0:01

Welcome to Required Listening. I'm Scott

0:03

Goldman, the executive director of the Grammy

0:06

Museum. Each week

0:08

in the Clive Davis Theater, I have the privilege

0:11

of talking to great artists about

0:13

their careers, their inspirations,

0:15

what motivates them to make great

0:17

music. And that's what we're bringing

0:20

you on Required Listening.

0:25

On today's show, if you happen to

0:27

be anywhere near a radio last

0:30

summer, you could not avoid the

0:32

song Desposito, The

0:34

Luis Fons Daddy Yankee Justin Bieber

0:37

smash would top the Billboard

0:39

Hot one and ultimately secure

0:41

a Grammy nomination for Song of the Year.

0:44

Now, what goes into making a great

0:46

song like Desposito? Now you probably

0:48

know it when you hear it, but

0:50

what's the process? On today's

0:52

show, I'll talk to Erica Ender,

0:55

a co writer on Desposito and one of the

0:57

most prolific songwriters composing

0:59

in the Latin market today.

1:02

Born in Panama to a Panamanian

1:04

American father and Brazilian

1:06

mother, she grew up in a multicultural

1:09

and get this trilingual

1:12

home. Certainly an advantage when

1:14

you're writing songs in Spanish, Portuguese and English,

1:17

and as a singer in her own right. She's

1:19

released five albums, and her musical

1:22

versatility, her ability to go

1:24

between cultures and languages has

1:26

made it possible for such stars

1:28

as Daddy Yankee, Luis Fonsee, Gloria

1:30

Trevi, Cheyenne, and many others to

1:33

interpret her songs. Now,

1:35

this is a special episode in that Erica

1:38

and I sat down during Grammy

1:40

Week, in fact, just a couple of days before the

1:42

Grammy telecast, so you can imagine

1:44

the excitement that she was experiencing

1:47

being a Song of the Year nominee.

1:50

So let's listen to my conversation with

1:52

Erica Ender. Okay,

1:57

well, we're here at the YouTube Space in

2:00

New York ahead of the sixtieth

2:02

Annual Grammy Awards, and

2:04

I'm so pleased to be with

2:07

Song of the Year nominee.

2:11

Er Thank you, thank you so much for

2:15

it's my pleasure. And um,

2:18

what do you what do you think when you hear someone say

2:20

song of the Year nominee? Amazing

2:23

that dreams do come true. You

2:25

know, I came here twenty years ago from

2:27

Panama. I grew up in a very musical

2:29

family and a very a multicultural

2:32

family. Let's say it like that, full

2:34

of music, and my dream was to be

2:37

an artist, an international artist, and

2:39

it's a songwriter as well a composer, and

2:42

I came in with my dreams, you know, and

2:44

now being able to do this crossover

2:47

as a songwriter in Spanish is

2:49

even more incredible that whatever

2:51

I dreamt about. So it's it's a confirmation

2:54

that dreams do come true and that you

2:56

have to do your best throughout the

2:58

whole path in order to you

3:00

know, have this rewardings

3:02

from from heaven because I see it like that well,

3:05

and it certainly didn't happen overnight.

3:08

You know, this is the result of lots of hard

3:10

work years five years,

3:13

Um, tell me, because because

3:15

I want to talk about the song and then we'll talk about

3:17

you know, your career and the other things that you're doing. But

3:20

tell me when you first met Louise Fonsei. How

3:22

long have you known that? At least ten years.

3:24

We've been friends for a long time. He has

3:27

recorded songs that we have written together,

3:29

and we have a great relationship. I

3:31

love him uh so much and his

3:34

wife and the whole family. He's

3:36

a he's a gentleman, he's an amazing

3:38

warrior, and he's super talented. Tell

3:41

me, tell me what that means to you? What does warrior means

3:43

you? He's a warrior because he knows what he wants and

3:45

he fights for it. And he had been a long

3:48

long time as well, So this is a big reward

3:50

for him too, for his whole career.

3:52

He has had, I mean a

3:54

lot of achievements throughout his career.

3:57

But this song opened the world to all of us. So

4:00

deserved it and really it's remarkable.

4:03

And I want to ask you about this that that you

4:05

know here we have a song in Spanish,

4:08

huge smash

4:11

on the radio, now

4:13

nominated for a Grammy

4:15

Award. Isn't your sense that that Latin

4:18

music is uh, there's

4:21

more acceptance of Latin music

4:23

in the main, So I think so, and I'm

4:25

so happy to see that. Um, I

4:27

can't we can't get all the credit because

4:29

before us, there are several things that happened.

4:32

Gloria Estefan, for example, she's Latin and she did

4:34

an amazing job with Latin rhythms and everything.

4:36

Ricky Martin as well Macarenna

4:39

made it throughout the world as well.

4:41

But the difference between Gloria and

4:43

Ricky and Shakira is that usually

4:46

we Latin people. We

4:48

were looking for the crossover, but always,

4:51

you know, writing in in English. That

4:53

was the main goal, to write in English, something

4:55

that would work, And in this case the

4:57

song is in Spanish, and it broke every

5:00

single record. It's been the longest

5:02

number one, tied up with Maria Harris

5:04

One Sweet Day on Billboard. Yeah,

5:07

the Hunt one hundred and everything that happened

5:09

in Spanish. I think that it has something

5:11

special that did open a door. We're

5:14

now in a different world. We have everything in

5:16

the palm of our hands, and we can listen to whatever

5:18

we want in any language we want. So I

5:20

think it's amazing that finally the

5:22

mainscreen opened with the Spasito

5:25

and now, for example, Louis once singing another song

5:27

in Spanish with them Milato. So I think

5:29

it's amazing. And I think that we're in

5:31

a world that should have less boundaries,

5:34

you know, and that should share

5:36

more art and more love. And I am

5:38

really happy to be part of this moment. Well, it

5:40

certainly, I mean, it certainly speaks to making

5:43

connections among people that I that

5:45

I don't think existed before. But

5:47

I want to talk about the writing of the song because

5:50

I think I think Fancy had

5:52

an idea, the initial idea.

5:55

Yeah, well, well, tell tell me about that. I went to his

5:57

house. I was living in l A back in the time.

5:59

It was two years ago, September fifteen, two

6:01

thousand fifteen. We know the date, September

6:04

fifteen, two fifteen. I remember

6:06

because we did as a Facebook life at

6:09

that moment. We were so happy while doing the song

6:11

that I was like, oh my god, we have to put something. And

6:14

then we did this Facebook life saying

6:16

we got a hit here. But we never thought

6:18

that this would become the snowball,

6:20

the endless snowball that it became.

6:23

So uh. We started just you

6:25

know, looking for ideas and things. I brought him

6:27

some tracks that I had and then

6:29

he goes like, you know what, none of

6:31

this is, you know, getting my attention

6:34

as as much as this idea

6:36

that I had this morning. And he sings to

6:39

me this bas cito that he brought

6:41

that and he tells me almost

6:43

in Puerto Rico, and I answered,

6:49

you don't know what that means. Strikans

6:51

do. So the thing

6:53

is that we started laughing out of it, and he

6:55

had an idea of what he wanted for the

6:57

chorus, but we changed some notes as

7:00

it was too low, uh and a different

7:02

phrasing, but at least I mean it was the

7:04

perfect material for us to

7:06

write a hit out of that, and I thought it was genius.

7:09

To this past seat. I thought it was genius.

7:12

So then out of that we started doing

7:14

everything from scratch, looking for the whole concept,

7:17

trying to do something that would take him out of

7:19

his comfort zone. I mean,

7:21

people, how do you do from the audience

7:23

from the audience angle, because he used

7:25

to be a pop singer, a ballad singer, and

7:27

this would take him out of that,

7:30

looking for some urban fusions, which

7:33

is what's going on right now, so but

7:36

keeping his essence, you know. And

7:38

he's such a bristodile

7:41

artist, so I think that it was perfect

7:43

for him. He dances, he thinks whatever you

7:45

can give him, whatever he wants

7:47

to to express. And um,

7:49

I think it was an amazing job with it together

7:52

with a guitar at his home studio,

7:55

in a very organic

7:57

way, um, not thinking

7:59

of what what was the outcome, just

8:02

thinking of putting the best we

8:04

could in something where we were having

8:06

fun and being as responsible as possible

8:08

as well, because this kind of genre

8:11

could be very aggressive with women,

8:13

and he's a very smart guy. He usually writes

8:16

with women, so he can have that angle.

8:22

Well, I want to talk about that because,

8:25

um, you know, the song is an interesting

8:27

mix of fancies, you

8:30

know, sort of pop influence, and

8:32

then later we we bring daddy yankee

8:34

and reggae into it, and

8:36

those are both And please don't take this the

8:39

wrong way there. These are male oriented

8:42

perspectives and I'm wondering, you

8:44

know, how did you bring

8:47

or make sure that the female perspective was

8:50

being careful with the lyrics. There's

8:53

poetry there, there's elegance, there's

8:56

there's a very classy way

8:58

of saying things that could right away

9:00

with people. But at the same time, it

9:03

has art. It is a song that has

9:05

art and that could fit any genre.

9:08

I sing it in a very acoustic way as you saw

9:10

me, and it's from the heart and

9:12

you can, you know, fall in love with it or you can

9:15

dance with it or whatever you want

9:17

to do with it, because it it has that

9:20

the whole thing that makes

9:22

a song special to go throughout the

9:24

world. And we didn't know that the moment we were

9:26

doing it. We had no idea what happened there.

9:29

But grateful, Yeah, but you guys,

9:31

you had a sense you had written a hit. Yeah,

9:33

because you feel it. You feel it on your skin when

9:35

you're doing but normally when you get together,

9:37

you feel like you're doing it unless

9:40

you know the music is not as it's

9:42

not flowing as you were respecting normally.

9:45

I mean, when you have this much time

9:47

on this career, you know, when you have a hint in

9:49

your hands, but you never know how how

9:52

high it's gonna fly. I mean, we did

9:54

get a completely different perspective on the song

9:56

in your performance here today, A

9:59

beautiful old Yeah, it gives

10:01

you know, kind of a different lens

10:04

on the emotion exactly of

10:06

the song when you go out in your

10:08

own performances, is that how you'll perform

10:10

the song normally? I do it like that? Yeah, it

10:13

doesn't like a singer song writer

10:16

you know perspective? Right? Does Does it connect

10:18

more for you singing

10:20

it that way rather than it's the way I felt

10:22

it, you know? And I didn't want

10:25

to do the same thing. And I was releasing a CD

10:27

as well, Singer Songwriter CD

10:29

that that was recently nominated for the

10:31

Letting Grammys, and this past year two thousand

10:33

and seventeen, and uh, I decided

10:35

to record the song because my fans were

10:38

asking me too. Normally, when I write for another

10:40

artist, I just let them, you know, have

10:42

their space, and whenever time

10:45

goes by, I sing the songs that I

10:47

wrote for them or with them in

10:49

my concerts or in in a CD. But

10:51

like two or three years after, you

10:53

know, and this time was different

10:56

because everyone decided to record

10:58

this pass. And then my friends were

11:00

like, are you gonna record it or not? And

11:02

and since I sang it, and I

11:04

uploaded a Facebook life as well, singing it

11:07

life, it became viral and they

11:09

became like, okay, are you gonna do it

11:11

or not? So I decided to put it as a bonus strike.

11:14

But it's the way I felt it, and with

11:16

a very acoustic way of saying

11:18

things, because I really wanted people to focus

11:20

on the message, not on whatever

11:22

it was going. You know, around there's too much

11:24

noise nowadays. So you've

11:26

done all manner of co writing with

11:28

with all kinds of artists, not just Louis

11:31

Fonsi. And there's an art clearly

11:33

as you've described it. There's an art to working

11:36

with another artist to achieve

11:38

an artistic goal. And I'm

11:40

wondering, what is it. What do you think it is

11:42

about you that makes you

11:44

a good collaborator. I

11:46

think that art is made for

11:48

sharing, not for competing. Whenever

11:51

you sit down looking for the

11:53

best thing for the song, it's like having a

11:55

marriage. Whenever you get married,

11:57

you're looking for the best thing for your family, for your

12:00

baby, you know. To me,

12:02

a song is a baby, and I have to take care

12:04

of it, and whomever I'm working with

12:07

has to have that same frequency,

12:09

you know. So we're doing the best thing

12:11

we can in order for that baby to shine.

12:14

So I don't write with ego involved.

12:17

I write with my heart and I have no filters

12:19

between my heart and my hands. Whatever I'm writing

12:21

a song, that's great, that's great. So

12:24

the song, you know, Desposito

12:27

recorded kind of had a little

12:29

life of its own. And then along comes Daddy

12:31

Yankee. Well Daddy Yankee, yeah, well

12:34

yeah, Pony has that all that credit

12:36

after we finished the song with the guitar and

12:38

everything. I mean, he's as as I

12:41

was telling you, he's a warrior, and he's a guy

12:43

that is very smart, very clever. He knows

12:45

what he likes and he knows what he wants and

12:47

he was the one who decided to work with the

12:49

producers the way he wanted the song.

12:52

And then he decided to call Daddy Yankee, which

12:55

I mean his collaboration was genius as

12:57

well. He did the rap and the pass the

13:00

us, which is genius as well. And

13:02

then um, like three or four

13:04

months went by and suddenly one day

13:06

he calls me Erica. Justin Bieber

13:08

wants to record a remix of the song.

13:11

I don't nowhere, and we already had the

13:13

Portuguese version ready

13:16

and the English version written. We

13:18

were looking for collaborations in the Anglo

13:21

market. Universal was looking for the

13:23

collaborations. I think they had like two

13:25

artists in mine. And suddenly Justin

13:27

Bieber pops in. So he

13:30

tells me what do you think. I'm like, are you crazy?

13:32

And go ahead? I mean, if you're happy with it, and

13:34

more than happy with it. And when he tells me he's

13:36

going to record it mainly in Spanish, I

13:38

was like, oh my god, that's

13:40

such a blessing because it's going to be a crossover

13:42

where letting music gets to

13:45

be in the place it deserves. That we

13:48

felt that was a big, big moment to make

13:50

sure that that he sung it in Spanish, so I'm wondering

13:52

did he ask did he ask for your advice on

13:55

the spani Justin? No, no, no,

13:57

I haven't met him. Can you believe you haven't met him?

13:59

No? No, not yet

14:03

right right, right now

14:05

we're working together the same song. We haven't

14:08

met yet. So when you when

14:10

you finally heard the track with with Justin

14:12

on it, Yeah, I loved it first thought. I thought.

14:15

I thought that whatever they added

14:17

was amazing because it was kind of like a

14:20

an intro for people to understand

14:23

what was going on with the rhythm and everything, and they

14:25

took him to the to the Latin part.

14:28

I think his pronunciation was pretty

14:30

good. He did an amazing job. He didn't

14:33

have that our sound that normally the

14:35

strong sound that. Yeah,

14:38

he did an amazing job, an amazing job,

14:40

and I think it was everything flowed,

14:43

you know. I mean, the results are remarkable,

14:45

so worldwide radio smash, which

14:47

makes me think, and I'm interested

14:49

in, when was the first time you

14:52

heard a song of yours on the radio?

14:54

Oh? My god? Well, in Panama

14:56

when I was really young. I

14:59

was like sixty ten years old when I recorded

15:01

my first CD, so in Panama, but

15:03

I mean in a bigger picture.

15:07

The first thing was an English version

15:09

that I wrote for a smash hit called

15:11

a written by a mad which

15:13

is Pana Minion as well. So by four recorded

15:15

that and they sang it at the Crammys

15:18

as well and everything. So that was the first

15:20

time, right when I came to the US, like

15:22

almost two years after I got here. And

15:25

then Candela, which was of my own inspiration,

15:27

collaborating with another composer.

15:30

That was a song that led me by house

15:33

car everything. I live out of music, you

15:35

know, start living out of music, because as

15:37

I told you, I came from Panama where the platform

15:39

is pretty different. It was it was hard to opportunity

15:42

to find your foot international. Yeah, and

15:49

you've talked about the challenges of

15:52

you know, being a young songwriter,

15:55

young female songwriter. Still

15:59

still we'll talk about let's talk

16:01

about that and being and being taken seriously.

16:04

Yeah, well taken seriously. I think that that's

16:06

a matter of your attitude. And I always,

16:09

um try to be as ry no

16:11

I am, as as responsible as possible,

16:13

as professional as possible. I try

16:16

to, you know, be as a happy

16:18

person at the same time a very social

16:21

person. But whenever it's got to do

16:23

with work. I deliver. I always

16:25

deliver. But when I came to the US

16:27

at the beginning, when I was knocking doors,

16:30

I was twenty two years old, so

16:33

pretty young a girl. Uh,

16:36

there were no women in this industry

16:39

and the Latin music. I mean there have been several,

16:41

but in certain moments of time, it's

16:43

not like, oh, we're the song the female

16:45

song writers, you

16:48

wouldn't find that. Right after that

16:50

came Claudia Brand who's has made an amazing

16:52

career as well. But we

16:54

were like two or three. I mean that

16:57

we're, you know, like knocking doors around.

16:59

So I started sending songs

17:01

for male singers to the

17:04

A and R departments of the

17:06

label record labels. Uh, they

17:08

would call me to say, you know it's beautiful,

17:10

but it's too feminine. I was singing

17:12

the demos and I was sending Erica Ander

17:15

and the demos. So whenever

17:18

you really know what your mission is

17:20

about, I mean I knew that I was made

17:22

for this, and I would look different

17:24

ways of getting there. So I just

17:26

decided to go to a different record

17:28

label, asked for a male singer

17:31

to sing the songs, and I send it like

17:33

the ender. Ah okay,

17:35

suddenly the song started to get

17:38

a placement. So then

17:40

I understood. I didn't take it in a bad way,

17:42

because I do believe that anyway. I

17:44

mean, it's a it's a men market.

17:47

But at the same time, I owe a lot to

17:49

a lot of men, you know. So I

17:51

didn't see it as a feminist. I

17:54

saw it like lack of vision. The

17:56

industry wasn't ready

17:58

for women to take those places.

18:01

And I said, you know what, I'm going to deliver. I'm

18:03

going to deliver, and my talent and my work

18:05

is the one that is going to open the doors. And as

18:08

you see, that's what happened for sure.

18:11

So you have a whole solo careers,

18:13

as you mentioned, released a

18:16

record and the name of the record tattoos.

18:21

Yes, but we were mentioned just before we started,

18:24

you were talking about these are you know, kind of

18:26

the tattoo, the the the

18:28

the internal tattoos, that one that

18:30

one acquires throughout over

18:33

time. Um, as you look

18:35

back now and you're writing songs based

18:37

on, you know, kind of experience and wisdom

18:39

to a certain degree, have you have

18:42

you changed as a songwriter. Well,

18:45

I think we all change as human, as

18:47

humans and as professionals. But the essence

18:50

remains the same. I'm the same

18:52

child, the same little kiddo that

18:54

is always you know, connected with the universe

18:57

and seeing wonders and everything. You

18:59

know, like the kids used to have a lot of imagination

19:02

and we the adults, are the other one

19:04

that are cutting them off. So

19:07

I decided that I wanted to always be that

19:10

little girl. I mean, using

19:12

every skill that life's gives me,

19:15

understanding from the experiences, and

19:17

of course getting you know, bigger

19:19

in certain ways. But

19:22

at the same time, I just wanted to keep

19:24

that girl. So I forgot

19:26

what you asked me changing

19:29

as a song, Yeah, well I've changed,

19:31

for sure, But the essence is the same. The essence

19:33

is that in a child, the essence is trying

19:36

to understand and connect with

19:38

other people's hearts, trying to always

19:40

find the way of writing my own

19:43

soundtrack but other people's soundtrack,

19:45

and understanding the responsibility I have in

19:47

my hands. Because you don't get a talent

19:49

to get millionaire and or you know,

19:51

to look for fame. There's a purpose,

19:53

a major purpose, and you have to find

19:56

it throughout your life. One day,

19:58

through experiences, through what ever happens,

20:01

you get to understand that you're here not for

20:03

yourself but for others at the same time, and

20:05

that music is for everyone. You

20:07

know. I had what you're saying. It resonates

20:10

in that I had a fascinating conversation

20:13

a couple of weeks ago with a guy named

20:15

Jimmy Ivene. Jimmy Ivene produced

20:17

and engineered records with John Lennon

20:19

and Patti Smith Um and Bruce

20:21

Springsteen and went on to found Interscope

20:24

Records. I mean, this guy is one of the most successful

20:26

people in music, and we were talking about

20:28

his career and he said the one thing he

20:31

kept in mind, and this blew me away, The one thing

20:33

he's kept in mind the entire time is

20:35

he wants to be of service. Of

20:38

service to the people that

20:40

he was working within, the studio, of service

20:42

to the artists on his label, to his business

20:45

partners. UM. I found

20:47

that just fascinating. You

20:49

need that. The more I always say

20:51

to my people, the more I travel, the more I

20:53

meet people, the more I get to

20:55

write because you get to see more stories,

20:58

more more ways of thinking. Whenever

21:00

you go from here to I don't know, Asia

21:03

or Europe, you get to understand that the essence

21:05

is just the same. We're all the same.

21:08

It just changes the angle,

21:10

the way of saying things. You have the same

21:12

tongue speaking in another language, the same body dancing

21:15

another rhythm. You know, the same food

21:17

prepared in a different way. And at the end, we're

21:19

all the same, you know. So it's amazing

21:22

to understand how people being

21:25

the same kind of think in a different way. And

21:27

whenever you get to understand

21:29

that and the codify, you

21:31

know, the way of expressing

21:34

whatever your art, you get to connect

21:36

with people. But whenever you get to understand

21:39

that, and besides that, beyond

21:41

that you understand that the essence is

21:43

the same, then you get to connect with the world.

21:45

So tell me, speaking of the little girl, who

21:48

were your musical heroes growing up? Who

21:50

did you hear? So many

21:53

people? You have no idea? We could,

21:55

you could, We could say names the whole day

21:58

here. Because my dad was half a man can

22:00

have Panamanian. So he used to listen to netting

22:02

called Richard Chamberlain. Francin Natra

22:04

was his favorite, for example, And then I

22:06

used to listen to everything that had to do with Mexico,

22:08

per Rico, my ange salza jazz,

22:11

smooth jazz from my mom's side, She's

22:13

Brazilian, so I imagine both a nova,

22:16

samba everything. So there was a big

22:19

mix that I am really

22:21

grateful for because it

22:23

all stood right here in the back of my mind.

22:26

And that's why nowadays the professional

22:28

you know, gets that benefit because

22:30

I get to go from Spanish to Portuguese

22:33

to English or from one genre

22:35

to another without a problem. And

22:38

it has to do with my upbringing. So

22:40

I had a lot of people that I liked, like, for

22:42

example, on the on the Brazilian side,

22:45

I used to listen to Catanlozoo,

22:48

you know, to Antonio Candlojo being and

22:50

then Francinata on my dad's side, and

22:53

from Lofonos to whatever with the

22:55

Houston Michael Jackson. I think they were amazing.

22:57

There were one of my favorite

22:59

artist ever. I admired so much

23:02

glory for what she did, you

23:04

know, and and all of that, and

23:06

all of that finds

23:10

I'm not from one side. I'm like ipen

23:13

To all the way,

23:15

all the way up to Song of

23:17

the Year nominee at the sixty Grammy

23:19

Awards, Erica, thank you so much for

23:22

coming and talking with us. Songwriters

23:28

must have a sixth sense and I

23:30

love the fact that she and Fancy knew

23:32

pretty quickly that they were writing a hit.

23:35

It's remarkable how when you speak

23:37

to songwriters it seems the best songs

23:39

come so quickly. And

23:42

I would encourage you to check out Erica as

23:44

an artist in her own right. Her latest album

23:46

is called and

23:49

you'll find her remarkable acoustic

23:51

version of Desposito, which completely

23:54

turns the song on its head. I encourage

23:57

you to find that and give it a listen. And

24:02

that's your required listening for today. As

24:04

always, let's keep the conversation going on all

24:06

the social platforms at Grammy

24:08

Museum. If you plan to be in Los Angeles,

24:11

I hope you'll come visit us. All the

24:13

information about our exhibits, our programs,

24:15

and activities are at our website

24:17

Grammy Museum dot org. Finally,

24:20

thanks to the team that makes required listening

24:22

happen, Jason James, Jim Canella,

24:24

Lynn Sheried and Justin Joseph, Callie Weissman,

24:27

Miranda Moore, Jason Hope, Kitchen

24:29

Kerns Chandler Mays, Nick Stump,

24:32

and everyone at How Stuff

24:34

Works. Until next time, I'm

24:36

Scott Goldman