0:04

Welcome to Re Pro's, fight Back a

0:07

podcast where we explore all things reproductive

0:09

health, rights and justice. I'm

0:12

your host Jenny Wetter and I'll

0:14

be helping you stay informed around issues like

0:16

birth control, abortion, sex education,

0:18

and LGBTQ issues

0:21

and much, much more giving

0:23

you the tools you need to take action

0:25

and fight back. Okay, let's dive

0:27

in. Hi

0:31

re Rose . How's everybody doing? I'm

0:33

your host Jenny . We and my pronouns

0:35

are she her. So

0:38

I am recording this on the

0:40

Monday before Thanksgiving, so

0:42

I hope everybody had a wonderful

0:45

Thanksgiving. I'm really looking forward

0:47

to mine. I am off starting

0:49

Wednesday and I've got a whole five

0:52

interrupted days off and

0:54

I'm very, very excited. I don't really have much

0:56

planned, which I'm also very, very excited

0:59

for. I'm going to

1:01

uh , friends I think for Thanksgiving, so that

1:03

is exciting. So it should

1:05

be a really lowkey holiday. I'm really looking

1:08

forward to that. Sometimes, you

1:10

know, traveling home for the holidays is

1:12

really stressful, especially Thanksgiving.

1:14

Like it's such a tight turnaround

1:17

that it just ends up being really exhausting.

1:20

So I'm excited to not be

1:22

doing that even as I will absolutely

1:25

miss being there with my family. Yeah,

1:28

that's always the hard part. I

1:30

especially will miss my mom cooks

1:32

a pretty mean Thanksgiving dinner. It's

1:35

one of my favorites. Like she just makes

1:37

so much good food. The Turkey, her

1:40

turkey's really good and the stuffing and

1:42

so I really miss out on that. But

1:45

I usually can con her into making

1:47

a Thanksgiving feast while I'm home over the

1:49

Christmas break. So hopefully we

1:52

can do that again this year cuz I , I

1:54

do really miss out on not being in Wisconsin

1:56

to have that. But the other

1:58

thing I really miss by not being able to go home

2:02

is as on the Saturday

2:04

after Thanksgiving, my mom's side of

2:06

the family, I think I've mentioned that I have a very

2:08

large family on that side and

2:11

my aunts and my cousins and

2:13

now my Cousins's kids, like it's

2:15

getting very large get together and

2:17

we make Christmas cookies like a

2:19

day full of baking and so

2:22

many hundreds of cookies made and

2:24

it's so much fun, lots

2:26

of delightful food and fun

2:28

company. Lots of laughs and

2:31

mishaps and it's just a

2:33

really fun day. I always miss that when

2:35

I can't go home, but I

2:37

enjoy the spoils. My mom will usually put

2:40

together a box for me and

2:42

ship it out, so maybe she'll

2:44

do that again this year. I hope so.

2:47

Yeah, I just, this

2:49

Thanksgiving I'm just feeling really grateful for

2:52

wonderful friends and family even

2:54

if I don't get to see my family this year. Yeah,

2:58

I'm just, just really thankful for my

3:00

family and sad I can't see

3:02

them , but that's okay . I'll

3:05

be home for a while over the Christmas break,

3:07

so it'll be nice to see everybody then.

3:10

And I'm just, I'm really thankful for you all

3:12

. Like this little podcast

3:14

is almost five years old and I'm just

3:16

so grateful for every one of you who

3:18

have been there from day one or

3:21

from today. It's just,

3:24

yeah, it's wonderful to have

3:26

such a wonderful audience that

3:29

is invested in these issues and

3:31

cares about these issues enough

3:33

to keep coming back and listening to the

3:35

amazing guests I have on to

3:37

come and talk about all of the

3:40

important things in sexual and reproductive health

3:42

rights and justice. So, and

3:44

I'm very thankful for my luck

3:46

in having amazing guests and

3:49

I'm really thankful for this

3:52

week's episode, y'all, this

3:54

is like my favorite series we do

3:56

every year, which is why we

3:58

keep doing it every year. And it

4:01

is the one where I have amazing people come

4:03

on to tell their sexual reproductive

4:05

health rights and justice origin story.

4:08

This year I had such

4:10

amazing bounty of

4:12

stories that we're actually splitting it into

4:14

two episodes, so there'll be a special bonus episode

4:17

next week with I think

4:19

three more stories in it. Today

4:22

we are going to start with two

4:24

amazing stories from two amazing

4:27

advocates. First we have Reverend

4:30

Katie Zay with the Religious Coalition for

4:32

Reproductive Choice, and then we

4:34

have Pamela Merrit with Medical Students

4:36

for Choice. So I hope you

4:38

enjoy both of their stories. I

4:41

had a wonderful time hearing

4:43

them . Okay , so with that, let's

4:45

turn to Reverend Katie . A

4:48

When I decided to go to seminary

4:51

the year after graduating from college, I

4:53

think it was in part to avoid entering

4:56

the professional sphere. And

4:59

it was also because I did have a sense

5:01

deep down that I was

5:03

called to do something in the

5:05

world. I just didn't know what

5:07

that was. I thought maybe I

5:09

was supposed to be a minister of a church

5:12

or maybe go on to do doctoral

5:14

work. I honestly didn't

5:17

know. But about the last place

5:19

I ever expected to discover

5:21

my calling was within the walls

5:23

of the abortion clinic just down the street

5:26

from my campus. This

5:29

is a story that I've told on

5:31

this podcast before and

5:33

still it kind of amazes me how

5:35

all of this came together. When

5:38

I was a student, I took a couple of classes actually

5:40

provided by the organization. I now

5:43

run the Religious Coalition for Reproductive or

5:46

R crc , they to

5:48

campus and taught how do you

5:51

walk alongside someone making a decision

5:54

about a pregnancy and how do

5:56

you do that with the spiritual

5:58

support that people often need as they're

6:00

asking big, big questions. I

6:03

absolutely loved the training and I wanted to

6:06

use it and I didn't know how.

6:09

And so I ended up going

6:11

on a tour of a local clinic

6:14

that offered abortion care and

6:17

on my way there I

6:19

encountered the protestors for the first time

6:21

in a very different kinda way in

6:23

which I was mistaken for an

6:26

abortion patient. And that impacted

6:28

me in a lot of ways, not the least of

6:30

which pushed me to explore

6:33

my own internalized abortion stigma.

6:37

In addition to that though, when I went inside

6:40

and I got to see for myself the

6:42

kind of loving and compassionate care provided

6:44

there by the staff and the doctors and

6:47

the nurses, I was just so

6:49

blown away by the amount of love

6:52

that I saw and I felt compelled

6:54

to come back as a volunteer. I

6:57

started first in the recovery room, helping

7:00

the nurses pass out Saines

7:02

and ginger ale , and

7:05

then one day the staff was down a

7:07

person and they really needed someone

7:09

in the procedure room to hold the hands

7:11

of patients during their procedures. They

7:14

asked if I would be willing to step in. I

7:17

was honestly pretty terrified. I had only

7:19

seen one procedure and I'd gotten a little

7:21

faint. There's a reason

7:23

that I didn't go to medical school, but

7:25

it was just one of those moments when I couldn't let

7:28

my trepidation stand in the way of

7:31

providing care to people who needed it

7:33

and there was nobody else

7:35

who could. So I

7:37

agreed and patient

7:40

after patient would come in and I

7:42

would stand there and offer them my hand.

7:45

It felt a little awkward and it

7:47

also felt extremely sacred to me

7:50

to be able to hold that presence and

7:52

just be there with

7:55

patience during this very vulnerable moment.

7:57

And the fact that they were

7:59

letting me in and

8:02

letting me hold space for them was incredibly

8:04

sacred to me. And I really

8:06

felt like that was my, my

8:09

calling was somehow

8:11

to find a way to combine the

8:13

work that I was doing in seminary around theology

8:16

and ethics and

8:19

sacred texts and

8:22

combine that with serving

8:24

people going through

8:27

reproductive decisions and who are

8:29

on reproductive journeys where they might want some

8:31

spiritual accompaniment. And I also knew

8:34

that I had to roll a plate in answering the

8:36

kinds of rhetoric that so many people

8:39

here from Christians

8:41

like me who make

8:43

it part of their lives to regularly

8:46

stand outside of clinics and and offer

8:49

hate and harassment and

8:51

violence. I knew that I

8:53

wanted to do something different

8:55

from that and that really

8:57

was the origin of of my work.

8:59

And now as the CEO of

9:01

our crc, when

9:04

there are really tough days and there have been a lot

9:06

of those lately, I really do return

9:08

back to those early days

9:10

when I was in the clinic and I remember the

9:13

people I met there, the staff,

9:15

the doctors, and also the patients and

9:17

how much love and support they showed

9:19

me too. It wasn't

9:22

just about me offering something, it was also

9:24

about me learning and receiving so much

9:26

in that space. It's really

9:28

an honor to do this work. I definitely

9:31

don't consider myself a hero, but

9:34

I definitely consider

9:36

myself someone who feels very strongly called

9:38

to do this work in

9:41

a community of many amazing people

9:43

who do this work day in and day out . It's

9:46

my honor to be included in

9:48

this episode and thank you for

9:50

the work of Re's Fight Back .

9:54

Hi Pamela, thanks for being here.

9:57

Hello . Thank you so much for having me.

10:00

Okay , before we get into your story, do you wanna

10:02

introduce yourself real quick and include your

10:04

pronouns?

10:05

Absolutely. So my name is Pamela

10:08

Merrit . My pronouns are she, her and

10:10

y'all . I am a proud

10:12

Midwesterner and the

10:15

executive director of medical students

10:17

for Choice.

10:19

All right . Would you like to tell your

10:21

story of how you got involved in

10:23

the repro movement?

10:25

Sure. You know, it's a

10:28

long road, but I'll

10:30

walk y'all through . It

10:31

Mean the same

10:32

<laugh> . So I need

10:34

to honor the fact that I grew

10:36

up with two very

10:39

progressive pro-choice parents and

10:42

you know, they weren't perfect, but

10:45

they were very clear

10:48

on , you know, not just what they valued

10:50

as far as bodily autonomy, but why ? And

10:53

my first introduction to sex

10:56

ed was actually through Planned Parenthood

10:58

coloring books,

11:00

<laugh> ,

11:00

They're awesome. My mother,

11:03

for whatever reason, I think it's just

11:06

1950s upbringing , but she struggled

11:08

to talk about reproductive health and

11:11

way more than she struggled to talk about feminism

11:14

in general . And so the coloring

11:16

books were a great way for us to learn

11:19

medically accurate terms and

11:21

have a discussion point with her.

11:24

The one thing when we were talking about

11:27

contraception was that

11:29

she was explaining the different method

11:32

of preventing pregnancy and I

11:34

got an insight into her life , which

11:37

was that , you know, she didn't

11:39

have me until she was 30 , but

11:42

my brother was born and

11:44

then 16 months later my sister

11:46

was born then 18 months I was

11:49

not by design , but basically by

11:51

inadequate healthcare that

11:54

, you know, my mother went

11:57

to Catholic hospitals for all

11:59

of us and ended up being

12:02

told that she could not use birth that

12:05

wasn't candidate , gave her

12:07

all kinds of misinformation. And

12:10

when she had my sister,

12:13

like she was in grad school, she

12:16

had already had a baby in diapers and now

12:18

that I'm an adult , like my heart just

12:20

goes out to her <laugh>

12:22

. She then , you know , was told

12:25

that they would not do a , it

12:28

went against , you know , religious

12:30

, so she , you know,

12:32

the best time to have that done is when

12:34

you already in the hospital having given birth.

12:36

So her doctor

12:39

told her that she could not get pregnant while

12:41

breastfeeding and to

12:44

use the rhythm method . So I

12:46

, anytime somebody talks about natural

12:49

pregnancy prevention and the method

12:51

, I'm like , oh, I'm really familiar with

12:53

it even though I've never used it cause of a rhythm , baby,

12:56

completely the

12:59

result of the rhythm method try and

13:01

, and somebody trying to use it with

13:04

two babies , one new baby breastfeeding,

13:06

all of us , all of us in diapers. I just

13:08

, I cannot imagine how she did it . But

13:11

it was a really interesting window

13:14

into the challenges that

13:17

people were facing in or

13:21

when got pregnant . And also just

13:24

how much a doctor had

13:27

on somebody's life . You know , I was born

13:33

February 22nd, 1973 , so a month after

13:35

the row decision. And

13:38

in what my mother was told through

13:41

three pregnancies was directly

13:44

connected to the

13:46

way that doctors treated pregnant people

13:49

and the weight and

13:52

value that they put on their

13:54

life considerations because , you

13:57

know, I'm happy to be here, but it

13:59

certainly wasn't the best decision

14:01

for my family. It was an

14:03

incredible burden and you

14:06

definitely delayed my mom's ability

14:08

to complete her degree. And she

14:10

was very open about that. So growing up

14:12

I had a very strong understanding

14:16

of <laugh> <laugh> , you know, the fact that, you

14:18

know , pregnancy wasn't all flowers and , and

14:21

glorious Disney animals playing . And

14:24

then the other thing that I grew up

14:26

with was a very firm understanding

14:30

that everything doesn't always work out

14:32

right. And by that I mean

14:34

that many of my friends

14:37

then growing up, and even now when

14:39

people talk about pregnancy, they think

14:42

of the best case scenario . And

14:44

so I grew up the third

14:47

child who , uh, was born

14:50

into a family where we knew my

14:52

older brother, he was the oldest , that

14:54

something was different about

14:56

him. And then, you know, because

14:59

of the time in which he was born in

15:01

the early seventies , it took a while

15:03

to get the diagnosis of autism for

15:06

, but throughout my

15:08

childhood I knew that

15:11

you can't just plan

15:13

for the best case scenario that

15:16

you have to think , am I gonna be able

15:19

to support and provide

15:21

for this child ? And for

15:23

a lot of people in 1970

15:25

, the answer to that question

15:28

was no . And they put infants

15:31

into institutions, and

15:33

I was raised by parents

15:35

who made us promise

15:38

when I was like 10 that

15:40

I would never do that, and that they did

15:42

not think that that was , you know, an appropriate

15:45

place for my brother . And that a

15:47

lot of what we did as a family was

15:50

to make sure that he wasn't

15:53

vulnerable to being placed in an

15:55

institution. And that was a lot of work

15:57

back in 1980s , late

16:00

seventies and eighties . And I applaud my

16:02

parents their long since pass

16:04

, but I do applaud just not

16:07

just what they did, but their transparency

16:10

and the way they framed it. Not that my brother

16:12

was a burden, but that the

16:14

social safety net that should

16:16

be supporting all people does

16:18

not support so many people, including

16:21

people with developmental disabilities.

16:24

But to talk to your average

16:26

person on the street , they don't even , don't

16:29

even consider that . And

16:31

, and how it

16:33

affects everything in

16:35

your life. Not just whether you can

16:37

get, you know, the right education

16:40

for this child, but

16:42

also you know, how

16:44

much you can work where you can work, you

16:46

know, everything. And

16:49

that's true of children, but

16:51

particularly true , uh,

16:53

parenting a child with disability

16:56

in the early eighties . So

16:59

all of that kinda turned up

17:01

in my life coupled with growing

17:04

up in the eighties , which was , its a

17:09

lot . So

17:13

I, I'm a pure Gen Xer

17:15

. I grew up, you know, first

17:17

hearing about herpes through

17:20

Saturday Night Live skits , and

17:22

then, you know, learning about

17:24

this horrible cancer

17:26

that was plaguing the gay

17:28

community that then became,

17:31

you know , known as aids and

17:33

, and that

17:36

was the constant companion

17:39

to my analysis of sex and

17:43

empowerment . And also , you

17:45

know, I think being a black youth

17:48

at the time , I really felt

17:51

really horrified at how

17:53

dismissed people were being. The

17:56

lack of compassion in the lack

17:58

of , like , regardless of people's

18:02

views , what it felt like and

18:04

looked like to have people in your

18:06

world who were suffering

18:09

from AIDS was absolutely

18:12

brutal in the eighties . And

18:14

you know, my mom had many

18:17

friends who didn't make it

18:19

and was quite about the reality that

18:22

people were not being prioritized because

18:25

of who they were , not of what disease

18:27

they had . So all of that, like

18:30

the stark reality of that

18:32

I was brought up in, was a

18:34

big part of how I

18:37

approached like myself in the movement

18:40

when I was in college . I was very

18:43

committed to racial justice . I

18:45

, I went to school in Massachusetts and

18:47

I just left right over high school, but

18:49

mostly because it's a blur. Like

18:52

I, by the time <laugh>, by

18:54

the time I gotta high school , I , my

18:57

entire life was a plan to get outta Missouri.

19:00

And you know, I had a really

19:02

horrible like school experience,

19:04

even though people I meet now

19:07

who I went to school with did not see that

19:09

at all. I think I was a good actor, but

19:11

there was a lot of overt racism, a

19:14

lot of bullying. It was Ronald

19:16

Reagan's eighties in a , in a

19:18

Midwest suburb . So it was very materialistic,

19:22

very stereotype driven . And

19:25

you know, just as , as a

19:27

lot of folks who were Gen X , like

19:29

we came out this with parents

19:32

who were trying to process the 1960s

19:35

and <laugh> we're trying to process the

19:38

collateral damage of the sixties , which

19:40

was , you know , the world we lived in . So I

19:43

fled Missouri just as soon as I could

19:45

. I actually took early

19:48

hour credits in high school in summer

19:50

school so that I could graduate a year early.

19:53

And I went to this for the first

19:55

year of college's, quirky school called Simon's

19:58

Rock College . Uh , I think it's called Simon's

20:00

Rock College of Bard now , but it is in

20:03

great Barrington , Massachusetts . It's early

20:06

college for people who want to skip

20:09

their senior or junior year

20:11

of high school and just start 300

20:14

students. Super, super liberal.

20:16

I think, you know, I was considered

20:19

conservative on that campus , <laugh>

20:21

, <laugh> just kinda

20:23

of hard <laugh> looking back . And

20:25

so in 1990 I really made

20:28

the connection at that school between

20:32

the academic theory , feminism

20:35

and reproductive rights and the reality

20:38

of policy. But it

20:40

did it in a state where there was a

20:42

lot of support for

20:44

reproductive rights. And so even

20:47

when I transferred after my first year

20:49

to Brande , I was still going school in

20:52

an environment where was of entitlement

20:55

that peopled to birth , to

20:59

abortion in

21:05

reverence for the violence that

21:07

was perpetrated against abortion providers

21:11

and clinics . There was a , you know , horrible

21:14

terrorist incident in Boston , I believe

21:16

in the eighties . And so there was still this

21:19

tension about defending clinics and

21:22

also calling out , you know , what

21:24

in that city was a very Catholic

21:27

heavy anti-abortion presence. You

21:29

know, to the extent that I got active, I

21:32

think that was the lens

21:34

that I was looking through that , you know, people

21:37

who are trying to provide healthcare should

21:39

not have to a gauntlet and , you

21:41

know , have to deal with bomb threats

21:44

every other day , which was pretty

21:47

much so the norm through the eighties and

21:50

into the nineties. And so I

21:53

done with school, I was broke <laugh>

21:55

, I dove into

21:58

paying for food and working

22:00

in advertising. I moved to Texas and kind

22:02

of put activism on the back burner.

22:05

I did , you know, I was the

22:07

person who would take a sick

22:09

day off of work to help a friend go get

22:12

an abortion and support them . But

22:14

I definitely was not the person

22:17

who was like , I'm gonna be a clinic escort . I

22:20

just , I don't , I don't think it really

22:22

hit that I had a personal mission

22:25

yet . And so this

22:28

was the first step I

22:30

took into movement work was actually

22:33

by getting sick. I

22:35

got diagnosed with fibroids

22:38

and endometriosis when I was

22:41

27 and I spent one

22:44

year on horrible hormones

22:47

and then another year trying

22:50

to find a gynecologist who would give

22:52

me options that weren't based on

22:54

whether I wanted to have kids . So

22:57

this was in Dallas , Texas . It

23:00

was a fun exercise that I will share

23:02

with anybody. Not only could I not

23:05

get my very good health insurance to

23:07

cover alternative treatments for

23:09

fibroids and endometriosis because

23:12

they felt that they were fertility treatments, but

23:15

I also could not find a

23:17

high risk ob who

23:20

would take me on and

23:22

give me the option of hysterectomy

23:26

or , you know, myectomy to remove

23:29

the fibroids. I wanted to

23:31

have the full spectrum of options and

23:33

I didn't somebody second

23:36

guessing the , that I knew I didn't have kids

23:38

. So I got . And

23:42

part of that , probably I was month

23:44

, but <laugh> when

23:47

you're , when you're having a period

23:50

for 15 freaking straight and

23:52

you're in , the thing you hear

23:55

is somebody of patting your hand and

23:58

saying , oh , you , you change mind . And

24:01

just , yeah , I was livid

24:03

and I stayed mad. Even

24:05

when we got into a good , like I

24:08

found a really good treatment plan , I

24:10

had a really good doctor , I was still

24:13

off that like on top

24:15

of the anxiety and

24:17

the agony of trying to find out

24:20

what the hell was happening to my body , I

24:23

was being treated like I

24:25

was like an emotional wreck who wasn

24:27

incapable of making a sound decision or

24:30

having a position on

24:32

whether or not I wanted to have kids . I

24:34

got fired and then I up

24:37

moving back to , um, so my

24:39

and of , and

24:42

I was like , when you change

24:44

your location, you can change everything. So

24:47

I was like, right , I started

24:49

doing advertising with the

24:52

regional LGBTQ newspaper.

24:55

Um , those used to be a thing . They were wonderful and

24:57

awesome and some of them still exist and the

25:00

press was in , was

25:04

everything . And particularly

25:06

in , in a small town like St. Louis where,

25:09

you know, there's no protection for

25:12

people, still no civil protections

25:14

on the books. So people use

25:17

the newspaper as a , as a resource

25:19

to prevent awkward encounters, violent

25:22

encounters being denied services . So

25:24

it was a great way to learn the city and

25:27

also learn the politics of

25:29

that policy . And then on top

25:31

of working for that newspaper, I

25:34

went and started volunteering through a

25:36

woman's group at local shelters

25:38

. And the shelters that they chose just

25:42

happened to choose shelters for pregnant

25:45

or recent moms or

25:47

parents who were homeless.

25:49

And so, but were on a waiting

25:51

list for transitional housing. So in

25:54

St . Louis, Missouri, there are a

25:57

ton of these shelters because

26:00

Missouri has a really messed up system

26:02

where if you are 15 or 16

26:04

years old, you are considered

26:07

incapable of making a decision about

26:10

whether or not to continue a pregnancy. If

26:12

you are 16 and have a child

26:14

, you are considered

26:17

an adult , a separate family . And

26:19

so you have to government

26:22

subsidized housing and then back in

26:24

, so there's like the

26:27

system ISBs upset with

26:30

the idea of the , you

26:33

know , the nineteens welfare mom

26:36

is , you know , to the system . And

26:38

as result to have , people are

26:41

away from their support system for

26:44

just stupid reasons and

26:47

forced to, you know, wait

26:49

for transitional housing or wait

26:52

to get approved to go back into their home

26:55

at a moment when they need their family more

26:57

than anything . So I

26:59

was doing , I was supposed to go in and

27:02

do basic budgeting and I

27:04

dunno why they thought I would be the right person to

27:06

do that if they'd my

27:09

credit, they would not made

27:11

that decision . But my first

27:13

day of my first class , I

27:16

walked in convinced that all

27:18

of these women were in

27:21

this situation because of something they

27:23

had failed to do and

27:26

that I was gonna teach

27:29

them about basic financial management and

27:32

fix this . And I

27:34

am to this day grateful to

27:37

that first class of 10 women who

27:40

one of whom interrupted five minutes

27:42

into spiel and went

27:44

off like cussed me out. Like

27:46

I haven't been cussed out since grade

27:49

school. And it was , and

27:52

she was right in the fact that I did

27:54

not know their lives . I did not

27:57

know anything about the circumstances that

27:59

they were with . I did not understand

28:02

, you know , what it was like to

28:04

have a , a relative use your

28:07

social security number to set up a

28:09

gas account because they , they needed

28:11

heat in the house and then now you can't

28:14

get an apartment 18 years later

28:16

. So, you know, I

28:18

decided to take this note and

28:21

rather than , you know, get pissy

28:24

about it, I was like, you're right, I have

28:26

a lot to learn. And so I

28:28

said, we're gonna learn together and I'm

28:30

gonna to learn from you

28:33

what you're dealing with and why . And I'm

28:36

gonna to share with you that there's

28:38

a system of government at the local

28:40

, state and federal level

28:43

that is being paid to

28:45

work problems like yours and the

28:47

needs to be forced to do this . So

28:50

that was the partnership that we entered into <laugh>

28:53

. And I did this work , I

28:55

volunteered with two shelters for six years

28:58

and through that process I

29:01

learned that we are failing

29:03

pregnant people and particularly

29:07

failing pregnant teens . That

29:09

the level of stigma and shame

29:11

that is tossed outta parenting teens

29:14

is just outrageous . And I've

29:16

witnessed it with teens

29:19

and I just wanna a shoe and that

29:21

, you know , a lot of the work

29:23

that needs to happen needs to happen with

29:26

my generation and, you

29:28

know, millennials and how we're oriented

29:31

toward younger folks and

29:34

what they're faced with and what they're dealing

29:36

with . So, you know, it was a big

29:38

education for me . It really was

29:41

the first time I was deconstructing

29:44

some of the biases that I grew up with . But

29:47

I also got see that

29:49

amazing moment when women

29:52

, you know , are connected

29:54

to their political power and they

29:57

shift from saying , I

29:59

could call this person but they're not gonna do anything

30:02

to what's the name of

30:04

my older person. I wanna call

30:06

them about x . And I dragged like

30:09

older people , the mayor , the <laugh>

30:11

, I , you know, representatives,

30:14

state senators , you know , people from the

30:17

attorney general's office . I was like , you

30:20

need to come and talk to these folks about the

30:23

inadequate housing that they're dealing with and

30:25

all of these other things. The other thing

30:28

that I became horrified

30:31

and then committed to work on was

30:34

that I was overhearing a conversation at

30:36

the end of class four of the

30:39

students were talking about somebody

30:42

who had passed away as a result of

30:44

a pregnancy. And in

30:46

hearing them talk about it , I was confused cause I'm like , are

30:48

you talking about the same person ? And

30:51

they were like , no , I was just my friend so

30:53

and so passed away and I know my

30:56

so and so passed away . And people

31:00

in that room , 13

31:02

of them knew more than one person who had

31:04

passed away within a year of

31:07

giving birth . Not the same people at

31:10

all . And I was , I

31:12

mean I was physically ill at

31:15

that and , and immediately doing

31:18

research because , you know, I

31:20

had thought that the people I'd

31:22

had heard of who had had traumatic birth experience

31:25

were unique. And

31:27

then I realized, wow, this

31:30

is , this is way bigger . And

31:32

of course, you know, when you, when you're working

31:35

with poor people who are

31:37

forced to return to work week after

31:39

giving birth who you know, aren't

31:42

given time to pump milk to

31:45

do basic, you know, recovery

31:48

from childbirth, it's not

31:52

100% shocking . But a

31:54

huge part of me was horrified

31:57

that we were in a

31:59

state , in a city where people are

32:02

constantly pontificating about

32:05

supporting a culture of life . And

32:07

yet black women and

32:10

black people who experience pregnancy

32:14

are dying at this rate

32:17

compared to the mainstream population. And

32:20

nobody wants to even talk about it . Like nobody's

32:22

even remotely interested in

32:25

talking about it . And that is sad , you

32:27

know , for people in political power . That's

32:29

, that's still the case in , in

32:32

most of the Midwest where folks

32:34

are activists are the

32:37

issue . But there is not an

32:40

out and out discuss at

32:42

a society that, that sees

32:44

those numbers and just shrugs it off . So

32:47

I was hooked and I had

32:50

committed myself to being

32:52

a positive force in

32:55

lowering in maternal mortality

32:58

rates and by any means necessary

33:00

, including my

33:03

current job . Which one of the things that

33:05

really attracted me to

33:08

taking the helmed medical students for choice was

33:11

the ability to infuse into

33:13

some of the curriculum reform measures that we

33:16

work on , anti-racism

33:18

and the reproductive justice framework

33:21

so that med students before they

33:23

go into residency are thinking about

33:26

how their work and their practice is

33:29

, plays a role in either dismantling

33:32

racial health disparities or

33:35

contributing to them . So that was

33:38

one of the things that really appealed to

33:40

me. So in the middle

33:42

of all this volunteer work, I was also writing

33:44

a blog. One of my coworkers who's

33:46

now like a brother to me , gave me

33:48

a blog for my birthday because I was a

33:51

mouthy person and basically

33:55

said you should totally write a blog. And

33:58

I started writing it just for my

34:00

friends and then I kept

34:02

doing it cause it was

34:04

a great way for me to vent about the

34:07

issues that I was uncovering through

34:09

my volunteer work and you know, political

34:11

volunteer work. And then ultimately

34:15

after a year I , somebody told

34:17

me that I should put some sort of tracking

34:19

on it and I realized other people were

34:21

reading it. So I did

34:24

a post about King Kong and all

34:26

of a sudden, which is I hate that movie,

34:28

I hate the whole story. I didn't

34:30

realize people were really, really passionate about King

34:32

Kong or did not know . Yeah

34:35

, I had no idea . And

34:38

I wrote a post in less than

34:40

20 minutes and I didn't even

34:42

have my own laptop. So I wrote it at work , <laugh>

34:45

logged off back on

34:49

and I had like two thousands and

34:51

I was like , what you so freaking mad ? This

34:55

sucks . So I think that was what

34:57

I realized other people were reading me and

34:59

I worked really hard throughout a

35:02

decade of writing that blog <laugh> , I can't

35:04

believe they wrote for that long . But I

35:06

worked really hard not to think about people reading

35:09

it, but really just to talk about what

35:11

I was experiencing and what

35:13

I was seeing and the

35:16

hypocrisy of politics

35:18

in what people say they care about versus

35:21

what they're willing to work on. So

35:23

I was doing reproductive justice work

35:26

through the blog and through my volunteer

35:28

work, but did not have that framework

35:31

in , in that term to really describe

35:34

it . And then when I moved over to work at Planned Parenthood,

35:37

I was able to connect with activists

35:39

all over the country . I was at

35:41

Planned Parenthood in Missouri and

35:44

realized , okay , there is a framework for

35:47

this and there are people who are

35:49

using intersectionality not just

35:52

to analyze reproductive oppression but

35:54

really to tear it down. And so

35:56

I was super excited by that and

35:59

I spent the next five years trying

36:01

to make change within the

36:04

system , but also really I'm

36:06

like , I'm natural introvert . So I

36:08

was like studying the system as well to

36:11

say like , what's working , what's not working? I

36:14

realized that I was not gonna be able to make

36:16

substantive change in the system

36:18

and left to

36:21

work at a communications

36:24

hub for two years. It worked

36:26

on every progressive issue in

36:29

Missouri . And then after two years of

36:31

learning everything there is to learn about , I

36:34

believe the term is rat <laugh>

36:36

, I think it's like how

36:38

do you, how do you properly ship

36:41

the third ? I loved it, but I

36:43

received an email from my friend

36:45

Erin Mattson and she

36:48

sent me an email asking me the question , if

36:51

you have time , I'd love to talk to you about what

36:53

do you think the reproductive health rights

36:56

and justice movement is doing, right.

36:58

What do you think they're doing wrong? Are

37:00

we losing if we're losing why

37:04

in what's missing ? And I was

37:06

so glad I checked <laugh> . That's

37:08

ok . And I immediately replied

37:11

and said , how do have's

37:14

history that , you know , we got

37:17

together and after two

37:20

focus groups and many conversations,

37:23

we decided to co-found

37:25

repro action , which really

37:28

was to me a

37:30

life altering experience. It

37:33

was such a , a rare

37:35

happening to be , you know, a

37:37

black Midwesterner who's able to

37:40

co-found a national reproductive

37:42

justice organization. And I

37:44

was very aware of the

37:46

rare opportunity and that it shouldn't

37:48

be so rare , but that most of most

37:51

national organizations are anchored on the

37:53

coast . The other thing that was

37:56

super fun is that , you know, we

37:58

were intentionally to the

38:00

left of the mainstream. So, you

38:02

know, calling in the movement

38:05

was challenging

38:07

but also very cathartic.

38:10

It was , you know , not just for me

38:12

, but also for the people

38:14

who volunteered on our direct actions

38:16

and were like , this is amazing.

38:19

Like, I love being able to demonstrate

38:22

that we can do direct action protests

38:25

in front of crisis pregnancy centers. Co-founding

38:28

repro action was

38:30

an opportunity for me to , to

38:32

see like a theory proof true,

38:35

which is that, you

38:37

know, direct action was, it has been a

38:39

component in every single right that

38:42

I have in gaining it

38:44

and in holding it and then, you

38:46

know, defending it. And so for

38:48

me, you know, I think we forgot the

38:51

mainstream movement, certainly forgot that and

38:54

began to rely way

38:56

too heavily on the courts and on,

38:58

you know, legislative strategies.

39:01

But direct action is a wonderful

39:03

way to educate the masses as well.

39:05

And what has been lacking

39:08

and what is still lacking is

39:11

sadly we're getting a clinic now

39:14

and exactly why we need bodily

39:16

autonomy, but was just a

39:18

deep understanding of why these rights are

39:20

dear and that they are

39:22

worthy of, you know, camping out

39:25

in front of a crisis pregnancy center for three

39:27

hours that they're worthy of direct

39:29

action. And you

39:31

know, it's far easier to defend

39:35

, uh, a right than

39:37

to try to get it back after

39:40

it's gone. And , um,

39:42

I think we're all experiencing

39:44

that now. Um, so

39:47

yeah, when I, when I co-founded

39:50

refraction is still like the , one of

39:52

the , if not the crowning achievement of my

39:54

professional work in medical

39:56

students for choice is just a

39:59

natural, to me a natural pivot

40:01

that, you know, I saw that repro

40:04

action definitely was able

40:07

to move on and grow. And,

40:10

and I think for any founder, co-founder that's

40:12

like your ultimate dream. And

40:14

I'm so proud to still be

40:16

serving on the Advisory Council of Reproduction,

40:19

but the opportunity to work

40:23

on medical education when

40:26

I saw way back in 2016

40:28

, you know, if we don't

40:31

protect this skillset and

40:34

this in the pipeline that

40:38

we are gonna have a heck of a time rebuilding

40:40

access. And after November

40:42

of 2016 , I knew we would lose

40:45

ROE and in some capacity

40:47

and I knew that we would be

40:50

up with the fight of our lives. So

40:52

I was very much so drawn as

40:54

a movement person to medical students for

40:57

choice. But yeah, I think, you

40:59

know, my journey has been like

41:02

a lot of people that I kind of fell

41:04

into it got off <laugh>

41:07

and gradually at a certain point you're

41:09

like , oh God, this is , this should be a full

41:12

time job so I need

41:14

to figure out how to get paid .

41:17

Yeah , I feel you . I always talk about my journey as

41:19

like, it's not, it wasn't a path,

41:21

it was just like a bunch of stepping stones

41:23

and then all of a sudden mm-hmm . <affirmative> like, this

41:25

is what I'm doing and could not imagine doing

41:28

any other work.

41:28

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, no. Yeah. Yeah.

41:31

And, and I tell people when they're

41:33

like, oh, you know, what do you recommend

41:35

people do to, to get

41:38

started? And I'm always saying, you know,

41:41

you know , attend a clinic escort training.

41:43

I think those are awesome , but

41:46

also just go to a lobby

41:48

day because you don't

41:50

have to be a 100%

41:53

in love with the political process. Like,

41:55

I get it, it's broken in

41:57

a lot of places, including my home

41:59

state until you've been

42:02

to a state legislative legislature

42:05

and sat down and talked to

42:07

people about something as

42:09

basic as the right for trans

42:12

kids to not be bullied when

42:14

they go to the bathroom or the

42:17

right that people should be able

42:19

to sue their employer for calling them the

42:21

N-word. Or that people

42:23

should have the right to make

42:26

medical decisions about their body

42:28

that aren't regulated

42:31

by doctors

42:34

who won an election in

42:37

Dunlin County, Missouri. Until

42:39

you've experienced that, you

42:41

don't know how people like me

42:44

are made . Cause that

42:47

process alone , well I

42:50

think I don't , I've yet to meet somebody

42:52

who has walked out of a lobby day and

42:54

not been like, this is crazy

42:57

like this, this is wrong.

43:00

And these people are not

43:03

listening and they're not operating

43:06

from a place of science or law or

43:08

public service . And if that

43:11

doesn't make an activist out of you , I don't know

43:14

what well, but it certainly

43:16

did for me. And if you're lucky enough, actually

43:19

there's not a single state legislature in

43:21

the country, none that

43:23

are functional. So even if you're

43:26

in Oregon or Hawaii

43:29

or Massachusetts, you're dealing with people

43:32

making decisions based on everything

43:35

but the rights of the individual

43:38

in the best interests of individual

43:41

liberty. You know, and it,

43:43

it's horrible. And they'll look you right in the face

43:45

and say it , you know, I remember lobbying

43:48

on abortion and

43:51

being in a , in a committee hearing

43:54

and one of the, like we

43:56

were asking one of the sponsors of the bill,

43:58

like, like he was pushing

44:01

up into Beyond Viability

44:03

and we're just like, that doesn't

44:06

make any sense . And I'm like , well what's

44:08

a reason ? He's , we're like , how

44:10

do you say that's a reasonable abortion

44:14

restriction ? And he's like, well I

44:16

think you know, that we should be banning

44:18

abortion up to nine months. Like,

44:20

period. Like he basically

44:22

was joking that, that

44:25

I don't think we should have it be legal at

44:27

all. And I'm like, so we're

44:29

not having a debate about abortion

44:31

restrictions and we haven't been

44:34

for quite some time. And now

44:36

we're on the flip side of it where,

44:39

you know, folks like me who

44:41

are struggling a little bit

44:43

with the fact that our

44:45

life's work is not

44:48

where we wanted it to be and

44:50

where we hoped it to be, but

44:52

still committed to, you

44:55

know, making, you know, helping us

44:57

get into in the right direction and

44:59

not doing more harm. But

45:02

for us it's like, okay , now

45:04

we need to document what we're

45:06

seeing and we need to hold people accountable

45:09

for what's happening because

45:11

we've moved on June 24th, we

45:14

moved away from propaganda

45:16

and dogma and into

45:19

reality . The reality is horrific. It

45:21

is already having devastating consequences on

45:24

medical education. It will have, as

45:26

a result , horrific consequences

45:30

on accesss to the

45:32

best OBGYN care in 26

45:34

states. Even with

45:37

some of the wins that we just saw.

45:39

You cannot , you cannot

45:41

replace a constitutional right

45:44

to autonomy on a state by state basis

45:46

. You simply cannot . And I'm

45:48

optimistic because we

45:50

don't have any other option but

45:53

to fix this, I'm

45:55

hoping that it doesn't take as long as it did in

45:57

Ireland. But I'm also mindful

46:00

that we need to document this

46:03

because losing sight of

46:05

the facts is a

46:07

little bit of how we got here. And

46:09

then also people not having a

46:11

deep personal understanding of

46:13

what's at risk and how it's connected to

46:16

them . And then white suburban

46:18

voters, women voters being

46:22

convinced that they can whip out a credit

46:24

card and circum the restriction

46:26

, uh, didn't help either . It certainly

46:28

didn't help in 2016 . So I

46:30

think ultimately we

46:33

need to figure out, or I will say

46:35

this like we don't need to figure out,

46:37

but I think white

46:39

women need to start talking to white women and

46:43

having courageous conversations

46:45

in uncomfortable thanksgivings because

46:48

I clearly am not the right person to

46:51

have those conversations . But they didn't <laugh> , but

46:53

they need to happen <laugh> .

46:56

Yes. And I think , uh, I

46:58

would love to like kind of add on to what you were talking

47:00

about, like how to get involved. I think another

47:02

question that I'm sure you get a

47:04

lot from young people who

47:07

are just graduating or whatever

47:09

is like really stressing about like what

47:12

their next step is and wanting to

47:14

make sure they make the right choice. And

47:16

I think part of the reason I do this

47:18

like series of origin stories is

47:21

in response to that question of showing there

47:24

is no right choice. Your path is your path and

47:26

you make it mm-hmm . <affirmative> . And so don't stress over

47:28

that as as much , but I I'm sure you also have

47:30

thoughts around that as well.

47:33

Oh my God, yes . I'm so glad you asked that because

47:36

you know , what I hope comes in my origin

47:38

story is that I did

47:41

not start doing this work in

47:43

a committed way until I was

47:45

30 . That life does

47:48

not start to wind down. Sorry

47:50

. Like I am , trust

47:53

me, most people do not know

47:55

me from my broadcast radio sales

47:57

days in Dallas like that

48:00

, that this work defines

48:03

me. And I say that without regret,

48:05

proud of it. I hope that when

48:08

I die, if I have a tombstone that

48:10

they put abortion rights activists on

48:12

it, that I didn't start doing

48:14

this until I was 30 and that I took

48:17

the road less traveled . That

48:19

I don't think anything

48:22

that I did along the way

48:24

was wrong. It's not, it

48:26

didn't delay anything. Everything happened

48:29

when it was supposed to happen. And with

48:31

the exception of I

48:34

think having a really clear

48:37

understanding of

48:39

what leadership feels, and I don't

48:41

know how you get that until you're in

48:43

a leadership position, but just

48:45

it's isolating when things are

48:47

really going bad. It can

48:50

, that you feel bad <laugh> . Um

48:52

, I definitely felt it

48:54

, you know, after the league . So

48:56

it's been a long year. But other

48:58

than that, yeah, you know, I

49:01

wouldn't change anything and I wouldn't

49:03

change the leadership. I just think it , it

49:05

would be interesting if I'd done a little more research.

49:10

How can you, can you prepare for the

49:12

future constitutional destruction

49:15

of your work? <laugh> ? Yeah.

49:19

Yeah. It was hard to

49:21

get in that head space .

49:23

No , I'm still working on it. I think now

49:25

that now that I have a little time to

49:27

breathe , it's hitting me and

49:30

I, and I think for

49:32

me it's, it's dealing with,

49:34

I've always been the type of person to look

49:37

back at a project or a campaign and

49:39

think about what I could do better . And

49:41

so for me it's like I look back and

49:44

I'm like , I could done , I could done that

49:46

. That's not that I think I alone could

49:48

fix anything , but just you

49:51

look back and you're just like, oh

49:54

my God. And then a tremendous sense

49:56

of guilt, which I know

49:59

is misplaced, but, and

50:01

I'm not, oh , it's not Catholic guilt .

50:03

Oh , that'ss so close to <laugh> <laugh>

50:05

.

50:06

It's , it's huge . Like it's that

50:09

I , I've not cried about

50:13

anything as much as I've cried about what

50:16

we're leaving and and what

50:19

young people are facing and for my friends

50:21

who have children that

50:24

what they're going to have to dig out of

50:27

I tremendous guilt , tremendous

50:30

guilt . And I think you don't do this work if you

50:32

don't wanna win . Like if you're

50:34

not that now , which

50:37

I think is perfectly normal and have to

50:39

process like grieving , but

50:41

if you're not feeling that guilt and weren't probably

50:44

weren't in <laugh> . Cause

50:46

everybody I know who is all in is like,

50:48

oh my God , like that's the hardest

50:51

thing . The hardest part.

50:53

Yeah. I'm trying to be good about looking

50:55

back and it's like projects

50:57

big and small, right? Like mm-hmm

51:00

<affirmative> and trying to do it in productive

51:02

ways and not unproductive

51:04

ways. So like, yeah . Yeah . I have

51:06

found, like with the podcast, I cannot go

51:08

back and re-listen if I can help it

51:10

because I just hear all the things

51:13

I feel like I should have said better and

51:15

that's not helpful. That just gets in my head. No

51:17

.

51:17

Yep . Yep . And I think it's the same thing . It's like , what

51:20

could I have written differently or

51:23

what speech could I have done? So

51:25

I

51:26

Could just say the one right thing and

51:28

everything would be better .

51:30

Exactly. Exactly. But

51:33

I think ultimately what it comes down to

51:35

is that even with

51:37

the guilt, I don't have regret.

51:40

Like I, I'm

51:43

processing guilt because where

51:45

we are now is hurting people

51:48

and will hurt people and that's

51:50

what I was working and

51:53

will p hurt the people that I care about

51:55

the most, the people most impacted

51:57

by reproductive oppression. But

51:59

I do not regret this at

52:02

all . And I think it's a little bit

52:04

like when people, you

52:06

know, go for a big

52:08

goal and if you don't

52:11

hit it, you don't necessarily regret

52:13

not hitting it. I don't regret a single

52:16

second I've spent, I don't

52:18

regret the holidays that

52:20

I've missed or <laugh> <laugh> , like

52:23

how many times I was out there in a hundred degree

52:25

heat doorn knocking for people or

52:28

you know, being called genocidal

52:33

who while walking into work

52:35

several times. I don't regret

52:37

any of it because it was in the

52:40

cause in of justice . So

52:43

it's a privilege and I'm not done

52:45

. So to

52:49

Well that feels like the perfect place to stop. Thank

52:51

you so much for sharing your story. I really

52:54

am grateful that you took the time to do it.

52:56

Yay . I hope it wasn't too ramly and boring <laugh>

52:59

.

53:00

No, it was perfect. Okay

53:03

everybody, I hope you enjoyed

53:05

hearing this first part of a two

53:08

part sexual reproductive health

53:10

rights and justice hero origin stories.

53:13

I had so much fun learning

53:15

everybody's origins today and

53:18

I cannot wait for y'all to hear the rest. My

53:21

origin story will actually be included in

53:23

the second part. Uh , so many, many of you have

53:25

already heard mine numerous times, so

53:27

it's gonna be hidden at the end of the

53:30

, the second part. So just fyi.

53:32

And with that, if you have any

53:35

questions, please feel free to shoot me

53:37

an email at jenny repro

53:40

fight back.com and that's Jenny

53:42

with an ie. Or you can

53:44

reach out to us on social media, on

53:46

Facebook and Twitter at re Pros, fight Back

53:49

or on Instagram at repro fb

53:52

. Otherwise, I will see you next week for

53:54

a special bonus episode. For

53:57

more information including show notes from

53:59

this episode and previous episodes, please

54:02

visit us at our [email protected].

54:06

You can also find us on Facebook and

54:08

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54:10

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54:13

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54:15

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54:17

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54:20

for listening.