Joe and Amy talk with Kevin F., who got clean from heroin 11 years ago by taking ibogaine. After a few years in traditional 12 step groups, feeling alienated by his ibogaine experience and continued interest in psychedelics, he formed “Psychedelics in Recovery”, a growing 12 step fellowship composed of people utilizing psychedelics as a recovery integration tool.  We ask him if psychedelics and 12 step really can co-exist, what his group considers “sobriety” and why people gloss over Bill Wilson’s own use of psychedelics. Visit our sponsor for 20% off Clean Cause