0:04

Welcomes reprots fight back a

0:07

podcast where we explore all things

0:09

reproductive health, rights and justice. I'm

0:11

your host, Jenny wetter and I'll

0:13

be helping you stay informed around issues like

0:16

birth control, abortion, sex education

0:19

and LGBTQ issues and

0:21

much, much more giving you

0:23

the tools you need to take action

0:25

and fight back. Okay, let's dive in.

0:36

[inaudible]

0:36

hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode

0:38

of reprots fight back. I'm your

0:40

host, Jenny wetter. I

0:43

hope everybody has had a wonderful international

0:45

women's day. That was this

0:48

past Sunday. I spent it tabling

0:50

at a conference for the podcasts , so

0:52

I got to talk to a lot of people about

0:54

the podcast, which is always a

0:56

lot of fun. So this week's

0:58

episode we're going to be talking about state

1:01

level attacks on abortion access

1:03

and also what States are doing to protect

1:05

abortion access. Because right now you're

1:08

really seeing a divide in the

1:10

U S and what States are doing and

1:12

people's ability to access reproductive health

1:15

care . To reinforce that. I'm going to talk a little bit

1:17

before we start the podcast about

1:20

the 50 state report card on reproductive health

1:22

and rights that I published

1:24

as part of my job at the population

1:27

Institute for the last eight years.

1:29

We have done a report card looking

1:31

at what States are doing

1:33

on reproductive health and rights and measuring

1:36

them against each other and then also giving

1:38

a national grade ministries

1:40

report card just recently came out, so

1:42

it seemed like a good time to do a quick little check

1:45

in on that. So as you

1:47

will hear in today's episode, things

1:49

are not looking great at the state

1:51

level. So when we first did the report

1:53

card eight years ago, we gave nine States

1:56

a failing grade and this year's

1:58

report card we had 21 States

2:00

receiving a failing grade and

2:02

maybe you've been following what's been happening. That's

2:04

not super surprising. There've

2:07

been a lot of attacks on reproductive

2:09

health on many different fronts.

2:12

What was also most concerning this year is

2:15

this year for the first time we had

2:17

to drop the U S grade to anF as

2:19

well. With all of the attacks

2:22

from the Trump Pence administration really

2:25

just only made sense. You

2:28

know, in the last year we saw the title 10

2:30

domestic gag rule restrictions going into

2:32

effect. You also have

2:34

seen the administration attacking sex

2:36

education and really pushing sexual

2:39

risk avoidance, also known as abstinence,

2:41

only also known as not effective

2:44

and not evidence-based.

2:46

The other thing that is really concerning, and we talked

2:48

about a while ago and it's probably time to

2:50

have a wrap on, is the way

2:52

that the Trump Pence administration is

2:54

reshaping the federal judiciary.

2:57

So it's not just the Supreme court we have worry about,

2:59

it's all of the lower federal courts as

3:01

well. So hearing challenges

3:04

on reproductive

3:06

laws that were passed or any

3:09

are LGBTQ rights. You know, a lot

3:11

of these courts are getting more conservative because

3:13

of the number of Trump appointed judges.

3:16

So you know, some of this is going to be have

3:18

ramifications for decades to come, particularly

3:21

the judges. The Trump

3:23

administration has really appointed a lot of very

3:25

young white male judges

3:28

to the bench. So it's going to have and

3:30

very anti choice. And I

3:32

know that kind of goes without saying, but just

3:34

to reinstate, they're very anti-abortion

3:37

and so that could really affect people's ability

3:39

to access reproductive healthcare for a long time.

3:42

So you can check out the report card,

3:45

our [email protected]

3:48

slash report card and you can look and see

3:51

how your state is doing and

3:53

see all the other States. So

3:55

I hope you all get a chance to check it out. Okay,

3:58

now to this week's episode, right , I'm talking

4:01

to Sophia Kirby with

4:03

the state innovation exchange. So

4:05

I hope you enjoy our interview. Hi

4:08

Sophia. Thanks so much for being here. Hi

4:10

Jenny. Thanks for having me. I'm

4:12

really excited to talk about what's happening in the

4:14

States. I feel like we focused a

4:16

lot on a national

4:19

level of conversation and a lot

4:21

of the action is happening at the state level,

4:24

but yes, tons is happening at the state level.

4:26

State legislative sessions have just

4:29

opened , so most are a

4:31

couple of weeks into it. But yes, lots of definitely happening

4:33

at the States.

4:35

So we're going to end positive and

4:37

talking about the good news coming

4:39

from this date. But let's start

4:41

with the bad news and some of the

4:43

negative uh, actions

4:46

or trends we've been seeing at the

4:48

state level. Do you have a particular

4:50

one you want to jump in on first?

4:52

Well, there's lots happening so I'll, I'll guess

4:54

I'll start with focusing on just

4:57

Aisha bands , which we saw pretty

4:59

heavily in 2019 and we're seeing a little

5:01

bit in 2020 and can you know, consider

5:04

it to anticipate it continuing.

5:06

But States are definitely focusing on

5:09

restricting pregnancy at different

5:11

points throughout pregnancy. So whether

5:13

that's a six week ban or a 24

5:15

week ban, we definitely see States

5:17

having an even larger focus than they

5:19

have in previous sessions on restricting

5:22

abortion later in pregnancy, which has

5:24

unique challenges for patients. We're

5:26

seeing definitely an uptick

5:29

in restrictions around abortion

5:31

medication reversal. So, but

5:33

force physicians to tell their patients that they

5:36

are able to stop after receiving

5:38

abortion inducing drugs, which is very

5:40

dangerous.

5:41

Yeah, I mean I think that's definitely worth like

5:43

pausing for a second because like a

5:45

study being done to see if this

5:47

was even like an actual thing

5:50

had to be stopped because patients'

5:52

lives were at risk. Yes, exactly.

5:55

And so

5:56

I think what we miss out

5:58

is a lot of these restrictions while

6:01

are often said in the name of trying to protect

6:04

women or trying to protect our access to

6:06

care is actually forcing

6:08

physicians to say medically inaccurate

6:10

information. It's forcing physicians to

6:13

go against their best judgment and to go

6:15

against their oath of doing no harm and

6:18

putting folks in a really difficult place.

6:20

Yeah, that's a really hard

6:22

place to put doctors to

6:24

do something they don't agree with

6:27

completely, completely. And

6:29

you know, medication reversal

6:31

laws are not the only policies that

6:34

are forcing physicians to go

6:36

against their best medical judgment.

6:39

Right . So we're also seeing an uptick in quote

6:41

unquote born alive bills,

6:43

which Oh yes,

6:46

everyone is seeing those left and right. So

6:48

they would force physicians to

6:51

provide medical care

6:53

to a fetus post.

6:56

In the event that after induction they

6:58

are had evidence of life, which

7:01

is some folks concerns we really complicated

7:03

and wonky. But at

7:05

the end of the day, for example,

7:08

let's say that a patient discovers

7:11

with their physician that they are carrying a fetus

7:13

that has a fetal anomaly, right? And so that

7:15

means that once that fetus is born,

7:19

their , their time of life is very limited. Maybe a

7:21

couple of hours, maybe a couple of days. Right? And so that

7:24

patient, that physician might decide, okay,

7:27

I choose to and

7:29

do labor induction, which a

7:31

patient would be induced like any other

7:33

pregnancy and the physician would provide

7:36

comfort care for as long as that

7:38

baby is with their parents and able

7:40

to provide loving and compassionate

7:43

care and for the duration of that baby's

7:45

life, born alive bills would

7:47

make that type of love and compassionate

7:49

care illegal. So

7:51

a physician would be forced to provide

7:55

resuscitation or any type of other

7:57

support to try and revive

7:59

that baby even though that's true wreckly against

8:02

the patient's wishes. And again, directly

8:04

against that really important

8:07

patient physician relationship where they're making

8:09

decisions together. About the type of care they

8:12

want to provide for their, throughout their pregnancy.

8:15

Yeah, that's definitely one that we're seeing pop up.

8:17

I mean it's being debated in

8:19

the Senate very soon or actually

8:21

by the time this comes out because it'll

8:23

be early March, it might have already happened.

8:26

So it's one of those that

8:28

is the like emotional

8:31

talking point that sounds

8:34

that the right really loves to like try

8:37

it out like that they're killing babies

8:39

when they're born and not digging

8:42

deeper into it. You know when you're talking

8:44

about gestational limits, the same with like the

8:46

so called heartbeat bands , right?

8:48

Like it sounds, it's like the

8:50

emotional pull instead

8:52

of looking at the actual facts

8:55

completely. And I think that at the

8:57

end of the day, any restrictions that

9:00

are focused on by

9:02

abortion, there are focused on regulating how's

9:05

someone is choosing what to do

9:07

with their body is all rooted in power

9:09

and control the same States

9:11

that are aggressively a pet

9:13

passing abortion restrictions are the same States

9:16

to have really, really poor maternal

9:18

health outcomes. So it's not, these

9:20

aren't, you can't say that it's about protecting

9:23

women's health because it blatantly isn't. Right.

9:26

The same States that are heavily

9:28

restricting abortion, other reproductive

9:32

care are the same ones

9:34

that have no policies

9:36

to support working families or policies that support

9:39

that fetus or that potential child once it

9:41

comes to life. Right. So there are, there

9:44

, there is no indication that these policies

9:46

are actually helpful medically that

9:49

they do anything

9:51

to protect a person's health and it's

9:53

clear based on other policies that are being passed

9:55

that it actually isn't about supporting families

9:57

and supporting women. It's really about control

10:00

and power.

10:03

Yeah, no that's the bottom line.

10:06

Um, you know, and I think again that goes

10:08

into another trend you're seeing,

10:10

which is BAMS on the reason why

10:12

people are having an abortion. Yeah

10:15

. Which again often rooted in power

10:17

. Some of them rooted in racist stereotypes.

10:20

Yes. We've definitely seen an uptick

10:22

in recent bands as well, which, which

10:24

would restrict why a person

10:26

chooses to get an abortion. We see

10:29

recent vans popping up based

10:31

on race of the fetus, based on gender

10:34

of the fetus and based on disability

10:36

of the fetus. And again,

10:39

someone's home language that we often hear is,

10:42

well those are not real reasons,

10:44

quote unquote, why is that a reason to a board

10:46

? How can someone make that decision, that choice

10:49

and ultimately why someone

10:52

chooses to have an abortion is no

10:54

one's decision outside that individual and

10:56

that and whomever that person decides

10:58

to consult on their decision. Right.

11:01

And I think particularly for reason bands,

11:03

they're targeting specific communities

11:06

who physicians

11:08

then have to make assumptions on who they

11:10

think would have an abortion based

11:12

on race or who they think would have an abortion

11:14

based on gender. And that really,

11:17

really targets can use of color.

11:19

Particularly I had the under the day

11:22

reason . Bands in my opinion are really a

11:24

slippery slope as to controlling

11:26

why it's okay for someone to have

11:29

an abortion. If we say, okay, we understand

11:31

that it's a difficult decision and

11:34

let's for argument's sake say that

11:38

people are starting to feel more comfortable with, okay,

11:40

well I actually don't think you should be able to have an abortion

11:42

based on gender. Well, what's the, what's

11:44

the, what's the trickle down effect to that? Are

11:46

we then going to say that, well, we don't

11:49

need to be economically stable in

11:51

order to bring in a happy and healthy

11:53

challenge this world. So that is no longer

11:56

a reason why it's okay to have an abortion.

11:58

Again, it's so deeply rooted

12:01

power and control over why

12:03

a person decides to make a decision for themselves.

12:05

And it's not about the healthcare at all.

12:08

Yeah. It's like this myth of the [inaudible] there's

12:10

a good reason and

12:12

bad reasons and this,

12:14

it really helps. Exactly.

12:17

It's just your reason. There was no good or a bad reason

12:19

to have an abortion. It's just a

12:22

person's individual choice. Absolutely.

12:25

And I think, and you know the another group

12:27

that we had talked about

12:29

before we started the interview was young

12:31

people are also being targeted again.

12:35

Yes. Yes . So actually

12:37

by the time this podcast comes out to have already

12:40

happened, unfortunately or very likely, but

12:42

Florida is actually hearing

12:44

a parental notification bill today

12:46

on their house floor. And so if

12:49

it advances, it will require at least

12:51

one parent two , um

12:53

, to be done with fight of a minor receiving,

12:57

receiving an abortion. I think parental notification

12:59

laws in general have various

13:02

degrees. Either they can dictate

13:05

the apparent being just notified,

13:07

having to give explicit consent.

13:10

It varies based on that has to be a

13:12

notarized documentation

13:14

from a judge. And so it varies depending upon

13:17

the legislation and the bills. But

13:19

ultimately, again, I think it's rooted in this

13:23

false hood that young people are unable to make

13:25

decisions for themselves, that they must have

13:27

additional support. And the reality is that the

13:29

vast majority of young people who choose to

13:32

access to abortion or doing that and consultation

13:34

with an adult figure in their life, I

13:37

think particularly parental notification

13:39

laws have other consequences

13:41

and other barriers that we might not think of. You're

13:43

assuming that a young person is

13:45

Anna households with a , with a

13:48

an adults or with a guardian that

13:50

they feel safe, that they feel comfortable, that they're

13:52

able to go to that type of

13:54

legislation also puts families

13:57

who are undocumented or I'm mixed

13:59

status households at risk because they

14:01

then have to engage with the

14:03

government in order to access care for their child's,

14:06

which also has implications. It's

14:08

really multi-layer and again, it's forcing

14:11

communities whom have the least

14:13

amount of resources to go through all these

14:15

hoops in order to get the care that they deserve

14:17

in some of the hoops that get created are

14:20

quite high for, for anyone.

14:22

But particularly for maybe young

14:24

people who haven't had to deal with

14:27

having to, you know, finds

14:29

someone to go to court and like get

14:31

a judicial bypass. And sometimes

14:34

it's not even that easy. There's like extra

14:36

hoops. So you know, it's

14:39

a lot to navigate for anyone. Yes,

14:41

it's a lot to navigate for anyone, let

14:44

alone asking a young person who

14:46

may or may not be in school, may or

14:48

may not also be juggling a

14:51

side job. We're asking

14:53

folks to jump through unimaginable

14:56

barriers to get the care that they need. I

15:00

think one other thing that I'd mentioned earlier,

15:02

but we haven't dove deeper

15:04

into his restrictions around

15:07

later in pregnancy. So yes , looking

15:09

at restrictions that are 20 weeks, my two

15:11

weeks, 24 weeks have get

15:13

had been getting much more attention.

15:15

They definitely didn't 2019 they anticipate

15:18

them getting more attention in 2020

15:21

I think there's lots of debate over over

15:25

why , again, we're coming back to this reason why

15:27

someone would get an abortion that late in

15:29

pregnancy and there's actually lots of reasons

15:31

why one, yeah. One is

15:33

that there are already so

15:36

many restrictions in their state that it makes it that

15:38

much more difficult for them to get

15:40

an abortion so that delays the process. Or

15:42

two , they have new information that they did not know

15:45

prior. So if you were in

15:47

a state that has a 24 or 48

15:49

hour waiting period, then you have to figure

15:51

out how to take off time off work

15:54

to meet those multiple appointments

15:56

and that might delay your , your

15:58

ability to get an abortion earlier in pregnancy.

16:01

If you're trying to save money, you're trying to save money

16:03

and which with every week that

16:05

you, that your pregnancy continues,

16:08

the cost goes up astronomically.

16:10

So with each additional weekend , every additional

16:12

barrier that a patient has

16:14

to pass to jump through, that's more money

16:16

that they then have to figure out how to access

16:19

in order to get their care. So that's

16:21

one reason why someone to get to a clinic

16:23

and to get to a clinic, right? You're assuming

16:25

that someone even has

16:28

the transportation that they need to

16:30

get to like get to a health clinic. But

16:33

if your closest clinic is a

16:36

hundred miles 150 miles, 200 miles, you

16:38

need to have access to a car for quite

16:41

a period of time in order to even

16:43

get in the door and lucky if you only

16:45

have to make that trip once. Yes, exactly.

16:47

So there's all these additional restrictions

16:50

compounded in a number of States that

16:52

might delay a person's ability to get abortion

16:55

earlier in pregnancy. And then the second

16:57

is that you have new information that maybe you

16:59

didn't, you didn't know before. So

17:02

what if someone loses their job

17:05

or finds out that they are, you know, they get new information

17:07

that shows they are not as financially stable

17:09

as they thought they would be in order to, you

17:12

know, be able to support, support

17:14

their child. That might change their decision

17:16

because that's new information. What

17:19

if you are going into it thinking that

17:21

you have family support or you have

17:23

an additional support system or structure

17:26

and at some point throughout your pregnancy that

17:28

is no longer an option for you. That is new

17:30

information that a person might consider

17:33

and need an abortion later on in their pregnancy.

17:37

We often will see the

17:39

diagnosis of fetal anomalies later on in

17:41

pregnancy and that is new information

17:43

that might impact a patient's

17:45

ability to get an abortion early in pregnancy.

17:47

So there's tons of reasons. The

17:49

percentage of folks who get an abortion

17:52

later in pregnancy is pretty small, but

17:55

still there's tons of reasons as to why

17:57

that care is necessary and needed. And

18:00

I think also worth just like putting

18:02

a pin in when we're thinking of state

18:05

trends. Ones

18:07

that have been going but

18:09

have kind of maybe paused a

18:11

little bit is the trap

18:13

laws, so targeted regulation of abortion

18:15

providers, and by the time

18:18

you're hearing this, the Supreme court case,

18:21

June medical services VMG will

18:23

have been argued and

18:26

there is a real possibility

18:29

that with the change in the makeup of

18:31

the Corps , they could make a really bad

18:33

ruling and you could see a huge uptick

18:36

and new sets

18:39

of trap laws. Yes,

18:41

definitely. I mean the upcoming Supreme

18:44

court case that we're going to hear

18:46

arguments and early March, I believe

18:48

March 4th and have a foul decision at some point

18:50

in June. We'll have serious

18:53

consequences on folks

18:55

ability to access care, particularly

18:58

in States or parts of the country where there aren't that

19:00

many clinics to begin with. Adding an

19:02

additional restrictions on physicians,

19:05

access to provide care is

19:07

quite frankly going to harm those most who

19:09

are poor, who are

19:12

undocumented, who are in rural parts of

19:14

the country. Those are the folks who

19:16

are going to be targeted the most because they're the ones

19:18

who are going to have to travel even further and jump through

19:20

even more barriers. So

19:22

we just released our 50

19:24

state report card so you can see

19:26

like the States that are failing and they're

19:29

all together, right? So it's

19:31

not like even thinking,

19:33

okay, you won't have to go. You can just go

19:35

to the next state. Like if your

19:38

state has one clinic and the state next to you has

19:40

one clinic, all of a sudden

19:42

you have nowhere to go. Yeah, I mean

19:44

these are real barriers and as

19:46

the Supreme court had ruled before,

19:49

a real undue burden on people trying

19:51

to access care. So

19:53

it's, it's scary to think that,

19:57

you know, people often frame it around

20:00

row and like row will still be the

20:02

law of the land, but if you can't

20:04

access your right does

20:06

, do you still have that right? Like it

20:09

doesn't matter at that point if you can't go

20:11

somewhere to , to use

20:13

it completely. And

20:15

for many people, row has

20:17

never been accessible to them. Right. They've never

20:20

had access to care depending upon

20:22

where they are in the U S and in

20:24

the type of access and barriers they're facing.

20:26

But particularly with , with what you mentioned,

20:29

the States that are extremely

20:31

limiting access to abortion that have

20:33

maybe one clinic per state that's also

20:35

having a compounding effect on neighboring

20:38

States. So you have patients from Georgia

20:40

who need now need to go to Florida and vice versa.

20:43

And that's really having an impact

20:45

on state's economic budget.

20:48

That's putting additional restraints on States

20:50

internal health care system that's putting additional

20:53

restraints on clinics in general

20:55

because you're, you now have to manage

20:58

the patients in your estate and you have to anticipate

21:00

folks coming from other States and

21:03

that's happening an impact as well. Okay.

21:06

I feel like maybe we've hit the bar

21:08

for doom and gloom, like maybe we should

21:11

turn to good things happened

21:13

last year. Yes , there were things has

21:16

trends. So let's talk about that.

21:18

Like for the first time in a long

21:20

time there were more positive things

21:23

passed , right? Yes. So in 2019

21:26

we saw, I believe 147

21:30

active legislation passed the state

21:32

level and almost all 50 States. So that

21:35

was three times the amount when

21:37

you compare it to restrictive bills that passed

21:39

and I , that's the highest it's been and

21:41

I'd say at least the past five or six

21:43

years, which is incredible. And that has actually been

21:46

a positive trend that we've seen the year before. There

21:48

also was a significant

21:51

increase in more proactive bills and restricted

21:53

ones. And so while

21:56

things are definitely not great in regards

21:58

to access to abortion, there are a number of

22:00

States that are not only pushing back against

22:02

the restrictive legislation that we're

22:04

seeing, but there are really fighting

22:07

to advance proactive legislation. So

22:09

we're seeing an increase in actually

22:11

why to expand a protective abortion access,

22:13

which is really exciting. We're seeing

22:16

a focus on anti shackling legislation,

22:18

so ensuring that pregnant folks

22:21

who are incarcerated are able

22:23

to have as much dignity as possible

22:25

while going through pregnancy and delivery.

22:28

And we're also seeing which has been widely reported,

22:31

thankfully an increase in

22:33

policies supporting maternal health outcomes. So we're

22:36

seeing increases in maternal

22:38

mortality review committees or commissions.

22:40

We're seeing an increase in access

22:42

to doulas for folks who are going through pregnancy

22:45

and other policies that are really uplifting

22:48

maternal health care . That's

22:50

so exciting. It's just so

22:52

nice to see States pushing

22:54

back and doing good things. I

22:57

think another one that we

22:59

were seeing that was exciting is expanding

23:01

who can provide abortion care. A

23:04

number of States passed that to ensure

23:06

that it is as accessible as possible.

23:10

Yes. So we're seeing particularly

23:12

an increase in who's able to provide

23:15

care that's making it more accessible

23:17

and States and for patients who again

23:20

might have limited health clinics, might not have

23:22

the capacity or ability to

23:25

dry far or don't have access to public public transportation.

23:28

And so particularly with an increase in

23:30

technology and more access to telemedicine,

23:33

we're also saying that expansive process

23:35

of being able to increase

23:37

who's able to access care for patients. And

23:40

then the other one and we just saw a big slew

23:42

of a pass uh , recently

23:44

cause just got rid of a

23:45

bunch of their harmful

23:48

restrictions. And you're seeing other States

23:50

for appealing some of their harmful restrictions

23:53

they had. They had previously passed. Yeah.

23:56

So we definitely see a number of States rolling

23:58

back harmful restrictions and really

24:00

pushing back against bad restrictions

24:02

that I have. You know, coming from 2019

24:05

and pushing in 2020, in

24:07

fact recently Colorado voted

24:10

down their quote unquote born or live

24:12

bill and merge directed a ban on abortion

24:14

later in pregnancy. So we definitely are seeing

24:16

States across the country continue to fight back.

24:19

It's exciting cause I just feel like so long

24:22

we've just been so focused on just

24:25

this room lent lists , loss

24:28

at the state level, right. It was always

24:31

all of these new restrictions and you weren't

24:33

seeing the same like not

24:36

energy cause there was definitely energy on

24:38

fighting back against them but you weren't being able

24:40

to see as much success of

24:43

good law passing

24:46

to protect access or

24:48

to expand maternal health

24:51

care . And it's been heartening

24:53

to finally not just maybe

24:55

block bad things but to see good things happen.

24:59

Yeah, I mean the infrastructure

25:01

for state organizations and state coalitions

25:03

to fight back has been building and booming

25:06

over the past several years or decades even.

25:09

And the work has always been happening.

25:11

State organizations and coalitions have always

25:13

been resisting and fighting back.

25:15

And I think now we're starting to see the fruits of

25:17

their labor, which is incredibly exciting.

25:20

Yes. And it's nice because you

25:23

know, I think you would

25:25

always hear about like a couple of the really

25:27

bad States doing things. But now

25:29

I think you're starting to hear

25:32

more about what's being done at the state level

25:34

everywhere. And not just

25:36

maybe this really bad thing

25:38

happened here or this one state

25:41

did a good thing. You're

25:43

really starting to see it

25:46

breakthrough when States are doing things either way

25:48

and not just like, you know, everybody

25:51

knew about like when Texas had like its big

25:53

slew of things and but other States

25:55

were doing bad things but it never broke through and

25:58

now I feel like it's

26:00

all breaking through, which is exciting.

26:02

Yeah. I think definitely a shift

26:05

that we're seeing in the past couple of years is

26:08

abortion access and reproductive health

26:10

in general is becoming an

26:12

issue that all of us are finally

26:14

coming to a moment where we have to talk about, we have to deal

26:17

with it. We have to figure out what

26:19

part of the issue we're willing

26:21

to fight and defend. And

26:23

it's exciting to see so many folks

26:25

from the, our presidential candidates

26:27

all the way to state legislatures, really talking

26:30

to defending why for them

26:32

supporting abortion care and supporting access

26:34

to effective care is a core part

26:36

of why they're policymakers or why they're activists

26:39

or why, you know, they choose to

26:41

to be advocates in their community.

26:43

So you've talked about there's a lot happening in the States

26:46

and a lot of great groups working at the

26:48

state level, so how can listeners

26:50

get involved? What can listeners do to fight back?

26:53

Yes, there's tons that folks can do. I think

26:55

the first thing I would recommend is

26:57

educating yourself on the layering

27:01

impacted abortion restrictions and other restrictions

27:03

have on people's lives. So we

27:05

talked a lot about how Roe

27:07

has never been the reality for hundreds

27:10

of thousands of people in this world and in the United

27:13

States. And so I would encourage folks to, to

27:15

read up on that. I would say radical

27:18

reproductive justice is a great book. I

27:20

would also recommend and divide

27:22

rights , phone of color, organizing for return to justice

27:25

as two really, really great primers

27:27

on the layering effects of

27:29

abortion restrictions and other restrictions on communities.

27:32

I definitely would love folks to support

27:35

their local abortion providers, their local

27:37

abortion funds in their clinics. The

27:39

amount of barriers

27:42

that folks have to go through from

27:44

legislative lead to protestors

27:47

is a huge feat for them to really

27:49

overcome it or to get the care they need. So

27:51

providing love and support to folks in your community

27:54

who are on the front lines. And I

27:56

believe by the time this podcast is out,

27:59

abortion provider appreciation day will

28:01

be around the corner. I want to say it's March

28:04

13th. Oh great. We'll make sure to

28:06

uh , have some activities for that. Yeah.

28:08

So encourage listeners too. Reach

28:11

out and support their local abortion provider

28:14

who is going through, Ugh

28:16

, just so much stigma, so much. They're putting

28:18

their lives on the line. Really they have to go

28:20

through for them and their family's safety

28:23

just in order to do the work that matters

28:25

most of them, and being able to provide the care

28:28

that they know their patients need.

28:30

So those are some recommendations I have. Sophia,

28:33

thank you so much. Those are all great. Those

28:37

are all great recommendations, not reservation

28:39

.

28:41

Um, thank you for doing this and it has been great

28:43

talking to you. Yes, thank you for having me.

28:46

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28:49

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28:51

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