0:00

when the separation between

0:02

the dollar and gold occurred and

0:05

the printing of dollars just continued

0:07

and continued . At that point

0:09

a Titanic

0:12

shift occurred , because the Fiat Money

0:14

Printer was then weaponized . They leaned

0:16

into corporate

0:19

and industry , which benefits

0:21

and profits far more off

0:24

of Doritos than they do off

0:26

me , the

0:28

Fiat Money Printer .

0:35

In this episode I'm speaking with investigative

0:37

journalist and author , matthew Lisak

0:39

, who has recently written

0:41

a book called Fiat Food . The

0:43

premise of the book is that the food

0:45

system that we're dealing with today , that's

0:47

a wash in low quality ingredients and

0:50

refined foods like seed oils , and

0:52

relates back to economic changes

0:54

that happened in the 1970s

0:57

, specifically the removal of

0:59

the US dollar from a gold

1:01

standard backing . This is

1:03

a very interesting interview

1:06

and we go into a lot of the societal

1:08

level impacts and

1:11

contributions to how we got to where

1:13

we are from a nutritionally

1:15

bankrupted food system

1:17

. If you enjoyed this episode , then

1:20

check out my episodes with Texas Slim , who

1:22

has also raised these

1:24

similar ideas . Hope you

1:26

enjoy it , and now on to the podcast

1:28

. Okay

1:31

, matthew , thank you for coming on the Regenerative Health podcast

1:33

.

1:35

Thank you for having me , Max , I'm excited .

1:38

So you have written a very interesting

1:40

book that was released not long

1:42

ago called Fiat Food , and

1:45

the title of the book is

1:47

an expansion on

1:49

a book chapter that was written by

1:52

a gentleman called Saferdine

1:54

Ammous , and I read

1:56

that book chapter a couple of people sent it to

1:58

me and that goes in depth

2:00

about the processed food environment

2:03

, the processed food industry and , more importantly

2:05

, the monetary incentives behind

2:07

why we've got such

2:10

a behemoth processed food industry . And

2:12

for me that's relevant because I'm a medical doctor

2:14

seeing the beginning and

2:16

the end consequences of metabolic diseases

2:19

, type 2 diabetes , chronic kidney disease

2:21

and all these problems that are coming

2:23

up our healthcare system . And

2:26

so when I read and I found out that , matthew

2:28

, you had written a whole book about this

2:30

chapter , I immediately bought

2:32

it and it is a fascinating

2:34

read and it drills

2:37

down into some amazingly

2:39

interesting rabbit holes about how

2:41

we collectively , as a society

2:44

, have arrived at where

2:46

we are . So I listened

2:48

to one of your earlier podcasts and you have your

2:50

own personal story and I really think that's

2:52

a great place to start . I like to go through people's personal

2:54

stories because it really gives us a good intro

2:57

, so maybe you can tell us about your

2:59

health journey and then how you ended

3:01

up writing a book about fiat

3:03

food .

3:06

I grew up as a little boy into

3:08

80s I'm 46

3:10

right now , so I

3:12

was on a cusp of when the

3:15

nutritional guidelines began coming

3:17

up . My teenage years of

3:19

, say I think

3:22

it was 1992

3:24

, the food pyramid came out and

3:27

that told everybody to eat a lot of grains cut

3:30

down on saturated fat . My

3:32

parents loved me . They wanted me to

3:34

be healthy , so if they began feeding me a lot

3:36

of grains , wearing the past , our

3:38

family would have more meat . The

3:41

latest health told us that that was

3:43

killing people . So my mom kind

3:45

of transitioned into some

3:47

of these more processed foods . I

3:51

developed what I would consider

3:53

to be an addiction to sugar and flour

3:56

. I mean , I ate

3:58

so much processed garbage , including

4:00

seed oils , that we were being

4:02

told was healthy . I don't know your

4:05

demographic for your audience , but in

4:07

the 90s margarine was considered a health

4:09

food , as were

4:11

vegetable oils , and sugar

4:14

wasn't considered bad in

4:16

moderation . But moderating

4:19

sugar for me was not an easy job . I don't

4:21

know who it is for . Anyways

4:23

, by age of 15 , I got a cancer

4:25

, I got osteogenics

4:27

or colon in my leg and I remember and

4:31

I had eaten a lot of bad

4:33

food , like I wasn't just a moderate junk

4:35

food eater , I had eaten tremendous amounts

4:38

of sugar and flour

4:40

and remember drinking Mountain

4:42

Dew , a lot of Mountain Dew . And I

4:44

remember lying in a hospital bed feeling like I

4:46

had done something wrong to my

4:48

body and that's why I was sick and

4:50

asking the doctors how

4:53

did this happen to me ? And they

4:55

said they're great

4:57

doctors . But they were like we don't know why

5:00

people get cancer . It could be genetic , it could

5:02

be environment , we just really don't know . I

5:05

did know like , intuitively , my body

5:07

knew that I had just been treating it Like

5:10

a trash can , and

5:12

that spurred a

5:15

real passion

5:17

to try to find out what

5:20

is healthy . How do I stay healthy

5:22

? I don't wanna be sick again . Cancer's

5:24

no joke . It's

5:26

not good . You don't want it . I definitely

5:29

did not want it and I wanted to try to live a life

5:31

that would keep me upright

5:33

. I

5:35

became a journalist and my

5:37

main job was to

5:40

follow

5:43

national news as it broke around

5:45

the country , in particular mass shooting . So

5:47

I worked at the fifth biggest paper in America , the

5:49

New York Daily News , and I would parachute into

5:51

these different areas and cover crime . I'd also cover

5:53

political scandals quite a bit . So

5:57

I've always had a skeptical view of

6:00

power centers , and

6:03

this increased

6:05

with COVID , when

6:09

I become accustomed to politicians lying

6:11

and deceiving

6:15

the public in various ways . But

6:17

COVID

6:19

it seemed like they had jumped the shark . It was

6:21

like they weren't even really . They were

6:23

no longer pretending to

6:26

have our best interests at heart . I

6:28

mean , I remember advice early on with

6:30

COVID that when it was clear

6:32

that overweight people were being affected , advice

6:35

to stay home , maybe

6:38

it's a good time to eat chocolate and get takeout , and

6:40

there's very little mention of diet . Vaccine's

6:44

a whole another story . But that sent me . Somehow

6:46

I found , on a friend recommendation from a

6:48

friend , safedin Amruse's book Bitcoin

6:51

Standard , which led me to

6:53

read to Fiat Standard , where I found the

6:56

chapter on food where

6:59

Amruse

7:01

posited this theory that

7:04

our food

7:06

supply was being manipulated to

7:09

make inflation appear as

7:12

though it weren't as much of a factor

7:14

, and I initially believed that to be a

7:16

ludicrous theory . I thought , wow

7:18

, I respect Safedin so much in terms of

7:20

his economics , but this is a completely

7:22

insane belief . But

7:25

Safedin earned a lot of respect

7:27

from his previous work . So I

7:29

began doing a deep dive on that chapter and

7:32

what I realized was

7:34

that Safedin wasn't

7:36

exaggerating . In fact

7:38

I would consider his argument understated

7:41

in that chapter and

7:43

I decided to write a book . I

7:45

reached out to Safedin , I let him know my credentials and

7:48

who I was and we

7:50

partnered on expanding

7:52

his chapter into a book

7:55

where , from an investigative reporter

7:57

standpoint , where we examine the

7:59

exact cause and how this

8:01

happened to our food supply . And

8:04

I think the results from

8:07

my perspective were just remarkable

8:09

when I was able to peel

8:11

the curtain back , because it isn't even as

8:13

if it's

8:15

some hidden conspiracy , it's

8:18

right there in front of you and

8:21

you just need to see it

8:23

and to put it together . And when

8:25

you put it all together and

8:27

you stand back a little bit , you

8:29

understand why your neighbor

8:32

standing in line at Walmart weighs

8:35

400 pounds but

8:37

their grocery cart is full of ice cream and

8:40

snack wells . So

8:43

that was been my journey , but

8:46

my journey continues . I've been carnivorous

8:48

now for almost a year . I'm

8:50

still drinking coffee , so I'm not some

8:52

carnivorous . Find that to be non-carnivorous

8:55

. I have my little weaknesses , but I

8:57

found , since I've cut out eating

9:00

processed foods and sugar , I personally

9:02

also found the health effects to

9:05

be amazing .

9:08

Yeah , and you're in fine

9:10

company when it comes to journalists writing

9:12

about nutrition . And Gary

9:14

Taub wrote a book called Calories

9:17

Bad Calories that was it kind of really

9:19

pulled a lot of doctors down the

9:21

low carbon metabolic medicine pathway . And

9:23

then Nina Tysholtz has written a big

9:26

, fat surprise which

9:29

again has kind of really unveiled

9:31

for us as practitioners what

9:34

we weren't able to see . And maybe that's because we

9:36

don't lack we lack the Pacific training

9:39

in that area . But just

9:41

like I like to speak to engineers on medical

9:43

and scientific areas because they give a fresh

9:45

perspective , I think what you've done with your

9:47

book and journalists arriving

9:49

at these topics with your fresh perspective is

9:51

just it's amazing and

9:54

what you can uncover . So

9:56

I really want to walk people through

9:59

this whole story because it

10:02

actually needs a fair bit of time to

10:04

do it justice . And I

10:06

think a good place to start , which is

10:09

kind of where you start in the book , is

10:11

really framing what the health

10:14

status of your country was

10:16

. And again , this book is written mostly from the perspective

10:18

of the United States , but

10:20

it's relevant throughout the world because

10:22

we in Australia and

10:25

UK and every other country essentially

10:27

, have followed the US lead

10:29

when it has come to dietary

10:31

recommendations . So what

10:34

you mentioned , and you make

10:36

the point that in 1910

10:38

influenza was the most frequent

10:40

cause of death and

10:42

heart disease . When I

10:44

say heart disease I mean atherosclerotic cardiovascular

10:47

disease . So coronary

10:49

atherosclerosis was basically unheard of

10:51

and Dr

10:53

Chris Kenobi has done an amazing talk

10:55

about this . Physicians

10:58

hadn't seen heart attacks . It was so

11:00

rare it was almost unheard of . That

11:03

was the kind of the

11:06

background to everything . Yet

11:08

meat consumption I

11:10

mean people ate meat , people ate animal fats . So

11:12

talk to us about this kind

11:14

of prelude to everything

11:16

that happened later in the 1970s

11:18

and before and onwards

11:20

.

11:23

Before the 1900s , americans

11:28

weren't confused about

11:30

what to eat . There wasn't really big debates

11:32

about it . If you could find meat

11:34

, you ate meat , particularly

11:37

red meat . If you couldn't

11:39

and there was an issue of cost

11:41

or finding the right nutrients

11:43

, that's a different story Then maybe you would eat

11:46

some plants or but it was always

11:48

considered peasant food . People

11:51

who had the beans ate meat . There

11:54

didn't need to be dialysis

11:56

of podcasts and books on this subject because

11:58

, much like a lion knows

12:00

what to eat and a cat knows what

12:03

to eat when they're outside , people knew what

12:05

to eat . It wasn't

12:07

debatable and Not

12:10

coincidentally , metabolic disease

12:12

was virtually

12:14

unheard of . I mean , it happened , but it

12:16

was very , very rare , as

12:20

heart health was significantly

12:22

better than it

12:25

is today , and what

12:28

we saw in the beginning of the century was

12:30

a shift where food

12:33

or products

12:36

that were not considered fit for human

12:38

consumption began

12:41

being marketed as food , and

12:44

this was a very sophisticated campaign . I

12:47

like to go back to the

12:49

seed oils and Criscox . That

12:51

was one of the really early

12:53

movers and for

12:55

the first time so people ate a

12:58

margarine or a Crisco . In the beginning

13:00

they didn't recognize it as food . In

13:04

New York there were riots over

13:06

retailers selling

13:09

margarine and telling people

13:11

it was butter . And there

13:13

were laws passed and politicians

13:15

were very upset about this . How could they

13:18

push this food

13:20

on people and tell them it's food

13:22

? Because it's not food , it's a substitute . But

13:27

it was cheaper and

13:29

when World War II happened

13:31

people didn't have as

13:35

much disposable income . Margarine

13:38

became more prevalent , criscox

13:41

. For thousands

13:43

and thousands of years people cooked with lard

13:45

or animal fats . But

13:49

Proctor and Gamble had an issue

13:51

once , you

13:53

know , they were candle makers and they used

13:56

the wax , the cotton seeds , and they

13:58

used it as industrial lubricant . But

14:01

suddenly they saw an entire

14:04

new market that they could tap into with

14:06

this cotton seed waste

14:08

product and they

14:11

were able to convince people

14:13

that this was food . And they didn't . Just

14:15

there was a very clever marketing

14:17

campaign that went into this , but it was also

14:19

through funding nutrition

14:24

science to justify

14:27

their . You know , to justify

14:29

, they weaponized

14:31

nutrition science to basically have press

14:33

releases that would then get printed into

14:35

articles of the day that

14:38

it was healthy for people

14:40

and that lard was an unsophisticated

14:43

kind of backwards way of cooking

14:46

. So those were

14:48

the early , early precursors

14:51

to the change in the food supply , but

14:53

I wanted to mention them because it's notable

14:55

that they were really the first . Up until

14:58

up until then , people

15:01

ate animal products and

15:03

occasionally berries or honey , if you could find

15:05

it , but grains were rare . Sugar

15:08

was was

15:10

consumed , but not nearly to this extent

15:13

, and people

15:15

were much healthier .

15:17

Yeah , and it's a great point you make because

15:20

it was insidiously added into the food supply

15:22

, these , the hydrogenated

15:24

cotton seed oil , and I know exactly

15:27

what you're referring to . They use tactics

15:29

like , like marketing

15:31

to Jewish families

15:34

in New York because it was , you

15:36

know , this is a kosher cooking vegetable

15:38

shortening . It's more hygienic . They

15:41

they made cookbooks and they

15:43

passed them around the housewives and

15:45

said if you want to do the right thing by your family

15:48

, you're going to use vegetable shortening , not that

15:50

dirty pork lard . So there was these

15:52

. It's interesting to think that even

15:54

that far back they were using these corporate tactics

15:56

to kind of weasel that waste product

15:58

into the human

16:00

food supply . And , as

16:03

you say that it was , it was essentially

16:05

promoted in the place of lard

16:08

. And we're going to talk

16:10

about Eisenhower's heart attack , but

16:13

I actually think that that was

16:15

one of the key reasons why atherosclerotic

16:18

heart disease actually started taking off

16:21

, which was the increased consumption

16:23

of cotton seed oil . And

16:26

what about soy oil ? Because

16:29

that was another product that , again

16:31

, people would have eaten very little of . But now

16:33

soybean oil reflects one of the

16:35

most consumed polyunsaturated

16:38

oils and cooking oils in America

16:41

. So how does the soy

16:43

fit into it ?

16:44

Yes , soy was also

16:47

considered a waste product

16:49

that people

16:51

would eat in times of famine . But

16:54

and I know we're going to get into the seventh day

16:56

Adventist church later they were really

16:59

instrumental in promoting soy

17:01

as an alternative to meat to

17:03

stem human reproduction and

17:06

carnal , carnal feelings

17:08

. Just to kind of step back for

17:10

a quick moment , you mentioned Nina Tichels and

17:12

she in her reporting . She's a fantastic

17:15

reporter . She's author of Big

17:17

Fat Surprise . She

17:19

found , and she's the

17:21

first one to discover this , I think , that

17:24

the American Heart Association

17:26

was literally created by

17:29

Proctor and Gamble . American Heart

17:31

Association was a very small organization

17:33

and then Proctor and Gamble

17:36

donated millions of dollars

17:38

to it at the time , which would have

17:40

been a gazillion dollars , gave it the

17:42

ability to expand I don't know the exact dollar

17:44

amount gave it the ability to expand and

17:46

shockingly , they

17:49

began suggesting

17:52

that people switch from animal

17:54

fat based cooking oils to Crisco

17:57

. It's

17:59

not a coincidence . In terms

18:01

of soy , it's again

18:03

. It's another very , very cheap

18:06

, nutrient-deplete , plant-based

18:09

product that if

18:11

people saw how it was made , I

18:13

think that they would never especially

18:16

like soy lecithin . They would never

18:18

consume it and they would understand that it's not a

18:20

food district for human consumption . I

18:23

mean it has to be . It's

18:25

very disgusting . I don't want to make

18:28

your audience nauseous .

18:30

Yeah , it's not . No

18:32

, it isn't . And again , this idea

18:34

of it's not voluntarily selected

18:36

by human free choice

18:39

, if you have an

18:41

option , and it's not able to

18:43

be readily manufactured

18:45

by people without a whole industrial

18:47

apparatus . So the

18:49

thought that this is in any way , shape or form

18:51

fit for human consumption is

18:54

really baffling in my mind if we

18:56

have a shred of understanding of

18:58

the whole process . So the

19:00

seven day adventures are a key part of this

19:02

story , and I did a real loan scram

19:04

recently that went a little

19:06

bit viral and I made

19:08

the point that these recommendations

19:11

that we've left with or that we're

19:13

dealing with today in terms of the official

19:15

dietary body's recommendations

19:18

of diet which is rich in fruits

19:20

and vegetables , nuts , seeds , legumes , plant

19:22

protein and seed oils and low in red

19:24

meat , saturated fat and cholesterol

19:27

, and that is a carry

19:29

on or a legacy from this so-called

19:31

garden of the eating diet of

19:33

the Seventh Day Adventists . So talk to

19:35

us about how they fit

19:37

into the picture .

19:40

This is one of my favorite parts of the book

19:42

. Max LNG White

19:44

is this young

19:47

girl and she goes

19:49

to church and she describes in her autobiography

19:51

how she'd come home and she would just

19:53

cry over what an awful person

19:55

she was and a sinner and how she could

19:57

never be right with God . One

20:00

day she's walking home from school and

20:03

she gets hit in the back of the head with a rock . She

20:07

goes into like a short coma . It's

20:09

knocked out for a long time . It's kind of unclear

20:11

, but when she awakes she's

20:15

getting messages from God

20:17

directly to her and

20:20

he's saying many things , but his

20:22

main message to Ellen

20:25

is the world will come to an

20:27

end . The apocalypse is coming

20:29

. We need to save as many

20:31

people as we can by making

20:34

their bodies pure , and the main

20:36

way we can do that is to remove

20:38

their sex drive . Their

20:41

sex drive is

20:43

caused by red meat

20:45

, and

20:48

she started a church based on this premise

20:50

, the Seventh Day Adventist Church , and

20:54

she

20:56

found a doctor

20:59

, a young man named

21:01

John Harvey Kellogg , who wasn't a doctor

21:03

at the time but he had worked with her . He

21:05

was a member of the church and

21:07

they became very close and he became

21:09

a doctor . And John Harvey

21:11

Kellogg is hard to overstate

21:14

how influential he became . He

21:16

was like the celebrity doctor of the

21:18

time . He wrote books , he

21:20

gave lectures , he was everywhere

21:22

and

21:25

he was I think the

21:27

evidence would say as complete sociopath

21:30

. Some of the

21:32

he was infatuated with masturbation

21:34

and stopping children from masturbating

21:36

, and some of the things that he did

21:38

included pouring carbolic acid

21:41

on the clitorises of young girls , caging

21:44

caging and tying

21:46

people's hands . He

21:49

recommended in some of his writings that

21:51

if masturbation continued

21:54

in a young male , to have surgery

21:56

performed without anesthesia

21:58

, so that the memory of the pain would

22:00

be associated with sexual

22:02

pleasure . So

22:04

he was very adamant about

22:07

trying to

22:09

repress the human sex drive . And

22:12

Ellen White had an idea that what

22:15

we need to do is develop an alternative to meat

22:17

so that we

22:19

could feed this to young people . It

22:21

will repress their sex drive

22:24

and save

22:26

the world . That's

22:28

how we invented corn flakes . Corn flakes

22:30

were invented for the sole reason of

22:34

preventing young people

22:36

from masturbating and repressing a sex drive

22:38

. A bit of irony in this is that

22:40

it worked . I

22:43

mean it worked very

22:46

successfully . It does . A

22:48

diet high in grains does

22:50

repress the human sex drive , lowers

22:54

fertility rates . He

22:57

eventually had a fallout , john Harvey , with the church

22:59

she discovered that Ellen White actually

23:01

did eat meat and she was lying to everybody . She

23:03

particularly liked fried chicken . You

23:06

find this with a lot of so-called

23:08

vegetarian and vegans they

23:10

do eat meat , a lot of them . He

23:13

had a falling out with the church and then he

23:15

became a eugenicist . So

23:18

he advocated and was responsible

23:20

for I believe it was over 3,500

23:23

women in the state of Michigan being

23:26

the reproductive organs were

23:28

removed so that they couldn't have children because

23:31

he didn't think they were fit . So

23:33

he was a real sociopath . But the

23:36

Seventh-day Adventist Church didn't stop . With

23:38

John Harvey Kellogg , a

23:40

lot of the protegees

23:43

, or the people who came after , became

23:46

, including somebody named Lena Cooper , started

23:50

the ADA , the American Dietetics

23:52

Association , and

23:54

formalized nutrition

23:56

health in America . To

24:00

this day , the

24:02

ADA largely

24:04

controls and runs what we consider

24:06

nutrition . So while they don't

24:08

talk about masturbation all the time , they

24:12

change their talking points from

24:14

carnal desires and repressing

24:17

the human sex drive . They're

24:20

still touting the same message . It's

24:22

just a little more discreet .

24:26

So it's incredible , matthew , because these

24:28

people sounded like they were really just projecting

24:30

their own guilt and

24:33

their own insecurity and their own

24:35

fear about the religious

24:37

ideas of the day . They're projecting those

24:39

onto the rest of the society

24:41

and you mentioned the lineage of

24:44

the Seventh-day Adventists and they essentially were

24:46

a faction of what was known as

24:48

the Millerite Movement , or

24:51

an offspring of a Millerite Movement , which

24:53

themselves had

24:55

some kind of doomsday

24:57

prophecy that the world was going

25:00

to go an end unless certain

25:02

acts were taken to ensure religious

25:05

purity . The Millerite

25:07

Movement fizzled out because their doomsday didn't

25:09

work and it

25:11

just seemed like the Seventh-day Adventists , their

25:13

kind of reflection or their implementation

25:16

of the same ideas , was to project

25:19

their guilt about their own sin onto

25:21

everyone in the form of vegan and vegetarianism

25:24

.

25:26

Oh , you bring up a very interesting point with guilt

25:28

, and maybe we could get back to that later , because

25:30

I feel like guilt has

25:32

been a tool for

25:35

these movements to try to control

25:37

the population in the aspect of food

25:39

for centuries

25:42

, but specifically the Seventh-day

25:44

Adventist Church . Look , they

25:46

have their own church . So I'm

25:49

libertarian leaning and if these people want

25:51

to abide by a certain

25:54

group of dietary standards

25:56

, all well and good . I

25:58

think the issue most people would have , and what kept

26:01

coming up again and again in my research , is

26:03

how they were able to infiltrate

26:05

the United States government and

26:08

in doing so impose the

26:10

religious beliefs masquerading

26:12

as very

26:14

weak nutrition science that

26:17

would then have an effect on the rest of us

26:19

through first establishing

26:22

the American Dietetic Association . But

26:25

then you

26:27

got to understand each one of these pillars

26:30

is a

26:32

foundation of another step

26:35

and you could really

26:37

make an argument that you could track

26:39

Ellen White , john

26:42

Harvey Kellogg and their complete perversions

26:44

and pseudo-scientific

26:48

realities to the 1992

26:51

dietary guidelines that were

26:53

imposed on every child in

26:55

every public school in America , and

26:58

the effects of that are very difficult

27:01

to

27:04

overestimate , because the

27:07

metabolic illness in America

27:10

is striking . I mean , our kids

27:12

are fat and anybody who grew up in the 90s

27:14

you saw your

27:17

lunches switch from in

27:19

schools , switch from chicken

27:23

fried in lard to

27:25

suddenly seed oils . Cheese

27:27

on pizza was replaced by low

27:30

fat cheese . Our whole milk , which

27:32

came in the red cartons by , started

27:34

by Dwight Eisenhower , was replaced

27:36

by fat free milk , which

27:39

nobody wanted , so they had

27:41

to fill it with sugar , so it became

27:43

chocolate or strawberry milk . And

27:48

it's like these ripple effects , and I see them

27:51

throughout the

27:53

seventh day of the state church as like the head

27:55

, along with

27:57

agro big corporations

27:59

and the agro food industry , and

28:02

then the government , which prefers

28:04

us eating peasant food to

28:07

be blunt , because it masks

28:09

the inflationary theft of

28:11

its citizenry through money printing . I'm

28:22

sorry , max , I can't hear you .

28:26

Sorry . I'm really glad you brought that up , matthew

28:29

, because that's kind of really the crux of the book

28:31

. So we're

28:33

building up to the story , but what

28:36

I think that the Seventh Day Adventists

28:38

, what you talked about , is that these

28:41

dietetics associations

28:43

and this idea of masquerading

28:46

. It's almost like the classic bait and switch

28:48

, which is you go up expecting

28:51

one thing , which is impartial guidance

28:53

about how to eat a healthy

28:55

diet , and you're just getting something

28:58

completely disguised as

29:01

the complete opposite . So it's

29:03

almost been . That's the theme we're talking about

29:05

, for I mean , up

29:08

until now is that people are

29:10

honestly looking for honest guidance

29:12

about how to live a healthy lifestyle

29:14

and they're getting a steaming pile of metaphorically

29:18

speaking advice that is not

29:20

based in

29:22

rigorous science , is based

29:24

in this very unrigorous nutritional

29:27

epidemiology that was influenced by the

29:29

Seventh Day Adventists . So

29:32

we're up to about the 1920s and you talked

29:34

about how Lena Cooper founded the Dietetics

29:37

Association . What is the next

29:39

step ? Because I think

29:41

we're getting close to

29:43

incorporating the food

29:45

industry and we previewed

29:48

how Proctor and Gamble were

29:50

instrumental in forming the American

29:52

Heart Association . But where are we

29:54

up to in terms of this story ?

29:57

Well , another key component

29:59

in this was that at the

30:02

time in the 1920s , america

30:04

was still largely on a gold standard

30:06

. There was a brief period

30:09

where we went kind of off it and on

30:11

it , but up until 1971 , there

30:15

was some restraint on the ability to create

30:17

money because even

30:19

though Americans in 1970 could

30:21

not go and redeem their promissory notes

30:23

for gold as they were promised foreign

30:27

nations could . So the

30:29

amount of money that could be printed we

30:31

still managed to print more money than

30:33

we had gold in our treasury , but

30:37

it was measured

30:39

a little bit more . And

30:42

what happened in the 1970s

30:45

was that when Nixon

30:47

went off the gold standard and the truth is , when

30:49

you go through the research , he kind of was forced

30:52

to . He

30:54

wanted to keep Vietnam going . But

30:56

beyond that , when he looked at the treasury

30:59

he realized that if too many countries had

31:01

brought in their notes

31:04

for gold for redemption , it would expose

31:06

America as a fraud because under

31:08

Lyndon Johnson before him and previous administrations

31:11

they had run up deficits , that

31:13

they had sent out more promissory notes

31:16

than they had gold in their treasury . So all it would take

31:18

was a few countries at one time trying

31:20

to cash in for it to expose the world's

31:22

biggest superpower as a complete fraud . So

31:25

it wasn't so much a

31:27

choice as a necessity

31:29

. And

31:32

once that happened , the

31:35

nation was empowered . Our political leaders were

31:38

in America , were empowered with what could be

31:40

considered , I would consider , the most

31:42

powerful tool in the history of the world

31:44

, which is the fiat money printer

31:46

, because there's these laws

31:48

passed where you have to use this currency and

31:50

they could just print money as

31:53

much as they wanted and pay their own debts or

31:55

for whatever they needed . So there

31:57

was this kind of race that began to

32:00

control inflation

32:02

, the perception of it , because

32:05

if you go through history , you'll see that

32:07

people will tolerate a

32:09

lot of corruption from their politicians

32:11

. They'll tolerate scandal

32:13

. They

32:16

tolerate war , unfortunately , but

32:20

when food prices get too high as we

32:22

saw in Sri Lanka in 2022 , they

32:25

rioted . They threw their leaders out . There's

32:27

been thousands over the past 10 years of food

32:29

riots . In Europe , people

32:31

don't take kindly to it , and in

32:33

America it's a very heated

32:36

political issue . When food prices rise

32:38

, political

32:41

party in power is often ousted

32:43

and the cycle continues

32:46

. So the government's incentive

32:48

is since 1970 , has been

32:50

to . They

32:52

had a choice . They could come clean and say look

32:55

, we have this

32:57

issue , we

32:59

are able to do much with our economy and flood

33:02

it with dollars , but the downside is the

33:04

food that gives you nutrients is going to become

33:06

far more expensive and cost prohibitive . They

33:09

took a different route . They decided to

33:12

alter

33:14

the food supply and through

33:16

nutrition science and through the power of fiat

33:19

, they were able to tilt the scales

33:21

through funding and through subsidies

33:23

of the fiat money printer to

33:25

for

33:30

lack of better words to conduct

33:32

what I view as a 50-year PSIOP

33:34

to convince

33:37

the people that the things that

33:39

our ancestors ate for thousands of

33:41

years is actually dangerous

33:43

and unhealthy . What we should

33:45

be eating are these newly

33:47

manufactured grains that are stripped of nutrients

33:50

and food

33:53

that is generally would be considered peasant food

33:55

in any other age and time . So

34:00

I appreciate I've seen several

34:02

of your podcasts and you do a lot

34:04

to punch through that , but it's difficult

34:06

. And to get back to the Adventists

34:08

, you

34:10

talk about their studies and you're right . So I

34:13

know that most people are living their lives , they're working

34:15

jobs , they're not going through these studies . But

34:17

the difference between clinical

34:20

, double blind gold standard

34:22

studies and epidemiology studies

34:24

? These epidemiology studies are observational

34:27

studies . So people will see me drinking a

34:29

two liter of Coke two years ago or

34:32

10 years ago when I would drink such a thing and

34:34

they'd be like nobody would say a word to me . But

34:37

if I'm eating a steak , I get

34:39

all these studies cited to me . Oh

34:41

, didn't you read , didn't you see ? And

34:43

their epidemiological studies , the

34:46

leading science that

34:49

still comes out to this day comes from a place called Global

34:52

India University in California who

34:54

over the past few years , has gotten $165

34:58

million from the

35:00

federal government , the Fiat money printer

35:02

and they

35:04

use that money to

35:07

always come up with studies that validate

35:09

their religious beliefs , because Global India University

35:11

is run by you

35:13

guessed it the seventh-average state church . So

35:18

it's just this cycle and

35:21

it's really . It's discouraging

35:23

on one end because there is a huge

35:25

tidal wave of misinformation

35:27

from these

35:30

kinds of studies that pollute the

35:33

airwaves , because that's all they need to do . They just

35:35

need to pollute the airwaves enough , where we

35:37

don't know what's going on . We're all kind of confused

35:39

because you can go online right now

35:41

and find a study that validates anything

35:43

and it's difficult . But

35:47

I mean , my kind of rule of thumb is

35:49

on diet

35:51

in general is , if we weren't

35:53

eating it 300 years ago , probably

35:57

not something we should be consuming ?

35:58

Yeah , and

36:01

I don't want to make this a podcast about the

36:04

nuances of epidemiology , but I'll make a quick

36:06

point now here to say

36:09

that nutritional epidemiology is

36:11

a highly on rigorous field and

36:14

the premise of

36:16

a lot of their recommendations are

36:18

these forms of studies , which are

36:20

observational in nature , because it's extremely

36:22

difficult unless you have an institution

36:25

like a mental asylum , a

36:27

mental health hospital or a

36:29

hospital or a resident care home where

36:31

you can strictly control all

36:34

factors and then randomize two

36:36

groups to different diets . It's almost impossible

36:38

to do , and a couple have been done in the past

36:41

, like the Minnesota Coronary Experiment , which

36:43

is something else we can talk

36:45

about , but it's very difficult to perform

36:47

a rigorous dietary intervention . So

36:49

what we have left is observing populations

36:52

over time and then correlating

36:54

their health outcomes to often

36:56

what is a self-reported

36:59

report of what

37:01

they ate . So this is

37:03

fundamentally unable to

37:05

draw a causative claim because , again

37:07

, we haven't . This is not a controlled

37:09

experiment , so fundamentally these

37:11

results are only good for hypothesis

37:14

generation . They're not causal claims . Secondly

37:17

, things like recall bias

37:19

, which is where you're filling out a

37:21

form about what I ate in the past

37:23

year . You have an idea about what you

37:25

think they want you to say , so you

37:28

conveniently forget all the booze

37:30

and all the times that

37:32

you went via the McDonald's drive-through . You

37:34

emit that from your food frequency questionnaire and

37:38

then we've got a highly

37:40

confounded dataset

37:43

and we can't draw rigorous

37:45

conclusions from it . And it

37:48

makes me quite . It

37:51

really fires me up , because if

37:53

we're approaching this idea of health optimization

37:55

rigorously and like an engineer

37:58

the same engineer who would put

38:00

an airplane in the sky and

38:02

is responsible for hundreds of people's lives If they

38:04

looked at the quality and the

38:06

methodology of nutritional epidemiology

38:09

, they would laugh in your face . They

38:11

would laugh in these people's faces because it's

38:13

not worth . I will say it's not worth

38:15

the paper it's printed on . So

38:18

what that means is that , as

38:21

you've said so elegantly , matthew

38:23

, is that you had decades

38:25

of essentially religiously

38:28

influenced data

38:31

. That is simply cheerleading for religious

38:34

bias , that a preconceived

38:36

notion that they've already have

38:38

, and that is

38:40

a lot of what is coming out of biased

38:42

institutions like Loma Linda

38:44

. So all that to

38:47

say that this

38:49

is the part of this , what

38:53

you call the sigh of what looks like a disinformation

38:56

campaign that average people

38:58

have to weigh

39:00

their way through . And I want to take it

39:02

back to the point you made about inflation , because

39:05

I really want to

39:07

spell it out for my listeners . I

39:09

guess how would you define inflation

39:12

, because I think that's an important

39:14

question before we go any

39:16

further , and you made that point in

39:18

your book . How have the definition changed

39:20

.

39:24

It's ridiculous . Inflation obviously

39:26

comes from the Latin inflation to

39:29

expand , and inflation

39:31

in the monetary sense has

39:33

traditionally been known to as an

39:36

expansion of the money supply . Yet

39:41

this has changed . Today

39:44

, inflation is defined

39:47

by modern economists and Keynesians

39:49

as Okay

39:53

. I actually I'm going to draw a blank on

39:56

this because the definition changes

39:58

so frequently . I know one of my

40:00

favorite ones was recently where it

40:02

involved the weather , weather

40:04

situations . So

40:07

let me define it to be

40:09

simplistic For a modern-day

40:11

Keynesian economist . The

40:14

inflation definition changes periodically

40:16

, but the one thing that is never

40:18

responsible for inflation is an expansion

40:20

of the monetary supply . That's

40:23

the only thing . There's Taylor

40:25

Swift , there was an article Taylor Swift responsible

40:27

for inflation in Brazil . The

40:30

list goes on and on . When

40:33

they change the words and definitions , I mean that

40:35

should draw a serious red

40:37

flag , because

40:40

mathematics should not be a soft science

40:42

. It's numbers . We're

40:44

dealing with numbers .

40:46

Yeah , yeah . And

40:48

so what you've said and again I'll package it up

40:51

for everyone is that in 1971

40:53

, the US were in a financial

40:55

problem and they essentially

40:57

had expanded

41:00

the money supply beyond which

41:02

the amount of gold that they had was

41:04

able to back that up . So they had

41:06

all these people who had claims against

41:08

them that they essentially weren't able

41:11

to satisfy . So what President

41:13

Nixon did was effectively defaulted

41:16

by removing the backing

41:18

or what was left of the gold backing

41:21

of the US dollar

41:23

, if I've interpreted what you wrote correctly

41:25

. And

41:28

as part of that , all the prices in

41:30

the economy rose , and

41:32

they rose for all kinds of things because , as

41:35

you explained in your book , if you've got more

41:37

paper chasing , the same amount

41:39

of goods , or goods that are only increasing

41:41

5% a year in line

41:44

with improvements in technology

41:46

and production , then obviously it's

41:48

a simple mathematical problem then you're

41:50

going to get rise in the price of these goods . So

41:52

what the US government did at the time

41:54

was , rather than admit that

41:56

hey guys , we messed up

41:59

and unfortunately now

42:01

your steak and your eggs is going to be

42:03

more expensive Instead

42:05

of admitting that , they essentially

42:08

told everyone that the steak and eggs

42:10

wasn't good for you .

42:12

Yeah , that's exactly right , and I

42:14

know this sounds completely insane

42:17

to a lot of your audience I'm sure it does but

42:20

it was really . You've

42:23

got to think of it like this . So before 1970

42:25

, there was the Seventh Day Adventist

42:27

Church and they were pushing this , and

42:30

corporations were funding nutrition signs

42:32

and they were pushing this . Still in 1970

42:35

, the majority of people ate

42:37

a lot of meat and they ate a lot of eggs

42:39

, and they weren't scared of saturated fat despite

42:42

these two forces . But when

42:45

the separation between the

42:47

dollar and gold occurred and

42:50

the printing of dollars just continued

42:52

and continued , at that point

42:54

a Titanic

42:57

shift occurred , because the fiat money

42:59

printer was then weaponized . And the fiat

43:01

money printer you can't

43:03

just think of it as a machine that spits out dollars . What

43:05

it really is is the

43:07

wealth and work

43:10

and productivity of the entire nation , and

43:13

actually you could argue that it's the entire

43:15

world , because the dollar is

43:17

the primary currency that

43:19

the other currencies around the world often pinned

43:21

themselves to . So instead

43:23

of just saying , yeah , I mean look , guys , things

43:26

are going to go up , but boy , we have a lot of

43:28

money to throw around . They

43:30

did tilt . They leaned

43:32

into corporate

43:35

and industry , which benefits

43:37

and profits far more off

43:40

of Doritos than they do off

43:42

me and because they can

43:44

print them like fiat dollars at scale . And

43:48

then you have the religious groups , including

43:50

now it's like there's been

43:52

a weird union between the

43:54

church or something I mean this is church and environmentalist

43:57

groups and animal rights groups

43:59

. So that kind of is this interesting

44:02

coalition for different

44:04

reasons , but they all have the same end

44:07

goals , which is that we eat less

44:09

meat . So I

44:11

guess , like what you're , you

44:14

know , we talk about the studies , what you

44:16

should really look at the studies as more

44:19

of a press release , these

44:21

observational studies , because they're

44:23

either funded by corporations I

44:26

mean , if you look at the USDA

44:29

, funding is 11 to one

44:31

from corporations

44:34

as opposed to taxpayers , and that's

44:36

intentional . I mean it's all intentional . If you look

44:38

at the dietary guidelines

44:40

, nina Tichol was did great work on this and

44:43

uncovered that she's the author

44:45

of Big Fat Surprise . They uncovered

44:47

that . She uncovered that 95% of

44:49

them have corporate ties . So it's

44:51

not none of this is by accident . It's

44:54

not like these groups just kind

44:56

of screwed things up . No , they all have extreme

44:58

vested interests and they didn't have to meet

45:00

in a dark , smoky room to make this all happen

45:02

. It's just all in their interests , so

45:05

it naturally all

45:07

aligns .

45:08

Yeah , and if we think about it this way , and

45:11

the meat or nutrient dense food

45:13

which is fully grass-fed

45:15

beef , pastured eggs , full

45:20

cream , maybe even raw dairy , all

45:22

these unprocessed whole foods that

45:24

get grown by a local

45:26

farmer , sold in the

45:28

local market five kilometers

45:31

from where it was grown , there's no profit

45:33

in that . There's no way that corporations

45:36

can profit off a highly decentralized

45:38

food system in that , as

45:40

that exists . But they can profit

45:43

from growing corn , from

45:45

the fertilizers and

45:47

the herbicides needed to grow corn

45:50

, from the machinery used to sow

45:52

a cornfield , from the process of

45:54

turning that corn into high fructose

45:56

corn syrup , then selling that as

45:58

a soda or as Doritos , the

46:01

same with sugar , the same with canola or

46:03

soy . So that's

46:05

where the profit is and I made the point I

46:07

just released my episode with Texas Slim is

46:09

that nothing really in my mind encapsulates

46:12

the difference in what

46:14

are so-called fiat foods or these

46:16

false commodities as

46:19

much as a jar of

46:21

grass-fed organic ghee , which goes

46:23

for probably 20

46:26

Australian dollars or 14

46:28

US dollars , and a bottle of

46:30

canola or

46:32

sunflower oil , which goes for $4

46:35

. And the energy calorie

46:37

equivalent they're equivalent in , perhaps

46:39

, but the order of magnitude of the price

46:42

difference between those two products reflects

46:44

this massive disconnect

46:46

and that price kind

46:48

of difference that

46:51

these institutions , essentially

46:53

the US government , were trying to

46:55

make up by the dietary recommendations

46:58

, because they were essentially trying to make that $4

47:01

canola oil bottle equivalent

47:04

to that $20

47:06

jar of grass-fed ghee by kind

47:08

of diluting these signals

47:11

, as we've just discussed

47:13

. And I really see

47:15

the animal meat and these unprocessed

47:17

foods that I just mentioned . They're

47:20

the most convenient punching bag and

47:23

we've talked at length about the SDAs , the

47:25

Sanctae Ventus , but it's also the food

47:27

industry , it's also the

47:30

actual agricultural lobby of

47:32

the corn and the soy growers . It's

47:35

the environmentalists that you talk about

47:37

I believe his

47:39

name is Paul Ehrlich and they're the kind of idea

47:42

that the world is gonna end . We're

47:44

gonna reach peak oil , then we're gonna reach . There's

47:47

always another catastrophe on an environmental point

47:49

of view that distracts from the more acute

47:51

environmental problems . And then there was

47:53

Ansel Keys and the American Heart Association

47:56

. So it's almost like everyone is punching

47:58

on to

48:00

the unprocessed food and the wholesome , nutrient-dense

48:02

food because it's all in their interest . As

48:04

you mentioned , there's no smoky room here . There's

48:07

no smoky room with cigars and conspiracies

48:09

. There's only a convergence of

48:11

interests that all profit

48:14

or benefit from punching

48:17

the bag . That's red meat and

48:19

saturated fat .

48:21

And you have a guy like John Yudkin , who

48:23

was a fantastic nutritionist

48:27

in the 50s and the

48:29

60s and early 70s , who

48:31

was from London . He did really

48:34

good work in the field of nutrition and discovered

48:36

that , look , it looks like there's a far higher

48:39

correlation to sugar and

48:41

metabolic disease and

48:43

then meat . So what

48:46

happened to John Yudkin ? He lost his

48:48

funding , he was destroyed . His reputation

48:50

was he was laughed out of academia

48:53

and he was

48:56

once very prominent and kind of died in

48:58

relative obscurity . And that

49:00

is the power of fiat

49:02

, largely because what they were

49:04

able to do was just

49:07

flood the zone with money , flood

49:09

Ansel Keys and a lot of these

49:13

so-called nutrition magazines

49:16

that would come out and these nutrition

49:18

the

49:21

data compilations . It's

49:23

very , very , very manipulated

49:26

on behalf of industry and in

49:29

one example , the New York Times did some great work

49:31

and I think it was 2016 . They revealed

49:33

that one of the major studies that came

49:35

out that told us that saturated

49:39

fat was bad and sugar was

49:41

good was paid

49:44

for and manipulated by the sugar industry , and Ansel

49:46

Keys was one of the scientists , I

49:48

mean who did that and it . But

49:50

I mean this wasn't just something that happened back

49:52

then . It continues to this day . We have this horrible

49:56

human being , dr Fatima Sanford , who

50:00

appeared on 60 minutes

50:02

in January of this year and

50:06

on a segment on Osempic , which

50:09

is a drug that you inject

50:11

monthly for weight loss , and she said

50:13

the science is settled

50:16

and people no

50:18

longer control obesity

50:21

. It's out of their control . It's a brain

50:23

disease , so

50:25

your lifestyle and your habits can't

50:27

do anything to

50:31

affect your health outcomes . The

50:35

segment didn't mention that she was getting

50:37

how much she was getting paid from Osempic

50:39

. She was . She worked for

50:41

them as a consultant , but I

50:44

mean , it's so many interests

50:47

colliding at

50:49

the same time . And oh , by

50:51

the way , she's now on the dietary

50:53

guidelines too . So , like Dr Fatima

50:55

Sanford , who is telling

50:58

the American public that it's not your fault

51:00

that you're fat , there's and there's

51:02

nothing you could do about it because it's a genetic brain disease

51:05

, is

51:07

getting paid for very

51:09

conveniently by the drug that

51:12

takes care of it . And why ? Part of

51:14

the reason I think this is so disturbing and you talked about

51:16

the guilt from the church is that

51:18

I , just in my worldview

51:21

, I find that there's very

51:23

few things that are more vile than

51:26

to tell a human being

51:28

that they're not in control over

51:30

the most fundamental part of their existence

51:33

, which is health , like the way

51:35

they feel who they are . But

51:37

that's what we're confronting and that's what's being

51:39

confronted now . It's why I appreciate

51:42

that you're out there getting

51:45

your message out .

51:47

Yeah , a couple points and

51:49

I'll just correct you . Osempic or semaglutide

51:52

is a weekly injection and

51:54

it's a GOP1 agonist that obviously

51:56

was developed initially as a type 2

51:58

diabetes medication .

52:00

And it's since Is that a weekly ?

52:02

Yeah , it's a weekly . Yeah , it's weekly . Oh that's

52:04

right , yeah , but it's since

52:06

expanded to weight loss , and

52:09

what you talk about is I'm

52:12

glad you have is . It is critical

52:14

, because when you convince

52:16

someone that their problem is not

52:18

able to be changed by their own lifestyle , this

52:21

defeatist mindset , then , yes , people

52:24

, the next logical conclusion

52:26

is that you have to take this medication

52:29

that we're gonna make for you . It

52:31

really makes people reliant on it . And again

52:34

, I talked to Texas Slim about this and he said the exact

52:36

same thing . And

52:38

I made the point . These people don't

52:40

have a brain disease , they're in the

52:42

wrong environment , they're eating processed foods , they're

52:45

addicted to technology , they're not

52:47

getting a regulated

52:50

circadian rhythm . And it's

52:52

not the first time , and I'll

52:55

make a little quick detour about

52:58

circadian health , because there's a key pathway

53:00

in the brain called , or a gene product

53:02

called , pro-opioamelanocortin

53:04

, and it is one of the key regulators

53:07

for regulating body composition

53:09

, body weight and appetite , and

53:11

the various pharma companies have invented

53:14

a medication that specifically targets

53:16

this pathway in an attempt to

53:18

sell a drug that will help people lose weight . The

53:21

thing is , you can make this product

53:23

, or that potentially the same pathway

53:25

in your brain by simply getting into ultraviolet light

53:27

, getting in the sun . That's

53:29

why the sun and circadian regulation is such

53:31

a potent weight loss tool and helps

53:35

with that . But when you tell people that

53:37

they have a disease

53:39

whether that's obesity , it's genetic

53:41

then you're really disempowering them

53:43

from doing anything about

53:45

it and I agree with you completely because

53:47

it's very insidious . So

53:51

I actually highlighted part of your book

53:53

and I'm really glad you brought it up because

53:55

I wanna hammer this point home . You

53:57

wrote foundational to an individual's

54:00

self-ownership is the perception that they control

54:02

their own health , that through the foods

54:04

they eat they can grow strong , that in

54:06

illness they're equipped with tools necessary

54:08

to heal . Foundational to fiat

54:10

is human dependence , surviving

54:12

off a system that slowly drains the wealth

54:15

of the many to benefit the few . That

54:18

the expertise or authority serves

54:20

as a substitute for one's own decision-making

54:23

. Consequently , the role of personal

54:25

responsibility as the primary driver of

54:27

obesity and chronic and

54:29

related chronic diseases has been sidelined

54:31

, replaced by assurances from fiat

54:33

health authorities that negative health

54:35

outcomes are due to circumstances

54:37

outside of one's control

54:39

. So we were on the same wavelength

54:42

when I highlighted that passage , matthew , because isn't

54:45

it so applicable to what we're discussing right

54:47

now ?

54:48

It is and I

54:51

can't emphasize enough just how important

54:53

I think it is , I think , to

54:55

backtrack a little bit . I think for me

54:57

, covid changed a lot of my

54:59

perceptions because I want I

55:02

look at the world through the lens of my

55:04

own perceptions , obviously , and I don't

55:06

think I'm a horrible person and so

55:08

I never think that people are bad

55:11

. I always assume like

55:14

good intentions on others

55:16

, but the

55:18

reality is I

55:20

personally in the past , and I know

55:23

I still probably do too much to

55:25

degree , but I've too

55:27

many people outsource their

55:30

decision-making to

55:32

credentialed authorities based on trust

55:34

and these

55:37

institutions are have

55:40

betrayed us like severely . You

55:44

have a lot of our modern day

55:46

nutrition science is built

55:49

foundationally from Harvard School of Medicine

55:51

, which was run by Dr

55:53

Fred Rickstair , who was just a

55:55

complete shill of industry . In

55:57

his book he bragged about coming

55:59

up with $2 million from Kellogg's

56:01

here and a million here , while

56:04

he's touting sugar as a

56:06

healthy between meal snacks

56:08

and people

56:10

still believe this . I mean people will still talk about

56:13

Dr Fred Rickstair's studies

56:15

and to justify

56:17

their

56:19

behaviors , which oftentimes

56:22

are the result of being addicted to flour

56:24

or sugar . And I think I know

56:26

hisTSADcom . He was the leading

56:28

health nutritionist for years

56:31

and years and this guy , he had all these credentials

56:33

. I mean , it's Harvard , so you give

56:35

people a pass . I understand why

56:37

a lot of people believe that

56:40

sugar isn't really that bad . It's

56:43

kind of okay . You can have some

56:46

sugar here and there every day . I

56:49

think he said Coke was very healthy for

56:51

you . But

56:54

once we look at ourselves within nature

56:57

and this was a big turning point for

56:59

me , because I'm not a nutritionist but

57:02

I do recognize that I'm part of nature

57:04

and part of a world and I'm

57:07

not outside of that and once you see

57:09

that and that you

57:11

don't need to outsource your decision making to anybody

57:13

, it's all right there and

57:15

it's actually crudely obvious what

57:18

we should be doing and what we should be eating

57:20

.

57:22

Yeah , and as far as I'm concerned , anyone

57:24

who's taken money from industry , no

57:26

matter what that industry is , is

57:28

tainted in their view

57:31

and their opinion and

57:33

it's simply not able to be relied upon to

57:36

give an impartial opinion

57:38

. I think it's that simple

57:40

. And you mentioned

57:42

Frederick Stair and the

57:45

Harvard School of Public Health . If

57:49

my interpretation or my reading of some

57:51

of the missives that they put out , it

57:53

just reads like a cheerleading for

57:56

industry , essentially

57:58

Still recommending consumption of

58:01

canola and soy and

58:04

refined sources of

58:06

linoleic acid-rich , refined

58:08

sources of omega-6

58:10

polyunsaturated fatty acids . One

58:14

can go to YouTube

58:16

and see the process that involved

58:18

in extracting these

58:20

and the fact that no one was eating them until

58:23

100 years ago , and then it

58:25

doesn't take a PhD to realize that

58:27

that's not fit for human consumption . So

58:29

the fact that such

58:32

a esteemed and prestigious body

58:34

has been essentially

58:36

endorsing processed food consumption is

58:40

exactly what you said in terms of betraying

58:43

the trust of lay people who

58:45

don't either have perhaps

58:47

even the intelligence or just the time to

58:50

invest in researching what they

58:52

should be eating . And it comes back

58:54

to this idea of being essentially shortchanged

58:57

or bait-and-switched because there's

58:59

faith put in these institutions to

59:01

inform

59:03

people of the correct , healthy dietary choice

59:06

. And just look at

59:08

the statistics . In Australia

59:11

, two-thirds of Australian adults

59:13

and a quarter of Australian children

59:15

are currently either overweight or obese . If

59:18

you graph it from the 1980s

59:20

onwards , it's just up and to the right . And

59:23

once I plotted the Australian dietary

59:26

guidelines on the same graph , there's

59:28

no attenuation of

59:30

those curve with those successive

59:33

dietary guidelines and

59:35

in fact there's no . It's just continues to

59:37

go up and the right . So

59:40

obviously diet is a key part of why

59:42

everyone is getting that fat and

59:47

it's clearly not working . So

59:50

before we go a little bit further , I just wanted you to talk

59:53

a little bit more about what happened exactly

59:55

in the aftermath of 1971 , because

59:58

there

1:00:00

was something happened with regards to one

1:00:02

of the agricultural secretaries that you wrote in your

1:00:04

book that I think really set

1:00:08

you America on this trajectory of

1:00:10

cropping and monocropping , which later

1:00:13

spills down into processed foods .

1:00:16

So the politicians weren't unaware of this problem

1:00:18

. They understood that going

1:00:21

off of the gold standard

1:00:23

would result in an

1:00:25

inevitable rise in the

1:00:27

price of the nutrients that we need to

1:00:29

live and this would cause

1:00:31

this would become a political liability

1:00:33

. So Nixon

1:00:36

had a plan and

1:00:38

that was to got

1:00:41

this guy named Earl Butts , as you mentioned , the Secretary

1:00:43

of Agriculture , and he instructed

1:00:45

Butts to make sure

1:00:48

that people had enough food . Because another

1:00:50

factor I want to throw in there was that in the

1:00:52

early 1970s

1:00:55

it wasn't global

1:00:58

warming that people were worried about , that wasn't

1:01:00

the crisis of that moment , it was actually overpopulation

1:01:03

. And the book called Silent

1:01:05

Spring came out and there was another

1:01:07

book about that

1:01:09

environmental book that basically posited

1:01:11

this idea that we were going to run out of food Too

1:01:14

many people , not enough food . So

1:01:17

he sent Earl Butts out to

1:01:19

. Earl

1:01:22

Butts had a slogan go

1:01:24

big or go home , and

1:01:28

in it he incentivized

1:01:30

America's farmers , which at that point were

1:01:33

diverse . There weren't these giant agro-farmers

1:01:36

everywhere . That wasn't the American

1:01:38

farming community . It was broken up by smaller

1:01:40

farms . He

1:01:45

incentivized the consolidation of all these

1:01:47

farms and he wanted corn

1:01:49

everywhere . So

1:01:52

that was incentivized through subsidies . And

1:01:56

why the fiat part is important ? Because

1:01:58

pre-1971

1:02:01

, if you wanted to spend $8

1:02:03

trillion on corn , it had

1:02:05

to be correlated with the gold in your treasury . So

1:02:08

you could only do that by raising

1:02:12

taxes and going

1:02:14

to the people and saying , look , the corn industry

1:02:16

needs our money . Here's our reasons . We

1:02:18

have to raise our taxes or

1:02:21

selling bonds like corn bonds , I guess

1:02:23

could be a thing , but there was no other way

1:02:25

to get the money . You had

1:02:27

to appeal to the people

1:02:29

, you had to have their consent . Fiat

1:02:33

removed that . You could just print it and

1:02:36

, through the printing of the dollar , confiscate

1:02:39

a portion of every single person's

1:02:41

wealth who held the dollar . No

1:02:44

permission , no vote . And

1:02:47

what happened was corn became so cheap

1:02:49

and it wasn't just corn , it was soy

1:02:51

and sugar as well , but corn was the main one . It

1:02:53

became so cheap that everything

1:02:57

in our economy

1:02:59

began to become almost part

1:03:01

of corn , to the extent

1:03:03

that it replaced

1:03:05

sugar . If you go to other countries go

1:03:08

to Mexico Coke is

1:03:10

made with sugar . Here it's made with

1:03:12

corn Because American policy

1:03:14

, through Fiat , has subsidized

1:03:16

corn to such an extent

1:03:18

. All the leftover corn is either

1:03:20

used as ethanol or high

1:03:22

fructose corn syrup , which we were

1:03:25

told was healthy when that came out , which is

1:03:27

slightly worse than sugar . They're both very

1:03:29

bad . But

1:03:31

that changed a lot because

1:03:37

grocery stores began substituting

1:03:39

out ingredients for these subsidized

1:03:41

foods . They began subsidizing healthier

1:03:44

ingredients for soy lecithin

1:03:46

, for high fructose

1:03:48

corn syrup . So if you go in the Middle Isles of your grocery

1:03:50

store in America , you find a lot of obese

1:03:52

people in scooters

1:03:55

pushing carts that

1:03:57

are products that

1:04:00

are essentially soy corn

1:04:02

flour and then coloring

1:04:05

in additives mixed in different combinations

1:04:07

. It's like 90% of what you see in the Middle Isles of

1:04:09

the grocery store . You could directly

1:04:11

tie that back to the subsidization

1:04:15

of these industries , which then creates

1:04:17

these political

1:04:20

interest groups who begin funding

1:04:22

politicians , and it's this cycle

1:04:24

that grows more powerful

1:04:26

, more powerful . So anytime presidential

1:04:29

candidates campaign in Iowa and

1:04:32

no one dared talk about removing

1:04:34

corn subsidies because

1:04:37

they'll lose the funding of their

1:04:39

campaign and all hell breaks loose

1:04:41

. So

1:04:43

it's very what that period

1:04:45

you talk about was very pivotal and ongoing

1:04:48

. It's continuing , but at a much

1:04:50

greater rate . But there's so much noise

1:04:53

in the world that it's hard

1:04:55

to focus on how much of

1:04:57

the . I guarantee you that 19

1:04:59

out of 20 people have no idea how

1:05:02

much , to what extent , corn is being subsidized

1:05:04

. But that is their money Because

1:05:07

, just because it isn't directly taxed from

1:05:09

them . The taxation of our money

1:05:11

is only a small part of what's taken from the

1:05:13

American populace , the main taxation

1:05:16

in Australia . You're connected to the dollar

1:05:18

, so your currency we take from you

1:05:20

too . The main part of it is through

1:05:23

the inflationary theft of

1:05:25

the purchasing power of our dollars

1:05:27

. Each time they double our money supply

1:05:29

.

1:05:29

Yeah , and

1:05:32

I think about , or a good way to think

1:05:34

about , the effect that this inflation

1:05:36

is happening having

1:05:38

, is imagine if you're a shop

1:05:40

owner and you're a restaurant

1:05:42

owner and you're making you

1:05:45

sell scrambled eggs with

1:05:48

bacon for your cafe and

1:05:50

then 1971 comes around and

1:05:53

the price of everything has increased . As

1:05:55

that cafe owner , you've got a couple of options . You can

1:05:57

either increase your prices and

1:06:00

keep the quality of that meal the

1:06:02

same and still serve four

1:06:04

pastured eggs and three

1:06:06

slices of pastured bacon and

1:06:09

increase the price from $10 to $15

1:06:12

. You could keep the price the same

1:06:14

and instead either use

1:06:16

less eggs so your meal has shrunk

1:06:18

from four eggs down to

1:06:20

three or two and three slices of bacon

1:06:23

to two slices of bacon , or you could

1:06:25

substitute fully

1:06:27

grass-fed , soy-free eggs

1:06:29

for cage eggs , or you could

1:06:31

substitute the pastured bacon

1:06:34

for confined fed pork

1:06:36

. So

1:06:40

it's incredible to think about the insidious

1:06:42

effect that this inflation has

1:06:44

had and still is having

1:06:47

on food

1:06:49

and the economy . When every

1:06:51

single producer or every single

1:06:54

restaurateur or anyone else has to

1:06:56

make that hard decision in the face of rising prices

1:06:58

. What to do and what

1:07:00

you've described and I think what we're hoping

1:07:02

to help them listen and understand is

1:07:06

the dietary recommendations . And

1:07:08

the commodities these

1:07:11

false commodities , these fiat

1:07:13

foods that you and Texas

1:07:15

talk about are a result

1:07:17

they're a downstream effect

1:07:20

of the watering down of

1:07:23

the food supply in response to these rising

1:07:25

prices that were triggered in

1:07:27

the 1970s , if

1:07:29

I've interpreted your book correctly .

1:07:32

Yeah , yeah , totally , and that's why I

1:07:35

dedicate the last three chapters to how

1:07:37

Bitcoin , in particular , fixes

1:07:40

this and I'm not an economist

1:07:42

and Bitcoin isn't necessarily the only

1:07:44

thing that can fix it . But what would

1:07:46

is a hard currency , and that's because it would

1:07:48

remove the distortions Fiat

1:07:50

creates , kind of this bizarro world where

1:07:54

everything's upside down . For instance , in 1910

1:07:56

, if you were to take a $10 gold

1:07:58

coin and bury it for

1:08:01

five years , five years later , with

1:08:03

reasonable explanation could

1:08:05

expect that that $5 coin would

1:08:07

be able to purchase more eggs and

1:08:10

beef than it did when we put it in . The

1:08:12

reverse is true . So the advice

1:08:14

your grandmother gives you to save

1:08:16

your money , to be prudent in fiat

1:08:18

, is actually terrible advice , because your

1:08:20

money , in terms of purchasing power

1:08:22

, is devaluing by every day . We've

1:08:26

lost 99% of our purchasing power over

1:08:28

the past 75 years . That's

1:08:30

ridiculous . So what

1:08:32

it incentivizes is debt , a

1:08:38

hard currency . Even if it were gold , I think Bitcoin's

1:08:40

a lot better . But a hard currency attached

1:08:44

to the dollar would change it because

1:08:46

the distortions created

1:08:48

by fiat would no longer be incentivized

1:08:51

. There would be no need to obfuscate

1:08:54

the price , the rising cost of food , because

1:08:57

it wouldn't be going

1:08:59

up , and there would be no need

1:09:01

to fund corn and soy , because

1:09:04

we wouldn't need an America , an alternative

1:09:06

diet , and there would be no need

1:09:08

to be funding global and the university to come up

1:09:10

with bullshit studies that completely

1:09:12

talk about how meat causes diabetes

1:09:15

. Meat doesn't have fructose . That's

1:09:17

a ridiculous concept , but

1:09:19

their interest isn't . They're

1:09:22

not what I've learned and

1:09:24

I've talked to some of the . The conversations

1:09:26

didn't go well . I talked to some of the observational

1:09:28

conductors of these studies

1:09:30

. Their goal is never to

1:09:33

appeal to people like you who could read the studies

1:09:35

and understand them . So this sûr

1:09:37

swinging point is not necessarily a focus of interest in

1:09:39

the media , and they're very good at it . How

1:09:41

many did you see the headline that Meet Now

1:09:43

Caused as Diabetes ? It's

1:09:45

been everywhere .

1:09:47

Yeah , it's ridiculous and it's what

1:09:49

we talked about . It's essentially just cheerleading

1:09:51

for a pre-decided

1:09:54

or pre-ordained corporate

1:09:56

strategy , a bottom line strategy that's

1:09:58

profitable for the interest groups . But I

1:10:01

want to really go back to that point that you

1:10:03

raised about the price

1:10:05

changes with if you use

1:10:08

the opposite of this fiat system . And

1:10:11

what you said is that if

1:10:13

you had a fixed amount , a money

1:10:15

that was fixed in units , then

1:10:19

over time the value or the purchasing

1:10:21

power of that money would go up . So rather

1:10:23

than being able to buy less steak over time

1:10:25

, you'd actually be able to buy more

1:10:27

steak over time . And

1:10:29

earlier in the book you really gave

1:10:32

a really good idea about the

1:10:34

debasement or the change in money

1:10:36

after 1971 , because

1:10:38

you compared the kilograms of

1:10:40

soloin beef that you could purchase

1:10:43

and pre-impose that inflation

1:10:45

moment and the amount of

1:10:47

beef that you could buy has gone down dramatically . And

1:10:50

I would hazard a guess that not only the

1:10:52

amount of beef has gone down but probably

1:10:54

the quality of that beef that you're buying for

1:10:56

the same amount would also have gone down . And maybe

1:10:59

it's got more antibiotics , Maybe it wasn't fully past your

1:11:01

rates . But it's incredible to think

1:11:03

that if you had an opposite

1:11:05

system , that people if

1:11:08

, over time , would be able to buy instead

1:11:10

of four pastured eggs and

1:11:12

three slices of bacon on that breakfast

1:11:15

meal maybe the same amount of money that also

1:11:17

be able to get a slice

1:11:20

of sausage in addition , so

1:11:22

the meal could actually get bigger for

1:11:25

the same price over time , rather than

1:11:27

getting smaller or getting diluted . I

1:11:29

mean that is a fascinating

1:11:32

concept that I think was

1:11:34

foreign to everyone these days because we don't

1:11:36

live in a hard money

1:11:38

, fixed money supply system that you've just

1:11:41

described .

1:11:42

In a fiat system in America

1:11:44

, you don't own your dollar . Okay , so

1:11:47

you're holding the physical piece of paper , but

1:11:49

you don't own its value because

1:11:51

there's somebody else down the

1:11:53

street with a printing machine who

1:11:55

prints as much of it as they want

1:11:58

and doesn't have to consult you . Because

1:12:00

of that , you have no control over the value of your

1:12:02

dollar . So the ownership , in essence

1:12:04

, of your productivity is a product

1:12:07

largely of the

1:12:09

state . So while our

1:12:11

leaders are consistently

1:12:14

perpetuating this myth and this propaganda

1:12:16

to the American people that we're becoming richer

1:12:18

based on paper accumulation

1:12:21

of their fiat wealth , in

1:12:23

reality we're becoming poorer and

1:12:26

less able to afford the foods that

1:12:28

humans thrive on . So , in

1:12:31

essence , of food is the way they look

1:12:33

at it . We live in a time of abundance , they tell

1:12:35

us , but because fiat distorts

1:12:37

everything to such an extent and creates this bizarre

1:12:40

world we live in today , the reality

1:12:42

is worse . It's like in the 1500s

1:12:46

, when obesity was synonymous

1:12:49

with affluence and wealth

1:12:51

. Now it's really a sign

1:12:53

of poverty . It's

1:12:56

the sign of somebody who's depleted of nutrients

1:12:59

Because they've been following

1:13:01

the dietary guidelines of America and

1:13:04

getting their 8211

1:13:07

servings of grains a day . That's

1:13:09

what our government tells us to do . That's

1:13:11

a recipe for metabolic destruction and again

1:13:14

I wish I could say that it's

1:13:17

just some kind of sad oops

1:13:19

of history , but it was intentional

1:13:21

. Every step of the way , people

1:13:23

profited and the product in America

1:13:26

is the human misery that

1:13:28

comes out of it all . It's

1:13:31

not very profitable for us to be

1:13:33

healthy , to have self autonomy

1:13:36

over ourselves , to not be in

1:13:38

the medical system , consistently believing

1:13:41

that everything wrong with us is a lack

1:13:43

of a medical product . What

1:13:45

they want which is what they want to convince

1:13:47

us of , to live independently

1:13:50

and to eat as many nutrients

1:13:52

as we can is

1:13:55

a recipe on their end for

1:13:57

going bankrupt and losing a market .

1:14:00

Yeah , and on

1:14:03

that point of the

1:14:05

kind of inflation and the

1:14:07

red meat , I think that potentially

1:14:10

, the way you've just described

1:14:12

it , or previously that the inflation

1:14:14

kind of definition is always getting changed . I

1:14:17

think that if you have maybe a kilogram

1:14:20

of fully grass-fed ribeye

1:14:23

steak , that should be the real

1:14:25

marker of inflation . Maybe

1:14:27

you don't need to use anything else . It's

1:14:29

just like how much does

1:14:31

it cost to buy a kilogram of

1:14:34

fully grass-fed ribeye ? And benchmark

1:14:36

income , benchmark all these other economic

1:14:39

metrics against that one and then you

1:14:41

can see truly if

1:14:43

the standard of living in the society

1:14:45

is rising or falling . And I think

1:14:47

by that metric it has definitely fallen , despite

1:14:50

what political leaders might have told us

1:14:52

. I want to wrap us up

1:14:54

on that point that you made

1:14:56

about the human face , because it

1:14:58

reminded me of a patient that

1:15:01

a colleague of mine saw who for

1:15:04

diabetes reversal and he was in his late

1:15:06

60s and he'd

1:15:08

followed the advice to get rid of grains

1:15:10

, to get rid of seed oils , to stop eating sugar

1:15:12

, and he

1:15:14

was well on the pathway to losing his

1:15:16

visceral fat , regaining

1:15:18

his metabolic health , coming off these diabetic

1:15:20

medications . And

1:15:23

my colleague recounted this story to

1:15:25

me and the patient said to him

1:15:27

it's good , but

1:15:29

it's only 20 years too late . And

1:15:32

it was deep , because it

1:15:35

really spoke to this feeling

1:15:37

of the fact

1:15:39

that this is a bit of pill

1:15:41

to swallow , because , yeah , I'm healing , but

1:15:44

this person was so far down their health journey

1:15:46

in a preventable and avoidable way . Had

1:15:49

they received the correct species-appropriate

1:15:53

dietary advice low carbohydrate

1:15:55

, plenty of red meat and healthy

1:15:57

animal fat 20 years earlier , this

1:16:00

could have all been averted . So I

1:16:03

think that's a great way

1:16:05

to put a human face on this problem

1:16:08

this hour and a half that we've talked

1:16:10

, which is there are real people on

1:16:12

the other end of these economic decisions

1:16:14

to remove the US

1:16:16

from the gold standard . All this

1:16:18

attempt at obfuscating inflation has

1:16:21

real human consequences and

1:16:23

real human victims .

1:16:25

I think , yeah , that's heartbreaking and yeah

1:16:28

, I have a lot of compassion for

1:16:31

these people because they've been lied to

1:16:33

and they've been lied to for decades

1:16:35

now . But I have

1:16:37

hope that we're

1:16:39

kind of breaking through the matrix One

1:16:42

crack at a time , with podcasts like yours

1:16:44

and Saifidin and Dr Sean Baker

1:16:46

and Nina Tichels . There's a small army

1:16:48

coming and it's

1:16:50

beautiful to watch . It's

1:16:53

in this very beginning stages right now , but

1:16:57

it's of again . It kind of comes

1:16:59

back to self-autonomy and people taking

1:17:01

their lives back . So

1:17:03

, and I appreciate you having me on and

1:17:05

letting me share this time with you- yeah

1:17:08

, fantastic Matthew .

1:17:09

Let us know where the listeners can

1:17:11

buy your book and where they can follow

1:17:13

you .

1:17:16

I mean , I'm really bad on social media . I

1:17:18

have a Twitter and I try to be clever sometimes

1:17:20

, but it's kind of

1:17:22

. I'm on Twitter , matthew Leyshak , and

1:17:27

so my books are pretty much everywhere where you buy

1:17:29

books Fiat Food . I

1:17:31

have a lot of books , but most of them are

1:17:34

all in the crime

1:17:36

genre because that was , I

1:17:38

believe this fits neatly into my crime

1:17:40

genre . But Saifidin

1:17:42

Amou started a publishing house and

1:17:44

I was his first author . So if you go to thesaifhousecom

1:17:47

, you could actually buy Fiat

1:17:50

Food with Bitcoin , which is pretty

1:17:53

cool .

1:17:53

Amazing . Well

1:17:55

, I'll include all those links in the show notes . Thank

1:17:58

you very much , Matthew , for coming

1:18:00

on and helping us expose

1:18:03

this crime scene so

1:18:05

eloquently and interestingly .

1:18:08

Thank you , thanks Max . Keep spreading the word . Man Appreciate

1:18:13

it .