0:04

Welcome to repo's fight back a

0:07

podcast where we explore all things, reproductive,

0:09

health, rights, and justice. I'm

0:11

your host, Jenny wetter. And I'll

0:14

be helping you stay informed around issues like

0:16

birth control, abortion, sex,

0:18

education, and LGBTQ

0:20

issues, and much, much more giving

0:23

you the tools you need to take action

0:25

and fight back. Okay, let's dive

0:27

in. Hi,

0:31

we rose. How's everybody doing? I'm

0:33

your host, Jenny wetter and my pronouns.

0:35

Are she her? So

0:37

yeah , I'm really excited for today's episode

0:40

and I'm gonna really just keep my intro

0:42

short. I had the guests who was

0:44

gonna come talk to you fall through, she

0:46

had some flight issues and

0:48

so we had to reschedule. And so

0:50

she'll be back soon. Don't worry. You will

0:52

have a great conversation with her coming up

0:55

in the next couple episodes. Don't worry, but

0:59

I am so lucky to have a wonderful

1:01

friend like Tara deman who stepped up and

1:04

said she would help me make sure that we still

1:06

got an episode to y'all today. So I

1:09

had Tara come and help me do and ask

1:11

me anything episode . So I

1:14

guess with that, I will turn this episode

1:16

over to Tara demand from amnesty.

1:20

Hi Tara. Thank you so much for being here

1:22

today.

1:23

Hello. Thank you for letting me temporarily take

1:25

over your podcast. I know

1:27

I'm so excited. First.

1:30

I will do this one, one Hosty thing and I'll

1:32

hand it over. Do you wanna introduce yourself

1:34

and include your pronouns and then it's

1:37

all you?

1:37

Yeah, I would love to. My name is Tara

1:40

deman . My pronouns are she her and I'm

1:42

with amnesty international USA. And I'm

1:44

really excited to be an interloper

1:46

here and lead this great

1:49

podcast. So today,

1:51

welcome to res fight back and

1:54

we are running an AMA, which isn't

1:56

ask me anything, which I definitely had

1:58

to look up because I am not cool. <laugh>

2:00

dunno, acronyms or the internet,

2:03

but this is some of the questions that

2:05

you are listeners sent in and wanna

2:07

hear more about your Intrepid host. So I

2:10

will be kicking some questions to

2:12

you, Jenny, are you ready?

2:15

I hope so.

2:17

Awesome. Let's

2:18

Do it.

2:20

Let's do this. So

2:22

the first question I think is helpful

2:25

for everyone, which is how

2:27

are you preparing for the forthcoming SCOTUS

2:30

ruling ?

2:32

So I guess I can't say like hiding under my

2:34

bed and crying, like that's probably not helpful.

2:39

It might be real. I mean , if that's what

2:41

you're doing , I have some suggestions , but

2:44

the answer .

2:46

So like a number

2:48

of things, definitely lots

2:50

of rage donating mostly to

2:53

abortion funds. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because

2:55

yeah, they're gonna need the money. I just did

2:57

my latest round to the

3:00

row fund and Oklahoma cuz Oklahoma

3:03

just has like a total abortion

3:05

ban that went into effect. So that's

3:08

a real problem and not just for Oklahoma,

3:11

but like that's where everybody from tech or not

3:13

everybody, but a lot of people from Texas were

3:15

going to get their abortions. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so

3:19

just again, things are gonna be really bad. So

3:22

I'm lucky in that I am able to donate

3:24

mm-hmm <affirmative> so I have been doing donating. I

3:27

also went on a spree

3:30

of buying a bunch of fun

3:33

abortion fund t-shirts this last weekend,

3:36

which I didn't need, but I mean, honestly,

3:38

do you ever not need them ? So

3:42

I , and a bunch more of those, I

3:45

have also been thinking about the things that,

3:48

so like the things I'm preparing like for work,

3:50

right? Like making sure like all of our pressure releases

3:53

already and like thinking about things

3:55

that we need to talk about, like how is this gonna have

3:57

an impact globally? Not just in

3:59

the us , but also

4:02

thinking about the podcast and like what

4:04

topics or what things do we need to talk about

4:06

on here that are gonna be helpful for other people.

4:09

So in that area, I'm thinking

4:11

of like digital security, like what

4:13

things should I be talking about for people who

4:16

are in a state where abortion might get criminalized?

4:18

Like what are things that they need to think about

4:21

around digital security, if they're gonna go get

4:23

an abortion. So I'm just trying to think

4:25

of episodes. That would be helpful. Mm-hmm

4:27

<affirmative> in , in ways that I can help

4:30

out. So that's kind of where my head

4:32

has been at. I'm sure you

4:34

have some suggestions too. So what have you been

4:36

doing

4:37

Well, let me first, I mean, let me first dig

4:39

in a little bit to what you've been saying. So, you know, oftentimes

4:42

I think when people , like, what are you doing? And, and

4:44

like the first answer for lots of us is like donating

4:47

into abortion funds, right? And I'm

4:49

usually very wary of capitalistic

4:51

solutions to systemic problems. And

4:55

I would say if people have funds, this

4:57

is a capitalistic problem as well,

4:59

which is if you have funds to donate, please do.

5:02

And, and of course get your amazing abortion

5:05

merch. And partly because of course it, it

5:07

provides financial support to the abortion funds

5:09

that are making these great t-shirts. But also

5:11

because it is a way of showing your solidarity.

5:14

And I was recently in

5:17

Vermont wearing my, everybody loves

5:19

somebody who has had an abortion t-shirt from N N

5:21

a F . And I had,

5:24

I was stopped by like four or five older

5:26

women in like somewhat discreet

5:29

situations where someone would sort

5:31

of come over and whisper like, oh yes, that's that's

5:33

really, really good. Right. And this is like in a really, really liberal

5:35

space. And the opposite

5:38

example of that is I was wearing my abortion bands.

5:40

T-shirt from TIFA down in Texas two

5:43

months ago, I think. And many,

5:46

many people were like clearly

5:49

just really glad to see

5:51

someone supporting abortion

5:53

and lots and lots of people in Texas support abortion. Right.

5:55

So they were glad to see someone else supporting the

5:57

thing. They also did, whether or not they have a t-shirt . Right.

6:00

And, and so I think one of the ways to think about

6:02

when you're wearing abortion merch is the

6:04

way that we're trained to create solidarity

6:06

and conversation with each other, as well

6:08

as like give your money to abortion funds.

6:11

Absolutely. If you've got an extra dollar boy,

6:14

make it, make it count, but

6:15

Like destigmatizing, like even

6:17

just wearing a shirt that says abortion

6:20

yeah . Is like big.

6:21

Yeah. So I think that's one of the things I'd think

6:23

about too for , for all of us is like, what are

6:25

the ways in which like, we are like,

6:28

yes, donate your money. And like

6:31

friends, we are in this for the long haul, we're

6:33

gonna lose a lot and it's gonna be really tough.

6:35

And we have to lay down the pavement before we can

6:38

walk that road and win. So what

6:40

are we doing to take care of each other? And what are we doing

6:42

to take care of ourselves and what are we doing to

6:44

connect to our community? And like, sometimes it's

6:46

as simple and dumb as wearing a abortion

6:48

bands. T-shirt in Texas where loads

6:51

and loads oftexans are

6:54

fully in supporting human rights and abortion and

6:57

can feel , I know that I feel that solidarity when

6:59

I see other people wearing abortion gear

7:01

out in the wild, right. Obviously at a protest, but

7:04

like just out in the wild where I'm like, yes, my people,

7:06

we outnumber them

7:08

Smile , like head nod or like,

7:10

oh my God , I love your shirt.

7:12

So, so that's, I think a challenge for both of us

7:14

who are, you know, obviously very professionalized

7:16

in this work, but also then

7:19

, um, like what are the ways that we're

7:21

taking care of ourselves in our community long term

7:23

? And I think, and that's really tough in

7:25

these moments of crises , right? So that, that's one

7:27

of the , it's a plug for an abortion t-shirt or whatever

7:29

merch and , and obviously in the safest space, that

7:32

makes sense for you as a listener. But,

7:34

but thinking about the way that we're continuing that conversation.

7:36

And I think, I think one of the challenges

7:39

is like, and also like, where are those points of

7:41

joy, right? Like that this is such

7:44

like just a really time. And

7:46

, and Jen , I never know if I swear on

7:48

your podcast, I'll try and load it back. Your listeners are probably

7:50

like, who is this clown? Yeah . That know

7:52

mean talking

7:53

About abortion ban ,

7:54

I'm talking about abortion ban . So it it's appropriate.

7:56

But like, this is such a time and you

7:59

know, lots of your listeners won't

8:01

be prepping, press releases because they

8:04

don't work in an yeah . And then,

8:06

then that's not their job. And I

8:08

think one of the questions is how do we

8:10

sustain ourselves in this moment? Which

8:13

is also like, are you doing yoga? Are you taking care

8:15

of yourself? Are you drinking lots of water? And I mean, this like

8:17

very like hydrate for God's sake, the abortion movement

8:19

needs hydration. And like, what are

8:21

the ways we're creating joy for each other? And

8:24

it even in the , even in the face of immense loss,

8:27

right? How are we creating joy for each other? So,

8:29

so what have I been doing? I mean, I've been donating to abortion

8:32

funds. I have been obviously

8:34

work staff getting P running

8:36

. We've been launching campaign tags. We've been coordinating

8:39

with state base work. I mean, prepping for the state

8:41

work. And , and that's, that is a very tangible thing

8:43

people can do is like, yeah , wherever, whatever

8:45

state you live in, whether it's a quote unquote good

8:47

state or a bad state, like who

8:50

on the ground is doing that work in campaigning, like

8:52

find out how you can be a , a part of that because

8:54

that's, you can control right now. Like you can't

8:56

control the Supreme court, but also like, how

8:59

are you just taking care of our

9:01

community? Right. Which is how are we reaching

9:03

out and checking in with each other? And, and

9:05

not that it makes it better. It doesn't, it's really, really

9:07

bad, but it, it makes it like

9:09

we can survive this together and actually carve out

9:11

pieces of joy. So, yeah . I

9:14

mean, I've been, I've been struggling with obviously the trying to

9:16

trying to create joy, but because there's

9:18

so much we're gonna lose. Right. But like, I

9:21

know that we will win. It's just that

9:23

we have to get through this and we have to do it together

9:25

and, and we can only win together. Right. So, so

9:28

in addition to donating and wearing abortion,

9:30

T-shirts

9:30

Like, same, like the exact top me

9:32

of things. Like I've been trying to focus on things that

9:34

I can control. And sometimes

9:37

that's as simple as like, oh, the

9:39

actual thing around the house I haven't gotten done

9:41

in maybe two years that finally I'm like, I will

9:43

put that shelf back up. Right. <laugh>

9:45

Oh my God. I've totally . Yeah . Yeah. Cause

9:46

Like that's a way to actually exert control . And then

9:49

also trying to think is what is one thing I

9:51

can control in this space that

9:53

we can't control the Supreme court. Right. But I can

9:55

control checking out the

9:57

like I'm basic , like you in DC and

10:00

checking back in with the DC abortion fund and seeing

10:02

what they need right now, or checking in, if you live

10:04

outside of DC and your state, like, what

10:07

is the movement going on there? And today the one

10:09

thing I did was check in on that, like, I didn't have to

10:11

solve anything. I didn't have to, you know, but I , I

10:13

checked in on that. So yeah. But it's

10:15

been tough. I mean, as , as you know, which,

10:18

I mean, this dovetails really well into

10:20

the next question from listeners, which

10:22

is there is so much happening right now.

10:25

How are you dealing with burnout? <affirmative>

10:28

So this is like, I feel like always like complicated

10:31

question, because burnout

10:34

is like one of those things. It , there's not like

10:36

a end. I mean,

10:38

I'm sure at some point there is, but I don't feel it any

10:41

time soon. I feel like last

10:43

year I went through, I I'm

10:45

hoping the worst of it. Lots

10:48

of like crying for, I mean,

10:50

for like the slightest reason, like you looked at

10:52

me funny and like, right . I'm I'm

10:54

like crying on zooms and

10:56

yeah . Yeah . I'm hoping that was the worst of it. But

10:59

I also do worry a little bit. I, at the point

11:01

where emotions are kind of

11:03

dull, like yeah.

11:06

Yes. I, I worry about that.

11:08

<laugh> I worry . I'm like, am , am I worse

11:10

? Like, is the , was like the crying, the

11:12

good part. And like, now I'm like so

11:15

much more burned out or if I'd gotten

11:17

things more under control, I

11:19

don't know . I'm not sure where that is. Mm-hmm <affirmative>

11:21

but I know like when the Supreme court ruling

11:23

came down, I was like, this really

11:26

sucks. I'm mad, but I don't like feel

11:29

mad. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and it's really hard.

11:31

I don't know . It feels hard to explain, like everything

11:33

just feels a little muffled.

11:35

No,

11:35

Yes . And that not good. Like I

11:37

assume like I can't, that can't be good. Yeah.

11:40

I bet a lot of your listeners are listeners.

11:42

Now that I'm a cohost for the day. Um,

11:45

I had a lot of listeners. I mean, everything you

11:47

said resonated so strongly with me,

11:50

I feel like when the decision was leaked, I,

11:53

I was shocked because we weren't expecting

11:55

it to be least no , not , not shocked with the

11:57

outcome.

11:58

I was having a perfectly pleasant, Monday Orly

12:00

program , whatever.

12:01

Exactly. And I felt

12:04

more than anything I

12:06

felt empty. Yeah. And

12:08

I felt like, I felt like a , a bit

12:10

of a , like a Gollum , like a , like a terracotta

12:13

pot. That's like it's. And that

12:15

specifically all the water had been dumped out. And

12:17

if you know anything about gardening, terracotta, seeps

12:19

water, so , okay . Cause it's like a terrible way to

12:22

plant things actually. And I felt so empty.

12:24

I remember thinking, I feel like a terracotta

12:26

pot, which of course is a pun on my name I hadn't thought about,

12:28

but like, I , I just like, I've been, I've just

12:30

all the water's dumped out and I have nothing to give. Like

12:33

I just like , I'd have this dullness to my voice

12:35

when explaining when someone would call me, like,

12:38

what is this? And I had to explain to our staff and I had to explain to families

12:40

and friends that you are in different lines of work or, or

12:42

not paying as close attention. Which of course totally understandable.

12:45

And I just felt dull and

12:47

like dull like that, that illness . I

12:49

think that look, you know, like not

12:52

a medical doctor, but you there's a lot of

12:54

research out there talking about how, like,

12:56

we are not designed as

12:59

bodies to take on the amount of trauma that

13:01

we've been collectively experiencing over

13:03

the last six years and, and

13:06

particularly within of the pandemic. But of course,

13:08

like four years of, of real political violence

13:10

being so present in,

13:13

in the national daily life, which of course had been

13:15

extremely present for a number of

13:17

our community members and particularly black and brown people. But

13:20

like, we're not, we're not equipped to

13:22

deal with this much trauma. And I do wonder

13:24

how much of this is a continuation

13:27

of that, that impact.

13:29

But I , I do think it's, you know, I , I really

13:31

appreciate you sharing that

13:34

one cuz I feel the exact same and you and I haven't

13:36

had a chance to talk lately , which is what sucks.

13:38

But, but I , I would guess a lot of your

13:40

listeners have the same thing. And

13:42

I, I think that these are also

13:44

really classic symptoms of anxiety and

13:46

depression, which to me

13:49

having thought about this as you

13:51

know, I thought, yeah, but like , it just feels super normal that

13:53

in the face of like unspeakable horror,

13:56

you would feel this way. Right . And that's,

13:58

that's also true, but I , I do think it's

14:00

a good plug for folks to be plugged into

14:02

mental health professionals. I,

14:04

I think about that too, the way that this has sort

14:07

of weighed on all of us living our

14:09

normal mental health lives. Right. And that

14:11

now it's a question of like it's normal

14:13

to feel bad and empty, but it doesn't,

14:16

you know, is that the way we have to live?

14:18

And , and I don't know, you know , it's , that's deeply, deeply personal.

14:21

And I think that like, it's not advice

14:23

for folks, but I , I do wonder, and I

14:25

wonder how you and I can think about that too.

14:27

Like what does it mean again,

14:29

to wanna find joy in a really, really

14:31

up world <laugh>

14:33

So I'm trying to be proactive mm-hmm

14:35

<affirmative> and know that things are like,

14:38

June's gonna be bad. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> like , I

14:40

know June's gonna be bad. So I am

14:42

actually off next week and

14:45

I am so like the week when

14:47

y'all are listening to this, I am off. I will

14:49

hopefully be staying off

14:51

of social media. It's a curse. And sometimes

14:53

you still go on, but I'm really going

14:56

to make the effort to not be there.

14:58

I have no plans. I

15:01

don't, I don't have anything planned I'm going to

15:03

do. I am just going to do what makes

15:05

my heart happy. And honestly, if that's nothing,

15:08

it's nothing. And I'm

15:10

looking forward to that, watching some bad TV, reading

15:13

some lovely books, I

15:16

, I just, that's where I'm at and I'm

15:18

really looking forward to it.

15:20

And I think that unplugging there surely there's

15:22

like an app for that, that you can be like, don't let me social

15:24

media between the hours or whatever. Like the

15:26

Internet's figured out a solution for itself. <laugh> but

15:29

like, yeah . But like unplugging is

15:31

a central part of being plugged in. And I

15:33

think for me, and again, I'd assume the last of

15:35

your listeners that I can feel sometimes a guilt

15:37

when I'm not like top of my game and

15:39

like a hundred percent in the fight at this

15:42

very moment. I need

15:42

To do all the things I need your ,

15:44

All the things all the time, or I personally, and

15:46

I'm

15:46

A bad advocate. Yeah . I'm

15:48

A bad advocate. And like, I am

15:50

the reason, you know, et cetera . Yeah . And like there's

15:52

no small amount of Hubers there, but it's also,

15:54

I think the guilt and the weight that all of us

15:56

feel who are in this movement who care about this

15:59

because of how important it is . It is natural than

16:02

to feel that It's personal. And

16:05

so how can people unplug,

16:08

even at this, the most crucial moment, how

16:10

can you take a breath so that

16:12

you can breathe in so that you

16:14

can come back to breathe out, right? Like,

16:16

yeah . Yeah, no, I'm really, really glad you're off next

16:18

week. And I have a number of bad

16:21

television. I will be sending you , you

16:23

. Yes . Like so much. I

16:25

have bad television is all I watch I

16:27

, someone once ask , like, what was it? Do

16:30

you watch like 20 there's something 24

16:32

, the Ham's tale. I was like, no, I watch cartoons. Like

16:34

<laugh> right . I watch like seriously

16:36

Serious , serious be through so much. Yeah.

16:40

Yeah . And it , for folks that can watch horror and

16:42

like really serious, like good for you. That's

16:45

great. I don't think that's anything bad, but my brain's

16:47

like, Nope. <laugh> like , we were dealing with

16:49

that all day long. We're gonna watch some really

16:52

like questionably written bad

16:55

TV. <laugh> where the joke

16:57

is. How bad it's. Yeah . Maybe

16:59

when this publishes we'll go back online.

17:01

Yeah. I mean, listen, the great British baking

17:03

show can only do so much. Right.

17:05

Like that really got me through a

17:08

while . <laugh> like , you know , you can tell when things

17:10

are like bad, I'm like, I need to watch great

17:12

British baking

17:12

Show. I mean, it is just like a , you

17:15

know, Xanax to the soul, right. Like , yeah . And

17:17

also it's, I think this is, I mean, again,

17:19

not a mental health professional, like, but

17:21

there's something to be said. I , I do

17:24

this a lot where, when things feel the most outta

17:26

control, I do something

17:28

that is very physical, obviously

17:30

not exercise, which would be healthy for me. And my doctor's

17:33

like, please God exercise. And I'm like, okay , it's

17:35

just not gonna happen. But you know, like my

17:37

heart rate is always the wrong weight or

17:39

whatever, but like that, like I'll bake

17:41

something and I know you baked a lot and like,

17:43

or I'll fix something around the house or I'll build something

17:46

or I'll go out into the garden, I'll do something

17:48

with my power tools. Like I love power tools. I

17:50

am my father's daughter. Like, but something that's

17:52

really corporal because it's like so contained.

17:55

Right. Whereas this is the fight of all and

17:57

Thing being done

17:57

And it's done. Yeah. And then when you bake that thing

18:00

, I

18:00

Have this thing.

18:01

Yeah. And then you're like, and then I ate this thing.

18:03

So I would strongly recommend, so all you listeners

18:05

out there, what is one thing that you can do

18:07

and you don't have to do it well, no , if

18:09

you don't have to be a master knitter to knit something

18:11

or a master baker, like do a thing that has an

18:14

end point and then be like, I made

18:16

this ohoh , it kinda sucks. Oh, well like , you

18:18

know ? Yeah . Yeah . I mean this , the problem

18:20

is Jenny , you have set the baking bar

18:23

very high <laugh> . So we

18:25

could, I do love the idea of next week when

18:27

you're off of social in this points . Those of

18:29

us that are still on going through and doing a bake off

18:32

on your Twitter feed. Oh see

18:34

all the great stuff. Like what are people doing to take care of

18:36

themselves? I , I think that's actually, as

18:38

you're listening to this podcast, like on Twitter,

18:41

under the show, you know, what are you doing

18:43

to take care of yourself? Yeah. Because

18:46

we need every single one of us in this fight, which

18:48

means we need to be able to step out of this fight for a

18:50

moment and take a breath.

18:51

Yes. And if you need to step away, step

18:53

away. Cause I mean, it's not like,

18:56

it's not just a saying this is a marathon, not

18:58

a sprint. And like it's a really race too .

19:01

It's a really race . It is a bat

19:03

Race . Step away when you need pass

19:05

, you're mad. Like it's the time

19:07

That's right. Pass me the Baton and I will

19:09

pass it off and it's time for me. And then I'll come back

19:11

in on the next, I don't know how relay do you come

19:13

back in on relay racist ,

19:15

But this is a

19:16

Recurring relay race . Right? Like you

19:18

pass the Baton so you can take a break and then someone

19:20

else runs around and they'll pass it back to you. So

19:22

yeah. It's a good metaphor. Cause it's really real.

19:25

Yeah. And like, you also need to know

19:27

that you can't do all the things, right?

19:29

Yeah . Like I have really figured out

19:32

over the last several years that like

19:34

big crowd based things

19:37

mm-hmm <affirmative> give me anxiety. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I went to the

19:39

March for our lives and started

19:41

to have like a mini panic attack. Like I

19:44

was fine until I wasn't. Right . And I needed to

19:47

be out of there and I couldn't get out of there very

19:49

easily. Mm-hmm <affirmative> if you were there, like it

19:51

was mm-hmm <affirmative> there weren't easy exits mm-hmm

19:53

<affirmative> and I just can't do that to

19:55

myself anymore. So like, I always feel guilty

19:58

for not going to like marches, but

20:01

I'm like, it is not

20:03

good for me, so I need to do other

20:05

things and like, so finding what

20:07

your things are that are, that make you

20:10

happy and like that you like doing

20:13

are the things that are good to do.

20:15

Yeah. And also like there's

20:17

too many cooks in the kitchen, you know, a restaurant

20:20

needs lots of different types of workers. You

20:22

need someone at the front, you need someone who cleans. You need

20:24

someone who cooks. You need someone who eats, like, you

20:26

know, you need all those things and that's the same at the

20:28

movement. Right. So yeah. I mean, short , I find

20:30

those, those really invigorating and

20:33

that I'm tired in cranky, but you know , that's,

20:36

that's not the only way. That's just a very visible

20:38

way to make change and it can be very cathartic, but

20:41

it's it's I

20:41

Like the small things at the Supreme court. Yeah

20:44

. Cause like it's the smaller crowd mm-hmm

20:46

<affirmative> and like that

20:49

I feel that one is, has

20:51

been better for me doing those. I haven't done it

20:53

since the pandemic, but

20:56

I think, well, yeah, gosh, the plague. Right. I think the

20:58

other thing is right. There's things that feel

21:01

like they're the right thing, cuz they're very visible

21:04

and I , yeah . One of the questions right. Is like,

21:06

what can you do right now?

21:09

And it might not be the thing that hits the photo on

21:11

the paper. And for those of us that are based in DC,

21:13

like that is where the photo gets taken right at the court.

21:16

You're like, oh, I should have been there. It's like, or not, you should

21:18

have been calling your auntie to have that conversation

21:21

that, you know, they've been putting off or

21:23

like talking to someone who

21:25

needed the mental health break together

21:28

to talk to how hard it is or like taking

21:30

your own break because you need to be ready

21:32

for the movement. Right. Like, so those are

21:34

really visible. And obviously they're like really Instagramable

21:36

to prove like, don't worry. I did my, I got my merit

21:38

badge. Yeah . I did my like abortion merit

21:40

badge today. But like, yeah, the , the movement

21:43

needs accountants too. Y'all like, you know, do do

21:45

the thing, do the thing that you can do and

21:47

that , and we need that thing. Yeah , yeah. That

21:50

, you know, so gosh, just one

21:52

out of the questions that's also from the AMA

21:54

and is really related, is like, what

21:57

is it that made you so passionate about this issue

21:59

when you're thinking about the tactics that now are

22:02

really are life giving to you, but like what

22:04

is it about this issue that made you wanna

22:06

get involved? I mean, did you always wanna be involved

22:08

in reproductive

22:09

Rights? Oh my God. No. If you were to like

22:11

go talk to like little, little Jenny

22:13

and were like, you're gonna be like working on abortion

22:16

or whatever. So a little Catholic school, Jenny , would've

22:18

definitely been like, what I

22:21

dunno about that, but, but

22:23

I also can like trace it back to there.

22:25

So like, I , I always say that like, I

22:27

didn't have like a big aha moment

22:30

mm-hmm <affirmative> but there were like seeds planted,

22:33

like throughout mm-hmm <affirmative> my life.

22:35

So one and

22:37

I feel like I tell this story a lot, but it really

22:40

was big to me for like a number of reasons.

22:42

And again, I went to Catholic school and

22:46

a girl in my class asked me if I wanted

22:48

to go with her to go to Madison to go save

22:50

babies. Mm . And

22:52

I was like, I mean, yeah, obviously

22:54

like I would love to go save babies

22:57

mm-hmm <affirmative> and like going home and

22:59

like, Hey mom, can I go with so

23:01

and so to go to Madison and save babies and

23:04

her being like she

23:10

did in a very , I

23:13

found very important way. She

23:16

didn't tell me like, this is what you should

23:18

think, or that is wrong.

23:20

She really sat me down and was like, well, have

23:22

you thought about what about this situation?

23:25

Or what about this? What if this is

23:27

happening? Or she just like gave

23:30

me a fuller picture and then said,

23:32

if you still wanna go, you can

23:34

go. And

23:37

she gave me the agency to make my own

23:39

choices with more information. And

23:42

that was ground changing, not just for planning,

23:44

repro, proceeds, but like for life.

23:47

Right. Like learn

23:49

more about the issue and then make up your

23:51

own mind. And I know so

23:53

many people who weren't raised that way.

23:55

Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like , this is what you should think. And

23:58

like, to me, that was just like really groundbreaking

24:00

that that's how my mom approached it. Yeah

24:03

. And like, I remember talking to her later and

24:05

being like, this

24:07

was like so important to me. And she's like,

24:09

I don't , I don't re I don't know what you're talking about.

24:14

So to her , it was just like another day, but it really

24:16

stuck with me. Like I can picture sitting at

24:20

the , in like in the sunroom at the counter.

24:23

Like I , I can see it. Right.

24:26

It's so funny. And then again, Catholic

24:29

school . So I had sex ed from a

24:31

nun who , um,

24:33

as you can imagine, was very education

24:37

about sex ed. Right .

24:38

Super fact based .

24:40

Yeah. Super fact based like, I , I really,

24:42

I always just say I had the mean girls sex

24:44

ed education, right? Like, you're gonna have sex, you're

24:46

gonna get this horrible disease and you're gonna die. And

24:49

so again like that did not make me, like it

24:51

go all in on repro. And

24:54

it's just like things that came back later when I

24:56

started getting more involved and

24:58

being like, I don't want anybody to

25:00

get that education I had mm-hmm

25:03

<affirmative> like, it did not prepare me for life later. Like

25:05

that is terrible. Let's make sure that this

25:08

doesn't happen to anybody else. And

25:10

then just like all of a sudden it was just like

25:12

the passion and fire just exploded.

25:15

But yeah, if you were like to go back and tell younger

25:17

me, like, I could never imagine that this would

25:19

be what I'm doing for a number

25:21

of reasons. Like , I couldn't imagine myself talking

25:25

on a microphone about something. Cause like that's

25:27

not my jam either, but mm-hmm , <affirmative>

25:29

, it's something I really have found. I really enjoy doing.

25:33

Yeah. I grew up in a really conservative

25:35

town too in a rural , a rural space.

25:37

We grew up in California. Yeah . But like in a really rural, really

25:40

rural town and my

25:42

parents were the only Democrats in town and

25:45

they weren't like particularly hyper progressive, but

25:47

you know, comparatively and I

25:50

Don know that there was really an aha moment either. Right.

25:52

You just, yeah . At some point you're just

25:54

like, yeah. Do you gotta do this

25:56

work? There's no women's liberation without this.

25:59

Unless there no L LGBT equality without

26:01

this there's no racial equity without

26:03

this. Right. Like,

26:04

Like it just was like baked in. Right? Yeah . Like my mom

26:07

was like really in, and I'm

26:09

sure you had this in a similar way, but like, my mom

26:11

was very much into service and like, she

26:13

served on a lot of boards and did a lot of volunteering.

26:16

So like, it was just like baked in. And

26:18

so, like I said, not an aha moment,

26:21

but like things that happened

26:23

that like triggered like, yeah, no,

26:25

this is not cool. So like I had

26:28

a roommate in college who was very

26:31

conservative and part of like a really

26:33

conservative religion . And

26:35

so was very like outspoken on

26:38

like being pro-life and anti-gay and

26:40

all these things. And like,

26:42

Mm-hmm , <affirmative>

26:43

Just being like, whoa, whoa , whoa, whoa . Not

26:45

cool. Not okay. And like,

26:49

but it wouldn't , wasn't something that like I

26:51

had like the aha moment. It was just like that pushback

26:53

right away. I don't know .

26:55

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you

26:57

know, thinking about human rights more broadly,

26:59

which I was doing sort of earlier, there

27:02

was just a moment where it's like, you can't do any, you can't

27:04

have any of this without abortion. You

27:07

can't. Yeah . None of this happens without

27:09

abortion and that's true for a number of intersectional issues.

27:11

Right. But I, I think it's like a , I

27:14

mean, as a CIS woman also thinking, what

27:16

does it mean to have equality in this world? And

27:19

what does equity look like? And you

27:21

know, and those were , those are big thoughts

27:24

for some , you know, in college

27:26

they feel like gigantic thoughts. Right ? No one's ever thought

27:28

this that way.

27:29

Right . Never .

27:31

Yes . And now it's like these 12 year olds are like, yeah, obviously

27:34

do . And I , I think that was a big turning point

27:36

for me is I was really focused

27:39

in, on women's rights work and, and

27:42

sort of like a broad version of it. I

27:44

do remember though , when I was, this one was really gonna date

27:46

me, probably your listeners are much

27:48

younger and cooler, but I was,

27:51

I , it was really young. It must have been like eight and

27:54

we were going to a political rally

27:57

and it was in Fresno. I grew

27:59

up outside of Fresno and

28:02

it was, my mom went, it was like,

28:04

it was for the democratic candidate and

28:06

oh gosh, I'll have to think of the year. And my mom went

28:08

and there were people outside with

28:11

those signs of like dismembered fetuses.

28:14

Oh

28:14

Yes. And my mom is like five

28:18

foot. She's like, she's actually like four 11. She

28:20

likes to say she's five foot <laugh> she's not

28:23

Remember being about my height.

28:24

Yeah. Yeah. She's four 11 . And

28:27

she lost her. Like

28:31

she lost. She

28:33

just was like, how dare you?

28:35

It was the Michael Duka rally, which

28:38

will not resonate for loads of people who are under

28:40

40. But , um , Michael

28:43

Duka R I P that campaign who was a democratic,

28:45

who lost to Georgia HW Bush , Georgia , B

28:47

Bush's father. And my mom just

28:49

like went , she doesn't nuts. I mean, and I, my,

28:51

I knew that she was pro-choice,

28:54

which is how she would've said it then, but

28:56

it wasn't something that she was like hyper passionate

28:58

about. And then

29:01

she , she was just like, no, these are lies. Like

29:03

these are lies and how dare you. And

29:05

I remember being like, well, whatever's gotten her

29:07

that fired up. I should probably figure this out. <laugh>

29:11

um , and then they came and like picketed our school too

29:13

. We , we lived in this really rural town.

29:16

It could go up in an extremely rural space, like 30

29:18

miles, even more like two

29:20

, the closest city, which was Fresno. Fresno . Yes

29:22

. And in town with about a thousand people. Oh,

29:25

I feel , yeah . Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, so I , I

29:27

often say I grew up in the Midwest of California and

29:30

the folks with those big signs, the dismembered

29:32

Fe of signs came to our school and we lived in

29:34

the , the house right across from the high school. Like we're the one

29:36

intersection in town and like there

29:38

. And then my dad also, oh , I love it

29:40

. The one intersection, we were literal one intersection

29:43

in town.

29:43

I mean, I didn't live in the town where I went to high

29:45

school, but I relate to that. Yeah . Cause that's

29:47

what that was. Yeah .

29:48

Like small town and like people have extremely

29:51

strong heart beliefs around

29:53

abortion and mostly most people

29:55

opposed abortion on deeply religious grounds

29:58

that I knew. And I, you know, growing

30:00

up, I like, yeah, feel , I don't know , abortion feels wrong that

30:02

right . You know, but then these people came with these signs. I'm

30:04

like, oh no, they're they're lunatic. Right. And

30:07

then the more you learn, you're like, oh, this,

30:09

this debate has been co-opted and this nothing

30:11

I sort of thought about this was right. So

30:14

yeah . Again, yeah . Not like an aha moment, but, but

30:17

then you get here and you're like, I can't, there's no way

30:19

that you can't not do this. Right. It's

30:21

a , yeah . Nothing that I want in this world

30:23

to be is happens without

30:26

abortion. I think that's been a really interesting journey

30:28

for me. You know, always you're supposed to do these visions,

30:30

which is like, what's the world you want to be. And

30:32

if , if folks that are listening, work in nonprofit , that's

30:35

supposed to be the like thing you pitch to

30:37

people, not the like things that are wrong. And

30:39

all I am is like driven by intense fire

30:42

hatred for the things that are wrong. Like, and just like, yes

30:44

, the , the sun , no , the fire of a thousand

30:47

sons of, of hate. And which

30:49

is like such a one ,

30:51

Which is obviously why we're friends, which is

30:52

Why we're friends. And it's also like every mental

30:55

health professional in the world is probably like, please, no . So

30:57

like what's the world we wanna live in. Right. And

31:00

like, what's the world we want it to be. And

31:02

those that's the vision. Like

31:04

none of that happens without abortion. And

31:06

now it's just like so obvious, it feels like so obvious

31:09

that we do this work. Right. But it's so funny that you

31:11

and I have had such parallel, parallel

31:13

journey. I know. Right. What's, you know,

31:15

what's something when you've been doing this work in

31:17

the variations that you've done it, but like, what's something you're

31:19

really proud of having achieved.

31:23

So what this

31:25

podcast like , like just

31:28

in its entirety, like I

31:31

am inherently pretty introverted.

31:33

I mean, I'm very introverted. I like, I,

31:37

so like the thought of doing something like

31:39

this was a little terrifying and I definitely rejected

31:41

it when it came up. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, but

31:44

I overcame all that and,

31:47

and I'm doing it. And so like, that's pretty amazing

31:49

in and of itself. But I

31:52

was terrified this

31:54

year. We did an episode talking about

31:57

intimate partner violence. Mm-hmm <affirmative> , mm-hmm

31:59

, <affirmative> how it's a repro issue. And

32:01

I was so nervous to

32:05

talk about it on there. Talk about my

32:08

experience with it. I

32:10

really feel very lucky that I

32:12

interviewed Monica Edwards for that. Like,

32:15

she, I think together

32:17

we found the strength to like tell our

32:19

stories and like have a really, I

32:22

mean, not light, but like not

32:24

feel the stress of it in the moment, like

32:27

telling each other the stories. And like, we

32:29

ended up talking a long time after about

32:31

a number of things and, and like, that

32:33

really helped, but like the

32:36

thought of like, when , when it came time to like push publish,

32:38

like I just like really nervous again.

32:41

And I'm just like really proud of

32:43

myself cuz like that was like the first time I really

32:45

talked about it other than like kind of a really

32:48

just Lansing reference. Mm-hmm <affirmative> maybe a

32:51

little bit, you know, I, like

32:53

I said, I'm inherently introverted and I , I

32:55

let people in, but like, you

32:57

know, maybe there's like a , a bit of a wall of

33:00

like mm-hmm

33:00

<affirmative>

33:01

You're to here. Right . And so it felt like

33:04

opening it a little further and like

33:06

being more open, which I

33:08

thought was a big step.

33:09

Well, and like to the worldwide web <laugh> yeah

33:12

. As the young folks call it the

33:14

worldwide web, I mean like that's everybody,

33:16

right? Yeah. No, I, that episode was so

33:18

powerful and so good. I mean all the episodes are so,

33:20

so good. I think that, you

33:23

know, it can be very abstract

33:25

when we talk about these issues. Yeah . Especially

33:27

if you work in law policy and we're trying to

33:29

like, you know, we're trying to change law policy

33:31

and code and all these kinda like really technical, nerdy

33:33

things. And like, as I adjust my glasses and

33:36

I'm like, lemme tell you about the , you know, the following

33:38

treaties that we're violating, which again, I'm

33:40

a hundred percent gonna do that I'm

33:41

Telling , but also yes. Yeah. But

33:42

Also yes, but like, you know, at the end, this

33:44

matters because like we

33:47

all deserve

33:47

To live like about the people, right.

33:49

Dignity . Yeah. Like at the end it matters cuz we're humans

33:51

that have human experiences and it , and it's

33:53

so powerful. It's very generous .

33:55

And I think it ties back to like the burnout, right?

33:57

Like it's easy to focus on the policies

33:59

and things. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because if I think

34:01

about the people, like that's when I

34:03

talked about like being really numb around SCOTUS

34:06

. But when I started to think about like all of the people

34:08

who aren't gonna get access to abortion

34:11

that they need, like that's when I started to

34:13

cry. And so like I can't focus mm-hmm

34:15

<affirmative> on the people because that's

34:17

the part that just like utterly will break

34:20

my heart. I need to think of the

34:22

policy changes. Yeah . That need to happen to

34:24

ensure that the people get the services

34:26

they need. And so, but it is really

34:28

important to bring it back to like that personal

34:31

level, because that's why it's important.

34:33

Right. But it's, it's hard to focus on

34:35

that cuz like that's the part I feel like that

34:37

just it'll break me man

34:39

.

34:40

Yeah. Well, cause it's , it's devastating.

34:43

Yeah . Right . It's devastating. Yeah.

34:45

I , I

34:48

feel that, I think that like, you know, I think one

34:50

of it's also like how do we find again? Like, man,

34:52

all I'm doing is talking about joy. I feel like Oprah <laugh>

34:55

for like 40 billion , less, less , less wealthy,

34:58

obviously <laugh> but otherwise we're the exact same

35:00

. Well it's like I get a

35:02

Card . Oh my God .

35:05

Yeah . You get a card . You I've gotta use

35:07

Tupperware if you want it. <laugh> it's

35:10

it's got some spaghetti stains on it. I'm so sorry

35:12

. It's not great .

35:14

<laugh>

35:15

Like, you know, this is a dark time in

35:17

the world and it's a tough time. It's

35:20

certainly one of definitely the , one of the darker

35:22

timelines I've been in this multiverse, <laugh>

35:25

called America in terms of this, you know, moment.

35:27

But we, this country's had lots and lots of dark

35:29

times obviously, but like things are hard and they're

35:31

really bad and they're really. And like we

35:34

can't pretend they're not, but what we can

35:36

do is still find joy in connection and

35:38

like, you know, and do these really

35:41

hard things together, joyfully

35:44

and there's a real privilege.

35:46

I mean, there's certainly a real privilege to being able to professionalize

35:49

that work and do that from nine to five

35:51

or in, you know, in DC from 10 to eight <laugh>

35:54

whatever might be . Right . But like no

35:56

one comes in real early, but we don't roll home early

35:58

either. But you know, so there's a real privilege

36:00

there, but it's also partly because it's like,

36:03

it's a privilege to do hard things with

36:05

friends, Paul Farmer. Right. Who was

36:07

the position physicians

36:09

and health PIH . That was yeah . Yeah

36:12

. I , I don't work that much in sort of global

36:14

health partners in health partners in health. Thank you. Partners

36:16

in health who started that organization? They do a

36:18

load of like targeting

36:21

the most underserved spaces

36:23

for healthcare and globally.

36:26

And he founded this, I don't know , way back when, and,

36:28

and recently passed away the last couple of months, somewhat early.

36:30

He was like, in his sixties, it was real shock for the global health

36:33

community. And, and one of his quotes,

36:35

I was really moved by, you

36:37

know, they , he talked, he'd been interviewed a

36:39

number of times with like, how do you stay hopeful and blah, blah,

36:42

blah. And, and he was just like, it's, it's

36:44

a pleasure to do this work. Like it is to be

36:46

able to do hard things with friends. Right.

36:49

Which doesn't mean like the thing is not really crummy

36:51

that you're doing, which is like in , you

36:53

know, looking at the like devastating impact

36:55

of colonialism on, on like healthcare

36:57

in Haiti. Right. But, but like

36:59

to do hard things with friends, you know, that

37:02

that's where that's, that's a pleasure. Like

37:04

it's actually fun. It's good. And feels

37:06

sometimes guilty and this

37:08

Community is amazing .

37:10

Yeah. Like this community's amazing. And

37:13

like, yeah, we're gonna do , we're gonna do really

37:15

hard things. And we wish we didn't have to, it'd be so

37:17

much better if we could just go do anything else.

37:20

Cause this was taken care of. But like we have the privilege

37:22

of, of being together in this together , whether you're

37:24

professional or not. Right. We, we will do hard

37:26

things together. And that is fun. That

37:29

is interesting. Yes . So yeah, no,

37:31

that was a , that was a really powerful episode.

37:33

And, and partly cuz it is about doing hard things together,

37:35

having that conversation together. Right. Yeah.

37:38

You know, you've talked about on

37:40

the podcast, thinking of other episodes and,

37:43

and also sort of dovetailing on the question, what you're proud of.

37:45

You've talked about imposter syndrome a couple

37:47

of times and I'm

37:50

wondering what advice you have for,

37:54

I don't know, let's say the random listener

37:56

out there also known as myself who

37:59

like, how do we get better at not feeling like a

38:01

fake?

38:04

So this is like, like transparency

38:07

of like, I really

38:09

struggle with this one, but I also feel

38:11

like, again, I'll take this back to my conversation with

38:13

Monica and like when we were

38:15

talking after the interview, so the

38:17

part y'all, didn't hear, we were

38:19

talking about like the voice in your head and

38:22

I'm like, I don't understand like my imposter

38:24

syndrome, like my parents didn't raise me that way. And I'm

38:27

like, I just don't understand where it comes from. I'm like,

38:29

holy. Is that where that

38:31

voice is coming from? From

38:33

like the person who kept saying I wasn't

38:35

good enough. And like all of those things

38:37

that it has now become my internal mono

38:41

that I always refer to it as the

38:43

Statler in Waldorf, in my head . And

38:45

some of y'all may too young for that . But like that's

38:48

for the Muppet. Right ? Like I

38:51

just feel like there

38:54

are like , they're constantly in my head. Yeah . And so

38:57

I, for a lot of it I've

38:59

run like mitigation strategies

39:01

around it. Like I just try

39:04

to not give them space. So one

39:07

of the things is like the

39:09

podcast, like that's like the one where I

39:12

can think of like the clearest strategies, like I've

39:14

come across to deal with. It is

39:17

after I get done recording this with Tara, I

39:19

will have the little voice in my head being like you said

39:21

this wrong, you should have said this better. And

39:24

like, you sounded stupid or

39:26

like , what are you doing ? You don't know what you're talking about . And

39:28

so I don't re-listen

39:31

right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because all I will hear

39:33

like Tara and I had this amazing, lovely conversation

39:36

and I will hear like, oh,

39:39

but did you hear like this two second clip?

39:41

Mm-hmm where you sounded like an idiot. Like, and that'll

39:43

just like replay in my head. So like my

39:45

coping strategy is to like, not give it space.

39:48

So I won't re-listen unless I have to for

39:50

like editing mm-hmm , <affirmative> where I need to tell

39:53

my editor that there's like a chunk we need to cut

39:55

or something. So I try to

39:57

not give it space. And I really

40:00

just try not to listen to it. It's

40:02

hard and it's hard. And like, I

40:05

also find it hard cuz I feel like I work with

40:07

so many amazing

40:10

advocates like Tara included and I

40:12

hear them talking about things and I'm just

40:14

like, y'all are so talented

40:17

and so smart. And I am not that person. I

40:21

feel like I , what every single one of us is

40:23

thinking. And , and I think that's the important

40:25

thing, which is why I try to keep talking

40:27

about it because I'm

40:30

sure that some people feel that way about me.

40:32

Like I may , I may never get to that point,

40:34

but like for sure, I'm

40:37

sure that way to some people. And so like, we all

40:39

are impressed by these amazing people we are

40:42

surrounded with and find that intimidating

40:44

and that feeds the voice. So like I really just

40:46

try to do what I can to not

40:49

give it space mm-hmm <affirmative> and that has

40:51

for most, the part has been pretty successful.

40:54

And then I've also learned, I think, I

40:56

can't remember if I talked about this on the podcast or not,

40:59

but I have a really hard time with the word expert.

41:01

It does not resonate with me. I

41:03

cringe from it when someone's like, you're a repro

41:06

expert. I'm like, no, I'm not mm-hmm

41:08

<affirmative> like, I really have a hard time with that. And it's,

41:10

and it's really like that word. So I,

41:14

I had some coaching around podcasting

41:16

and I , and I came up with that cause like you're a podcast expert

41:19

and I'm like , no , I'm a podcast expert

41:21

. Like I have this podcast, but I'm not an expert.

41:25

And like really it's like the word . So

41:27

we were like looking up on this . Thisor like

41:29

other options. And like, it

41:31

really seems to be like just the word expert. Like

41:33

that makes me cringe. So we came up with

41:36

I'm a reproductive health and rights Maven and

41:39

I, I love the word I love Maven and

41:41

that one doesn't give me a full body cringe.

41:45

I think, you know the question with expertise, right?

41:47

Like, and it came from academia

41:49

before it came from DC and like

41:51

expertise is this like heavily

41:54

guarded word of like

41:56

white male affirmation.

42:00

And like, so like

42:02

I think one of the things I've when I've thought that like,

42:04

oh, am I an expert in X, Y , Z , right. Is

42:06

like, well, first of all, like literate write down who is

42:08

the expert then ? Like not like a person, but like what

42:11

would it be to me to have this expertise to

42:13

you? And cuz if

42:15

, if you think like it's only like 50 years of

42:17

experience in the field, then it's like one woman and

42:19

she's 80. Right, right. Like that's

42:21

the only expert in this. Right. So, so

42:23

one of the things is like, what are we thinking about? Who makes

42:26

an expert and then like, and who told

42:28

us that's what expertise means. Right.

42:31

And how is that guarded? So that's

42:33

what I mean, that's like a highly academic exercise

42:35

<laugh> as an extremely nerdy exercise.

42:38

And the way I think about when

42:40

I with imposter syndrome is

42:42

like, I don't know how to like train myself to not

42:44

feel a certain way, but what I can

42:47

do is say like what,

42:49

like white man is benefiting from me thinking

42:51

this, like what, who

42:53

is benefiting when I think about this

42:55

and it's not like, it's not people

42:57

like, you know , who <laugh> , who are

43:00

also thinking that they're imposters.

43:01

Right. Right.

43:02

And like, I think

43:05

that that's the question, like who benefits from, from

43:07

me being like, oh, well not next , blah , blah

43:09

, blah , blah . Right? Or like, oh this is,

43:11

you know, if not, I, there was , you

43:13

know, it's true about everyone else, but oh,

43:15

but not me though. Not me though. Right? Yeah . Right. And

43:17

, and like, I'm like, oh yeah. Who that's, that's been sold

43:20

to us. And that's been sold to us like

43:23

in , particularly in professional spaces , by men

43:25

and now like, and I think there are women that will do that

43:28

now too. And which is just really

43:30

disappointing. My white women get your

43:32

together. But like those types of rarefied species

43:34

, like the question is like, who benefits if

43:36

you say that? Whether or not is true. Cause I'm like , I

43:39

don't know . Am I an imposter ? I have no idea. What does

43:41

it mean to be an imposter ? Like sure. But whether

43:43

or not like, what does it mean that that's what

43:45

the definition meets and like who got to

43:47

define that? So yeah. I don't know how to

43:49

like, not have that thought except

43:51

for to think like, this is just not useful.

43:53

No

43:54

Is not useful.

43:55

And, and I'm trying to not let it hold

43:57

me back. Right. So like when

43:59

it comes to like thinking of like looking

44:01

at a job that I might apply for or

44:04

something and being like, I'm not qualified for

44:06

that. What do you mean? Like, don't just sell

44:08

yourself short mm-hmm <affirmative> like, if

44:11

you're like utterly unqualified, like that's

44:13

one thing. But like if it's like studies

44:17

about

44:17

That right . Margin , there's loads of studies

44:19

about who applies for what? Depending

44:22

on their identity, both their gender and

44:24

their race identity. And like for,

44:26

you know, this is gonna in a shocking turn of events.

44:29

<laugh> like , women will not

44:31

apply unless they meet like 95%

44:33

of things listed on the thing. Whereas men will apply if

44:35

they meet 50 and then it also splits

44:38

among racial lines too. Right. So like, yeah.

44:40

Who who's benefiting when we're like, I shouldn't apply

44:42

for that . I only meet like 78% of the things

44:44

. There's the one thing I don't meet. Right?

44:47

Yeah. You, this is everyone

44:49

listening. You are good for that job. Go do

44:51

it.

44:51

Just do it. And like , do what's

44:53

the worst that happens.

44:56

They don't interview you. Right. Or you

44:58

do it and you fail like, okay ,

45:01

Next

45:01

I failed at loads of things , you

45:05

gotta pay your rent , but that's like, you know

45:07

, figure that part out. Yeah. No, no.

45:09

That's, <laugh> , that's true. I,

45:11

you know, one of these things is like, it doesn't

45:13

go away. Right. I think that like, and

45:16

you read, I don't tend to read sort of memoirs.

45:19

I find it as sort of a genre, but you

45:21

know, you read memoirs of people that you think, oh,

45:23

this person for sure has its

45:26

together . Not be an imposter. This , this person.

45:28

That's what I mean. When I , when I say someone's

45:30

not an imposter, this person, you read the book and they're

45:33

just like, I'm a total imposter. You're like, oh, okay.

45:35

So that's just made

45:36

Up . This is definitely a, you fake it

45:38

until you make it. Like you just keep telling yeah

45:41

. You just like fine. Keep telling yourself

45:43

you're faking it and keep doing it.

45:46

Faking it is the making it. Yeah. That's

45:48

what there is every once in a while, I'll

45:50

think, okay , I need the person who actually does this.

45:52

And then you look around and that person does not exist. You're

45:54

like, oh, I am that person. Okay . Well I

45:57

wish I felt a little more like an adult. I mean

45:59

like I'm in my mid forties and I'm still, like, I

46:01

just thought being an adult would feel a

46:03

lot more adulty <laugh>

46:05

I thought I was supposed to know what I was doing now.

46:08

I thought , yeah. And now I think back to my

46:10

parents and their , you know, at their

46:12

age and I'm like, oh my God, they had no idea

46:16

because when you're a kid, you think, oh , they like

46:18

parents. Really? They know all you disagree

46:20

with them . Obviously, you , you like, think they're

46:22

wrong, but they've got it figured out. Yeah . They just

46:24

have the wrong answer to whatever you wanna be doing.

46:27

And now I'm like, oh no, they had no idea

46:29

. Like , and my mom was like, yeah , we have no idea what we're

46:31

doing. Why did you think that? I was like, I thought adults.

46:33

That's why you were ,

46:35

That's why you're an adult. <laugh>

46:38

Like , there was one day where all of a sudden I

46:40

was going to become this magical person and

46:43

Adult . Yeah . Today you are a woman. Yeah

46:45

. My , and

46:46

She'll know all the things . Oh .

46:48

And I'll know other things. Yeah, no, I , um

46:50

, it is uh , good news, everybody

46:53

out there. No one really know there is no mold.

46:55

You can do it. You'll be great. You

46:59

, this podcast has been such a joy. I

47:02

mean, it's so such a joy for the movement, such a joy for

47:04

me. And so many listeners. What

47:06

are things that you listen to? Not

47:09

your own. I , yeah, I would never , gosh

47:11

, I can't listen to my own voice. Partly cause

47:13

It's like ,

47:13

I can hear my mother. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

47:16

just like, oh my God, my mother's coming right outta my mouth

47:18

whom I love, but did not want to sound

47:20

like

47:21

Yes.

47:22

So, so when , when , other than this podcast

47:24

or the other good podcasts.

47:26

Yeah , yeah . I listen to so many podcasts. So

47:28

I'll just like do a couple that

47:30

I love, I really love maintenance

47:32

phase with Michael Hobbs and Avory Gordon.

47:35

It's like, I

47:37

would say like , almost like the anti wellness podcast,

47:40

it's like debunking, like BMI

47:43

is total. And this is why here's

47:45

all this data for why it's wrong.

47:48

And like goes after like diets. There's

47:50

like an amazing Dr . Oz episode.

47:52

Like, oh my God, what a quack ?

47:54

Uh , yeah. So like amazing. I love that

47:56

podcast. I also love you're

47:59

wrong about , which is like the same,

48:01

but like about that different, right? Like it's

48:03

more pop culture moments . I would say

48:06

the one I just listened to today was about the

48:08

McDonald's hot coffee case.

48:11

And like, why, like what people know about

48:13

it is like,

48:15

It's like totally wrong is

48:16

Totally wrong. And like this woman was

48:18

like seriously, seriously

48:21

injured. And it became like this

48:23

joke of like, well, duh , of course coffee's

48:25

hot, but it was like

48:27

No

48:27

Way beyond . It was like almost boiling

48:30

My mom. Tell me all about this. Yeah . So I

48:32

don't listen to that podcast, but my mom does, which is the same as

48:34

listening to that podcast. Right .

48:35

<laugh> style of that. Okay . I'm

48:38

like gonna have another recommendation. So

48:40

cancel me daddy with Caitlin burns

48:42

and Oliver, Ash Klein burned and our Ash Kline , they

48:45

take on cancel culture and like, why it's

48:47

Such

48:48

A joke and like, what are y'all

48:50

talking about anyway, this week's episode?

48:53

Cause no one's been canceled and they all , so

48:55

They talk about the , the cancel Grif economy, which

48:57

is amazing. But this week's

49:00

episode reached a special place for

49:02

me. It had funny enough,

49:04

the host of like both of these other podcasts.

49:07

I just talked about Michael Hobbs on it, talking

49:09

about the trial,

49:12

which I have been avoiding, like the plague . Oh

49:15

, this

49:15

Has been crazy . I

49:17

mean, the amount that this society hates women is

49:20

out .

49:20

So he really takes on

49:21

Like , it is outta this world.

49:23

Y'all this is like the most clear cut case of

49:25

abuse, like the most well documented.

49:28

And like, if you read the like British

49:30

court case , which he did, like,

49:33

he's like, anyway, it

49:35

was just like really great. I, for

49:37

like health reason , like just mental health

49:39

reasons have like checked out. I can't follow it,

49:42

but I have been shocked by some of the things I've

49:44

seen, people that I know, like

49:47

post on social. And I'm just like, really

49:49

all ,

49:50

Like, it's like an international

49:52

gas lighting.

49:53

It leads into like a couple things of like, the people

49:55

don't really understand intimate partner violence and

49:57

like all the ways it expresses itself. And

49:59

like , mm-hmm , <affirmative> the whole range of it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and

50:02

misogyny. Like , it's just like this like crash

50:04

course in all of it at the same time

50:06

. So I really love that.

50:10

And then ,

50:10

Yeah, let me pause for two reasons

50:13

. One so that

50:15

if your listeners are wondering, like, do I

50:17

understand what intimate partner violence is? Do

50:19

I like, am I in a situation that I maybe

50:21

didn't think was intimate partner violence?

50:24

Because it didn't fit some like really clear

50:26

cut definition I had in my mind. I

50:29

just wanna remind people that they can call

50:31

the national DV hotline anytime at

50:34

1

50:37

807 9 9 7 2 3 3 , to talk with someone confidentially, whether

50:39

or not you think right in this moment. Oh, it's not

50:41

that bad . Not that bad . So just , yeah

50:45

, it's not , it's not this thing, which

50:47

is clearly DV . So it's not . Thank you .

50:48

I appreciate

50:49

That from remind people that like it is out there.

50:51

Talk ,

50:52

Talk ,

50:52

There's

50:53

Chat on their website,

50:55

There's chat super easy and

50:57

like get some more information. And also, so that

50:59

you have more information about what you might be seeing and , and other

51:01

people and , and how you can support Jenny

51:03

. These are all extremely educational

51:06

podcasts. And I am, I've got to say,

51:08

Okay , so then the next one I was gonna say was

51:10

, um, how did this get made? I

51:13

love that podcast. Yes . Uh

51:16

, yes, no, that makes me super

51:19

happy. And then you must remember

51:21

this by Korean Longworth. I

51:24

grew up watching like a lot of old Hollywood

51:26

movies. Cause that is my mother's jam. Like

51:28

if there is a carry grant movie, mm-hmm <affirmative> , I'm sure

51:30

I had seen it. That it is like her favorite. I

51:33

was joking when I came back from being in Wisconsin

51:36

at Christmas time that I forgot that movies came

51:38

in color . So

51:41

, uh , I really love the

51:43

, you must remember this podcast, which looks at

51:45

old Hollywood. I mean, although right now

51:47

she is looking at sex in

51:49

the eighties. So it's sex on

51:52

screen in the eighties also

51:54

very on brand . Yes .

51:56

How did you get made is a podcast where

51:59

they look at movies that are like so absurd

52:02

and then they just talk about them being like,

52:04

how did this happen? And it's amazing. It is

52:06

so

52:06

Hilarious. It's so funny .

52:08

Our like our pop culture is yeah . <laugh>

52:10

I love that podcast . They're

52:13

all so funny . I

52:15

guess I'll stop there. Yeah .

52:17

It's important . It's important to

52:19

have outlets. I mean, it's important to learn.

52:21

It's always important to learn. Everybody, go keep

52:24

learning and it's important

52:26

to have good outlets where you can

52:28

actually just laugh your head off at like a

52:30

Really bad. And some people are like so bad. I'm

52:32

like, well now do I need to see this? Because

52:34

like, it sounds like horribly

52:37

terrible for

52:37

Sure . And we should , like, we should do a viewing party actually

52:40

together when we're feeling like when the caseload

52:42

is down or we'll do it outside, like

52:45

the, in these COVID dimes and then

52:47

like , do it , listen to the thing and then do a screen

52:49

That be fun with dinosaurs

52:51

that I've just been like , what is

52:53

,

52:56

And you're there Bonker and you think to yourself, this can't possibly get made. And then

52:58

you remember every David Hasselhoff

53:00

movie mm-hmm <affirmative> so yeah, highly recommend.

53:02

I am much less Aite in my

53:05

podcasting. I , I don't listen to

53:07

a ton of podcasts. I listen to yours and I listen to

53:09

dear Hank and John , which is, oh yeah , yeah . John

53:12

Hank green. I , yeah. Which

53:14

is also funny and very sweet. It's like, it's

53:16

about as sincere as I get ever

53:20

in terms of like national sincerity. But I

53:22

love gays at the national parks, G

53:24

a C at the national parks, which

53:26

is a podcast, which I always thought was

53:29

G a Y S the national parks, cuz that is

53:31

also its brand. But if , if anyone even

53:33

has a passing love of national parks

53:35

, this is a great podcast. And then I

53:37

listen to like a star Trek

53:39

Podcast .

53:42

Yeah's it's now , which makes me really sad

53:44

cuz I know there's an end. I got it really late.

53:46

Like it's it's older. But like, yeah.

53:48

I , I love it. Like , so this is again, I

53:51

would come home when I watch cartoons and I'm like, no, no, you

53:53

Need to unplug fun . I

53:55

haven't started it yet. But I've

53:58

been like, I was thinking I wanted to do a rewatch

54:00

of true blood, which I never

54:02

finished, but I was like, it

54:05

Got

54:05

Weird. And so I didn't do it. And

54:08

so, but there's

54:10

now a true blood podcast with

54:13

the woman who played Pam and the woman

54:15

who played Jessica. And I was like,

54:17

oh my God, this sounds like something I

54:19

would love to like watch an episode,

54:22

listen to the podcast.

54:24

That's I watched so true blood at

54:26

the beginning and it's got so intense.

54:29

I was like,

54:29

Yeah , it got a little wild . And I was like, and

54:32

I think I'm gonna check out now.

54:35

Yeah. Like again, I'm not people

54:37

if people like it a great, but

54:40

I was like, holy moly , this is getting too

54:42

crazy. I think part of that's age , right . I'm

54:44

just aging out of anything sharp edge these days. But

54:47

I li the other thing I love if you've never listened

54:49

to pump

54:53

that right . In my brain, especially if I'm tra well , you

54:55

know, like COVID , haven't done a load, but like I

54:57

used to listen that all the time on planes. Cause

55:01

you , first of all , you put your , how earphones in you're like, please

55:03

don't talk to me. This is the universal sign who don't talk to me.

55:05

Yes. And then like his, he just like, the

55:07

stories are so good that he chooses. And of

55:09

course his voice is just so wonderful. He's such a good narrator.

55:12

So another good podcast to recommend to vote

55:14

.

55:14

Yeah. I also listen to this one, go

55:16

Go of these .

55:17

Like I love like having podcasts, like

55:19

playing one . So I I've used that

55:21

for that mm-hmm <affirmative> and then there's one called sleep

55:23

with me. That is like nice

55:26

. Basically a guy gets on Mike and he'll

55:28

like, recap, he's done like star

55:30

Trek episodes. Or he did like

55:32

some Dr . Who episodes and he is just like talk

55:35

and wanders and rambles. He's just like ,

55:37

He's got that sort of sweet little .

55:39

So that is the delightful for like trying to fall asleep

55:42

podcast.

55:44

I mean, these are good wrecks for everyone. Movement

55:47

. Stay hydrated, stay, stay

55:49

joyful, take some time off Jenny.

55:51

It has been such a joy to be

55:54

able to talk with you. One

55:56

of the major, obviously just

55:58

for everyone's life is the inability to sort of get

56:01

together in person. And so

56:03

I'm missing you, even though we actually

56:05

worked very close. I'm building for like

56:07

two blocks away. But, but

56:09

it's so good to talk to you and I'm just so excited

56:11

to be on your podcast and be able to like

56:13

take the re so that you can actually

56:16

tell us more instead of being the great

56:18

interviewer, the great interviewee.

56:19

Well , Tara , thank you so much for doing this. I

56:21

had so much fun talking to you . I

56:23

mean, as we always do and I cannot wait

56:26

to have you back on soon, cuz y'all just released

56:28

a new report that I will have you come and

56:30

talk all about cuz it is super important.

56:34

Oh yeah. So that is yeah. We'll everybody

56:36

grab a glass of water, everyone and some snacks

56:39

and then, and have listen to a good light

56:41

podcast because then we'll talk about,

56:43

you know, the sort of serious situation facing indigenous

56:45

women here in the us . But, but there's always something

56:47

people can do. Right. And that's that's the other thing is

56:50

like you learn and then you think, whoa , that's the most screwed up

56:52

thing I've ever heard in my life. Exactly . And then you take action and

56:54

you do the thing . So speaking of the most screwed up

56:57

thing we've ever heard in our lives, everybody. Yeah

56:59

. Stay safe, stay safe . Thank you . Drink

57:01

more water. Brace yourself. We're

57:04

all in it in the long haul. This is our life's work.

57:06

We will get through this. We'll get

57:07

Through this. Yeah. Thanks so much,

57:09

Jenny . Thank you everyone. Who's listening. Make

57:11

sure you subscribe to this podcast that

57:13

you shared on social media. Um

57:15

, and that you come back here . My we'll

57:17

see you then.

57:19

Okay . Y'all I hope you enjoyed my conversation

57:21

with Tara. I am so, so

57:23

grateful for her to do this. I

57:26

really, really appreciate it. She is just

57:28

the absolute best. So thank you. Thank

57:31

you. Thank you . Thank you . Thank you Tara. With

57:33

that. If you have anything

57:35

you would like us to cover or if you have any questions,

57:37

you can always shoot me an [email protected]

57:42

or you can find us on social media at

57:44

repro fi back on Facebook and Twitter or

57:46

repo's FB on Instagram. Otherwise

57:49

I will see y'all in two weeks for

57:53

more information, including show notes. From

57:55

this episode and previous episodes,

57:57

please visit us at our website at repro,

58:00

fight back.com . You

58:02

can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at

58:04

repro fight back and on Instagram

58:07

at repro FB . If

58:09

you like our show, please help others find it

58:11

by sharing it with your friends and please rate and

58:13

review us on apple podcast. Thanks

58:16

for listening.