0:04

Antarctica, a place of scientific

0:06

research and study and rarely a place

0:08

for criminal activity. Though at

0:10

the turn of the century, an Australian astrophysicist

0:12

came down with a sudden illness before dying

0:15

a day later. Due to winter setting

0:17

in, a proper autopsy wouldn't be possible

0:19

for another six months. Today

0:21

we discuss the only cold case

0:23

and potentially the first recorded murder

0:26

in Antarctica, the death of Rodney

0:28

Marks. This is Red

0:30

Web. Welcome

0:38

back Task Force to another episode of

0:40

Red Web, the podcast all about mysteries

0:42

the unsolved and the unknown of this

0:44

world. I am your resident mystery enthusiast,

0:46

Trevor Collins, and joining me hearing this

0:48

case for the very first time, Alfredo

0:51

Diaz. The thing, sci-fi, horror,

0:53

thriller, boom, movie ratio that

0:56

fast, baby. That

0:59

has been another episode of Red Web. We solve the case.

1:01

It's an alien from outer space. Honestly,

1:03

it does give a lot of the thing vibes. Yeah,

1:05

it gave me those vibes. I

1:08

just can't...why? People? Why

1:11

are we way out there? Let's unfold it.

1:13

Keep going. I want to know more about your instincts

1:15

here because you have a lot of preservation instincts. It's

1:18

just like... It's far, it's cold.

1:20

It's so far, it's so cold, it's

1:23

so isolated. And we

1:25

do nothing but uncover zombie

1:28

viruses that have been

1:30

iced and stowed away for centuries. Right.

1:38

Ancient lakes that have not been touched by

1:40

man hands and now we're like, oh, bacteria?

1:42

Let's just get up in there. I'm not

1:44

gonna suck that down. With no glove, with

1:47

no Dawn soap. It's just... I

1:49

know Dawn soap. We're not saving

1:51

penguins or anything here. You're

1:53

not wrong. It's just

1:55

terrifying and I get that man wants to

1:58

push the limits. For

2:00

sure, but I feel like and you know what

2:02

this is the stamp podcast it did to

2:04

me I feel like and we should push the

2:07

limits of our planet. We should

2:09

do it with the sea There's so much

2:11

unexplored with the sea. That's true. And I'm

2:13

just kaiju. That's it I'm just gonna put

2:15

the word out like we don't know put

2:18

the word out It's

2:20

just it's just so much unexplored in the

2:22

sea. I'm gonna stop with Antarctica

2:25

I will say it's probably easier

2:27

to It's

2:30

way easier to maintain yourself there than it is in the

2:32

dead 100 100% but we just put the focus in it

2:37

Again, I'll start on the horn buff

2:39

scientists, right? You get this I'm

2:41

sure NASA's got a line of buff scientists Just

2:44

ready to figure stuff out Yeah And then

2:46

to back them up is a bunch of

2:48

other buff scientists training to help them figure

2:50

stuff out So just like get them on

2:53

the whole layers of buff. I'm just buffed

2:55

up scientists. I'm just saying. Yeah

2:57

Yeah, so knowledgeable that their brains

2:59

veiny vascular with muscle. Yeah, I

3:01

just it's a it's just crazy

3:03

because if anything goes down Out

3:05

there. Yeah, good luck if you

3:07

thought like getting a contractor to

3:10

fix your Water heater

3:12

or your Erica you're blown out like

3:14

air conditioning It's

3:16

taking way too long. Just imagine being out there. Yeah,

3:18

I get I mean who do you even? you

3:21

contact Jill or or Philippe

3:25

down the street who's like the resident one

3:27

mechanic? Yeah, I mean like there's one person

3:29

in the town That's like alright. We fix

3:31

everything was down. I hope I'm not you

3:34

know sleeping in today. It's just a whole

3:36

town Why yeah, it's so cold

3:38

task force and I really appreciate social media

3:40

for making this kind of information accessible It's

3:43

so cold You know there's scientists down there

3:45

making videos Pouring soda into a glass and

3:47

and by the time it's hitting the bottom

3:49

of the glass the whole stream up into

3:51

the can Is frozen you go outside

3:53

without any protective gear you could like

3:55

within the minute or two start to

3:58

hit like Shock

4:00

right because it's so cold you can start

4:02

to have dangerous like levels of

4:04

chill hitting you you have a Moist

4:06

towel that you whip out. Yeah, like somebody made

4:09

a video there. Yeah, they were like, oh, let's

4:11

let's it's a nice cool Day at the beach

4:13

opens the door. It's the Arctic tundra. He whips

4:15

the towel. It's frozen suddenly Geez, and he had

4:18

to film it in bits because he would go

4:20

out and he's wearing like swim trunks or something

4:22

Yeah, he had to film it like five segments

4:24

just to do a 30 second clip because they

4:27

had to keep running in right It's too cold.

4:29

You start crying your eyes are gonna freeze up.

4:31

I didn't even think about all sorts of stuff

4:33

like that That's what we're talking about. That's true.

4:36

Yeah, so what if you just we

4:38

just pour water down your boys You

4:51

just constipated your boy What

4:54

a what a what a crime that's the

4:57

second crime in Antarctica, okay, so Coming

4:59

to the business at hand. Oh, by the way,

5:01

we have special guest Nick Bott our editor in

5:03

the background Really nice

5:05

to have you we are coming up a little

5:08

time slippage here task force We are coming

5:10

up on the holidays. You are in the

5:12

in the midst of a cold January So

5:15

that's that you're gonna see some like different

5:17

voices in the room as people are kind

5:19

of off for the holidays But yeah, Antarctica

5:21

not a lot of crime has happened there's

5:23

like five major cases early back to the

5:25

kind of 50s all the way up into

5:27

just a few years ago and each

5:30

of them either has a suspect or The

5:34

crime is kind of up in the air Like the first one

5:36

back in the 50s was some people say it was a murder

5:38

some people say it was non-lethal I don't know how we don't

5:40

have that figured out But right this

5:42

could be I wonder like there's

5:44

like there should be some kind

5:46

of study behind that because I wonder Why

5:49

is that so well, I think it's

5:51

because of the government's in play the

5:54

misinformation this involved the USSR

5:56

Soviet Union. Yeah, so there's

5:58

you're thinking that there's been murder and they just

6:00

don't report. It's possible. Oh. Or

6:03

it could have been misreported, things of that nature.

6:05

Someone got attacked over a chess game with an

6:07

ice pick. Yeah. Well, I'm just

6:09

thinking like, I just, I don't

6:11

know, right, because of the town? Yeah,

6:14

there's some towns like, kind of like scientific

6:16

little towns. Yeah, I like scientific towns. But

6:18

not like a town you and I would

6:20

know. They're just like bases. Yeah, okay, like

6:23

yeah, bases and stuff like that. Yeah,

6:25

I guess there's not a lot of people there, because I

6:27

was thinking if there's more people, like what is the, what

6:31

is the human mind

6:34

behind just like not, I'm

6:36

assuming the low crime rates and stuff like that.

6:38

Oh, yeah. It's just because everyone's just like, look,

6:40

it's already rough out here in general. And

6:43

you're not gonna get away with it kind of

6:45

thing? Right, yeah, how you're gonna get away with

6:47

it, yeah. Well, you also have the psychology of

6:49

loneliness and being far removed

6:51

from society. And when we are social

6:53

creatures, like in such a harsh environment,

6:56

it's very interesting and probably still so

6:58

much to be studied. But again, depending

7:00

on like this, this topic is going

7:02

to live a lot in the theories. There's a lot to

7:04

discuss within those theories. But depending on

7:07

the theory that you subscribe to, this could

7:09

be the first recorded murder in

7:11

Antarctica. And it certainly is one of the only,

7:13

if not the only cold cases, because all the

7:15

other ones kind of have suspects. This is kind

7:17

of up in the air. It is a wild

7:20

case to have such kind of little information as

7:22

to who and what the motive might have been.

7:25

But without further ado, we should dive in. But

7:27

I do wanna give a shout out to our

7:29

first members. If you want this podcast Red Web,

7:32

if you want it commercial free, ad free, you

7:34

want some bonus content that Fredo and I make

7:36

on the side over on the Rooster Teeth app.

7:38

Or just wanna help keep the lights going. Or

7:40

you wanna keep these airwaves alive, you

7:42

can become a first member at redwebpod.com/first.

7:45

It's the best way to support us.

7:47

Oh, and also, like we always do, we're gonna

7:49

put a list of sensitive topics in the description

7:51

for this episode. But with that said, let's dive

7:54

in to the death of Rodney Marks.

7:56

In 2000, 32 year old Rodney Marks

7:59

was working. looking for the Amundsen

8:01

Scott South Pole Station in Antarctica. So

8:03

station, there's the word. Got it. This

8:05

is a US research station that was

8:07

built in 1956 for geophysical

8:09

studies, and public research

8:11

has been governed here by the National

8:14

Science Foundation. It is the only place

8:16

on the planet with six months of

8:18

continuous day, and then six months of

8:21

continuous night. They last from

8:23

October to March, and night lasts from

8:25

April to September. That's so wild to

8:27

wrap my head around. I don't know

8:29

if I could do that. I

8:34

think I'd be good with it, but I don't know

8:36

what that would do to my psyche. You

8:38

know what I mean? Just constant night. For

8:41

that severity, when you're at the South Pole,

8:43

rather, that's pretty stark. I know there's people

8:45

in North Norway who are like, they love

8:47

that. They love the twilight of it all,

8:49

and then it becomes dark for three months,

8:52

not six months. And I know some people

8:54

that just thrive in that. They love it.

8:56

And then they love summers with longer, like

8:58

three months of sun. But that's

9:01

definitely something to get used to. That's

9:03

a lot. I think the

9:05

days where it's just sun all the

9:07

time, I think that would get to me. Like

9:09

night, I can function at night. I could go

9:12

out, work, have fun, sleep

9:15

at night. You know what I mean? If

9:17

it's just daylight all the time, you're not

9:19

trying to sleep. Yeah, you got

9:21

to get blackout curtains. But people start to miss

9:23

the sun. You kind of

9:25

would underestimate just how much you would

9:28

miss those golden rays. Now,

9:30

during night, the temperatures can reach as

9:32

low as negative 99 degrees Fahrenheit

9:35

or negative 73 Celsius. Oh

9:38

my God. Very cold. Some

9:41

contract work for Raytheon, a defense

9:43

aerospace manufacturer, also occurs in this

9:46

area. So Rodney

9:48

Marks was an astrophysicist and operated

9:50

the University of Chicago's Antarctic submillimeter

9:53

telescope. And remote observatory, aka Astro.

9:55

So whenever I say Astro, that's

9:57

what I'm referring to. He

10:00

operated that by himself. Astro

10:02

was able to see extremely small wavelengths

10:04

thanks to the dry cold weather of

10:06

the South Pole. The telescope

10:08

was located in what is known as the

10:10

Dark Sector, about 1 kilometer or 0.6

10:13

miles from the living area to limit

10:15

interference from noise and light. Even

10:18

in the South Pole area, you got

10:20

light pollution. Marx had

10:23

operated Astro from 1997 to 1998 and

10:26

returned to work on Astro after the

10:28

previous operator left due to her diagnosis

10:30

with breast cancer. On May 11,

10:33

2000, while walking from Astro to the main

10:35

base, Marx was suddenly struck with illness. Now

10:38

remember, this is a little more

10:40

than half a mile, a kilometer walk back

10:42

to base. This is a long,

10:44

kind of stressful walk given the climate. Right.

10:48

Mmm. It's just so risky.

10:50

Very risky. On top of that, like I

10:53

said, he was struck with sudden illness. He had trouble breathing. He

10:56

was suddenly very fatigued. He had blurred vision,

10:58

all things you would not want to feel in the midst

11:00

of a walk like that. I'm sure

11:02

they do have weather conditions like advisories. If it's too

11:04

bad, like you don't make the walk. But either way,

11:07

it's still a treacherous kind of business. So

11:09

Marx visited the station doctor, Robert Thompson,

11:11

but he was uncertain about Marx illness.

11:14

Thompson personally assumed Marx was affected

11:16

by alcohol withdrawal or suffered from

11:19

anxiety for various reasons. He told

11:21

Marx, just get some rest. Maybe

11:24

we'll see if you're better in a couple days. You

11:26

know, I didn't think about that either. Like you

11:29

really have probably one

11:31

person that has a specialty

11:33

in like individual fields. Right.

11:36

Yep. Like if

11:38

you're one engineer, you run into an

11:40

issue that they can't solve. Like

11:43

damn, I mean, you have the internet, right? So

11:45

you can communicate. Yeah. Which

11:47

so okay. Like, yeah, that kind of helps. But God,

11:50

I couldn't imagine being out there in the 50s. Yeah.

11:53

Yeah. No, thanks. Like

11:55

nowadays you can communicate with through the internet. But

11:57

if you just have the one doctor and the

11:59

one. doctor can't tell what's going on, you can't

12:01

go to a different one. Right, you can't get

12:04

a second opinion. Right, you can't get a second

12:06

opinion. There's no doctor down the hall that they

12:08

can ask, there's no like other like I don't

12:10

know, plethora of nurses or anything, back them up

12:12

like, oof. Yeah, you better hope

12:14

he's in network. Yeah. I

12:17

mean, insurance, Joe. But seriously, like,

12:19

it is limited. And

12:22

obviously, everybody that's out there is trained and highly

12:24

reviewed because you are the one person that

12:27

does that thing. I

12:29

digress, you know, he's sent home, he's going

12:31

to go get some rest, see how he feels. And in the

12:33

next morning, around 5 30 a.m.,

12:35

he wakes up feeling even worse. Like his

12:37

condition is spiraling at this point. He's

12:39

vomiting blood. He was so sensitive to

12:42

light that he had to wear sunglasses

12:44

while indoors. And he felt pain

12:46

throughout all of his muscles. Marx

12:48

visited Dr. Thompson again, but the doctor assumed

12:50

Marx was having now a panic attack and

12:52

gave him a sedative and in

12:54

order to get him to get that needed

12:56

rest. Maybe get him through these immediate symptoms

12:58

and, you know, maybe again, you'll

13:01

feel better on the other side. I'll

13:03

be honest, in my non

13:06

knowledge of medical, in

13:09

the medical field or anything like that, I

13:11

feel like if you're

13:13

vomiting blood, you're past the whole

13:15

just get some rest. Right. You

13:18

know, that seems pretty bad. Right. I

13:21

don't think I've had a panic attack that involved incredible

13:23

light sensitivity and vomiting blood. Yeah.

13:26

I wonder if I'm in blood. There's

13:29

something drastically wrong. Yes. And

13:31

I don't think it's like I just dressed up and take some

13:33

night. Well, yeah. And we will do the

13:35

trick. Right. And it's easy to sit here

13:37

in hindsight because we know we're talking about a cold case. So it's

13:39

easy to go. It's a suspicious doctor activity. But

13:42

even then, though, you're back to this in the

13:44

series. Even then, I mean, like

13:46

the vomiting applied, man. That's just such a new red

13:49

flag. It's a big red flag. Yeah.

13:51

So suffice to say, Marx is

13:53

still feeling worse. Years go by

13:55

even after taking the sedative and

13:58

he's feeling worse. And now he's hyperventilating.

14:00

This time the doctor gives him an

14:02

antipsychotic known as Haldol. 45

14:05

minutes later, Marx went into cardiac arrest

14:07

and passed away. This was around 6.45pm on

14:09

May 12th. His

14:13

death occurred during the continuous night period when

14:15

no flights were allowed in or out so

14:17

Marx's body had to be kept in a

14:19

freezer. Winter had settled in,

14:21

conditions weren't great. Basically, it's like the

14:23

shining. Once winter sets in, you're locked

14:25

in. Yeah. And that's like

14:27

nothing comes in or out. You have local supplies

14:29

and that's what you got. It is, it's still

14:31

even in the modern era, a very dangerous place

14:33

to go because you don't know what could happen.

14:36

So the National Science Foundation informed the

14:38

public that Marx had passed away from

14:40

natural causes. But it was unknown

14:42

what exactly caused Marx's death for six

14:44

months until his body could be flown

14:47

to New Zealand. In fact, Christchurch, New

14:49

Zealand for a proper autopsy. Again, that

14:51

was six months later. He

14:53

was kept on ice. I wonder what

14:56

that does to the body. Yes.

15:00

I mean, it's just... Normally,

15:02

you want to get in there as fast as

15:04

possible. So that way you... Ah man. Freezing

15:07

is going to destroy a lot of tissues. Yeah. I

15:09

mean, again, I'm also not a doctor, but I'm just going off

15:11

of instinct here. I could imagine

15:14

certain chemicals could have half-lites. Exactly.

15:17

Even though it's frozen. You still don't know the

15:19

length of a chemical within

15:21

the body. Right. And

15:23

it goes in terms of like, I

15:25

don't know, blood cell counts, all that kind

15:27

of... It all just

15:30

drastically changes with not

15:32

just time, but also

15:34

the temperature that the body was left in.

15:37

Absolutely. And task force, I know there's a lot

15:39

of forensics scientists, investigators,

15:42

folks in the task force that just know forensics as well.

15:45

Let us know what you think if you have instincts as

15:47

we unfold this case and talk about the theories. Hit

15:50

us up on social, at redwebpod. We'd love

15:52

to hear from you. So now let's move

15:54

on to the investigation. The autopsy in New

15:57

Zealand found that Marx had died from methanol

15:59

poisoning. Methanol is known as

16:01

a wood alcohol. It's used for

16:03

fuel, pesticides, paint to make formaldehyde,

16:05

antifreeze, among many other things that

16:08

one should not consume. It's highly

16:10

flammable. It's colorless and it smells

16:12

and tastes very similar to

16:14

alcohol, which is an interesting note. The

16:16

report showed that he had drunk supposedly 150 milliliters

16:19

of methanol. That's

16:21

about the equivalent of maybe a

16:23

soda can or a small glass of wine. The

16:26

coroner, Richard McElreya, found needle

16:28

marks on Marx's arms, but

16:31

no drugs in the toxicology

16:33

report. It's unknown if the

16:35

marks were from when Thompson gave him a

16:37

sedative, if they were recreational in some

16:39

manner, or if they had some other nefarious origin.

16:41

It just isn't known, but we do know that

16:44

there are some needle marks on his arm, I

16:46

believe two. I think I've been

16:48

like, how do you shots or something? Then again,

16:50

you take that on your butt cheek or like

16:52

your stomach. But true. You

16:55

know, there are recreational times you

16:57

use using the needle. Right. Exima

16:59

shots. Yeah. A

17:01

lot of things, a lot of things. While he

17:03

was known to drink to deal with the

17:05

symptoms of Tourette's syndrome, alcohol was not shown

17:08

in his autopsy. There was methanol

17:10

in a solvent used to clean the telescopes, but he

17:12

would have had to drink a lot of that for

17:14

the amount that was in his blood. Basically, it wasn't

17:16

like straight methanol that was used to clean the telescopes.

17:18

It was a some sort of fluid

17:21

that had it in there. Yeah. And so in order

17:23

to get that, I would do with other things as

17:25

well. Yeah. He would really had to cram a lot

17:27

of that down. And I don't know. That would have

17:29

been tough suffice to say. It also would have been

17:31

incredibly distasteful, probably very painful.

17:34

But yeah. So even though this

17:36

chemical has like an alcoholic

17:39

flavor to it, there wasn't like just

17:41

a jar of it or like an

17:43

abundance of it. That is a great question. We

17:46

don't have Christian with us today. I do have Julian on

17:48

the horn. I'm going to send that to her on our

17:50

messenger. But that's a great question. Because

17:52

otherwise, from what I've heard from

17:54

the case, what I've read, there hasn't

17:56

been a known just pure methanol canister

17:58

or vessel holding it. somewhere that we

18:00

know of. We just, I just think it makes

18:02

things even more mysterious. Yeah. So

18:05

suffice to say, we really don't know how

18:07

this amount of methanol got into his system.

18:10

My inclination when I first heard about this

18:12

case was that could you inject

18:14

it into a person? Was that what the

18:16

injection sites were? But then why wouldn't he

18:18

say something about this? That'd be a lot

18:20

though. Yeah. To inject. It would be. Now

18:23

the tricky laws and debated authority

18:25

of Antarctica have made investigating this

18:27

case difficult. And because of that,

18:29

it took multiple years. It is.

18:32

Wait, what? What? I don't know if it's

18:34

still like that's just us

18:36

getting our own damn way. Right. Well,

18:38

he's an Australian person. So he's like, well, you

18:41

know, that government's trying to step in to say

18:43

like, hey, we should be able to investigate what

18:45

happened to our own citizen. But then like whoever

18:47

owns the base is kind of like the US

18:49

is probably like, yeah, but that's our jurisdiction. It

18:51

happened on our quote soil. But then

18:53

everybody else in the world is kind

18:55

of like, well, it's Antarctica. It's unincorporated.

18:58

It's scientific land. Like

19:00

so we there are processes to

19:02

get there, but it's not necessarily

19:04

anyone's jurisdiction. So it's really wishy washy. Yeah.

19:06

And but I agree with you as a

19:08

human being, I'm kind of like, somebody

19:11

needs to just get to the bottom of this.

19:13

Right. I mean, just imagine being a family member.

19:15

Just like I don't stop your bickering.

19:17

Stop your fighting. I just

19:19

want answers. Like, yeah, the bottom of this.

19:22

So like that's what matters here. There's

19:24

a person that passed away. Right. Why? Now,

19:26

before we move on too far again, we

19:28

know that methanol was on site in various

19:31

things like the telescope cleaner. But you

19:33

asked if it was around in pure

19:35

like, yeah, yeah. So

19:38

Jillian said this most likely since it

19:40

was a common lab chemical with this

19:42

to say, quote, Wormald would eventually learn

19:44

that Marx's workspace was notoriously messy. Bottles

19:46

of lab agents like methanol and ethanol

19:49

were often strewn about alongside a dozen

19:51

or so empty bottles of alcohol. So

19:53

she said, yes. Turns out

19:56

in his lab space specifically, there seemed to

19:58

be a good amount of ethanol. and

20:00

methanol which again next to alcohol

20:02

next alcohol what is he not

20:05

a sound mind and body we don't know is

20:07

he in his lab and he grabs the bottle

20:09

and takes a swig and goes

20:11

on like who knows that would be

20:14

like three or four shots worth if he's doing

20:16

it that way but yeah which

20:18

is completely doable yeah we'll pin

20:21

that as we kind of head towards the theory but

20:23

I mean when he went to the doctor he didn't

20:25

seem like he knew what

20:27

was going on it was like

20:30

doctor I drank a bunch of methanol

20:32

you know right I mean he might have

20:34

just thought again like it tastes like alcohol

20:36

smelled like alcohol yeah for sure but

20:38

in terms of just like you know I

20:41

know that kind of eliminates the whole like always

20:43

an accident I found out it was

20:45

an accident hmm or even

20:48

kind of like lessons my

20:50

thought on being like you

20:52

know trigger word warning here

20:54

but like suicide you know yeah yeah

20:56

then you're going to seek help and

20:58

then you want to get better and that

21:01

point is like doctor I drank this I

21:03

regret it so I don't

21:06

know but yeah that kind of skews like

21:09

some theories a little further away from

21:11

like what I think to be true

21:13

it definitely gives some some better context

21:15

yeah situation now coming back

21:17

to the idea of the laws

21:20

and the authority and who

21:22

owns what and what land is who's all

21:24

that sort of stuff the US did not

21:26

formally acknowledge New Zealand's claim to the part

21:29

of Antarctica where the base was located the

21:31

Roth dependency to clarify the US

21:33

does not deny their claim either they just

21:35

didn't recognize it one of those technicalities where

21:37

they're just like you're no evil

21:39

see no evil yeah but say nothing Marx

21:42

was also an Australian citizen as I mentioned so

21:44

we have three nations in play at at least

21:47

detective senior sergeant grand wormalds of New

21:49

Zealand was investigating the case based on

21:51

orders from Macareia and both the US

21:53

and Australia did not agree with this

21:55

again we're gonna have a lot of

21:58

nation kind of here Since

22:00

there, NSF had concluded earlier that

22:03

Marx had died, again, of natural

22:05

causes. He wanted access to any

22:07

reports that they had on his

22:09

death to try to either confirm or deny the

22:11

NSF's original claim, but the

22:14

NSF said no such report

22:16

existed. 49 other people

22:18

were working on the base at the time. Wormald

22:20

requested information from them, these 49

22:22

people, and only got responses from

22:24

13. Like why?

22:28

Some people just don't want to get involved. Yeah,

22:31

people don't want to get involved. Or maybe they

22:33

just don't know anything. Don't know stuff, don't want

22:35

to pick sides. Yeah. Many of

22:37

Marx's belongings had already been thrown out months

22:39

earlier, so that prevented those from being used

22:41

as evidence. They're like, alright, well, he's passed

22:43

away, it's natural causes, we need this space

22:45

back, it's limited spaces here, chuck

22:47

it out. Yeah, I guess it was

22:49

confirmed to be natural causes. And it's

22:52

like, alright, it's not my

22:54

job to, it's all figured out. Yeah, I mean,

22:56

there is an ongoing investigation, I guess, or they're

22:58

waiting for an autopsy, but I guess a lot

23:00

of people are just going like, I mean, it

23:02

sucks, but we gotta move on. They said natural

23:04

causes, so let's just believe it. I don't know.

23:07

So Wormald, as he's investigating, believes foul

23:09

play could not be ruled out. He

23:11

knows the NSF said natural causes, but

23:13

he's like, he's feeling something. There

23:15

might be foul play in the air. He told Men's Journal

23:17

in 2017 this, Common

23:20

Sense told us there were only four

23:22

possibilities as to how Rodney came to

23:24

ingest the methanol. One, that he drank

23:26

it willingly and knowingly with the intention

23:28

of getting a high. Two, that he

23:30

took it to end his own life.

23:33

Three, that he took it accidentally. And finally,

23:35

that someone had spiked his drink, possibly as

23:37

a prank, or even knowing that it would

23:40

either make him very ill or kill him.

23:43

There is still no formal verdict on Wormald's

23:46

investigation, and his full 50-page report was released

23:48

in 2016. Yeah,

24:00

I guess he couldn't make a claim, but he's like listen

24:02

I investigators So I mean these are the these are

24:04

the angles we're gonna kind of assess this from yeah I

24:07

mean it also just seems like we're so cool. That's

24:09

just every angle Right

24:11

it's like well listen here. I've been investigating

24:13

this for years and the answer is either

24:15

yes. No or maybe But

24:23

yeah, we're gonna assess each of those

24:25

angles and What

24:27

lies in the camp of each of those

24:29

angles what supports that particular claim and what

24:32

maybe the wrinkles see like Like

24:34

essentially right there's just gonna be we have a

24:36

bag of weight off to the side There's all

24:38

these different scales and each scale represents the different

24:41

theory. We're just gonna I just want to see

24:43

where the weight goes Yeah, yeah This

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you get your podcasts. So

28:52

like I said, we're going to be living in the

28:54

theories now. There's a good amount of meat on these

28:56

bones here to

28:58

get into and assess. So

29:01

let's start with one of the earlier theories,

29:03

that of suicide. So one early

29:06

theory after the autopsy was that Marx knowingly

29:08

drank methanol to end his own life. The

29:10

long harsh night in Antarctica can lead to

29:13

mental health troubles. The endless

29:15

days and nights can also affect your

29:17

circadian rhythm causing bad sleep cycles which

29:19

can contribute again to mental illness. Having

29:22

such remote and isolated areas away from family

29:24

can also contribute to this. So there are

29:27

a long list of

29:29

factors that could lead to somebody being

29:31

of a wrong mind or

29:33

body. So Marx had

29:35

lived in Antarctica before. He could have been familiar

29:38

with these conditions and he was kind of in

29:40

the midst of this current stay. He

29:42

was from November of 99 to November of 2000 was

29:45

kind of going to be his stay and this all

29:47

went down in May. So he's about

29:49

halfway through this leap. But

29:52

suffice to say he's also at the end of

29:54

this six month run of night. Yeah,

29:57

the maximum amount. Oh,

29:59

this one. Now it. Is

30:02

for you. The. Next. Now.

30:04

Would you if you had to spend

30:06

the entire month? Would. You rather

30:09

be in. A low base camp

30:11

In an article. A Space

30:13

Shuttle Space. Oh God for

30:15

a summary. Oh. To

30:19

go and already get us your yeah and

30:21

I'll claustrophobia hour or an underwater know. I've

30:23

been working too hard on his muscles lately.

30:25

I don't want the out to sea of

30:28

Spain. I was. A

30:30

we had of a colleague is showing his muscles

30:32

in the window. Right now he is right up

30:34

to see what's in the wind or to the

30:36

by parker Thirty team. Yeah yeah Shaun as making

30:38

sure that Ranger disdain strong right and brought us

30:41

back to earth is what he didn't. Like

30:43

and then them. You know, bone density, radiation

30:45

and all that like face would be fun.

30:47

A murder is you know like a stretch

30:49

my legs a little bit more than the

30:52

monsieur floating around would be fun known some

30:54

marine is just no go. yeah I mean

30:56

submarine his foster I'll be I'll roll specific,

30:58

you're at least some sort of like soccer

31:01

war espionage coming up and down from space

31:03

has a lot of danger To add some

31:05

the i was in Oregon or ticket in

31:07

a very early insulated room for Antarctica. pick

31:10

up a video gave a you have like

31:12

a hours or the gameboy and I are

31:14

you know it's can be laughing about. Learn

31:16

to play chess against. The computer yeah

31:18

it's like a thing yes no or

31:21

task force at read web poverty difference

31:23

I wouldn't in Antarctica yes Yana to

31:25

well yeah rock Now I just so

31:27

bench press and and and co worker

31:29

that I think space would be the

31:32

best experience though yes I think that

31:34

would be the great six modestly though

31:36

like if I really think about it

31:38

and take one I'd probably would go

31:40

space I would want amazing race works

31:43

because that but that is so unique

31:45

and so magical like for the human.

31:47

Mind to see the planet like that?

31:50

I think. He will be really

31:52

very few people to be awesome would have died

31:54

so they'll be truly awesome here. Now.

31:56

As we're going to talking about

31:58

all these factors with Antarctica that

32:00

go to kind of impact the

32:02

mind of somebody who's there. It

32:04

is worth saying that one of

32:06

Romney's colleagues from New Zealand told

32:08

The New Zealand Herald this. Quote:

32:11

Ronnie liked it so much you want to

32:13

go back again. In fact, run he had

32:15

a fiance, a successful career, he had no

32:17

major debts, so lot of people were wondering

32:20

okay, what might be his motivation. That being

32:22

said, at the same time, you know he

32:24

had lived there now at this point twice

32:26

and so despite everything kind of maybe going

32:28

your way or feeling nice and swimmingly from

32:31

an outside perspective, you've never really know what's

32:33

going on inside someone's head and it could

32:35

still eventually even like I love Antarctica. At

32:37

least on that one trip it could still

32:39

get he because these. Reasons here: In

32:42

over just seemed less likely. Or

32:44

yeah, You can never again

32:46

to do beats fully about more. Never

32:48

know when someone's going through, you can

32:51

never know what's in someone's mind. It

32:53

it's It's not safe to just make

32:55

assumptions about loved ones and some earnings

32:57

think seems fine. That's not how depressing

32:59

works. Now when Marxist

33:01

symptoms started, you seem shocked and confused

33:04

h that these were surprises to him.

33:06

And so that does kind of offer

33:08

a wrinkle in the idea that this

33:10

was a planned self inflicted event. The

33:12

At as a larger earlier or as

33:14

I get seem so surprised at Ago.

33:17

Yeah, yeah and you could have mentioned

33:19

this to but if you change his

33:21

mind after Symptoms has started, he probably

33:23

would have said something to Dr. Thompson.

33:25

But obviously we can guarantee that you

33:28

never know what was thinking, of what

33:30

they decide. To. Do, but it does seem

33:32

to be intuitive. Them now visiting

33:34

the doctor multiple times with shock and confusion

33:36

does seem. Like again a surprising

33:39

like the a surprising event to him

33:41

and that he did not intend to

33:43

die in this type of way. The

33:45

methanol poisoning put of effect is thought

33:47

processes as well as his memory. So.

33:51

Again, as a lotta wrinkles on

33:53

wrinkles here and it's why it's

33:55

such an open case. Interesting course

33:57

of course when even sit there

33:59

any go. Very late in

34:01

him if it was suicide. And.

34:04

Or an accent or enough was an accident

34:06

or you want to go baggaley dead we

34:08

like doctor does happen but. Of

34:10

course, a small chance memory loss. Oh yeah.

34:12

like ah, absolutely this. Why? these are mysteries?

34:15

Yeah, And this leads us kind of

34:17

to the next major theory that many have

34:19

theorized that it was simply an accident and

34:21

year we were talking about this and I

34:24

ask Julian earlier kind of silently Off

34:26

to the sides, we were talking about accidentally

34:28

ingesting the methanol because we had beakers on

34:30

the town Earth. He was known to have

34:32

drunk alcohol for various reasons and so

34:34

I'm thinking of, this is an accident. How

34:37

long does it take to set in? Because

34:39

let's say he accidently. Invited thinking it's

34:41

some sort of other alcohol. then he

34:43

goes or eight days over time to

34:46

walk back my understanding Again, I'm not

34:48

a chemist or a scientists. But

34:50

I. Always thought it was the it

34:52

would take a little longer for methanol the

34:54

set in and it does, but there's a

34:57

window of time anywhere between one and seventy

34:59

two hours before methanol really starts to manifest

35:01

symptom in you. For your

35:03

think though, Great Lakes. If.

35:06

I had. All these things

35:08

happen Really isn't a good doctor. Doctor

35:11

can explain it out. I would say

35:13

retrace your steps. Or doctor I

35:15

was working with these chemicals. Or.

35:17

I was drinking alcohol next to open

35:20

containers of these chemical our leader eat

35:22

or everything at the White Theory My

35:24

doctor and we don't know that this

35:26

didn't happen but the doctors had asked

35:29

to read. have you had anything recently

35:31

that you don't normally have? Did you

35:33

have alcohol and dystonic? I mean of

35:35

as you know I've I'm vomiting blood

35:38

doctor doesn't know. I'm telling them everything

35:40

away. Doctor my my this morning was

35:42

slightly darker brown than it usually is.

35:44

Naomi like just ate, it was me

35:46

on. race or i just try to figure

35:49

out any female to spike some type of

35:51

train of thought the fall right i don't

35:53

to beat the doctor as like dismissive in

35:55

any way all you know like that they

35:57

had an inclination and then sent a business

36:00

on the doctor and more on him

36:02

just be like, these were the chemicals

36:04

that were at my disposal during the

36:06

last couple of days. Right.

36:09

Yeah. But I'm just trying to

36:11

say too, there's a lot of nuance that I'm sure

36:13

was not reported within those conversations. But suffice to say,

36:15

if this was an accident, the theory goes on to

36:17

say that maybe Marx was making some

36:19

sort of homemade alcohol and drank it

36:22

without realizing it wasn't right. This

36:24

is something I actually recently learned. People go to classes

36:26

to learn how to make vodka, gin, and all these

36:28

other things. My fiance and I, with a

36:30

couple of friends of ours, decided to make some gin. And

36:33

it was like you can kind of imbibe it with whatever

36:35

flavors you want. So we were kind of experimenting here. But

36:38

one thing I learned in that process is

36:40

that some of the first stuff that gets

36:42

distilled out as you're trying to make the

36:44

alcohol and make the gin is ethanol. Like

36:46

the first kind of few layers

36:48

of it, like you have to just pour out the sink.

36:51

Because if you've ever heard tales of

36:53

people having moonshine and going blind, that's

36:55

because they don't kick off the ethanol

36:58

layer. You have to dump off.

37:00

And so if you drink that, it can attack

37:02

your eyes and you will go blind. Oh my

37:04

goodness. And so, you know, a little anecdotal experience

37:06

to say that if he's trying to make something

37:08

and he didn't know that. I mean, it sounds

37:10

like a funny experience also. I can just buy

37:12

the alcohol. That's true. But

37:15

he's an Antarctica. Maybe he's got some

37:17

spuds and he's like, I want

37:19

to make some of that cool potato vodka. Yeah,

37:21

that's true. You got nothing, you know, you go

37:23

by your day and there's really nothing else to

37:26

do. Yeah. So with all that

37:28

to say, methanol and ethanol are both used to make

37:30

homemade alcohol. Making homemade alcohol is

37:32

reportedly a common hobby of scientists and

37:34

researchers in the Antarctic, probably

37:36

because of the lack of accessibility. So

37:38

we're kind of saying. But since methanol

37:40

smells and tastes similar to alcohol and

37:43

it's colorless, Marx would not maybe have

37:45

known that he was consuming too much

37:47

of this byproduct as opposed to the

37:49

target product being alcohol. There's a

37:51

slight difference between the smell and the taste of methanol

37:53

and alcohol. I don't want to say it's like identical,

37:55

but it's open to theory that maybe Marx didn't know

37:57

the exact difference. It's more subtle than you.

38:00

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't know but

38:02

I can know feel like

38:04

you mentioned that to the doctor. It's making

38:06

my own alcohol. Sure Days ago.

38:08

I was drinking my own stuff. Yeah, and that's

38:10

my first batch I don't like

38:13

that's one of the leading the

38:15

things you'd lead off with. Yeah It's

38:17

also worth knowing that colleagues of Marx had said

38:19

that he was a very smart person. He was

38:21

very careful He was very experienced as a researcher.

38:23

We're not just talking like a regular guy He's

38:27

very studied right? He's very smart and this is

38:29

kind of why he's down there And so it

38:31

wouldn't make a lot of sense for him on

38:33

one hand maybe to choose this as a

38:35

self-harm method because it would Be an incredibly

38:38

painful way to go Unfortunately, and then on

38:40

the other hand It seems like if

38:42

this was a hobby that he had taken on that

38:44

he would have known the ins and outs of it

38:46

and been Very very careful about it. I mean,

38:48

I'll be honest that does make a good

38:50

point though, right? What if you were

38:53

what if you were inebriated while making it Come

38:56

on responsible of all hell, right? Accidents

39:00

do be happening. I will say though like

39:02

that's a good point too. Like if he's

39:05

You know, this is someone that's just an intelligent

39:08

person Right, they're deciding to

39:10

take their own life. That's They

39:13

would be knowledgeable in this right? Yeah, they would

39:15

know or at least be That

39:17

kind of person right there's cerebral enough to

39:20

be like but to look at it And

39:22

like I said to look at it a cerebral

39:25

way and then try and figure out like or

39:27

at least figure out The

39:29

least harmful way and then also realize

39:31

that this is a harmful like very

39:33

right away Yeah, and I

39:35

mean again, we're going back now to the other theory,

39:37

but it's the surprise of it all and yeah And

39:39

this this theory also has its wrinkles as well, you

39:42

know because multiple bottles of alcohol were found in

39:44

his room And so now it's supposition, right? We're

39:46

all kind of as we are

39:48

attempting to theorize or I guess we're dissecting the theories

39:50

of others as people are theorizing We're

39:53

trying to fill in gaps with assumptions. Yeah

39:55

and all that and so like okay

39:57

sure maybe he did this and it was an accident but

39:59

also like Why would he have made stuff because he has his

40:01

own alcohol in his room? Oh, well, you

40:03

know maybe because he wanted to have a hobby

40:06

and he wanted to try something different all viable

40:08

But all just is like up in the

40:11

air as anything else, you know, it's

40:13

a really tough one So suffice to

40:15

say this idea of an accident is not

40:17

impossible But perhaps

40:20

unlikely some have also tried

40:22

to make homemade alcohol and accidentally used methanol

40:25

on the base in the past So

40:27

this isn't like unheard of yeah again

40:29

common practice alternatively, the methanol

40:31

may have been mislabeled as something

40:33

else whether maliciously or Accidentally,

40:36

and it could have easily been labeled

40:38

as ethanol, which is safe for consumption

40:40

Which ethanol has its own

40:42

entire history, but it is used to

40:44

make alcohol and bread Both chemicals are

40:46

very common in labs Which of course

40:48

everybody here would have access to which

40:51

leads us to the next theory because

40:53

many people believe that Rodney Marx was murdered

40:55

Or that foul play of some kind was

40:57

involved in his death Someone could

40:59

have purposefully added methanol to something Marx

41:01

was drinking symptoms of methanol poisoning can

41:03

take between 1 to 72 hours To

41:07

set in there's a huge gap of time where

41:09

this could have left it open to somebody Interfacing

41:12

with him and having this happen my

41:14

gut instinct says that if it

41:16

was on his way back from the lab it

41:19

might have aired on the shorter side

41:21

the quicker side of that 72-hour

41:23

window because maybe it happened while he was in

41:26

the lab while there's easy accessibility to methanol No

41:28

matter what it was in and then on his

41:30

way back That's when it's metabolizing because that's what

41:32

it is based on how quickly it gets metabolized

41:35

I mean, I'm interested to see if there's any

41:37

motive that comes into play with this. You know,

41:39

I mean, yeah No, it really

41:41

does stuff like that for No reason

41:43

I mean it happens obviously more often than you

41:45

think. but like you would think that the you

41:47

know base like this or Each other, there'd be

41:49

some reason a hundred percent less like that someone

41:52

just like I just like doing this Oh, you

41:54

know what? I Want a change of pace today.

41:56

Yeah, no, that and that's and that's a thing.

41:58

And to be totally candid on that, We

42:00

don't know if Marks had any enemies

42:02

on base. There's no one with a

42:04

real obvious motives on base to have

42:06

done something so heinous. And if it's

42:09

true that this is what happened to

42:11

Marks, his death would be the first

42:13

recorded murder in Antarctica. First confirmed death

42:15

if this theory which way's yeah. I'm

42:17

sure like most deaths. They're. Just

42:19

like. Environmental. Iranian

42:22

or just like natural causes. Yeah so

42:24

why we can't think of any enemies

42:26

or anybody that may have direct mode

42:28

as the only things we can actually

42:30

assess on this front arcs. What are

42:32

the repercussions? What come with the as

42:34

it were sick pros and cons of

42:37

someone like this passing away what could

42:39

or could possibly happen right? Well the

42:41

main thing that would happen is that

42:43

Astro the project would would be down

42:45

because he was the only person there

42:47

that knew how to operate the telescope.

42:49

Does anyone benefit from that? Is anyone

42:52

lose from that? Those are the questions

42:54

that are openly worth asking to see

42:56

if there is a motive floating around.

42:58

Yeah I mean again kind of rhetorical

43:00

questions, but really the kind of angle

43:02

that you have to assess is one

43:04

is to believe that there is murder

43:06

of foul play involved. Just

43:09

or mean like originally from a have

43:11

the Station go down I guess the

43:13

research take out hiatus I don't know.

43:16

Well yeah seems. They. Learned own

43:18

Australia to know about. The Star:

43:20

Serious writers seem so random.

43:22

Yeah, it's interesting. You

43:24

know I mean this does combined then this

43:27

theory in the last one but it is

43:29

possible that someone murdered marks if not entirely

43:31

by accident is kind of combines the to

43:33

by saying that maybe for some reason. Methanol

43:36

got. Mixed. In with something

43:38

like alcohol or or something. Meant.

43:41

To be in vibes and

43:43

marxists was the unwitting and

43:45

unexpected. Victim of that accident.

43:48

So again, Now. Take the accident

43:50

out of his hands and put into somebody elses

43:52

hands and and he descends have been the victim

43:54

or is no way of knowing. since six months

43:56

had passed before his autopsy and his forty nine

43:58

other colleagues have all by that. Point moved

44:00

back across the globe. Oh.

44:03

Tail. Yeah. So. Yeah I

44:05

mean even then like if you are I suspect there

44:07

are scattered. Yeah. Makes a

44:10

case like this really hard to Canada's chase

44:12

down when the autopsy super delayed. Thirteen out

44:14

of forty nine are willing to say something

44:16

or have something to say and then yeah,

44:18

they move back across the world as. A

44:21

man? I mean solving cases, Are

44:24

it is difficult already? as is like

44:26

this is just all cars are stacked

44:28

against you. Isn't sonos? Move

44:31

on to one of the

44:33

meteor theories that. This might

44:35

have been. Some. Level of cover up.

44:37

Or. That what happened here and it's

44:40

truth was covered up with talk About

44:42

That. So while the Us in New

44:44

Zealand had separate investigations, when the Us

44:46

Department of Justice reached out to the

44:49

National Science Foundation and Raytheon Polar Services,

44:51

neither entity provided the Department of Justice

44:53

with information. World. The New

44:56

Zealand Police officer mentioned earlier theorizes

44:58

that they may have been withholding

45:00

information, perhaps maliciously. World claimed that

45:02

the Nss told him no reports

45:04

of their internal investigation exist, and

45:06

according to Men's Journal, he was

45:08

quote drip fed information for years.

45:10

He also believes that the reason

45:13

why so few researchers responded to

45:15

his questioning. For that, they were

45:17

worried about losing their jobs. So

45:19

my take is that if you

45:21

don't have anything to say, don't

45:23

clog up the works. With miscellaneous

45:25

I know know. But here's what I

45:27

think, right? But he's the he's got

45:30

a valid point. Forty nine folks out

45:32

there, very unique experiences to be out

45:34

there. Very cool opportunities for professional scientists

45:36

and researchers. Maybe they want to ruin

45:39

that. Maybe they want the opportunity to

45:41

continue to do that again or at

45:43

least not be black balled and their

45:45

own industry. But perhaps to these are

45:48

national departments. These are national entities what

45:50

they're working with, not just like a

45:52

company right now. some and assess employees

45:54

did. Reach out to wormholes

45:56

and criticize Doctor Thompson's care.

45:59

William Silva, a doctor another

46:01

antarctic research station reviewed Thompson's

46:03

notes. So. Thompson had an Actor

46:05

Camp blood analyzer which would have detected

46:07

the methanol and marks his blood. Thompson's

46:10

actor Can was off at the time

46:12

of Marks death and would is taken

46:14

about eight to ten hours to turn

46:16

back on because it's internal battery was

46:18

dead. That. Is to say unless he had

46:20

left the machine on twenty four seven than it would

46:22

have been self sufficient I suppose. Keep itself charged. But

46:25

I digress. He previously reported this to

46:27

Raytheon. And. It's unknown if they

46:29

responded. Thompson claimed he was too busy

46:31

with Marks to use the machine and

46:33

then it was difficult to use, but

46:35

Silver claimed the opposite. He suggested that

46:37

Thompson read the manual or contact the

46:39

manufacturer if it was so difficult to

46:41

operate. Basically have one doctor saying to

46:43

another. listen, I know this is hindsight,

46:46

but you have a device that could

46:48

diagnose rapidly. What was going on inside

46:50

Martin body for picked up on that

46:52

high level of methanol in his blood

46:54

and maybe done something about it. but

46:56

instead you left this device dead in.

46:58

Charge it often, keep it operating and then

47:00

you claimed Well, I was either too busy

47:02

but also it's it's not, it's difficult to

47:04

use and he's like, well, if it's so

47:06

difficult which is not he says then learn

47:09

it. Yeah, it's your job at your job.

47:11

So this is a very fascinating point. A

47:13

Doctor Silver brings up. Again,

47:17

it is hindsight. It is guided

47:19

by hindsight. Oh it's one hundred

47:21

percent for light. That is your

47:23

job and you have all this

47:25

equipment fight like you're not in

47:27

a city You how you're not

47:29

even in like. A danced

47:31

how. How many

47:33

people on a daily basis are

47:35

coming to you and filling your

47:38

schedule? I'm is this assumption of

47:40

filling a rave like your sole

47:42

purpose is to attend to the

47:44

physical needs. Other individuals on

47:47

this base camp. How.

47:50

much of retards been taking

47:52

up by their visits the

47:55

requests iran's like you got

47:57

time to learn this machine

48:00

You got time to at least keep the

48:02

damn thing charged. Like there's

48:04

no excuse for that. There's no issues to have it charged.

48:07

Like if I don't know how to operate something

48:09

in our medical professional, the thing's still going to

48:12

be charged. I'm still going to make

48:14

sure all the tools are

48:16

functional. It happens

48:18

sometimes where a doctor goes, I'm pretty certain

48:20

this is it. I'm not going to

48:22

bother, you know, running your blood and doing all this

48:24

stuff. Cause I think I got you figured out. But

48:27

that's when, you know, our instinct started

48:29

kicking in and going like he's coming

48:31

back two more times after that moment.

48:33

Maybe it is worth expanding the search.

48:35

The vomiting of blood, man. Like how,

48:38

it's a bit of a red flag. I just don't

48:40

know. But is that just, you know, it's like, this

48:43

is something that occurs at the hospital and doctors are

48:45

just like, Oh no, it's actually, I don't

48:47

know. Is it not as big of a deal as I

48:50

think it is? Right. Oh, another one of these again. All

48:52

right. Like, Oh, that's just fine. You can take some of

48:54

this and call me in the morning. I just consumed too

48:56

many hot dogs. It happened. It's a band aid, you know?

48:58

Yeah. Right. I mean, again, I know

49:00

nothing. Right. Exactly. I, it could, it could be

49:02

mundane. It could be, I don't know. It seems

49:04

alarmist to me, but we're not talking. Yeah. So

49:07

Dr. Silva is saying that if Thompson had

49:09

realized Marx was suffering from methanol poisoning, he

49:11

could have easily treated him. There are two

49:14

major ways that you treat methanol poisoning. One

49:17

is to give, I'm going

49:19

to struggle with the pronunciation of this one.

49:21

So map is all and the other is

49:23

ironically to give them ethanol, which was widely

49:25

available on this base. The reason you would

49:27

give either of these two items is because

49:30

it would then prevent the metabolite formate

49:33

from forming. Basically, it would stop

49:35

methanol from turning into its

49:37

toxic byproduct. And it's that toxic byproduct that

49:39

then would harm you. Right. So it basically

49:42

stopped the process in its tracks. You wouldn't

49:44

have a great time. Yeah. But you could

49:46

at least, you know, no possibly save your

49:48

life. Yeah. Cause it's already in the blood

49:50

system. You're, you're past the pump, the stomach

49:53

situation. But suffice to say, Dr.

49:55

Silva is saying that if he had known about

49:57

this and if he had used this equipment, he

49:59

could have. at least treated him and perhaps saved

50:01

his life. After that, Thompson never

50:04

really responded to these criticisms from Silva and

50:06

was actually not charged with medical negligence because

50:08

there's nothing really to go off of. But

50:11

interestingly, he was actually evacuated from

50:13

Antarctica later that very same year

50:15

after a fall in the

50:17

autumn of 2000. That was the same year, right?

50:20

And reportedly, Thompson had since disappeared since

50:22

he could not be reached during the

50:25

later parts of the inquiry, this investigation

50:27

that unfolded. So he fell

50:29

down, had an accident in some way,

50:31

was injured, flown out and then disappeared,

50:33

was unable to be reached, unable to

50:36

be found. And I don't know if that is mysterious

50:38

or if that's sinister,

50:40

but it's something worth

50:43

noting. Yeah, we're just probably just didn't, you

50:45

know, realizing now that I

50:47

could have done something. Right.

50:49

He said, I'm free. I'm off that place. I

50:52

fell. I bumped my

50:54

knee and now I have a protuberance. Yeah.

50:58

Yeah. I don't know. Again, I don't want to come too hard

51:00

after this guy because it's all hindsight for us, but it

51:03

is interesting. Unfortunately, though. Yeah. Harry

51:06

Mahar and NSF health and safety

51:08

coordinator from the Antarctic program told

51:10

Wormald that the NSF did multiple

51:12

internal investigations, including when they tested

51:14

containers marked as methanol or alcohol

51:16

to see if the labels were

51:19

accurate. I love

51:21

this. I love that. Basically going like, all right,

51:23

let's get in there. Let's see if things

51:25

were mislabeled. Let's see if things were mixed

51:27

up. This meant that a report of some

51:29

kind did indeed exist. So it does cast

51:31

some weird shadows on the NSF. Why are

51:33

you saying there's no reports? Why

51:36

aren't you handing over any paperwork if

51:38

somebody under your employee

51:40

is saying that there was at least

51:42

some investigation happening? Wormald

51:44

found out later that the homemade

51:46

alcohol found on base tested negative

51:49

for methanol. So this

51:51

was immediately to outright drink it. Then

51:54

it seems like it, but

51:56

it is weird that this information was withheld and

51:58

then later found in the different direction and

52:00

it was confirmed that it did exist it could fall

52:02

into the whole like US versus Australia versus New Zealand

52:05

situation I don't know and I'm just like no no

52:07

no I'm not gonna give you this information all

52:09

right then I guess we won't figure out what happened

52:11

here right right then I'm gonna stick my foot down

52:13

it's like the squid game the challenge like yeah I

52:16

don't want the umbrella door okay I guess we're all

52:18

going home then I thought I thought

52:20

God frustrating happened like three times

52:23

sorry for spoilers anybody so

52:28

coming back to my heart he noticed

52:30

that wormalds report included a

52:32

unique bottle of liquor in Mark's room with

52:35

a non English label that was then thrown away

52:37

it was discovered in the trash can I guess

52:39

colleagues believed that mark obtained the bottle and may

52:41

have been spiked with methanol

52:44

to increase the potency cases

52:46

like this have been reported all over the world so

52:49

basically saying that you know he

52:51

had a strange bottle of alcohol had

52:53

been thrown away because it had been consumed but

52:56

maybe to make it stronger he like

52:58

threw in a little bit of this and that just that's

53:01

an accident and and then it's

53:03

like old doc yeah I spike

53:06

my alcohol methanol well

53:08

maybe he's embarrassed maybe he doesn't want to talk

53:11

about that maybe he doesn't want to see little

53:13

spewing blood you can't write I know you gotta

53:15

tell your doctors these things because it is for

53:17

your own benefit but I'm just trying to say

53:19

like who wants to who wants to admit like

53:22

hey I might have a problem or hey I

53:24

might have been chasing I mean I would make

53:26

that to a doctor yeah I mean you know

53:28

I mean there's a patient confidentiality involved there that's

53:30

true that's not like talking like a

53:33

podcast right giving out

53:35

all my information you're not tweeting it or something yeah

53:37

exactly yeah I mean that's

53:39

an interesting angle because what you

53:42

know fiance you said waiting

53:44

at home yes got

53:46

me it's

53:48

hard it's hard to think

53:50

that like embarrassment connects to

53:52

like the reason why

53:54

you know I mean like yeah I

53:57

think you know if that is what happened And

54:00

again, it comes back to the accident theory for me. Maybe

54:03

he was like, you know what, I could use a

54:05

little extra strength on this. I know scientifically I can

54:07

add this amount and it will be safe. Maybe

54:09

you then limit how much you could have at a time.

54:11

So you're like, well, if I can only have two, two,

54:13

I don't know, I'll make it up two shocks. Then

54:16

I want it to hit me a certain level. So I'll

54:18

add a little this and that. But then when you're in

54:20

that stupor, you're, you know, your decision making is a little

54:23

slippery, a little loosed up. And then you're like, well, you know,

54:25

I'll have a little bit more than a little bit more. And

54:27

then you forgot the whole time that you had put in methanol

54:29

and then it builds up in your system. And

54:32

again, accident comes to mind most prominently

54:34

for me. Yeah, but that just to

54:36

me is someone that would go to the doctor.

54:38

Like this is what happened. Yeah. You

54:41

know, especially when you have something like there's a reason

54:43

to live, right? It's

54:45

all assumptions. Sure. Again. Yep.

54:48

But like on an ordinary basis, this, that, that just

54:51

the typical path there would be,

54:53

I messed up. I got a doctor.

54:55

Help me on method up. This is how I

54:57

messed up. Yeah. Help me undo

55:00

this. Yeah. I have a fiance with

55:02

you. Right. Now, remember, we're talking about

55:04

a cover up. So while I want to subscribe this

55:06

to an accident, let's put this through the lens of

55:08

perhaps a cover up. So if

55:10

something were to be mislabeled and or

55:12

the medical services or other aspects of

55:14

the base were negligent, then

55:16

it would make sense. It would probably

55:19

be in their best interest cynically that

55:21

the NSF or even Raytheon would

55:23

not want that information getting out and making

55:25

the research look bad, looking like that

55:28

something was going on under their purview that they

55:30

just weren't aware of or anything like that. Regardless

55:33

of how exactly Marx came to consume all

55:35

of this methanol, it doesn't really matter because

55:37

the investigation itself was so disorganized due to

55:39

the unclear laws of the South Pole that

55:42

I think it is the complications therein that

55:44

make it hard to truly figure out what

55:46

the origin of it all. Right.

55:49

Regardless of again, how he came to do it. The

55:51

fact is he did in

55:53

some way and we'll never know because

55:56

of the rigmarole of international

55:58

politics or. I don't

56:00

know it feels so silly to me I'm with

56:02

you on that. I mean maybe you don't want

56:04

to set weird precedents for other things down the

56:06

future line that you can't plan for but like

56:08

come on let's figure this out together and move

56:10

on we're all allies right. Now the

56:12

coroner did release his own report in 2008 and

56:15

said quote I respectively disagree that

56:17

accidental poisoning and even foul play can

56:20

be adequately disregarded without a full and

56:22

proper investigation and he did advocate for

56:24

clear rules for crimes committed in Antarctica

56:27

and I think that this is that's

56:30

the precedent that should have been set from an unfortunate case like

56:32

this. Yeah. You know

56:34

let's figure out the actual protocol for

56:36

a yes rare instance of true crime

56:39

moment in the Antarctic but let's

56:41

at least come up with a procedure moving

56:43

forward so this can never happen again. In

56:46

closing there is a mountain in the Worcester

56:48

mountain range which is a mountain range in

56:50

the 2600 meter realm it's a very tall

56:52

mountain range and it was actually named after

56:54

Rodney Marks this mountain Mount Marks.

56:57

Marks his parents appreciated the efforts of the

56:59

New Zealand investigation but they believe they will

57:01

never get the answers as to exactly how

57:04

their son died. That is

57:06

the death of Rodney Marks. A

57:08

lot of theories a lot of angles and again a lot of

57:10

supposition a lot of trying to fill in in the gaps trying

57:12

to figure out what went on but I

57:14

think at the end of the day something

57:16

happened he consumed something he shouldn't have it

57:18

ended up in his system and

57:21

because of these weird lack of

57:23

rules and guidelines we'll just never

57:25

be able to pinpoint what happened.

57:27

Yeah I don't think it was a conscious decision

57:30

I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah I just I don't know

57:32

I think for me I can like X that out

57:35

of the equation. What a

57:37

what a mystery. Just

57:39

a simple I mean not

57:42

a simple but just like it seems

57:44

straightforward. It seems very straightforward. But the

57:46

answer is just not right. Yeah.

57:49

Yeah. That's one of the painful parts

57:52

about doing a podcast like this. Yeah.

57:54

You would hope so desperately that despite

57:56

the unfortunate results of what happened to

57:58

Rodney Marks that. You could

58:00

at least go okay. It's straightforward. Let's figure this

58:03

out right. We're at least testing these beakers seeing

58:05

if there's cross-examination Okay, there isn't cool

58:07

a little bit of a lane But

58:09

again, that's why we're talking about

58:12

it is one of those cold cases that

58:14

just like left open Frustratingly and we're gonna

58:16

analyze The possibilities

58:18

what what episode is this now for Red Web

58:21

171 171? Mm-hmm. I feel like if someone Came

58:26

to us with a time machine and we're like,

58:28

all right You can go here's the time machine

58:30

go back in time like where you like you

58:32

where you gonna go Like what are you gonna

58:34

start my bro? I got 171 places ago To

58:43

be the fly on the snowflake to figure out

58:45

what exactly happened right one Oh my

58:47

god, you know what like that's that would be really interesting

58:49

I've thought about that multiple times just in the back of

58:52

my head like to just know Maybe

58:54

even if the caveat is I can't share but I can go

58:56

didn't in an Set I know Yeah, but

58:59

like oh man just to satisfy

59:01

that For

59:03

myself, yeah, and

59:05

then 172 would be the

59:08

Marvel Boardroom All

59:11

right, right 173 X-gene. Where is it at? Are

59:17

we waking up my power Yeah,

59:20

yeah, I don't know. Is there

59:22

is there a case? We're like, what is it?

59:24

What if it turned out like you're like, okay

59:26

cool mundane mundane expected strange but

59:28

expected Etc. Etc. You're going through

59:31

all the cases then you get to like 56 and you're

59:33

like, wait a minute alien And then it goes back to

59:35

like they did it accident somebody went missing You know like

59:37

all that just like back to normal, but then suddenly you

59:39

have like an alien pop up I

59:41

feel like I really have like

59:44

say it like, you know, I mean the three of us

59:46

myself Trevor Nick we

59:49

have the ability to go back in time to visit

59:51

all these mysteries I feel like we'd have to

59:53

before we step on to the ship by someone

59:55

would have to be like guys Yeah,

59:58

there's a good chance one of

1:00:00

these is an alien, right? One of these is

1:00:02

actually paranormal or a demon or you know what

1:00:04

I mean? Like there's a

1:00:07

fair chance that like it is

1:00:09

what it is. It

1:00:11

is a paranormal thing. And

1:00:13

so, yeah, we'd have

1:00:15

to brace ourselves for what we're getting into. I feel

1:00:17

like it would be life-changing in

1:00:19

terms of like how you see the

1:00:22

world, perceive the world. It

1:00:24

wouldn't just be, oh, that's

1:00:26

how it happened. I feel like it'd

1:00:28

be a real mission to Mars situation. I think that's

1:00:30

the movie where I'm like, I'm with

1:00:32

you guys. We're all sobered astronauts

1:00:34

going in with this mission, figuring out

1:00:37

what happened in the past. But

1:00:39

as soon as aliens crop up, I salute and I go,

1:00:41

I'm going with them. Oh really? And

1:00:43

I shoot off and you're like, what a

1:00:45

twist. Anyway, let's keep time traveling. And

1:00:49

I'm living with the beings from the great beyond.

1:00:52

I'm mad. And

1:00:54

then they just rip me apart and they're like, let's figure out how this

1:00:56

thing works. And

1:00:58

the thing is, I don't know how

1:01:00

we, Nick and I come back and

1:01:02

explain to your partner, look,

1:01:07

he went off with some aliens. Listen,

1:01:11

they gotta have a time travel situation and it's a

1:01:13

sort of immortality gun, right? Like I go, cool, I'm

1:01:15

good. Like

1:01:18

he's with some aliens right now. I don't know what else

1:01:20

to say. And then I time travel back in from a

1:01:22

thousand years into the future, but I look the exact same

1:01:24

the next day and I go, no, no, no, he's lying.

1:01:27

And I have all this advanced knowledge and I can, oh,

1:01:30

creepy, run logical. We do

1:01:32

not need that. I'm going off the deep

1:01:34

end. Right. But we don't

1:01:36

need, yeah, let's scrap that. We

1:01:38

don't need the ability to

1:01:41

mess with that kind of stuff. We just don't.

1:01:43

If we had time travel, I'd have an accidental

1:01:45

Jurassic Park situation. I'd go back, I'd want to

1:01:47

capture that T-Rex in HD 4K and then I'd

1:01:49

probably get cronched. Yeah. You know, I want

1:01:52

to be like, how big the feathers? What are those arms

1:01:54

doing? Yeah,

1:01:56

no, we just human shouldn't be able to do that. I

1:02:01

still maintain we've been time traveling this whole time

1:02:03

from the far future coming back and looking at

1:02:05

ourselves like an actual Living

1:02:07

museum and that's what UFOs are Oh

1:02:09

leave it to us to develop time

1:02:12

travel sophisticated cloaking

1:02:14

techniques and anti gravitational flying mechanisms

1:02:16

that we then crash Yeah,

1:02:19

I mean it ain't gonna be an ancient alien

1:02:22

civilization It's got the brilliance to come here from

1:02:24

God knows where it's gonna be us and

1:02:26

they're looking at us It's like hey you guys want to go back to the

1:02:29

1990s and see all the wacky colors and Nickelodeon

1:02:32

No, I want to go back to Yeah,

1:02:34

I guess like I don't know I want to go to Roswell and look

1:02:36

at sand I don't know what we're

1:02:39

white aliens are going where they're going But

1:02:43

anyway, I'm again I got holiday brain mush task

1:02:45

force Thank you all so much as always we

1:02:47

are again you're in the midst of the new

1:02:49

year. I wish you well I hope

1:02:51

that the new year is amazing to you all but we're

1:02:53

about to go into the holiday season So I'm still a

1:02:56

little sentimental and I just wanted to say thank you all

1:02:58

so much for another amazing year of Red

1:03:00

web and listening to us and being task

1:03:02

force members and being first members. We've watched

1:03:04

our first memberships grow We have a

1:03:06

discord where we do discord events exclusively for you guys

1:03:09

We do live streams every now and then where

1:03:11

we call it field work where we can test

1:03:13

our Ghost hunting prowess our

1:03:15

cryptid hunting prowess and all that sort of stuff

1:03:17

in the safety the confines of a video game

1:03:20

You know our podcast is ad free all

1:03:22

that good stuff just for you because you

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support our show red web pod comm slash

1:03:27

first And if you've been listening for this

1:03:29

long Get prepared there

1:03:31

might be some some little like group

1:03:33

reading projects for you afraid of cooking

1:03:35

something up You know there might be

1:03:37

some Some watch

1:03:40

some some viewing projects viewing projects, you

1:03:42

know, so suffice to say task force

1:03:44

We're cooking up some goodness for you.

1:03:46

Yeah, so a bonus stuff Just

1:03:49

get into all the different entertainment stuff

1:03:51

that just all come to this

1:03:54

on this part Oh, yeah, you

1:03:56

you know a few things right a lot of you have

1:03:58

wanted us to flip the script. We're Fredo takes the

1:04:00

role and then I'm the one reacting. You've

1:04:02

talked to us about this being the movie

1:04:04

podcast about mysteries. All the ingredients you know

1:04:06

and love about Red Web. We're

1:04:08

pulling on them and making something

1:04:10

brand new, mixing that that brain

1:04:13

of Alfredo's. Yeah so good luck and

1:04:16

buckle up. All right everybody task force

1:04:18

thank you so much and Fredo I'll

1:04:20

see you right back here next Monday

1:04:23

for yet another mystery. Yes you will Trevor.

1:04:34

Hey John here from Tales from the Sneaky

1:04:36

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