0:05

Welcome to the Productivity Podcast . Today

0:08

I'm delighted to have a returning

0:10

guest . We've got Craig Willis , who is CEO

0:12

at Score . Hi , craig .

0:14

Hi , simon , great to be back .

0:16

Yeah , welcome back . It's been a while since you

0:18

came on and

0:20

, with that in mind , it's probably pertinent

0:23

if you can give the listeners

0:25

a quick overview of what Score

0:27

is , in case they've not listened to that episode and they

0:29

want to go and find it , or in case it's

0:31

completely new .

0:33

Yeah , so Score is a process

0:35

improvement platform that organisations

0:38

use to build and

0:40

establish a process library

0:42

standardised processes and

0:44

then continuously improve off

0:47

the back of that . The focus

0:49

of Score is really about engaging

0:51

with people in the business , so

0:53

bringing the sort of human

0:55

centric aspect of processes , making

0:58

processes user-friendly , intuitive

1:01

, to use , easy to find

1:03

so that they support people

1:06

doing their jobs and , as I said , forming

1:08

a foundation for process improvement

1:10

for the whole organisation .

1:13

An online platform that you can share and collaborate

1:15

in .

1:17

Absolutely . I mean you can collaborate

1:20

with teams to document , create

1:22

new processes , analyse

1:24

those processes , as you say , share

1:27

and manage those and gather

1:29

feedback so that you , you know

1:32

, so that the teams can incrementally

1:34

or transformationally improve

1:37

the way the organisation works .

1:39

Good . So you know , it

1:41

goes without saying , you kind of know what we do . But process

1:44

, documentation of process , consistent

1:47

application of processor

1:49

the Holy Grail for

1:51

most organisations in whether that be retail

1:54

, office , manufacturing , supply

1:56

chain , whatever that might be

1:58

. So what kind of problems

2:01

are you seeing or

2:03

what kind of themes are you talking about

2:05

with your clients or potential clients

2:07

?

2:08

Well , exactly Everyone

2:10

we speak to is aiming to

2:12

standardise processes and

2:15

also train

2:17

people on those processes

2:19

or not just people , but nowadays obviously

2:21

machines and AI as well . But

2:24

the challenge that most organisations

2:26

seem to face is how

2:29

do they actually build , embed and

2:31

sustain that sort

2:33

of process improvement initiative

2:35

or process management initiatives for

2:37

the long term ? You

2:39

know they can . Often the build phase

2:42

is the one that sort of gets all of

2:44

the focus . That's when they go out

2:46

and figure out what the processes

2:48

are and , you know , go through that

2:50

exercise to document and standardise

2:52

them . But so often what happens is

2:55

things kind of stop at that point

2:57

and it becomes very , very difficult

2:59

to then keep those

3:01

processes up to date and continue

3:03

to build on them . And what a lot of organisations

3:06

end up doing is go through

3:08

the exercise of documenting all the processes

3:11

. They sit on the shelf to gather dust

3:13

and then the next time someone picks them up they're

3:16

so out of date that they've basically got to start

3:18

all over again . I'm guessing you will see

3:20

that

3:22

with your customers .

3:24

Yeah , so there'll be a programme

3:27

, a project that's kicked off , which is around

3:30

, like you say , documenting

3:32

all these processes , getting them all in one central

3:34

repository , etc . Etc . That

3:37

work happens certainly

3:39

in retail hospitality

3:42

. People move jobs very quickly

3:44

so that person may

3:46

move to another function . Therefore

3:48

they're defunct . They maybe

3:51

haven't got a way of sharing them or collaborating

3:53

, maybe it's in a tool where

3:55

you need a license and

3:57

an install on a local machine or

3:59

laptop . So again that gets

4:01

lost in the , the transition or translation

4:04

. And back to your point a couple

4:06

years later somebody else comes back around

4:08

and says oh , we've got to document the process and

4:11

to some degree repeat yeah

4:13

, and I mean it's not

4:15

like we're short of

4:18

online tools available

4:20

to share things .

4:21

I think the real problem

4:23

I see there's two sort of key problems

4:26

here . One is how do you engage

4:28

people on a sort of day-to-day

4:31

basis in keeping processes

4:33

up-to-date and , you know , improving

4:35

them , because processes kind

4:37

of aren't really that exciting

4:40

and they don't really change

4:43

massively or very quickly

4:45

. But the problem is is when you don't

4:47

keep them up-to-date regularly , then

4:50

obviously as time passes

4:52

, those changes do get quite bigger

4:54

, which is why you then end up having

4:56

to redo them . So I

4:58

see that as an engagement problem

5:01

. And then the other kind of key problem

5:03

I think we certainly often see with a

5:05

lot of our customers is creating

5:07

some sort of clear line of sight from

5:09

, you know , the board or the or the

5:11

exact leadership team , right down to

5:13

the sort of day-to-day tasks that

5:15

the staff are doing . And it

5:18

goes back to that thing that you know . That initial

5:20

exercise to document

5:22

, standardize the processes can

5:25

be quite exciting because it often requires

5:27

a significant investment of time and

5:29

money . But it's also where

5:31

some of the the biggest opportunities

5:33

for improvement get found . But

5:36

the challenge is , once you've kind of got over

5:38

that hump , you know

5:41

, continuous improvement is

5:43

often more preventative

5:45

, and so it

5:48

doesn't . It's not always as kind of exciting

5:50

. So you know , when you're measuring , say

5:53

, at a high level , the progress

5:55

of your process improvement activities

5:58

is often to do with , well , how many processes

6:00

have we documented and reviewed

6:02

? And once you sort of hit those targets , it

6:04

then becomes difficult to measure

6:07

what improvements you're making because , as

6:09

I said , if they're preventative you're

6:11

not necessarily seeing a An

6:13

improvement , but you're certainly avoiding major

6:16

problems , risks and costs in the future

6:18

. But it's not easy to see that .

6:21

Yeah , I think for those continuous improvement

6:23

departments , they're always under pressure

6:25

to justify their existence Exactly

6:27

. There's an easy cost

6:30

cutting to say , well , you know , we'll

6:32

streamline that department , we'll move

6:34

that department on , whatever it might be , and

6:37

you need that fact based . You know

6:39

, if you can cover the salary

6:41

as a minimum of that department each year

6:43

, then you justify your existence

6:45

. You should be clearly striving for more than

6:47

that . But if it's cost neutral , why wouldn't you

6:50

carry on ?

6:52

Yeah , exactly , and I think what you need

6:54

, or what teams need to be doing , is

6:56

measuring more . I

7:00

like to think of it is if you think about how

7:02

personal health

7:04

, if you want

7:06

to get healthier , you

7:09

don't just go for one run or

7:12

eat one salad , although

7:14

that's a good start , we

7:17

often find that we struggle to

7:20

again sustain that

7:22

type of positive behaviour that you

7:24

really need to make on

7:26

a long term . You know , traditionally

7:29

you'd be sort of trying

7:31

to go on your diet

7:33

and probably weighing yourself

7:35

on a dodgy old pair of scales

7:37

once a week or so , and

7:40

the challenge with that is that it's

7:42

really hard to see progress , so

7:45

it's really hard to see the

7:47

impact of those changes

7:49

that you're trying to make . It takes such a long

7:52

time to lose weight . If

7:54

that's the aim of you , know that you're trying to the

7:56

goal that you're trying to reach , because

7:59

nowadays it's much

8:01

, much easier , because we've got our smartphones

8:03

, we've got our fitness trackers

8:05

, so we tend to be

8:07

, when you're looking to get healthy , you tend

8:09

to be tracking the calories

8:12

that you're taking in , you're tracking the exercise

8:14

that you're doing , your truck , you're tracking your weight , you're

8:17

probably tracking sleep patterns

8:19

and heart rate and all

8:21

of those different things , and so you

8:23

can . You can immediately start

8:26

to see an impact just

8:28

in the data from . You

8:30

know the efforts that you're making , so you're

8:32

much more encouraged to take those positive

8:35

actions and to do them much

8:37

more regularly . You

8:39

know , to kind of to achieve those goals

8:41

.

8:43

Yeah , that makes sense and I think there's there's

8:45

also a bit , isn't there around where you focus your time

8:47

. So the scale

8:49

and the sensitivity of those processes if

8:51

you , if you , shave two minutes off

8:54

a process that takes five minutes only happens

8:56

once a year , yeah , that's

8:58

all well and cool , but actually if you save 10

9:00

seconds off a process that happens 30 million

9:02

times a year , you can see a much greater

9:05

reward and benefit .

9:08

Yeah , and that comes down to

9:10

analysis , doesn't it ? And ? But , yeah

9:12

, sometimes I think that's where , when

9:15

we measure processes today , we we

9:17

perhaps spend a bit too much time focused

9:19

on on the

9:22

KPIs and PPI

9:24

. So , the key performance indicators , or the

9:26

process performance indicators , where

9:29

we're looking at how people adhere

9:31

to a process or the

9:33

cost savings , is you

9:35

point out there if you're performing some

9:37

sort of analysis ? And they're all

9:39

really , really important ? Of course they are , but

9:41

to me they're almost a little

9:43

bit like the standing on the scales

9:45

once a week . In many ways , the

9:48

health tracker , the

9:50

personal health tracker , and the ability to see

9:53

all of that data now helps us understand

9:55

how all the different things we do influence

9:57

each other to be able to To

10:00

reach the goals , and so we see that

10:02

very much the same way with with

10:04

processes . So if you , if you , if you're

10:06

taking the time to To document

10:09

your processes yes , the

10:11

key performance indicator if you're looking

10:13

at the sales process , what's the contract

10:16

value or the number of opportunities closed

10:18

, those those are really key

10:20

. But if you , if you've invested

10:22

in documenting and standardizing

10:25

that process , you want to be able to sustain that

10:27

over the time , you've also got

10:29

to start looking at things like you

10:32

know how we have

10:34

we updated

10:36

that document recently . Have

10:38

as people ? Have people been using that

10:41

document ? Have we provided the

10:43

right type of information For

10:45

people , such as you know ? Is the process

10:48

owner clearly identified ? Is

10:50

the purpose of that process clearly

10:52

show ? You know , there's all

10:54

sorts of information that we

10:56

could be you can pull together

10:59

To be able to just

11:01

as you can with your personal fitness tracker

11:03

really get a feel for what's actually

11:06

happening with you with

11:08

that process documentation . And

11:10

how is that Impacting

11:12

on both the key performance indicators

11:14

and the process performance indicators

11:17

, process health

11:19

exactly , exactly

11:21

that .

11:23

So that kind of gets

11:26

me thinking about , if you think in

11:28

modern organizations

11:30

probably industry agnostic

11:32

almost we've got lots of

11:34

labor turn Pay

11:37

inflation . I think there's

11:39

, you know , stats that are bandied around around

11:41

more for every one person

11:43

that you employ . There's one

11:45

point for people that leave an organization

11:47

at scale . So this whole process

11:50

, health must play back

11:52

in then to onboarding New

11:55

colleagues and making sure you're training

11:57

them in the correct process rather than just inheriting

12:00

broken or interpretive

12:03

process at a local level .

12:05

Yeah , and that comes back to that sort of sustainability

12:08

of the of the documentation

12:11

, because the worst thing

12:13

that can happen is when those new people

12:15

come into the organization and Processes

12:18

are hard to find . If

12:20

they can find them there , they're out

12:22

of date . And what often happens

12:25

is that even if even

12:27

if they're not out of date , then overly

12:30

complicated or difficult

12:32

to read . And you know

12:34

, keeping engaging

12:37

people in this process

12:39

, creation and ongoing update

12:42

and improvement of the process is , yeah

12:45

, it's gotta be more interesting

12:47

than just here go and read this

12:50

, this documentation . So

12:52

you know that's what we look to . What

12:55

we aim to do is to

12:57

track all of those health metrics

12:59

the ones I mentioned before

13:02

as well as numerous other ones , and

13:04

so we can show to users

13:07

what the score of that process

13:10

or any individual process might

13:12

be . So you get this ability to them

13:14

sort of compare them . And if you think

13:16

about that again , going back

13:18

to the fitness tracking apps

13:20

, one of the things that's quite common is people

13:22

sharing those through social media saying , hey , look

13:24

, I did a 5k run earlier

13:26

or I went for the cycle ride and

13:29

you sort of you also have this kind of

13:31

sort of bit of pride of your involvement

13:33

in that and doing that , but also comparing

13:36

that to other people . So

13:39

that's a sort of key part to that

13:41

. Engaging people

13:43

is giving them that . So giving that data

13:45

, that health data of the process is to

13:47

everybody , so they're much more

13:49

aware of what happens . But

13:53

then the other problem that I mentioned

13:55

before , which is this ability

13:57

to have this kind of line of sight

14:00

from the leadership or exact

14:02

team right down to what's happening on on

14:04

a daily basis . I mean , this is exactly

14:06

the same challenge

14:08

. I was talking to a , a

14:11

CIO just last

14:13

week who said he said , craig , you know

14:15

the problem when we're in a board meeting and

14:19

somebody says you know what we need to do

14:21

, we need to go and figure out all

14:23

our processes and standardize them

14:25

as the first step . And he said everyone

14:27

always nods their heads but nobody

14:29

really knows how to actually go out and

14:32

do that . And so what we aim

14:34

to do with the health scores is

14:37

to basically take that low level

14:39

health score that we're looking at

14:41

on a process by process basis

14:43

and roll that up to

14:46

, you know , an executive

14:48

level , departmental level , whatever

14:50

that needs to be , so the different

14:53

senior execs can

14:55

start to look at well , how is my part of the organization

14:57

or my processes within my part of the organization

15:00

comparing against

15:02

others and then the ability to sort

15:04

of set targets for the whole group so

15:07

that you know , so that again

15:10

everyone can see how the whole organization

15:12

is performing and if there's a dip anywhere

15:14

, what do we need to do to go and bring that

15:16

back up again .

15:18

So engagement is a key part then , like

15:20

, say , kind of surfacing that information

15:22

to the execs so they can start

15:24

to see it , but also , then I

15:27

don't know , gamification . Is it so making

15:30

, like you said , sharing stuff on social

15:32

but also making it interactive

15:34

? Are there leaderboards , that kind of stuff that get people

15:36

excited ?

15:37

Exactly so . You know , as you get down through

15:40

the organization , different teams and

15:42

sort of management layers can

15:44

then sort of compare against each other how

15:47

they're doing . And we've certainly

15:49

seen this just

15:51

within our own team , different

15:53

groups getting together and posting on our internal

15:56

social networks and hey , look , here's

15:58

my score . And what we do is

16:00

we set a target for the

16:03

whole company and then different teams

16:05

are sort of trying to compete with each other to

16:07

hit or exceed that target

16:10

. And you straight away see the sort

16:12

of change in behavior . Because when someone

16:14

starts posting saying , hey , look at my score

16:16

, it's sort of

16:18

everyone else is like , oh wonder what mine is . And

16:20

they dive in and have a look at theirs . And then it's

16:22

like , well , what do I need to do to get my score

16:24

up ? And you know that

16:27

it goes back to those good behaviors . It's good

16:29

behaviors like well , you know , going

16:31

and looking at the process at the very least

16:33

, if you haven't looked at it for a while providing

16:35

some sort of feedback to show that

16:38

you've understood

16:40

it and that it's perhaps

16:43

changed . And then you know , right

16:45

through to the whole governance piece of actually

16:47

updating and publishing

16:49

new versions of the process , all

16:51

of those things help to push that score up , and

16:53

so you know we're doing

16:56

it for a bit of fun , but it's actually really

16:58

helping us keep the processes up to date

17:00

.

17:01

Yeah , I'm making sure that it's not just an expensive

17:03

documentation exercise , that

17:06

you then end up incurring

17:08

the same cost and maybe coming out

17:10

with , unfortunately , the same outcome X

17:12

or Y years later .

17:14

Exactly and avoid , as I said before

17:16

, so much of continuous process

17:18

. Improvement is about preventative

17:21

activity

17:23

and so making sure those things are

17:25

happening . And of course , it's

17:27

not just that right If you've got a

17:30

well documented set

17:32

of processes that are up to date , it's

17:34

also a brilliant foundation for transformation

17:37

. So if the organization

17:39

is going to go off in a different direction or

17:42

you want to access a new market

17:44

or introduce new products , that sort of thing

17:46

, you've got this amazing foundation

17:48

that's already very dynamic

17:50

and able to move

17:53

and bend and respond very

17:55

quickly to changes that the organization

17:57

faces Excellent , okay .

17:59

So just to summarize then and tell me if I've got it right , so

18:02

it gives us a good foundation to build on , as you've

18:04

said there . So the basis for that ongoing

18:06

process improvement . We

18:08

can start to get under the skin of process

18:10

health and understand those different

18:13

data points and bits of information

18:15

that give us that kind of health check that

18:17

then leads us into the whole engagement piece

18:19

with the exact team down to the colleagues

18:22

in the organization , with clear targets

18:25

but also that element of gamification

18:27

. So it becomes a bit more fun , a bit

18:29

more interactive . It's not just a and

18:32

I'll say it because people are probably thinking

18:34

it a boring , old process . It

18:36

comes to life a bit more and helps us keep

18:38

it alive . Exactly

18:40

that Perfect . So

18:43

if people are interested

18:45

in this and they think , yeah , been

18:47

there , done that . We're just doing another

18:49

mapping exercise that's going to get lost in the year through

18:52

time , or we've done one and people are talking about

18:54

doing another one and I'm worried we're going to

18:56

end up in the same place . Where's the best

18:58

place for them to get hold of you or

19:00

some of the score team ?

19:02

Well , come along to our website , which

19:04

is getscorecom , so

19:06

G-E-T-S-K-O-R-E

19:09

dot com . You've

19:11

got a choice , really . You can request

19:14

a conversation with

19:17

one of our experts who can

19:19

have a look at what you're doing today , look at your requirements

19:21

and see how the score platform and

19:23

its built in health capability

19:25

process health capabilities can help . But

19:28

we've also got some simple guides as well . So

19:30

if you just want to sort of look through and go well , what

19:32

are the sorts of things I should be tracking , what

19:34

structure should I be putting in place to

19:36

do this , then we've got that available to

19:38

download from our website as well .

19:41

Amazing and I'll put . We'll put the link to the website

19:43

in the show notes and we'll put the link to your LinkedIn

19:45

profile as well , if people just want to reach

19:48

out directly to you via LinkedIn for

19:50

a conversation . So

19:52

thanks . As ever , craig , always good to

19:54

speak and we'll catch up soon

19:56

.

19:57

Thank you very much .