0:00

I read that man's

0:02

wife's laughter is

0:05

one of the most sounds that

0:07

lights up the brain the most. Really, I

0:09

mean, I'm making it up, but you know, I hear a lot

0:11

of science in my head, and that's one

0:13

of the latest studies to come out in your head. Yeah,

0:16

oh, well, can I ask you a question?

0:19

Yeah, I can give you an answer. Most people say

0:21

in an ideal mate, you know, they

0:23

want someone with a good sense of humor, right,

0:26

And a lot of people have pointed out in the

0:28

past few years that when women

0:30

say it, they mean I want a man who makes

0:32

me laugh, okay, And when men say

0:34

it, they mean I want a woman who laughs

0:36

at my jokes, right, not that they want

0:38

a woman who makes them laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah

0:40

yeah. And in fact, some women say

0:43

if they are too funny, men will

0:45

break up with them. I've heard this, and

0:47

so I just want I mean, you know, I like

0:49

to think I'm pretty funny and that that

0:51

was an attraction for you. But I just wonder

0:54

what you thought about that as a member of the male

0:56

species. No, I mean, I think

0:58

both are very important. Humor

1:01

compatibility is a huge part

1:04

of I think a well balanced relationship.

1:06

And if now this is for some. For

1:08

others, there's like one wacky partner and

1:10

one like business partner. And that's fine too

1:13

for some if that's what you're looking for. But

1:16

first of all, if women are

1:18

funny and the men that they're with don't

1:21

like that they're funny, buy good

1:23

riddens, because that's a lousy partnership anyway.

1:25

Why would you, you know, it be like

1:27

audience, ye, scene partner?

1:29

I guess I don't even think necessarily need to be a scene

1:32

partner, but you should just appreciate that

1:34

you're with someone who makes you laugh if you like to laugh.

1:36

I think these guys probably just don't like to laugh. They just

1:38

only like to have input, and

1:40

that speaks to a whole other issue

1:43

going on in their heads, where they're like, I

1:45

don't want output, I only want input,

1:48

you know, I don't know, I don't know if there but to me

1:50

personally, yeah, I would much

1:53

rather have someone

1:55

that I can laugh with and at

1:58

and four versa.

2:00

Like. I know, I wouldn't be happy

2:02

with someone who didn't laugh at anything I ever said,

2:05

no, But I also wouldn't be happy with someone

2:08

who, you know, it's kind of dull,

2:10

and not even dull, but just like humor

2:13

wasn't their thing. I guess it's just frustrating

2:15

to feel that I'm not with you. But

2:17

you know, just casting my mind back

2:20

to my youthful days of dating, Yeah,

2:24

that you know, I thought, oh,

2:26

well, this is like a trait that I find

2:28

important and that I like

2:30

about myself that I have. I think

2:33

I'm funny. Yeah, so I'm trying to joke

2:35

around and that dudes would be like,

2:37

oh, that's a like there's

2:39

a competition or something for

2:41

who's funniest, And if I'm

2:43

funny, it doesn't like it makes them

2:46

less than Yeah, textbook

2:48

insecurity, right, I mean, is

2:50

that accurate? I mean, I don't know. You don't. You don't have

2:52

that problem. So I guess you're not the right person. Yeah.

2:54

No, nobody's ever not laughed at me,

2:57

I know, right, Yeah, you're just constantly

2:59

killing it out here. I mean I've had

3:01

some Um No, I meant that you don't have a problem with

3:04

with me being funny or a woman being funny around

3:06

you, No, not at all. Most most

3:08

of the people in my life are funny women. I

3:10

know. I think that funny women are delightful

3:13

thing to have a party in your life. Yeah,

3:15

Well, if you like laugh and then

3:18

stay tuned. We're gonna do an episode

3:20

right now that's gonna have a lot

3:22

of laughter in it, hopefully, I hope. So,

3:24

because y'all, this is a weird one. This,

3:26

I mean, it really fits the ridiculous Moniker

3:29

I think. I really don't know if this is a

3:31

funny story or kind of a

3:33

sad one or something in between. It's

3:35

a little slippery, it's a

3:37

little heavy, but it's a little

3:39

just like we both I rolly, just like what

3:42

the hell am I listening to? Because

3:45

this isn't history from a long time ago. This is a very

3:47

modern story of love, love

3:50

question mark. I guess at

3:52

least it's a story of marriage. This

3:55

is the story of Ron Shepherd

3:57

from Somerton, England, who

3:59

got so worn out after his eighth

4:02

marriage that he had to retire

4:04

and move into an assisted living home.

4:07

But his story is going to lead us into a whole

4:09

discussion about marriage and its meaning and

4:11

what makes people so dang obsessed with it

4:13

sometimes. So if

4:16

you take this tune to be your loftly Bound

4:18

theme song, then go ahead and say

4:20

I do I do heyla

4:23

friends, come listen well, Elia

4:25

and Diana got some stories to tell. There's

4:28

no match making a romantic tips.

4:30

It's just about ridiculous relationships.

4:33

A lover might be any type of person at

4:35

all, and abstract concert a concrete

4:37

wall. But if there's a story where the

4:39

second glance, we'll ridiculous

4:42

romance. A production of iHeartRadio.

4:47

Ron Shepherd is the UK's

4:49

self proclaimed most married

4:52

man. Well, this guy has recently

4:54

retired from the marriage game after

4:56

his eighth wife, as

4:59

Stephen Nolan from the BBC says, quote,

5:01

that's two more than Henry. The eighth managed

5:04

say number is Elizabeth Taylor, and only

5:06

one fewer than Ja Ja Gabor, who

5:09

should all be subjects on our show. By now we'll get

5:11

we'll get there. But eight

5:14

wives deep Ron says he's

5:16

done. He's throwing in the wedding towels,

5:19

he's given up the ship, he's

5:21

the relationship. Of course, he's

5:23

folding like a chief, which,

5:26

of course we can assume he has at least eight. Well,

5:29

as always, we have to dig back through history

5:32

to get the full story here, so let's

5:34

look at Ron's series of

5:36

why deep Breath. Ron

5:39

was born in nineteen forty nine.

5:41

He had his first wedding in nineteen sixty

5:43

six two Margaret, and

5:46

all we know is that they had three kids

5:48

together and then divorce after two

5:50

years. Oh wow, so they got right on it, I

5:52

know, right, I'm like, was she already pregnant or did they

5:54

just like snap snap snap. Five

5:57

years later, he married Jeanette

6:00

in nineteen seventy three, and this marriage

6:02

only lasted one year. Daily

6:05

Mail says Ron described this union

6:07

as a quote business transaction.

6:10

Oh I really wish I had more information

6:12

too, Like what was the what was this

6:14

business track? Were they like exchanging tracts

6:17

of lands between family England?

6:20

Who knows? She just wanted to be like written into

6:22

the will or something, right, I'm very confused.

6:25

In nineteen seventy six, Ron married

6:27

Leslie. They had two kids together,

6:30

and he thought Leslie was for Keaton. Yeah,

6:32

that's the last marriage. He was really in

6:34

love with Leslie. But after

6:36

five years they started arguing

6:39

a lot and their marriage ended

6:41

up falling apart. Oh, ma'am sadly see,

6:43

that's why you got to be arguing the whole time. Oh

6:45

there you go. Then it doesn't feel like anything's any

6:47

difference now. I actually hate arguing.

6:50

I know, I mean too. In nineteen eighty two,

6:52

when Ron was in his early thirties,

6:54

he met an eighteen year old

6:56

band named Kathy. She

6:58

became wife number four. Oh wow, I

7:00

mean yeah, eighteen,

7:03

early thirties, classic early

7:05

midlife crisis. I guess that does

7:08

kind of yeah, it does kind of sound like that. Well,

7:10

they had another kid together. That just six

7:13

kids for Ron, if you're keeping score at

7:15

home, and they divorced after two

7:17

years, and he said Kathy was

7:19

a rebound relationship after

7:22

Leslie. I mean, do you really marry

7:24

the rebound? Ron doesn't know how to

7:26

rebound? Yeah, I mean I totally

7:29

get, like, I mean, eighteen's too young, but

7:31

I get like, you know, you get divorced, you go date

7:33

someone way younger, and then you

7:35

realize before you get married that's

7:37

not going to work out, right, I would think

7:40

so yeah, but I guess you just like pop

7:42

the question right away. Well maybe at

7:44

prom he

7:47

wanted to celebrate high school graduation right.

7:49

Oh no, Well

7:52

they got divorced when Kathy was twenty, so she still

7:54

got her whole life out of Hello girl. Thank god.

7:58

Well, after he got off the rebound

8:00

with the two year marriage to Kathy, he

8:02

met Sue at a bingo hall in

8:05

nineteen eighty six, and this

8:07

seemed like a much better match. I mean, Ron

8:09

was in his late thirties, Sue was around the same

8:11

age, and while he was

8:14

quote not swept off his feet

8:16

by her, they went ahead and got

8:18

married and had two sons together. And this

8:20

marriage lasted eleven years,

8:24

So this seemed like a much more standard

8:26

marriage with the same age. We don't really like each other

8:28

that much. We had a couple of kids. We

8:30

don't really like each other. It's

8:33

Taylor's old as time. Hell, I hope he

8:35

in the right at the at the altar,

8:38

He's like, Sue, you never swept

8:40

me off my feed, right, but I

8:42

guess I'll do it, And she's

8:44

like, ah romantic. Well,

8:47

in nineteen ninety seven, she

8:49

quote threw him out, and

8:52

honestly, of course, we only ever talked to Ron in

8:54

these interviews. It's mostly tabloids like Daily

8:57

Mail and The Mirror and stuff like that. I

8:59

wish there was one information about why she threw

9:01

him out, but we can only be left to speculate

9:04

threw him out. Maybe he

9:06

just said that too me. He was like, well, Sue, I'm

9:09

really not very impressed by you. You don't do

9:11

anything for me, but I'll see you after work.

9:13

Every time she says something, he's like, see this is

9:16

whydden's sweet me off my feet back

9:18

in nineteen eighty six at the Bingo

9:20

Hall. So now that is five

9:23

marriages and five divorces for

9:25

Ron. It was time to get serious,

9:27

okay. He couldn't just keep doing these

9:29

little trial marriages and stuff. He had

9:32

to find someone real. I mean, he had his teenage

9:35

wedding, he got married very early when he was seventeen

9:37

eighteen. He had his business

9:40

marriage whatever that was all about what business.

9:42

But that one time he married Leslie that was supposed

9:44

to be for love, right, then he tried

9:46

marrying a girl half his age, and

9:48

then maybe he even tried marrying someone that he just wasn't

9:50

that into. Right, It's like he tried it all.

9:53

What else was out there? What makes

9:55

a successful marriage? Ron has not

9:57

figured out. I've literally tried everything. At this

9:59

point. Well, he had exhausted

10:01

pretty much all the women in the UK, so

10:03

he decided that he was going to go look overseas,

10:06

that's right. So when he was in Singapore,

10:09

he happened to meet a little lady named

10:11

Usha, and in nineteen ninety nine.

10:13

Of course they got married. Of

10:15

course that's what you do when you meet a woman,

10:18

you marry her immediately by a ring. And

10:20

that marriage lasted four years.

10:22

But this time the divorce part

10:25

was definitely Ron's fault, all right. Usha

10:27

found out somehow that Ron

10:29

had cheated on her while he was

10:32

entirely and Usha was like,

10:34

hell, no, I'm not taking that.

10:36

That was the end of that marriage, so she divorced

10:38

him in two thousand and three. A

10:41

year later, Ron married a Thai

10:43

woman named one. Oh my god, although

10:46

this is it is unclear if this is the

10:48

same woman that he cheated on Usha with. This

10:50

might be a completely different Thai woman that he

10:52

met, I said another because it's

10:55

not mentioned, and I feel like they

10:57

would mention it. Yeah, he's not shy

10:59

about the detail, right Or if you're a

11:01

good tabloid reporter, certainly that would be your

11:03

first question would be like, oh, a Thai woman? Is

11:05

it the same one? Yeah? So probably

11:07

not a different Thai woman altogether. Well,

11:10

Juan and Ron one

11:13

and Ron, oh my god perfect. Can

11:15

you imagine the wedding invitations? It

11:17

would have to be one and Ron dot com and

11:20

dot Wan and Ron

11:22

at the nott dot com. Anyway,

11:25

One and Ron moved to the UK together.

11:28

But yeah, I guess One was just not

11:30

a fan of like tea and biscuits and

11:32

cold rainy days. Because

11:34

she left Ron to return to Bangkok

11:37

after only ten months together. It's

11:39

just a very short marriage. Shortest

11:41

yet. Yeah, Okay, so it's two thousand

11:44

and four. Ron has walked down

11:46

the aisle seven times

11:49

and he has I don't know what you said,

11:51

the walk down the divorce aisle, just as

11:53

many I kind of think you should have a good divorce.

11:55

There should be like you have. I mean, technically you have to walk

11:57

down the courtroom aisle, right, that's true. You

12:00

could have like a friend like you know, they could actually

12:02

the spouse. You should walk up the aisle together

12:04

and they give you back to like your family,

12:07

just literal reverse wedding. That

12:10

would be awesome, and then you can, like terrible.

12:12

You can do

12:13

a little tends

12:18

on how acrimonious this divorce they

12:20

have to write like reverse vows.

12:23

I've promised to never call you after

12:25

ten PM. I think that

12:28

our life together leading up at this point it's

12:30

just like made me a worse person. And it's

12:32

really made you a worse person too, and I can't

12:34

wait to grow into someone else without you, And

12:37

then they have to say, I don't,

12:39

I don't, I don't know. I feel

12:41

like a divorce party would actually do pretty

12:43

well, and then you could. It's kind of like you could

12:45

have like instead of getting gifts, you have like a yard

12:47

Dale. Everyone

12:51

who comes gets something of yours.

12:53

That's right, they get their blender back or whatever

12:55

they gave you. So he's

12:58

been divorced seven times now, he's five

13:00

years old. He just had his shortest marriage

13:02

yet of ten months to one. Something

13:05

wasn't working here for Ron No. But

13:08

then he met Wang

13:10

Platino, a twenty

13:12

five year old woman from the Philippines.

13:15

They met online just a few

13:17

months after his divorce to one,

13:20

and Ron flew out to the Philippines to meet

13:22

her right away. The Daily

13:24

Mail says they quote clicked

13:27

instantly and went back to

13:29

the UK to get married on the Isle

13:31

of Wight in November of two thousand

13:33

and four. And y'all, this

13:35

this really seemed like it. Years

13:39

went by year after year their marriage continued.

13:42

After thirty eight years since

13:44

his first marriage, had he finally

13:47

found the one oh

13:49

Ron Now. In January of twenty

13:51

fourteen, ten years into their

13:53

marriage, Ron said Wang was

13:56

his quote true love and

13:58

soulmates, and in February

14:01

of that year, he was inspired to publish his

14:03

autobiography about the search for love,

14:05

called The Lord of the Wedding Ring.

14:08

Oh just cute.

14:09

That's trying to imagine the quote if

14:12

he's just like, oh, yes, we've had a wedding

14:14

once, but what about second weddings? What

14:17

about what? That's

14:21

cute? Well, he told the

14:23

BBC in an interview, quote,

14:25

I believe marriage should be for

14:27

life. I just didn't find the

14:29

right person and for what it's worth. In

14:32

his audio interviews, he kind of

14:34

sounds like Wallace

14:37

and Grommit. Wallace, I guess,

14:39

oh my god. Really his accent, Yeah,

14:41

it's kind of delightful. Oh,

14:43

Ron, Well, he sounds like he might be kind

14:45

of cute, a cute older guy.

14:47

Well, he says he does not regret any of his marriages,

14:50

quote because I have my eight children,

14:53

so you know he got something good out of

14:55

each other. Sure, So while Ron

14:57

is in this happy place, let's

15:00

look at what he believes led him to

15:02

kind of go through all these marriages. Because

15:04

he's just kind of been hopping in and out of the

15:06

chapel for years now, and

15:09

according to him, he really has

15:11

been searching for true love this whole time.

15:13

He says his parents were married for sixty

15:15

one years, and he always wanted

15:17

something similar, that steady, that long.

15:20

Yeah, but he did feel

15:22

that he had hurt people in his process of getting

15:24

married and divorce. He said in an interview,

15:26

quote, I regret what I've done. I've

15:29

been selfish, I've upset people, I've

15:31

upset my children. But at the same time

15:33

they have forgiven me. Ultimately,

15:36

he says to the Mirror that his constant search

15:39

for love quote stemmed from

15:41

sexual abuse he suffered as a child.

15:44

See The trauma that he dealt with left

15:46

him quote constantly craving companionship,

15:49

and his book The Lord of the Wedding Rings

15:52

focuses heavily on this too. The back cover

15:54

of it says that quote, he has

15:56

hidden a frightening secret that ruined his

15:58

childhood and blighted him as adult relationships.

16:01

Ron suffered years of sexual abuse at

16:03

the hands of a family friend, a local

16:05

businessman and respected counselor.

16:08

Oh Man. Yeah, he said, the abuser

16:10

hand picked him at nine years old. Quote

16:12

simply for being a child from a poor family.

16:15

That guy would reward him with food and

16:17

small amounts of money. Yikes,

16:19

what a piece of shit. Yes, absolutely,

16:22

and kind of get to understand

16:25

sort of like why Ron has a different

16:27

view of relationships than made the

16:29

worst people. Yeah, yeah, I

16:31

mean especially nine years old, like,

16:34

yeah, the amount of things that

16:36

you're not quite sure of and

16:38

yeah, very turned away, like I

16:41

don't know, you can just be shaped in such a crazy

16:43

way. That's really sad. And because

16:45

of this person's power

16:48

over him and Ron being you know, a younger

16:50

kids from a poor family in this small town and

16:52

stuff, he just he never said anything.

16:54

He didn't feel like he could right between

16:57

the shame and the fear and retaliation

16:59

all this stuff, well he just I

17:01

mean it says right there in the quote that it's a respected

17:03

counselor yeah, and local businessman.

17:06

I mean that's exactly the kind of person

17:09

who is so well poised to abuse

17:12

people because they have a good reputation.

17:14

It's going to be very hard for you to be believed.

17:17

People will think, oh, well they're successful, so somebody

17:19

is jealous or they're trying to get a pay

17:21

day or what, or just be

17:24

famous for a minute at the expense of this

17:26

person's reputation and stuff. So it becomes

17:28

really hard to say, to tell the truth,

17:31

I mean, And that's on top of the trauma itself,

17:34

making it very hard to speak because that's the

17:36

trauma itself can take of many, many

17:39

years to get through enough that you

17:41

can talk about it, right, and people really discount

17:43

that. I really hate seeing that. But people are like, oh,

17:45

when I was sixteen and they're like fifty now and

17:48

everybody's like, well, why don't you say something? Then yeah,

17:51

you act like it's so easy, and it's really not right.

17:54

I mean, I'd like to do something

17:56

embarrassing, like I, you know, open the wrong

17:58

side of that can in the kitchen and

18:01

I'm like, I'm not going to tell anyone, but I

18:03

did that. This is between me and God.

18:05

Yeah, you know, I know that's kind

18:07

of a silly comparison, of course it is. But the

18:10

idea being that, like, our brains do have

18:12

something in them that are like, if you feel like you should

18:14

be ashamed of something, you lock it

18:16

in. That's right, right, that's right. So

18:19

Ron said, as a results of

18:21

this horrible person in his

18:24

childhood. He said, quote, I turned

18:26

to women. I felt safe in the company

18:28

of women, and after

18:30

being silent for so long, he

18:32

claims that Wang helped him face all

18:35

of this past trauma and start to

18:37

get over it. Oh good, But sadly

18:40

this marriage with Wang did not last

18:43

either. Within two years

18:45

of these interviews, Ron and Wang

18:47

were getting a divorce, but this

18:50

time it was a little different. It ended

18:52

in a restraining order and

18:54

yet another fiance for old

18:57

Ron. So we will come back with

18:59

more about that right after these words.

19:06

Welcome back everyone. We are gathered here today

19:08

to hear the story of Ron Shepherd

19:10

and his eight wives. Eight

19:13

wives of Ron Shepherd. Well, it

19:15

seemed, you know, like Ron and Wang, we're a happy

19:18

couple. Ron had finally found the soul mates

19:20

that he'd spend his whole life searching for. But

19:23

in twenty sixteen, everything started

19:25

to fall apart. For

19:27

his part, Ron was suffering

19:29

from a growing number of health problems,

19:32

including a diagnosis of Parkinson's

19:35

and Louis body dementia, right,

19:37

which are alone too horrible things

19:39

to deal with. And then together you're like Jesus

19:42

and like, we don't know specifically what happened

19:44

that caused their separation. But

19:47

we do know that after Ron and Wang separated,

19:50

Ron started trying to win her back, and

19:53

maybe he's trying a little

19:55

too hard because he sent

19:57

her letters, you sent her presents,

20:00

into her Facebook messages. He just bombarded

20:02

her trying to win her back. According to

20:04

Metro, Yeah, and then Wang then

20:07

filed harassment charges against

20:09

him because all of this was just so much.

20:11

He really would not let up and not leave her alone,

20:13

no matter how many times she said, no, Ron,

20:16

you know, leave me alone, and that should be all you need to hear.

20:19

Ron was arrested after she filed these charges.

20:22

She said that she had to quit her church

20:24

that she joined with him, where she had quote

20:27

made true friends, and I had to leave them

20:29

all behind. That's really

20:31

inappropriate. I mean, to push someone to the point where

20:33

they have to abandon part of

20:35

their life because you just you're you're two

20:37

in it. Yeah. Well, even after

20:40

this arrest, Ron continued

20:42

to pester her, she says, and then he

20:44

moved into intimidation tactics, allegedly

20:46

telling her quote it was ninety

20:49

nine percent likely that the case would be thrown

20:51

out and she could be arrested for perjury.

20:54

That's a straight up

20:56

threat. You know, if you keep saying these

20:58

things about it, I know you be arrested. You'll be arrested

21:01

at us I don't know. Yeah, come

21:03

on row. He

21:06

did plead guilty in court to

21:08

harassment. He got a six hundred pound

21:10

fine and a two year restraining

21:12

order saying that he could not directly

21:15

nor indirectly contact Wang.

21:17

The district judge told him quote or

21:20

experiences of matrimony in the past, it

21:23

seems you were unable to accept and

21:25

give up that this is a relationship

21:28

at an end. You won't be

21:30

the first or last who's been unable

21:33

to deal with the effects of a relationship

21:35

breakdown. The way you conducted

21:37

yourself did cause actual

21:39

and real distress to missus Shepherd.

21:42

I'm just assuming every judge in England

21:45

is a Charles Dickens character. Oh yeah, he had to

21:47

put on his big powdered wig before you do any

21:49

of this for the judgment. Full

21:51

on haze in the room from how much

21:53

powder is coming off at speculation

21:56

station speculation Now. Ron

21:58

did say in response, quote, I would

22:00

just like to apologize to my wife

22:02

and apologize to the court. And

22:04

it seems that he honored his restraining order.

22:08

Their divorce did eventually go through. Um,

22:11

so I guess I don't know. I guess he was just so into

22:13

her and he really thought that she was going to

22:15

be the one. He just could not let

22:18

it go yet I gotta

22:20

like persist. Clearly, the guy's got

22:22

issues with being

22:24

with someone. It's very important to him,

22:26

right. Yeah. Now, we did find

22:29

one tweet from Ron on this subject

22:31

in his now inactive Twitter account,

22:33

where he told a friend quote, Wing

22:36

accused me of cheating in the media,

22:39

she was cheating with her ex fiance

22:42

for four years when I got

22:45

Parkinson's call kettle

22:47

black. Wow. So she

22:50

said that he had cheated on her. Yeah,

22:53

maybe as the impetus for the divorce

22:55

maybe or something. Yeah, And he's like, lady,

22:57

I got Parkinson's. I'm like in a wheel

23:00

chair most of the time. Not

23:02

that someone in a wheelchair can't cheat on someone,

23:04

but he's like an old man who's like having

23:06

a hard time physically moving through

23:09

the world. He's not cheating on her. Yeah, I'm not going to

23:11

bars every night trying to like pick

23:13

up some ladies. Right. Not that again,

23:15

not that these circumstances preclude the

23:17

possibility of cheating, but it seems

23:19

very unlikely. And the fact

23:22

that he suggested pseudo

23:25

privately, I mean, you know, it's Twitter, so

23:27

it's not really. But he was just tweeting

23:29

back to a friend who was asking how he was doing. He's

23:31

like, well, what, she started cheating on me as soon as she

23:33

found out I at Parkinson's. Look,

23:37

no it's not, and of course who knows.

23:39

But if we take it at face value,

23:41

that sucks, right. He

23:44

also then wrote on Twitter, quote

23:46

thirteen years then walked out

23:48

on me for a better life when diagnosed

23:50

with Louis body dementia,

23:52

Crystal is very caring and loving,

23:56

So yeah, that's true. That's pretty

23:58

cold wing for him to get,

24:00

you know, a crazy diagnosis, and she's

24:02

like, I'm to be hied down with

24:05

some sick man. This is something for

24:07

me that's really important in

24:09

the marriage vows thing. And of

24:11

course there's all kinds of reasons that marriages can fall

24:14

apart, But to me, I'm like, when you ask

24:17

someone if you want to marry them,

24:19

you've considered your whole life together

24:21

and all the risks and possibilities that come

24:23

with that, and that includes, you

24:25

know, if you become incapacitated

24:29

to the point where I have to care for you. I'd

24:31

rather stay with you through that. And

24:34

if you haven't really thought of that, then

24:37

probably don't get married, right, And

24:39

it's a sad fact. I guess statistically

24:42

speaking that more often than

24:44

not it's men who leave women who get diagnet

24:47

of terrible diseases. Yeah,

24:50

but it either way, it's really

24:52

cold because you're basically abandoning

24:54

someone to like pain

24:57

and possible death alone. Yeah,

25:00

after they've given you probably the best years

25:02

of their lives. Right. I don't know about Ron's best

25:04

years maybe, but still that's

25:07

just really sad and it would feel harsh,

25:09

like I'd be like, you're a monster. It's

25:12

making me think of another famous shepherd,

25:15

Jack Shepherd from from

25:17

Lost and when he

25:20

married Julie Bowen because

25:23

she was having a back surgery

25:26

and he was her spinal surgeon and he was

25:28

telling her fiance, hey,

25:30

you know, she might never walk again, is

25:33

like, oh, whoa is she gonna need like help go

25:35

into the bathroom and stuff. Jack was like yeah,

25:38

dude, and the guy was like, okay,

25:40

boy, and then he just disappeared and

25:43

then she ended up marrying her spinal surgeon

25:45

who saved her and she did end up being able to walk again,

25:47

so that guy was extra dumb. Yeah, idiot,

25:49

And she married Jack, which talk about a doomed

25:52

marriage from the start, because in episode

25:54

six, if you're hang

25:57

on, that's what this episode's

25:59

about. Next podcast, Different

26:01

podcasts, different podcasts. But

26:04

I do worry, like when you hear about men who like won't

26:06

change diapers or something because they're

26:08

like, it's just gross. Yeah, I'm like, it

26:10

is gross, absolutely, But I

26:12

mean one day your wife might need you to change her

26:14

diapers, you know what I mean? Like that can happen to

26:16

an adult, and you have to be prepared. And

26:19

if you you can't won't do it for a tiny baby.

26:22

How am I supposed to think you're gonna do it for me? You know?

26:24

Or I don't know. I just would feel safe

26:26

around somebody who felt like they couldn't ever clean

26:29

up a mess like that. That's why I have dedicated

26:31

our entire savings fund to replacing

26:34

pieces of you one by one with bionic

26:36

parts. But eventually you're just

26:38

an indestructible robot. Okay,

26:41

I mean my dream that's kind of cool, cyborg.

26:45

One day, I

26:47

hope you get like cyborg like cool

26:50

tech. Oh yeah, you'll totally

26:52

have like a laser cannon in your arm,

26:54

um teleportation technology,

26:57

a food synthesizer. Who nice.

27:00

Maybe I'll finally know what it's like to see without glasses.

27:03

Oh no, Actually, one of the problems

27:06

with the technology is that you retain your

27:08

vision as it is now. So I'm

27:10

so sorry. It's the one thing I

27:12

can I can fly from a jet

27:14

pack on my feet, sure, but I can't see

27:17

ten feet in front of me around glasses. But we'll get

27:19

you some really nice glasses. Okay,

27:21

wow, all right, as long as they're really nice, yea, make

27:24

sure they look at all right. Well,

27:26

anyway back to Ron. So

27:29

Ron is talking about how Wing

27:32

walked out on him when

27:34

he was diagnosed with Louis body dementia, and

27:36

that's really cruel and mean. And then he says, Crystal

27:39

is very caring and loving. Now, who in

27:41

the hill is Crystal in

27:43

the conversation? I've not heard her name

27:45

yet. Well, if you thought that Ron's

27:47

quest for love was over after Wing,

27:50

then you have not been paying attention to run my

27:53

friends. Come on, there's no way he

27:55

gives up at this point. Now,

27:58

unsurprisingly, the story doesn't

28:00

exactly get more romantic

28:02

as it goes on. Um. Crystal

28:05

Lelek was a twenty five

28:07

year old woman from the Philippines. They

28:10

it's definitely Ron's in that. Um

28:13

was it dazed and confused kind of mentality. And

28:15

I keep getting older, They're always

28:17

twenty five or show I was going to say, is Leo

28:19

era? Oh yeah,

28:23

well Ron had actually met Crystal

28:25

years earlier when he was married to his

28:28

seventh wife, Juan That was the

28:30

one who married him in the UK and then dipped

28:32

back home to the Philippines ten months later to

28:34

Thailand. Yeah.

28:36

Um. Now, at the time that they met, Crystal

28:39

was only sixteen years old, and

28:41

apparently Ron and Crystal and Wan hung

28:44

out all the time. It's like a local friend

28:46

of hers. I don't know, age gap

28:48

weird, weird.

28:51

They lost touch, and after

28:54

Ron and Wing's divorce started going

28:56

through, he decided to look her up. When

28:59

they connected, he flew to the Philippines

29:01

to spend Christmas with her, and on

29:04

New Year's Eve he proposed

29:06

to Crystal and she said yes. Because

29:08

again, I mean, if you meet a woman, the next

29:10

logical step is to propose to her. You

29:13

celebrate the twelve Days of Christmas and

29:15

then you propose one

29:17

of those five golden rings.

29:21

Well, you know, nothing's ever easy

29:24

in the marriage department for Ron, and this

29:26

was no different because you see, Crystal was

29:28

actually already married. Oh

29:31

she said, though she was totally

29:33

going to divorce her husband. It's all

29:35

about you, Ron, I'm going to move to England

29:38

with you. So here's Ron,

29:41

sixty nine years old, suffering

29:43

from Parkinson's and other ailments, bringing

29:46

this twenty six year old woman from the Philippines

29:49

to England. And he told

29:51

Mirror, quote, this one

29:54

is real love. This is the

29:56

last one, I promise. And

29:59

Cristel said, quote, I

30:01

know what it looks like, but I am not

30:03

here for a passport. I am

30:06

not here to take advantage of Ron. Hmmm.

30:10

And apparently she also told Ron that

30:12

they could not have a physical relationship before

30:14

they got married because she was a committed

30:16

Christian. Okay, okay, I

30:18

had to wait till marriage. And Ron said,

30:21

quote, I respected that and hoped

30:23

at least she would become my career, but

30:26

she just became more distant. She

30:28

didn't get his jokes. She also did

30:31

just didn't pay much attention to him. He

30:33

said, quote she'd just sit there taking

30:35

selfies and I'd have to shout her

30:37

name just to get her to look at me. God, do you

30:40

just feel I mean, you can see this happening

30:42

so clearly. I feel like that also makes me

30:44

think her name maybe was not Crystal. I mean I

30:47

feel like maybe she had a totally different name, and she'd

30:49

be like, who is he talking to. Well, they applied

30:52

for a carer's visa to let her

30:54

stay in the country. She would be you know, his caretaker

30:57

basically, and would be allowed to stay. And

30:59

then shortly after that, Ron said he probably should

31:02

have realized something was wrong because she quote

31:04

lost her engagement ring and

31:06

then she just started going out at nights and making

31:09

new friends. After her

31:11

visa was denied and

31:13

she went to Ron and said she had to go home

31:15

to the Philippines for a week, she

31:19

gave him a long look and then left,

31:21

and when he checked her room later, all

31:24

of her stuff was gone. She blocked

31:26

him on Facebook, and a friend of his and

31:28

the Philippines said that she was there

31:30

dating someone else. Dang. Yeah,

31:33

So I mean, like, you know, we all

31:35

saw this coming a long time ago,

31:38

especially like I love unprompted

31:40

she's like, well, I know what it looks

31:43

like, right, but I'm not here

31:45

for that. We'll have to say though

31:47

the fact that he was like I

31:49

hoped at least she would become my care It

31:51

seems to me like he just wants a nursemaid,

31:54

you know, like he's looking for a younger, energetic

31:57

person like take

32:00

of him. But he doesn't want to pay a nurse

32:03

a wife. Yeah, and he wants that

32:05

to double as someone who's just like fully

32:08

devoted in love to him, right, Like it's not somebody

32:10

just comes in and make sure he's doing

32:12

all right, but it's someone who's just like hanging

32:15

on his arm also and curled

32:17

up next to him while I watched TV or whatever it is

32:19

that his kind of fantasy is. He's

32:22

certainly like trying to craft a

32:24

person that I don't think exists for him

32:26

in this way, or I mean, maybe

32:29

for anyone, because I could also like maybe

32:31

Crystal, you know, definitely, I

32:34

don't know, I don't really believe those, but maybe

32:36

she was like, yeah, I fell in love with a sixty

32:38

nine year old band and I decided to

32:40

come live in the UK with him. But I don't

32:42

know if you're only twenty six and somebody's

32:45

like, hey, can you spend the next ten

32:47

to twenty years of your life? I

32:50

mean cleaning up after an old man, and that's not

32:52

something you wanted to do with your life. I could

32:54

see kind of being like, actually, I don't think I do want

32:56

to do that, you know, especially if you're not really in love.

32:58

Definitely not. And I think that's

33:00

a very hard thing to do, is to be a constant

33:03

caretaker for a person. I think that's kind

33:05

of the split. Like, you

33:07

know, I'm not going to sit here and say there's no one there's

33:09

no young person out there who's not truly

33:12

in love with a much older person that they're taking care

33:14

of. Sure, but yeah, I mean it's unlikely

33:16

that Crystals someone who

33:19

was looking for, Like, you know what, I'll

33:21

learn to love him. I'm going to curl up on his arm

33:24

and right look gaze lovingly into

33:26

his eyes, and yeah, I know he's

33:28

not here much longer. I just want to get in the best life

33:30

I get. You know, I don't know there are people with

33:32

that heart. Sure, I don't

33:34

know that Crystal is that person, but did

33:37

they definitely exist? Yeah? So all

33:39

right, Ron, come on, is that

33:41

it, buddy, are you throwing in the towel?

33:43

Now? Have you tried it? Surely

33:46

Crystal was like the last straw, like, Okay,

33:49

something's got to change here, right, I'm

33:51

seventy, I'm good. You

33:54

know that he's not good. You

33:56

know he didn't stop at this point.

33:58

Ron's got a little more fight left in him,

34:01

he said to mirror quote. As

34:03

far as I'm concerned, I'm

34:06

back on the market. I'm not

34:08

going to say I haven't already had women

34:10

contacting me. I don't know what it

34:12

is about me. Women just seem to flock

34:14

to me. I think it could be my

34:17

natural charm and charisma.

34:19

Although I've got to be honest, after all

34:21

this time, I sometimes think women

34:23

could just be too much trouble. But I

34:25

am determined not to die alone.

34:27

I refuse to end up in a home, and

34:30

I will find someone who will love

34:32

me for who I am.

34:34

Well, there's a lot to talk about in that quote right

34:37

there alone, and of course we want to know if

34:39

he's going to pull it off. Well,

34:41

place your bets and we will wrap

34:44

up Ron's story. But right after this break,

34:50

welcome back Esteemed friends,

34:52

family, romans, countrymen

34:56

to the final marriages

34:59

of Ron Shepherd. Well, at

35:01

this point, after divorcing

35:03

Wing and not marrying Crystal,

35:06

Ron had spent forty four

35:08

of his past forty eight years

35:11

married. He has

35:13

thirteen great grandchildren. He

35:15

thinks he doesn't really

35:17

know. I guess his longest marriage

35:20

was thirteen years to Wing and his

35:22

shortest was with one at just ten

35:24

months. And he told Mirror in

35:27

twenty seventeen, quote, the Tories

35:29

should get me. Didn't negotiate Brexit

35:31

after all? How many people have had as

35:33

many divorces as me? Fair

35:36

right, all right, pretty good? Well, I'm curious

35:38

how those negotiations went in those divorces.

35:41

He doesn't get into that, yeah, right, Like, I

35:43

don't know. Maybe they saw

35:45

the terms and they were like it's it's okay, we're gonna

35:48

we're already doing bad terms of this all

35:51

by yourself. Just and if you're curious too.

35:53

Ron was like a tour manager for a famous

35:55

English celebrity, like he had. He

35:57

had a good career. Okay, I don't think he was like super

36:00

healthy, nor do I think he was ever

36:02

struggling, all right, despite his many

36:04

weddings and divorces, which I guess he had enough money

36:06

for that well. Anyway, at this point he

36:08

was not done looking for the perfect

36:10

bride, and in twenty eighteen, he

36:13

thought maybe Cupid had struck

36:15

again when he met an American

36:17

woman named Rose. Oh

36:19

well, met isn't really

36:21

the right word, because he found her online. She

36:25

was thirty years old. They spoke

36:27

through email. He said, quote,

36:29

I know Rose is the one. It

36:32

doesn't matter if we haven't met, as I can

36:34

tell we are the perfect match. Age

36:36

is just numbers and I don't care. She's

36:38

half my age. She's deeply

36:40

in love with me and I am

36:42

with her. Yes see,

36:44

a girl aged thirty was just

36:47

what Ron was looking for because you see, he told

36:49

the Mirror, quote, thirty is

36:51

the perfect age because they're more mature.

36:55

He said, a lot of women were writing to him on

36:57

Facebook, but they're all so young.

37:00

But Rose Rose is thirty right,

37:02

like she's grown up a little. She knows what

37:04

she wants and the thing with Roses she

37:07

just needed to finish her nursing school

37:09

in Ghana and then she would

37:12

come to England to marry him.

37:14

She messaged Ron first,

37:17

and Ron points out again that quote.

37:19

Because of my history, a lot of women

37:21

have contacted me, he

37:23

says that she never asked for anything

37:26

from him. Quote, but I have given

37:28

her a few pounds for her grand and

37:31

I just okay, y'all, all the

37:33

red flags are going off. I mean, he's

37:35

never spoken to this person in

37:37

person. She reached

37:40

out to him first. And his whole thing where he's like

37:43

all of his many marriages, well especially

37:45

as later few marriages were very

37:47

publicized in the tabloids, and then he

37:49

wrote this book and everything, and he just put a big

37:51

sign over himself that is like, I will

37:53

marry younger women. Right, So

37:57

obviously he's getting inundated

38:00

with Facebook messages from profiles

38:02

with pictures of young women. And he's a

38:04

seventy year old man. He's probably

38:07

not great at discerning reality

38:09

from fiction on social media. Obviously

38:13

he's got a big target on his back. Yeah,

38:15

and I'm you know, you know, we have even

38:18

talked about some people

38:20

who met online, particularly during the

38:22

pandemic, Yeah, and never met in person

38:24

but still fell in love. They got married, absolutely,

38:27

you know, but they also like video

38:29

chatted with each other and they had met

38:31

like each other's families and stuff

38:34

like that. So there was a little more I don't

38:36

know, vetting done I'm

38:38

not sure that he's talking to Rose in a way that he

38:41

can really vet that she is a thirty

38:43

year old woman. And I don't think any of the people

38:45

we talked about were young,

38:47

hot Instagram models reaching

38:49

out to seventy year old men from another country.

38:52

Right, And I love that he says, I don't care

38:54

she's half my age. Oh yeah, okay,

38:58

I don't know you. I'm worried about

39:00

my friend. I

39:03

would rather hear she doesn't care that I'm twice

39:05

hurried. That's that makes more sense. Yeah.

39:08

Well, fortunately you can breathe

39:11

a sigh of relief because Ron

39:13

called off this supposed

39:15

in person meeting that he was going to go to at

39:17

the last minute. He says

39:20

he did anyway, He said that they were supposed

39:22

to meet in person on a Friday, and quote, it

39:25

didn't feel like the right thing for me

39:27

to do. Yes, there it is, he

39:30

realized Wallace. Or like a little

39:33

bit of Higgins from from

39:35

ted Lasso. It kind of sounds like him too. Love

39:37

it such a great accent? Or who

39:40

is he on Doubton? St incredible

39:43

character? I love it. Higgins from

39:45

ted Lasso? Was Spratt on Doubton? If you did

39:47

not know. It's one of my favorite dual

39:50

roles for an actor ever, I know, amazing.

39:52

It really shows his range. Yes, Okay,

39:55

So Ron realized that he might

39:57

not actually be in love with this girl Rose. He said,

40:00

quote she was doing all the

40:02

pushing. It didn't feel right in my

40:04

heart. He said.

40:07

She was upset but quote couldn't

40:09

take phone calls as she's in

40:11

Ghana, right, and Ghana

40:14

has you know, no phone

40:17

whatsoever. We've got a friend in Ghana that

40:19

you talked to him. We've

40:23

talked recently in fact, and in fact from

40:26

the US to Ghana, y'all have a big

40:28

time zone gap. I think the UK and

40:30

Ghana are not that far east and west of each

40:32

other, so they're in You can definitely

40:35

take a phone call in Ghana. This is

40:37

just again every red flag going off,

40:39

like, oh, I actually can't talk on the phone with

40:41

you because I'm a forty two year old

40:43

man. You know, her

40:46

name is actually Brutus, right,

40:48

I know. Yeah, that's just

40:51

I think that's just so funny that he's decided

40:53

an entire country in Africa's incapable

40:55

of taking or making phone calls. That's

40:58

just really very set. So

41:01

Ron, you know, maybe learned

41:03

his lesson, because just this

41:05

past week, in March of twenty

41:07

twenty three, Ron Shepherd,

41:10

the UK's most married

41:12

man, the lord of the Wedding Rings

41:14

himself, announced that

41:16

he was retiring from

41:19

marriage finally. Who

41:22

smart. Yeah. He said he was

41:24

moving to a care home, and he

41:26

stated that the last fifty seven years

41:28

of romance have quote worn his

41:30

body out well, and

41:33

of course his health is not great right. His

41:35

days now are very different. He's going to stay

41:37

in a care home in the Isle of Wight to be closer

41:40

to family, and he has care providers

41:42

help him three times a day. Occasionally

41:44

he gets out of the facility. But he's considering

41:46

this quote a new chapter of

41:49

my life. I think that's a good way to look at it.

41:51

I think so too, you know. And he says

41:53

he's writing a second autobiography called

41:55

The Wife Collector and which

41:58

I don't love the title, but anyway, he claims

42:00

that it's already in talks to be a movie

42:02

in the US. All right, well,

42:05

and you know, maybe, but

42:07

also, Ron, buddy, I'm worried about

42:09

people taking advantage of you, okay, and someone

42:11

trying to buy your rights for a movie is also

42:14

big red flag. Yeah,

42:16

unfortunately, he said, quote, if I meet

42:18

a nice lady in the care home, I

42:20

think I'll just keep it as a friendship. Who

42:24

I've eaten enough wedding cake over the years.

42:26

I'm done with going up the aisle.

42:28

Here you go, Ron, all right, there we go? Ah?

42:31

Man, I mean, what

42:34

is happening? How? I

42:37

just couldn't figure out what was going on with Ron. I'm reading

42:39

these stories and again they're all tabloids,

42:41

right, Like, no, nobody's writing

42:44

a research paper about Ron. There's not any

42:46

like deep New York Times

42:49

deep dives into his life story. It's

42:52

just kind of like flashy headlines the UK is

42:54

most married man looking for his ninth wife

42:56

kind of stuff, kind of setting him

42:59

up for putting a target on his

43:01

back a little bit. Sure, you can see the tabloids

43:03

being like, we can't wait for this one to fail

43:05

so you can talk about Jigen. Yeah,

43:08

and you know it got me wondering

43:11

what else is going on here? I mean, we've got

43:13

his history right, and it's totally rational.

43:16

I believe in him

43:18

having lifelong attachment issues because

43:20

of the abuse that he suffered. But

43:22

the guy just seems incapable

43:25

of not being married. I

43:27

mean fifty seven years

43:30

between his first marriage and right

43:32

now, and he has been married or engaged

43:35

to ten different women for most of

43:37

those years. And

43:39

I mean, it's not like he's some playboy who

43:41

just keeps running around and getting divorced

43:43

and cheating and screwing up or whatever. At

43:45

least according to him, he was only unfaithful

43:48

the one time with Usha. I

43:50

imagine that Ron was probably difficult

43:52

to be married too, somewhere

43:55

somewhere or another, and at

43:57

least at least some of these women,

43:59

Let's be honest, we're definitely taking advantage

44:01

of him more than I mean, that seems

44:04

pretty clear. But what is up

44:06

with him just going from one marriage straight into the next?

44:08

I mean, there's often no time, but like

44:10

this, oftentimes a marriage ends and

44:13

the next marriage starts within the same

44:15

year, if not just the next year. Well,

44:17

I found something that none

44:19

of the tabloids seemed to mention. It's called enough

44:22

to phobia, and this is the irrational

44:24

fear of not being in

44:27

a romantic relationship. According

44:29

to psychotimes dot com quote, people

44:31

who suffer from this condition may experience

44:34

very intense anxiety as a result

44:36

of their fear of being alone.

44:39

Obviously we can't, you know, just aren't share

44:41

diagnosed ron with having an up

44:43

to phobia necessarily, but

44:46

it led us to finding it and really

44:49

want to talk about it, and kind of I presume

44:52

this is kind of what he's dealing with. You

44:54

could see it, I can. I know some people

44:56

like that too, where they're just like in

44:59

the middle of a divorce and they start dating

45:01

and as soon as the divorce goes through, they get married,

45:03

and then that marriage falls apart, and

45:06

while they're getting the divorce, they start dating someone

45:08

else, you know, like they're just never alone.

45:10

And I do I didn't think I didn't know about this phobia,

45:13

but I definitely was like, there's something wrong

45:15

if you can't be by yourself for a minute.

45:17

Yeah, but you know, do you hate yourself or you

45:20

just like what's going on? So I'm kind of it's interesting

45:22

to learn about this an up to phobia probably the

45:24

very extreme version of this, but like, obviously,

45:26

yeah, we know some people who who define

45:29

themselves by their relationship, and

45:33

you know, I think it's true. You've got to love yourself

45:35

before somebody can really love you, or

45:38

at least you've got to have a sense of identity

45:40

certainly help. You've got to at least have something

45:42

about you that makes you a full person

45:45

in your own right. You know, before you just

45:47

go define yourself by the relationship you're

45:49

in, right, because you get so codependent. Yeah,

45:51

and that's not healthy, right. So an up to phobia

45:54

is this fear that kind of sticks in your brain

45:56

and it makes you feel sure that

45:59

you'll ever find anyone you know to

46:01

be with, even though actually

46:03

the future is very unpredictable. You can never know

46:06

what's coming, but the fear kind of

46:08

convinces you, right, that's what they

46:10

kind of the psychologists are like telling people like

46:13

you, you see yourself dying alone

46:15

if you don't marry this person. But that's

46:17

you saying you can predict the future, right,

46:19

and you can't. So yeah, they're

46:21

like, you know, even though you have no idea what's in store

46:23

for you in this world, you start to get so certain

46:25

that you'll end up alone that you just become

46:28

like maybe a serial dater or a serial

46:30

marrier. You're just constantly getting

46:32

yourself into a partnership. Yeah,

46:35

and you know, these marriages obviously

46:37

might not work out because they're not really based

46:39

on connection. They're based on fear,

46:42

you know, or they're being really rushed

46:44

into because you're just like anyone. I'll

46:46

take the first person who says yes, because

46:48

I have I can't be alone for two months or whatever.

46:51

And probably in Ron's case, it's probably a

46:53

little bit of both fear and the rushing

46:56

are happening all at the same time. Psych

46:58

Times says that, you know, some people are genetically

47:01

predisposed to develop mental illness, and

47:03

in that case, a traumatic experience

47:06

might trigger something like a neptophobia

47:08

to develop. Oh okay, well that of course

47:10

we know Ron had plenty of trauma exactly.

47:12

That makes yeah, again, don't

47:15

know if he's genetically predisposed illness

47:18

or anything like that, but well it makes

47:20

you wonder too if he's a nine year old and he's able

47:22

to be in this the company of this older man.

47:24

Yeah, clearly a trusted member of the community

47:27

and everything. But still maybe he was

47:29

alone a lot, you know, he just wasn't just

47:31

didn't have companionship a lot. So maybe he

47:33

was just like, if there's someone here.

47:35

Ironically, if there's someone here, no one can take

47:37

advantage of me. I think he sort of references

47:41

that it made him feel unsafe and that

47:43

he felt more safe with women than

47:45

he ever did with men, which I think is part of it too,

47:47

and in his mind, and this is probably

47:49

a whole culture of masculinity and stuff. If

47:52

I want to be around women, that means

47:54

it's got to be a romantic thing. Yeah,

47:56

yeah, being friends with a woman. Whereas,

47:59

like, what's the point I'm not comfortable amount

48:01

around men as much as I am around

48:03

women because I think I had mostly women

48:05

growing up in my life and things

48:07

like that, and I've you know, a

48:10

lot of my best friends are sys men

48:12

of course, but but but the

48:14

majority my friends are women. But at the

48:16

idea of being romantic with most of them, you

48:18

know, I left that behind a long time. But

48:22

we don't need to get into my psychology. That's

48:24

a whole other episode somebody Else's

48:26

podcast. They

48:28

break down the ridiculous romance of meeting you. Oh

48:31

well, anyway, if someone does have something lined

48:33

up to phobia, the treatments include

48:36

talk therapy and exposure therapy

48:38

and anxiety treatments. Okay, so

48:41

I guess all of those things together, probably

48:43

not just one, yeah at

48:45

a time. Well, I imagine, you know, exposure

48:47

therapy that kind of sort of thing where they would

48:50

you know, somebody who's like break up, break up, break up,

48:52

break up, and they'll say, why don't you just stay single

48:54

for a while, Like that can be really

48:57

healthy for you. But obviously if that's

48:59

give you panic attacks, that's something

49:01

that has to be dealt with separately. Yeah, that makes

49:03

sense. Well, of course, looking

49:05

into an uptophobia led us to the

49:07

other side of it, which I'm sure a lot

49:10

of us are familiar with as well, gamaphobia,

49:13

the intense fear of even the

49:15

idea of being in a committed relationship.

49:18

And you know, I want to say, like,

49:20

oh, I've known people like this, I've been like this a little

49:23

in my life. But this isn't just being

49:25

cautious or indecisive

49:27

or even so much just like, oh, I've got a fear

49:29

of commitment. This is like irrational

49:32

and intense, like people taking

49:34

extreme steps

49:36

to avoid committing. And we're talking

49:38

chest pain, dizziness, hyperventilating, trembling,

49:42

you know, just from the suggestion of like let's

49:44

go steady, you know, let me give you my pin and

49:46

they like they're like, well, why is it nineteen fifty

49:48

four and the follow

49:51

damn, but no, according to very wellmind

49:54

dot com people

49:56

will break up with others very easily,

49:58

like drop of a hat, or they'll refuse

50:01

to date altogether. The people

50:03

with this condition can still get into

50:05

relationships, but as soon as that next

50:07

level is suggested, they just kind

50:10

of go off the edge. So it's really tough

50:12

for things to get serious. Huh.

50:14

I wonder what that's about, because,

50:16

I mean, the enough to phobia makes a little more sense.

50:19

I mean, in a nonsensical way.

50:21

I guess right as it since it's not a it's

50:24

irrational fear, but um, it makes a little

50:26

more sense in that you know, oh, I need someone

50:28

with me. I need to feel like someone

50:30

gives a shit if I live or die, Like that's

50:33

a very normal fear. Then to

50:35

die alone and be eaten by your dog or something. Um.

50:38

So I just wonder what where this comes

50:40

from. Where you're like, I can't I can't

50:42

even date somebody without

50:45

losing my mind. Yeah, well, I mean, you know,

50:47

I'm no geologist, but that's

50:51

an old meme just for anything.

50:53

I'm not an expert in um and

50:56

I did read that. You know, it's it's triggered very

50:58

similarly. It can be brought up trauma

51:01

or lifestyle. Any number of factors

51:03

can give someone this condition. I

51:05

think for some people who are very

51:08

much kind of linearly focused,

51:10

like I've got this future in mind, I've got the way

51:12

I need things to be, and I don't

51:15

want to disrupt that, And it's terrifying if

51:17

I'm if I can't predict what's coming

51:19

or what my life will be like in a few years. You

51:21

add a factor in, like a committed relationship,

51:24

which is chaotic, it's random. You

51:26

know, Now you've got two lives that you're balancing

51:28

at once. I could see how that would be terrifying

51:31

if you were someone who was already scared of not

51:34

knowing what's coming. Well, I guess I can see.

51:36

Yeah, like a similar trauma being like, well,

51:38

now I can't have anyone around me because I had

51:41

somebody, you know, who

51:43

I was supposed to trust or who is supposed to love

51:45

me or supposed to take care of me or whatever treated

51:48

me poorly. So now I can't trust anybody will

51:50

actually love me. And if I let them in,

51:52

maybe you know, maybe that is

51:55

allowing them the space to hurt me. Oh definitely,

51:58

I totally definitely it's going to be an issue. Yeah,

52:00

I mean, you know, we dated for six

52:03

years before we got engaged, and

52:06

I think that leans a little on my side more

52:08

than yours. I know we talked about

52:10

it, like what around year three or four or

52:13

something, and I know that I personally wanted

52:15

to wait longer, not wanting

52:18

to or not feeling like we should,

52:20

but just out of like I just if

52:22

I don't have it in my heart that says

52:25

like, yes, I want to do this, then

52:28

it's disingenuous, right, And

52:30

that's kind of how I always felt about it. Was like if

52:33

I if you say like yeah, sure,

52:35

Like it's not like you know, let's

52:37

go see a movie, like yeah, I don't really want to see

52:40

it, but sure I'll go see it and then it's bad and you're

52:42

fine. But if you don't, if

52:44

you haven't considered all those things, I mean, like I said earlier,

52:46

like if you're not like, oh no, I

52:48

have considered every option. I

52:51

know that our lives together are

52:53

now entwined, and I'm not gonna

52:55

say I promise all these things

52:58

unless later I feel like maybe I don't want

53:00

to do those things. I just think those answers

53:03

are really important, and some of

53:05

that surely is embedded in some sort of

53:07

like unpredictability. I

53:09

think that's probably the closest that I came

53:11

to something like this, or its like I don't really

53:14

want to not know what's coming. I kind of have

53:16

a loose plan and this might throw

53:18

it all out of whack. But

53:21

again, that's so different from panic

53:24

attacks, chest pain, hyperventilating

53:27

at the concept of, well,

53:30

let's date exclusively, you know, right,

53:35

Yeah, that's interesting. I definitely

53:37

got impatient with you. I guess you

53:40

did not, because I was like, I think

53:42

I felt the same way you did. Was like

53:44

it needs to be resounding, like I would

53:47

like to spend my life with you. I don't want it

53:49

to be some reluctant I had to drag you into

53:51

it. I freaking like send you drop you

53:53

hints where I sent you pictures of engagement

53:55

rings or something. Yeah, I'm like, no, if

53:57

you don't want to, then I'm not

54:00

trying to uh hear

54:02

that. I think

54:05

you should really want this, um.

54:07

But I think I did get a little insulted that I took

54:09

so long. Wow, I want it, because

54:11

I feel like we did have a little fight after our wedding once

54:14

I was like, well that was nice one day I'll

54:16

maybe have that, maybe not wait

54:18

after after a wedd wedding. Thought

54:21

after our wedding, I was like, but you got it. No,

54:23

I know that was great. We didn't fight after

54:26

sure, I mean well, but I also I

54:28

remember even thinking like I'm having

54:31

this feeling of like, oh, why

54:33

aren't we getting married? You know? And I really

54:36

thought about it because I was like, do I want to get

54:38

married or is it just like I feel like

54:40

there should be another step we

54:43

have to undertake or this is what people

54:45

are expecting and so we need to do it or

54:48

whatever. And I do feel that once

54:50

we got married, there was definitely like this this

54:53

sense of like I feel so solid,

54:55

you know, like now there is

54:58

no there's it's lot

55:00

harder to untangle

55:02

our lives. So we have definitely decided this is

55:04

what we want and this is how we're moving forward. But

55:07

there was also something kind of nice when we were together

55:09

for so long and it was like you can't

55:12

leave at any time and you don't, yeah,

55:14

you know, and I don't. Yeah. So there's clearly

55:17

and I think that's was part of the I don't know,

55:19

part of the impatience too, was like well, we already know, it's

55:21

already been six years. Yeah, you know what I'm waiting

55:23

for, So I don't know. It was a lot of like questioning,

55:26

like what's the social cultural

55:28

programming that I have that it's definitely

55:30

in me, whether I like it or not? And

55:33

what is my true emotion about this and my

55:35

true feeling about this? And it's very hard to parse those

55:37

out sometimes it is. I mean there's times I still

55:39

think that I'm like, marriage doesn't matter

55:42

necessarily in the

55:44

ways that it used to. Marriage is obviously very

55:47

different now than it used to be. And yeah,

55:49

at six years, even

55:51

if we hadn't got engaged, I would have assumed

55:53

that we were in it for the long haul,

55:55

you know. And I think one thing about marriage

55:58

especially maybe this is even more

56:01

something of a conversation in an early like

56:03

maybe a two year relationship or something where it's

56:05

like, Hey, when things get

56:07

tough, are we going to work through it? Are

56:10

we going to tell ourselves now while

56:12

things are good, that we will work through

56:15

it when things get tough, that we are

56:17

here together and big life decisions

56:19

are something we're going to make together, and things like that. All

56:22

the stuff that comes from from marriage

56:24

in terms of the complicated stuff. And I'm

56:26

willing to make your priorities

56:28

my priorities, and you're willing to make my

56:30

priorities your priorities. And if you end

56:33

up, you know, incapacitated in such

56:35

a way that you need someone to care for you, am I that person?

56:38

Yeah? That kind of yeah, all

56:40

those questions. Marriage is a way

56:42

to kind of lay it all out and be like, yes, officially,

56:45

let's say that, yes, And I think you can

56:47

have that conversation without the

56:50

institution the corporate

56:52

world of weddings that are really just about

56:55

flash ceremony and money.

56:57

And then there's you know, there's the legal component

56:59

too, which also kind of comes down

57:01

to property and money, and that's a whole other thing. But

57:04

I don't think unimportant, but not unimportant,

57:06

But I don't think that you need that

57:09

to live a committed life together. But

57:11

it's also the best party

57:13

we've ever had, the most

57:16

amazing trip of our lives we got to

57:18

take afterwards, and I similarly,

57:20

yeah, I'm glad we did. I And you

57:22

do feel a sense of like, well, that's settled.

57:25

Nothing's left ambiguous

57:28

at this point, right, And I think

57:30

too, there was probably a question in my mind, like oh

57:33

he doesn't want me, you know,

57:35

right, which is crazy. I know it

57:37

is. You're crazy. And that's one thing a husband

57:40

really needs to tell his wife pretty

57:42

often, is that like, you're crazy and

57:44

if you think something's wrong, you're making it

57:46

up in that crazy woman brainiers. This

57:48

is why we put no romantic tips in

57:51

the theme song, because Eli gives

57:53

terrible advice. That

57:56

is your wife act. Make

57:58

sure you let her though as often as possible.

58:01

She'll thank you for it. No,

58:05

but I mean, you know, and I I never I

58:07

didn't think you're gonna cheat on me or something, but you

58:09

know, I just had that. There was always a little question

58:11

of like, oh, he's trying to keep a door open, you

58:14

know what I mean, for a reason. There's a reason he wants

58:16

a door open. Yeah, you know. And yeah,

58:20

because if I wouldn't the latto you know that's mine.

58:23

Now it's ours, Sorry,

58:26

babe, you have to give me some of it. Well,

58:29

I would love to hear your marriage

58:31

stories, whether you've been through a bunch

58:34

of chaotic ones or

58:36

whether you just did what we did and just made

58:38

sure, made really sure, and

58:42

then married for just the absolute

58:44

joy of it. Please let us

58:46

know whatever you've got or whatever you thought

58:48

about this episode. If you got a hot take on ron

58:51

as many Wives, I'd love to hear that too, and we'll read

58:53

them out on a later episode. Or an up to phobia

58:56

or phobia if you experience

58:58

it, or you know someone or definitely seven

59:01

opinion or whatever, shoot us an

59:03

email. We're ridic Romance at gmail dot com

59:05

right or we are also on Instagram. I'm at

59:08

Dynamite Boom and I'm at Oh Great, It's

59:10

Eli and the show is at riddic

59:12

Romance. Stay tuned for another fun episode

59:14

next week. Thank you so much for spending your time with us,

59:17

and we'll catch it the next one. Love you, bye,

59:19

so long, friends, it's time to go. Thanks

59:22

so listening to our show. Tell

59:25

your friend's names Uncle, sendance

59:27

to listen to a show Ridiculous Roll

59:29

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