Our guest today is Susie Alegre. Susie is an international human rights lawyer and author. We're in conversation about her book, Freedom To Think: The Long Struggle to Liberate Our Minds (Atlantic Books, 2022). Susie talks about freedom of thought in the context of our digital age, human rights, surveillance capitalism, emotional AI, and AI ethics.

Susie explains why she wrote the book and why she thinks our freedom of thought is important in terms of our human rights in the digital age. We explore what freedom of thought is ("some people talk about it as mental privacy") and the difference between an absolute right and a qualified right, and why absolute rights are protected differently.

Susie shares some historical examples including witch trials as well as the work of Ewen Cameron, a Scottish psychiatrist in Canada, who experimented on ordinary people without their consent to explore ways to control the human mind. 

Facial recognition technology is a modern attempt to get inside our heads and predict such things as our sexual orientation. Susie explains why researchers shouldn’t be experimenting with facial recognition or emotional AI: you’re “effectively opening Pandora’s box”.

Susie explains the difference between surveillance advertising, which uses data captured about our inner lives that is sold and auctioned on an open market, in order to manipulate us as individuals, and targeted advertising.

Over the past few years there’s been a great deal of focus on ethics and Susie suggests we need to move away from the discussion of ethics “back to the law, specifically human rights law”. She explains that human rights law is being constantly eroded, and says “one way of reducing the currency of human rights law is refocusing on ethics”. Ethics are simply a “good marketing tool” used by companies.

The inferences being made about us, the data profiling, the manipulation means it's practically impossible to avoid leaving traces of ourselves, it's beyond our personal control, and privacy settings don't help. In her book Susie suggests that by looking at digital rights (data and privacy protection) in terms of freedom of thought, "the solutions become simpler and more radical".

It’s a point that Mary Fitzgerald, in her review of Susie’s book in the Financial Times, suggested was a "unique contribution" to the debates about freedoms in the digital age, and that "reframing data privacy as our right to inner freedom of thought" might capture "the popular imagination" in a way that other initiatives like GDPR have failed to do. Susie explains for us how this approach would work.

Follow Susie on Twitter @susie_alegre, and check out her website susiealegre.com.

Read the full transcript. 

Read the conversation as a web article.

Watch the interview on our YouTube channel.