0:01

Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society

0:03

Stories from the Trenches , where enablement

0:05

practitioners share their real-world experiences

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. Get the scoop on what's happening inside

0:11

Sales Enablement teams across the global

0:13

SES member community . Each

0:15

segment of Stories from the Trenches share the

0:17

good , the bad and the ugly

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practices of corporate sales . Enablement

0:22

initiatives learned what worked , what

0:24

didn't work and how obstacles were

0:26

eliminated by corporate teams and leadership

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. Get back , grab a cold one and join host

0:31

Paul Butterfield for casual conversations

0:33

about the wide and varied profession of

0:35

sales enablement , where there is never a fits

0:37

all solution .

0:39

Hello and welcome back to another episode

0:41

of the Sales Enablement Society Stories from the Trenches

0:43

. We are , as far as I know , the

0:45

only exclusive for

0:48

us by us format where we bring

0:50

on enablement professionals from all over the world

0:52

to talk about things that we're working on in common

0:54

. A lot of times we talk about the things

0:56

that people are doing that are really successful and

0:58

we can learn from . Sometimes we talk about things

1:00

that didn't go so well because they can be equally

1:03

educational . So I'm

1:05

excited to introduce today's guest . A lot of

1:07

you are probably familiar with him and may follow

1:09

him already . Felix Kruger is

1:11

our guest . Felix is the Chief

1:14

Enablement Officer and Founder of

1:16

FFWD , but where most

1:18

of us probably know him from is as

1:20

the long running host of the podcast State

1:22

of Sales Enablement . So , felix , welcome

1:24

, appreciate you being here .

1:26

Paul , thank you so much for having me . I've been a long

1:28

time listener of your podcast

1:30

and it's great to finally be involved .

1:32

All right , so you know the drill . Before

1:35

we get into the work stuff , we're

1:37

going to find out a little bit more about you . It's

1:40

the Jimmy Kimmel Challenge . So

1:42

Jimmy Kimmel's retiring . You've got

1:44

connections , you're offered his show . Who's

1:47

your first guest and why did you bring them on

1:49

?

1:51

All right . So , without a doubt , and without

1:53

even a second thinking about it , it

1:55

has to be his air nurse , michael Jordan . So

1:58

I'm a massive Michael Jordan fan . I've been

2:00

idolizing this guy since

2:02

I know what basketball is , and

2:05

I don't think there's

2:07

a human being in the history of mankind

2:09

that has been as good as

2:11

what he or she does , as Michael Jordan has

2:13

been at playing basketball , and I think

2:15

he had a really interesting journey . I've

2:18

read his book , i've watched the documentaries or

2:20

everything that could get my hands on , and

2:22

I think his journey is a really interesting one . And

2:25

, yeah , i would invite him straight away , without a doubt

2:27

.

2:28

He'd be an amazing guest . I

2:30

can share more sometime offline if you'd like , but

2:32

the NBA was a client of mine for

2:34

several years when I did a different

2:37

sort of consulting in the late 90s , and so

2:39

you remember those series between the Utah Jazz

2:41

and the Bulls . Oh , there were a couple

2:43

of great series in there , love it . I think it

2:45

was the 97

2:47

series where Michael was so sick Yeah

2:49

, he had the flu . So I'm there with the

2:51

NBA , i'm on site , my

2:54

pass took me anywhere in the building except for the locker

2:56

room , and so I'm watching the Bulls come

2:58

off of the floor to go to their locker

3:00

room . Halfway through the game Michael

3:02

walked by me , maybe within 15

3:05

feet , and he looked like death , warmed over

3:07

, i mean it was . You could tell the man

3:09

was so sick , watched him come back

3:11

out And it's like you said

3:13

there's something about this guy , because

3:15

it was as if it was a different person on

3:18

the floor As soon as that jump

3:20

ball went up . You'd

3:22

never know he was sick But was . Having seen

3:24

him up close and seen him look so bad , it

3:27

was amazing to me . How does he do that ? How

3:29

do you ? what is that in someone ? You can

3:31

just overcome any physical challenge and do

3:34

that .

3:35

I remember watching it on TV in Germany , so it's

3:38

pretty amazing to think that you were actually

3:40

there and so close up as well .

3:42

Yeah . Yeah , it was a good , they were good client

3:44

, okay . But we're here to talk about

3:47

not basketball , but enablement , and

3:49

the topic you proposed is one that I actually

3:51

was immediately excited about , because it's so

3:54

critical to the success of

3:56

any name , one program , whether you look at yourself as

3:58

revenue enablement , sales enablement , et

4:00

cetera , and that is , how

4:02

are you managing and what is the relationship

4:04

like with your key stakeholders , and

4:06

there's a lot that goes into that . So

4:09

let's kick off , if

4:11

you wouldn't mind , just briefly explain

4:13

the concept of stakeholder management as

4:16

you look at it in your experience .

4:18

Yeah , i would start off by saying

4:20

that stakeholder management

4:22

is one of the , i think , most underrated

4:24

skills of enablers . We

4:26

talk about all the technical skills

4:28

, but why stakeholder

4:31

management is so important is

4:33

because sales

4:36

enablement or revenue enablement or any sort

4:38

of enablement function . Hardly any

4:40

holds formal power within the business

4:42

, which means that we are extremely reliant

4:45

on stakeholders

4:48

being aligned with us and actually supporting

4:50

our initiatives happening

4:52

across the business . And

4:55

I think the other aspect to that as

4:57

well is that you

4:59

might have heard that phrase before , but any

5:01

enablement initiative is a change management initiative

5:04

in disguise , and

5:06

I think that is incredibly true . And if you

5:08

look at the existing body of knowledge

5:10

around change management , you'll soon realize

5:12

that it's all about stakeholder management

5:14

, no matter if it's the

5:17

senior leadership , no matter if it's adjacent

5:20

departments , no matter if it's the

5:22

actual stakeholders

5:25

that are affected by change . It's

5:27

all about people and it's all about stakeholder management

5:30

. And I think that

5:32

, if you translate it that way , that is oftentimes

5:35

an aha moment for enablement

5:37

leaders when it comes to stakeholder

5:39

management , and what I've seen

5:41

talking to enable is pretty much every

5:43

day of the week and also

5:46

maintaining close

5:48

relationships with a lot of enable

5:50

us that have been really successful in

5:52

their roles for a very long amount

5:54

of time is that sound

5:57

stakeholder management and a deliberate

5:59

effort around stakeholder management is really

6:02

a key success factor for

6:04

those strategic enablement leaders that have found long

6:06

term success And

6:09

they don't . I

6:11

think a lot of enable us that might

6:14

find success early on in their career underestimate

6:17

the relevance or the impact

6:19

that stakeholder management has on their

6:21

success , and I do find

6:24

that sooner or later and in the long run

6:26

, enablement leaders that

6:28

are successful often identify

6:30

this as one of the key factors of their success .

6:33

I would agree with that and I don't want to

6:35

give away stuff we're going to talk

6:37

about . But , yes and especially

6:39

, there are certain functions

6:42

and leaders of certain functions that I

6:44

don't believe enablement can really do

6:46

their job if they don't

6:48

have those relationships , those

6:51

stakeholder relationships you're referring to . You're

6:54

doing work , yes , but you're not really

6:56

fulfilling the purpose if you're

6:58

not doing it with the right relationship . So that's why

7:01

I was excited about this . So I'm

7:03

a you know we've got folks in the audience

7:05

that are all over

7:07

the spectrum , right , brand new on the job , three years in

7:09

the job , small companies , large companies , but

7:12

I think for everyone it would be helpful with

7:14

starting with that identification . It's

7:17

probably not much different than how we teach salespeople

7:19

to do discovery and

7:21

do account planning and that sort of thing

7:23

, but would love for you to touch on

7:26

that right How do you identify those key stakeholders

7:28

? And I like

7:30

that idea of how do you be intentional

7:33

in creating those relationships

7:35

, because , especially at the beginning is probably

7:37

going to set up how you're seeing during

7:40

your entire time there . So how do you do it properly ?

7:43

Yeah , so I mean just to give a bit of

7:45

context . You know , like around

7:47

the , what I'm sharing here , and this

7:50

is basically a process and a thought

7:52

process that I have to go through over and over

7:54

again in my work as an enablement consultant , because

7:57

it's so many situations

7:59

where I start working with a new organization

8:02

and I have to get a good

8:04

idea of the stakeholder environment , because if I'm

8:07

not deliberate about it , there's no way

8:09

I can effectively support that organization and

8:11

collaborate with those stakeholders . Yeah , so , just

8:13

just to give some background . So that

8:15

means I have gone through that

8:17

process that I'm about to share several

8:20

times . And typically

8:23

what is worth considering

8:25

is three key buckets of stakeholders

8:28

And first of all , as

8:31

of course , the teams to be enabled . And

8:33

those are the teams , you know , depending

8:36

on what the remit of enablement is , with

8:38

a net respective organization , there

8:41

could be , you know , the

8:43

sales managers , there could be

8:45

field sales , there

8:48

could be the SDRs . You know

8:50

those are the people , the end end users

8:52

, so to speak , of any sort of enablement

8:54

initiative that is going to happen . So

8:57

that , of course , is really important

8:59

to understand . So you know your target

9:02

audience within the organization , the

9:04

second big group that would typically try

9:07

to map out is the collaborators . So

9:09

, based on the

9:12

people to be enabled , who

9:14

are the collaborators across the organization and

9:17

especially the leadership across

9:19

those different departments that you need to work with in

9:21

order to make certain initiatives happen , and

9:23

there could be teams like

9:26

marketing , there could be

9:28

teams like human resources , it

9:31

, and the list goes on . You know there's , there's

9:33

a , as we spoke about

9:35

before , there's such a broad range of enablement

9:37

initiatives , and the

9:40

actual skill contained within

9:42

the enablement function might not

9:44

always be enough to actually

9:46

to actually make those initiatives happen . So

9:48

it really comes down to the skill set contained

9:50

within those collaborating departments on who you would

9:53

engage on that front . And then the third

9:55

big group I would always

9:57

look at is the executive sponsors

10:00

, right , and that might be

10:02

one person , that might be several

10:04

person people , but though

10:08

that's this person

10:10

, such as the small organizations

10:12

, most likely the CEO , or

10:15

it could be the chief revenue officer

10:17

or the VP of sales , and

10:19

those are really the senior leaders that

10:22

you want to buy in from so they

10:24

can create alignment across the organization

10:26

on your behalf as well . So those , those

10:28

are typically the three buckets that I

10:30

will be looking after And

10:33

I think , specifically for the

10:35

people that are new starters

10:37

in organization , i think they're in a really great

10:39

position to be deliberate in

10:42

mapping , as they're called , environment , because

10:44

they have the freedom to explore

10:46

right . Still they don't have to know it all and they

10:48

don't have to know all

10:50

the departments in and out . So those initial catchups

10:53

that you would typically do when you

10:55

start in a new organization

10:57

to actually understand how

10:59

the organization is structured , what

11:01

the KPIs of the different

11:03

teams are and what the objectives

11:06

are , what the challenges are , those are all conversations

11:08

early on that can contribute to

11:10

that stakeholder environment mapping . That then

11:13

comes in beneficial when you actually start

11:15

trying to align the stakeholders

11:17

and make enablement initiatives happen for

11:19

you .

11:20

I'm a big fan of playing the I'm

11:22

new here card for as long as you can

11:24

reasonably do it , because , you're

11:26

right , people expect questions . They're

11:29

usually prepared to , you know , answer

11:31

them for you , and that may not come back

11:33

around . So that's great . It's a great point

11:35

. You know there

11:37

is a lot of talk right

11:40

now about enablement

11:42

showing business impact , and

11:45

I'm glad to see

11:47

that , because it's

11:50

needed to happen . I'll just put it that way . Some

11:52

of us came directly from sales

11:55

leadership into building enablement , like

11:57

myself , and so I really never knew how

11:59

else to look at it . As a sales

12:02

leader and a sales rep , i'd sat through more than my

12:04

share of useless trainings , and

12:06

so I was determined that anything that I built I

12:09

was going to be able to track back to something

12:11

that we could measure , that the sales people and

12:14

CS folks would be more successful . But

12:16

not everybody has a sales background . Not

12:18

everybody in enablement needs to have a sales

12:21

background , for that matter . And

12:23

so , as we're talking about this

12:25

, how can anyone

12:27

in enablement demonstrate

12:30

that value and impact of their initiatives

12:32

? Because you talked about building those intentional

12:34

relationships with stakeholders , but I think you'd agree

12:36

that only goes so far , and

12:38

in the current economy , maybe more so

12:40

than ever . So what should enablement

12:43

folks be doing , now that they have those relationships

12:45

, to start to show value ?

12:48

Yeah , so it's extremely important

12:50

to make stakeholders part of the planning

12:52

process . I think

12:55

that is one of the most common

12:57

pitfalls that I see in enablement

12:59

initiatives And in some

13:01

cases , unfortunately , even the whole enablement functions

13:03

failing . So having

13:06

those relationships in place and then involving

13:09

those stakeholders that you started building relationships

13:11

with in the planning process is

13:14

the best way to create

13:16

alignment and make sure that not

13:18

only the overarching

13:20

business strategy is supported by

13:22

the enablement plan , but also

13:25

the individual goals

13:27

of the department of those stakeholders that you

13:29

involve , And I

13:31

think it is

13:33

a underutilized stakeholder

13:36

management tool to make them

13:38

part of the planning process . I

13:40

think if you inverted , the worst

13:42

case scenario would be that

13:44

you sit in

13:46

a dark room for a few months

13:48

, develop your entire enablement

13:51

strategy and then you share it with

13:53

the world and go out , And that's typically

13:55

when the

13:57

stakeholders then look at it and ask

13:59

themselves why wasn't I involved in this

14:01

process ? You

14:03

know who are you to tell me what I should

14:06

be doing with my resources and so on , and you can completely

14:08

mitigate that by involving

14:10

stakeholders in that process

14:13

. And to your question about the business

14:15

impact , I think that that is the groundwork

14:18

that you need to do . Then in terms of the specific

14:21

steps , it's really important to relate the

14:23

initiatives to senior

14:25

leadership goals and priorities as

14:27

often as possible . So always ask yourself

14:29

, based on the insight that

14:31

you have around the

14:34

strategic goals of senior revenue

14:36

leadership , how that supports . Each

14:39

initiative that you develop supports

14:42

that goal and map it

14:44

accordingly . And if you don't have a

14:46

transparency around leadership goals

14:48

, you should definitely be intentional about sourcing

14:50

that , because any other

14:52

approach would be a step in the dark from my point of view .

14:57

And I'm loving what you said at the beginning

14:59

of that segment where if

15:02

you go off into dark and create enablement

15:04

which I agree with you that

15:06

happens sometimes , but how

15:09

do we even know if we

15:11

haven't involved those stakeholders ? It would be sort of like

15:13

a salesperson . Can you imagine one of

15:15

our salespeople that we work with going off and

15:17

creating , having a discovery , meeting with themselves

15:19

, right , and then going and

15:21

pitching the solution to the prospect ? I

15:23

don't see where it's any different than that , right

15:26

.

15:26

It leaves at least a lot of room

15:28

for chance , right .

15:30

No , it really does , and so

15:32

having that buy in . I do have a question

15:35

for you that I think I

15:37

know I've come up with this and others may

15:39

have as well

15:41

How do you find that line between

15:44

getting reasonable amounts of input

15:46

from those stakeholders which I'm in

15:48

agreement with you need to do , but also

15:50

showing leadership

15:52

and sometimes needing to make the hard decision

15:55

, because what they want

15:57

sometimes may not be the

16:00

thing that their team needs ? Any

16:03

tips on that ?

16:04

I think it's extremely important to

16:06

take any sort of politics

16:09

and any sort of opinions or that discussion

16:11

, because I think that's a common

16:14

pitfall on that front As

16:16

soon as people feel like what you're

16:18

proposing is supporting your own

16:20

agenda and is only self-serving

16:23

. I think you can avoid that

16:25

by always

16:27

referring back to the

16:29

overarching strategic goals In

16:32

those discussions . Of course , it's ideal if senior

16:34

leadership is also involved to

16:36

make sure that there is alignment on that front . But

16:38

then also bring data to the conversation

16:41

and make sure that you

16:43

have either external qualitative

16:46

research that you might get your hands on

16:48

in terms of actual

16:50

customer conversations that you might conduct as part

16:53

of , for example , win-loss analysis any

16:55

third-party research that

16:57

might be out there around contributing

17:00

factors to self-effectiveness but

17:03

also then internal data , from

17:05

RevOps , for example , that

17:07

might shine light on certain issues and self-effectiveness

17:10

that you might come across

17:12

. Having that focus on

17:14

data and insights , rather than

17:16

making it feel like you're just playing politics

17:19

and you just support your own agenda , is

17:22

my preferred approach to actually

17:24

break down those barriers and to have just

17:27

sound conversations around how do

17:29

we make this work , how do we make

17:31

this work for the business and how we can we

17:33

align our resources for

17:35

the benefit of the overarching strategy .

17:37

We've been talking all around the concept

17:39

of communication , but let's

17:42

focus directly on it for a couple

17:44

of minutes . What role

17:46

should ? Well

17:48

, i think we've talked about what role communication should play

17:50

, but what about effective ? What

17:53

does effective communication look

17:55

like And what specific

17:57

recommendations do you have based on what you've seen ?

18:00

I think effective communication is extremely

18:02

important . We stakeholder

18:04

management , or effective stakeholder management , is

18:06

not possible without communication

18:09

, and

18:11

one of the tools that come up over

18:13

and over again and I can also only

18:15

advocate for and barge for , based

18:17

on my experience as an effective communication

18:20

tool to enable me to charter And

18:22

developing that charter

18:25

collaboratively with

18:27

all the key stakeholders as early as

18:29

possible is a great tool

18:32

to open up communication channels and

18:34

discussions on a recurring basis

18:36

. So the conversation

18:38

happens around the initial development

18:41

of the charter , where you clarify what

18:44

enablement does as part of the organization

18:46

, who it's serving , what

18:49

sort of services are involved , who

18:51

the collaborators are , what the goals are and

18:53

so on . And this approach

18:57

to actually developing a charter collaboratively

18:59

with your charter partners is

19:01

a really great way to

19:03

open up conversations around those

19:05

different areas that are otherwise completely

19:08

in the dark And those

19:11

things oftentimes are then overlooked

19:13

and assumed to be true , but

19:16

you don't know if those things are actually

19:18

valid or those assumptions are valid unless you actually

19:20

have that conversation . So I would say the

19:22

charter should be the foundation for all

19:24

communication around the

19:26

enablement function . And then I

19:28

think it's important

19:31

to also realize that the charter should be

19:33

a living document and you should

19:35

create as many situations

19:37

as possible to iterate on the charter and

19:39

to update it according to the

19:41

latest structure of the organization , around the latest

19:44

market dynamics , around

19:46

the latest resourcing across the collaborating

19:49

teams , and

19:51

always use the charter as a reference

19:53

point . And one of the ways

19:55

to actually create that forum

19:58

for ongoing communication and

20:00

ongoing updates is a format

20:03

which I call the Sales

20:05

and Ablement Advisory Board , which

20:07

is a regular meeting

20:09

that has been conducted , which is a

20:12

meeting that combines all the key

20:14

stakeholders involved in ongoing conversations

20:16

around enablement and that really gives everybody

20:19

a voice in their conversation and also always

20:21

gives a opportunity to update

20:23

the charter according to the latest requirement

20:25

. So those are kind of the two

20:27

approaches that I would generally share . Of course

20:30

, there also has to be room for communication

20:32

on an ad hoc basis , based

20:35

on certain initiatives that are running that

20:37

I don't want to discount , but just

20:39

on a meta level . Those are kind of the two

20:42

key communication channels that I would

20:44

recommend .

20:46

Yeah , I agree You need that ad hoc communication

20:49

, but if you don't have something like you're describing

20:51

planned , it often gets

20:53

missed just in the

20:55

fury of the business and everyone

20:58

running as hard as they can to achieve

21:00

the same goals . And yeah

21:02

, so scheduling that , I would agree , is critical . It might be

21:04

helpful for folks . Maybe

21:06

share a couple examples of the types of

21:08

people you would invite to

21:10

your enablement advisory board . What roles might they be

21:12

in ?

21:13

It fully depends on the organization that you're

21:15

dealing with , But again , it makes sense to refer

21:18

back to those three key stakeholder

21:20

groups the people

21:23

to be enabled , the collaborators and the senior

21:25

executive sponsors . From

21:29

a point of view the people to be enabled , they

21:31

will be most likely the

21:34

frontline sales managers or certain

21:37

representatives of the frontline sales management

21:39

, depending on the size of the organization , to

21:42

make sure that they're part of the conversation and they

21:44

feel a degree of ownership , which is

21:46

extremely important , as we all

21:48

know , in terms of actually implementing

21:51

enablement initiatives and scaling enablement efforts

21:53

. From a collaborator point of

21:55

view , Those are really the key

21:58

departments that are involved in an ongoing

22:00

basis . For example

22:02

, if you conduct initiatives

22:05

around buyer engagement content

22:07

or sell support content , marketing

22:09

is a typical collaborator . In that case

22:11

, the most senior

22:13

marketing leader that

22:16

is responsible for resourcing and

22:18

has a say in terms of how resources

22:20

are allocated will be the recommended

22:22

person there . When

22:24

it comes to , for example , redesigning the

22:27

hiring process , a

22:29

partner like human resources , for example

22:31

, would be a typical collaborator

22:33

, But

22:36

there can be a lot of variation , as

22:38

I alluded to earlier , in terms of the stakeholders

22:41

from the collaborator bucket

22:43

But from the

22:46

third bucket was the senior executive sponsor

22:48

. The senior executive sponsor

22:50

, or a close

22:53

, a direct

22:55

report of the senior executive sponsor

22:57

that has somebody like

22:59

a chief of staff , for example , would

23:01

be somebody that should be present , always to

23:04

make sure that ongoing alignment

23:06

is maintained and there's a certain degree of visibility

23:08

around what is happening in enablement

23:11

right now . So those are the

23:13

typical roles involved

23:15

But again , as I said before

23:17

and I always have to add this disclaimer

23:19

this might vary wildly

23:22

depending on your organization , the structure

23:24

and the remit of enablement .

23:26

Right , no , that makes sense . Your mileage may vary . Okay

23:28

, all right . One

23:33

of the benefits of being around

23:35

any profession

23:38

for a while is you learn what not to do . So

23:42

let's see if there's a couple of pitfalls that

23:44

maybe you've encountered that you can warn

23:47

some of our listeners about . What should they be looking

23:49

out for ?

23:52

I think the biggest pitfall

23:54

to avoid is not to answer the

23:56

question for your stakeholders

23:58

, not in it for me , because that

24:00

, at the end of the day , is

24:02

the determining factor whether somebody will play

24:04

ball or not . Departments

24:08

have their own goals . you know . individuals

24:11

have their own goals and not

24:13

supporting those in some shape or form is

24:16

sure that there

24:18

won't be any time spent supporting

24:20

your name and function . So

24:22

always answer that question and typically

24:26

when you have the conversation around the

24:28

overall strategic goals how

24:31

that department that you're collaborating with

24:33

feeds into those strategic

24:35

goals that's typically a

24:38

good way to find common ground and to

24:40

answer that question , you know . So how do we

24:42

create the maximum impact

24:44

for the

24:46

strategic goals of the organization

24:49

and how can we make sure that your department

24:51

contributes as effectively as possible and how

24:53

can we also make sure that you are

24:55

seen as being a key contributor in making

24:58

that strategy happen ? So those

25:00

are typically the starting points for that conversation

25:02

. I think the

25:04

other pitfall to avoid , especially

25:07

for people that haven't

25:09

operated on a senior level before

25:11

, is not to see yourself as

25:13

a peer to senior leaders , If

25:16

you see yourself as a nuance and

25:18

nuance , and if

25:20

you see yourself not being a peer of

25:22

those senior department leaders and the senior

25:24

executive sponsors , then

25:27

you automatically come

25:30

across that way right And people

25:32

right out , yeah , yeah . You

25:35

have to have that self understanding of being a peer . Okay , we're sitting

25:37

here on the table , we're trying to achieve something together

25:39

. Let's work on this together . If

25:41

you're just a little self-enablement person in

25:43

the corner , you know , afraid

25:45

to speak up and having those tough

25:47

conversations , it

25:50

is a major pitfall

25:52

when it comes to alignment And I agree

25:54

If you're still struggled with that

25:56

imposter syndrome and

25:58

if you haven't created that self understanding

26:00

of being a peer of those senior leaders across the

26:02

organization . I can only

26:05

recommend overcoming that as quickly

26:07

as possible if you want to be successful

26:09

in doing this . They call the management efforts as well .

26:12

I don't think I could agree with that any

26:14

further . Again , i think about how we talk to our

26:17

salespeople . It's the same thing . If

26:19

they act like the

26:21

prospect is doing them a favor from

26:23

the very beginning relationship , they're setting themselves

26:26

up for a really painful negotiation down the road

26:28

. That's right . So you don't even get that far , and

26:31

I agree with you . It's the same thing . And what

26:33

I tell salespeople is look , if

26:35

you know your product , you know your market , you

26:38

know your ICPs and

26:40

you've honed your craft as a seller , you

26:42

are bringing value And you

26:44

should not feel any differently than that . And

26:46

it's the same with the enablement folks , all

26:48

the things that you have mentioned up till now

26:50

having a charter , the communication

26:53

, getting input should

26:55

put you . If you've done that , you should

26:57

feel confident that you are bringing

26:59

value to those relationships . Sometimes

27:02

, i realize , easy to say , hard to do , but got

27:05

to find a way to do it . And I think

27:07

sometimes just speaking up in executive settings

27:09

even if you , you know

27:11

, skin your knees a couple of times , sometimes it's

27:13

the only way to get better . The only thing is to

27:15

put yourself out there and do it .

27:18

Any other pitfalls to be aware of . The last

27:20

point I want to mention is the lack of focus in communication

27:23

and Execution . Sorry

27:26

, okay , no , go ahead , i'm just agreeing with you

27:28

, yeah , yeah . So the last point I want to mention

27:30

is the lack of focus and communication

27:32

and execution . I think

27:34

focus is a luxury

27:36

, especially in large organizations

27:39

, and Being focused

27:41

in your communication , being really to

27:43

the point in your communication with your stakeholders

27:45

and really focus on the goals will

27:48

Signal to everybody that you

27:50

are focused on making those things happen that

27:52

you set out to do and that you know They

27:54

are to fiddle around the edges . you know like you're

27:56

really there to generate

27:59

results , and that should be reflected

28:01

in the way you communicate . In terms of the execution

28:03

, another pitfall that I

28:05

come across over and over again

28:08

especially We're in well

28:10

resource organizations that are new to enablement

28:12

. They oftentimes Bid

28:14

of more than they can chew right , and they

28:16

get all excited about enablement

28:18

everybody buys in and That

28:21

oftentimes leads to them attempting to

28:23

boil the ocean right , and what I mean

28:25

by that is that they

28:27

then suddenly planned

28:29

for an ablement to be the a major

28:31

transformation driver for the organization , which

28:34

that means that they look after

28:36

10 different initiatives at the same

28:38

time , right with enablement just starting

28:40

out and I think that is a Lack

28:43

of focus and then typically leads to

28:45

none of the initiatives really

28:47

truly creating an impact . People

28:49

get sidetracked all the time because there's too much

28:51

to juggle , stakeholders

28:54

don't know where to focus

28:56

those contributing resources and then , at

28:58

the end of the day , the senior leadership

29:00

then comes to the conclusion that enablement wasn't

29:02

for our organization and Unfortunately

29:05

, now that we have to cut costs , it

29:07

doesn't really make sense for to invest further , and

29:09

I think that focus is

29:11

one of the key values that enablement

29:13

can really bring to the table in those

29:15

complex stakeholder environments as well .

29:18

Everybody loves a great success story

29:20

. Share one with us . When

29:22

have you seen things you're talking about done

29:24

really well and and and ? what were the outcomes

29:26

?

29:28

Yeah . So one of the

29:30

recent projects that I ran with a client

29:32

of the UK comes to mind

29:34

, where We

29:37

were doing a top-perform analysis

29:39

and for the purpose of then Kicking

29:42

off other initiatives . You know so the top-perform

29:44

analysis , which means identifying

29:47

the best practices that set

29:49

top performers , apart

29:51

from the mid-performers , it can be used

29:53

in so many different ways , like the onboarding

29:56

program , the general training

29:58

offering , and

30:00

it can be used in the content

30:03

development to create self-support

30:05

content , buyer engagement content

30:08

and so on . So , and we embarked on

30:10

that journey of conducting a top-perform

30:12

analysis and then translating those insights into

30:14

all those different initiatives . And

30:16

I , as part of

30:18

this project , i initially engaged the

30:21

enablement leader of that organization

30:23

as a consulting partner and We

30:26

first , you know , identified the

30:28

objectives , how we wanted

30:30

to approach that project . And then

30:32

we did the rounds and ran

30:34

this past the frontline sales Leadership

30:37

, so frontline sales managers , and

30:40

also the , the revenue leadership , so the

30:42

frontline sales managers across North America

30:45

and Europe were involved

30:47

, and we also involved the

30:49

chief revenue officer and to get sign

30:51

off on the approach . And during those

30:54

meetings there were some , some , some practicalities

30:56

that we identified

30:58

in that weren't feasible

31:00

as part of the approach

31:02

that we initially developed . So we modified

31:05

them instantly and accommodated

31:08

for those difficulties , which

31:10

then Made it a better approach

31:12

, right . But at the same time , as I mentioned

31:14

earlier in terms of involving stakeholders in the

31:16

planning approach , that also made everybody

31:18

feel like they They're part

31:20

of the initiatives and made feel like they had a certain degree

31:23

of ownership in this initiative because they contributed

31:25

to the approach . We then actually executed

31:28

the project , so we did those

31:30

top-perform analysis interviews

31:32

and data

31:34

analysis Across the different sales

31:36

teams . We interviewed all those partners

31:38

again , which

31:40

also increased the degree of perceived

31:42

ownership of sales reps Across

31:45

those different formats that would then be developed

31:47

in the follow-up . So they feel like they've

31:49

contributed to training being developed . They

31:51

contributed , or they feel like they contributed

31:54

, to Effective onboarding

31:56

programs being developed , which also has

31:58

value in itself . And then , once

32:00

we captured all this information

32:02

and started to synthesize the

32:04

insights , we then again engage

32:06

the frontline sales managers

32:09

and the revenue leadership and presenting

32:11

the results and also

32:14

then sharing on how we plan on

32:16

using those insights

32:18

and those Results that

32:20

we have captured in those follow-up

32:22

initiatives , right ? So this was the cadence

32:25

that we developed and The

32:27

sort of results that we have seen on the back of it was

32:29

, as I mentioned , the

32:32

, the level of buy-in Was

32:34

was really great . So everybody was excited

32:37

about the initiative . Everybody understand what we're

32:39

trying to achieve . There was a great

32:41

degree of transparency , there was a

32:43

great degree of engagement across all those different

32:45

stakeholders that we engaged . There

32:48

was a little resourcing being allocated

32:50

to make those follow-up initiatives happen , also

32:53

with internal resources and

32:55

external vendors as well . And

32:57

Then , on top of that and we've

32:59

also seen , you know , revenue impacts

33:02

on the back of that initiative as well , which

33:04

was obviously one of the , the KPIs

33:06

that we had developed , and because

33:08

the one of the key teams to

33:11

be enabled Referring back to

33:13

those three buckets that are outlined earlier was

33:16

the SMB sales team and They

33:19

had seen an increase in deal size

33:21

on the back of this project of 40%

33:23

. Right , so there was a very tangible impact

33:26

of that and I couldn't have asked

33:28

for a better project , you know , in

33:30

terms of the , the impact on the

33:32

stakeholders as well as the business impact

33:35

. And You know , apart from the

33:37

actual execution , which obviously requires

33:39

a subject matter expertise and certain

33:41

skills , and I would say stakeholder

33:44

management was one of the key factors in the

33:46

success of that initiative .

33:48

Those are great results , whether you're a SaaS organization

33:50

, no matter what kind of sale it is , 40%

33:52

increase in in deal size Yeah

33:56

, that's gonna get people's attention and . Probably

33:58

helped . A lot of sales people take home bigger checks , which is

34:00

always a nice part of what we get to do as well

34:02

. So that's right

34:04

, all right , well , let's I

34:06

I want to give Before

34:09

we go . Let's just one more thing , just

34:11

thinking back what we've talked about

34:14

, or even in general , and what

34:16

are , what are some pro tips that

34:18

you think our audience would benefit

34:20

from with driving stakeholder Engagement

34:23

and managing those relationships and the

34:25

things we've been talking about the best way

34:27

to become better at stakeholder

34:29

management is to be intentional about

34:32

it and to really

34:34

and Create

34:36

that focus .

34:36

You know , i think when I think back to early

34:39

on in my career , stakeholder management

34:41

was kind of like a necessity and was something that

34:43

was happening as

34:45

a side effect of me

34:47

trying to do my work as

34:49

well as possible . I do

34:52

believe that it is worthwhile

34:54

looking at it as a As

34:57

a stream that runs simultaneously to the

34:59

skills that you're trying to develop , to develop right , so

35:01

you develop those technical skills as

35:03

part of your enablement role . Stakeholder

35:06

management is the second big , a big bucket

35:08

that you need to look after and it

35:10

is worthwhile really being intentional as

35:13

quickly as possible and about it

35:15

and I think You know there's

35:17

there's two ways you can be

35:20

intentional about it . One , i would

35:22

say , is to learn about

35:24

robust change management approaches , and

35:27

You know part of that might be

35:29

seeking out resources like this

35:31

podcast and also looking

35:34

into books and , in

35:37

terms of this Change management

35:39

, the best change management book

35:41

that I have come across Is

35:44

better change by the PWC

35:46

Change management team . This

35:49

book is not in print anymore , so you have to get a

35:51

used copy , but it is still

35:53

one of the best books I've come across

35:56

. And Then

35:58

, on top of that , i think it is also

36:00

important for Enablers to

36:02

really seek out coaching . You

36:04

know like to really think through and

36:07

live situations that they're dealing with right

36:09

now to to really Establish

36:12

the best approach right . There's only so many scenarios

36:16

that you can read about and come up with

36:18

In your own mind without

36:20

being in that situation , and a coach or

36:22

a mentor can really help you to

36:24

think through those situations and maybe

36:26

also Share insights into

36:28

similar Situations he or she

36:31

has encountered . So those are kind of the two things

36:33

I would recommend and everybody

36:35

look into it to become Intentional

36:37

about stakeholder management .

36:39

Thank you , felix . This has been a really

36:41

strong conversation , and what I mean

36:43

by that is , you know , what we're

36:46

always trying to do on This

36:48

podcast is give people very specific

36:50

, actionable things that they can go and take

36:52

and incorporate into their business , and

36:54

you've Done that quite

36:57

. Give them quite a bit to think about and talk on . If

37:00

people have questions or they'd like to follow up

37:02

, is LinkedIn the best way

37:04

to reach out and connect with you .

37:06

Yeah , linkedin . I That's

37:08

my second life . I'm always

37:10

on LinkedIn , so reach out

37:12

to me at Felix Kruger

37:14

of FFWD

37:17

, and You can also

37:19

find us on goffwdcom

37:22

, which is my website . And

37:25

, yeah , i would also encourage you to To

37:28

listen to the state of sales name and podcast , where

37:30

I interview great people like Paul

37:32

Butterfield . So , yeah , please

37:34

, please , make sure to tune in if you get a chance , all

37:37

right .

37:37

Well , thank you again , felix , and thank

37:39

you everybody who's just investing another

37:41

half hour of your time with us . We

37:43

appreciate it , You're why we do this , and

37:46

we'll see you again in two weeks with a new guest at a new

37:48

topic . See you , everybody .

37:49

Thanks for joining this episode of stories

37:51

from the trenches . For more sales enablement

37:53

resources , be sure to join the sales enablement

37:56

society at s e society

37:58

org . That's s e s

38:00

o c i e t y org

38:03

.