0:01

Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society

0:03

Stories from the Trenches , where enablement

0:05

practitioners share their real-world experiences

0:08

. Get the scoop on what's happening inside

0:11

Sales Enablement teams across the global

0:13

SES member community . Each

0:15

segment of Stories from the Trenches share

0:17

the good , the bad and the

0:19

ugly practices of corporate sales

0:21

. Enablement initiatives learned what

0:23

worked , what didn't work and how

0:25

obstacles were eliminated by corporate

0:27

teams and leadership . Get back , grab a

0:29

cold one and join host Paul Butterfield

0:31

for casual conversations about the wide

0:34

and varied profession of sales enablement

0:36

, where there is never a fits all solution

0:38

.

0:40

Welcome everyone back to another episode of

0:42

Stories from Trenches , the only

0:44

, as far as we know , podcast that's truly

0:46

by enablers for enablers

0:49

and where we bring together leaders

0:51

and individual contributors from all across

0:53

the world that are doing innovative and

0:56

different things and seeing success . Or

0:58

sometimes we talk about when it didn't go as

1:01

well as they thought and how they backed up and ran

1:03

at it and was successful again . Sometimes just as

1:05

much learning there . So before

1:07

I introduce today's guest , which I'm very

1:09

excited to do , I want to ask you all

1:11

a question Are your marketing

1:13

and sales teams playing well together ? Are

1:15

they still playing the same old game ? You know

1:17

what I'm talking about Marketing creating

1:20

loads of content that just gathers

1:22

digital dust . Sales teams are onboarded

1:25

with lengthy and , frankly , snooze

1:27

training , underwhelming

1:29

buyer experiences . You know today's sellers

1:31

and buyers expect so much more

1:33

. So time out To take

1:35

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1:37

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1:40

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1:42

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1:44

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1:46

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1:49

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1:53

. All

1:56

right , everyone . So now , as promised

1:59

, I want to introduce you to our guest . His

2:01

name is Paul Norford . He is the

2:03

VP of global enablement

2:05

at Ivante , and

2:08

actually a lot of us know him as Norf , so if

2:10

you hear me say that at some point , don't

2:13

be surprised .

2:15

So welcome Paul , it's nice to have you here , it's

2:18

great to be here , paul , and you

2:20

might actually feel like this is a bit of a Paul convention

2:22

, so I like the fact that you call me Paul

2:24

. That's great , p2 . Maybe we call the echo

2:28

. Maybe we should . That's right .

2:30

All right . So why not just share a

2:32

little bit about yourself and the work you're

2:34

doing , and then we'll jump into the James

2:37

Corden challenge .

2:38

Sure , okay . So firstly

2:40

, paul , it's great to be on the show . I'm a massive

2:42

fan of the podcast and

2:45

I only recently discovered it probably a

2:47

year , maybe 18 months ago and

2:50

I have been a fan of it ever since . You've

2:52

had some great guests on . There

2:55

have been some great content

2:57

that's been shared . Like you say , it's about

2:59

enablers for enablers by

3:01

enablers . I think it's phenomenal . So

3:04

Norf , what am I about ? So Ivante

3:06

? So Norf , what am I about

3:09

? I work for a company called Ivante

3:11

and we effectively create

3:13

IT service management

3:15

software that allows people

3:19

, companies , their stuff

3:21

to ensure that

3:23

their data is secure

3:26

, both at rest and in flight . And

3:28

if you think about it now , with the world as it

3:30

stands , as long as you have

3:32

an internet connection , you can work from anywhere , and

3:35

that's effectively what we help companies

3:38

do . We help companies and

3:40

their people access their data at

3:42

rest securely because we

3:45

enable the everywhere workplace

3:47

. Our marketing slogan is

3:49

everywhere work elevated

3:51

. But what it means for people like you and me , paul

3:54

, is that I can unplug my laptop

3:56

, I can use my smartphone

3:58

, plug it in , have it wirelessly

4:01

connected and access content

4:03

on the Ivante network behind

4:05

our secure firewall , so I

4:07

can do what I need to do Effectively

4:10

making technology seamless

4:13

and making me interacting

4:16

with that technology and making

4:18

sure that I am productive with the

4:20

time that I have , with the access

4:22

to the data that I require

4:25

and that's done seamlessly

4:28

. That's what we do

4:30

. We also have

4:32

an element of being able to look after that

4:34

data from a supply chain perspective as

4:36

well . So Ivante is broadly made

4:38

up of two parts . There's the

4:40

IT service management part and

4:42

all the catalog of things

4:45

that we do there , but we also focus

4:47

on supply chain . So , for example

4:49

, you'll know this if you order

4:51

anything from your favorite online Western

4:53

retailer , without the

4:56

Ivante Wavelength supply

4:58

chain software in play , you

5:01

won't get your packages delivered to your doorstep

5:03

.

5:04

All right , Well , thanks for that

5:06

. You know , fun fact , you're

5:09

in the UK but I drive by Yvonne headquarters

5:11

multiple times a week . It's not right

5:13

for my house , you

5:15

do .

5:15

That's right Part of the tech quarter here in Salt

5:18

Lake City .

5:19

All right , so we're going to mix it up a little bit

5:21

this time . Normally we have

5:23

what I call the Jimmy Kimmel Challenge , but you

5:25

and I were talking beforehand about just

5:27

as equally funny if not more so sometimes

5:30

James Corden . So let's have some fun with it . We're going

5:32

to switch it up to the James Corden challenge . James

5:35

Corden decides to retire . Through

5:37

Friends of Friends , you're offered his

5:39

show . You can have anyone

5:41

, either in the car or on

5:43

the couch , anybody

5:45

you want for your first show . Who would you choose , and

5:48

why them ?

5:49

Wow , okay . So I'm going to have

5:51

a bit of fun with you , paul . I'm actually not going to pick one

5:53

or two , I'm going to pick three , and

5:56

what I'm going to do is I'm going to have one in the car

5:58

, one on the back of my motorcycle and one

6:00

in the studio . Okay , so

6:03

I will have as

6:05

a UK gentleman called Lenny Henry

6:07

. For anyone that's listening who

6:09

knows Lenny Henry , he is a Brit

6:12

, he was born in Birmingham and

6:15

as I was growing up , lenny

6:17

Henry was that kind of de facto

6:19

black comedian who

6:21

I latched onto and

6:24

a lot of my characteristics

6:26

modeled myself on him . So

6:28

lots of people will kind of put my photos side by side with

6:30

Lenny Henry and say , no , if you look just like

6:32

Lenny Henry , to which

6:35

my response would be one of his jokes

6:37

or one of his anecdotes . So

6:39

I would have Lenny Henry . Okay

6:42

, do it . So Lenny Henry I

6:44

would probably have , let's

6:47

say I'd have him in the car , on

6:52

the back of a motorbike . I would have a

6:54

guy called Fred North . He's a French

6:57

stunt helicopter

6:59

pilot and he

7:01

, I think he's based in the US now . But

7:03

one of the things I wanted to be growing

7:06

up was a helicopter pilot and

7:08

the stories that I hear from Fred

7:10

North have really inspired me to

7:12

push the envelope of things that I

7:14

do not just around kind of

7:17

. You know , personal things like you know , playing drums , for

7:19

example , but also work

7:21

wise in a neighborhood , and I'll kind of come

7:23

to that a little bit later as we unpack

7:25

some of the elements that we're here to talk

7:27

about today . So Fred North I would have on the back of

7:29

my motorbike . Given that he's a helicopter

7:31

pilot , I'm sure he's a bit of a speed freak . So I'll

7:33

put him on the back of my bike and

7:36

, out of interest , the bike that I currently ride

7:38

is an Aprilia RSV 1000

7:41

, aprilia RSV 1000 . So

7:43

I'd have Lenny Henry in the car , I'd have Fred

7:45

North on the back of a motorbike and

7:47

in the studio I

7:49

would have somebody else who also inspires

7:52

me . I alluded to it a bit earlier when I talked about drums

7:54

, the person who got me into

7:56

drums and was a

7:59

really great conversation that I had with him

8:01

. I called him cold , called him up cold one

8:03

day and said do you give drum lessons ? And he said

8:05

no , I don't . I'm just in the middle of recording

8:07

an album . Once the album was released

8:10

I went out and bought that album and then he called me

8:12

back a couple of months later saying you

8:14

remember calling me and you said you wanted drum

8:16

lessons . Well , I'm free now to give you some drum

8:18

lessons . And his name he's

8:21

from Barbados and

8:23

his name is Richard Bailey . He

8:26

used to play for my favorite band

8:28

, a band called Incognito , who have

8:30

been going for 40 years , and

8:33

he used to play drums for them . And

8:35

the thing that really inspires me about Richard Bailey

8:38

is that he claims that he was self

8:40

taught , and to be able

8:42

to listen to a particular

8:45

drum pattern , kind of slow

8:47

it down in your mind , learn it and then

8:49

add your own flavor to it , for me

8:51

is again very , very inspiring

8:53

. So

8:55

I used to play , I still play drums . I haven't

8:57

played for a while , but all of the three

8:59

people that I mentioned are huge

9:01

inspirations for me . So Lenny

9:03

Henry , comedian , fred North

9:05

, who is a

9:07

French stunt pilot , helicopter stunt pilot

9:09

and Richard Bailey , drummer

9:11

.

9:12

Well , we need to find a way to make that happen . You'd

9:16

watch it All

9:18

right . Well , now we got to get into the serious bit

9:20

, but don't worry everybody , it's going

9:22

to be really interesting too . Let's

9:25

talk about , I mean , and broadly we're going to talk

9:28

about the digital aspects of enablement

9:30

, and so why don't we start

9:32

off with this ? How

9:34

you define that and the role

9:36

that it has in enablement to set the base . Yeah

9:39

, what are the digital aspects of our jobs ?

9:42

Well , if you stop and think about it , there's

9:45

, there's , there's digital enablement

9:48

everywhere . Okay , and

9:50

let's think about the digital platforms

9:52

that are out there that we learned from . The biggest

9:54

one , of course , is YouTube . Right

9:56

, you , you know that age-old adage

9:59

which is if you want to know anything , you want to learn

10:01

anything . Youtube is your friend . Yeah , and it

10:03

may be that you're looking to , I don't

10:05

know , wire a plug . Not that you should

10:07

do that , you should have a qualified electrician to do that

10:09

. But you know , if you're looking to

10:11

wire a plug or you're looking to wire in your hi-fi

10:13

or plumbing or whatever , you'd go to

10:15

YouTube , right right . Also , if you

10:18

think about it , the ways that

10:21

we've historically learned

10:23

are the old ways . You

10:25

know , sitting in front of the classroom having

10:27

hours and hours of somebody talking

10:29

at you , monologuing about whatever it is

10:31

. For me because I have a very

10:33

short attention span , I think I have maybe

10:36

some ailment like ADHD

10:38

or something like that I just I

10:40

can't , I can't stay tuned in for long

10:42

, so that's probably why

10:44

I was never particularly good at

10:46

Academic subjects , whereas if

10:49

you give me something physical , I

10:51

can pretty much build you anything . At least that's

10:54

what I used to tell myself . Now

10:56

we're in an age of Almost

10:59

instant gratification , of

11:01

being able to access anything instantly

11:04

. Yeah , when it comes

11:06

to a neighbor woman , why can't we have that

11:08

same mindset ? Strictly speaking

11:10

, I am generation X , so I

11:14

was . I was born I'm not gonna tell

11:16

you when I was born , but I am definitely a generation

11:18

X yeah , but I think like

11:20

a millennial , and the reason I say that is

11:22

that if you think of generation

11:25

X , they had a Acoustic

11:28

acoustic . If you think of generation

11:30

X , they had a

11:32

Analog childhood , but

11:34

they now have a digital adulthood

11:37

. Yeah , if you think about millennials

11:39

, or even Gen Z , everything

11:41

that they do is around digital , correct

11:44

they . Therefore , they have a different mindset

11:47

. So for me , as a generation Xer , it's

11:49

easier for me to change my mindset to embrace

11:51

the digital world . So

11:53

, again , time those two things together

11:55

. Youtube and you've

11:57

want to learn anything , you would go to YouTube , but

12:00

why can't we have the same

12:03

sorts of forms of enablement

12:05

, like YouTube videos

12:07

, 15 minute short clips on

12:09

demand , whenever you like , wherever

12:11

you are in the world ? So if I want

12:13

to learn anything around enablement and

12:16

let's just say Territory

12:18

planning or account planning , if

12:20

I'm not too sharp on account

12:23

planning , why can't I go

12:25

to a YouTube type platform

12:28

that Avanti has built or bought

12:30

in with great Content

12:32

that I can consume Wherever

12:34

I am , to sharpen my skills ? I'm

12:37

a I'm a big fan of the fact

12:39

that skills of the currency for the work

12:41

of tomorrow . So if I can sharpen

12:44

my skills on a week by week basis or

12:46

a regular basis . It means

12:48

that Whatever I'm learning is

12:50

going to be up there with my name and address

12:53

.

12:53

When we were talking before the show you

12:55

, you referred to the difference

12:57

between doing digital versus

13:00

being digital . I thought that was . I

13:02

thought that was a really interesting way to put it . So

13:04

what ? How does that , what does that

13:06

mean and how does that translate into what

13:08

we do when we support our teams ? With enablement

13:10

, Great question .

13:12

Great question for me , being

13:15

digital is Is

13:17

part of what we do as

13:19

enablers , day in , day out . Obviously

13:22

, we connect with people and if you

13:24

think about it , people haven't really

13:27

evolved . Technology has

13:29

. Look at where we are with AI and

13:31

the different types of AI generative

13:33

, additive , all of those elements but

13:35

if you think about humans , we haven't really

13:38

changed . We still communicate in

13:40

three basic ways . There

13:42

is the element of Nonverbal

13:45

communication . Then there's the

13:47

words that we choose to use and the tone that we put

13:49

those words in . And if you think about

13:51

Doing digital

13:54

versus being digital , if

13:56

I'm just gonna do digital , it's very much . Well , I'll put

13:58

a post out here , I may take a picture and

14:01

send that out there or whatever . Right

14:03

for me , being

14:05

digital is Embracing those

14:07

aspects of communication on

14:09

any digital platform that I choose

14:11

to use . I've realized that LinkedIn , for

14:13

me , is a great platform . I love LinkedIn

14:16

. I'm also a visual person

14:18

, so I'm a visual learner . I'm an auditory

14:20

learner as well . So for

14:22

me , overlaying that

14:25

notion of being digital , creating

14:28

video and pictures for

14:31

me allows , allows

14:35

me to , rather than just making

14:37

one-off transactions

14:39

of conversing or

14:42

starting a conversation of

14:44

this is what I'm seeing today . It's

14:47

actually , what I'm trying to do is to open

14:49

up a digital dialogue by connecting

14:52

with other like-minded individuals Around

14:54

the globe . Of this is what I'm seeing

14:56

. What are you seeing ? It starts those

14:59

conversations . That then defaults back

15:01

into those three ways

15:04

in which we communicate nonverbals

15:06

the words that I choose to

15:08

use , or the words that we choose to use as

15:10

we communicate , and and then the

15:13

tone in which I use those

15:15

words . So , for me , doing digital

15:17

is I'm gonna dip my toe

15:19

in , but I'm not really focused on it . I'm still gonna

15:21

have the fixed mindset of doing what I do , whereas

15:24

being digital allows all

15:27

of us to open up and share

15:29

what we do on those digital

15:31

platforms like LinkedIn or even

15:33

, dare I say , instagram and YouTube .

15:36

Okay , so let's translate

15:38

that for our audience , because I'm sure some of them

15:40

are wondering Sounds good , I

15:42

think I get it , but how do they

15:45

Help them take that to the

15:47

, to the , to the street , right ? How

15:50

does an enablement team or an enablement

15:52

individual make that second

15:54

nature To their programs

15:57

? And maybe let's apply that to continuous learning

15:59

.

16:00

Is that right yeah ?

16:00

sure .

16:01

Yeah , yeah , absolutely great point . Rather

16:05

than having one-off transactions

16:08

of training , let's just say , and

16:10

let's pick something presentation

16:13

skills , for example , paul . Rather

16:15

than just having a presentation skills course

16:18

that is just rolled out once and you expect people

16:20

to take it , how

16:22

about you create that presentation skills

16:25

course and you roll the course out

16:27

and then you roll

16:29

parts of the course out as elements

16:32

of micro learning or

16:35

elements of looking

16:38

to drive people's behavior to

16:40

change how they present ? I

16:42

don't believe in this day and age people

16:45

will sit for any longer than 15 minutes

16:47

learning content , and

16:51

you know me , paul , we've worked together for

16:53

quite a while Boring

16:55

, monotone content really

16:57

will not be consumed , and it may well

16:59

be the best content on the planet , but if

17:02

it's being delivered in a way that's very

17:04

, very monotone , you'll end up turning people

17:06

off , and I put that voice They'll

17:09

play and we know what we're doing . That's

17:12

right . That's right . They've completely switched

17:14

off , they've completely unplugged . I'm

17:16

going to go off and do something else . So

17:19

by leveraging simple things

17:21

like the power

17:23

of your voice , pitch , the

17:26

speed at which you deliver

17:28

content , you're able to

17:30

create a story out

17:33

of the presentation skills course

17:35

that you may have just put together , putting

17:38

it into bite size chunks as well . Think back

17:41

to what we talked about and what we alluded to earlier

17:43

with . If you want to learn anything , youtube is your

17:45

friend , but put it in short , bite size

17:47

pieces . It may well be that

17:49

I'm kind of sat here and through my mind

17:51

I think hang on , I've got a presentation to give later

17:53

. I need to learn about

17:55

how not to be monotone

17:57

. Okay , let me do a quick search on our

18:00

internal learning platform how

18:02

not to be monotone . Great , there's

18:04

a video here that Paul's done . What does Paul talk

18:06

about when it comes to not being monotone

18:08

? And it might be that it's

18:10

just a little bit of micro learning

18:12

that I need . I don't need to sit through an entire

18:14

presentation skills course . What

18:17

I need is that single element

18:19

of micro learning where I am Almost

18:22

think about it as just in time learning .

18:24

All right , how do enablement

18:26

teams take advantage of that ? Because I'll bet a lot

18:28

of folks listening . Maybe

18:31

they've even read about it . They're hearing about it not

18:33

for the first time , but maybe

18:35

they don't know how to do it , or that's

18:38

not fair to say . Maybe they don't know where to start or

18:40

doing a special platform or some

18:42

things like that Right .

18:44

So I think that you say that , paul , and I consider

18:46

. For me , the trigger

18:48

was the pandemic where we had to

18:50

leave the office . We couldn't

18:53

travel anywhere . We

18:55

had to create studios

18:58

, create places where we could create

19:00

content in our homes . Some people picked

19:02

it up and learned it very , very quickly . Others

19:05

perhaps not so quickly . So one of the

19:07

things that I found that I was passionate

19:10

about is presentation

19:13

skills . Now , there's a huge difference

19:15

between presenting in person to

19:17

presenting virtually . So one

19:19

of the things that I did was I just

19:21

grabbed a camera , pointed

19:23

the right end of the camera at me and

19:26

just started to create content . There

19:29

were some subtle elements that I did before

19:31

I actually hit record on the camera , one

19:33

of which was creating a script , creating

19:35

a story what do I want to talk about

19:38

and what's in it for my learners ? But

19:41

from starting with that

19:43

, I started to create content

19:45

. Now , if you look at my first video

19:48

, it was awful . The

19:50

coloring was terrible , the backdrop

19:52

was awful . I think I was

19:54

relatively unmonitoned

19:57

, but I didn't know what I didn't

19:59

know . But I started with something that

20:01

I was passionate about , which was presenting

20:04

. So what I did

20:06

was I simply took that and I taught

20:08

myself how to edit video by

20:11

going to YouTube . I

20:14

learned how to craft

20:17

words and to use a

20:19

microphone . Historically , I

20:22

spent a bit of time learning

20:24

how to be a radio presenter , so that skill

20:26

came with me when I was creating

20:28

those videos . And even now , with creating

20:31

this podcast , those

20:33

skills came out . So I started with

20:35

something that I was passionate about but

20:37

started to create content

20:40

that would scale . Video scales

20:42

, podcasts , scale they're

20:44

ubiquitous . You're walking

20:46

around with a smartphone in your pocket broadly , which

20:49

is a television , so how can

20:51

you create as an enabler , how can

20:53

you create your own internal

20:55

TV channel that has got

20:57

high quality content in that

20:59

people can consume and the

21:01

fact that your teams know you , you

21:04

can be talking about something that you're passionate

21:07

about . That is going to help the

21:09

teams improve their skills . So

21:11

that's where I started , but

21:14

investing more and more time , more

21:16

and more energy in learning the craft

21:18

of how to tell a story and telling

21:20

it well , pulling in areas

21:23

around just-in-time learning , creating

21:26

short form content that's in a series

21:29

that will help people

21:31

scale and change

21:33

their behavior . Okay , there's going to be checks and balances

21:36

in there as well , and you've got to be able

21:38

to measure where people

21:40

have started from versus where they finish

21:42

. You know again , you can't manage what

21:44

you can't measure and you can't measure what you can't

21:46

see . So , with all of those things in place

21:48

Impact Right , correct , exactly . So

21:53

I would highly recommend start with something

21:55

you're passionate about . Start

21:57

to develop a digital

21:59

strategy around creating

22:01

a YouTube-esque

22:04

, dare I say content that

22:06

is fully

22:08

functioning , that is high

22:11

quality for the sales teams

22:13

that you serve . That's what I would say

22:15

.

22:15

You've alluded to this a little bit but

22:18

I want to make sure we covered effectively

22:20

and that is finding adjacent

22:23

I guess a Jason sees

22:25

from other fields and areas

22:27

and there's innovation going

22:29

on that has nothing to do with enablement . How

22:32

do we , as enablement

22:34

, find that and and bring

22:36

that in and incorporate those best practices ?

22:39

I'm a huge fan of focusing

22:41

on the swim lanes that we're in . Equally

22:45

, I'm a big fan of looking left

22:47

and looking right of the

22:49

swim lane that I'm in , so say , for example

22:52

, we're talking about presentation

22:54

skills , like we did . There's a huge difference

22:56

between presenting in person and presenting

22:58

online . If I'm presenting

23:01

in person , I'll be using

23:03

Similar skills or

23:05

similar attributes as I would be if

23:07

I'm presenting virtually . However

23:10

, if I'm presenting virtually

23:12

, there are slightly , there

23:15

are more skills that I would bring in

23:17

that differ to that of presenting

23:19

online that's sorry

23:21

to that of presenting in person

23:24

. If I also want that

23:26

to scale , if we think about the virtual deliveries

23:28

, if I want that to scale , why can't I

23:30

simply just hit record and record

23:33

the contents that I'm delivering

23:35

virtually ? But

23:37

then why can't I use that content in In

23:40

elements of reels

23:42

, instagram reels , youtube shorts

23:44

and I'm pulling the notion

23:46

from that adjacency

23:48

of what's out there in the

23:51

public domain , of YouTube

23:53

shorts , instagram reels , even

23:55

TikTok videos why can't

23:58

I take that same notion and plug

24:00

that into my neighbour , my content ? Why

24:02

can't I use elements of humor to

24:05

talk about ? This is how you

24:07

would present versus how you don't present

24:09

. Why can't I use some

24:11

of the elements that I see if I'm watching Ted

24:14

Lasso that we talked about a little bit earlier . You

24:16

know , why can't I bring those elements

24:18

in Into my neighbour

24:20

content right ? Because , remember , I'm talking

24:23

, I'm trying to communicate with a human , when

24:25

us humans have lots of different facets , right

24:28

and and lots of different attributes

24:31

. So why can't I pull some of

24:33

those levers ? Why does it all have to be serious

24:35

? Why can't I lean into some

24:37

of the personality Aspects

24:39

that I have to bring my neighbour

24:41

content to life ? I keep alluding

24:44

back to online

24:46

platforms like Instagram and YouTube

24:48

, because there is so , there are

24:50

so many ideas

24:52

and nuggets that we can pull out To

24:55

either underpin our enablement content

24:57

or overlay on top of it . So

25:00

, for example , I'm a big fan

25:02

of creating video content . I've set

25:04

up my little space in here . It's a six by six

25:06

box . It's about just over 3.3

25:08

meters square . I've got

25:10

acoustic paneling on my wall as well , yeah

25:12

, but I've I've set my space up in

25:15

a way that it's not just my workspace

25:17

, it's also my content

25:19

creation space as well . So

25:21

, even if I'm creating enablement for

25:23

Evanti , I will use this space

25:25

to create that content and

25:27

Constantly teaching myself . Are there

25:30

new things that I can bring in . There

25:32

are a couple of youtubers that I follow . I

25:34

take how they put their content

25:36

together and apply that to my enablement

25:38

content as well , but I'm forever

25:40

trying to sharpen my skills . You

25:43

know the fact . We're talking about it in a

25:45

meeting today . Seven habits

25:47

of highly effective people . Stephen Covey sharpening

25:49

the saw number seven .

25:51

Podcast episode . I worked for Stephen Covey

25:53

while in college . By the way , I

25:56

got paid for a brilliant education . Yes

25:59

, he was an old phenomenal my

26:01

alma mater . Wow

26:03

before he went big time , you

26:05

know .

26:07

I've got an idea , paul . I think we probably should

26:09

switch the tables on this . I think you should be interviewed

26:11

next .

26:13

I Do

26:15

I enjoy doing podcasts ? I've

26:17

got , I've got one coming up that I'm

26:20

looking forward to , but you're right , it is fun . It's fun being

26:22

on both sides of the mic , right ? So it is

26:24

absolutely absolutely . We're

26:27

coming close to time , but I think we have

26:29

one more because we want to end with

26:31

our usual , you know chance for you to drop some non-enablement

26:34

related knowledge on everyone . But I

26:37

know another thing that's important to you is Leading

26:40

with stories . You talk earlier

26:42

about that . We still Communicate

26:45

in the three basic ways we've always

26:48

done . So how

26:50

do we sharpen our skills for

26:52

not only hearing but listening

26:54

? I think that'd be a good one to go out on great

26:56

point .

26:57

You , If you think about where we

26:59

are now , you think about the

27:01

world of selling . That

27:04

whole world has changed . Buyers

27:06

don't want to buy from salespeople Not

27:08

anymore , right ? There is so much

27:10

content out there that buyers will make up their

27:13

own mind . So what

27:15

is it we need to do as

27:17

sellers ? If you

27:19

think about our sellers , what they

27:21

need to do is , rather than telling

27:24

them speeds and feeds and all

27:26

those boring things , why

27:29

not lead with a story ? Stories

27:32

are timeless and if they're told

27:34

correctly , those stories

27:36

will stick in your mind . A

27:39

friend of mine was telling me a great story

27:41

around when

27:45

he bought a brand new television I

27:48

think it was a 65-inch television and

27:50

his son , I think , was only three at the time . So

27:53

he bought this TV . He was with his son his

27:55

son it was bigger than his kid . Yeah , exactly

27:57

, that's right . So he

28:00

and his son unpacked this TV , they set

28:02

it all up and they turned it

28:04

on and his three-year-old son walked up

28:06

to the screen , put his

28:08

index finger on the screen , went

28:12

to swipe the image that he could see on

28:14

this huge 65-inch TV and

28:18

then he went to pinch and zoom

28:20

and none of those attributes worked

28:23

on the TV . And he turned around to his dad and said

28:25

Dad , it doesn't work . Yeah

28:27

, and

28:30

every time I talk about that story , people

28:32

remember it . Why ? Because

28:34

it's relevant , but

28:37

also there's an element of

28:39

being able to push the mental envelope

28:41

of some of the and challenge where

28:43

we are today . So if we think about the

28:46

technology , it's not about the technology

28:48

. That's not the end game . A lot

28:50

of it is around human skill

28:53

and how we improve through

28:55

technology , the skill of

28:57

being a human . One

29:00

of the things that I will leave you with is you

29:03

wear typically the masters of our own destiny and

29:05

to be able to sharpen our skills , to sharpen

29:08

the sore , if you will . One of the things that I've

29:10

learned to do is block out two hours every

29:12

Friday with its mine that

29:14

I can spend time sharpening my skills

29:17

. It means that that time

29:19

I can choose to use to do whatever I want

29:21

. It also means that other people can't block time

29:24

or book meetings during my

29:26

sharpen the skill and sharpen the sore

29:28

time .

29:29

So again , we still communicate in

29:31

those three basic ways .

29:32

Going back to Covey Correct

29:34

, exactly , that's my time , it's ring fence and it's

29:36

mine . But again back to those three ways

29:39

in which we communicate . We haven't

29:41

evolved from that . So how

29:43

do we embrace technology to be able to

29:45

up , level our game , to ensure

29:47

that we're sharpening our skills Again

29:50

for the skills of being listened

29:53

, listen to the skills of

29:55

listening as opposed

29:57

to the skills . No , forget that . Cut

29:59

that . Sorry , paul . Let

30:02

me just pretty quick revert back to

30:04

that . Sure , so let's think about how

30:06

we can utilize technology to

30:09

ensure that we level up those

30:11

three basic ways of how we

30:13

communicate .

30:15

This has been a lot of fun , you know , I can

30:17

tell there's a reason why next to your LinkedIn

30:19

profile you have both a clapboard

30:21

and a microphone .

30:25

It does . Thanks , Paul .

30:27

One thing I know you're a big reader and we don't

30:29

have time to get into it too deeply , but if you haven't

30:31

read storytelling

30:34

what great sellers do by Mike Bosworth

30:36

, I think you'd really enjoy

30:38

it . My biggest

30:41

takeaway from that was that research

30:43

has shown as humans we are hardwired

30:46

to respond to

30:48

stories differently . Stories

30:50

light up different areas of our brain . Scientists

30:53

think it's because for most of our history

30:55

as humankind it

30:58

was all oral communication , oral

31:00

traditions and stories to

31:02

convey those things from generation to generation . Anyway

31:04

, you'd probably really enjoy the book because

31:07

it talks a lot about some of the things you're interested in .

31:10

Outstanding .

31:12

Want to give you a chance . Like I said , this may have an enablement . It

31:14

doesn't have to at all . You're given the gift

31:16

of time travel . You can go back

31:18

to any version of young

31:20

Paul and coach yourself

31:23

, but only in one area . What

31:25

would you choose ?

31:28

Wow , I would probably go back to my 19

31:30

year old self and I

31:32

would say to 19 year old

31:35

North take calculated

31:37

risks earlier . Take

31:41

calculated risks earlier .

31:43

I would probably choose the best choice , although when I was 19 , that

31:45

would have been the greatest results . I

31:50

didn't know half as much as I thought I did . That's

31:52

for sure . All right

31:55

, well , thank you so much for taking time

31:57

to do this with us , and

31:59

thank you to everyone who's been listening

32:01

and investing 30 minutes of your time

32:03

. Again

32:06

, thank our sponsors of this episode

32:08

, alego , and wish

32:10

everyone a safe and fun

32:12

two weeks until we're back with you in new

32:14

episode and a new guest .

32:16

Thanks for joining this episode of Stories

32:18

from the Trenches . For more sales enablement

32:20

resources , be sure to join the Sales Enablement

32:22

Society at sesocietyorg

32:25

. That's sesocietyorg

32:29

.