0:00

It's not classified as an addiction , but it sure

0:02

has similarities . It's not classified

0:05

as obsessive-compulsive disorder , but it has

0:07

some similarities to that as well , and so

0:09

, primarily , romantic love can be a lifelong

0:12

thing , where you feel this deep attachment

0:14

to another person and want to be with them or

0:16

her . Limerence is a short-lived

0:18

event Not

0:20

all people go through , and if you do

0:23

, then you are so focused on the

0:25

other person that he or she becomes

0:27

basically everything in your world

0:29

. Back

0:32

in the 1970s , dr Tenov

0:34

started talking about this thing called limerence

0:37

. We in the 1990s

0:39

started teaching people about it and back then

0:41

it seemed that nobody had ever heard of it . Now

0:43

we are not the ones who found

0:45

the principle . Who discovered it , dr Dorothy

0:47

Tenhoff is . We've helped people to

0:49

understand it across the country and even to this

0:51

day , sometimes get invited to

0:54

come talk to marriage counselors and therapists

0:56

about what limerence is , because they've

0:58

had no teaching on it at

1:00

all . In this episode we're going to do three

1:02

things . Number one explain what limerence

1:04

is briefly , because we've talked about it so much

1:07

. Number two how can

1:09

you tell if you or

1:11

your spouse might be in limerence

1:13

with someone else ? And number three

1:16

I'm actually going to give you a

1:18

new device for questions you

1:20

can ask , that you can ask of yourself

1:22

, or that you can ask about your spouse

1:24

and answer by observing your spouse . That

1:27

will give you a good idea as to whether either

1:29

you or your spouse has crossed

1:31

the line when it comes to

1:33

boundaries in relationships . We'll get that at

1:35

the very end . I'm Dr Joe Beam with

1:38

Marriage Helper . This is Kimberly Beam Holmes , our CEO

1:40

, and this is Relationship

1:42

Radio .

1:43

Yes , sounds like a packed episode

1:45

.

1:45

I'm excited to dive into it .

1:48

All right , so the first thing we're going to cover is

1:50

what is limerence ?

1:53

I've talked about that so many times . Why don't you describe

1:55

it just briefly , what limerence is .

1:57

Limerence is the feeling of being madly

1:59

in love with someone else , and it

2:02

is generally characterized by the beginning

2:04

part or generally happens in the beginning parts of a . And it is generally characterized by the beginning part or generally happens in the beginning parts

2:06

of a relationship because

2:08

it is driven by a neurotransmitter

2:11

called dopamine , and dopamine

2:13

is the chemical of

2:15

anticipation of pleasure , and

2:17

so when your dopamine is high , it

2:19

is anticipating good things and planning

2:22

for the future . And in

2:24

limerence your serotonin also drops

2:26

, so that you are just constantly

2:29

enamored by this other person . So

2:31

that is my more

2:33

brainy way of

2:35

explaining what limerence is .

2:36

So what's the difference in that and

2:38

romantic love ?

2:40

So , according to Dr Helen Fisher

2:42

, who is brilliant and

2:44

worked under Dorothy Tinoff for a period

2:46

of time , she would say that

2:49

romantic love . So

2:53

she uses fMRIs to look

2:55

at when someone is in limerence , or what

2:57

she actually calls it romantic love . She

3:00

doesn't differentiate the two terms

3:02

. She doesn't differentiate

3:04

the two terms and

3:07

so she's looking at the way that certain areas of their brain light up and she says that doesn't

3:09

necessarily have to end when they see their object

3:11

that they're in love with . However , she

3:13

agrees and we have it on audio

3:16

because she was on my podcast talking about it that

3:18

the beginning parts of limerence , where it

3:20

is skyrocketing , where I mean

3:22

the dopamine is just through the roof , where

3:24

all you can do is think about the other person

3:26

, where productivity goes

3:29

, decreases because all you want to do is be with that other

3:31

person . That is not sustainable

3:34

and therefore that part of

3:36

romantic love fades , but

3:38

the the the drive

3:41

to want to be with the other person , being

3:43

, being the other part of romantic love , can stay

3:46

and doesn't necessarily ever have to fade , which I think

3:48

you and I would agree with . So then , what's the difference

3:50

in limerence and romantic love ? Limerence

3:52

is the sky-high

3:55

dopamine effect . It's where you feel

3:57

like you're addicted to the other person

3:59

, although it wouldn't necessarily be classified

4:02

as an addiction .

4:04

It's not classified as an addiction , but it sure

4:06

has similarities . It's not classified

4:08

as obsessive-compulsive disorder , but it has

4:10

some similarities to that as well , and so

4:13

, primarily , romantic love can be a lifelong

4:15

thing , where you feel this deep attachment

4:17

to another person and want to be with them or

4:19

her . Limerence is a short-lived

4:22

event , not

4:24

all people go through , and if you do

4:26

, then you are so focused on the other

4:28

person that he or she becomes basically

4:31

everything in your world . Therefore

4:34

, as Kimberly said , productivity drops

4:36

and decisions tend not to

4:38

be made very wisely . So

4:40

limerence between two single people

4:42

and neither one is bad for the other is

4:45

okay , right , limerence inherently

4:47

isn't a bad thing . What

4:49

makes it a bad thing ?

4:50

When you're married first of all

4:53

and you become in limerence with someone

4:55

else that's not your spouse , then

4:57

it can lead you to make

4:59

decisions that you wouldn't make

5:01

in a right state of mind and

5:04

ultimately , it's what leads to affairs . It's what can

5:06

lead to people divorcing , trying to be with the other person

5:08

, ruining their families , et cetera . Or

5:11

when someone falls in limerence with someone

5:13

and they're single . Both of them are single , but

5:15

they are not good for each

5:17

other .

5:18

Because they're not going to see that Exactly

5:21

and no matter how many people tell them that they're

5:23

not going to hear it Not see that Exactly and no matter how many people tell them that they're

5:25

not going to hear it , not going to hear it . And so we look at that and say then limerence between

5:27

two single people who are not bad for each other

5:29

part of nature it doesn't

5:31

always happen , but if it does , okay , Going

5:33

to be a lack of productivity , but it's okay

5:35

. But limerence that destroys

5:38

existing relationships is

5:40

a bad thing . Because if you're committed

5:43

to this man or committed to this woman and

5:45

now all of a sudden you know to feel

5:47

like , all of a sudden although it's not quite that way you

5:49

feel this overwhelming attraction

5:52

to this other person , to the point where you think I

5:55

don't know that I can live without him or live without her

5:57

, Then it's destructive , because

5:59

it's destructive to this relationship and

6:01

you say , well , maybe that relationship should have existed to begin

6:03

with . Actually , what's

6:06

going to happen is that limerence is

6:08

going to fade , it's going to go away

6:10

eventually . And that's when people typically

6:12

look back and think look at all the

6:14

damage I've done to other people , even to myself

6:16

, to my wife , my husband

6:18

, my children . So when we talk about

6:20

limerence , we're talking about it and

6:23

destroying one relationship , at

6:25

least one , maybe two relationships , to

6:27

begin a new relationship .

6:29

So what would you say to people who

6:31

may be listening to us at this point and say

6:33

well , how do we know that limerence

6:35

isn't just our evolutionary

6:39

, biological way of

6:43

showing us that we shouldn't be monogamous ?

6:47

way of showing us that we shouldn't be monogamous . Well

6:49

, we've done recently a program on non Ethical non-monogamy , ethical non-monogamy

6:52

, which I think is an oxymoron just to even

6:54

say that If

6:57

a person is justifying having

6:59

sex with a bunch of different people and having

7:02

this relationship with that person , that relationship

7:04

with that person . We have read in history

7:06

about people who had almost

7:09

uncontrollable sex drives , but

7:11

not necessarily because of the sex

7:13

, but because of the affirmation that

7:16

they get from this person and this person and this

7:18

person and this person . I don't know

7:20

that any of those people look back and say

7:22

that's the lifestyle I'd recommend for my children

7:24

. There may be , of course , but I don't

7:26

know of any of those people look back and say that's the lifestyle I'd recommend for my children . There may be , of course , but I

7:28

don't know of any of those people We'd look at that and say but stability

7:31

, having somebody who is there for you

7:33

we talked about this in a previous program . I

7:36

need to know that somebody loves me as I

7:38

am and that accepts me as I am

7:40

, will be there for me in the good times and

7:42

the bad , and you can't have

7:44

that hopping from relationship

7:47

to relationship to relationship to relationship

7:49

. I was watching a concert on television

7:51

the other night a rock and roll band , that one of the ones

7:53

I really like and the guy said I don't

7:55

have to remember the names of my first four wives

7:57

, I just call them all plaintiff . I'm

8:00

thinking okay , you

8:03

can't be as happy as people

8:06

. As a matter of fact , the research is out there . People

8:08

who are in good marriages not

8:10

perfect marriages , those don't exist actually

8:13

live longer , have more peace , are

8:15

healthier . We're not

8:17

made to hop from one relationship

8:19

to the next , we're made to

8:22

mate and to

8:24

stay with that mate . That's

8:27

how we're put together .

8:28

Right . Right , it is the

8:31

fleshly desire maybe there's a better way to

8:33

put that that leads us to want

8:36

to do these other things . It doesn't mean that it's right

8:38

Just because our biology

8:40

might drive us to be attracted to other people

8:43

even after marriage , or whatever

8:45

. It doesn't mean that it's the go-ahead

8:47

signal to do it .

8:50

No , sometimes I think wolves have

8:52

better morality than humans . A male

8:54

wolf will stay with that female companion until

8:57

death either hers or his

8:59

. You

9:01

say well , you're comparing us to wolves

9:03

, and I'm just saying that even in parts of

9:05

nature where that you function

9:07

better with a mate , you

9:10

see lifelong mating .

9:11

Yeah , yeah , very true . So

9:14

what are the signs ? What are the signs

9:16

? So there's 13 , I

9:19

believe . Oh , and there's a lot more than that . There's

9:21

at least 13 . One

9:23

of them we've already talked about there's a

9:26

heightened focus of this other

9:28

person , your limerent object , as

9:31

many people will know it as so the object

9:33

of the limerence . There's a heightened focus

9:35

around it . There's a halo effect you can't

9:37

see . You cannot see what

9:40

they do wrong . There is a decrease

9:42

of productivity because you're so

9:44

focused on wanting to be

9:46

with them or daydream about them , or thinking

9:48

about your future plans together . This is

9:50

where that dopamine comes in . You're anticipating

9:53

more pleasure with them in the future

9:55

. What are some others

9:57

?

9:57

Well , all of those are true . The

10:00

one thing that's always true , if it's

10:02

limerence , is there's a

10:04

deep longing , craving

10:06

, almost unquenchable

10:08

drive to be emotionally

10:11

connected to the other person , and that they

10:13

feel toward you what you feel toward them

10:15

. Now people might be saying , well , isn't that

10:17

the same as romantic love , in a

10:19

sense . But romantic love is not nearly as

10:21

intense , not nearly as overwhelming and

10:23

not nearly as controlling of you

10:25

. Because when we talk to people in limerence

10:28

it's like oh no , this is

10:30

my soulmate . I know I'm married to

10:32

that one , but this is my soulmate . God wanted me

10:34

to be with this one . Really , how

10:37

do you know ? Because I have such a deep craving

10:39

to be with him or her . And

10:41

if you leave the relationship you're in now , who

10:43

gets hurt ? Well , everybody's

10:45

going to wind up happy in the long run . What

10:48

makes you think that If this person loves

10:50

you , if you have children , they love you , etc . What makes

10:52

you think that nobody's going to be hurt by what you

10:54

do ? And so this craving becomes so

10:56

strong that you're willing to

10:58

even violate your own beliefs and values that

11:01

I'll do whatever it takes to

11:04

be with this person . And if that means I no

11:06

longer believe that divorce is wrong , then

11:09

I'll change that belief , if I no longer

11:11

believe that . If I didn't used to

11:13

say people should just do what makes them happy , if

11:15

I used to say you need to do what's right and responsible

11:17

, well , in limerence I'm going to change that over

11:19

to no , you just have to do whatever's going to

11:21

make me happy , and so you're right . Up

11:24

to 85% are

11:26

the waking hours spent thinking about

11:28

the other person or the relationship with the other

11:30

person , and they don't

11:32

have any sense that they control

11:34

the emotion . I can't tell

11:36

you the number of times somebody in limerence has looked at me and said

11:38

I can't stop this

11:41

, I can't stop what I'm feeling

11:43

, and that's because of the brain chemicals

11:45

, as you can explain in much more detail than I , and

11:53

so we look at that and say so . Limerence is when you are so focused on another

11:55

person that you're willing to sacrifice everything in your life to be with that person

11:57

. And then

11:59

we can give all kinds of examples , like the obsessive

12:02

thinking , like the hurting other people

12:04

around you , changing your habits that you never

12:06

changed before , and

12:08

even having hypervigilance

12:10

and paying attention to the

12:12

other person , so that we are constantly

12:15

if you're in limerence and that person you're in

12:17

limerence with , as you call , the limerent object , that

12:20

if I'm in limerence with her , I'm hypervigilant

12:22

as to any sign that she's moving toward

12:24

me emotionally and hypervigilant

12:27

to any sign real

12:29

or imagined that she's

12:31

moving away from me , which means

12:33

that it's lived a

12:35

lot in fear and

12:37

that fear drives the passion

12:39

, drives the emotion , and so

12:41

it's not romantic love . If

12:44

it were like that , the rest of your life would

12:46

destroy you . Nobody can live

12:48

at that level of intensity . Yet

12:50

at the same time , people who are in limericks think I

12:52

want this level of intensity and I'm going to feel like

12:54

this the rest of my life , but it can't

12:56

, cannot .

12:58

We recently did an

13:01

episode in a podcast about jealousy and

13:03

insecurity . So

13:05

if someone is in limerence , even

13:07

if they didn't have a history like

13:09

if you know , if they don't have an insecure attachment

13:12

or anything like that do they become

13:15

jealous and insecure just

13:17

because of the situation ?

13:20

If we were thinking about the four-quadrant model . It has

13:22

to do with attachment styles and we don't

13:24

have time to explain that in detail . People in

13:26

limerence are almost always

13:28

in the top right quadrant , which

13:30

is Preoccupied , Preoccupied

13:32

, Anxious .

13:33

I'm afraid that you're not going to be here for me , even

13:35

if they were previously secure , they

13:38

will move , at least temporarily , into

13:41

preoccupied .

13:42

At least with that person .

13:43

So would that be another

13:46

way to assess if someone's in limerence ?

13:48

That would be definitely a part of it . Preoccupied

13:50

could be again

13:52

if there's—well , let's put it this way If

13:55

you think about limerence as being destructive when it destroys

13:57

an existing relationship . So

14:05

if I'm in a secure quadrant with my wife , alice , and then I get into a limerence

14:07

with Sally Sue , so I move into a preoccupied quadrant with Sally Sue , I will move into

14:09

a dismissing of order quadrant with Alice

14:12

. Oh , interesting which means that as

14:14

I become preoccupied more

14:16

and more with this person , that I have this intense

14:18

emotional attraction to the

14:20

other relationships that preexisted that

14:23

I'm still in , become

14:25

totally worthless or valueless to

14:27

me . I mean , I may still give lip

14:30

service to it , but in terms

14:32

of what I'm going to live for , what I'm going to sacrifice

14:35

no Dismissing , avoidant

14:37

, I don't need those people anymore . Don't want

14:39

those people anymore , I just want this person

14:42

. And that's when you can see the true

14:44

destructive power of limerence , when

14:46

a person's in this relationship and

14:49

then winds up destroying that relationship

14:51

for the other relationship and saying , oh

14:53

, they're better off now . You've

14:55

just put them through a bunch of pain .

14:57

The kids can fall in that category too , right yeah

15:00

. So where the kids , the spouse

15:02

in limerence becomes dismissing , avoidant towards

15:04

their own children , absolutely Because they're trying

15:07

to justify their behavior

15:09

and they can't feel

15:11

, it would be difficult

15:13

for them to feel that they're hurting their children

15:15

, hurting their wife . So they have

15:17

to like , logically , they

15:19

have to move them into dismissing avoidance

15:21

. Yeah this can't matter to me

15:23

anymore .

15:25

Yep , and that's , I think , the clearest

15:27

sign of limers there is . I

15:29

have such a craving to be with her or

15:31

him and I'm hypervigilant , to

15:33

the point that I'm having ecstasy

15:35

or misery , based on how I interpret whatever

15:37

he or she does or doesn't do , and

15:40

so sometimes I'm up here , sometimes I'm down there , up here

15:42

, down there , up here , down there . As a matter

15:44

of fact , the song by Percy

15:46

Sledge , when a man Loves a Woman if you want to

15:48

go look those lyrics up because of

15:50

copyright laws I can't quote all of them

15:52

here , but if you go look up those lyrics , you'll

15:55

see a really interesting description of what

15:57

limerence is , including being

15:59

unable to see the other person's flaws turning

16:02

against anybody else that you perceive

16:04

as being between the two of you , and

16:07

that you will go from ecstasy to

16:09

misery just by what the other person does

16:11

or what you perceive they do . I

16:13

think that song summarizes about a thousand pages

16:15

of research .

16:17

And he didn't even know .

16:18

Well , I think he knew in the sense that

16:21

obviously he had been in limerence , right

16:23

?

16:24

So what is the tool or

16:26

the questionnaire that people can use

16:28

, whether they're trying to assess whether they

16:30

are in limerence or their spouse is in limerence

16:32

?

16:33

I'm not so sure this would assess limerence , but

16:35

it will definitely assess whether you

16:38

have crossed the boundary . Okay

16:40

, back home , many

16:42

years ago I think it was maybe even the 1970s

16:45

they came up with a thing called CAGE C-A-G-E

16:48

, and it was designed for frontline physicians

16:50

to get an idea as to whether you might be

16:52

an alcoholic or not . And the four questions

16:55

had to do with those letters C , a , g , e

16:57

. And so the first one was have you

16:59

ever felt you should cut back on

17:01

your drinking ? The second one was

17:03

have you ever felt annoyed that's the A about

17:06

what people say about your drinking ? And

17:08

then G was guilt have you ever felt guilty

17:10

about your drinking ? And then

17:13

the E is eye-opener have you ever needed

17:15

a drink to get an eye open in the morning ? I

17:17

mean to get yourself started . Two

17:19

yes answers , according to the research , two

17:21

yes answers indicate a 74% likelihood

17:24

that you're an alcoholic . Just

17:27

to those four questions . Well , they've expanded

17:29

it now to what's called the cage aid

17:31

, so it doesn't just cover alcohol

17:34

anymore , it covers drugs as well

17:36

. Well , I was looking at that a few years

17:38

ago and I thought we could modify that just a

17:40

little bit and get a pretty good

17:42

idea about whether somebody's crossing relationship

17:45

boundaries . Now I call it the cage

17:47

beam , just so we can differentiate

17:49

it between the other cage that we did

17:51

not come up with Now , using the same

17:53

idea though it's

17:56

like . Have you ever felt you should cut

17:58

back on the time you

18:00

spend with this person or the things you

18:02

talk to this person about ? I'm talking about

18:04

somebody other than your spouse , other than

18:06

the person you're already in a relationship with . So

18:08

this is what we're examining . Have you crossed

18:10

boundaries from this relationship into another one

18:12

you shouldn't be in . So number one have

18:15

you ever felt you should cut back on

18:17

the time you spend with this other person or the things

18:19

you talk to the person about ? A annoyed have

18:22

you ever been annoyed by what people

18:25

say about the time you spend

18:27

with or the relationship you have with this other person

18:29

? And then the

18:31

G have you ever felt guilty

18:33

about how much time you spend with

18:35

this person or the things you talk to this

18:38

person about ? And then the

18:40

E rather than being an eye opener like

18:42

you would with the drug or alcohol , e would

18:44

be elevator . Is this the person

18:46

that you want to go to whenever

18:48

you're really up or really

18:50

down , like I want

18:52

to share my joy with this person or I

18:55

want to be comforted by this other person . Now

18:57

, we have not done statistical studies on that

18:59

. Therefore I can't tell you that for

19:02

sure . Two yes answers

19:04

indicates a 74% likelihood

19:06

that you have crossed the boundaries . We

19:09

haven't done that kind of study . Here's what I would say

19:11

One yes

19:13

should definitely give you caution

19:15

on either one of those , either

19:17

of those four questions . Like , really

19:19

You're in this relationship with this person , but

19:22

now you're talking to that

19:24

person that much about things

19:26

that maybe you shouldn't be talking to that other person

19:28

about . And sometimes people

19:30

see it and when they say something about it rather

19:32

than listening to them , they become annoyed and

19:35

you sometimes feel guilty about it because

19:37

you think maybe I shouldn't be spending that much time

19:39

with him . And this person becomes

19:42

your eye not eye opener

19:44

, but elevator . That you want to

19:46

help you regulate your own emotions

19:48

, I'm saying just one of those

19:50

, kimberly , indicates to me that you are very

19:52

likely either about

19:56

to cross the boundary or you

19:58

have crossed the boundary . Now

20:00

the problem would be getting

20:02

somebody to honestly rape themselves , right

20:04

? So do you

20:06

know , rob , well enough , your husband Rob that

20:10

if he were having a friendship

20:12

with Sally Sue , since we

20:15

use that name would you be able to

20:17

be able to answer any of those questions for

20:19

him ?

20:20

Yeah .

20:21

How many ?

20:22

Well , I would be able to answer Probably

20:25

the elevator one , the annoy

20:28

one , for sure , and maybe

20:31

the cutback . It's

20:34

the cutback and the guilty ones because

20:36

those are more of what's internally happening within

20:38

him , got it ?

20:40

So , with the A and the E , would

20:42

be pretty much visible , unless

20:45

he has a tremendous person at hiding yeah , unless

20:47

he has a tremendous person at hiding yeah . And so

20:49

I'd say , if you worry , if your spouse is crossing

20:51

a boundary , I'm not telling you that

20:53

this guarantees you that they have

20:55

, I'm telling you that it's a good

20:57

sign . So

21:01

Kimberly , at church , called me several years ago now and said some of the people are unhappy

21:03

about the relationship between our minister and

21:06

his secretary and

21:08

we just want to make sure that everything's

21:10

good . And so

21:12

I gave them those four questions and

21:15

said now , just based on your observation

21:17

and on both

21:19

the A and the E , they

21:21

said powerful yeses . I said

21:23

then I cannot tell you for sure

21:26

that you've crossed the boundary , but I'm telling you

21:28

the signs are highly likely that this

21:30

should be looked into . Yeah . They

21:32

said nah , we don't think so

21:34

. We think he's okay . And

21:37

he literally told me that . And so a month

21:39

later he ran away with

21:42

the secretary . Just it

21:44

took off . Now I'm

21:46

saying do not determine that

21:48

your spouse has crossed the boundaries if

21:51

you can answer for him or her , both

21:53

the A and the E . But I'm saying , if you

21:55

can answer those , it's time for you

21:57

guys to have a very serious conversation

21:59

. Not an attacking conversation , because

22:02

people always defend themselves when they're attacked , but

22:04

an open and honest conversation where you sit down and

22:07

think about it from your side . But an open and honest

22:09

conversation , where you sit down and think about it from your

22:11

side , I'm worried . I feel that I don't have the relationship

22:14

with you that I want to have . I

22:16

worry because and then those

22:18

kinds of things and if they're going to

22:20

be honest , they're more likely to be honest in that

22:22

kind of conversation .

22:24

And then what if they're not ? What if they just say

22:26

it's all in your head , nothing's happening ?

22:28

Which they may . I mean , it's not unusual

22:30

for a person in the limerence to do that

22:32

to their spouse , right To the point where the

22:34

spouse starts thinking maybe I'm crazy . As a matter

22:36

of fact , sometimes they'll tell them that she's your best

22:39

friend . What are you thinking about ? Oh

22:43

, you're just paranoid . In other words , you

22:45

better start paying a lot of attention . Is

22:47

there missing money ? Is there missing

22:49

time ? Are

22:51

there unexplained things going

22:53

on ? Like usually he's home

22:56

by 6 , but now he's

22:58

typically home by 9 , and

23:00

you don't have a good explanation for that . Now

23:02

you may have an excuse that you're getting , but no

23:04

good explanation for that . You start looking for signs that

23:07

things aren't right and then , based on that , you start looking

23:09

for signs that things aren't right and then , based on that , you

23:11

must decide what to do next .

23:14

Which is what ?

23:16

Well , it's based on whether you want to save

23:18

the marriage or not . If you

23:20

think you have enough evidence that he or she is cheating

23:22

on you , then , if you wish , you can call

23:24

the divorce attorney and get everything started . That's

23:26

not what we would recommend . What we

23:28

recommend is that you sit down with them again and

23:31

say look , I've got enough

23:33

evidence here . If they go to our website

23:35

, marriage Helper that's marriagehelpercom , and

23:39

in the search engine there type in intervention

23:41

. We actually have like

23:44

a 35 , 40-page PDF there

23:46

and two 45-minute audios

23:49

teaching them how they can do an

23:51

intervention if they have

23:53

come to the point where they know what's going on , and

23:56

that's available for free Mm-hmm .

23:58

So what would you say ? The next step is for

24:00

the listener .

24:02

Which listener ?

24:04

The person wanting to save the marriage .

24:06

The next step ? Well , go

24:08

, look at the intervention document and you

24:10

may want to get

24:13

help with us right away . Now you're

24:15

saying what if my spouse won't ? We

24:17

discovered a few years ago that X number of spouses

24:19

refused to attend our three-day

24:21

intensive workshop , and so

24:23

, based on your leadership , we developed a

24:26

solo spouse version same material

24:28

, actually a little bit more in depth , where

24:31

that solo spouse has come because the other one's

24:33

not interested at this point or doesn't want

24:35

to at this point . If you really want to learn

24:37

a lot about yourself and about relationships , about

24:39

what to do , about what not to do , that

24:42

solo spouse workshop will enrich you

24:44

I mean tremendously and

24:47

we have seen , based on that , people then

24:49

are able to turn the relationship with their

24:51

spouse around just because of the

24:53

things they've learned and they've changed , and have been

24:55

able to get the spouse to come back with them to

24:58

our couples workshop even

25:01

after the spouse has said don't ever contact me

25:03

again about anything .

25:04

Yeah .

25:04

So I sort of recommend our solo spouse workshop . Yeah , so that's what I would

25:06

recommend our solo spouse workshop ?

25:07

Yeah , and they can find out more by going to

25:10

marriagehelpercom

25:12

. Slash book now , Book

25:14

now being one word . Book now being one word

25:16

yes , and speaking with an intake specialist

25:19

, what about for the

25:22

person in limerence

25:24

?

25:26

I would suggest one of two things . The solo spouse

25:29

workshop may be what you need as well . What

25:31

I'm saying is , if you're not ready to tell your spouse

25:33

what you're doing , you're not ready to be admitted

25:35

, but you really feel that you should stop it

25:38

. Like I know this

25:40

is not right , and so some days it's like I'm going to go with this other

25:42

person and some days it's like I can't go with this

25:44

other person . That's not right . If you're in that

25:46

state and not ready to discuss it with your spouse

25:48

, please come to our solo spouse

25:50

workshop . We'll often have people

25:52

in there trying to make that decision . You

25:54

say but they'd been a workshop with other people who are trying

25:56

to save the marriages . Yeah , won't

25:59

they treat me like dirt ? We've

26:01

never seen that . As a matter of fact , it's

26:03

been extremely empathetic because

26:06

they're trying to understand both sides , and so

26:08

many people have come to the Solo Spouse Workshop

26:10

. I

26:13

don't know how many , but several people have come to the Solo Spouse Workshop to decide whether

26:15

they should let the limerence lead them or

26:19

if they should try to save the marriage and , for

26:21

other reasons , the limerence as well . Should

26:23

I stay in this marriage or not ? And then

26:25

, if you are ready to

26:27

talk to your spouse about it . We would definitely

26:30

recommend the couples workshop . We

26:32

can help tremendously with both

26:34

of you there to understand those things .

26:36

Absolutely . And again , you can go

26:38

to marriagehelpercom slash book now

26:40

Speak with an intake specialist about

26:42

how we can help . Great

26:45

episode , great information , lots that we

26:47

covered , but I believe the listeners

26:49

are going to love it , and they always love limerence content

26:51

.

26:52

Okay , Well , we

26:54

always will come back with more all kinds of

26:56

content on Relationship Radio .

26:58

That's right , and until next time , remember

27:00

there is always hope .