0:03

Three two one,

0:08

So I wanted to share

0:10

a little insight into how

0:13

internally we've been approaching REP

0:15

so far. So we've

0:18

broken up the first season into

0:20

two parts. You've just listened

0:23

to the first half. The first

0:25

five episodes are deeply

0:27

personal stories that hopefully

0:29

gave you tools that you're going to

0:31

use to decode and understand

0:34

our last five episodes which

0:36

go into more theory and power

0:38

dynamics, but don't worry,

0:41

they're still full of brilliant

0:43

stories and story guides. This

0:46

episode right now is

0:48

simply a bridge, a

0:51

pause, a moment to

0:53

reflect on where we've been and

0:55

where we're going. What

0:58

you're going to hear later in

1:00

this episode is mostly recorded

1:03

internal conversations, but

1:06

while I was recording these conversations, I always

1:09

had you all in mind. It's

1:11

always been very important for me to be transparent

1:14

about my process and where

1:16

we're at with our thinking, because, like

1:18

I've mentioned throughout the show, we

1:21

are always evolving. Our stories

1:23

are thoughts are always evolving.

1:33

So with that being said, I wanted

1:36

to welcome you to this episode, which

1:38

in musical terms we like to call

1:41

the Interlude.

1:50

I first met my co writer and co

1:53

producer of REP Zaren Burnett when

1:55

he interviewed me for Playboy magazine

1:57

six years ago. Our

2:00

conversation lasted hours,

2:03

and he transcribed it into sixty

2:05

pages. We joked that it

2:07

could be published as a short book.

2:10

Playboy decided to publish a different

2:12

interview with me for their Renegades issue,

2:15

and the conversation that Zaren and I

2:17

had never actually came

2:19

out until this day.

2:22

It's my favorite interview and the most

2:24

representative interview I've ever done.

2:28

We became quick friends after this conversation,

2:31

and I made an intention that Zaren

2:33

and I would work together on a project

2:35

that felt right for both of us. The

2:39

idea for rep was born in shortly

2:43

after I finished working on my series

2:46

Sold in America, where I spent

2:48

a few years investigating the sex trade

2:50

in the US. I noticed

2:52

the way media represented people of

2:55

all different subcommunities and

2:57

how that representation was impacting

3:00

all of us, both the

3:02

people who are supposedly being represented

3:05

and the people consuming those stories.

3:08

So I wanted to examine the

3:11

concept of representation more

3:13

intentionally, and the question

3:15

that I specifically kept asking myself

3:18

was how is the way

3:20

that American media covers

3:23

Muslims and Arabs impacting

3:25

American culture and society

3:28

as a whole. And while that

3:30

question was my initial intention

3:32

for REP, the more I dug,

3:35

the more the story revealed itself

3:37

to be much, much bigger. REP

3:40

has become a journey about the

3:43

stories we tell as a collective,

3:46

our relationships with those stories,

3:48

with truth, with objectivity,

3:51

and of course the value of representation,

3:55

and the intention is always

3:57

to have a deeper understanding of

3:59

ourselves, our stories,

4:02

and our beliefs so we can

4:04

make sense of the world and reality

4:07

each of us are individually living

4:09

in. So Zaren

4:13

had just produced his cinematic podcast

4:15

series Black Cowboys, where

4:18

he and his father also named

4:20

Zaren, tell us fantastical

4:23

stories of real life American

4:25

cowboys. It quickly

4:27

became one of my favorite podcasts,

4:30

and of course Zaren became

4:32

the only person I had in mind when

4:35

I wanted to bring REP to life. He

4:38

knows the power and importance of

4:40

really being in a relationship with

4:42

our own stories. So

4:45

Zarin and I meet regularly, and

4:47

our REP meetings felt like a continuation

4:49

of our conversation six years

4:51

ago, and so I began

4:53

to record them. This episode

4:56

will feel a little different because

4:59

this episode mostly features

5:01

I recorded conversation where Zaren

5:03

and I check in with each other about our intentions,

5:07

and with that, I am so happy to

5:09

introduce you all to Zaren Burnett.

5:17

It's a travesty and a tragedy that we can't

5:19

see each other, and so that what I really

5:21

like is that I think this story, without being confrontational,

5:24

is making people be able to see each other and giving them

5:27

the means to do this in their own life.

5:29

So I'm hoping that it's like a toolbox as

5:31

much as it is a journey for them that

5:33

you're handing them along the way. They're learning

5:35

how to like build a wheel, and then they learned how to

5:37

build an axle, and then they learned how to build a box, and they

5:39

put the box on the axle on the wheel. A sudden they got a wagon,

5:41

and so like while we're taking the journey,

5:43

they're also learning how to take other journeys on their own,

5:45

with other than this one. That's what I'm kind of my

5:48

hope is, And I think that you're doing that these

5:50

stories in a way that I constantly get

5:52

moved by little things that are ideas,

5:54

but it's because of uh

5:57

an image or somebody else saying

5:59

something about what they're dealing with. So that

6:02

modeling I find really powerful and

6:04

I'm hoping that others take that because

6:07

you know, you can use theory, you can use jargon, you

6:09

can use jingo, all these things people

6:11

try to do to change minds, but ultimately

6:13

it is very simply usually connection and modeling.

6:16

I love that. That's beautiful, Thank you.

6:20

I often come to Zaren with what I

6:22

refer to as a breakthrough

6:24

or an unlock, those moments

6:27

of desperately trying to figure out an answer

6:30

or in most cases a question. Zeren

6:33

refers to this as positive

6:35

stress. I'm I don't

6:37

believe in things like positive tension and positive

6:39

stress. Those are two things.

6:42

Yeah, it's so's I

6:44

completely agree with you. I guess I never thought

6:46

about it being a type of thing to think.

6:49

It just is like how I always felt, because

6:52

I actually enjoy some certain

6:54

types of stress. Sometimes it's like it's

6:56

kind of like solving a math problem, like when

6:58

you're cracking it in your brain is like so

7:01

stressed out, but you feel it moving. Yeah,

7:06

exactly. It was a breakthrough.

7:10

And the breakthrough I've come to Zarin with today

7:12

is right after I've had a long conversation

7:15

with my neighbor Nick. Nick

7:17

loves to hunt, cook and

7:20

he taught me how to shoot bow and arrow. He

7:23

recently made Adam and I some delicious

7:25

venice and chili, and as I was returning

7:27

his tupperware, we spoke about his

7:29

reflections on REP. It's

7:32

the first podcast he's ever listened to. Nick

7:36

was still thinking about the opening scene

7:38

of our show, specifically

7:41

the Back to the Future clip depicting Libyan

7:43

terrorists, so I share

7:45

more with Zarin. He went

7:47

straight into, well, my daughter is

7:50

watching Stranger Things, and

7:53

in Stranger Things, the Russians

7:55

are the bad guy, and she just hates

7:58

Russians right now. She apts salutely

8:00

hates Russians. And I was like, uh

8:03

huh yeah.

8:06

And so he had this really huge unlock,

8:09

and I was watching his brain just

8:11

work. And so what I told him

8:13

was the thing is

8:16

it's important for us to distinguish between

8:18

governments and people. They're not the

8:21

same thing. And that

8:23

you know, when Trump was in office, I

8:26

had so many people who would reach out to me saying,

8:28

I don't want to study abroad in America, But like,

8:30

is it really as dangerous as it seems?

8:32

Like? My family doesn't want me to go, and

8:34

I was just like wow, like this is representation

8:37

of America right now. At this point. It's

8:41

during this conversation with Nick

8:44

that a specific memory of mine resurfaces,

8:47

and it hits me like a ton of bricks.

8:50

I had just finished writing the opening

8:52

scene to our fifth episode titled

8:55

Tell the Truth, Truth, and

8:57

the memory I opened up with is my

9:00

professor on my last day of journalism

9:03

school asking me if I

9:05

was sure I wanted to pursue journalism

9:07

with a hijab on. His

9:09

reason was because it quote

9:12

only takes one jerk, and

9:14

he insinuated me getting killed. This

9:18

memory has always stuck with me, but

9:21

during this conversation with Nick,

9:23

I remember why. My

9:25

professor said that it was

9:28

this memory that I had suppressed, and

9:30

I shared it with Nick, and then of course

9:32

I shared it with Zaren. During

9:37

that semester spring, I

9:40

was also a full time touring

9:42

speaker. One of my speaking engagements

9:45

brought me out to Nashville, Tennessee,

9:47

were less than an hour away. In a small

9:49

town called Murphysboro. There was

9:51

a huge story I could cover for my

9:53

school assignment. The is Isnamic

9:56

Center of Murphysboro had gotten a Muslim

9:58

cemetery approved, but a group

10:00

of opponents were fighting to halt

10:02

its construction. After

10:05

hearing at the local courthouse, the

10:07

group of opponents took their fear

10:09

and frustration out on

10:11

local reporters and local community

10:14

members, and then on camera

10:17

began verbally attacking me.

10:20

Now for legal purposes. Unfortunately,

10:23

I can't play the recording of that day on this

10:25

podcast, but the moment went

10:27

viral and you can find it online. The

10:30

tape I shot shows terrible

10:32

things that people said about Muslims that day,

10:34

including it's not a religion

10:37

and calling us liars. I

10:39

even had to prove my school assignment

10:42

because a former GOP candidate

10:44

and her team believed that I

10:46

was affiliated with a terrorist organization.

10:50

The last thing the woman said to me while

10:52

my camera was rolling was you're

10:55

really inciting work. It's really

10:57

scary what you're doing. But

11:01

it wasn't the hate that really got

11:03

to me. It was the genuine

11:06

terror. And

11:10

it wasn't until this conversation

11:13

right now with Nick that

11:15

I had this unlock where I realized,

11:19

Oh, rep

11:22

is in response to

11:24

that experience, because what I

11:27

realized is that she was genuinely

11:31

afraid of me. And

11:35

the thing is like, nobody

11:37

ever wants to make someone

11:39

afraid like you. I don't want

11:42

someone to be afraid of me, Like I would never

11:44

want to instill fear in somebody that

11:47

doesn't feel exactly

11:53

exactly. And that's

11:55

so true. And and

11:59

I realized it when I was talking to Nick, and I was

12:01

like, people have this genuine fear.

12:03

It's not an unjust it's a real

12:06

fear. And while it

12:08

isn't our fault, like it's not American

12:10

Muslim's fault and it's wrong,

12:13

that can also exist alongside

12:15

it being a genuine fear. Yeah,

12:17

well it's a genuine it's an irrational

12:20

fear. It's a genuine fear. It's a

12:22

fear of their own imagination because they

12:24

don't know what they're afraid of, so they're only afraid

12:26

of this boogeyman and then the boogeyman,

12:28

where is your face exactly

12:32

exactly? And

12:35

oh wow. Basically

12:38

the reason I realized what how

12:41

this was actually what rep was is

12:43

because the

12:45

first question that he asked Nick

12:48

with his face just like he had he's

12:50

like he was gaping the whole time. The first

12:52

question that he asked was,

12:55

but why do you think she was so afraid

12:59

that was he was genuinely wondering

13:02

that, and me and Adam look

13:04

at each other and then we look at him

13:06

and we go because stories like

13:11

literally because stories, and that

13:14

is like why grap needed

13:16

to start out as for me, the intention

13:18

of how the misrepresentation

13:21

of Muslims in American media is hurting

13:23

all of us. It's not about

13:26

just because we're Muslim, that's what's

13:28

happening. It's like giving it's a case

13:30

study to show you that fear

13:34

of anybody through stories like

13:36

we all end up living in fear. That

13:39

woman is not having a good time

13:41

being afraid of me, and I am

13:43

definitely not having a good time

13:45

being the recipient of her fear. Like

13:49

out of it is the world briefly makes sense

13:51

to her because she knows who the bad person

13:54

is and she she's the good person. That's all

13:56

this for a moment she gets to gets to

13:58

makes sense that it's exactly

14:00

it, That's exactly it.

14:04

Huh wow. I mean that just goes back

14:06

to all of us looking for the truth, truth or

14:08

looking for answers. It's also

14:10

why Donald Trump is such a genius politician

14:12

is because he gives answers to these people

14:14

in very simple terms, and they can go along with it, and

14:16

everyone else makes fun of them. It's so smart. But

14:19

that's not that. None of that fucking matters. The smart

14:21

people talk to each other and the rest

14:24

of the world moves through emotions and beliefs

14:26

and momentum. And I

14:29

mean, I'm not suggesting that people

14:31

should emulate him, but they should understand why

14:33

his thing works, That's all I'm saying. And the people

14:35

should be able to do that in their way, which

14:38

is to speak to people's emotions, speak to

14:40

where they live in their beliefs, and

14:42

then get them to be not afraid. Because you can

14:44

make a belief be positive or a belief

14:46

be negative, but it will never really be

14:49

rational. It's a belief. It's below that.

14:51

You know. Wow,

14:54

if you know your

14:56

story and you

14:58

can unpack your own fears,

15:03

you are of course forced to start

15:05

questioning your beliefs because

15:07

that's a part of that process to

15:10

know you're not also building new ones, and that's

15:12

a really healthy part of the process is

15:14

because suddenly you have things that make you

15:16

feel good because you believe them.

15:20

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

15:22

And in the same sense as they're like the police

15:24

are always grounded an emotion. Right, So emotions

15:27

can seem reasonable, right, They're

15:29

not rational, but they're reasonable. It makes

15:31

sense. I feel this way because

15:33

of this, So it makes sense. But it's not rational.

15:36

You can't throw facts at incorrect it.

15:38

It's just purely this felt like this,

15:40

and that's why I think that's right. So that's

15:42

that's the limit of its reason. But because of

15:45

that, you can give people to go and lots of

15:47

different directions. You just have to make it makes sense

15:49

at that level, which is yes. I

15:51

mean, like for a long time, for

15:53

centuries, the idea

15:55

is that you should turn your other cheek

15:58

when you were struck. A lot of creaseds

16:00

went with that. They decided, I mean, that's motivated

16:03

Martin Luther King Jr. And that and and what

16:05

Gandhi did. But between the idea

16:07

of non violence comes from this Jesus idea

16:09

of like when you're when you were beaten, when you were

16:11

struck with violence, turned your other cheek and

16:13

basically Greek more violence, you know, be

16:16

ready for more violence rather than to

16:18

become violent. That idea of work because

16:20

people believed it. They had no proof in

16:22

their world. You know, they're like, oh this shoes just

16:24

sucks. It's painful, but they believed that

16:26

it was something more enduring. It was their soul, it

16:28

was heaven, so the physical pain was

16:30

beneath the soul. Right, we don't

16:33

have that anymore, so you can't make those arguments.

16:35

But those are the same types of arguments that

16:37

work. It's a belief. It's a belief

16:39

system. Right now. Our belief system is

16:42

very earth based, so it's based on politics

16:44

and grudges and short views of history

16:47

and news stories. But it has the has

16:49

the power of conviction and the belief

16:52

of faith and of religion. And that's why you see

16:54

the cultishness around Donald Trump.

16:56

That's why you see people willing to die for this stuff.

16:58

You see all this religiosity city that

17:00

has no venting and no direction. And

17:02

some people like Trump realized because he's a salesman

17:05

and he's basically a huckster, so he loves a

17:07

fucking religious convention. He can go there and sell

17:09

them because he knows. That's why I'll

17:11

hold up the Bible. They don't know it any more than he

17:13

does, so he'll go around and symbolize. And

17:16

I wish more people could get into understanding

17:18

I'm not suggesting we dropped down to this

17:21

level, but we have to understand that that's

17:23

the level where most of the conversation right

17:25

now is occurring in the culture. Exactly, exactly

17:29

exactly. And the yaha

17:32

moment that I had when I got home, that

17:35

I had right before when

17:37

I was supposed to get on this call with you was

17:41

a flashback, which was that

17:44

story that I start the episode

17:46

out about my professor saying,

17:48

are you sure it only takes one jerk?

17:51

Was in response to what happened in Tennessee.

17:54

I forgot that. I completely

17:57

shut that story out. So

17:59

they were saying they were they weren't warning you based

18:01

on their imagination. They were warning you based on something

18:03

that just occurred. Yes, And I didn't

18:05

even remember that. I

18:08

didn't even remember that. The story

18:10

I had written in my head was that on

18:12

the last day he said that because of how he felt

18:15

the first time we met, where he was like, are you sure you can't

18:17

just take it off for the TV and put

18:19

it back on? And then the last

18:21

day of school that happened, and it always stuck

18:23

with me that he asked me that question. I was so like,

18:26

almost a little bit hurt because I was like book at how

18:28

far I've come, like from when I asked

18:30

to shadow you to where we are. I'm like touring

18:32

and I I did a story on the expansion

18:34

of Mecca that I shot on my iPhone. I got

18:37

hundreds of thousands of views. And

18:40

I did that for my class, Like I literally

18:42

illegally filmed in Mecca to do

18:45

a story for my class, and

18:48

um, and that was so

18:50

I just remembered all that, and I

18:52

realized, like, oh, that's why

18:54

we are doing rep is because

18:57

I know that for me, a starting point

19:00

because it's not just all of it, but a starting

19:02

point for addressing the fear that

19:04

people have of other people that they just

19:06

don't understand, is starting

19:08

with the stories that we're telling about those people.

19:11

It is through media represented.

19:13

We have such a consuming

19:16

relationship with media now, especially

19:19

now, that if

19:21

we don't start with our stories. And

19:23

that's why you have started the story of yourselves, because

19:25

once you know yourself intimately,

19:29

you know that I would never want somebody to lump

19:31

me in with another person because I am

19:33

so uniquely me, So

19:37

I'm not going to do that to other people. And

19:39

that's how I can have a conversation like that with Nick

19:41

because I don't lump him in with everybody

19:44

else. If you don't, you only

19:46

need a group if you're doing a group project. And really

19:50

you only need a group if you're doing a group project

19:52

exactly, and look at how hard those

19:54

are. I

19:57

never I was always the person ended up doing

19:59

all the work. So I resist

20:01

labels, but I don't mind a fixing

20:04

adjective. So be like a person who is

20:06

American. You know, that's an adjective. It's not

20:08

a not a definition. If you want you to say,

20:10

oh, you're an American, but what is that? If

20:12

I say, the person who's American means oh, they come

20:14

from America, that's literally how I'm using it.

20:16

So then that means it tells you something.

20:19

But I wish we could get the culture there, but it

20:21

seems like right now it's the opposite. Everybody is not

20:23

getting faster and faster and labeling themselves and

20:26

diagnosing themselves, labeling others. Oh

20:28

my gosh, that is so true. We

20:31

have to really start asking ourselves, like

20:33

who's benefiting from

20:36

these stories? Like we have to start really

20:38

interrogating that because

20:40

we're all hurting and so somebody

20:43

has to be benefiting. And if we can recognize

20:45

that maybe we can start working on our own healing and

20:48

not accepting those storylines, or being

20:50

more inquisitive, or just really

20:53

starting to get to know ourselves

20:56

in true rep fashion. We

20:58

have to go back and we

21:00

have to examine ourselves. And that's why we're

21:02

going to begin with examining the story

21:04

of America and this idea

21:07

that maybe story is America's

21:09

greatest export. Mm I

21:15

like it. M

21:19

that's the break through. There's

21:21

a go for cycle. Yeah,

21:23

it feels like you've reached your destination,

21:28

but this happens to be a rest up, both

21:31

for that episode because you've tied your intro in your intro

21:33

together, so you have a nice circle there, but then also

21:35

for the all of the episodes, it ties

21:37

together to the whole first half. Nice

21:48

oh, rep.

21:54

One of the things that you were talking about a

21:56

couple of weeks ago as we transition

21:58

into the second half

22:01

of this series is about

22:03

us using the first half to introduce

22:06

these ideas and these tools. And that's what I really

22:08

liked about episode five

22:11

is that we kept seeing specific

22:13

tangible tools show up so that

22:16

you can go back and essentially

22:18

know what we what kind of tools we used

22:21

to be able to get here. So as

22:24

we are empowered with the tools

22:26

and the approach to story for the

22:28

second half, how do you currently

22:32

feel we look

22:34

at power without laying

22:37

the language of it. So I don't want people sitting there

22:39

thinking about the forty laws of power or whatever. I

22:41

don't want them using previous language.

22:44

I want them to suddenly realize that that's what

22:46

they're analyzing, right, So then they go, oh, I

22:48

could use this anywhere because now they're

22:50

doing it without applying a special lens. They

22:52

are suddenly just given the ability to see something

22:55

they couldn't say before. I

22:58

had this thought today

23:00

while I was walking in

23:05

the cemetery. I take

23:07

would take like morning walks in the cemetery,

23:09

and it's so beautiful. There's like mountains in the

23:11

background, and there's trees

23:13

and the grass is blowing, and there's all these animals

23:15

around and I

23:18

I'm looking around and I just suddenly think, like,

23:22

I don't want to use the language

23:24

that is hateful

23:27

or negative towards

23:29

America. I mean, it just

23:31

reminds me of the James Baldwin quote of

23:34

I criticize America because of how much I

23:36

love her, Like I'm so

23:38

grateful that for us being

23:40

able to be here. When I watched

23:42

Saturday Night Live yesterday, I

23:44

literally looked at Adham and laughed, and I was like, Wow,

23:46

thank God for freedom of speech, because

23:49

a lot of the stuff that is set on there you would not be

23:51

allowed to say in other places in the world. Like that

23:54

is still not something to take for granted.

23:57

And we I mean, I think a lot of people can play

23:59

American code. You're in America. The nation. American

24:01

nation is one of the greatest conceptions of how

24:04

people can live together in the history. But I I

24:06

am a student of history, and everybody

24:08

who studies history knows this is one of the greatest

24:11

power balances amongst the people in the

24:13

government. Now we let it go astray because

24:15

of our culture. Our culture is corrupted our

24:18

nation's design. But that's on

24:20

us, that's not on the national design. Then, you know, like

24:23

even though it was you know, created by dusty

24:25

slave owning people who were sexist, I'm

24:27

not suggesting that they are perfect people, but out

24:29

of all the various constructions, it's one of the

24:31

best nations created on paper.

24:37

So then that's what we should be working

24:39

towards, exactly making the making

24:42

the promise real and

24:44

the way that we make the promise real is

24:46

by examining

24:48

what the promise actually is and

24:51

also not giving up the fight. Not giving

24:54

up the fight to the so called patriots. This is way

24:56

too much history, way too many struggles, I

24:58

know, made too many like my aunts sisters,

25:00

who went through way difficult heinous

25:02

slave type ship to get to this point.

25:05

I'm not going to forgive all that and you hand it over to

25:07

some people just because they get loud and say for patriots

25:09

and this is our country. I'm gonna say no, this is my

25:11

country because of all the investments of

25:13

all these people before me that I feel

25:15

that I can say that. And I would turn to my friend

25:18

who is newly made a minted American

25:20

is saying they can feel exactly the same, because

25:22

that's how America works. So it doesn't mean

25:24

that you're blood and soil

25:26

it is. This is why I have no art,

25:29

no problem arguing with the patriots. But

25:31

I don't want people being afraid of

25:33

these so called like hateful patriots, because

25:36

all they're trying to use bluster to

25:38

make every but they're afraid. The reason why

25:40

they're getting so loud and so violent is they're afraid

25:42

they know they're losing and they're trying to act like

25:44

they're not. And then if anyone believes that,

25:47

I mean, I would

25:49

say, you need to study playground behavior,

25:52

because this is the play This is very much playground

25:54

behavior. This is somebody who knows they're going to lose

25:56

and they're trying to get magic so that the game stocks

26:00

and they're trying to get mad so the game stops.

26:03

Wow, that gave me chills because that is so

26:06

familiar. I know that kid on the playground,

26:08

right, because

26:11

if the game stops, it can't lose, and they can just you

26:13

know, start and then okay, now we'll start New

26:15

roy or whatever, it's my play'll they'll they'll keep

26:17

arguing, but they they're terrified

26:20

that they're you know, and that's on them. But whatever.

26:22

Like, but we shouldn't be afraid that they're

26:24

going to this like civil war

26:26

stuff. Any of this talk of like a

26:29

bigger, greater thing is giving them a lot of credit

26:31

they don't deserve. Oh my

26:33

gosh,

26:36

So to you personally, what is the

26:38

role of story and all of this? It

26:41

is once again returning to

26:44

religion. It is one of the

26:46

most powerful tools we have.

26:48

It is the Parables. It is the like

26:51

the homilies, it is the sutras.

26:53

It is every time we have something

26:56

where you can boil down into a story

26:58

and you can impart a lot of is like

27:00

a scene that can become an oak tree can be in

27:02

a story, right, So I

27:05

think of that as being the power

27:07

of story. It is the way to beat the gun.

27:09

It is the way to be the courts.

27:11

Is the way to beat all these things that people are terrified

27:13

because it's something they can be passed along.

27:15

As long as people understand it and they believe

27:18

it and they feel it, they can then make it their

27:20

own and it can be can slightly changed because

27:22

the truth will still be in there. So the story

27:24

itself is I

27:26

think the most powerful tool we have to change the world

27:29

the way we want that doesn't involve blood saren

27:36

You know this hit me when

27:38

we first when I when we first started talking

27:40

and I was sharing this breakthrough with you, and

27:43

I was like, oh, you and I

27:45

were never meant to do our

27:47

interlude debrief episode,

27:50

all miked up and everything. It was meant to

27:52

be one of these times. And I haven't recorded

27:54

one of our conversations in a while because We've

27:56

been so invested in

27:59

every thing that it's just been so fast. But

28:01

if you're comfortable, I'd like to use

28:04

some of this conversation for that sure

28:07

first, if you've been recording

28:11

that felt like that felt like the interlude

28:13

to me definitely.

28:21

BA REP

28:29

is a production of At Your Service, School

28:32

of Humans and i Heeart Podcasts.

28:35

This show is written and produced by Me Judy

28:38

and Zaren Burnett. Sound

28:40

design, scoring, editing,

28:43

mixed and mastered by Jesse Nice

28:46

Longer theme song written and

28:48

composed by Maimuna Yusuf, also

28:50

known as Mumu Fresh. Our

28:53

senior producer is Amelia Brock.

28:55

Our executive producers are Adam Kafif,

28:58

Zaren Burnett, Jason English and Meet

29:02

Special Thanks to Virginia Prescott from

29:04

School of Humans and Will Pearson

29:07

from My Heart Podcasts. If

29:09

this podcast resonated with you and you'd like

29:11

to support our show, please rate and review

29:13

and share it with someone you think may enjoy it. Tune

29:16

into REP next time. I'm

29:18

as always at your Service. Next

29:26

up on REP is America's

29:29

greatest export, her story.

29:32

Let's explore that together. Meet

29:35

you back here July four,