooh. Ooh. Just dropped a bar. For real. No, for real. Tyler: And what's funny, all these things that people are super self-conscious about, nobody actually sees or caress, you know what I mean? They're just looking at this person, do this one thing, and we take it all personal. It's our head playing tricks on us Denalee: Because I believe the enemy is tripping in someone's head saying, Hey, pick on her. Pick on her. Pick on that girl. So you missed the message. Pick on that girl. Havii: So you missed the message. You completely oversight overstep it. And it's just like, oh yeah, you but your nose. Oh, but your hair. Oh, but your eyes all but this all. But you could have actually gained something that may have been perfectly designed. The message may have been just for you. He don't want you to know. He don't want you to hear it. You said something scales. You said something though in terms of if all that you can see is my physical appearance, you missed it. You missed the point. You missed the whole point. That can be taken in so many different facets. Art, life, people. That is so true. If all you can see is this, you looking in the wrong place, brother and sister. I've been homeless. I mean, if you're going through stuff, you don't know what people have gone through in their lives. You also don't know what's in a person. The only person that knows that is God and not a person, but only individual that knows that is God in you. So people go through stuff, man. It is not easy out here. It's not designed to be easy. Denalee: And what you just said was fire. Because the only person that does know you is God Facts. The only person that knows every single part about you is God. Your thoughts, your dreams, your passions, your worst sins, Tyler: Your purpose. I can't even trust myself. Denalee: Yeah. The only person that knows that is God. So why would we take an opinion of one stranger who's seen us in a sliver in a moment of time, and why would we even give that anything but a passing thought that we take captive and hold it against the thoughts and obedience of Jesus Christ? And if it is there, we keep it. And if it's not, we let it go. Let it Havii: Go. Nine times out of 10, it's not going to be Denalee: Sorry, I got a little excited. Havii: No, you're good. No, nine times out of 10, it's not even going to be even realistic. They don't know you. They don't know me. How could they? You don't know me. This is Tyler: This weird internet phenomenon where there's trolls, right? I mean you're really, the people spend their time trolling and making fun of other people as a pastime. It's evil. It's true evil. It's really sad. Ultimately sad too. You got time to do that and B, you're just out of your own volition being negative and trying to harm somebody else's Havii: Life. It's a nasty person. Do Denalee: You think it's somebody who maybe doesn't know their identity? Absolutely. So they're picking on somebody else's identity. Havii: Absolutely. I don't like you because you know who you are. But Denalee: Also maybe they think this is an identity, so they're going to tear it down. They don't understand what identity truly is. Exactly. Tyler: Yeah. And the second you give into it, they think they won. I got Havii: You. Just Tyler: Hook them. You just fuel Havii: Them. I got you. Respond to my comment. Tyler: But when they see you react, Denalee: They know they hurt you and there's a little glee in there. Havii: Don't react. Denalee: No, I don't respond anymore. I don't respond anymore. But I used to respond and I would be like, there was a giddiness almost in the next comment because they're so happy. They got you. Gotcha. Tyler: I know. It's weird. Havii: Gotcha. You can see that in your average too. People, it's weird. It's so strange because it's not just the internet. The internet trolls that you're talking about. You see that in people. People that you run into Denalee: Used to. It was only on the keyboard warriors. People face-to-face. Were at least polite enough to be fake in the old days. Not anymore. If they Havii: Feel like they can get you, oh, I made you respond with that. All right, cool. Watch me do this Tyler: Then. Do you know why they're doing that? They're trying to fit in with their little buddies. Step on you to feel better about themselves. Denalee: So I mean, really, truly, we should be praying about people who are in this because they don't know who they are. So that's why they're picking on, I mean, this is just like the enemy picking on Jesus' identity, trying to get what he wants. This is the enemy whispering in somebody's ear, trying to tell them they're not good enough. But if you tear this person down, that's going to raise you up somehow. Yep. And it's just a lie. They're living in a lie. Havii: It won't. It's going to make you feel worse. Denalee: And I've done it. I'm not going to say I'm not above that because I've done it too. I fought with people politically online and I got a little angry in the past. I don't do that anymore. But I would get angry. Seriously angry. I can't even say why, because then we can't put it up. Tyler: I mean, I just did the same thing. Oh, for sure. Just a little more recently. Every once in a while, an atheist will just capture my attention. And not that I'm trying to, I'm just, honestly, I'm trying to have an open conversation. But they're not, they're just, they're trying to suck virtue off you sometimes. Not all of them. Not generalizing atheists, but they're trying to suck virtue out of you. They're trying to feel better about themselves by explaining to you why Christianity's not real. You're Havii: Wrong. Denalee: It's fascinating to me. Because they wouldn't do it to any other religion. No. Which also makes me stand, that's crazy firm. That Christianity must be the right one. Most persecuted. Tyler: It's Denalee: The most persecuted. Nobody's fighting Buddhist. Nobody's saying the Buddhist name in vain. They're saying our Lord and Savior's name in vain. They're trying to diminish his strength and power Buddha. So it just, yeah. Nobody says his name in vain, right? No, Tyler: Mohamed. Havii: For real. Yeah, for Denalee: Real. And there's Havii: Some, they leave them alone or Tyler: Allah. Nobody says that. Christianity, Denalee: It's interesting that we Havii: Got poke holes in the one that's actually real and Denalee: God said it would happen. So if you know your identity in Christ, if you know who you are, that you're in him, he is in you. If you know those things and you remember them in those times, sometimes we forget, right, because we're humans. And I'm not offended because I am not offended. Was Jesus ever offended? No. Not one time. We reflect him. We are not offended by people who heard us Tyler: Thees were offended. Havii: They were indeed. Denalee: And he knew. They didn't know. He is like they know not what they do after they just forgive them, humiliated him for real. They know not what they do too, for real. To even us humans on earth. So we cannot take them seriously. We just can't. Can't take, Havii: That's a word right. There it is. I just love hearing that I fed my soul. I like that. No, because it is real. It's real. They know not what they do. They don't. They don't. They don't. And you don't know me. And it's okay. Denalee: I honestly think if somebody knew how much they hurt that girl, and they might now because it came out, you couldn't help but see it. If they knew, would they still have done it? I don't think so. I don't think the world's that hateful. I don't think the world's that hateful, Havii: Honestly, Tyler: Hard to say. Havii: I'm about to say. It's tough to know. Tyler: We have our perspective. We have our perspective and the people we surround ourselves, and this is community and where we're at, but different parts of the world. Denalee: Well, here's what happened. Hate, I have to tell you another post that went on social media that I saw the other day. It was if money were not an object and you could just do anything you wanted to do, and funds were unlimited, what would it be? It was amazing to me what everyone put on there. Not one thing was for themselves, Havii: Really. Denalee: Every single person had this big dream of how they could help somebody else or this farm of how they could feed other people. They had all of these. Not one person had this selfish, self-motivated dream. That's so sick. That's awesome. It was hundreds, Havii: But playing oddball here. Do you think that some of them may have said those things in order to be accepted and fit in to a degree? Denalee: Oh, true. I mean, it was Twitter. I don't think they have to. You can say pretty hateful things. True, true. Havii: Very Denalee: True. And some of 'em were elaborate plans. They were thought out. Havii: I'm not saying that. Yeah, it could Denalee: Be. Havii: It could be. Denalee: I'm sucking virtue from the question, right? It could be. It could Havii: Be. But at the same time, I do know there's a lot of people that are just like, yeah, I would do this if I had the money. And then when they get the money, can't even help their own mom out. It is the Denalee: Truth. That is fair. It's the truth. I mean, that's the reality is the love of money can change how we do things, how we do things. If we can respect money, that's a completely different story. Havii: Yes, that's true. That's Denalee: True. I think the love of money keeps us from sharing it. Havii: Oh yeah, for sure. Be like, this is my $20. But the quickest way to actually recoup money is to give. I mean, if you just give and give and give. Yes, and give, give and give some more. God always provides. God will provide your daily bread. Denalee: My goodness. You can't out give God. No. You just can't. Nope. Nope. Havii: Don't even try. Denalee: And it's such a blessing. Try. It feels like there's a joy in giving. Right? Havii: Try, try. Edit it out. Denalee: So back to you guys being artists. So when you collaborate with people, do you make sure you're equally yoked? Havii: Cool. Denalee: That's why I just take out hobby now Havii: For real. Only friends. I don't work with nobody else. I'm not going to lie. Are Denalee: You guys just doing most of your collaborations together? Yeah, Havii: I, that's how we did. There's nobody else. Yeah, we're just best friends, man. For real. There is nobody else. This is your new son, by the way. I know. Hi. Denalee: Hi, Harvey. Havii: Hello. How Denalee: You Trevor? This is your new brother, by Havii: The way. Hi. Oh, hey. How you doing? You've Denalee: Been into adopted into several families and Havii: I love it. I love it. It's great. That's awesome. It's great. I was without one for a minute in my life, I've created a lot of trauma. I'm not perfect by any means. I've gone through stuff, put my parents through stuff, put my siblings through stuff, put a lot of people close to me through stuff that say that they care about me. Love me. Denalee: You didn't have a hold on who you were back then during your trauma time. Havii: Well, you see, the thing was, I thought that I knew who I was and I was so rigid to this is who I am. Y'all can need to get with it to get lost. For real. Denalee: Is it who God created you to be? No. Who created you to be that person? Havii: Oh, the world. Satan. I'm trying to destroy and kill you. What do you mean? Yeah. So it wasn't, wasn't God by any means. I was falling into, there's power and anger. And when someone gets upset, at least with my experience, when I'd get mad, when I'd be going through some stuff, I'd feel like, oh yeah, I'm untouchable. Can't stop me. What you talking about? I don't care. I don't care. I'm willing to take it all the way there. You don't know what I've been through. You don't know what I've had to do. So it's just you fall into that. It's intoxicating to a degree. Our Denalee: Feelings, Havii: Emotions, Denalee: Our feelings are very intoxicating. But are they facts? Facts, Havii: Feelings? No, they're feelings. They're fleeting. Let them go. Tyler: Definitely not identity. Havii: Not at all. Denalee: Not at all. And I think people confuse their feelings with identity. Often. I can feel very righteous in my anger. This just happened this week with my husband. I was really upset with him about something really upset. So upset. It must be true Havii: Ey, Denalee: Because I'm mad. It must be true. He must really have thought that. He must have thought this made up thought. I thought he had. I know this is crazy. I'm a woman. Whoa, I'm a woman. But the next day I realized, okay, that's not even real. You just made that up. Now you have to go apologize. But in that moment, it felt like righteous anger. I'm about Havii: To say I was right. You're wrong. You're talking about Denalee: You're wrong. So the feeling doesn't necessarily produce a truth. And I think we can't let our feelings guide us. We can let 'em be indicators of something's wrong. So I was angry. And what I realized later as I was jealous, Havii: Ooh, there's a causation always Denalee: Is I was jealous of the attention he was giving somebody that wasn't me. Havii: Shoot. Hey. Denalee: And I had to apologize. I had him convinced he was wrong in the situation. At least Havii: You did though, Denalee: Right? Yes. But it's still embarrassing. Like, oh, Havii: But at least you did. You disciplined that flesh and went over there and said I was wrong. I might've taken that out of proportion a little bit. Takes a Denalee: Lot. So he's so gracious. He is beautiful about it. But it is an interesting thing on how we can let our feelings guide us into error. It's Tyler: So weird how the world has created this ideology of your emotion is your identity, how you feel is your identity. And it is created a lot of weird byproducts. Havii: It really has Tyler: Really weird, Havii: Strange and Tyler: Victimhood really. Denalee: I hate to take this back to feminism, but a lot of it is based on these, take it back feelings. These feelings We have the feelings we want for power, the feelings we want to be right, the feelings we want that it should be this way. And it created a culture over the years that I've really had to rethink because I was one of those women. And okay, there's some truth in it, right? Women should get paid the same amount of men. If they're doing the same job facts, they should. That should have always been. But that wasn't really the guiding force of the movement. Nope. But that was the candy that lured us in. And then the other stuff started to sound good. Well, you should have more power. Well mention. Have any power. Well, that sounds kind of good too, because they've been kind of brats for a while. And that's a lie. We don't push other people down to lift ourselves up. Ey. That's narcissism. Havii: Yes, ma'am. About to say, men don't need to do this. I'm about to say, man, you don't need a man. You can do it yourself. I, and I don't want to get canceled before I even get, before I even get going. It Denalee: Just comes down to respect and love. But Havii: For real, it's like, look, I know I can speak for myself again. I love women. I was raised by women. I was brought up by women. It's just in this generation, it's like, I don't understand. You want me to feel like less than what I am. I'm a king. At the end of the day, I know what I am. I know what I'm going to be. I know the kingship that I'm in. I know the king that I'm raising. I know what I am, and I'm not going to accept less than what I am. And nobody on this planet is going to be able to tell me, you're not this. You're not that. But we're in a generation and we're in a time where women are like, no, you're really not all that. Denalee: You're Havii: Not supposed to Denalee: Be all that. We raised that and created that. And I apologize. So I'm trying to undo that. It's okay where I can and speak truth through this medium because I truly feel like it is a big problem. It is. I don't want my kids being treated less than. Tyler: No. All girls like this. Start doing that. There's lot of amazing women that really, really understand this dynamic. You have a completely, but there's a really big loud voice on social media and media in general about how men are bad and can't do anything right. And how you don't need them. Havii: I'm good. I'm one of the good ones. Denalee: You guys are good. Havii: I'm not bad. Denalee: You're good Havii: Guys. I've been do some bad stuff. Denalee: We all have. Havii: But you know what I'm saying. Denalee: We've all been bad. Havii: Don't judge me with everybody else. Don't just group and generalize, man. That's not, come on, man. Not one of us or women either. I know that it's not all women that are like this and doing these things. And I want to make that clear too. I'm not just over here. This ain't no women bashing session again. I love women. Me too. But it's just what y'all getting fed. It's a culture. Dark pillars. Stop feeding them this stuff. Yes, Denalee: Please. In the name of Jesus, you ruining Havii: It for a lot of Denalee: People. Happiness for real. True joy. I think when I quit trying to be the powerful, the one who made more money, there was something I had to prove to my husband like, I am worthy and I'm going to show you and I'm going to show you I run this house. No, no. But when I stopped and all I ever wanted was for him to love me, and we had this contentious relationship, our entire marriage, I don't know for the grace of God that we stayed together, but I did pray for our marriage to get better. I just didn't realize it was me that was going to have to get better. I thought it was him. Havii: Hey, you dropping some ball. I'm not even going to lie to you, Denalee: But it was me dropping, having to change to truth. So there are some truths in every ideology. The problem is they get taken too far. And when I let my man be a man, and he was always willing to let me be me, I just didn't know it. That's where the love came in and it was beautiful. And we became a team. Tyler: There was an oppressive ideology. Havii: Amen. That you Tyler: Were inflicting upon yourself, that you thought he was inflict upon his name. Denalee: That's the thing is you think feminism is power. The whole ideology I get there's some good ideas in it, right? But the whole ideology, if you look at where it started and what their true belief systems are, and what you can also see it coming out in culture is oppressive, is oppressing your joy. It is oppressing love. It's creating hate and discontent and mental health issues Havii: For real, shorty. And physical health issues be losing it sometimes. Physical health issues for Denalee: Sure. I mean people when they don't have God and you don't have anyone to rely on for comfort, who do we go to? We go to drugs, alcohol, food. The world. Havii: Lust for real. Yeah. Stop doing that. Stop doing that. Denalee: I'm going to ruin your Havii: Life. I'm about to say, not worry. Nevermind. I'm not about to open that can of worms. I want to, but I'm not. Tyler: You can. It's for another day. You can Havii: Just joking. You know who I'm talking to. Denalee: So who are you guys today? Who are you? Tell me who you are. Havii: I'm a king. Yeah. Yeah. I exude greatness. I'm a king because I came from the king of kings, so that just was written on my forehead from birth. He's a king too. You're a queen. You came from the one. So that's what that is. Now you got a lot of people out here that don't understand that, that don't see that in themselves. I would challenge you to wipe the scales off your eyes. Open 'em things up, because don't settle. You deserve more. In all facets. Don't ever settle. You deserve more. And don't ever let anybody tell you that you're less than because you're not. Amen. But that's who I am. I'm a king. He's a king. Who are you? We're your crown. Tyler: I'm obviously a child of Christ. Yes, sir. I'm a seeker of righteousness. Havii: Yes, sir. Tyler: I'm not a pursuer of happiness. Ooh. Havii: Dropping them bars. Yes, sir. Tyler: I am one that glorifies and brings glory to God. Ooh. It shows off how great he is. Love that. I am a lover of God. I am God's son. Amen. Denalee: How did you find that out? Tyler: Ooh, seeking it. Seeking it, actually. Okay. Like you were saying, wiping the scales off your eyes. Yes, sir. I feel like a lot of people have this shaky foundation, a surface level hatred or apathy or non-interest into Christianity. And because they see it as a religion, they see the rules and they don't understand how the Bible works. Denalee: Or they say people who aren't even exuding what we're supposed to, which is love. Tyler: Yeah. So they're allowing other people to misrepresent it. And I think that they're not seeking the truth for themselves. And if you are willing to let Jesus just, if he's real, in your opinion, if he's real, come into your life just to see if he is real, you might be surprised. You might be surprised that he actually is. That is what changed all of our lives in this room. Denalee: Amen. And how did that process look to you? What exactly did you do? Tyler: Well, I stopped being a victim and placed my identity in victimhood, and I started pursuing knowledge and it, it's closer to God. And how Denalee: Did you do that? Tyler: Books? Reading Word. Denalee: You're in his word, Tyler: Reading his. Yeah. Denalee: To find out who he was. Tyler: Reading his word and his word pops up in different sources. Facts. That's interesting. Yeah. Then I decided to seek truth for myself because something needed to change. Something needed Denalee: To change. Spend some time in prayer. Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. I think that came later. I mean, most people I think approach things with intellectuality. Right. Denalee: I don't know. I think I probably started with prayer before I started with the Bible. Yeah. Tyler: I would pray, but it was very like, help me. Okay. I'm good. Denalee: Okay. So not Tyler: All messed up. Help me. Help me. Denalee: Save me. I mean, I think that's where we all start. Isn't that where everyone's, A lot of people probably start there if you don't know God. I think the thing that people will do, even atheists who don't believe continent situation. Okay, God, if you're real, help me out. Could you help? I'll reach that hand. Yeah. And I think he doesn't mind that you start there, but he expects you to grow. Yeah. Tyler: We, yeah. Facts. Yeah. And actually pursue truth. Understand maybe the credibility of something that you are shaming without knowing real knowledge about and giving something a shot. You might say you're the really open-minded person, but are you open-minded about faith? You got to be real with yourself. Are you open-minded about the real resurrection of Jesus Christ? Yeah. Denalee: I think it's been a journey for me the last 10 years to find out who I really am. I did grow up in a somewhat dysfunctional family, and so did my parents. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't their fault that they couldn't bring something to the table that I needed. They didn't have it either. Thank you, God, that my mom and I are on this journey together, because not everybody gets that. Not everyone gets that kind of healing. But in the last 10 years, I've really been seeking truth. When you have a kid that maybe wasn't doing so well, or your marriage isn't great, there's indicators that life's not going right for you and you're unhappy and depressed. And it made me seek him because at some point I'm like, okay, God, I don't know what to do. I always believed I just didn't have a relationship with him. I had more of religion and this forced relationship because I didn't have anyone to go to. My friends were sick of hearing about my problems. They're like, they just like, I don't, let's have fun. I'm here to do things. I'm not here to be your counselor. And besides, I keep telling you the same thing over and over and you don't listen. So Tyler: Spot on Denalee: Life years ago. So I had to tell God, and he got to listen. And he shared truth through prayer, through time with him. And then I opened up the books. I opened up the Bible more and went back to that part of the relationship. And then I went into some wild obedience for a while, which I need to be back there again. I'm honestly not quite there. That's where you're at. But it's, it flowed. Yeah. That's where miracle, miracle, miracle life, the direction. And I think what I thought before was if I walk in obedience, my life's not going to be fun. And what he did was he filled it with more than fun. Right. The fleeting fun that I was chasing through alcohol or humans that could only feed me for five minutes. Anyway, that fun. That only lasts for five minutes, that you continue to chase that high that you can't get. But Jesus never lets you down Tyler: There is real. He just Denalee: Never lets you down. Tyler: What is it people say? A lot of Christians say, my life is so much easier. It's like, it's not supposed to be easier. It's supposed to be better. It's supposed to be more fulfilling. It Denalee: Is better. It is. Tyler: I feel like Denalee: Maybe they just don't have the words for it. Tyler: Yeah. It's like Denalee: There is a hard word for it. It's not this, the things that I thought were fun, weren't fun. No. Nope. My heart has changed. He's transformed my heart. He's made me a better mom. A better, I hope a better mom. Don't you think? Yeah. A hundred percent. A better wife, a better friend, a better business person. And he's showing me through my obedience and putting my toe in the water. You're talking about your little guy who I am in him. Who did you create me to be? I get to see it in the daily interactions. I get to see it when I put my toe in the water and try something hard, richer. Yes. It's deeper. It is richer and deeper, more meaning. And I get to see who when I reflect him and I see when I don't Havii: Ey. Denalee: And he's like, no, that's not me. And that is not you. That person you just were, was not you. Tyler: And you get to see that. And you what school get to course correct faster than most people, because not everybody has the helper telling them in their head when Denalee: Everyone has him available. Havii: Yeah, he's there. Denalee: But we don't even still sometimes when I want to do something I don't know if he wants me to do, and this is when I don't know if he's going to say yes, I won't pray about it, which means he's probably not going to say yes. Right. I'm not going to pray about it. I'm just going to do it. But we get to learn that too. And guess what? He still loves me. I found myself. I'm still a childhood God. I'm still loved by the king. I'm still the princess of the most high. Im still adored, cherished, loved. I'm still never forsaken. Yes, ma'am. I am still that woman. Even when I mess up. Havii: Even when you mess up. That's a fact. Oh, we're dropping bars today. Denalee: Bars. Havii: He's so good. Dropping bars today. Tyler: And yeah, the relationship part, I approach it with being intellectual and kind, understanding the word a little bit more and how it works. You're smarter than me. Legalism and the legal system and what it means. But when the Holy Spirit really does touch your life, it's not a joke. It's not a, oh, I'm just kind of like guessing. It's the Holy Spirit, and I'm just going to label that because I'm a Christian and you should do it too. No, it is a experience. Havii: It's real. Tyler: It's real. Denalee: So my dad didn't believe in God, and he would ask me how I knew he was real. I've experienced him. It is hard to put into words because he's changed my heart. And I tried to change my heart. I tried the world's way. Can't do it. I couldn't change it. I read lots of books. Can't do it. I changed lots of books, but my heart didn't actually change until I let him in it, until I let him guide it. Tyler: Guy's a gentleman, he's not going to force himself. Havii: Find down, bring me in. Denalee: That was a word there for maybe me to be more reflecting of him in that way. Havii: I'm going to kick the door down on you. Yeah. That's the enemy. Going to slide through the window and talk about something. Yeah. Denalee: That sounds like the accuser and abuser. Tyler: Yeah. We were made to be his lover. Exactly. Havii: Yeah. Denalee: That's awesome. Havii: About to say. Denalee: Oh, any last words about identity? Havii: Oh yeah. Be yourself. Be authentically you. And if you don't know who you are, seek it in Christ. He has a divine purpose and plan for each one of you, and he'll tell you who you need to be. Just follow the course and stay the path. Denalee: Yes. And pay attention to those natural gifts, talents, and abilities that he's given you. Because those are sometimes the path when we create and a whole identity around the identifier. Like let's say you're an amazing businessman or a supermom, Tyler: A Denalee: Really good artist, what happens? Oh yeah. What if you're a brilliant artist and you lose it? Then that's where depression, anxiety, and those things sound on because you built your life on that cornerstone and not the cornerstone. Oh man. Because I am not a podcaster. I'm a woman of God who just happens to be doing a podcast, Havii: Been gifted to do a podcast. Denalee: I am not a writer. I am a child of God who he, lets write, oh Havii: Lord Mercy. Denalee: I write to him. I think we need to rethink and reframe how we look at ourselves. Because when that identity was wrapped up in our businesses and we lost everything, it was a catastrophic mess. But what if the cornerstone would've been on God, oh, I'm a businessman. Or a woman who was affected by the economy. Where are we going next? God, what's next? Tyler: As an audio engineer, if I lose my ears? Havii: We talked about this. Tyler: That's a big Havii: Fear of mine. We talked about this. Don't Denalee: Let Tyler: It be. But I mean, it can't be. What do we say if that's my identity? If that's something I'm putting my comfort in, I'm worshiping and idolizing it. Denalee: Well, dad and I were talking about Whitney Houston the other day because she's my thing. I talk about her a lot. I loved her. When she would sing, I could feel it through my body all the way through my soul. And the trajectory of her life was incredibly sad for me as a fan, but tumultuous even more so. I'm sure for her family, obviously. But I was watching her documentary. I've watched all of 'em. And she wanted to sing gospel. That's what she wanted to sing. And that's where I loved her. Right. And I loved her other music. I didn't feel it all the way to my toes. I didn't. But she wanted to sing that. And her family and her manager and everyone pushed her towards the world. The world. And she kind of went in it kicking and screaming. And then you can just see this rise and this fall of who she was because she wasn't being who she was created to be. And she started to lose her voice. She started to lose these things about her that made her uniquely her as she became more and part of the world. And it was incredibly sad for me. I really loved her. And I still do. God bless you. I know she believes. I know she's in heaven and I'll get to meet her someday. Havii: Yes, ma'am. A question and a statement, who do you do it for? That's one. You got to remember who you do it for. And then two, you got to stick with who brought you to the dance regardless of what the world's going to say to you, regardless of what your people that's in your corner, outside of your corner are going to say to you, stick with who brought you there. That's Tyler: Exactly right. Denalee: That's your creator. Havii: It's it's your gift. And if you're not glorifying him with the gift that he gave you, athleticism, a beautiful voice. Those ears, creativity, the ability to write. If you're not glorifying him with what he gave you, you're glorifying somebody. And who is it? Denalee: And I have to tell you, whenever I do glorify myself, it's kind of dirty and ugly. I never feel good about it. When I do something in God's name for God, it's beautiful. Beautiful. Even if it's just for me. Even if it's just for him and me. Tyler: You know what? That's fulfillment. That's the beautiful that's above making. Denalee: That's way better than a million likes millions on social Tyler: Media. Havii: Way better. I was about to say it. I was about to say, there's no amount of money that can amount to that. God Tyler: Pours oil on obedience, on Havii: Obedience. He said, I got the mil over here. The wealth is right here for you. It is just who you're doing it for. A I got to be truthful with myself introspective as I am. Oh yeah. Introspective as I am. It's not going to be blessed until you're doing it for the right reasons. There was a long time there where I was doing it for the wrong stuff, had the wrong things at the forefront, and it was not working. It has just now begun to work. Doors are opening that. I'm like, I didn't even know that that was a thing. I didn't know that was an option for real. So Denalee: This is confusing to people because you can kick doors down and force your way through and get through it, but it's miserable. Oh gosh. And it is a door kicking session. It's painful. A door kicking. Painful. Painful. Yes. Door kicking session and your feet are broken Tyler: Stuff Havii: Sliding in on the wheelchair like, Hey, what's happening? I can't move Denalee: Using my shoulders now, but if God's not in it, and I'm not saying it's always easy. We have ups and downs with everything we're doing right now, but I know God's guiding it. And it's a boat. It's not a mountain. It's anointed Tyler: By Havii: Him. Denalee: Yes. We're on waves. We're not on cliffs. Havii: About to say, I'm about to jump off this thing. Break both my legs. Oh no. And Tyler: It's moving upward, right? Yeah. That's a good telltale side. Denalee: Yes. Yes. Me growing is painful sometimes, right? Havii: Yep. Tyler: Growing pains. Havii: Growing pains. Yes. It's not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. It's not easy. Tyler: I'd like to thank everybody for enjoying this podcast. For participating. We hope we brought you some value. If we did, can you please hit like and subscribe. I want to appreciate both of you guys. Mom, I love you so much. You have turned into an incredible human being, and it was amazing to see your growth. And Javi the same goes for you. I love you so much. I love both of you so much. That is my family. That is Twin right there. Swag. Swag Havii: In the bag. Swag for sure. Swag. Tyler: Yeah, exactly. All of us: Love you guys. Love you guys. Love you. See you.