0:00

WondruPlus subscribers can listen to

0:02

Red Handed early and ad-free. Join

0:04

WondruPlus in the Wondru app or

0:07

on Apple Podcasts. Have

0:09

you got to the other side of 30 and thought, I

0:11

wish I'd taken better care of my skin? Suddenly

0:14

all those days at the beach with

0:16

a rather too little SPF and not

0:18

enough water seem like they might

0:20

have been a bad idea. If

0:22

so, you've probably started looking at

0:25

some serious skincare. That's why

0:27

my friends in the US are hooked

0:29

on Curology. Firstly, it's actually personalized and

0:31

prescribed for your skin. So it's not

0:33

just some guessing game trying to pick

0:35

what works, wasting a bunch of time

0:37

and money and then ending up with

0:39

loads and loads of bottles of something

0:41

that you'll never use. But

0:44

do you know what really stood out

0:46

to them and made me super jealous

0:48

when they told me? All of Curology's

0:50

products have no fragrances or parabens. Nothing

0:52

puts me off skincare like a brand that goes

0:54

on about the smell. It just

0:56

irritates your skin and it is not good for it.

0:59

I do not need my face to smell nice. I

1:01

just want to look bang in. So

1:03

if you want to give it a

1:05

try, visit curology.com/red handed today for a

1:08

special offer. That's curology. curology.com/red

1:10

handed. Offer applies only

1:13

to your first box,

1:15

subject to consultation. New

1:18

subscribers only. Okay,

1:21

I have to talk to you about

1:24

Audible. This is very serious. I use

1:26

it every single day. Audible is an

1:28

all-in-one audio entertainment app. You'll always find

1:30

the best of what you love or

1:32

something new to discover. Keep

1:52

from their entire catalog. New members

1:54

can try Audible The Free for

1:57

thirty days visit audible.com/red handed or

1:59

text right hundred to Five Hundred

2:01

Five hundred. That's. audible.com/red handed or

2:03

text red hand it to Five Hundred

2:05

Five Hundred. Summer.

2:08

Is right around the corner. And. Whether you

2:10

plan on spending it lounging on the

2:12

beach, passing away at festivals, playing sports,

2:14

traveling, or climbing mountains, you have to

2:16

stay hydrated. More than ever, I

2:18

insist. That were liquid. Id has

2:21

you covered. With it easy to

2:23

use delicious essays full of electrolytes,

2:25

essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients.

2:28

The Signs: That formula has three

2:30

times the electrolytes of the leading

2:32

sports drink. Plus out that

2:34

I'm in the nutrients in a

2:36

single stick, it clear why Liquid

2:39

Id is the number one powdered

2:41

hydration banned in America. And they

2:43

have zero sugar, and very importantly,

2:46

zero artificial sweeteners. I don't

2:48

know how it's done, but honestly, it's

2:50

incredible and incredibly delicious and incredibly hydrated.

2:52

I can't stress enough how many times

2:55

Liquid I the has save me on

2:57

long haul flight or sweaty underground train

2:59

journeys in the middle of summer. The

3:01

twenty percent of your first order of

3:04

Liquid are these. When you go to

3:06

liquidib.com a new code red handed a

3:08

check out as twenty percent of your

3:10

first order. When. You shop better

3:12

hydration today. Using promo code

3:15

red handed at Liquid Ivy. Don't.

3:29

And welcome to part Two of your worst nightmare.

3:32

To move this my face. Of

3:36

him. Better.

3:41

Much. Now I can hear.

3:44

More Horrible. Six. There's.

3:51

A bit later on max he made

3:53

me cry oh no Oh my God.

3:55

Okay I'm. preparing myself,

3:58

Prepare. Yourself to. It

4:00

may be quite how much I didn't actually put it

4:03

in the scripts. I could decide if I was gonna

4:05

say oh no I think he will say i think

4:07

I will say it tapers gonna play the game. Last.

4:11

Week we left you with a trip to Libya.

4:13

And this week with age kick off with

4:15

some musical facts. About the children of God. A

4:18

birdie and dancing treat called less off wanted

4:20

year. Reached. Number One in the

4:22

charts in France in nineteen seventy four.

4:25

With. A number called my Love. Is

4:27

Love. And. And

4:30

on the continent they were properly same as

4:32

they even went on. Tourism are on Cd

4:34

and stuff. And. Speaking of

4:36

the personally famous Jeremy Spencer

4:38

guitarist for Fleetwood Mac, Joined

4:41

the Children of God no Way

4:43

and is way off of. In.

4:46

Fact: Fleetwood Mac had to cancel a gig

4:48

at Whiskey Ago go in L A because

4:50

the rest of the ban turned up and

4:53

Jeremy Spencer never showed. And. They

4:55

found him ages later. Sex up with

4:57

the children of got. Any

4:59

further releases he made from his

5:02

solo outfit Jeremy Spencer and the

5:04

Children. No No No No No

5:06

No. We're. Produce whilst he was

5:08

an active member of the Colts. And

5:11

the most popular for some schools, Cool Breeze

5:13

which is still a favorite and now beach

5:15

bars across the world. I

5:17

know what talk about time travel show all the time but

5:19

it is really good. Had Pixie Cameron on. To.

5:22

Grew up in the Children of God and left and now she

5:24

has a book on a documentary series Will Cult Following. And.

5:26

She said she was in Ibiza and

5:28

cool breeze came on and she was

5:31

just like ah somebody might go on.

5:34

Any. Music. Was

5:36

a big deal in the children of God

5:38

and so with sex as we all learn

5:40

together. Very horribly last week. The.

5:43

Second and final part of our theories

5:45

on the children of God. Is.

5:47

The one where we are going to take

5:49

you three The Children of God Miss Famous

5:51

Recruitment text. Flashy. Fishing.

5:54

And the devastating effect it had on

5:56

the people involved. And bless.

5:59

Those who have brought in the world because of it.

6:02

Flirty, Fishing like everything bad as

6:04

it instills and his followers structure.

6:07

Was. Child fast with his inner circle.

6:09

This time it was Karen's at least ten

6:12

to take the lead. Parents

6:14

obvious tricky for me because

6:16

she definitely was indoctrinated by

6:18

Back himself when she was

6:20

super young. She

6:24

also makes my bones feel cold. It's

6:28

hard to completely hate her because she

6:30

was indoctrinated and groomed, etc, etc. etc.

6:32

And we don't know what happened to

6:34

her because she's never spoken about it.

6:37

But. To the fact is the things

6:39

that she did and is from the still

6:41

doing a horrifying. So. It's really

6:43

how I doubt. I'd not. I do know where

6:45

I stand on her. I just feel weird about it. Yeah.

6:48

I think it's tricky because it's

6:50

like with anybody right who goes

6:52

on to commit terrible offenses. As

6:55

an adult, we often do look at

6:57

their childhood somewhere like okay that this

6:59

horrible abuse hit. The. Something awful

7:01

that happened. To. What extent that mitigates

7:03

your choices as an adult? I don't know here is

7:05

different because of illness and who did it to her.

7:08

But. Is still very much in her

7:10

life manipulating. I

7:12

think led more on that he turns up

7:14

beside. Let's what we end up.

7:16

I've also seen that written that she wasn't

7:18

the southeast pixie in the drawer. The.

7:22

So easy. To manipulate Maybe.

7:24

but still. Doesn't. Really

7:26

fucking horrible says. And

7:28

we will probably never really know how south of

7:30

a pixie. She actually is because Clarence

7:33

Abby is still in the Children

7:35

of God right now. Seventy.

7:38

Seven years old. she is. That.

7:40

It was at that like a hobbit. And

7:44

terrorism is actually the head honcho now. Some

7:47

shop. To as well.

7:50

I guess you know better than

7:52

I do that. say she's never

7:54

says anything so it's. Also

7:57

quite sharp for a severe. That's

8:00

true. Yeah, also the children of God

8:02

are now called the Family International. You

8:04

can go on their website. All

8:07

of the information that we have about the

8:09

atrocities that happened inside the children of God

8:11

have come from people like Bexi Cameron who

8:13

have left the fold and published exposés. And

8:16

Karen never has. So it's hard

8:18

to say how much of what we're about to tell you

8:20

next was her idea. When

8:23

Berg and Zabi were living together in London, one

8:26

or both of them had the bright idea

8:28

that recruiting rich people into the children of

8:30

God was going to be

8:32

far more economically viable than soul-searching

8:34

hippies who had already turned their

8:36

backs on the system. I

8:38

mean they're not wrong. No, they're very much not

8:40

wrong. Hanging around outside like, what was that beach

8:43

bar handing out fucking... The light bar. The light cafe.

8:45

Sorry, the light bar is where we were last night. Yeah.

8:48

Handing out peanut butter sandwiches

8:50

to fucking hungry hippies is

8:52

not the most effective business model.

8:55

Again, here you see that entrepreneurial mindset of

8:57

the cult leader. They're like, do you know

8:59

what? We need some rich people. Because if

9:01

you're just going after hippies living outside the

9:03

system, although radical, makes

9:05

it quite difficult to obtain cash money. You

9:08

know, the thing we all need to survive. Yeah, the thing

9:10

that you can buy other things with. Yes.

9:13

The thing that cult leaders desperately crave more

9:15

than almost anything else except maybe

9:18

power and all the

9:20

horrible sex stuff that's coming. So right

9:22

here in London, Karen Zerbe started

9:25

to take ballroom dancing lessons so

9:27

that she could go to the clubs in the

9:30

West End and dance with rich men. Which

9:32

is a plan and a half. I'll give

9:34

it to her. She comes

9:37

up with a laser-focused idea on how she's going

9:39

to make this happen. I mean that's where they

9:41

are and they're dancing and she needs

9:43

to know how to do that. I know. We don't two-step

9:45

in this country. No, we don't. We waltz.

9:50

And whenever Karen Zerbe could, which

9:52

was very often, she would sleep

9:54

with these men. Then she would bring them

9:56

to Berg so he could tell them

9:58

about Jesus. attack.

10:04

Oh what lovely sexing we just did. Can I

10:06

introduce you to my beardy husband who's gonna talk

10:08

to you about Jesus for an hour? Now

10:11

the pair found that men were

10:13

much more amiable to the gospel

10:16

if they'd been fucked first. So

10:18

they, well Karen we should

10:20

say, kept that. And

10:22

a very favourite fish that Zerbe managed to

10:25

land and suck dry of finance. Ew.

10:29

I'm not gonna say it. It

10:32

was someone that Berg started to call

10:34

King Arthur and King

10:36

Arthur would feature in many many Mo

10:38

letters to come as they're like pinnacle

10:40

of what you can get. It just sounds

10:43

like a thing. In many many Mo

10:45

letters. Mo were the letters that he

10:47

wrote. Naturally once Zerbe

10:49

and Berg worked out how effective this policy

10:51

was for recruitment or at least for their

10:53

checkbook they decided to tell the rest of

10:56

the colonies what a brilliant idea that they had had.

10:58

Of course they did it the way they did everything else through

11:01

a Mo letter entitled Flirty

11:03

Fishing and obviously as

11:05

always backed up by biblical verse.

11:07

This time Matthew 4.19 which

11:10

is follow me and I will make you

11:13

fishes of men. Which is what Jesus

11:15

says to his first two disciples because

11:17

they were fishermen. And

11:19

he was like don't you don't need to be doing this fish

11:22

stuff anymore. Come

11:24

with me and eat people instead. Oh my gild.

11:27

So Berg made it clear that this tactic was

11:29

being employed because all of the leafletting that they

11:31

were doing weren't working because they were just so

11:33

persecuted by the police who were constantly asking them

11:35

to move on. So

11:39

because of the powers that be the

11:42

children of God had absolutely no choice but to

11:44

fuck for Jesus because they had

11:46

to save everyone. Berg

11:48

said that women are bait and that they

11:50

should have sex with men who are the

11:52

fish so that Berg therefore Moses therefore Jesus

11:54

and therefore God could get more followers

11:56

and also obviously money. He

11:59

wrote that sex The human need is great

12:01

as shelter or as hunger and so Jesus

12:03

who sheltered the downtrodden and fed the hungry

12:06

would feel the same way about sex. Men

12:08

need sex and women should give it to them

12:11

despite how they feel about it. He's a

12:13

Jesus incel. He is! It's

12:16

like cult communism right? We

12:19

all share everything and you've got to have the

12:21

redistribution of sex also. Go

12:23

for it ladies. So

12:25

after a while in London, Berg decided that even

12:27

though he absolutely loved his second wife shagging a

12:30

load of men and letting him watch, he

12:32

actually would like quite a few more

12:34

women to have sex with. Presumably

12:37

he wasn't having much luck

12:39

with us uptight British

12:41

bitches, so he once again decided

12:44

to take his show on the road and

12:46

he, Zerbe, and a group

12:48

of meticulously collected babes in Christ

12:50

were moved from various colonies to

12:53

Tenerife in 1974. These

12:57

God's whores were expected

12:59

to fish five nights

13:02

a week on the Canary Island,

13:04

just as Jesus had laid down his life

13:06

for us. They had to lay

13:09

with men for him. Mo

13:11

letters added later on quote, if

13:13

they fall in love with you first before

13:16

they find it's the Lord, it's

13:18

just God's bait to hook them. Again

13:21

it's this like means to

13:23

an end mentality of like to the pure,

13:25

all things are pure, it doesn't matter what

13:27

depraved and horrible butt stuff you have to

13:30

do. As long as it's in love.

13:32

As long as there is a chance that

13:34

the person doing it to you might maybe

13:36

give you some money or convert.

13:40

So again, all

13:42

fair if done in love and love is

13:44

sex, which is a line that you will

13:47

hear repeated by many people who

13:49

escaped this cult. I think even in the

13:51

Tony Robbins documentary there's someone at one of his

13:53

conferences who was like, I was born into a cult

13:55

and I was taught that love is sex and sex

13:57

is love. Episode

14:02

is sponsored by Better Health. We.

14:04

All carry stress around day to day and a

14:06

big backpack of doom. Whether. It's

14:08

something really big, like. A life change or

14:10

something small like a change of clothes. anything

14:12

can see a like it's really dragging you

14:14

down but you know what? can drag you

14:16

right back up there again. Therapy To me,

14:18

therapy has been a really great way to

14:20

create some positive coping strategies for my day

14:22

to day life. The most important

14:24

thing I found is given myself missions ten

14:27

minutes by to stop thinking about everything I

14:29

need to accomplish and just sit still and

14:31

it's made an unbelievable difference to my overall

14:33

mental health. If he wants to someone

14:35

about how take control of what's going on in

14:37

your head, why not think about getting better help

14:39

ago. Set. To Help is entirely

14:42

online and designed to make access and therapy

14:44

is easy and convenient as possible. He.

14:46

Just that out a questionnaire and get matched

14:48

with a licensed therapist. If you want

14:50

to switch therapists any time you plans and no additional

14:52

charge. Chest with better health.

14:55

Visit. Better health.com/red handed today to

14:57

get ten percent. Of your first month.

15:00

That's. Better. Help.coms red

15:02

handed. Shopify

15:05

has already taken the cash

15:07

register online, helping millions sell

15:09

billions around the world. But did you

15:11

know that Shopify can do the same thing at

15:13

your retail store? Give your

15:15

point of sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

15:18

Shopify Pls is your command center

15:20

for your we sell store. From

15:22

accepting payments to managing inventory, Shopify

15:24

have everything you need to sell

15:26

and person. Trapped. Every sail

15:29

across your business in one place and

15:31

know exactly what's in. Do.

15:33

Retail: Read the sign up for

15:35

a one dollar per month trial

15:37

at shopify.com/red handed. Although. A

15:40

case that shopify.com Sauce threatened it to

15:42

take your retail business to the next

15:44

level today. shopify.com Such

15:46

retina. The.

15:50

Women who was doing the fishing were also

15:52

encouraged to join Us Who agencies to induce

15:54

a fixed payments for their services as they

15:56

fail to hook the fish in. The conversion

15:59

and handing over. That possessions net.

16:01

And. The women were also assured that violence

16:03

may happen, but just like Heavens girl and

16:06

just like the Christian martyrs, they should just

16:08

take it. Big. Pimpin over

16:10

him and assists Okra turn

16:12

the other buchi. Turn.

16:14

The other butchery. Because.

16:17

To. The Pure. All. things up your.

16:20

Access. Men: Having sex

16:22

with men didn't like that. Not.

16:24

Allowed lesbian as I'm absolutely. Fine

16:26

obviously. Masturbation. Was

16:28

allowed but only. If.

16:30

The person thought about Jesus while they were

16:32

doing his own like girl. So that means

16:35

because homosexuality isn't allowed, right? If you're a

16:37

man and you're masturbating, you have to be

16:39

thinking about Jesus. Be have to be thinking

16:41

about yourself as a woman while Jesus is

16:43

fucking you. Can maintain

16:45

that level of imagination? Said.

16:48

The entirety of a length. Of

16:50

the lot to ask of of us up. of act

16:52

of off that last. Ah

16:55

yeah about just the amount of sexy

16:58

people are having. Who's got time

17:00

to masturbate. right? Yeah, I'm

17:03

surprised that he went allowed masturbation.

17:06

I thought you'd have been like know you have to say

17:08

that fear, save or you'll see to yeah a nightly. But.

17:11

He's excessive. Masturbation isn't a Nike com like

17:13

it is. Only childhood memory is now straight.

17:15

Truth. I'd forgotten about that horrible

17:17

bit. So yeah he'll be

17:20

explained all of the cinema letter and. I

17:22

believe this will laugh. She came from Karen Xabi.

17:25

A handy list of phrases that one could

17:27

explain was having imaginary sex with a lamb

17:29

of god, a host of other, and I

17:31

worry I've got some. You.

17:34

Can go and read all of them

17:36

on the X Family website, but here's

17:38

some choice: Cuts. Cody for huge

17:40

she says. Sylvie. Jesus.

17:43

Thank. You for wanting me Cheeses. And

17:45

I'm desperate for your because penis. She's.

17:49

So. If you're a man, you're allowed. To shout the and

17:51

up say the things yeah, I'm desperately obey caught penis

17:53

as long as you're imagining that you are oh. okay

18:00

By 1973, the Children of God had 2,400 members living in 140 colonies in different

18:02

countries. The

18:08

major reason for this was that pulling

18:10

out was not an option.

18:13

One of the goals of any cult is

18:15

to get bigger, but for that

18:17

reason contraception was most definitely banned,

18:20

not just for my couples,

18:22

for everyone, including those who

18:25

were out flirty fishing. So

18:28

that means that these babes in Christ's

18:30

horse for Jesus, whatever they were being

18:32

called, who were going out and sleeping

18:34

with just random men in the hopes that they

18:37

might convert or just give them money, could

18:39

just be getting pregnant by absolute strangers. Cool.

18:43

That's what they want. Yes, yes,

18:45

no, they want loads of babies so

18:47

that the cult gets bigger and they're

18:49

not particularly bothered how that happens. Now

18:52

aside from just babies, there

18:55

was of course the inevitable flood

18:57

of STDs that also comes with

18:59

that level of unprotected sex. And

19:01

that was just very much presented by David Berg

19:03

as collateral damage. Berg

19:06

believed that women should suffer STDs because

19:09

Jesus had laid down his life for them. He

19:12

illustrated this point in a Mo letter with

19:14

a cartoon of a woman with a crucifix

19:16

shaped steak through her vag. And

19:21

it's like, again, women taking

19:23

the fall is a very

19:26

Christian thing because original sin is Eve.

19:29

Women fucked it all up for everybody and

19:31

we're expected to pay for it. So yes,

19:33

this is an extreme version, but

19:36

there is a reason women aren't allowed to

19:38

be priests. He

19:40

hasn't pulled this out of nowhere. More

19:44

rules for you. Women's pubes were to be

19:46

trimmed but not to be shaven. So it

19:49

looked neat, but also provided what Berg

19:51

referred to as a shock barrier. And

19:54

sharing, I just fucking

19:56

everybody all the time, was expected of

19:58

everyone. Former members have

20:01

said that no one was forced into sharing.

20:03

But. If you decided that you didn't want to

20:05

share yourself, Or. Your spouse or your

20:08

child. Then you

20:10

were deemed a back slider

20:12

which meant a closed minded

20:14

on spiritual delta. Ah,

20:16

because Sexual open This. Was.

20:19

Not only healthy, It was divine.

20:22

And. Luck. If you.

20:25

Want to be doing

20:27

that? Like sharing yourself let communal sex

20:29

you and your spouse like at. I thought

20:32

if you cannot, let. Sure, It

20:36

was powerful enough to

20:38

make. People parents

20:41

overcome. One. Of the most

20:43

fundamental, biologically hard driven things that they would

20:45

have thought in their minds, the idea that

20:47

you don't let strangers fuck your child. Is.

20:51

A Testament. To. Just

20:53

what a fucking horribly great Dr. David Book

20:55

was able to do. And

20:57

how much humans are willing to

20:59

sacrifice to feel happy? Cup.

21:02

Moral sweet women were expected to

21:05

share until they were eight months

21:07

pregnant. And. Then they could

21:09

have a little break apparently. Great. And

21:12

of course, children. Were pulled into this horrible

21:14

mess as well. Got quite

21:16

from a mole letter for you. It.

21:19

Is pure to us. There. Is nothing

21:21

wrong with it. So we let our kids being

21:23

on it. We. Let them get in on

21:25

it if they want. We've. And play with

21:27

with them because it's nice and it makes them feel good

21:29

and they enjoy it. right?

21:32

Let's leave that get back to fishing for

21:34

a second. Here. Are as written

21:36

in the mail letters. The. Seven

21:38

S Athletic Fishing. But.

21:41

Was often abbreviated to. Assessing.

21:44

Number One effective. To.

21:48

A Fuck does he. Get. Not

21:51

aware I've come across the for know. It also

21:53

doesn't begin with s. Three.

21:58

Fruitful therefore. should

22:00

be done as much as possible. Four,

22:02

efficient. Systemites were better for the

22:04

health of the cult. Five,

22:07

financial. Most of the time at

22:09

least a monetary donation would be made. Six,

22:12

official. Bringing in or at

22:14

least fucking influential people again doesn't start

22:16

with an F. And seven, forever.

22:20

He doesn't try that hard. No, that's

22:22

really really like... Someone

22:24

who had a good idea.

22:26

The seven F's for flirty

22:29

fishing and then couldn't think of seven F

22:31

words. The first word doesn't

22:33

start with an F. Nope. It's effective. Either

22:36

he's completely illiterate, which clearly he's not because

22:38

he writes like five million Mo letters.

22:41

Oh yeah, you're right. He's just like, don't,

22:44

don't, don't eat anything. Although

22:46

efficient and effective mean the same thing. Yes. I

22:49

know. So he's really scraping the

22:51

barrel. But it has to be seven because seven

22:53

is so important in Christianity. Yeah. And

22:55

what do we think a fuckdive means? If

22:58

we were going to hazard a guess

23:00

at the definition of the word, he

23:02

fucked it. I

23:05

think what he's getting at is

23:08

that it's sufficient

23:11

and you can fuck while you're doing it.

23:14

Sure. Effective

23:16

fucking. Sure. I think that's probably

23:18

what he was going for. Yeah. Although

23:20

the first word is also effective. I

23:24

can't help looking at it written down and thinking

23:26

it's like when you email somebody, you're like, oh,

23:28

nice to eat meat you. Maybe it's like a

23:30

person that you just have like

23:32

sex with nice to fuck you.

23:38

It was so effective for me. Anyway,

23:41

those are the seven F's. I hope you wrote

23:43

them all down. Now the

23:45

problem was even though the children of

23:47

God were run out of Tenerife

23:50

by a prostitution investigation, flirty

23:52

fishing was incredibly effective

23:56

in the first four years of it

23:58

being enforced across the children. of God

24:00

ministry, debate witnessed over

24:02

400,000 times. Fucked 63,000 people. And

24:05

half of those 63,000

24:10

people stayed in the children of God.

24:13

That's effective. That

24:16

is, that's number one. That's

24:19

wild. That's a crazy high

24:22

conversion. It works. You can't

24:24

argue with that. You can't. It

24:26

couldn't think of seven F words, but you can't argue

24:28

with that. But

24:30

who gave us these stats? Did he

24:33

write these down? They're

24:35

in Jesus Freaks. They're in Jesus Freaks. Okay. And

24:38

another one, little fact it. Within

24:41

the first four years of flirty fishing, which went

24:44

on for many more years after, 300 children

24:48

were born as a result of flirty fishing

24:50

worldwide. And those children

24:53

who were fathered by systemites were kept inside

24:55

the children of God. And they were given

24:57

the title Jesus babies because

25:00

they were delivered to the cult by Jesus

25:03

through the penises of other men. And

25:05

those men were referred to. No.

25:09

Yes. As flesh daddies. He's

25:12

so sick. He's such a

25:14

horrible little toe rag.

25:17

Yeah. David Perk, the

25:19

internationally renowned toe rag.

25:22

He's a trollop. We haven't called someone that in ages.

25:25

He's a disgusting trollop. So

25:27

the flesh daddies are the outsiders.

25:30

The spiritual daddies are the insiders,

25:32

right? So that's the men

25:34

inside the children of God. The

25:36

flesh daddies are not very important, but they are

25:39

tools of God. Fleshy

25:41

tools. Now

25:43

the first and most famous Jesus

25:45

baby was born to Karen Zerbe

25:47

herself. And she

25:49

called him Davidito. Now

25:52

if you know this story at all,

25:55

that name is going to make you immediately

25:57

sad. Like it just did to me. was

26:00

born in 1974, the same year

26:02

that Flutey Fishing was written into scripture,

26:05

and how he came to be has quite the

26:07

story. Berg and Zerbe

26:10

were staying in a hotel and Zerbe had sex a

26:12

total of 137 times with 18 different people who worked

26:14

at this hotel. And she'd been

26:20

pregnant. Somehow Berg and

26:22

Zerbe decided that a Spanish waiter

26:24

called Carlos must be the culprit.

26:26

Which like, oh flesh dirty.

26:29

How? No, no, how are

26:31

you pinpointing Paul Carlos? Maybe

26:34

he was the one with the most money

26:36

and they were like, he's the best one.

26:38

The waiter? Yeah, the Spanish waiter. I mean,

26:41

who knows? Who knows who else

26:43

she was fucking? Oh my god.

26:45

So yeah, Berg and Zerbe obviously

26:47

attempted to induct Carlos into the

26:49

cult, but he was having absolutely none of

26:51

it. He dipped after Berg

26:53

tried to get him to molest his

26:55

son and fuck his wife. Yep. He

26:57

like invites him into a hotel room and it's like, would

26:59

you like to molest the baby? And Carlos is like, no. Oh

27:02

my god, Carlos, I'm

27:05

glad you left. But why for the love

27:07

of God did you not call the police?

27:09

Okay, I'm never ever gonna like

27:11

say it's fine to abandon a

27:14

baby. It's never fine to run

27:16

out on your child. Firstly, Carlos doesn't even

27:18

know if it's his. And I

27:20

mean, yes, he probably should have called the

27:22

police, but maybe he did because they get run

27:24

out of Tenerife. This is true. This is true. Davidito

27:28

as he grew was heralded as

27:31

a great prophet. One of the

27:33

two mentioned in Revelation is leading the righteous

27:35

through Armageddon. Berg alleged

27:37

that Davidito was special because he

27:39

was born on the seventh hour

27:41

of the seventh day, which is

27:43

somehow 6am on a Saturday. Which

27:47

is, is some

27:50

very orthodox Christians do count the

27:52

week from Saturday, because it's the

27:54

like sundown of the Sabbath. It's

27:56

a push. Okay. And.

28:00

Seven does come up a lot in Abraham it

28:02

religions which while I had to be seven as

28:05

as the slutty fishing even though you can think

28:07

of them affected. So

28:09

have like three eighty six. Because.

28:12

Seven is associated with fullness.

28:14

So that seven is associated with like

28:16

a prophecy. be incomplete. In.

28:18

That language, basically. And that's why it comes

28:20

up and. Also.

28:23

I would add. Seven

28:25

is also a very important pagan

28:27

number. Their seven spirits. There

28:29

are seven. Deadly sins likes. Will

28:32

have sevens. Birds.

28:34

Claimed that David Ito was his own

28:36

son because he argued that the crops

28:39

belongs to them. He tends the land,

28:41

not the tool that tells it. Which

28:43

presumably makes color some kind of combine

28:45

harvester. Anyway,

28:49

the second profits to fight alongside devotee

28:51

tied to the seats the anti in

28:53

the end times. Surprisingly.

28:55

And with not David Burke. It. Was

28:57

kinds of, he said, perhaps Bug knew

29:00

that his days were numbered because he

29:02

did only call of this off when

29:04

he was sixty years. Savvy.

29:08

And another woman says intention.

29:11

Who was from the unicycle? Plus a few more.

29:13

From that. Dirty. Metal

29:15

Ring. Raised. Know the

29:17

details but only community. As

29:19

what they called. The. World's First

29:22

am. I just don't

29:24

even wanna say these

29:26

words. The. World's

29:28

first sexually liberated

29:31

child. We.

29:34

Have a met season before. She.

29:36

Had a reputation for not only

29:38

being an elite flashy Fisher. That.

29:41

Also. So being the most

29:43

malleable, Of Bugs close his

29:45

disciples. She. Offered up her

29:48

own seven year old daughter, Said.

29:50

Berg to rape. With.

29:52

Absolutely no prompting. what Seven net the

29:54

didn't even ask as she was just

29:56

how they go get us. So

29:59

what would you. What here is like a communal

30:01

raising children which is happening in every colony right?

30:03

Like I think I explained last. Week that you

30:05

don't get to spend any more time with your biological

30:07

mother than you would with any other women. And that's.

30:09

What they're doing with our bodies habit. That adding

30:11

this. Sexual. Liberation

30:14

and seen at this is

30:16

classic cult behavior because the

30:18

minute you have. Your

30:20

own nuclear family. You have your spouse,

30:22

You have your child. They.

30:24

Can become more important he's than the

30:27

cult itself and the systems. And that.

30:29

Shit. Crazy things that you're being preached. So.

30:33

We separate. King and briefing those

30:35

the Mineo connections and. Making every child

30:37

or every person as equal to you

30:39

as your own family. And.

30:43

That's very much what they the best way.

30:47

To. Say.

30:49

Sticking with this

30:52

story. And Nineteen

30:54

Eighty Two. Bird. That

30:56

the season and others published.

30:59

The story after the details. Which.

31:01

We are going to tell you

31:03

about because there is no way

31:06

to do that without this becoming

31:08

some sort of horrible crime. To

31:11

be want to find it. If

31:13

you want to really look at the story of

31:15

devotee. To and read it. You.

31:17

Can. Bet. On your head.

31:19

be it. I have.

31:22

Seen. Some of it before. He

31:25

he. Did. You. Didn't.

31:28

Need to make and know it's like

31:31

it's pretty bad. Genuinely wish I didn't

31:33

know. It's just some of

31:35

the west. Can

31:37

imagine. Basically, the story

31:39

of Nobody Ito was intended to be

31:42

a guideline for veering the second generation

31:44

of the. Those. Who

31:46

had been born on the inside? And

31:48

of course the babies. Further, Detail

31:50

with the profit for all children within

31:52

the cult which be raised in his

31:55

image. And you should know by now.

31:57

That. That meant a lot of child

31:59

sexual. At the hands of

32:01

the child's biological parents. A

32:03

Spiritual Fathers and literally anyone

32:06

else he was knocking out.

32:09

The. Story of Devotee Tell it's such a

32:11

tight to reach. For

32:14

you need to know. And.

32:16

I'm on a Station of Devotee Tail began

32:18

when he was just seventeen months. He

32:21

was raised alongside a girl Jesus baby cadaver

32:23

Dieter who he was encouraged to have sex

32:25

with from a very young age. And I

32:27

mean. The.

32:30

Year off to the child rearing guide

32:32

was published a Cult Reporters seven hundred

32:34

and forty six births. Mostly.

32:36

Jesus Babies all over the world.

32:39

The. Story of devotees her was eventually we

32:41

called heavily redacted and m re released

32:43

once those on high realize that it

32:45

could be used against them and child.

32:47

Abuse cases. You've

32:50

literally published an illustrated. Pamphlets

32:53

Yes on what you're doing to

32:55

this child. Now

32:58

they were other changes. To over the years.

33:02

That. Complete blah. They attitude towards

33:04

Stds came under scrutiny and the

33:06

wake of the Aids crisis. Bourke.

33:09

Wrote that the children of God could not

33:11

let the disease of the sort of might

33:13

affect them. Or. Spread within the

33:15

family. Who. It

33:17

is worth noting that after Jones to Birch

33:19

change the name of the cult from the

33:22

Children of God to the Family of Love

33:24

yeah. He. As we

33:26

have said multiple times is not done.

33:29

P. Re brands. Say.

33:32

Get the heat off! I think it's to do with

33:34

the prosecution of Sdk since. All. Of

33:36

the child abuse scrutiny. And he's just like.

33:39

With us. With. A

33:42

family of love is not easy with children.

33:44

Nothing so children is happening here. Yeah, you're

33:46

right. And slowly

33:48

Flaherty fishing. Was rained into.

33:51

Those. With long term fish who made

33:53

financial donations to the cult. Were.

33:55

Not maintain a relationship for a while.

33:58

Then. Any want his kiss. To

34:00

mind. Would. Have to go through

34:03

two rounds at eight testing before they

34:05

were allowed back. Into any

34:07

sharing parties. Yeah.

34:09

So. Std

34:11

wise, it's the Aids crisis that really

34:13

sets them up as oh yeah, those

34:16

Zola. Skits: Bunch basic

34:18

human rights accept you not allowed modern medicine. You

34:20

just have to have a garlic clove up your

34:22

bubble. But. Yeah, so eventually it

34:24

was the Aids crisis that meant

34:27

the end. Athletic fishing is remarkable

34:29

with David. That and again. This

34:31

comes back to that whole thing. a half.

34:34

Half the children of God than

34:36

the family. I laughed at the

34:38

family international survive because David was.

34:41

Even the fact that he is able

34:44

to recognize an existential threat to his

34:46

group. In the form

34:48

of prostitution rings being investigated.

34:51

Child abuse. He knows what he's doing.

34:53

Yoga is not delusional. The name change

34:55

removing any phrase of the were children

34:57

from that. And then understanding.

35:00

The risk the Aids Crisis post to him in the

35:02

group. And being able to again. The

35:05

strain what his coat was doing,

35:07

In order to survive which we see in a

35:09

lot got said not able to pull back once.

35:12

They sort of let everything go crazy and he

35:14

does that quite effectively we can. Interesting because I

35:16

don't think he's to lead it. I think that.

35:18

Jim Jones was too late at night I think.

35:20

Delusion plays an enormous part in the Downfall.

35:23

Of a bit. Burgers know your rights of almost

35:25

every co in history, but not David bad because

35:28

he knows what he's doing. his file. So.

35:31

Eventually, there was no more

35:33

contact with outsiders allowed at

35:35

all. With. The end of

35:37

Flaherty fishing came period of relative quiet the

35:39

children of them to. All. The

35:41

Family of Love as they were now known. As

35:43

has continued, Possibly. Because the

35:46

heat been turned up after the publication of the

35:48

story of devotee take. Back: Tone down the

35:50

sexy be stuff in the lettuce. A. For

35:52

good while they were more filled with how to

35:54

live best and Christ. Which. Of course

35:56

is actually all about control. One.

35:59

Of the technique. My bag on the

36:01

shepherds to control their followers in the

36:03

great place. Was. Up like

36:06

heart reports. Commonly. Referred

36:08

to as oh Hate us. Does.

36:11

It take place every day in the

36:13

evening. Were adults and children alike.

36:15

Would. Answer certain questions designed to

36:18

exposed as since. These.

36:20

Would then shared with the whole group. What?

36:23

Is Jim Jones who has been. Forgotten

36:25

that this is so common again.

36:28

like fuckin' Struggle sessions. Yeah, they

36:30

would call it a thought in

36:32

Jonestown. They. Have to get up

36:34

and say in front of everybody the yeah I

36:36

can't remember what that code but again it just

36:38

shows you. How. So many of

36:40

these leaders. Play from the same reason

36:43

and. And yeah that's what they

36:45

are. And like these questions were like how many

36:47

glasses of water you drink today? how many times

36:49

have you poop he would like he would conclude

36:51

in my letters like I did. Three Poop Say and

36:53

you should be doing a many move. That many poop. It's

36:56

an absolute but I assume because he

36:59

did so many my letters he just

37:01

ran us a nanny. Renting

37:06

is a to rag. It's. So

37:08

easy to feel like you're burning money. Paying

37:10

off someone else is mortgage. Lot. It's

37:12

time to saw a rental. Revolution and and

37:14

some rewards for your rent. And that

37:16

swept rewards comes in. Filth.

37:18

Is a groundbreaking rewards program the hooks you

37:20

up with rewards just a pain your rent.

37:23

Even. If you're still paying rent by

37:25

check. Built Rewards has got your back.

37:28

Though even mail a check for you and. You. Can

37:30

just watch those points role on and.

37:33

Why? Not put your paint tool to fight

37:35

another five hundred allies or room and over

37:37

seven hundred hotels and properties. That's a

37:39

holiday with help from your rent. Even

37:41

even put your points towards a future rent

37:43

payment or even a feature down payment on

37:45

a house. Of your own. Pay.

37:48

Rent hassle free through the built for with and. And

37:50

points are paying rent right now

37:53

when you go to joinbelts.com/red Handed.

37:55

That's. Joined built the I lt.com.

37:58

Says red handed. Mix. You

38:00

I u r l so they know that we said he.

38:02

Joined built.com/red handed to start sending points

38:05

with your rent payments today. You.

38:08

Know that feeling when you've just got back

38:10

from the gym, had a shower, and put

38:12

in your pajamas. It's literally my

38:14

favorite scene in the entire world

38:17

that is pure Make it Confidence.

38:19

That he know what else gives me that feeling

38:21

these days. Leumi whole body deodorant

38:23

I want to see Been shocked by

38:25

how good live me is. It

38:28

lasts all dead. Easily

38:30

even suggested to the gym or had

38:32

a staff meeting or been such an

38:34

amazing how recording studio or day. Leumi

38:37

also smells so good. Looming.

38:40

On even joking when they say it's

38:42

Ph balanced and safe to use down

38:44

below the belt. Leumi starter pack his

38:46

path at the New Testament. The comes

38:48

with a solid state deodorant, Cream

38:50

Tube deodorant to free products of your

38:52

choice like many body wash and deodorant

38:55

whites. And free shipping and as

38:57

a special offer to our listeners,

38:59

new customers get fifteen percent of

39:01

all the Me products with our

39:04

exclusive code. And if you combine

39:06

the fifteen percent off with the

39:08

already discounted thought about that equals

39:10

over forty percent of the starter

39:12

pack Use Code: Red handed the

39:15

fifteen percent of your first purchase

39:17

at Leumi deodorant.com That's right handed

39:19

at L U N E deodorant.com.

39:25

And some great friends children, Were

39:27

required to write down all of the

39:29

since they had seen performed by of

39:31

the children. And. If both children

39:34

both the accused and me a cheesy

39:36

didn't record the same exact. Speed

39:40

because it's a well one of us line. And.

39:42

This distinction of some group times

39:44

is important. The. Colonies of the Children

39:47

of God was home to thousands. They

39:49

were led by hundreds of different people

39:51

and not every home followed everything to

39:53

the my letter. But.

39:56

The prostitution investigation carried out by the

39:58

tannery police did sake. Gop a

40:00

bit. So. Much so that

40:02

in Nineteen Seventy Eight, he reorganize the

40:05

whole group. He fired three hundred

40:07

of the top leaders, including his own

40:09

children. He. Rarely rarely does take

40:11

a lot of his playbook. From

40:13

like not just other

40:16

cult leaders booted from

40:18

from Do Sports. Like

40:20

the whole struggle sessions for mouth. And

40:22

now. You've. Got this all like

40:24

right? Periodically I'm just going to call everybody

40:26

who's in my inner circle get out because

40:28

I can't trust any of you Shabbat mouth.

40:33

And. He called this mess

40:35

firing the are and all

40:38

reorganization, nationalisation and. Revolution Dell

40:40

Like guilt. And he told

40:42

his followers that this was absolutely necessary

40:44

because everything have become too complicated and

40:46

nothing was getting done. He

40:48

wrote quote many a democracy has

40:51

failed and ended in wrangling confusion.

40:53

Corruption and economic collapse necessitating a military

40:55

or political coup by strongman set up

40:57

with it all. And

40:59

again. In another genius move

41:02

from of. He removed

41:04

him says. Even more from

41:06

his flock and created an

41:08

even bigger distance between him

41:10

and the allegations of sex

41:12

abuse fraud. Savory, And

41:14

incest that was still to come. One.

41:17

Unavoidable detail of the mole lettuce.

41:20

Was. Encouragement of adults to

41:22

sexily obese children. Accompanied,

41:24

Like we said earlier, Was.

41:26

Caught two images of bug

41:29

and sometimes that in bed

41:31

with naked children. And

41:33

that I don't to get them too much credit. But.

41:36

These illustrations are not like. It's

41:38

not seen it then my shit courtyard like

41:40

sticks I guess. They are incredibly. Good illustration

41:43

Yeah, A horrible Horrible things. Which.

41:46

Story. On somebody else in

41:48

the group? probably? I don't know. No.

41:51

One account that we read. From a group

41:53

time in Thailand. Was. Ago asking

41:55

her father about the illustrations of

41:57

children being molested by adults. Her

42:00

father told her that it was a way of playing,

42:02

but we don't play like

42:05

that here. So there are

42:07

some of them are like, no, maybe I won't rape

42:09

my own child. But they still

42:12

don't leave. Yeah, yeah. It's

42:15

remarkable. Now life in the

42:17

group homes across the world is a tricky

42:19

thing to cover, because there were hundreds of

42:21

them. So what we have for you is

42:23

a collection of stories that we've gathered from

42:25

the books listed in the show notes. There

42:28

are of course, thousands more out there that

42:30

you can find at your own discretion. But

42:34

here are some common themes. College

42:36

was seen as the ultimate betrayal of God.

42:39

Women were expected to be skinny and have long

42:41

hair, which meant many of them

42:44

had obsessively restricted diets, which is not hard

42:46

when you're living off scraps. Women

42:48

were also instructed to walk like the pendulum of

42:51

a clock. What? Yeah.

42:54

What? Like

42:57

swinging your hips. Like

42:59

a strut. Okay. Right.

43:01

Got it. No. Both

43:06

of you, what I'm doing, but like waving

43:08

my arm back and forth.

43:11

That is such a random thing. Okay.

43:15

And modern medicine was discouraged

43:17

in favour of natural remedies. A

43:20

cure managed without the system's help was seen

43:22

as the ultimate win and a cause for

43:25

bragging rights. However,

43:27

a lot of the group homes

43:29

were in tropical climates, obviously, because Berg was like,

43:31

oh, they go to the East. That's the way

43:33

less corrupt. And we

43:36

all know that children, adults, males

43:38

and females, all lived in extremely

43:40

close quarters with very little sanitation,

43:43

often without running water. And

43:45

what does that mean in very hot places? It

43:48

means viruses, bacteria, infections and parasites.

43:52

Worms seem to be a

43:54

particular problem amongst the children of God, with

43:56

the natural recommendation remedy being a clove

43:58

of garlic inserted. into the butthole at

44:01

night and nobody was allowed to sleep with

44:03

underwear on and the adults were asked

44:05

to check the children for underwear

44:08

before they went to bed. And

44:10

that that garlic clothing and the worms

44:12

it's like I

44:14

think I read that story three times from three different

44:17

accounts so like it was a problem. Now

44:20

when they weren't incapacitated by worms,

44:22

children would be sent out into

44:24

the streets of the area that

44:26

they inhabited and forced to

44:28

beg from passers-by saying we

44:31

are the family international, a nonprofit

44:34

non-denominational Christian organization

44:37

and more often than not money would be

44:39

given. Unwashed missionaries in

44:41

far-flung corners not speaking the local

44:44

language has been going on for thousands

44:46

of years. This is not

44:48

exactly new. No so you

44:51

can understand how it went on for so long

44:53

because he's not doing anything

44:56

that hasn't been seen before to the

44:59

outside world you know. Alongside

45:01

the novel Jesus Babies, Berg did

45:03

of course have biological children who

45:06

went on to have their own children but

45:09

not all of them were as favored as nobody to.

45:11

Heaven's Girl, the superhero laser-eyed prophetess

45:14

that we met last week, was

45:16

actually based on Berg's favorite

45:18

granddaughter Mary. Sometimes you

45:21

see her called Mene, like M-E-N-E

45:23

but everyone has like 75 different names so if

45:26

I've got that wrong I'm sorry. Anyway Mary fell

45:28

out of favor as she got older and

45:31

the Mo letters became filled with stories of the

45:33

demons possessing her and the efforts made by Berg

45:36

and his closest circle to cast them out. Mary

45:39

was tied to her bed and

45:41

beaten by Mama Maria and Susan

45:43

Counton, the same woman who had

45:45

nannied davadito and she was beaten

45:47

and tied up for days on

45:49

end. Susan Counton is sometimes called

45:51

Sarah Counton, sometimes she is called

45:53

Angelica, it is very confusing. What

45:57

and get possessed by demons? To

45:59

let them in I think. is the order

46:02

to question and therefore and they're like oh my god

46:04

she's possessed by demons. Do we think what happened is

46:06

Mary got older and is like stop

46:08

raping me. That's exactly

46:10

what my next bullet point says. The

46:15

to the pure all things are pure motto

46:17

didn't seem to apply to Mary and we

46:19

don't know what her exact transgressions were but

46:21

I think we can make an educated guess

46:23

that it probably involved her grandfather and his

46:25

penis. She's

46:29

like no thanks and he's

46:31

like oh my god she's possessed by demons. I head to this

46:33

bed and let's pee her. But

46:37

the fact is Mary was not on

46:39

her own in quote unquote

46:41

making this mistake. Many

46:43

of the children born into the Children of God

46:45

got to adolescence and started to think hold on

46:48

this isn't what I want to

46:50

happen. This bizarre

46:52

anti-transgression coming of age happened

46:54

en masse and it

46:56

destabilized the cult of the Children of

46:59

God on a global scale. So

47:01

the bugs came up with a classic divide and

47:03

conquer plan to certainly not leave them

47:05

kids alone. Troublesome teens

47:08

refusing to be complicit in their

47:10

own abuse were sent to teen

47:12

homes essentially training camps usually in developing

47:14

countries where they were tied to bits and

47:18

routinely beaten and humiliated and

47:20

the plan was that they would be so blinded by all

47:22

the things that they would eventually stop

47:24

asking any questions. They were

47:26

also forced to listen to hours upon

47:29

hours of music made by and for

47:31

the Children of God including

47:33

Fudge Bangers as Kathy

47:35

don't go to the supermarket today and

47:38

watch out for the green door. Yeah.

47:42

The worst of all of the teen

47:44

homes was by far one in

47:47

the Philippines and the torture

47:49

device of choice there was called the

47:51

smile machine. The smile

47:53

machine was a device made with hooks

47:55

and elastic that attached the ears to

47:58

the mouth forcing a smile. The

48:00

Filipino teen home was so bad

48:02

that eventually the children of God

48:04

themselves dismantled it, afraid of lawsuits

48:06

and the children that had been

48:08

in the home were spread across other

48:11

group homes in different countries like Thailand,

48:13

Russia, Brazil and right here in

48:15

the UK. But as

48:18

the children got older things got even trickier.

48:21

Long questionnaires were handed out to

48:23

the teenagers and revealed that a

48:25

lot of teen and pre-teen girls

48:28

specifically were traumatized by their sexual

48:30

experiences with adult males. And

48:33

in response to this widespread questionnaire where

48:35

the children are like, no we don't

48:38

like this. A MO

48:40

letter was sent out entitled

48:42

Burn After Reading and yeah

48:45

it essentially shifted the policy

48:48

of sex to no

48:50

more sex with children we don't do that anymore but

48:53

burn this so nobody ever finds out. And

48:56

I think what's really interesting is that

48:59

it's the children who offset the

49:01

balance which makes it seem

49:03

like there is something innate within us

49:06

that means we know what is right and what is wrong.

49:08

When we're made like from the

49:10

beginning we know. And

49:13

perhaps that sense can be

49:15

beaten out of us as we get old and

49:17

jaded and it seems to be

49:19

pretty easy to do that as evidenced by the

49:21

thousands of adults that get drawn in by cults.

49:23

Yeah. Particularly one as extreme as the Children

49:26

of God. Definitely. I mean the last

49:29

page of our chapter on cults in

49:31

our book we do talk

49:33

about this. We talk about the idea

49:35

of how a person's personality can be

49:37

reorganized if the right set of circumstances

49:40

are created. If the right amount

49:42

of abuse and the right amount of deprivation and the

49:45

right amount of beating down

49:47

of them psychologically speaking and emotionally

49:49

speaking it can reorganize

49:51

the structure of your personality to be

49:53

the same as somebody who has a

49:57

personality disorder essentially. You

49:59

can manifest that in a person and

50:02

then they're gonna be much more pliable to

50:04

your will especially when you've got them from such

50:06

a young age. But I think while

50:09

that can happen and that does explain why a lot of

50:11

people are in this cult, I do think it's

50:14

something we shouldn't ignore that all these children that

50:17

were being abused from a very young age get to a

50:19

point and they're like, no, even though you've

50:21

done all these things to me, I know that this isn't

50:23

right and I'm going to say I don't want this to

50:25

happen anymore. So I think it's

50:27

the interesting condition

50:29

of being human, right? That there

50:32

is the ability for people to destroy us

50:34

and to reshape your personality but also the

50:36

inherent resilience that exists in so many of

50:38

them, that they don't. And

50:40

because quite a lot of them were

50:43

born at the same time, it all happens across the

50:45

world at the same time. It's

50:47

so interesting. And

50:49

Bexley Cameron talks about this a lot. One

50:52

thing she said that I thought about for about a week

50:54

after I listened to it was that

50:56

you know when a hug isn't for you and

50:58

you do. You do know when

51:00

someone is hugging you because they want it. Anyway,

51:03

Bexley's wonderful. Go and have

51:05

a look at her book called Cult Following. She's

51:08

also really pretty. So

51:10

you may be thinking, what happened with

51:12

all these tales of child abuse and published

51:15

accounts of incest? Did anyone

51:17

face any justice for this? Unfortunately,

51:21

there are as many answers

51:23

as there are members of the Children

51:25

of God to that particular question. In

51:28

1993, a former member called Ricky

51:30

DePoy appeared on Larry King and

51:32

said that he had been ordered by the

51:34

Children of God to rape a ten-year-old. But

51:37

before he filed any official

51:39

charges, Ricky killed himself. River

51:42

Phoenix said that he was first sexually assaulted

51:44

at the age of four and

51:46

we all know what happened to him. Interestingly,

51:48

Joaquin Phoenix has never said

51:51

anything. No, um, no. No.

51:54

But he's not fine. No,

51:56

he's not. And again,

51:58

look, coming back to the resilience. aspect

52:00

of it that I mentioned. Of course not

52:03

everybody who goes through this kind of abuse or

52:05

goes through abuse like this is

52:07

doomed to be somebody who has a broken

52:10

life and no future.

52:12

Of course that's not true. There's so

52:14

many stories of resilience. But River

52:16

Phoenix was most certainly not

52:18

okay. And you know, working

52:21

Phoenix's story is his to come. And

52:24

he hasn't said anything. My bad,

52:26

Eunice. Harren also

52:28

was not having the best time.

52:31

He threw himself off a mountain in Geneva.

52:34

Coming forward as a victim of any kind of

52:36

abuse is an incredibly hard thing to do. When

52:39

you've been told your whole life that your

52:41

way of living is an alternate belief that

52:43

no outsider would ever understand. And

52:45

you're also told that speaking to the police or the press was an

52:48

act of war on the cult, which

52:50

more often than not included your actual parents.

52:54

And then the final great shift came. In

52:56

October 1994, Berg finally died aged 75

52:59

from esophageal cancer. And

53:04

Karen Zerbe was left in charge. In

53:07

his last Mo letter he wrote, she's already my

53:09

manager and tells me what to do. Zerbe

53:12

inherited 10,000 members of the cult. 7,000 of them

53:14

were children. At

53:19

the time of his death, David Berg

53:21

was under investigation by Interpol and the

53:23

FBI. But the bastard managed to

53:25

die before they could prove anything. Nothing

53:28

happened to Karen Zerbe either. She has her own website,

53:30

it's in the show notes. And

53:33

she lists herself as, quote, the

53:35

spiritual and administrative co-director of the

53:37

Family International, a Christian fellowship

53:40

dedicated to sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ

53:42

around the world. Active in

53:44

the movement since 1969, she is

53:46

the author of numerous articles on the Christian

53:48

faith. For some reason she leaves out

53:50

that she's a big fat Peter. One

53:53

of the most vocal critics of Berg

53:55

and Zerbe was Davidito himself. And

53:58

we're afraid that the story of Davidito is not the end. Davidito has

54:00

a very tragic end. That

54:03

is also the last time you will hear us refer to

54:05

Davidito by that name. After

54:08

years of being exposed to orgies and molestation

54:10

as a child and as an adult, he

54:13

left the cult and changed his name

54:15

to Ricky Rodriguez. And

54:18

the list of his abuses beyond

54:20

the story of Davidito are

54:23

pretty endless, I'm afraid. He

54:26

was forced into sexual relations

54:29

with Karen Zerbe, his

54:32

own biological mother and

54:35

also Susan Cowton. Ricky

54:40

was put on the sharing schedule

54:42

at just 10 years old

54:45

and forced to have sex with Berg's

54:47

granddaughter to continue the family line. He

54:50

was also given a much older girlfriend when he was

54:52

just 12, but in the year 2000, he

54:55

left the Children of God for good, even

54:57

writing an email to a top shepherd that

55:00

he had every intention of coming back as

55:02

an avenger. He wrote

55:04

that he didn't understand why he should have to pay

55:06

for the sins of his parents. Initially

55:10

after he left Ricky moved to Washington,

55:12

bouncing through the couches and floors of

55:15

former members. And of

55:17

course he struggled to get a job because he

55:19

had literally no skills. But he did

55:21

manage to get an apartment with his girlfriend. And

55:24

he did eventually manage to get a job

55:26

as an electrician's apprentice. Although

55:29

he was emerging into the real world with a

55:31

flat and a job, he never spoke to anyone

55:33

about what had happened to him. He

55:36

didn't think that anyone from the system

55:38

would believe what had happened, because it

55:40

was so beyond comprehension. And

55:43

after four years of trying his hardest to live a

55:45

normal life in the world that Ricky was born and

55:47

bred to hate and not understand, he

55:49

got into a car accident. And

55:52

he was never the same again. After

55:54

that, Ricky moved himself to San

55:56

Diego and started to concoct a plan

55:58

to bring down the children. of need. To

56:01

do that, with his spirit-dirty

56:03

dead, he only had one

56:05

option. He had to track down the

56:07

current leader, his own

56:10

biological mother and rapist,

56:12

Karen Zerbe. And

56:14

when he found her, he resolved to kill

56:17

her. To do

56:19

this, Ricky made contact with other people still active

56:21

within the Children of God, and he

56:23

heard that Zerbe had been spotted in

56:25

Tucson. And the

56:27

nanny that we've been hearing so much

56:29

about, who had been complicit in Ricky's

56:32

abuse for years, was one

56:34

of the people that he contacted. Susan

56:37

Calton. By

56:39

this stage in the game, Susan had officially

56:42

left the cult, but she was still in

56:44

touch with Karen Zerbe. So Ricky

56:46

Rodriguez convinced Susan

56:48

Calton, a woman who had abused

56:50

him for years, to

56:52

come over to his apartment for dinner. His

56:54

intention was to extract from her where his

56:57

mother was. The night

56:59

before the dinner, Ricky set up a camera in

57:01

his kitchen and recorded an hour-long video

57:03

which he put up on YouTube. You can go and

57:05

watch it, but like everything this week and last, I

57:07

strongly advise that you didn't. There

57:10

is a grim irony about the video recording

57:12

considering that the Children of God were

57:14

the original camcorder cult. They

57:16

recorded everything from chores to orgies to child abuse

57:18

and they sent it off to their illustrious leader.

57:21

The video shows Ricky describing what happened

57:24

to him as a child, and

57:26

his hatred for those who did it to

57:28

him. I have

57:30

watched this video and

57:33

Hannah is right. Like,

57:35

I guess it's his, his

57:38

telling of what happened to him, but I

57:40

also think it is incredibly distressing. I

57:42

just couldn't get back in. Because,

57:45

as Ricky is saying and explaining

57:48

the horrendous things that happened to him, he's

57:51

also loading clips. Also,

57:53

in shot, there is an electric drill, socks

57:55

to be used as gags, duct

57:58

tape, a K-bar knife. and

58:00

a soldiering iron. He admits that

58:02

he doesn't want to do this, but his

58:04

need for revenge and justice was

58:06

an irresistible need, not

58:08

an urge un-resisted. He tells

58:11

the camera, what about us? They're

58:13

not even fucking sorry. He

58:16

also apologises for desecrating his boss.

58:18

He writes in this really long letter about,

58:20

oh I'm so sorry I think you're a really great person. He

58:24

tries so hard to have a normal

58:26

life. He

58:29

convinces himself like said, but it's impossible

58:31

until he gets revenge. Susan

58:34

did go to Ricky's apartment. We

58:37

don't know what happened or whether she

58:39

told him where Karen's Erby was hiding.

58:41

We do know that Ricky Rodriguez stabbed

58:43

her five times and then

58:45

slit her throat. Then he got

58:47

in his car and called his girlfriend and

58:49

said, killing someone

58:52

so much harder than I thought it would be. Then

58:56

he drove to a Holiday Inn Express in California

58:58

just over the state line. He

59:00

checked into the hotel, ate some beef jerky, drank some

59:02

beers and had a shower. Then he got back

59:04

in his car and drove to a

59:07

nearby industrial estate, put his phone on

59:09

the dashboard and shot himself in

59:11

the head. And this is the bit. There's a bit

59:14

in the video where he

59:17

says every day is a little bit

59:19

worse than the one before. Something

59:23

I say to myself and everyone else when bad things happen is

59:25

like, this is the worst it will be. Tomorrow will be better.

59:28

And once you get into that headspace of every day

59:30

is a little bit worse. It's

59:32

so hard to pull it back.

59:35

Ricky was discovered the next day. It has

59:38

been speculated that he drove over the state

59:40

line to involve the FBI by

59:42

committing crimes in two different states. We

59:45

still don't know where Karen Zerbe is, but

59:47

we do know that she started

59:50

rickyrodriguez.com, a website

59:52

dedicated to suicide victims, making

59:55

a martyr out of him. The

59:57

last thing that Ricky ever would have wanted.

1:00:00

which she well fucking knows. Now

1:00:02

we're then forced to talk about the

1:00:05

social prison law. These

1:00:07

days the children of God are going under

1:00:10

the name The Family International. And

1:00:12

you can take yourself over to their website if

1:00:15

you really, really want to. You

1:00:17

can even listen to their podcasts, which

1:00:20

we haven't had the strength to do, but

1:00:22

it does feature in Hannah's opinion the

1:00:24

best book image of all time. What it is, is

1:00:27

an open Bible with

1:00:29

a USB cord just in the

1:00:31

pages stuck into an eyeball. It's

1:00:34

so funny. Fuck it. Fuck

1:00:38

it. I'll show it to you. It's

1:00:40

so funny. If you go

1:00:42

and listen to the podcast, you will also discover that

1:00:45

there is an entire series on there

1:00:47

about parenting. The

1:00:50

copy reads, the keys to

1:00:52

parenting series features practical tips, techniques

1:00:54

and helpful information on how to

1:00:57

raise children with love

1:00:59

and integrity. Does it?

1:01:02

I don't know if I've said anything that's

1:01:04

ever been more sinister than that on this

1:01:06

show. I need to go and have

1:01:08

a shower. A

1:01:10

burning one. In February 2009. Fuck

1:01:15

you Karen Zerbe. Karen

1:01:17

Zerbe announced that the end times had been delayed.

1:01:20

Fuck off. Oh my God. Look,

1:01:22

I'm not like I wish Ricky had killed her.

1:01:25

I wish he was in prison. Yeah. In

1:01:28

2010, presumably as a

1:01:30

result of Armageddon being pushed back a

1:01:32

bit, the Children of God

1:01:34

disbanded completely and quote, reorganized as

1:01:36

an online community. They

1:01:39

currently claim to have about 1700 members, or thereabout. And

1:01:43

I'm sure that communal living still happens because original

1:01:45

members would be well into their seventies and eighties

1:01:47

by now with no pensions or transferable skills because

1:01:49

they were all told that the world was going

1:01:51

to end. So there was no point paying into

1:01:54

the system with mind or money. Children

1:01:56

are now allowed to be enrolled in schools

1:01:58

and members are allowed to get to work. in the

1:02:00

relationships with non-members on a non-fishing basis,

1:02:03

but still thousands of lives and millions of

1:02:05

hours of collective belief just went up

1:02:08

in smoke. And the strength

1:02:10

of numbers of a cult that taught

1:02:12

something so reprehensible as child abuse, it

1:02:15

just shows us that it happens. And

1:02:17

it happens a lot more than we think it does. Humans

1:02:20

are susceptible to cults because we all want to

1:02:22

have an authority tell us what is right and

1:02:24

what will make us happy. And we seem to

1:02:26

be able to lose the deep sense of morality

1:02:29

that children have. And over the

1:02:31

past two weeks we have also, maybe not learned

1:02:33

but proven the point, that the

1:02:35

Bible can be made to say literally anything, as

1:02:38

in Corinthians 1.19, For

1:02:41

ye are not your own, ye are bought

1:02:43

with a price. Therefore glorify

1:02:45

God in your body and in your

1:02:47

spirit, which are gods. It's

1:02:50

all in there. So plug your

1:02:52

USB cable into your Bible and

1:02:55

set it on fire. Yeah,

1:02:58

absolutely awful. I

1:03:00

think about Ricky Rodriguez most days now. Yeah,

1:03:03

it's so horrible. Poor Ricky, poor all

1:03:06

of those children. Again,

1:03:09

I don't want to condemn people for

1:03:11

like, oh well, that was so fucked up you

1:03:13

are fucked. But Ricky Rodriguez is

1:03:15

one of those people that never ever stood

1:03:17

a chance. And

1:03:20

he tried so hard. That's what it

1:03:22

is. He tries so

1:03:24

hard and he just can't do

1:03:26

it. So

1:03:28

yeah, that's it guys. That

1:03:31

is incredibly horrible story of

1:03:34

David Berg, Karen Zerbe and the children

1:03:36

of them. And what

1:03:38

became of them and the fact that

1:03:40

they are still around. Yep,

1:03:43

whatever. That's it. Yeah, go and

1:03:46

touch a tree.

1:03:49

Yeah, we'll be back next week

1:03:51

with a different case. Goodbye. Bye. Prime

1:04:28

members, you can listen to red-handed

1:04:30

early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

1:04:32

Download the Amazon Music app today

1:04:34

or you can listen ad-free on

1:04:36

Wandry Plus on Apple Podcast. Hey

1:04:39

you, before you go, tell us a

1:04:41

little bit about yourself by completing a

1:04:43

short survey at wandry.com/survey. Audible

1:04:46

is the destination for thrilling audio entertainment.

1:04:48

Allow your imagination to be peeked by

1:04:50

stories that are brought to life through

1:04:53

captivating sound design, eerie sound landscapes, and

1:04:55

dynamic performances. As an Audible member, you'll

1:04:57

be able to keep your heart rate

1:05:00

up month after month because you can

1:05:02

choose one title a month to keep

1:05:04

from the entire catalog, including the latest

1:05:07

bestsellers and new releases. If you're in

1:05:09

the mood for a shocking psychological thriller,

1:05:11

check out None of This Is True

1:05:13

by Lisa Jewell. Embrace brand new exclusive

1:05:16

thrillers from bestselling authors who are

1:05:18

guaranteed to keep you