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Denalee Bell: Hey everybody. Welcome to SoapyBox. I'm Denalee Bell. Today we have our co-content creators, Tyler Bell, Nicole Hreniuc, joining us to talk about a matter near and dear to all of our hearts, how to keep more of our money in our pockets, and with the rise of tipping culture, that might be more difficult. And because of the crazy inflation, we have to talk about things like splitting meals. How do we do that appropriately and, the protocol and etiquette behind that? But I think we're going to start with tipping culture because it's a hot item right now on the airwaves we've had, I've seen some tiktoks and reds go viral of some servers who aren't really happy about their tips, and they are getting quite a bit of backlash. And I think the reason why they're getting the backlash is there's a lot of people my age who we were servers when we were in our twenties, and the typical gratuity was 15%. If you went above and beyond, of course you could do better, and you had a little bit of control over how much money you make because you could bust your butt and really go for it. And I think you can still do that now. And I don't really see this entitlement that I saw in these videos in the restaurants that we go to. I think our wait staff's pretty cool. We start to know them by name. We like them. We want to take care of them. They do go above and beyond. I do have a problem with the entitlement of it. It's an expectation and not a gift because I too made only a dollar 90 an hour, I think in my day. This was 30 years ago. And I get that society has changed since then. It was the 15%. And we tipped waiters, waitresses, servers, we tipped hairdressers, pet groomers, sky cab. We tipped housekeeping at hotels. We would tip the chef too if the meal was extraordinary, which I don't see a lot of that happen anymore. Yeah, I've never heard of that. Yeah, me neither. That I hear compliments to the chef. Oh yeah, not tips. Interesting. The tipping culture has really changed. I've noticed maybe Covid had something to do with it because I noticed that we were tipping more and differently because people were out during the pandemic doing jobs that we couldn't do. We were either shut down or I just truly didn't want to leave my house. So I did over tip because I thought, well, you guys aren't there braving the world, we'll give you some extra money. And I think that was okay, but I think it started to carry over. And I don't know if it was covid that started this, but I see everybody wants in on the action now. We've got the Chipotle person ringing up your order wants a tip for your burrito, and we want a tip at the barista at Starbucks that's now they're tipping at Starbucks now. And then we also have the really fun one. This is actually the one that irritates me is on Amazon. Your order fulfiller now would like a tip. Okay, so apparently Jeff Bezos and his fourth super yacht can't pay you, but you want me to pay you. Tyler Bell: That's interesting, huh? Yeah, Denalee Bell: I find that one irritating. So I want to start with who do you think we should tip or who do you guys tip already? Tyler Bell: I mean, I usually tip when the offer is asked, I guess sometimes just because of a subconscious thing, you go to the counter orders and then you go take your food and go seat yourself and they bring the food out to you or they just deliver it to you right there. They prepare it in front of you and it's usually 15, 20, 20 5% or 10 to 20% or whatever it is. And I'll usually do the low tips for those because it's like whatever. Nicole Hreniuc: Yeah, you feel bad not to, Denalee Bell: Or you feel obligated to right there and you have no choice. Tyler Bell: When it's an order and it's like a dollar 50, I'm like, eh, whatever. It is not a big deal to me. But afterwards I'm kind of like, I mean, Denalee Bell: You did all the work. Tyler Bell: Yeah, I didn't do this at McDonald's. There's a whole list of things I feel like you should though because of etiquette. I don't know my barber, I would do that. A tattoo artist, I would do that. Denalee Bell: Oh, a tattoo artist tipped. Tyler Bell: I think of Uber. I would tip an Uber. Denalee Bell: Yeah, I tip my Uber. It's not that I don't tip them, it's that there's so many people that require a tip now, so it's hard to probably budget. And I would think even for younger people it would be even more difficult to budget. Nicole Hreniuc: It's hard to navigate what's appropriate, what's not. Especially when you go to places like big coffee chains where they look at you and they're like, would you like to tip right now? You don't have to, but you can. And you're like, yeah, well Denalee Bell: I guess I will. You just Nicole Hreniuc: Did ask me. So yes. So I had a funny story. I went to Dutch Bros and I picked up drinks for me and Tyler and she got my order wrong. So I told her that she got it wrong and she had to fix it. And at the end she was really upset with me that she had to fix it. And then she asked me, she's like, do you want to tip me? You don't have to. And I was like, no, it's okay. And it was really awkward and really bad. She was like, oh, okay. And so at that point I left and I felt bad. I was like, is there an obligation to tip? Are they not paying them right Tyler Bell: Or were you filling the manipulation? It was Nicole Hreniuc: A little bit of manipulation. Denalee Bell: So she treated you poorly and then wanted a tip Tyler Bell: And it made you feel bad. She Nicole Hreniuc: Made me feel really bad. Denalee Bell: And in the olden days, if we wanted a tip, we made their experience good. Yeah, Nicole Hreniuc: That makes sense. I'm not the type to not tip either. I'm usually always pretty generous, even if it's a dollar for a coffee or something. But that was one of those moments, it was so weird and kind of rude and awkward that I just didn't want to, Tyler Bell: You made my experience not that great. So I don't really feel like I want to contribute to your tip right now for $2 and you're going to make me feel weird and gross about myself for not doing it. That's weird. That's weird. Denalee Bell: It's weird. And it's like, this is what I don't like about it. It's now an obligation. And I do understand that waiters and waitresses for the most part make less in many states, much less than minimum wage. And so the idea would be is that the customer fill that gap. So I don't really understand this thinking that the customer should have to fill the gap. I don't understand why we're not making the employer pay it. I agree. And I think that you guys just went to a place in la, what was it Nicole Hreniuc: Called, John? And Yeah, that's where this whole conversation started. I feel like we went and got pizza and it's already kind of a high end pizza joint in la. It's really hard to get into. You usually have to make reservations weeks in advance. Tyler Bell: They got this sardine pizza, Nicole Hreniuc: It's really Denalee Bell: Good, but don't like stars go there. Yeah. Nicole Hreniuc: That's how I found out about it. Kim Kardashian posted it with Pete Davidson. And so I told Tyler I really wanted to go on one of our trips and it ended up being our favorite restaurant. It's really, really good. But one thing that I noticed the last time we went for my birthday last month was they have a whole service charge on the bottom. And it's one thing if it's an included gratuity, I'm okay with that most of the time. So on the receipt, there's an 18% service charge and it has a whole paragraphs kind of stating this is not a tip. And it goes to everybody in the restaurant and towards their establishment and different things that you really don't know where that money's going towards. So you already spent 18% on that charge and they're expecting you to pay another 20% on your server. So it was at a point where it's like our check was so high that I was like, I can't really afford to tip the server more than a dollar or two. Tyler Bell: It's so strange, especially when it's such a vague thing that you're already giving 20% of your bill too. Denalee Bell: And did you know about it beforehand or Nicole Hreniuc: Did Denalee Bell: You get surprised at the end? Nicole Hreniuc: I was surprised with it. And so at first I totally thought that it was just an included gratuity until I read into it and I was like, oh no, I don't even know where this money goes. Denalee Bell: I dunno. I guess if I saw that, then I would think, oh, this is another gratuity so I don't have to tip more. Nicole Hreniuc: Exactly. Denalee Bell: And I think that is what's happening to that restaurant. We went on to Daily Mail to kind of look at it. It was such a crazy story. And there is a class action suit filed by the servers who aren't really making tips now because of this added fee, which the idea, I believe, was to make sure everyone made at least a minimum wage of $16 and some cents, whatever it was. And Tyler Bell: I don't think we should feel bad that we didn't do an additional 20% tip. I feel like that's more between the employee and the employer at that point. Right. Nicole Hreniuc: Well also it's kind of like you want to just trust that they're paying their workers a good wage if they're taking that money from you. Denalee Bell: If they're making 20 some dollars an hour, I guess maybe they're not expecting a tip because this is how they're getting paid now. Nicole Hreniuc: But for la, a restaurant in LA, they're probably already making about $15 an hour at any restaurant just based on no tips. So it's like they're getting pay cuts compared to everybody else in the industry. Denalee Bell: So this is what I don't understand, and I didn't read this whole part of it, but I'm like, so if you want to pay your servers at a high-end restaurant where you already have stars coming in, you already have, I mean, they have a wine sommelier there. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's not like your regular Domino's Pizza. Nicole Hreniuc: No, it's a really nice restaurant. Tyler Bell: It's like craft quality deal. Denalee Bell: Exactly. So you're serving a high-end food. Let's say your pizza is $20, why wouldn't you just charge 24 and pay your staff appropriately? I don't understand it. And when I was researching this topic on Reddit, it was kind of interesting how foreigners look at USA tipping because they don't have the tip culture that we do. They just assume you should do your job getting paid for it and don't understand why we would pay them additional for it. And the argument that restaurant that people won't pay the extra for food is lost because of New Zealand how they do it. They don't do the tipping thing, but their food costs the same as ours. So where's all the money going? Tyler Bell: It's interesting. Me and Nicole went to Europe though, and on the other hand of that, we got to experience where they didn't focus on building their tips, but they didn't really focus on the customer service or the quality of service that you got because they're already getting paid a fair amount. And I don't know, it felt like a little snobby feeling sometimes when we went to a decent Nicole Hreniuc: Place. And it's weird because it's not everywhere in Europe, but there's a lot of places, especially in Italy, if you tip them, they kind of take it as if you're looking at them like the help. Denalee Bell: That's where tipping started from. It was like this aristocracy, it was a futile system in Europe where it, where you're looked down upon where I'm throwing money to the peasants, I'm above you. And when they brought that over to the US, it was not for the same reasons obviously. I think they really started the tipping in the US to avoid paying black people wages because it was the end of slavery. And so instead of paying them said, okay, you can be a porter or you can do this job, but it's just tips for you. Tyler Bell: Yeah. It's so strange. It Denalee Bell: Is. Nicole Hreniuc: It's crazy. That carried on into our culture. Tyler Bell: Yeah. It's weird how it's adapted and turned into a, Nicole Hreniuc: But I think it's also because restaurants are getting big because there's eager workers that are addicted to the fast money. And that's why it's continued with that trend. Denalee Bell: And what I find I guess interesting about it was the little bit of history I was reading about. It was many people didn't want the tipping culture here. They just wanted people to pay their employees. And when you told me how much the assistant manager was making at that restaurant, how much, I don't Nicole Hreniuc: Know if it's accurate or not, but I found it on a salary website. Like those job websites said $188,000 Denalee Bell: For the assistant manager. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Nicole Hreniuc: It could be wrong, but even if it is or isn't, that's crazy. Denalee Bell: I mean, Tyler Bell: Geez, Denalee Bell: That's a big job. Right? But wow. Nicole Hreniuc: Not big enough, Denalee Bell: But I don't know why. Tyler Bell: Pretty well compensated, huh? Denalee Bell: Yes. Tyler Bell: Weird. Denalee Bell: I guess that we know why they need the extra 20% for you to cover. Nicole Hreniuc: I know you're getting paid double or triple than even medical specialists or anybody. It's crazy. Denalee Bell: It's crazy. That is. So it's kind of interesting. You guys are younger, right? And you're going to have this experience and you're ready to pay for it and you're ready to tip, but you weren't expecting the extra 20%. Yeah, Nicole Hreniuc: It made me feel really bad. I didn't like that whole, there's a Tyler Bell: Bit of greedy businessmen out there owning companies, and I feel like they've been taught that you can't be fair to get where you're at in life. You have Denalee Bell: To. I think that is a culture as well. We need to step on others to raise ourselves up or I don't know why we can't all share in the wealth because a lot of those employee owned businesses do really well because the employees are invested in the success of the company. We have a local company, WinCo, it's a grocery store, but it's employee owned and people are truly invested in the success of that. That's pretty cool. It is. I didn't know it come up with amazing retirements. Really? Truly. Wow, that's Nicole Hreniuc: Really cool. Denalee Bell: And you don't have to be a CEO to come out with a huge retirement. And so I think it's really kind of cool Tyler Bell: That they're, they're like restaurant business models are really interesting. Denalee Bell: They are the most likely to go out of business. So I get the risk part of it. But at some point we have restaurants that we frequent that are obviously doing well. But I will say the staff does go above and beyond. We live in an area where, Tyler Bell: Yeah, Denalee Bell: Yeah, that's just a thing. But Tyler Bell: Yeah, Idaho's pretty cool, man. Denalee Bell: We do. I mean it's a different culture here. And so the videos that I'm seeing was like a girl in New York and she served somebody five beers and it was 50 bucks and she wanted 20% for that. And everyone gave her some backlash that you turned around and grabbed five beers out of cooler and now you're mad that didn't get $20 and you got $10. Which brings me to the next question. You're going to Chili's or Johnny and John and Vinny's, John and Vinny's Chili or Johnny and Vinny's, you're both two, you are ordering. Why should the tip be so much more there than here? Yeah. Tyler Bell: Yeah, that is interesting. You're getting the same amount of food. It's just a little bit more expensive. Denalee Bell: And at Chili's, they may be refilling your drink more because you're drinking soda to get some salty food down. Tyler Bell: I know it's weird because specifically with John and Vinny's, they have an onboard sommelier that comes and brings you a really nice bottle of wine. And it's not just about the food or the service. You're also paying for about the experience, a big fat tip for a big nice bottle of wine that they're pushing on you pretty much. So Denalee Bell: You're going to pay on a tip on that as well. Yep, exactly. And you're going to pay probably an extravagant price on that as well. Tyler Bell: Exactly. 40% tip on a bottle of wine, right? Yeah. Denalee Bell: That would make me not want the bottle of wine. But Tyler Bell: You're one at John. Denalee Bell: What do you guys think? How should tipping be? Should it be a flat rate or? I think it's unfair to tip somebody not based on merit, just based on an entitlement. Tyler Bell: I feel like there's kind of a, I dunno, I thought this in my head, but maybe they make below minimum wage in hope that tips would compensate if they don't make a certain amount that would be compensated to them from the owners or from the employers. That's Denalee Bell: The rule. So if they don't make enough tips, the owner is supposed to come up with a shortfall, Tyler Bell: But I Denalee Bell: Dunno Tyler Bell: If that happens. It's up to minimum wage. I don't know if that's fair because I think starving is hard work. I Denalee Bell: Dunno. It is hard work. So I've done it. We've all worked in this industry. I don't remember a time I ever made minimum wage less than minimum. I always made more than minimum wage at a restaurant because you don't just have one table, you have multiple tables. But I know, I think when you started working in the industry years ago, they do it different. You only get so many tables. We got a section and you could have 10, 15 tables, 20 a night. That's pretty crazy. And I would have my buser who I'd bring, we were like a team. It was like a business. So you're my buser. We are a team, we're on schedule together because we work good together. You're going to make me more money. So we split our tips 50 50. Yeah. Tyler Bell: It's kind of like barber, you go in and you pay for house for a chair. You know what I mean? Yeah. Denalee Bell: And that was different too when I was growing up. If the hairstylist or the barber owned the establishment, you did not tip them. Tyler Bell: Oh, weird. Denalee Bell: Yeah, you do know. You do know. Yeah. Or medical spa services, you still, you don't tip the owner, but you tip the, this is the protocol I've understood. I could be wrong, you tip for facials and those kinds of things, but for lasers or more medical procedures, you don't tip on those. Oh, Nicole Hreniuc: That's Denalee Bell: Interesting. Yeah. Nicole Hreniuc: At your restaurant, Tyler, did you pull tips or was it more Tyler Bell: No, no. It wasn't a pool tip situation. It was just pretty regular. I don't know. But the busers were, it was a pretty strong job. You were asked a lot. You're also kind of like a barback and Denalee Bell: Did they split tips Tyler Bell: With you? Yeah, so it was kind of interesting. A lot of the servers and bartenders used to get upset that the busers were getting tipped out as much as they were. What? Nicole Hreniuc: Oh, Denalee Bell: That's odd. I always felt like the buser made me make enough that money. But we were a team. It was truly like we thought for each other, Hey Billy, if you're out there. Tyler Bell: Yeah, well that matters because you guys are coming together and you guys are sharing money together and operating on a system. I feel like most days it's a little bit less organized than that and you have a little bit less freedom in the restaurant environment to do that because I don't know, bosses want to be managing the sections appropriately and stuff. And it isn't like, yeah, Denalee Bell: We were a little less managed than I can see. I can see it in a restaurant where it seems like people only get four tables at a time. Nicole Hreniuc: That's how it is at my restaurant that I work at. Is it? It's about three or four tables. Oh wow. You usually get cut once you hit about 10 parties. So they try to keep everybody equal. But it's hard sometimes Tyler Bell: It is. The restaurant I used to work at was around seven to 10 tables. Wow. They've made Denalee Bell: Good money for the night. Tyler Bell: Yeah. Denalee Bell: Oh. So we could do as many as we could handle. Tyler Bell: Oh wow. Denalee Bell: And then you just go back and forth between the servers. But if the restaurant was slammed, if it was full, then it's, it's probably all equal. Yeah. Tyler Bell: It's interesting though, the pull tips situation in a lot of these newer restaurants. I don't like that. I don't really care. I wouldn't, wouldn't know how I feel about that either. Nicole Hreniuc: I think John Benny does that too. Tyler Bell: Oh they do? Yeah. It makes sense. Denalee Bell: Well it sounded like some of their tips, does it go to the dishwasher and everybody? Nicole Hreniuc: I believe so. I don't know how it works though. I Denalee Bell: Think one of the things that it said on the story was that even the dishwashers and all of the people made more money than usual, which I did. That's cool. But raise your food price. You're a specialty unique place. You can do it. But there was some fear in them raising their price. Nicole Hreniuc: So they put a whole description on their website and that was actually a result of the class action lawsuit is they didn't even have it before. They just had, we have a service charge. Sorry. Denalee Bell: Do you guys think that people should just raise their rates Tyler Bell: Just so you know what you're getting and you don't have to feel like it Nicole Hreniuc: Jack, because at that point, like I said before, you're still paying for the experience. It's still kind of like a casual fine dining restaurant. It's nice. It's a fun place to go. So you'll pay more. Tyler Bell: And you know what? It's always full when we're there. Nicole Hreniuc: Always. Well, I mean when I make reservations, I make them two or three weeks in advance every time. Denalee Bell: Where do you guys feel, how do you feel about when you are obligated to tip? So everywhere you go now there's a sign at the front and we kind of touched upon it a minute ago. I feel obligated. So I do it, but I don't want to. Do you guys do the same thing Tyler Bell: Or it depends For me, it depends how you're talking to me. You know what I mean? Yes. And I dunno, I do feel like if you're serving, the minimum for me is 20%. And even if it isn't the greatest experience, but when it comes to I walk up to a counter, I order my meal and they give it to me right there, I'll do the minimum option that they have usually like two, $3, whatever. I don't mind helping 'em out. This is what they signed up for, hoping that they get tips. But I don't know how I feel about when you maybe don't have good customer service and aren't provided an experience for me, I don't really care Nicole Hreniuc: To, or let's say you walk up to a counter and you just buy a water bottle or something and you have the tip to option and they're just kind of like, you want a tip, you want, isn't that it? Denalee Bell: Why don't? But I feel forced now. Tyler Bell: But it's like Denalee Bell: Sales. It feels like you're almost bullied into it. Tyler Bell: Well, it's like upselling, you know what I mean? It's like when I used to fix phones, you know what I mean? Used, it was a bartering system. I started high and they keep kind of bring you low a little bit and people would get $60 screen, some people would get 80 and it was the same deal and you just keep pushing for the highest thing you can do. Oh, here, get temper glass. You need it and if you don't get it, you might break your phone again. I dunno. Denalee Bell: So you guys are obviously younger than me or 26 years when I had you. Yeah. How do you think tipping has changed? Do you think there's anything weird or wrong going on? Tyler Bell: I think that a lot of people are starting to ask for more tips and I think this urge to pressure, but for the most part, if I don't have to do anything, I don't have to tip you at the end of the day, but what is actual etiquette? What is fair? And when there's this new system for a Chipotle burrito where I have to tip it, they make it right in front of you. I don't really feel like I'm inclined or it would be a big deal for me to have to do that. Denalee Bell: I do think 20% is the new standard for servers. And so if I am mad and get bad service, I'll punish them with a 20% tip where, you know what I mean? But I'll tip above that because I was in the industry and I know it's hard. I get it, but I don't really like and I know what they make. I do know they make less and the system hasn't changed. But I think what if they do change the system like Johnny and Vinny's, they're trying to change the system. But then it sounds like the wait staff still expects the tips. Tyler Bell: Well, I feel like they're not changing the system for them. They're changing it for themselves so they can pocket more money. Denalee Bell: Right? Tyler Bell: Yeah. That's not fair. Denalee Bell: And so nothing's really going to change. So let's say we do change it and people just increase their price. We're still going to tip. Tyler Bell: It's just a new way to be greedy really. Denalee Bell: It's just another way to get more money. So it's just this never ending nightmare that we've created unless we go to New Zealand and you just don't have to tip. Right? But like you said, you didn't get the service in Europe when you guys went this year. And I do like someone refilling my drink. You said that was hard to get done, right? Yeah. Nicole Hreniuc: They usually just leave you one of those refillable glass bottles and just go do their own thing Tyler Bell: Or aqua or whatever. Denalee Bell: So we are a little spoiled here in America and we like our drinks filled. Tyler Bell: Yeah, I think that's fair. I dunno, Denalee Bell: I'm willing to tip for that Tyler Bell: I guess. I think my stance on it is be bold. You don't owe anybody anything and if you know what, there's an etiquette to do something a certain way and do that, if that makes sense to you. And if it doesn't make sense to you, don't do it. But be fair, I Denalee Bell: Made great money serving and bartending. I mean it was more than I probably could have made doing anything else at that age. So wasn't I don't get the poor me, I don't make enough thing because even at a dollar 90 an hour, I still did well with the tips. So I don't get this entitlement. Tyler Bell: Yeah, I can agree with that. Denalee Bell: Oh, you guys both agree. Nobody's going to argue with me. The argument I see a lot online is these poor servers only make less than this. We must give them more and more and more. It's a command we do. But if you're doing your job, it will come right people. And if you're doing your job, you're going above and beyond and you're not making it go to a different restaurant. Nicole Hreniuc: You have to have a passion for it if you really want that money. That's why it's fast money. You have to work for it. You have to put on a show. Denalee Bell: You do. And when you don't feel good, do you still have to show up when stuff is happening at home? You still have to smile and sometimes it feels cringey and fake, but it works. It's real. Tyler Bell: You know what? You make some good money doing it if you do it right. You know what it feels like though, this wave, what it feels like the employees are doing. It feels like our corrupt government right now. It does. They're making it seem like the employees are the bad people, but the government's really the bad people, right? Yes. They're pointing at the what is it like these institutions that the government raises and then the people are mad at the institutions, but who's really the people that they should be mad at Denalee Bell: The employers who are not paying these guys enough. But I don't really believe in that. This is my soapbox moment. I don't believe they're not getting paid enough. If you've got a bartender getting mad, she only got $10 for two minutes of work and she's got multiple tables going on, she's probably making 50 to a hundred bucks an hour. I don't know. Bartenders, I mean they make a lot of money Nicole Hreniuc: At my restaurant. They make six figures. Denalee Bell: So I'm having a hard time with the, oh, these poor guys. Tyler Bell: And you know what? It's the name of the job. Sometimes you're just going to have bad nights. Sometimes you're going to have good nights. Denalee Bell: Did, yeah, there's slow nights, but there's big nights Tyler Bell: And it compensates and it averages out to a livable wage usually most of the time. Denalee Bell: And my other argument is, if this isn't for you and you feel entitled to it, this might not be the right job for you because we're literally serving somebody. It might be the Tyler Bell: Wrong restaurant. Your Denalee Bell: Job is to serve somebody Tyler Bell: Might be the wrong restaurant if you don't like Denalee Bell: How it could just be the wrong restaurant if you're not making any money. Wrong area. Yeah, Nicole Hreniuc: Of course. Maybe I don't do good in fine dining, but I do good in a faster environment that's a little bit more casual. I Tyler Bell: Do better at Chili's. Denalee Bell: Maybe you should move up to fine dining. There's more money in it Nicole Hreniuc: And you have the personality for it Tyler Bell: And the skillset. Yeah. Denalee Bell: Next topic. Let's say you're going to dinner and you've decided to go with your friend and you're going to split the bill, but your friend orders a significant amount more than you Tyler Bell: Orders four cocktails. Denalee Bell: Yes. What do you do Tyler Bell: My want to say? What I would do? Denalee Bell: I want what you want to say and what you would do. Tyler Bell: I would want to say you're going to pay for your own part. pud. Nicole Hreniuc: See, I am the type, I'm a little bit too bold about it I think. But I am the type, if I was in a restaurant and I asked the server to split it, I'd say, can we have our exact things on our receipt? Oh, Denalee Bell: That's a good way to handle that. Just split it with the server. So there was a time you couldn't really do that, but they do have those point of system sales where that's pretty easy. Nicole Hreniuc: Or you could say, can I split it in half? But have all of the drinks be put on this part of the bill. Denalee Bell: I have Tyler Bell: A friend be the first one to speak to the server when the check comes around. I think that's a good route. Denalee Bell: I have a friend who we often split a meal with because she doesn't eat much and I probably eat more. So it works out for me, but I don't think I paid more. Tyler Bell: I think it depends on the disparity between what you ordered and they ordered. Because if it's not much, if it's not much, we'll just go half. You know what I mean? Here just split it half half. Yeah. Nicole Hreniuc: I feel like if they just ordered a drink more than me or anything, I'm kind of the type two go. Tyler Bell: But when it's a lot, I think it is a good idea to, what I actually would do is talk to the server first, be like, yeah, we're going separate. Separate checks, please. I don't know. I think it's interesting though, when you have a penny pincher that's really counting every penny when you could split it in half, but it's like you're missing five bucks. Somebody didn't pay for five bucks of the meal. I think it's interesting when they get really grouchy about it, are you talking Denalee Bell: About your father? Tyler Bell: If it's a small disparity and you're throwing a fit over five bucks, I mean who really? Come Denalee Bell: On. So your dad likes things to be super fair and him and his brother, it's comical. They split the gas down to the penny. If they go on a trip, it is down to the penny. And I find that stressful and fascinating. I'd be so afraid I'd forget something and offend that person. Well, Tyler Bell: You have a relationship with somebody. What goes around comes around. I got you this time. You got me next time. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be like bam. Denalee Bell: I love the ones who, okay, so I have a person in my life who we do this back and forth with, and I hope she doesn't watch this. She's going to know it's her. If she pays one time, she feels like she's really done something so she's not going to pay again for many times. Yeah, that's a tricky one. It is Tyler Bell: Interesting the delusion people have about how much they participate in a relationship Denalee Bell: Financially. Nicole Hreniuc: I think it's really funny when I get a Venmo request for a dollar and 25 cents. Oh, Denalee Bell: That is hilarious. That's how you kids handle it. Yeah. So somebody sends, so whoever pays for it sends the request. Oh Nicole Hreniuc: Wow. Weird. But I think it's really funny. I mean, of course decline it, I'll send money, but I just think it's like when I get a can you send me 38 cents? I'm like, why? Tyler Bell: That's crazy. Nicole Hreniuc: I've gotten some ridiculous one ones from friends. It is Denalee Bell: Crazy. I'm joking, Tyler Bell: Right? Nicole Hreniuc: You shorted me 25 cents. Can you send it to me on Venmo? Tyler Bell: You really need that quarter. Nicole Hreniuc: I Denalee Bell: Think $20 would be my threshold. Maybe even Tyler Bell: I would go 10. I would go 10 ten's pushing the limit for me. Denalee Bell: Yeah. Well Tyler Bell: Yeah, send me a 10. Denalee Bell: I get it. In college that's different because you guys are, how much time do you have to work and you have to go to school, Tyler Bell: Especially in this day and age. Yeah, Denalee Bell: I totally get that. Where, Tyler Bell: But if it's like seven bucks, who cares? Nicole Hreniuc: Hey, you drink half my drink. Can I Venmo request you? You Denalee Bell: Had three more ounces than me. Tyler Bell: I feel like it causes more stress to be fair to that degree me, than it would be to just forget about it and hope that it comes back around. And if it doesn't set strong boundaries, Denalee Bell: I don't even mind paying the extra or doing the extra dinner when you're going back and forth. But when it becomes like, okay, I'm foreign, I get a little Tyler Bell: Frustrated and then it's expected of you to the weight. Well Denalee Bell: Then I'm like, carry the weight. Did we forget that we're friends here? Yeah. And I'm not your benefactor. Tyler Bell: Literally. Literally. Yeah. Denalee Bell: So you have a friend who had a weird expectation of you? Nicole Hreniuc: Yes. I was celebrating something and one of my friends made a comment like, oh, I would really love a side of fries right now. And so I ordered some food for me and Tyler, Tyler had a bill open at the bar that we went Denalee Bell: To in case you didn't know they were together. Yes. In case you haven't watched every one of our podcasts. Tyler Bell: That's my smoking hot girlfriend. Nicole Hreniuc: So I went and I ordered food on Tyler's tab and I let Tyler just save the table and she followed me with, so I kind of just thought that she was going to order her own food. I ordered my own and they gave me one of those little buzzers and I walked back to the table and she walked back with me. Denalee Bell: And this was your birthday? Nicole Hreniuc: It was my birthday. This was your birthday. So I turned around and I was like, Hey, are you not going to order food or did you just want to come with and just hang out? And she was like, oh no, kind of brush it away. And then I went and I picked up the food once it was ready and she made it very clear that, oh, I wanted to split some food with my friend. I can't believe that you didn't do that. I've never been put in one of those situations before. It's really Tyler Bell: Strange. It's Denalee Bell: Strange since it was, it's a weird watch your birthday. She should be on day it birthday to buy you for fries or something. Nicole Hreniuc: I feel like if she would've looked at me and said, Hey, can you order this? And we split it, I'd be like, yeah, absolutely. There was no communication behind it. So then it kind of turned me into people pleasing a little bit. I feel like if I've been put in situations like that before, I usually just pretend that I didn't say anything just to make sure that nobody's Denalee Bell: Uncomfortable, not worth it. Yeah, exactly. Tyler Bell: It was a really strong expectation. It was a really weird expectation. Nicole Hreniuc: It was just a side of fries Denalee Bell: And she was kind of upset about it. Nicole Hreniuc: She was pretty upset about it. Yeah. Tyler Bell: It's really weird, specifically on your birthday to feel entitled to these fries that she didn't really communicate that strongly about and then to throw a fit in front of everybody. It Nicole Hreniuc: Was a very bizarre thing to happen. And it's like hearing you talk about it now or me talk about it now. I'm just like, this does not even sound like a problem, but it was a problem in the moment. Go up Tyler Bell: And go buy yourself Denalee Bell: Some surprise. Maybe it wasn't. Sometimes when it's about the fries, it's not really about the fries. Maybe something else is going on in Tyler Bell: Her life, I think was really about the fries. Oh Nicole Hreniuc: No, I think it was about the fries. That's Denalee Bell: Frightening. Tyler Bell: It was really weird. It was really strange to watch that. And the level of the disappointment after and the manipulation that they brought you to and to make you feel bad on your birthday that you didn't buy them fries. That Denalee Bell: Is just bizarre to me. Yeah, it was. Everyone should be buying you. You shouldn't be paid for a thing. I mean, I Nicole Hreniuc: Love her. She's one of my good friends. It was just odd. Was a little bit of a roadblock Tyler Bell: I did. It was from my Denalee Bell: Tab. Oh, okay. It was Nicole Hreniuc: Tyler's tab, so he did buy me fries. I just didn't know that she wanted some. I was only ordering food for me and Tyler. Denalee Bell: Okay. So I'm wondering if the financial, okay, inflation is, it's hurting people. Are we getting down to this is a deal? Do you know what I mean? Where this is, she might be that upset because I mean our times are getting that tough. I mean food is expensive right now. Yeah, it truly is. You guys eat at home a lot, right? Tyler Bell: Yeah, but Nicole Hreniuc: Get a big mag. It was a little dive bar though. It was like three $4 fries. Get a big mag. I did buy her fries after I felt bad, but it was a weird people pleasing situation. I was like, I've never had such just to try Denalee Bell: Smooth it over. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah, Nicole Hreniuc: Exactly. I was like, I've never really had an issue for some Denalee Bell: Fries with fries on my birthday before. But Tyler Bell: No, I doubt this about you. Denalee Bell: If this isn't repeatable behavior, I mean, I think I'd give somebody a pass one time on crazy behavior. Nicole Hreniuc: I was like, you know what? She was drinking. Who knows? Denalee Bell: Okay guys, it's your first date. Tyler asked you out. Who should pay Tyler Bell: Tyler? Nicole Hreniuc: I think it just depends on how you navigate your relationships. Denalee Bell: It's your first date. For Nicole Hreniuc: Me, in my terms, I would want him to pay. Denalee Bell: What if you asked him out? I Nicole Hreniuc: Would still want him to pay me Denalee Bell: Too. I Nicole Hreniuc: Agree. I think that also just depends on how you navigate relationships. If you find value in a man taking that initiative, then that's what works for you. If you find value in going 50 50, that's what works for you. Tyler Bell: I feel like if you are the girl and you ask the guy out on a date, you should be prepared. Nicole Hreniuc: I think so too. You never know how a guy will react to it, right? Tyler Bell: Yeah. But if he's a standup gentleman, he'll probably pay for the first bill. I Denalee Bell: Fully agree. I think you should be prepared to pay if you've asked the guy out. But if you are my son, you should be paying for the first date. I agree. Yeah. Nicole Hreniuc: He paid for the first date. Denalee Bell: Yeah, Tyler Bell: I pay for the first date. Just Denalee Bell: Making sure. Tyler Bell: Yeah. And then moving forward, you can split it however you want. Yeah, she buys a meal sometimes I buy her meals sometimes. Denalee Bell: Okay. How does that work out? Tyler Bell: I think I buy the majority of meals. Yeah, you Nicole Hreniuc: Do. Denalee Bell: Do you guys think that works? Nicole Hreniuc: It's more, I feel like the only times I really do pay is when I offer. Yeah. It's rare that Tyler asks me to pay. Denalee Bell: So when I met your father, I was recently divorced and I did not want a man to take care of me, so I paid for half of everything. So what happened was is we did a lot of really fun stuff, like expensive stuff, and I didn't make as much money as him, so I went and do credit card debt trying to keep up. And this is why I lecture everyone about credit cards, but I dug my whole way out of it, but it was insane. I was going to pay for half and then he started to expect it. So I remember one time he paid for dinner and then it was my term and he handed me the bill and I was like, Nicole Hreniuc: Are Denalee Bell: You joking me? His family was with us and I was like, I think I did something wrong here. But this was 30 years ago, folks. I'm not mad about it anymore, but how I see things now, if I were in those shoes again and how we talked about it later after we worked that out is he made probably five times as much money as I did. And our money was separate. Our money was separate up until probably five years ago. And so we kind of kept this as part of our relationship. So because he made five times as much, he paid for probably five meals and then I'd pay for one. And that kind of made sense for us and people, you have to figure out your own thing, but I felt like I wanted to contribute sometimes, but I also did a lot. I felt, and this is probably into traditional values because we lived together, we weren't married at the time. Sorry, God. But I did the cleaning, I did the cooking, I did the household stuff. So I kind of felt like it's okay if he bought me a dinner. Nicole Hreniuc: That's kind of how me and Tyler's divide is. We don't live together, but it's more he'll pay for dates and then maybe I'll go buy some groceries and make dinner for one or two nights and contribute in that sense. Yeah. Denalee Bell: In the olden days, in my dad's days, there's no way he still wouldn't even up till the day he died, let me pay for a meal. He would not let a woman pay for a meal. Well, there's no way. He didn't even care if it was rude. He was very much a gentleman. He always made sure he puts you in between the street and the men. Yeah. I mean he is very much a Tyler Bell: Gentleman. I would like to be able to buy every meal and pay for every groceries, but we're young Nicole Hreniuc: Making our way to feel like you were established and older. I would have different, but we're 24. We're young. We're figuring it out. I don't think that those expectations matter right now. Yeah, Denalee Bell: I agree. But I think it's good if you guys can equally or contribute what makes sense for you. Tyler Bell: Yeah, I agree. Denalee Bell: If it Tyler Bell: Would suck to feel like you're being taken advantage of. I know you wouldn't do that, obviously, but there's the role that I think that a man has to provide. Right? And Denalee Bell: You gladly take that Tyler Bell: Role. I gladly. Yeah, and Denalee Bell: You gladly accept that he takes that role. Exactly. Tyler Bell: But it'd be nice if every once in a while she participated. Yeah. Denalee Bell: And she does. I do. Tyler Bell: And she does. Denalee Bell: Exactly. I just want to make sure that was heard there Tyler Bell: And she does. She totally does. She totally does. Yeah. Yeah. Denalee Bell: I kind of think that whoever invites, the person pays for it. So if I invite you, if we're not planning like an event, hey, let's everyone get together, but hey, let's go out to dinner. I kind think if that's the invitation I'm going to pay even as couples sometimes if it's kind of my event or you know what I mean? I don't mind paying. I Tyler Bell: Think specifically for friends, Denalee Bell: I think it's interesting when I've purchased somebody many meals and then they invite me to dinner that I still am expected to pay. And I think that that is weird and I don't like it. Tyler Bell: Yeah. I feel like for my age right now, I think the rule of thumb is if we're going to both choose to go out to dinner together, we're going to pay for our own stuff. If Javi came over and we're like, oh, we're hungry and we order something, or we're going to like, Hey, do you want to go grab a bite real quick? Just pay for your own stuff. And I Nicole Hreniuc: Think that that should be normal. I think the expectation should be you're paying for your own. And then if someone says out loud, Hey, I'm going to pay for this, Denalee Bell: And Nicole Hreniuc: It's the only time it should be appropriate, Tyler Bell: But if you can't pay for your own meal or you Nicole Hreniuc: Have the expectation that's wrong, you Denalee Bell: Probably shouldn't go. You Tyler Bell: Shouldn't go. Yeah. If you can't pay for it, you have that expectation. Denalee Bell: It's just like on the first date, be prepared to pay. Yeah, Tyler Bell: Be prepared Denalee Bell: To pay, but don't be expected that somebody else is going to pay for you. Tyler Bell: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You shouldn't have the pressure to pay for everybody's meal. Right. You shouldn't feel like you have to. So Denalee Bell: What if you don't drink alcohol and you're taking somebody out, say, Hey, I want to take you out for dinner. You just did a lot for me. Thank you for all that you've done for me. I want to take you as a thank you, but you don't drink alcohol. Nicole Hreniuc: The type, like I said earlier, I'm the type to be like, Hey, I didn't drink. How should we split this? Denalee Bell: Well, you've invited them and going to take them out though. Tyler Bell: Oh, and you said you're going to pay for their meal. I would say first drink on me. Denalee Bell: That's fair. That's fair. Your grandma handles this. Well, everyone knows if you go eat with grandma, she's not buying your drinks. You know what I mean? And most people don't even, we don't even, nobody drinks. I think that's Nicole Hreniuc: Kind of appropriate. Everybody drinks differently. Tyler Bell: First drink on me. Drinks are expensive. I'm not going to blow 50 bucks watching You have five drinks or four or three, however Denalee Bell: We're at. Yeah. That wasn't the intention to sit here and watch you get drunk while I Yeah. Yeah. So what about if you are invited to dinner and you're going to get paid for, how do you order? Nicole Hreniuc: I think you should just let the other person order first. Watch their lead. Tyler Bell: Yeah. I think that's smart. I would say medium priced options. Denalee Bell: So I think when I would tell you if you're going to go out with a girlfriend's dinner, I would always tell you order less than you would do with us and always order less than the host and don't ever, ever choose the highest expensive, most expensive thing in the option. And I always wanted you to order less than the host did. So if they ordered a $20 item, you need to go less than 20 Tyler Bell: Unless they're over exuberant about me ordering whatever I wanted. Denalee Bell: Fair. Yeah. Because when we eat out, it's an experience. Tyler Bell: Yeah. Yeah. There was a time when we went to Europe, to your home country in Romania. We went to some nice restaurants and I'm like, I don't know what to get. I think I should get this option. And you're like, have fun. Get whatever you want. And I'm like, sure. You're like, yeah, do it. So I Denalee Bell: Think that was a great way to handle it because you ask. Nicole Hreniuc: Yeah. We have that comfort though, where I could be honest with you and be like, Hey, I don't know if that's appropriate for this group. Exactly. I feel like if you ask other people, they might people please you and be like, yeah, I do whatever. But then really they'll be upset. Tyler Bell: Even then though, I think it's a good idea to aim for a medium priced. I think Denalee Bell: So too when you're not paying. But I also think, I don't know, when the three of us, when we go out to eat, we kind of like it's an experience. So I want you guys to enjoy yourselves. But you guys know that, Nicole Hreniuc: Oh gosh, that made me nervous when I first met Tyler. Tyler Bell: I mean, it's not like I'm getting a deluxe seafood, cold seafood tower for myself. Right? No, Denalee Bell: But if you wanted to, you would ask. Tyler Bell: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, it is just extra. If I'm going to order a nice meal in my terms, I might get a medium high priced or item. Denalee Bell: Yeah. I mean, but we're family. It's different Tyler Bell: With you guys, but maybe her family in that instance Denalee Bell: In you're up. I see. I Tyler Bell: See. You're saying maybe I'll get the medium high thing this time. Denalee Bell: Yes. So I think how I would handle, I mean I guess that's what the etiquette is, is you eat less than your host. Tyler Bell: Don't be an a-hole. Denalee Bell: The etiquette is to tip 20% more if they go above and beyond. That's the current etiquette. I didn't make the rules. Tyler Bell: I got to think for that. So for me, it's easy to calculate the 20% because you just move the decimal over and then you double it. And then from there, so say it's like a $35 tab, you move it over $3.5 - $7 is what you would pay if it was 20%. However, if it was the change to round up to the dollar amount or below the dollar amount, I'll round up if they've been pretty cool and I'll round down to the next dollar amount if they've been not so cool. So Denalee Bell: On bartenders, I probably would tip 20% as well. I don't know if it's the expectation anymore, but you know what I mean, four or five beers, just tip $20 does seem excessive to me. I might've done that anyway just because I've worked in the industry. But I do understand why people get upset about it. If you do dine with somebody, be respectful, pay your fair share. I mean, these are just normal things. But I see why people are getting edgy with how much things cost Tyler Bell: Times is changing. Yep, Denalee Bell: They are. I mean, food's expensive. Eating out's expensive. You guys cook at home more than ever. Correct. Tyler Bell: I like it that way though. But it's Nicole Hreniuc: Fun. Denalee Bell: And you guys cook good? Nicole Hreniuc: Yeah, we have fun. Tyler Bell: I like to upgrade them skills. Denalee Bell: All right. Thank you guys for joining us again, talking about the important matters of life, how much to tip people, how you feel about it. Please write your perspectives. Maybe we're missing something. We missed the boat. Anyway, thanks for tuning into Soapy Box. Tyler Bell: Make sure to subscribe, all that good stuff. And I like this episode. I thought it was fun to talk about a little more practical things than such. Deep, scary Nicole Hreniuc: Stuff. Yeah, it's a fun little episode, huh? Denalee Bell: Yeah, we usually talk about deep, scary things sometimes. Tyler Bell: Come in if you want us to talk about less deep, scary things. Denalee Bell: Thank you so Denalee: Much. Thank you. See you. See you soon.