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18-plus Hey

0:32

everybody, what's going on Rob Cester

0:34

Nino back? We got some bonus

0:36

coverage here this week It's

0:38

been so much fun here in survivor

0:41

46 trying to invite some more fun

0:43

people on to chat about this and

0:45

this is a Podcast I've

0:47

wanted to do for some time. I've really been

0:49

looking forward to catch up with somebody from survivor 45.

0:52

It's Mr.

0:54

Drew Bicile is he drew or is

0:57

he Bicile today? We'll find out I

1:00

mean Rob, I'm flattered to be called

1:02

fun. Let me tell you I'm excited to be here.

1:04

Yeah you kind of the man of the hour right

1:07

because 50

1:09

is is on the horizon. Everybody's thinking pre-game, you

1:11

know, how are you gonna do that? Clearly you're

1:13

gonna go to the Rob Cester Nino watch

1:15

parties Yeah, it's not her to have an inside

1:18

track to that. Well, you're not gonna be with

1:20

us in Chicago So you're gonna miss out. I

1:22

know I'm gonna miss it. You might look back

1:24

in a couple of years What went wrong is

1:26

like I couldn't get out to Chicago. Yeah, it's

1:28

gonna be like season 50 version of the poker

1:31

Alliance The Cester Nino maniacs.

1:33

I got to come up with a name for it But

1:36

but yeah that that's that's the spot to

1:38

be but that's really my dream really I

1:41

don't think I'll be on survivor 50 But if there could be

1:43

some sort of like found file

1:45

footage of like me like

1:47

B roll talking Like

1:50

that's really that's the dream One

1:53

day Okay,

1:55

I think I need to get out there Rob anything's

1:57

possible and drew is you are a the

2:00

pond you are in

2:02

England we

2:05

feel so far away from us listen

2:08

I feel so far away from you like I am

2:10

this is the loop and I'm over here

2:12

like I'm I don't know what's going on

2:15

at all it's funny though Rob I go

2:17

to Oxford so I'm away from things but

2:19

I was walking down the street the other

2:21

day I'm away to get my hair's cut

2:23

I hope they look good fate is a

2:27

little short for my liking but I ran

2:29

into Jamie from 44 walking down the street

2:31

she clocked me immediately wow big

2:33

hog I couldn't believe it I gave her

2:35

some restaurant recommendations we posted on on

2:38

Instagram and I kind of felt bad because like

2:40

I was just like meeting of the minds you know I

2:43

put some emojis in there you know cuz the

2:45

style she had this like wonderful like rich like

2:47

heartfelt message about how much it you know meant

2:49

to her and I was like like

2:52

it's just me you know and then I thought

2:54

bad cuz I did I understand it's I'd like

2:56

repost and very stressful social interaction

2:58

very stressful but somebody else say I am out

3:00

here no there's some people I can relate to

3:03

that cuz I feel like that there's so that

3:05

look and we all like you

3:07

you you're a writer I mean and

3:09

so but it's not necessarily the same

3:11

thing as social media like and there's

3:13

some people that they write these like

3:15

social media posts and they're just like

3:17

oh my god this is like incredibly

3:19

emotional and thoughtful and I can't do

3:21

that I mean I can go on a

3:23

podcast and talk for three hours but I can't

3:25

write an instant like when I get on Instagram

3:27

it's one of the reasons I don't do it

3:29

that much like like every reply is like oh

3:31

my god what do I say yeah I

3:35

mean you're speaking my there are some people who I

3:37

just I don't want to get this taken the wrong

3:39

way like I should I use this emoji is it

3:41

gonna get misconstrued a hundred percent

3:43

I have my girlfriend is very indulgent and

3:45

understanding about my my quirks and so I

3:47

will send her I'll send her the post

3:50

like this is good is this bad it's

3:52

probably like a 90% veto rate honestly from

3:54

the president yeah social media yeah

3:56

girlfriend but everybody everybody yeah my wife is

3:58

great as she can Right very thoughtful things

4:01

on media, but I really strive is why

4:03

I need a whole a whole team a

4:05

village to help me do social Media, but

4:08

we're good talkers. It doesn't make any sense

4:10

makes a different. It's not the same It

4:13

is okay. We put I put too much pressure on

4:15

myself. Anyways though enough about that. Yeah Drew

4:19

survivor. Yes, survive. We're talking about survivor

4:21

drew. I know you are you

4:23

are still at school What

4:25

are you what program are you going for

4:27

another than not survivor 50? What what what

4:29

is gonna be are you going to be

4:32

when you get done with all of your

4:34

school? That is a

4:36

great question You know, I don't know

4:38

my uncle now if I asked that am I no

4:40

no no hey listen, you know Every day

4:43

it's them 64 dozen dollar question. So

4:45

it's a good one. I would love one day to

4:47

write the job market right now It's a little crazy,

4:49

you know, we know in the real world But

4:52

I'm on scholarship here at Oxford So I can

4:54

kind of ride the gravy train for another couple

4:56

years get a PhD things like that. Yeah, but

4:58

what do you want to write? Fix

5:01

I would love to write. Yeah, no, it looks right novels and

5:03

love to write fiction I actually have something I've been working on

5:05

for about a year. It's coming together pretty well I'm

5:08

good. I'm gonna get a survivor 50 fan

5:10

fiction. Yeah, Jeff is in it. There's

5:13

like a plane crash It's it's it's

5:15

it's called lost. I don't really think it's been done

5:17

before but but yeah I really like I really like

5:19

the direction and I think it's got some marketability No,

5:23

that's that's it. That's a joke. Um,

5:25

so yeah, anyway one day I'll be going for

5:27

a second Right. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm

5:29

sorry. I'm a great liar. People always tell me

5:31

that But

5:34

doing the doing like the content stuff, you know,

5:36

that's my that's my strength that's it's that it's

5:38

the Brain at the

5:40

good look and then since the season

5:42

ended back in December. How's the the

5:44

last couple of months been for you?

5:48

It's been great Rob. I have to tell you especially

5:50

with the time change, you know And at first I

5:52

was I was gonna be so mature about survivor 45

5:54

and I wasn't gonna look at social media And I

5:56

was gonna watch the episodes the next day. Yeah, I

5:59

mean very quickly like that is not tenable. So

6:01

I stay up to four in the morning to watch the

6:03

thing and you got to read all the Redditor comments and

6:05

you got to watch the

6:07

Rob has a podcast recaps, which is what

6:09

every survivor does. They see all your comments.

6:11

So remember that, you know, that you're your

6:14

voice. You don't like my comments on the

6:16

earth. What's up? Oh, the people

6:18

that are listening, you're talking to the people. Oh, yeah.

6:20

No, no, no, the survivor

6:22

crazy. Yeah. They're looking at they're looking at your

6:24

comment. They're reading. So they probably don't. I mean,

6:26

they probably too busy to listen to the whole

6:28

podcast, but they're just going to read all the

6:30

comments on the YouTube. Oh, yeah. They're going to

6:32

go on Reddit. They're going to search their name.

6:35

They're going to go through the magnifying glass. You

6:37

know, put together a hit list for their biggest

6:39

haters. I mean, it's very involved. But

6:42

no, since survivors and survivors keep a list

6:44

of the people that are the meanest to

6:46

them. Is that is that true? No, I

6:48

mean, that that's not true.

6:51

I think if I was a Redditor,

6:53

I might be like, whoa, I'm going

6:55

to tread lightly. I didn't know the

6:58

survivors were there. If there's somebody who

7:00

is very persistent, you definitely remember that

7:02

is like there's one person there's one

7:04

person on Twitter who like I know

7:06

by profile pic like, okay, like you're

7:08

you're a hater. And I

7:11

know for a fact other people, other players

7:13

kind of kind of sure. But

7:16

you know, I can, you know,

7:18

not to say I don't have haters, but

7:21

I can remember when I went through it.

7:23

And you know, we had talked about like,

7:25

I posted the meme of you couldn't last

7:27

one hour in the asylum that I grew

7:29

up in. And I posted about survivor socks.

7:32

And boy, yeah, Drew, we could do a

7:34

whole podcast on that. But yeah, I remember

7:36

what the one guy in particular, I remember

7:38

his avatar, I remember his name. This

7:42

guy, no matter what happened with

7:44

me that this guy was belligerent.

7:49

Well, I don't know if we want to do some

7:51

shout outs, but there is somebody on socks. Because once

7:53

you go to survivor, you have this incredible experience, and

7:55

you can't tell anyone about it. And especially if you

7:57

did well, you're like, you're kind of like

8:00

You're the prince and the king is in the hospital.

8:02

You're awaiting your coronation. There was

8:04

this one guy in hospital. No, not on

8:07

socks. And his name is like Ladies Man 30

8:09

or something like that. And he came up with

8:11

this mythology about the wolf pack that was going

8:13

to run Survivor 45. And

8:15

like we thought this was just

8:18

hysterical. And

8:20

I'm sure no doubt a

8:22

true Ladies Man taking just

8:24

a small break from wining

8:28

and dining various dates.

8:31

In the Uber between clubs pulling

8:33

up socks. Yeah. Disforcing the wolf

8:35

pack. The wolf pack. Who was in the

8:37

wolf pack? I don't

8:39

even remember. It was all like the alpha bros. So you

8:41

know I was on the outside. I was

8:44

looking in from an anthropological distance. Yeah.

8:48

For sure. But yeah I know

8:50

it's great fun. And honestly interacting with

8:52

the online community is a blast.

8:55

Like it's very enjoyable. I never really took it to heart. I

8:57

think a lot of people do. I think people on 46 really

9:00

are. Which is unfortunate. If that's

9:03

true stop replying to things on Twitter. What

9:06

do you think about it? Can I ask you? So in

9:09

Survivor 45. I mean the Survivor 45

9:11

cast was pretty calm on social media

9:13

for the most part. But

9:16

season 46 really the cats out of

9:18

the bag. Can't put the toothpaste

9:20

back in the tube on Survivor 46 on

9:23

social media. The inmates are

9:25

running the asylum on 46. I don't know what

9:27

yes it is. It's doing. And it's kind of

9:29

like sometimes with suit and loan. They're too busy

9:31

thinking of having meetings about Survivor 50. They

9:34

are. I know. They put the car before the horse. But

9:36

with suit and loan. A lot of times I see this

9:38

argument with the army. They're like I went through it. You

9:40

have to do it. And I'm

9:42

always like oh I don't know. That's not the right thing. I

9:44

went through it. I went through the restrictions on social

9:46

media. You got to do it. This is not just.

9:50

But would you like to

9:52

see some sort of like social

9:54

media ban forgiveness given

9:57

out by the Survivor Administration?

10:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, our moment is

10:03

past. You know, that's the thing. It's like all

10:05

those funny memes I could have posted. They're lost

10:07

to the sands of time. But I

10:10

do think that the – from

10:13

a viewer perspective, I love the Twitter beef. It reminds

10:15

me of Kagan back when Tony every episode would go

10:17

on and – You were there for that? I

10:20

was – that was the first season

10:22

I really was on online for. Kagan,

10:26

Tony, I know, eons ago, I

10:28

was a young strapping lad. But

10:31

I mean, from a

10:33

player perspective, though, it really is a

10:35

mistake because survivors are very stressful to

10:38

go through that airing experience to be exposed to

10:40

so many opinions of you, most of which are

10:42

negative. And your

10:45

reactions feel proportionate at the time, but I really

10:47

feel that, like, in the future, you might regret

10:49

some of the things you post and the way

10:51

you conducted yourself on social media. And

10:53

it's very much a situation to – like, if

10:55

you retaliate, you're egging it on. The teasing is

10:58

effective because you're reacting. So it's

11:00

tough, but it's kind of a situation

11:02

where everybody's got to learn their own

11:04

lesson. You'll know for your returnee season.

11:06

Okay. So, Drew, let's talk a little

11:08

bit about Survivor 46. I'm

11:10

really eager to hear your thoughts on

11:13

how it's been going and where we're at

11:15

right now. Yeah.

11:18

I mean, listen, Rob, I like 46. One

11:22

of the things about playing on the Survivor is that

11:24

people say that you come back and kind of, like,

11:26

the magic is gone. Like, you know how the sausage

11:28

is made. Like, you know the tricks. I

11:31

don't feel that way at all. I feel

11:33

totally naive about it. Like, it's still wondrous.

11:35

It's still entertaining. So I like it. But

11:39

46 is interesting. I find a lot of

11:41

the gameplay to be a little bit objectionable. And,

11:43

like, the one sticking point is that it's

11:45

like keeping up with the Joneses, you know?

11:48

Like, everybody's got to make a big move, and they've

11:51

got to betray their ally. That's like a check mark.

11:53

No, it is not. That's how you lose a survivor.

11:55

So, right? So it's very frustrating. Yeah, I'd love to

11:57

just get your take a little bit about the difference.

12:00

between Survivor 45 and

12:02

46 because I feel like the

12:04

Survivor 45 cast, I mean, you all, you

12:08

left and you didn't see the

12:10

post-merge from 44 and they did,

12:12

right? Do

12:15

I have that correct? Yeah, yeah,

12:17

yeah. So was there something

12:19

that they saw in the

12:21

Survivor 44 post-merge

12:24

that kind of like changed their

12:26

worldview or is it just that

12:28

the personalities are just so different?

12:33

You know, I really am down

12:35

on this idea, which is very common in the community

12:37

that the last episode season

12:39

that airs really affects your perception

12:42

of the game. Certainly it does in terms of challenges

12:44

and advantages, right? Because you know what's kind of on

12:46

the mind of the producers, like the swap. Okay, we

12:48

know there's going to be a swap. However,

12:52

I think that you really formulate how you're going

12:54

to play during casting. And so it's that fall

12:56

season that's critical actually. So

12:59

the people on 46 are responding to 43. They're

13:03

responding to Jesse and Cody. Making

13:05

a big move, taking out your ally is kind of

13:07

the coronation move. 43,

13:09

adding on to I think Marianne and 42,

13:11

that's what they've taken as the meta. Very

13:15

fluid game states with a coalition alliance among

13:17

the three tribes. That's what Q tried to

13:19

assemble. I think that there was some grouping

13:21

like that at the beginning of 43. So

13:24

that's obviously the season they're at. I would

13:26

expect a really similar result, honestly. The

13:29

tight duo turning on each other at the end,

13:31

somebody who's not really well estimated, but was within

13:33

that group coming to the win. I really think

13:35

that's how it's going to break down. So

13:39

I think that we look towards 47 and 48,

13:41

they're probably going to take their

13:44

twos from 45 rather than 46. Or

13:46

42. Yeah, from us. So

13:48

I would expect to see in the future, a strong

13:51

tribal alliance that tries to undersell

13:53

itself coming into the merge. Yeah,

13:55

especially when we've seen so many

13:57

people having issues with going

14:00

after their allies here in 46, I

14:02

do wonder if that's really a lot of the wisdom

14:04

that's going to be the takeaway of the Re

15:54

that is what definitely happened. You can really

15:56

see that cabin fever mentality on So

16:00

going back to 45 a little

16:02

bit, you know, that all of the

16:04

resume talk and I need these moves

16:06

for my resume, I feel like and

16:08

tell me if I am misremembering this,

16:11

but I feel like in terms of

16:13

in 45, we heard it more in

16:15

terms of like, the Jakes

16:17

and Katoras were the people that

16:19

were sort of like a little

16:21

bit on the outside of the

16:24

main structure. It's like, hey, I

16:26

need I need these things

16:28

for my resume, because I

16:31

am like down in terms

16:33

of my standing amongst the

16:35

jury. But amongst the reba

16:38

for was the idea of

16:40

my my moves, my resume?

16:42

Like, was that something that

16:44

the four of you were

16:46

talking about or thinking about?

16:48

No, I mean, not really, honestly, like,

16:50

I think reba for was kind of

16:52

an anomaly Alliance, and that we were

16:54

really enamored by each other. And so

16:56

it was kind of a perspective that like, we

16:59

felt okay going to the end with each other

17:01

and like duking it out at

17:03

final tribal, having it be

17:05

anyone's game, because you know, we've gone so much of

17:07

so much of the game together. There was kind of

17:09

a, you know, a sense to like, okay, we're stuck

17:11

in the three legged race, you know, and like, we're

17:14

walking together and whose actual foot is going to get

17:16

over the line, like, that'll be it.

17:18

But no, the resume talk wasn't really so prominent.

17:21

And I think that resume talk is a fundamental

17:24

misunderstanding that plays in the era, because

17:26

resumes don't win survivor, like they

17:28

really do not. And that sounds shocking. But if

17:31

I'm 40, and I worked at Goldman Sachs when I

17:33

was 22, for two years, and

17:35

I haven't done anything since, are

17:38

they really gonna want to hire me? No, there's a huge

17:40

gap in my resume. I got one little, got one little

17:42

node. What when survivor is narratives,

17:44

you need to have a narrative of your

17:46

progress through the game of your control. That's

17:48

why Emily was a big threat. Yeah, Emily,

17:50

did she have a big resume move on

17:53

the way that some other people did? Maybe not.

17:56

But Emily had that underdog narrative. And that's what

17:58

actually wins games. So Yeah,

18:00

people really focused on these

18:02

Sisyphusian strategic moves to you

18:04

know Gold star

18:06

the resume are playing incoherent games

18:09

that probably won't be rewarded by a bitter

18:11

jury Yeah, this is a really interesting

18:13

point because you know I've been talking a

18:16

little bit this season and I've been talking

18:18

a lot of this this theory that I

18:20

have of Survivor in the new era of

18:22

basically we have like there's three types of

18:24

people that are in the game We

18:27

have the people that I've been like

18:29

affectionately calling the losers the people who

18:32

like say they they cannot win There

18:35

are the nothings that are sort of

18:37

like okay, they're there their numbers. They

18:39

haven't really made a move They don't really have the

18:42

respect but they don't have the disrespect You know people

18:44

have more like sort of like mutual feelings for them

18:46

And then there are the people who are the threats

18:48

if the threat gets to the end they'll win But

18:51

they're also the biggest targets out there and

18:53

the juiciest targets out there where if I

18:55

can like take out a threat I

18:58

could potentially go from a nothing to now

19:00

I am a threat I can run TJ's

19:02

final I can win the game because I

19:04

have at least like this notch on my

19:06

belt Yeah that I can show to people

19:08

but where part of the reason

19:10

that people are the threats are because

19:12

they just have This like

19:15

ability about them and that there are

19:17

some people in the game that they

19:19

don't really even need to do Anything

19:21

other than just get to the end

19:23

because they are just they seem like

19:25

you you spot them at Ponderosa This

19:28

person if they got to the end, yeah, yeah,

19:31

they'll they'll they'll win. They don't have to

19:33

do anything Listen

19:36

I mean Robin said it's a sad reality of

19:39

life that some people have charisma Some

19:41

people are the life of the party and had

19:43

half that command and they are naturally, you know

19:45

Predisposed to to be in a dominant position

19:47

on survivor as that as at the workplace as

19:50

everywhere I totally

19:52

agree with your taxonomy And

19:55

I think but like why it wasn't

19:57

always like this Right,

19:59

like it used to be be that like strategy kind of

20:01

kind of in the 30s. Strategy was

20:03

what singled you out. I felt. Did

20:05

it? Because I feel like that

20:08

that's what we at home as viewers

20:10

want to say if we were on

20:12

that jury, we would look at who

20:14

did what moves. But I really and

20:16

I've said this that it's always that

20:18

who did they like the most? Who

20:20

did they, you know, who do they

20:23

feel like that they could write their name down? It's always been

20:25

who they like the most. And then when there's three people and

20:27

it's sort of like a toss up, OK, you

20:30

know, I feel like a little bit better about

20:32

this person. And then the jury, when

20:34

we ask them, well, why did you vote for

20:36

that person? Then they they don't ever say, well,

20:38

look, I like that guy. That's my that's my

20:40

friend. They'll give you while they did this, they

20:42

did this, they did this. And

20:45

that's where I think all of this resume when

20:47

people like talk themselves into knots about like, why

20:49

did Chris Underwood would well, he did this, he

20:51

did he won this challenge. He made the fire.

20:53

He did like, you got to vote for him

20:56

then. Well, I

20:58

mean, 100 percent people vote for who they

21:00

like more, like, definitely true in the vast

21:02

majority of cases. But I'm

21:05

referring more to like the power structure and like the beginning

21:07

of the middle of the game. And

21:09

like an example I'll take is like millennials versus Gen

21:11

X. The two dominant people

21:13

in those in those groups were David and

21:15

Zeke, who ostensibly were kind of fish out

21:17

of water. You know, like they didn't have

21:19

that, like, oozing fusive charisma

21:22

that that like Jay So

21:25

that's kind of the sense that I mean that

21:27

at least in terms of the power structure at

21:29

camp strategy used to be a little more present.

21:31

But now it really is just like pure social,

21:34

like people like Charlie is a great example

21:36

where Charlie is the strategic brain

21:39

behind Seagut behind the majority alliance.

21:41

At this point, I think that's pretty indisputable.

21:44

But yet he's not why would they I

21:46

feel like that him and Maria, like,

21:49

strategically, to me at least, it

21:51

seems that it's a co. Yeah,

21:56

you know, like, I have not been

21:58

able to parse strategically, Charlie. Maria. I

22:00

feel like that they've worked. I feel like

22:02

that Charlie might have maybe

22:04

a better social game and be

22:06

able to like have some

22:09

of these conversations be a little bit better

22:11

than Maria is and is seen as less

22:13

of a threat. Hmm, definitely

22:15

seems less. I mean, the only reason I kind

22:17

of prioritize Charlie

22:20

over Maria is because Maria

22:22

didn't try to explain to her why it

22:24

was good. They weren't getting the credit. And

22:27

then Charlie pushed for Liz rather than Venus

22:29

to be brought in and they bring Liz.

22:32

So I feel like that's maybe a subtle

22:34

gesture by the edit that like, you know,

22:36

Charlie is the driving strategic force. But maybe

22:38

not. Maybe I'm seeing ghosts on that. Yeah,

22:42

I don't want to take any credit

22:45

away from Charlie. I just think that

22:47

I like I don't want to say

22:49

it's like, you know, 100% Charlie, zero

22:51

Maria, and it's not necessarily, you

22:53

know, that case. I do think that Charlie has gotten more in

22:55

the edit. But yeah, I feel like

22:58

that Maria is viewed as the more feared of

23:00

final opponent.

23:04

Yeah, I think that Charlie, some

23:06

would have been probably has a little bit of like

23:08

an image crisis right now. Like it seems like the

23:11

totem pole on that on that tribe is

23:13

at the bottom, you have Liz and Venus.

23:16

I think Liz might even be below Venus.

23:18

And then Kia was there on the bottom,

23:21

but seems more dangerous. And you have Charlie

23:23

and Ben, and maybe

23:25

Kenzie. And then you have Maria

23:28

and maybe

23:31

I forgotten somebody. But that's I

23:33

think that the social social hierarchy more

23:35

or less, give or take. Yeah. Okay,

23:37

so let's pick things up here

23:41

this week. And now, hey, Tiffany

23:44

has gone out. How

23:46

do you see this thing moving forward? Well,

23:50

it's it's really frustrating because

23:53

common sense should indicate that there's a

23:55

tight three that everybody knows about. And

23:58

now I think when we're at seven. Seven. Seven.

24:02

Eight. So this is your last time to have

24:04

numbers to pick off one of the tight three

24:06

who just made a move to reveal to everybody

24:09

that they're together, right? Leaving Venus out.

24:11

Liz gets pulled into the last moment as

24:13

kind of a charity gesture to you as

24:15

nobody. And

24:18

then, who am I forgetting?

24:20

Somebody else. Kenzie? Kenzie.

24:23

Yeah. Kenzie is far enough to realize

24:25

they just took out her number one heli. Yeah. Every

24:27

rational fiber should be indicating to these people they

24:30

need to come together to take out one of

24:32

the three. I doubt it's going to happen. Yeah.

24:34

Well, I feel like we had this a

24:36

little bit last season where, okay, you know,

24:39

there was a point where the other, the

24:42

non-Riba people, you know, was it, and stop

24:44

me if I got any of these numbers

24:46

wrong, but you all took out, what, Kelly

24:48

at 10, right? Yeah,

24:51

I think so. And so that

24:53

means then there were only the

24:56

Riba four, and then the people

24:58

that outnumbered the Riba's could

25:00

have, you know, come together and stopped

25:03

you. But it was a group of people

25:06

that were not, you know, that

25:08

Katora and Bruce and Emily like,

25:11

you know, needed to, and Jake

25:13

and people that like did

25:15

not have, were not on the same page needed to

25:17

come together. And I kind of feel like that's where

25:19

we are now. I think so. The

25:22

three Segas, okay, that they've shown

25:24

that they could still work together.

25:27

But now could you conceivably imagine

25:29

that this four, Kenzie,

25:32

Q, and

25:34

Venus, and Liz are

25:36

going to work together when none of

25:38

them like Q? Yeah,

25:42

no. I mean, mountains would need to move for

25:44

that four to get together. I think it's all

25:46

but an assured thing. It's

25:48

to the swing boat this week. I

25:52

don't think so. I mean, the reality

25:54

is Q was a lot

25:56

like Tony because they reinvent the

25:58

game constantly. do is new

26:00

and fresh and exciting. But

26:03

the difference between Q and Tony is that Tony is always

26:05

able to pull you in. You

26:07

know, you always orbit Tony, whereas Q is

26:10

like he's the opposite of the magnet, you

26:12

know, he repels, he pushes people away, he

26:14

alienates people. Everybody

26:16

who works with Q is eventually alienated by

26:18

Q. And fundamentally, a swing vote

26:20

kind of means you're the hottest girl at the

26:22

party, you know, you're hoarding all the suitors. If

26:25

you're if you're pushing him away with these, these

26:27

vile displays, you're never going

26:29

to effectively be the swing vote. And so again, for

26:31

the same reason that we see like, that

26:33

for never going out, they're never gonna be able to

26:35

get together. Like similarly, to the personalities, Q is never

26:37

gonna be able to be the swing vote. Right. If

26:40

Q tried to be the swing vote, he would get

26:42

voted out this week, because I think that's the point

26:44

where he was playing both ends against like, it would

26:46

be sort of like, you know,

26:48

one of my favorites of that you could

26:50

see the two, the other two threes of

26:52

people not to say that Venus, Kenzie and

26:55

Liz are a three, but you know, they

26:57

have mutually aligned interests that

26:59

they could give like, hey, you want to all just vote out

27:01

Q this week? Yeah,

27:04

I think that's very probable, especially if there's some

27:07

kind of like, you know, funny business about it

27:09

all. Because right now Q is kind of like

27:11

neutralized, you know, he's just there, like, he's dangerous

27:13

if you if you give him a weapon, but

27:15

he's just there. And if he doesn't rock the

27:17

boat, he can stay. Um,

27:20

if there's some kind of shenanigans about an idol,

27:22

if he starts faking one, if he makes himself

27:24

a problem for probably, you know, psychological reasons, because

27:26

he needs to have power, he wants to be

27:28

the, you know, the center of the tension, that

27:31

that's the kind of situation where they're gonna snipe him. So

27:33

it'll be interesting to see. Hopefully, he can continue

27:35

to kind of like play beneath the radar. And

27:38

hopefully, that's an intentional move rather than what somebody

27:40

suggested, like his head is out of the game.

27:44

But but if he if he kind of if he

27:46

gets squirrely, I think I think it very quickly be

27:48

the end of Q rather than like a swing of

27:50

opposition. One of my big questions going into this final

27:52

seven is that is Charlie at some

27:54

point, like we've seen so many other people in

27:56

this game say, I need to

28:01

Take out my number one to win the

28:03

game. I feel like if Charlie and Maria gets

28:05

to the end I do think that the jury

28:07

will see Maria as Like

28:09

the the person that with a bit of

28:12

an edge not to say that Charlie can't

28:14

win in that final three but I do

28:16

feel like that Maria is viewed as as

28:18

like a little bit more of the Like

28:22

the boss sure Sika. So

28:24

does Charlie does Charlie need to vote out

28:26

Maria and do you think he will? I

28:32

Think the answer to both of those questions is yes. I

28:35

think that the tribe probably

28:37

sees Charlie's a little young Just

28:40

based on like like comments I've seen whatever Maria

28:43

is gonna get the credit Maria

28:46

also, it's a little bit alienating socially

28:49

like she keeps people on their toes. She's brought in Q I

28:52

mean how long that's gonna last we'll see like guys

28:54

like, you know having a Tigers your pet But

28:57

she's pushed away Venus. She's pushed away Liz.

28:59

She's pushed away Ben in a secret scene So

29:01

she doesn't have the social capital to protect herself

29:04

if Charlie decides that she needs to go

29:07

And I I Charlie's a smart enough guy that he's gonna he's

29:09

gonna make ya I really

29:11

see Charlie winning that battle between Maria

29:13

and Him

29:15

which maybe is coloring my perception of like the

29:17

strategic credit allotment with that within

29:20

that group, but will it be a A

29:23

Pyrrhic victory for Charlie where if he votes

29:25

out Maria, will he make it to

29:27

the end? I Mean,

29:31

you know it's really unfortunate because The

29:33

new era the meta has become this just

29:36

like falling of the dominoes from from

29:38

seven to five and then you're left with relatively

29:42

Dissatisfying winners at

29:44

four and I know for a fact that

29:47

this is something production has specifically noticed

29:49

and dislikes Production is against this meta.

29:51

Okay, they see it originating With

29:54

like the mid 30s. I'm not gonna like

29:56

say specific people. They're very against

29:58

it. They want like with the winner to go

30:00

to the end. And I hold out hope too,

30:02

because it's better TV. I would like a

30:04

strong collision to go to the end rather than

30:07

Venus, Liz, Q, Ben. But

30:11

it's really a question. I mean, the one saving grace

30:13

that we could hope that like some power players make

30:15

it to the end is the fact that Q and

30:17

Venus are really, they're kind of alienating. And

30:20

so that social

30:23

gratingness might mean that people

30:25

don't play rationally, they don't play in their best

30:27

interest to like knock down the dominoes. Yeah. And

30:29

maybe we get enough like big players in the

30:31

final six, that it ends up in

30:33

kind of like a stalemate and people sweep through. That's

30:35

my only hope. I think that we'll get one big

30:37

player this now. Drew, if Survivor came to you and

30:39

said, Hey, Drew, we want you to be a consultant

30:42

for the show, help us help us

30:44

with this problem. Okay. Okay.

30:47

What would you advise them to do? Oh,

30:51

I mean, I don't

30:53

even know. I think that you got to change the

30:55

format. Number one. I mean, first of all, I have

30:58

been a survivor consultant, little known fact, after the auction

31:00

stops, they like interviewed us on like what we should

31:02

change and how we like and how we're going to

31:04

bring it back. So now they have

31:06

my number. They know they've consulted. Will

31:09

you share with us what how you

31:11

thought they could improve the

31:13

auction? Yeah, I said, you know,

31:15

the real questions

31:17

are we going to introduce an advantage. And so

31:20

I said, put in an advantage. Don't

31:23

tell people what number it's going to be.

31:25

Maintain the same vote loss mechanic. So

31:28

like it's really a high risk thing to like,

31:30

what I didn't like about the auction was that

31:32

I feel like that it was just like everybody

31:34

was just like falling over themselves to spend all

31:36

their money. It wasn't like an actual like we

31:39

lost the plot a little bit on the auction

31:41

of that. I want to see people like, okay,

31:43

figuring out like what food do they want? How

31:45

much money they could spend on it? Like it

31:48

was like black Thursday, you know, you got to get

31:50

out of the bank. The bank's going to fail. Somebody's

31:53

going to go bankrupt, lose their vote. So

31:55

I totally agree. And so the idea, and this is

31:57

something I think production shares is that introducing an advantage

31:59

is a way to stop like this

32:02

kind of like meaningless money spending for

32:05

food while still getting the moment, but you don't

32:07

want to introduce an advantage in a way that

32:09

like everyone will just wait. So the question

32:11

needs to be like, like there's some volatility around

32:13

when the advantage will come up and the consequence

32:15

doesn't. So that was, you know, that was the

32:17

thrust of my consultancy. And

32:20

I was, I was paying no money for

32:22

that. Yeah, and I gotta get together like

32:24

McKinsey or something. Um, in

32:27

terms of how we need to spice up survival, let me

32:29

tell you, it needs to be spiced up and they know

32:32

what's up. I feel like that this

32:34

is a spicy take coming

32:37

in. Is it the

32:39

format is it's stale, the three

32:42

tribe format with no

32:44

tribe split basically results

32:46

in KG gameplay and

32:48

the tightest group at the merge.

32:51

Like every season it results this way. 41 42

32:53

44 not 43 I don't think, but it may

32:58

be, maybe I don't know what the other was like 45 46

33:01

is looking like. So when the same strategy

33:03

wins six seasons in a row, you start

33:05

to realize that this is the optimal strategy.

33:07

Yeah. Um, so the way solution

33:09

is number one to put two tribes and then

33:12

to have a tribe split. I split. I think

33:14

that the two tribes dynamic

33:16

with a two tribes split tribe split

33:18

is, is the most fresh is the

33:20

most vital way of playing the game.

33:22

Yeah. The most interesting combination. Well, okay.

33:25

I think you're making a good point

33:27

here because I think that, okay. Um,

33:29

I like I just to

33:31

give a survivor some credit. Okay.

33:34

I think that what they like the

33:37

idea that they have, like I think is

33:39

fine. You want to do three tribes. Okay.

33:42

But I think what the problem is, is

33:45

that you have telegraph that

33:47

every single season is

33:49

exactly the same. And

33:51

so the players have

33:53

like extreme certainty of like, okay,

33:55

it's day 17. We know that

33:57

we know what's happening today. We

34:00

know okay, we know to do this we know to do

34:02

this and I think that the

34:04

decisions for the players become a little bit more

34:08

Easy because they know exactly what the

34:10

format of the game is going to

34:12

be and other than in your season

34:14

where they had the tribe Swap which I

34:16

do think that may have been like

34:18

sort of triggered by the you know,

34:20

the little disaster Yeah

34:24

Other than other than that like

34:26

the game has been like almost Identical

34:29

for every single one of these seasons and I

34:31

think that the players have like really adapted to

34:33

that. I Completely agree

34:35

I did think this season there was some

34:38

kind of irony with him because like hunter

34:40

did that challenge where he's got to order

34:42

the Logos. Yeah, and like that challenge trades

34:44

on survivor history and having seasons with unique

34:47

identities Now you can do

34:49

that challenge because every logo is a number, you

34:51

know survivors like celebrating its history while You

34:54

know a facing that the marks they made

34:56

that history characteristic So it's kind of kind

34:58

of like an unfortunate like, you know, duh,

35:00

aha moment But

35:04

in terms of the Lulu tribe swap interesting

35:06

point that they would have introduced to the

35:08

safe Lulu I feel like recently

35:10

they've kind of been going for The

35:13

screwball tribe. My guy this is it's

35:15

a repeated thing that appears two tribes

35:17

are stacked one tribe is the Goobers

35:20

basically And

35:23

I'm wondering if they do it because they like have

35:25

a bunch of people who they don't know how vile

35:27

they're gonna be I want some make it through but

35:29

I would say that this season and you could say

35:32

okay Certainly like looking back at Lulu. Okay, that

35:34

was probably predictable But I really

35:37

felt like that coming into the

35:39

season. I thought that Yannu was

35:41

the strongest tribe I said wow You got

35:43

Q and Jelinski Bonu looks like he's in

35:45

great shape and Tiffany is strong and Jess

35:48

played rugby And I really

35:50

thought that they were going to be physically a

35:52

very strong team I did not see

35:54

them as just being such a disaster

35:58

That's a good point Like

36:00

the producers are not on God. They don't know how people

36:02

can react when they get out there. I

36:05

feel like what I've heard is that there's one bad beach

36:08

that they, and they try to like

36:11

give the bad beach to the team

36:13

that they think is like

36:15

physically not so good. I

36:19

lived on all the beaches. So I'd be curious,

36:21

which, what do you think? Is that not true?

36:24

No, it's not true. Every

36:26

beach has their respective strengths. So

36:28

the Riba Beach, which is the merge beach

36:30

this season, it

36:32

probably has like the least food on. I mean,

36:34

they have coconuts, obviously they have some breadfruit, some

36:36

jackfruit is there. What's

36:39

the crab situation? Crabs are

36:41

plentiful. Oh, okay. Beach also has the best

36:43

fish, right? So that's that's a pretty flush.

36:45

Because I thought maybe one of the reasons

36:47

why Liz has really faded is maybe she's

36:50

at a place that doesn't have anything that

36:52

she can eat. That's the best beach

36:54

for crabs. I mean, those guys really don't have much meat

36:56

on them, but there is food there for Liz. Yeah. Lulu

36:59

Beach has the most fruit, right?

37:02

And then, bellow beach is

37:04

kind of all around. Like it has got it's got

37:06

more fish than Lulu Beach, more crabs than Lulu Beach,

37:08

but like, you know, a little bit less fruit. So

37:11

I think the beaches are pretty even. I think

37:13

this is kind of just like people compensating on

37:15

the internet for like, how could one tribe suck

37:17

so much? Yeah. You know, and survivor doesn't necessarily

37:19

reward like clear cut strength. Like a

37:21

lot of the times people who are good on

37:23

survivor aren't like necessarily the strongest. Charlie's a great

37:26

example. And people are really strong like you actually

37:28

kind of suck at the challenges. How's your grip

37:30

strength through? It's

37:32

bad. You know, these preparers, man. On the

37:34

one hand, I got to admire it. I

37:36

should have done it. Like study the puzzles,

37:38

practice my grip. On the other hand, it's

37:40

like you're taking the fun out of the

37:42

game. That's how I feel about 50. Like

37:44

if you pregame for 50, you're a loser

37:46

and I know everyone's going to do it

37:49

anyways. But you guys seriously are losers because

37:51

I'm at camera, zooming in and out. You're

37:53

destroying the value and

37:55

the excitement of the game.

37:57

Like it's disappointing, you know, stop

37:59

practicing. just go out there, Survivor is

38:01

a test in its best form. It's like,

38:03

do I stack up? Am I a loser

38:05

or a winner? Can I survive the elements

38:08

like my primitive ancestors might have? Why

38:10

would you want to practice for that with your 3D printer? Well,

38:13

I think that this ties back into

38:15

the earlier conversation we're having about that

38:18

if the show is the same every

38:20

single season, then it makes it too

38:22

easy for people to prepare. And I

38:24

think that the truest test of who

38:27

is the best survivor should be keep

38:30

everybody on their toes like

38:32

it used to be and switch it up. I'm going

38:34

out there. I don't know. Am I going to play

38:36

two tribes or four tribes? Am I going to play

38:38

this versus that or whatever? Is

38:41

there going to be two tribe swaps? Is

38:43

there going to be three? Are they going

38:46

to throw something new at me and not

38:48

just, okay, we've perfected the wheel. This is

38:50

it. This is the format. I

38:52

mean, they're going to throw something new. First of all,

38:54

I'll put it on the record. I would be

38:56

shocked if season 50 is not a two tribe season. I'd

38:59

be shocked if it's three tribes. But

39:03

like the balance that you got to hold is number one,

39:05

we want the best players to win, which

39:08

means we want to avoid luck as much as possible. We

39:12

want it to be a game of skill. On

39:15

the other hand, if it's purely skill, right, if there's

39:17

no luck at all, it can make

39:20

for pretty boring TV. And

39:22

it also can be optimized. So

39:24

you got to take the both and

39:26

compromise between the two. This

39:28

is something and actually this is something I've been meaning

39:30

to say some controversial stuff. But

39:33

the best players don't win Survivor. The

39:36

best player on a season. I've

39:38

been waiting for somebody to say this

39:40

for a long time, Drew. This is

39:42

the advertiser. I mean, this is the

39:44

advertiser. I

39:46

mean, you're being sarcastic, right? I

39:49

mean, little a column A,

39:51

little a column B. Yeah. Yeah, this is

39:53

the common thread. But furthermore, not only do

39:56

the best players not win Survivor, but the

39:58

juries oftentimes make the right. wrong

40:00

decisions and they know it. I'm

40:02

not referring to season 45 but the jury is a very

40:06

flawed mechanic that produces a lot of

40:08

times bad winners that

40:10

then the edit has to go back

40:12

after the fact and justify. Okay, so

40:14

true. Can you tell us

40:17

sometimes that the jury got it wrong?

40:22

Uh, see some of this some of

40:24

the people are still in the in the community like

40:26

Russell Hance, jury got it wrong. That's that's

40:28

a Russell should Russell should have won.

40:30

Should have won. This is a hot

40:33

this is a controversial opinion. I think that at

40:35

the time people said, oh, Russell should

40:37

have won. But then really upon further review

40:39

and even I have gone back in sort

40:41

of like have have

40:43

why and I too had to be

40:46

like really convinced I rewatch Samoa. There's

40:48

definitely things that you know Natalie was

40:50

doing along the way. Natalie had a

40:52

plan. It was not a super exciting

40:54

plan and she executed on it. But

40:56

going back to our rubric of like

40:59

who does the jury like the best?

41:03

Well that's the thing because it's a

41:05

little more complicated than that because people always

41:07

say like jury management. Joe, you should have

41:09

had better jury management. What they don't realize

41:11

is that the game of survivor does not

41:14

end when you're voted off. People

41:16

are still playing survivor at the jury

41:18

villa and moreover people are still playing

41:20

survivor in the community to game for

41:22

a return. So what

41:24

you're really doing is letting all these people

41:26

get voted off very bitter

41:28

sit at a jury villa plot

41:31

together about what they could have done differently

41:33

who deserves the credit what their their edits

41:36

are gonna look like depending on who the

41:38

winner is and they socially interact and

41:40

then you get a winner based on that

41:42

separate game that is going on simultaneously. Yeah

41:44

that viewers are not privy to so

41:46

again this is not in reference to 45.

41:49

Dee is a fabulous

41:51

winner probably the best winner of the new

41:53

era perfect representation of our season. You

41:56

know I voted for Austin but Dee is as

41:58

deserving as it gets. reference

42:00

to our season. But the fundamental jury mechanic

42:02

is a problem that is endemic. And you

42:05

see it even in some new era seasons probably. Yeah.

42:08

Yeah, I wouldn't need to debate Samoa

42:11

too long. But that jury,

42:14

they hated Russell's guts. He was a stranger that

42:16

25 days goes by. They hate him

42:22

so much in that they're working

42:24

to make sure he does not win

42:26

the game from the jury. I just

42:29

think by that rubric,

42:31

he screwed something up royally.

42:34

Well, that's probably true. But I do call

42:36

Heroes versus Villains. I'm not that into the

42:38

lore. Yes. I do call Jerry coming

42:41

out of the game fully intent on

42:43

voting Russell. Yeah. And then being kind

42:46

of convinced slash berated by the jury

42:48

into no longer doing that. Yeah, I

42:50

mean, that'll happen. Yeah, sure. At Ponderosa,

42:52

people like there's definitely like, okay,

42:55

this is what we're doing. So yeah, there's

42:58

certainly a more perfect jury system, I think,

43:00

that they could come up with. The

43:03

point of all this is that luck is already a

43:06

huge part of the game that like, you know, it's

43:08

never going to be the best win. And so why

43:10

don't you break from like a format that tries to

43:12

optimize skill and throw a little more excitement in there?

43:14

That's my that's my pitch. And what is the way

43:16

to throw more excitement in there? Um,

43:20

changing tribes dynamics, so like the

43:22

starting tribe size, changing season size,

43:25

how many players are in there throwing in, throwing

43:30

in splits, swaps, that's

43:32

the term. And

43:35

something's got to be done about advantages. I don't

43:37

know what it is. This one, I don't have

43:39

an answer to but advantages are useless. I mean,

43:41

they're they're albatross. Yeah, well, what's going on here

43:43

with the idols in this season? Okay, so we

43:45

have the four idols this season. Every

43:51

idol has gone home unplayed with the person

43:53

who had it. Brandon,

43:56

then gem, then

43:59

hunter and now So I mean,

44:01

Ramdon obviously kind of a fluke case

44:03

there. The

44:06

idol is seen right now as like a

44:08

curse. It's like leprosy, you know? And

44:11

if you have the idol and everyone knows about

44:13

it, and you're not like Austin who has such

44:15

close people that don't even care, like good for

44:17

you, which is very rare. I really

44:19

think it's an anomaly. It makes

44:22

you a huge, huge target because nobody wants

44:24

to DB the ricochet. Everyone works way too

44:26

hard to get out there on Survivor to

44:28

risk going home by chance or fluke. So

44:32

you can't – I mean, we're now really at a

44:34

point where if you get an idol, you really can't

44:37

tell people, right? Like that's just the way the meta

44:39

has turned. All the advantages or other advantages are seen

44:41

as useless. Nobody cares if you have them. But

44:43

the idol is just the one that is just

44:45

like so hot right now it can't function. So

44:48

I think that one way that maybe Survivor could

44:50

fix this is like having less

44:52

hoopla and finding the idols, because right now

44:54

the idols are hidden in these kind of

44:57

precarious, complicated, Rube Goldberg-style

44:59

ways. And it results

45:01

in a lot of times having to enlist allies. And if

45:03

you have to enlist an ally to find the idol, all

45:05

the allies know that you have the idol and

45:08

don't want the idol in the game.

45:10

So you're basically forced to handicap yourself.

45:14

As I just get back to regular idols, I make them

45:16

look cool. Make them look like totems. I

45:19

don't want to keep seeing these little

45:21

measly things that Springs, a toddler, could

45:23

have put together. Like in the art

45:25

department, you're great, but this is all

45:27

conceit. The idea is that somebody will use a

45:29

fake idol. But there's so

45:31

much – can I swear on this? There's

45:33

so much shit on that island anyway. You

45:36

can make a fake ornate one too. Is

45:39

this, though, all these players going out

45:41

of the game with their idols, is

45:44

this a bug or is this a feature of the new era? Do

45:46

they do – because I have said this

45:49

for a long time, that Survivor

45:51

puts all of these

45:54

advantages into Survivor not

45:56

so that players can

45:58

play them correctly. I

46:01

think that survivor gets much more

46:03

mileage out of people who Misplay

46:06

the idols and the advantages

46:10

Well, yeah, do you listen to rap

46:12

Rob? You're a

46:14

rap. Oh, sometimes see not as much as

46:16

I do. Yes You know

46:18

this guy MF doom. He's a rapper. No for the word

46:20

play. You know this guy. I do not

46:23

I'm intrigued. Tell me about and then you think

46:25

that MF doom is famous for is Like

46:28

you've got really good flow and yet

46:30

has what does the MS stands for what I

46:32

think it stands for. I don't remember

46:36

But but he'll build towards a rhyme and the

46:38

rhyme is very obvious and then he'll say a

46:40

different word Right, he'll break it and it's so

46:43

it's like this sudden break that bit adds a

46:45

lot of a stunning value but that break that

46:48

that Disruption only is effective because you have

46:50

the rhymes to build up to it if

46:52

every idol fails Then

46:55

the failure is no longer exciting You

46:57

need the threat of the idol the anticipation of

47:00

the blind side for someone to go home with

47:02

it to be shocking By the time Tiffany goes

47:04

home with her idol. It's not shocking at all

47:06

because we've seen the same thing twice already Advantages

47:10

are much more exciting when they

47:12

work. That's the thing with the shot in the dark

47:14

the shot in the dark Every time it misses nobody

47:16

cares. It's meaningless. But when it hits,

47:18

oh my god, and it's not I feel

47:20

like I saw a picture One time you

47:22

did not seem to be particularly excited when

47:24

the shot in the dark hit right? I

47:26

was unbelievably pissed but from the perspective of

47:28

you from the perspective of a viewer It's

47:30

not that you know The anomaly

47:32

is exciting and if the shot in the dark hit

47:34

every time everyone be like, oh, this is stupid. This

47:37

is rigged It's just like, you know So

47:39

similarly the idol is exciting because it gets it it

47:42

works and then when it doesn't work That's like an

47:44

extra change up now. We're in this

47:46

situation where somebody actually plays the idol successfully

47:49

That's the exciting move, you know, and that

47:51

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chumbacasino.com No more to the same. We're losing

49:54

a lot of meetings. We're sure conditions are blocking you with everything. I

49:57

want to go back to Kenzie and...

50:00

Kenzie this week, we saw

50:02

that she got blindsided when

50:04

her ally Tiffany ended

50:07

up going out of the game. There was

50:09

some question as to whether or not Tiffany

50:13

could have, or that Kenzie could have

50:15

beaten Tiffany had they both sat in

50:17

the final three. And when we look back

50:19

at season 45, I'm

50:22

reminded a little bit of

50:24

the relationship with

50:26

Dee and Mama J.

50:29

And I think that there was probably some

50:32

legitimate question as to who would have won

50:34

had those two women both sat at the

50:37

end of the game in the final three.

50:40

And much like what we saw with Kenzie

50:42

this week, that Mama J went

50:44

out of the game, and

50:47

it was a big blindside to

50:50

Dee. And I'm just

50:52

wondering, not to say that

50:54

their positioning is similar, but in

50:57

any way, was this a favor to

50:59

Kenzie this week to have Tiffany go

51:01

out of the game? I

51:06

don't necessarily, I mean, in

51:09

the way that we're applying that it frees

51:11

up some breathing room for her at tribal

51:13

council, I don't necessarily agree

51:15

with that. It's a favor to

51:17

her in the sense that it now really

51:19

magnifies the target on Maria as the person who

51:21

pulled the move. And then in a season

51:23

where everybody's status hungry, that's

51:28

the sense what's your favorite. But again, I

51:30

mean, it really hamstrings, I think, Kenzie, because

51:32

who does Kenzie have now as a core

51:35

ally? Then, that's the closest? Well,

51:37

I want to circle back

51:39

to Kenzie specifically, but

51:43

I do feel like in

51:45

survivor history, when your number

51:47

one gets taken out in

51:50

a way that was a

51:52

blindside to you, often it

51:54

can be a good thing, especially

51:56

if it was a person that it was going to be

51:58

hard for you to... get

52:01

around. Let me just throw out some

52:03

examples of Cochrane and

52:05

Philip. You know, the three amigos they

52:07

play all their idols and they get Eric to flip and

52:13

Philip ends up going out of

52:15

the game. Not to say that

52:17

Philip would have beaten Cochrane at

52:19

the end but that was going

52:21

to... that was a thorny thing

52:23

for Cochrane to have to untangle

52:25

at some point without having a

52:27

bitter Philip go to the jury.

52:29

Instead, Philip is, you know,

52:31

singing Cochrane's praises into the jury

52:33

and an obstacle out of the

52:36

way. I think about Jeremy in

52:38

second chances with Savage and

52:40

that was going to be like ultimately like

52:42

there was going to be eventually

52:44

some sort of like jockeying for

52:46

position between the two of them

52:49

and Savage certainly had his enemies

52:51

but it was like still an

52:53

ally for Jeremy and then

52:56

Kelly Wentworth plays her idol. Savage

52:58

goes to the jury singing Jeremy's

53:00

praises and it ends up being a

53:02

great situation for Jeremy and of course, you

53:04

know, Natalie Anderson

53:06

herself with Jeremy where

53:09

then you know they're not seen as a

53:11

pair anymore and you know

53:13

even you know as I mentioned with Dee

53:15

last season. It's

53:18

a very... it's a good point. Getting

53:21

your closest ally out with no blood on

53:23

your hand put somebody on the jury who's

53:25

really gonna advocate for you which was my

53:27

logic with Emily, right? So I'm very sympathetic

53:29

to it. The problem that can happen is

53:31

like with my logic and Emily you can

53:33

very quickly find yourself in a position where

53:35

you're somebody who has win equity and

53:39

you have much, much less

53:41

social capital to protect you, protect that

53:43

win equity. So I

53:46

don't know. I don't know especially... I

53:48

don't see Pezi being targeted

53:51

next. I don't see

53:53

so either and I think it's based on the fact that

53:55

I'm not sure people think Kenzie has win equity. I

53:58

just recall a Bano typing up as a... mastermind.

54:00

Mermaid Dragon. Mermaid

54:03

Dragon. No more Mermaid Dragon now. Is

54:05

that because maybe like, people

54:07

don't agree? I don't know. But I you know,

54:09

it's just very like D was somebody

54:12

who was hyped up to be a threat. And

54:14

then people at the merge they got there and

54:16

like, wow, she's a threat. You know, she's she's

54:18

still she's still on people's minds. Kenzie was a

54:21

situation where she showed up and everyone's

54:23

like, somebody's

54:26

biggest threat. He was the biggest threat. So

54:28

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. This

54:31

is the threat. This is the mastermind.

54:33

That body was talking about.

54:35

The guy's a wackadoodle. No,

54:39

yeah, I agree. So again, the I

54:41

mean, it's really a kind of

54:45

essential question of the matter right now, which is like

54:47

taking out the number one ally and necessary move to

54:50

win, but also can burn

54:52

too much social capital. I

54:54

mean, I mean, whether you're taking it

54:57

out with that intentionally, like like Jesse

54:59

Cody or his accent, you know, I

55:01

think Kenzie's path to the win is

55:03

that Charlie takes out

55:05

Maria. Okay, and

55:07

maybe as soon as this week, maybe

55:10

Charlie says, okay, I you know, I

55:12

gotta make I gotta make my move.

55:14

Maybe it's maybe it's the final six.

55:16

Okay, we gotta like blindside Maria here.

55:19

And now Charlie is left all

55:21

alone. And then everybody turns

55:23

that sort of like a Jesse type

55:25

situation. And maybe that's maybe he doesn't

55:27

do it. Considering that what you had

55:30

said earlier about how that fall season

55:32

ends up. I mean, it really could

55:34

be like a Jesse Cody situation. Ultimately

55:36

for Charlie and Maria of Charlie

55:38

feels like, okay, I don't know if I can beat this

55:40

person. Do I take them out?

55:42

And if so, how? But

55:45

then how do I do it in a

55:47

way, but Charlie may be better positioned to

55:49

win some of those final immunity challenges than

55:51

Jesse. Yeah. That

55:54

that's very sharp. I do think

55:56

Charlie will continue to be immunity threat getting

55:59

to the end of the game. A lot of

56:01

times, especially if you're like in the middle of

56:03

the threat level, it's like a sandwich. You

56:06

want people to go on the top, but also

56:08

you need some people to go on the bottom too. So

56:11

that like, it's not just left at the

56:13

bottom. And so the real danger for Charlie

56:15

right now in the game, it's something he

56:17

knows, I'm sure Kenzie too, is the Ben

56:19

Liz Venus Final Three. That

56:22

all of them know they're on the kind of

56:24

on the bottom, they've been frustrated by their lack

56:26

of credit. And

56:28

they probably know they don't have much win equity

56:30

going into the going into the final section of

56:32

the game. So they know

56:34

that probably they need to go to the end

56:36

together if they're if they don't make a big move. So

56:40

somehow, if you're Charlie and Kenzie, you need

56:42

to find a way to pick off one

56:44

of those people on the bottom, right?

56:47

And that's a very hard thing to do. It's actually one of the

56:49

hardest moves to make at this stage of the game. Because

56:52

going for the easy vote, it's so tempting to

56:54

do the harder vote, make a move. But if

56:56

everyone just keeps making moves, those goats get to

56:58

the end, you have no shot. So

57:01

the riddle in the next two votes is

57:03

to figure out a pretense to get out

57:05

Liz, Venus or Ben. And

57:07

I don't know, I don't know. I think

57:09

that is the top priority rather than say

57:12

take out Maria. Yeah, it's

57:14

very hard. I mean, James Jones

57:16

always likes to reference, you know, Tony's

57:19

lions and hyenas. And

57:21

you know, if the hyenas could get on

57:23

the same page, like one

57:25

of them is could win this thing. You

57:28

know, if the four people that I feel like

57:30

that do not have a chance to win and

57:32

maybe Ben Ben is probably the best out of

57:34

those three, I think that Ben is like, but

57:36

hasn't done anything. Which

57:39

by my own, you know, tribal

57:41

council specifications, I feel like that he

57:44

would probably sweep the jury if he

57:46

got there with Liz and Venus. So

57:50

but you know, for Ben,

57:52

Venus, Q and Liz,

57:54

like those four should start to

57:56

have some conversations. For

57:59

sure. One of the amazing and

58:01

terrible things about New Era Survivor is that

58:03

the hyenas don't even need to get together

58:06

anymore. The lions tear each other apart and

58:08

then the vault, they're not hyenas, they're vultures.

58:11

They just wait around in the sky and then they come and

58:13

land. They don't even need to get together to

58:16

do the thing. You can just trust. Okay,

58:18

yes. I was talking about this on,

58:20

we do a patron call in, should I

58:22

take a lot of questions from the listeners.

58:25

We were talking about this a little bit

58:27

about the way

58:29

that these threats go out earlier

58:31

and earlier and it

58:34

didn't used to be the case that this would happen.

58:37

It really was like Survivor,

58:40

maybe other than your season in 45, it's

58:42

not really a battle of

58:44

alliances after the merge. It

58:47

really is like a pile on of like, okay, this

58:49

person is the biggest threat. Now this person is the biggest

58:51

threat. Now this person is the biggest threat. The

58:55

vultures as you very articulately

58:57

put it, that they just

58:59

get together. It's like, okay, we're from different tribes,

59:01

but like, okay, obviously this is the next person

59:03

to go. So take them out. I

59:08

think it's unfortunately part of the culture change.

59:10

Maybe it begins with casting because a lot of the

59:13

people I meet and the new era are very wonderful,

59:15

but they're rich. They have nice

59:17

jobs. They don't need the money.

59:19

They want to make a

59:22

name for themselves on social media. They want

59:24

the credit of being a legend and you're

59:26

a legend by making big moves. A

59:28

lot of times alliances are propped on reliable

59:30

and steady people who are not really interested

59:32

in building a career for themselves in reality

59:35

TV and who

59:37

would rather take a sure thing than like,

59:39

you know, a spot in the certain Comcast

59:41

survivor hall of fame. And

59:44

so again, when you just have like

59:46

big threat going after big threat going,

59:48

it's part of this ethos

59:51

of like, everything needs to be distinguishing.

59:53

I need to have my resume. Whereas

59:55

if you had people who, you Know,

59:59

like a little though closer than the

1:00:01

old old the olden days casting. I

1:00:03

think that you might that more alliance

1:00:05

based gameplay just because the show one

1:00:07

align space gameplay. Ah,

1:00:10

for a while they didn't and I

1:00:12

think now they do. I think they've

1:00:14

The show has realized that. On.

1:00:17

These building blocks, which were such

1:00:19

a vaunted discovery in the thirties

1:00:21

ah, actually, leads are kind of.

1:00:23

Less. Interesting gameplay when people figured it

1:00:25

out and that you need alliances. the whole

1:00:28

that's together on to make it to be

1:00:30

act which is the best friend intelligence and

1:00:32

there's there's there's a backflip. yeah I had

1:00:34

to get away from the strategy for a

1:00:37

second. As you say like as far as

1:00:39

like the conversation about what does the show

1:00:41

was it's it's hard because I think they

1:00:43

they want to different things and those zed

1:00:46

those two things are sort of at odds

1:00:48

with each other. I think that they want

1:00:50

and exciting blindside at Tribal Council every week

1:00:52

or a O M G. Moment and

1:00:55

every single episode of I

1:00:57

Can't Believe This Person with

1:00:59

homes But also I think

1:01:01

that they want a satisfying

1:01:03

winner at the end of

1:01:05

the season that they the

1:01:07

viewers are happy with as

1:01:09

they like. Okay good this

1:01:11

person deserves to win the

1:01:13

game but it's very hard

1:01:15

to age thirteen. Fourteen episodes

1:01:17

with exciting of tribal council,

1:01:19

blinds, sides and then ultimately

1:01:21

end up with one person.

1:01:24

That the audience feel like was the

1:01:26

person that they were happy Won the

1:01:28

game. I. Mean,

1:01:30

if it's a real, it's a real tight rope.

1:01:32

Ah, I'm. So you basically have

1:01:34

to have a season like Second Chance where everybody's

1:01:36

out, everybody, the player or you have to have

1:01:38

like a really competent winner own. Kind of like

1:01:41

heard the Goats a little bit. Ah,

1:01:43

I'm by no means is that that.

1:01:45

That's them. them. didn't want

1:01:48

to because you i typically if you go

1:01:50

back and look at the view that have

1:01:52

a season whereas like oh there was a

1:01:54

lot of exciting blinds sides or there was

1:01:56

a really great winner it's it's rare to

1:01:58

have boldly most gray point You know Earl

1:02:00

right like boring season great winner, you know,

1:02:03

because they're the the Tim so

1:02:05

you're that's that Redemption Island Yeah, yeah

1:02:09

I've been meaning to watch Rob on a dealer. No deal island,

1:02:11

but yeah, it's been good I'm

1:02:14

hoping he wins it. I'm hoping he wins

1:02:16

it. No spoilers. No spoilers still still two more weeks

1:02:18

ago on Dandy Well, I have to skip the VPN,

1:02:20

you know, and it's just it's not gonna happen, but

1:02:22

I I sent him my best, right? I know I

1:02:25

know you're watching this. I know you're a big fan of mine.

1:02:27

You know, I Pull it out. I never miss an episode Rob

1:02:31

as a podcast especially when the seal is

1:02:33

gonna be on yeah Well,

1:02:38

anyways, so the big meta Yeah,

1:02:41

very exciting. Very very meta.

1:02:43

Would you do any other shows besides

1:02:46

Survivor like Boston? Ram? I

1:02:49

would I would but it'd be a

1:02:51

hop-skip and a jump for you to go do the traders They

1:02:54

would never cast me I don't even think I'm getting on 50

1:02:56

I mean like But

1:03:00

I would certainly do other shows and That's

1:03:03

something that kind of we're gonna have to what about the goat

1:03:06

The goat what is the goat just started?

1:03:09

Oh, I love it. It's great. I'm

1:03:11

big fan big fan and my number

1:03:13

my phone number It's no,

1:03:16

I'm just no, I mean reality TV is

1:03:18

a lot of fun. It's a great time

1:03:21

You can make a lot of money doing it. So that's

1:03:23

well somebody wants to be a novelist And

1:03:27

you know, we'll have to we'll have to see what

1:03:29

this coming year holds Rob That's all I

1:03:31

can all I can say it's a

1:03:33

room times reality TV. Interesting. Okay, those

1:03:35

are a cryptic Yeah, I

1:03:37

was I know. Okay Let's

1:03:40

talk about the big moment as a writer

1:03:43

Okay, could you have come up with

1:03:45

this story that we got this week

1:03:47

where we have this woman? Liz

1:03:51

who has Many food

1:03:53

allergies and here she is

1:03:55

out on survivor.

1:03:57

There's nothing that they give her

1:04:00

that she can eat. In fact, the

1:04:03

woman, our protagonist, has so many

1:04:05

food allergies, the only thing

1:04:08

on earth that she can eat is an

1:04:12

Applebee's hamburger. Enter

1:04:15

the thing that she has preyed on.

1:04:18

In fact, Applebee's hamburger is not just

1:04:20

the only thing that she can eat,

1:04:22

it's also the thing that connects her

1:04:25

most to her home, to her loved

1:04:27

one, to her daughter. They

1:04:29

go, her and the daughter go

1:04:31

to Applebee's every week as part

1:04:33

of her survivor watching

1:04:36

experience. So really, the through line

1:04:38

in her entire survivor journey happens

1:04:40

to be an

1:04:42

Applebee's hamburger. So

1:04:45

here, and wouldn't you, the

1:04:48

amazing luck, can you believe it,

1:04:50

Applebee's is back, a sponsor of

1:04:52

Survivor. And now here comes the

1:04:55

chance for Liz to be

1:04:57

able to have the

1:04:59

very thing that she has

1:05:01

coveted for this entire experience

1:05:03

and then one man stops

1:05:06

her from having the

1:05:08

thing that she desires most. Could you have written

1:05:11

this? Not only stops

1:05:13

her, but refuses to let other

1:05:15

people change places. Which by

1:05:17

the way, I think is mechanically incorrect. I'm

1:05:20

a gripe with this. But refuses

1:05:22

to let other people change places. It

1:05:25

was brutal. First of all, Rob, what

1:05:27

is the party line on this? What was your reaction

1:05:29

to this scene? Well, I

1:05:31

loved it. I thought it was

1:05:33

just this was the epitome of

1:05:35

survivor to me. I thought this

1:05:38

was everything that was great about

1:05:40

Survivor in one moment

1:05:42

that I feel like it

1:05:44

was transcendent. It

1:05:48

was really a crescendo. And I

1:05:51

guess I'm a bad person because it was

1:05:53

hilarious. It was hilarious. I mean, to me,

1:05:55

this was Iconic Survivor. And

1:05:57

I Feel like that sometimes. In

1:06:00

Survivor the things that we remember

1:06:02

most the most important moments in

1:06:04

the show. The things that are

1:06:06

that really do transcend the game

1:06:08

are. Natalie.

1:06:10

Tonight have your jacket. Yeah. This

1:06:13

was that no no you cannot use

1:06:15

like I'm leaving I don't even needs

1:06:18

is Jackie where I'm going and know

1:06:20

you can't have it. Illicit.

1:06:23

I mean the promise of survivors always

1:06:25

been not just hot people in bathing

1:06:27

suits which. Maybe. Maybe

1:06:29

has been sidelined a little bit

1:06:31

when also has been desperation and

1:06:34

and poverty and suffering. So.

1:06:36

Like you know that sells as a big

1:06:38

core part of the game that is because

1:06:41

neglected and recent years and you see it

1:06:43

would let you see it with the jacket.

1:06:45

Like desperation bring people too low as a

1:06:47

morbid curiosity that. So.

1:06:49

I loved it. I would love to

1:06:51

know your of perception on her as

1:06:54

I don't know how like in the

1:06:56

weeds you are on the social media

1:06:58

reaction but I feel like that

1:07:00

this is a moment's is as. A

1:07:03

as an i don't know who was may be. Like.

1:07:06

This from the meadow perspective. I think this

1:07:08

is interesting to talk about that. I'm.

1:07:10

Wonder if if this moment happened

1:07:12

twenty five years without Jonny Fairplay

1:07:14

Dead Grandma is like another. like

1:07:16

a great example of this of

1:07:18

just like either these moments that

1:07:20

exists like outside the games. and

1:07:22

okay so with. That. If.

1:07:26

If if lives did not yell

1:07:28

at you with this have been

1:07:30

proceed it any different with where

1:07:32

are where I saw on social

1:07:34

media the eyes of the word

1:07:36

like work like myself just loved

1:07:38

the what happens but not relic

1:07:40

are not like finger wagging its

1:07:42

to or anything like that but

1:07:44

if i sat there was any

1:07:46

negative reactions this i i said

1:07:48

negative reaction towards Liz of being

1:07:50

inside old oh I'm a be

1:07:52

a you know having his hand

1:07:54

from and being a baby. listen

1:07:58

it is very to get

1:08:00

pissy about not being chosen to rule board from

1:08:03

personal experience. You know, I

1:08:05

get it. But you

1:08:07

know, you don't have an obligation. I think that Liz probably

1:08:09

would have gotten a much better reaction from the fans. It

1:08:11

sounds like she did. If

1:08:14

she had like held her tongue, yeah,

1:08:16

or had been more like reasonable with

1:08:18

it. Like, like, you know how much

1:08:20

this means to me, like, and I

1:08:23

can't eat, I'm really disappointed. Yeah. Like

1:08:25

that, that's hard to, you know, that's

1:08:27

hard to rebut. But like to like

1:08:29

blow your top and then immediately be like,

1:08:31

you voted for me. I just have nothing

1:08:34

coming back to have nothing as painful.

1:08:36

It reminds me a little bit of like the feud

1:08:39

with like Owen and James. And

1:08:41

who you got to jog my memory. Who was it who was

1:08:44

like, why won't you work with me? And the other person was

1:08:46

like, you keep voting for me. Was it

1:08:48

high in Romeo? Maybe

1:08:50

I felt like it was like Owen wanted to be looped

1:08:53

in the plan. And James was like, you keep voting for

1:08:55

me. Maybe I'm imagining this. But

1:08:57

yeah, I think that that was

1:09:00

that when James didn't tell Owen

1:09:02

the plan. And then I

1:09:04

don't remember if Owen wrote down James's name at

1:09:07

the tribal council. Like it's like, well, you told

1:09:09

me a fake plan. Either

1:09:12

way, what

1:09:14

I really am wondering is if this episode aired

1:09:16

in 2005. Okay.

1:09:19

What would what same exact way?

1:09:21

What would the reaction have been

1:09:23

more favorable to Liz? Or

1:09:26

less favorable to Liz?

1:09:28

2005 would have

1:09:30

hated Q like Saddam

1:09:32

Hussein. Like, like anybody

1:09:35

Q would have been like on

1:09:37

the FBI most wanted list in

1:09:39

2005. So anything that Q would

1:09:41

have done to alienate another person

1:09:44

would just be another excuse for

1:09:46

the mob. So I

1:09:48

think the people would have been more sympathetic to Liz

1:09:50

for that reason. Yeah. But I think we've come a

1:09:53

long way. I feel like not to pat ourselves on

1:09:55

the back, but I kind of feel like that that

1:09:57

Q where And

1:10:00

there was the whole discourse coming into the season

1:10:02

of Jeff had said When in

1:10:04

talking with me and a couple other interviews he

1:10:06

didn't want to cast the villains But

1:10:09

I don't like we have Q who if Q had

1:10:11

you know Like

1:10:14

like not give it Liz the burger,

1:10:16

you know 20 some odd

1:10:18

years ago like I think that the reaction

1:10:20

would have been very probably unfavorable So I

1:10:23

think that that like like we've come a

1:10:25

long way At the

1:10:27

same time though Liz would have been what it was

1:10:29

would have got some flack I mean like like like

1:10:32

we still today are like like the dingo

1:10:34

ain't my baby You know That's sort of

1:10:36

expression people say and like that woman like

1:10:39

with the stare of life They're losing her child like that

1:10:41

way I mean if ever there was a time to be

1:10:43

to be freaked out the same way like That

1:10:48

could have been that easily could have been

1:10:50

something that people said it like that at

1:10:52

the water cooler Drew can I run past

1:10:54

you my my pitch for Liz this week

1:10:56

and Did

1:10:59

this is what I think Liz should have done I haven't

1:11:02

seen anybody poke like a major

1:11:04

hole in it yet I think

1:11:06

that Liz should have gone to tribal council and stood

1:11:10

up and said Tiffany you

1:11:12

need to play your idol tonight. They're

1:11:15

blindsided you Maria Charlie Ben Q. They

1:11:17

wrote your name down and You

1:11:21

Gotta play the idol tonight. You're gonna go

1:11:23

home. Yeah, I mean well first

1:11:25

of all she says this after the votes right after

1:11:28

the votes are cast okay Full-proof

1:11:30

absolutio to the move reminds me a little

1:11:32

bit of what Dean did for Tommy and

1:11:34

39. I think remind me I It's

1:11:38

been years. Oh, this is like at the

1:11:41

This is when Carish mo

1:11:43

went home. I I believe

1:11:46

is that I Don't I

1:11:48

and they certainly like a live tribal Unfold

1:11:51

who's gonna go home. Yeah, and Dean was

1:11:53

like you should play your idol develop

1:11:56

make things a little more spiciness Absolutely,

1:11:58

Liz totally should have done done that,

1:12:00

she knows she's on the bottom. And

1:12:02

the reality is she was holding too much of

1:12:04

a grudge against you to make what was the

1:12:06

very sensible strategic move. I always say

1:12:09

this, I think it's very true. I think it holds a

1:12:11

lot of cases. Holding

1:12:13

a grudge is the trademark of bad gameplay.

1:12:15

I don't want to say that player, everyone,

1:12:17

you know, we all have that person who

1:12:19

puts their buttons, but the trademark of bad

1:12:22

gameplay, if you hold a grudge, that's always

1:12:24

somebody I kind of like highlight like, okay,

1:12:26

they're not they're not gonna win. No, because

1:12:28

you got to be very flexible. So it's

1:12:30

unfortunate that Liz didn't make what you have

1:12:32

correctly identified as like the absolute optimal strategic

1:12:34

move. Yeah, I mean, you have to have

1:12:37

you have to have forgiveness in

1:12:39

survivor also, you know, that

1:12:42

somebody like they if they wrong

1:12:44

you, I don't know

1:12:46

if you can just like say that they're dead

1:12:48

to you and you can never work with them

1:12:50

again. You know, I watched a YouTube

1:12:52

video recently. And I know

1:12:55

that this is, you know, of course, all

1:12:57

wisdom comes from I saw a tik tok,

1:12:59

I watched a YouTube video, I got stuff

1:13:01

on YouTube. But and, and I

1:13:04

wish I had like more of the

1:13:06

specifics. But basically, like they they what

1:13:08

they did was they tested like the

1:13:10

prisoner's dilemma, they said like, basically, like

1:13:12

the prisoner's dilemma is the

1:13:15

ultimate game of cooperation.

1:13:18

And basically, because in a prisoner's

1:13:20

dilemma, you work together, you do

1:13:22

more. But if you

1:13:24

screw the other person over, you actually

1:13:26

can score more points, but then the

1:13:28

other person so like in if the

1:13:30

prisoner's dilemma is every round, we choose

1:13:32

to work together, we both get three

1:13:35

points. But if I screw you and

1:13:37

you don't screw me, I get

1:13:39

five points and we both screw each other, we get

1:13:41

no points like that's basically like

1:13:43

how like on and they tested

1:13:47

every single possible strategy there

1:13:49

is in the ongoing game

1:13:51

of prisoners dilemma

1:13:54

of the like sneak attack, I'm going

1:13:57

to screw you I'll screw every turn

1:13:59

I never you, you screw every

1:14:01

five turns, you know, and they

1:14:04

tested out every single thing. And

1:14:06

what they found was that the

1:14:08

best strategy

1:14:10

was a very simple one

1:14:12

and it was tit for tat of

1:14:15

like, I don't screw you and then

1:14:17

if you screw me, I screw you back

1:14:19

once and then that's it. And

1:14:22

that's it. And then we have to go

1:14:24

back to working together. And

1:14:27

I just feel like that for Tiffany

1:14:30

and for Kenzie, they closed the book on Q

1:14:32

and he was

1:14:34

still a number. And I think that they

1:14:36

probably had the best like and Q wanted to get back to

1:14:38

working with them and they closed the door on

1:14:40

his face. Not only did

1:14:42

they was he still a number, but he fully intended

1:14:45

on working with them. He came to them with a

1:14:47

hat in hands like a like a child who would,

1:14:49

you know, commit some misdeed. I'm

1:14:51

coming back to like their parents. When

1:14:54

you get gifted a number like that with

1:14:56

no other options, why would you

1:14:58

possibly let it, you know, tell

1:15:00

them screw off so he gets scooped up by

1:15:02

your opposition? Yeah, like it recalls

1:15:04

45 again, because it's the only season of survivor

1:15:06

I've played. But you have these two kind of

1:15:08

hopeless people in the middle who is everyone that's

1:15:10

clocked immediately for who they are and what kind

1:15:12

of game they're playing. And you have that. Who

1:15:15

are the two hopeless people in the middle? Emily

1:15:18

and Caleb, who Emily had

1:15:21

had her reputation smeared during

1:15:25

the pre merge. And

1:15:27

then Caleb was so transparently charismatic and

1:15:29

strategic that like everyone, you know, treated

1:15:31

him with, you know, wisdom distance with

1:15:34

some other minutes. So the

1:15:36

point is that like, that's kind of the

1:15:38

Q situation where you have somebody between two

1:15:40

collisions who was totally clocked. And

1:15:43

instead of I mean, granted, I did go after

1:15:45

Caleb, but instead of just like, if

1:15:48

these two collisions are against each other, why,

1:15:50

why, why alienate the people in the middle? So they'll go

1:15:52

the opposite direction. You want to attract them? Um,

1:15:55

not what I would

1:15:57

do. Yeah, no, didn't you tell me that?

1:16:00

Take out the middle player, what do you say? Look,

1:16:03

I'm a big believer in I

1:16:05

want to keep up keep all the

1:16:07

options open I don't

1:16:10

want to like like alienate this person. I'm never gonna

1:16:12

work with you Yeah, never

1:16:14

know. I agree. I

1:16:17

agree completely. Um, I Mean

1:16:20

just it might my personal gameplay philosophy. I'm the

1:16:22

kind I feel like I'm the kind of player

1:16:25

First of all, not not a particularly

1:16:27

skilled player But I'm the kind

1:16:29

of player who is going to like if I find a good

1:16:31

thing like I'll buy the house I'm not gonna rent also. Yeah

1:16:36

in terms of like keeping my options open, but

1:16:39

Again Q comes to Tiffany and comes

1:16:41

to Kenzie with nothing and they just

1:16:43

turned him away out of a grudge

1:16:45

Yeah, and Tiffany got as

1:16:47

clear a to b karma as you can

1:16:50

get on survivor. So You

1:16:52

know, it's unfortunate and it's kind of a

1:16:54

testament to the real lights out a strategic

1:16:56

game that Charlie and Maria are playing Yeah,

1:16:58

I mean, but there's a world where Tiffany

1:17:01

and Kenzie, you know could have got back

1:17:03

together with Q and they could have blindside

1:17:05

Maria There's a there's

1:17:07

a pack of a world. I mean you're just talking about they watch

1:17:09

44 where Jam

1:17:11

Jam and Carolyn like like two dogs barking to

1:17:14

each other with would bicker constantly and then make

1:17:16

up to make the right strategic move Yeah,

1:17:19

like like it should have been front of mind And

1:17:22

it's just it's very painful that they did it because

1:17:24

I think that that group those three

1:17:26

if they had Really worked

1:17:28

together would have won out over Siga because

1:17:30

Kenzie is close to Ben Ben I mean Kenzie,

1:17:32

I think if that probably could be Ben's

1:17:34

number one ally at this point and

1:17:39

They would have pulled Venus over Over

1:17:42

Maria because Venus Maria don't like each other

1:17:44

So again, it's painful to watch people have

1:17:46

an open shot and toss the ball

1:17:48

on the sidelines Go

1:17:51

back to the pre-merge from this season

1:17:54

anything on your mind in terms of the

1:17:57

seasons less Lovable

1:18:00

first half? Yeah,

1:18:03

the terrible first half Supported

1:18:07

by a great a great a great merge

1:18:10

Like some other seasons like like Cara Moan what

1:18:12

you mentioned earlier. Mm-hmm I don't know

1:18:14

the interesting interesting characters I really get a sense

1:18:16

that the dynamic on that early on the beach

1:18:18

was was toxic was really psychologically

1:18:21

tough And

1:18:23

I feel bad, especially for Jess who was one

1:18:25

of my favorites of the pre-merge Um,

1:18:29

it's a shame that we didn't get to see the other tribes go

1:18:31

to tribal Yeah, cuz it

1:18:33

result. I mean like I would have loved to see

1:18:35

that orange tribe. No and Then

1:18:38

Jelinski Jelinski is kind of the pre merge pre

1:18:41

merge star the darling of the pre merge. Oh

1:18:43

my god It's it's

1:18:45

been milk too much. The cow is dry, you

1:18:47

know, the milk is spoiled I'm ready for it

1:18:49

to be over but gray TV for

1:18:51

an episode, you know, you got it. You got to

1:18:53

appreciate him I don't

1:18:56

know. What was your assessment of the pre merge? Yeah,

1:18:58

you know I was trying to like keep on a

1:19:00

brave face for the first Three

1:19:02

weeks and then that's that fourth and final

1:19:04

week of all Bonnie like I think really

1:19:06

think that what? production

1:19:09

Got wrong was Randin

1:19:12

he ended up like

1:19:14

needing to be medically evacuated Still

1:19:17

send y'all into tribal council because

1:19:19

really they just basically like delayed

1:19:21

the execution For another week and

1:19:23

really we just lost a lot

1:19:26

of momentum It took a lot

1:19:28

for people to get back on

1:19:30

board with this season people like

1:19:32

at that point We're I'm gonna

1:19:34

stop watching this is it, you

1:19:37

know survivors over and so people

1:19:39

were very very down I

1:19:41

know that production is worried about

1:19:43

okay We're going to run out

1:19:45

of people potentially if we get like

1:19:48

unlucky and get another medical evacuation It

1:19:51

but you know, then you don't have to do a

1:19:53

double tribal in one episode So

1:19:55

I think that there were they had other ways

1:19:57

around it, you know, I don't know if they

1:19:59

were trying to protect against some sort of like worst

1:20:02

case scenario where two more people get medically

1:20:04

evacuated but it's only a 26 day game.

1:20:08

It's already day six, day seven. I

1:20:10

think you could have had Rand and

1:20:12

go home and still have Banu go

1:20:15

to tribal council and you

1:20:17

know that Q says, hey, it

1:20:20

wasn't going to be Banu. But based off

1:20:22

of what we've learned about Q, I don't

1:20:25

think that he is a reliable

1:20:27

narrator. No, he's not. He's

1:20:29

retconning everything. And I think that the reason

1:20:31

why they didn't send them to tribal was

1:20:34

that like, you know, they

1:20:37

saw the potential. Like here's Banu who

1:20:39

literally gets on his hands and knees

1:20:41

and the seaches God for a

1:20:43

second chance. And

1:20:46

then he's given one divine smiting.

1:20:48

Ramsden is smited from God

1:20:51

paralyzed and Banu gets to make

1:20:53

another day. It's very biblical. And so production looked

1:20:55

at that and said, oh my God, you know,

1:20:57

what is really a million hearts? He

1:21:00

really could do it. We got to give him another

1:21:02

another another window through. Yeah. And then

1:21:04

and then they lost, you know, and so it was a high risk,

1:21:07

high reward strategy to like, I mean, I

1:21:09

don't know if it was high reward, but

1:21:11

I think we would have gotten a very

1:21:13

different Banu if Banu had made it farther.

1:21:15

Yeah, but they just they totally busted where

1:21:18

then immediately at the start of the next

1:21:20

episode, Banu ends up saying like, hey, I

1:21:22

when I went on the journey, I said,

1:21:24

Q and Tiffany are a tight duo and

1:21:26

Kenzie is the mastermind. They're like, all right,

1:21:28

that's it. Yeah. Cancel

1:21:31

Christmas. Yeah. Um,

1:21:33

but I mean, think of think of

1:21:35

Carolyn. Yeah, I can imagine a time

1:21:38

literally three years ago, where

1:21:40

Carolyn, like everyone else in her archetype

1:21:42

would have been savaged by the edit

1:21:44

and the viewers. Savage.

1:21:47

We've never had a character like Carolyn because

1:21:49

every time people like that come up on

1:21:51

the show, they're edited very uncharitably and

1:21:53

made a laughingstock. So I

1:21:56

think that survivors really egos are eager to capture

1:21:58

that like lightning in a bottle again. with

1:22:00

like somebody who previously they would have been

1:22:02

very vicious to and maybe

1:22:05

they saw that with with Bono and it didn't it

1:22:07

didn't pan out you know and we all had to

1:22:09

suffer the consequences for four and a half hours.

1:22:11

Drew something else that's been on my mind

1:22:13

this season it feels like to me that

1:22:16

the people that have gone on the journeys

1:22:18

this season and I have

1:22:20

like been my my take on the journeys

1:22:23

was you're coming into your season don't go

1:22:25

on the journeys journeys are bad more

1:22:28

to lose on the journey than there

1:22:30

is to gain but I really feel

1:22:32

like in survivor 46 that the

1:22:35

players have gone on the journeys and

1:22:37

have made some tight

1:22:39

bonds I feel like that Tevin

1:22:41

and Maria really you know

1:22:43

found a bond it didn't really

1:22:46

manifest yet with Ben and Liz when

1:22:48

they went there with Bono but

1:22:51

then we saw the six get

1:22:53

made at the journey of the

1:22:56

cross tribal between Tim and Hunter

1:22:58

and Q I know

1:23:00

in your season you went on a journey

1:23:03

it did not seem like there

1:23:06

was that type of relationship

1:23:08

building that happened and I'm

1:23:10

wondering if that is more of a

1:23:12

factor of 46 or that I mean you

1:23:15

spoke about how you felt like that Bruce

1:23:18

played things very you know close to the

1:23:20

vest when you went to the journey what

1:23:23

was it more of a issue of like that

1:23:26

you know a Bruce didn't want

1:23:28

to necessarily play ball well

1:23:31

I mean it was interesting

1:23:33

because at the journey we had three

1:23:35

different strategies going in so

1:23:37

Brandon just told us everything which I

1:23:40

thought was shocking and

1:23:42

Bruce gave absolutely nothing and I lied about

1:23:44

everything in the tribe dynamic which is why

1:23:47

you can go rewatch 45 if you if you

1:23:49

someday in the far future survivors chance

1:23:51

and you're like the good old days um

1:23:53

you'll notice that rebut never is shown

1:23:55

describing their tribe dynamics in

1:23:57

public because we lied about it constantly right so they did

1:23:59

didn't have any actual footage that could be used to explain

1:24:01

it like they did for the other ones. So anyways, that

1:24:04

was my tactic. Um, the

1:24:07

journey did not actually go well for

1:24:09

me socially, because Bruce came back from

1:24:11

that journey, really with the heebie

1:24:13

jeebies about me. And he

1:24:16

really buried me to his, his

1:24:18

whole tribe. And then we got together at the Merged

1:24:20

Feast. I was like, Bruce, what the fuck? You know, like,

1:24:23

why? Like at the Merged Feast? I was like, why

1:24:25

did you why did you do that to me? Now

1:24:27

Brandon told me everything. Um, so

1:24:30

again, the journeys are really

1:24:32

about advantages. They're about advantages. And if you're lucky

1:24:34

enough to get some kind of social compact that

1:24:36

emerges, it's a fluke, you know, Rihanna

1:24:39

and, and Shan, okay, great social bond

1:24:41

that happened in the journeys, they got

1:24:43

lucky. But don't bank on it.

1:24:45

The journeys are gonna hurt you socially as often as

1:24:47

they help you socially, you know, it's really about the

1:24:49

advantage and everything else is a bonus. Um,

1:24:52

I don't I don't think it's some like,

1:24:56

you think of exile, the exile, you know, here

1:24:58

was an alliance that bought it on the journey,

1:25:00

and then it turned into nothing, nothing came of

1:25:02

it. You

1:25:05

could probably count on one hand with three fingers,

1:25:07

the amount of times these, these cross tribal

1:25:10

alliances have actually manifested into any Yeah. But

1:25:12

don't you think it's a good idea? Like, don't you think it could

1:25:14

work? Well, look

1:25:17

at Jelinski, you know, he goes on the

1:25:19

journey, and his options are either alienate to

1:25:21

other people or lose

1:25:23

his vote, you know, because your options like hunter

1:25:26

are do the challenge and lose making everyone think

1:25:28

that you probably have something because you're so good

1:25:30

at challenges, we're not going to believe you, or

1:25:35

go home with nothing. And then I have to

1:25:37

have the same problem. Like the social consequences are

1:25:39

so overbearing that

1:25:42

like, I feel like it's kind of survivorship bias

1:25:44

to like, look at the few times the journeys

1:25:46

going well, and then like, Oh, you know, clearly,

1:25:48

it must be a social benefit to

1:25:50

go on the journey. Yeah, the journey's about the advantage.

1:25:52

But I just know from

1:25:55

when I interviewed Mariah this season, okay,

1:25:57

one of the reasons that Mariah felt

1:25:59

like that emerge that she was

1:26:01

a target was because she had not

1:26:03

been on a journey and she did

1:26:05

not have anybody feeling like, hey, oh

1:26:07

no, like I've got a good

1:26:09

thing with Mariah. Like no, there was nobody

1:26:11

like even nobody, there was nobody really on

1:26:13

Siga that was really going to bat for

1:26:16

her. And there was nobody from the other

1:26:18

tribes that was really trying to, uh, that

1:26:20

was invested in seeing her stick around. You

1:26:23

know, and I love Mariah,

1:26:26

but if, if the problem for

1:26:28

having no one to bat for you was, it

1:26:31

was cause I didn't go on a journey. Like you have

1:26:33

bigger problems. You're not going

1:26:35

to build a bond in 15 minutes of

1:26:37

talking with each other on a journey that

1:26:40

is going to save you in mergatory. Part

1:26:42

of why the three tribe format is bad is because

1:26:44

it buries the underdogs, right? If you're on the bottom

1:26:47

of your tribe, as soon as you get to mergatory,

1:26:49

you're tossed if you don't lose, win that challenge. So

1:26:52

I don't know. I mean, they, we don't spend that

1:26:54

much time together in the journeys anymore. You know, it's

1:26:56

not like exile Island where you got a weekend together,

1:26:58

like some, some like honeymoon. Um, the just the two

1:27:00

of you out in the, out in the wilderness.

1:27:03

Um, it's like 15 minutes max.

1:27:05

So I, I think that

1:27:07

I would love for it to be true. I would make the

1:27:09

game a lot more fluid, but alas, I think it is, I

1:27:11

think it is, um, kind of somebody

1:27:13

looking for an eye looking for explanations. Okay. I

1:27:16

want to go back to you, Drew. Uh, let's go

1:27:18

back. Let's go back to survivor 45. What's

1:27:22

the biggest misconception that people have about

1:27:24

you and your game from 45? I

1:27:29

don't know. Um, I,

1:27:34

you know, it's, it's, it's frustrating a

1:27:36

little bit because I feel

1:27:38

like I did not have a

1:27:40

coherent story on 45, you know,

1:27:43

which is one thing. I mean, you tell me

1:27:45

if you think I'm wrong on anything or the

1:27:47

fan reception, which is one thing if you don't

1:27:49

have a lot of time, you know, like you're,

1:27:51

you're under edited, but to be edited

1:27:54

very, very prominently and not to have

1:27:56

a coherent story can be very frustrating

1:27:58

because it basically just means that like

1:28:00

anyone can make any judgments about you,

1:28:02

you know, in your game. And

1:28:06

you're there and yet it's not really articulated like

1:28:08

the Kelly move. I was pretty proud of the

1:28:10

Kelly move. We got we got almost no

1:28:12

information about it. I felt on 45. Like, they

1:28:16

didn't know what to do with me. And they

1:28:18

wanted to make me seem like a little silly,

1:28:20

like a little foolish. And

1:28:23

yet they didn't really have like the material

1:28:25

to do that. Because like, I wasn't getting

1:28:27

negative like second person perspective, I was succeeding

1:28:30

strategically. And so I

1:28:32

was kind of a middle zone. Yeah, so I

1:28:34

don't like what they were going for, for your

1:28:36

story. And you know, it's

1:28:38

up to the audience to say whether they

1:28:40

accomplished it was that I think that we

1:28:42

sort of like got in the very first

1:28:44

episode about how you know, you were, you

1:28:48

know, somewhere between Drew

1:28:51

and the seal. And

1:28:53

you were, you know, the guy who,

1:28:55

you know, you're not used to

1:28:57

being invited to the party. But

1:28:59

here you are now part of the

1:29:01

party we saw during guys night, we

1:29:04

saw there with your relationship with Austin

1:29:06

that you were sort of like getting

1:29:08

to be experience

1:29:10

this party

1:29:14

adventure, what you will. And

1:29:16

you know, you know, you

1:29:19

had a little bit of like a growth

1:29:21

arc in terms of what I

1:29:23

got. Ah, then

1:29:25

again, and he got too confident as pledge class

1:29:27

president. Maybe. Yeah. And then

1:29:30

I did, I did. I'll be the first to

1:29:32

admit it. The

1:29:34

thing about survivor, and

1:29:36

why I'm so hesitant to answer that question is

1:29:38

that like, I have no idea what I'm really

1:29:40

like, and when I perceive I have no

1:29:43

idea. So maybe I maybe I was

1:29:45

like, I was edited, you know, I'm inclined to give

1:29:47

them the benefit of the doubt, because I felt like

1:29:49

everyone else out there was edited fairly, more

1:29:52

or less that Bruce got a tough deal. A

1:29:56

survivor, I mean, it's painful, because like, I

1:29:59

this was my dream. for a decade. And

1:30:01

I got so close to achieving it, I failed,

1:30:03

and I'll never get the chance to succeed. It

1:30:05

will never happen. So that's a that's

1:30:07

a hard, hard thing to deal with. I'm

1:30:10

extremely grateful though, for the opportunity to play.

1:30:12

I can remember going out of the game

1:30:14

and at my final words, you know, being

1:30:16

very, very done with the whole experience. They

1:30:18

were like, Can you give us a metaphor?

1:30:20

And I was like, No, no,

1:30:24

metaphors are over. But I was like, maybe

1:30:26

I'll get the chance to grow. I can

1:30:28

constantly say that despite what I thought at the

1:30:30

time and for the month afterwards, like huge growth

1:30:32

experience. I'm very grateful. Yeah. Well,

1:30:35

Drew, I hate

1:30:38

to hear you like describe the experience

1:30:40

like that. Because there's so many, there's

1:30:42

so many of us who have gone

1:30:44

through this. And I think that like

1:30:46

myself and Steven is

1:30:48

probably another like, great example of

1:30:51

this, that yet there are only

1:30:54

where we have 46 and 44 different

1:30:56

people have gotten to have the experience

1:30:58

that you described and go talk to

1:31:01

a number of those 44 people.

1:31:03

And they'll tell you they have all sorts of like,

1:31:05

Oh, but I didn't get shown my

1:31:07

my they didn't show my win the

1:31:10

right way. So there's probably

1:31:12

like a total of like eight people that

1:31:14

feel like yeah, they nailed it. I got

1:31:16

I got exactly what I wanted. They nailed

1:31:18

it everything 10 out of 10. No notes.

1:31:21

But you know, you

1:31:23

you know, got to you got to

1:31:26

go and have this experience and you

1:31:28

did very, you did very, very well.

1:31:31

And you know, you're going to go

1:31:33

and you're doing all of these

1:31:36

other things. And I feel

1:31:38

like I say this with so many of the young

1:31:40

people that come through Survivor Now, this

1:31:42

is going to be a footnote in

1:31:44

your career at the end. They

1:31:47

may not look that the best

1:31:49

case scenario. They don't even

1:31:52

talk about Survivor in your eulogy. In your

1:31:56

obituary. Yeah, very true. Well,

1:32:02

one thing I wanted to say, look

1:32:04

at us now on a podcast. I would have

1:32:07

thought that was possible. So

1:32:09

it doesn't go... My

1:32:15

first time went, other than winning the game,

1:32:17

went as perfect as it could have gone.

1:32:19

And then I got fortunate enough to go

1:32:22

back to have it be a

1:32:24

not so great experience. So I had

1:32:27

to... I could have left the casino. I went back in and

1:32:29

lost it all. Rob, you still... You came out, still pretty

1:32:31

up. It's fine. it.

1:32:34

So I know it's still staying. There's only a couple months since it's

1:32:36

been over, but like, yeah, I think that the experience will

1:32:40

only be better the further out you get from it. For

1:32:45

sure. If I had the fans, one

1:32:47

thing I think that I would say is that I

1:32:49

think that the experience is a

1:32:51

little bit different. And not so much me

1:32:54

specifically, as a general point, I have a

1:32:56

problem with the gamebot archetype. It

1:33:00

doesn't really make sense to me, the

1:33:02

gamebot. What the gamebot really is are

1:33:04

young white men with glasses, right?

1:33:06

Not always. Not as glasses. Sometimes

1:33:09

without glasses, like Spencer. But

1:33:12

what I would say is

1:33:14

that the gamebot is a little

1:33:16

bit different. Sometimes

1:33:19

without glasses, like Spencer.

1:33:22

But was I really a gamebot?

1:33:24

I mean, I cried. I

1:33:27

talked trash. I had a temper tantrum. A huge

1:33:29

portion of my confessionals are not about strategy at

1:33:31

all. No, I'm not sure I really was a

1:33:33

gamebot. And then I look at season 46, and

1:33:37

there's somebody on 46 who is 100% strategy minded, who

1:33:41

has built very poor social

1:33:44

relationships that they don't put effort into

1:33:46

upkeep. And

1:33:48

who's all their content is about

1:33:50

strategy and frustration of people not

1:33:53

thinking strategically, but thinking emotionally. You

1:33:56

can put together who this is, but they are beloved. And

1:33:58

they're not seeing the gamebot at all. So I

1:34:01

just think that's very interesting that the game bot

1:34:03

doesn't really make sense. It doesn't really make sense.

1:34:06

So that's my one, only

1:34:08

correction for the record. Yeah. I don't

1:34:10

know. What could a future person who

1:34:13

comes in, because I think that you

1:34:15

are a very funny person, a very

1:34:17

fun personality. So what could

1:34:19

somebody do? They just have to be

1:34:22

even wackier to avoid that

1:34:24

perception? There's

1:34:27

no pleasing the fans. I mean, the fans are

1:34:29

like a mob. Well, can

1:34:31

I tell you, okay, so this is something, and I

1:34:33

think that this is relevant when we bring Q back

1:34:35

into this. That

1:34:37

the more you care about what the fans

1:34:39

think, the less they like

1:34:41

you. And

1:34:44

go poll, and Reddit

1:34:46

or something like this, and do a poll. Who

1:34:49

is the most popular person among the

1:34:51

fans that probably somewhere in the very

1:34:54

high is going to poll Courtney

1:34:56

Yates? Yeah, does not

1:34:58

care. Who would not

1:35:00

talk to one of these people if they were on fire?

1:35:04

And that is why she is

1:35:06

beloved. And

1:35:09

very funny, of course, for various reasons. But

1:35:11

the less, but I think,

1:35:14

you know, does not, you

1:35:16

know, really care so much

1:35:18

what you think about her

1:35:20

or them. And

1:35:22

Q, I think, is also a great example of that. I

1:35:27

love Q. Q is like a discovery,

1:35:30

a renaissance, you know, he's everything. So it's a

1:35:32

very good point, you know, and it's a good

1:35:34

point for future contestants, because I know you're out

1:35:36

here, your patrons, you're listening to our HAP. You

1:35:40

know, don't set an hour on

1:35:42

social media before you post, give it an hour

1:35:44

just to make sure it's the right thing to

1:35:46

post. Yeah, don't worry about the fans. I

1:35:48

think it's very hard for the young

1:35:50

people that come through Survivor now, because, you

1:35:52

know, we started this conversation, I was talking

1:35:54

about Survivor sucks. And I would go there

1:35:56

and look at it. But you know, you'd

1:35:58

have to you. That's not easy

1:36:00

to find that stuff. There were websites

1:36:03

you could go to and

1:36:05

like other than you know some of

1:36:07

these instances where people like in the

1:36:09

early days had like tabloids, writing about

1:36:11

them or whatever. But for the most

1:36:13

part that the survivor discourse was very

1:36:15

much contained in one place. And

1:36:18

now if you are a person

1:36:20

that's on you know survivor and

1:36:22

you know we all are just

1:36:25

like on the phones constantly,

1:36:27

the notifications find you. And

1:36:29

there is no way to you know disengage

1:36:31

or turn on other than like deleting

1:36:33

your accounts or anything like that. So

1:36:36

I think in some ways while the

1:36:38

show is not nearly as popular as

1:36:41

it was then, the like

1:36:45

the niche audience is

1:36:47

like so concentrated and

1:36:50

finds you even if

1:36:52

you do not seek it out. Yeah

1:36:55

totally totally agree. And

1:36:58

it's something that I think people should be aware of

1:37:00

before they go you know. I personally

1:37:02

I did not feel like

1:37:04

a huge mental toll like from

1:37:06

the fan environment. I mean it consumes a lot of time because you want

1:37:08

to stay. And you were also

1:37:10

very distracted with your school. I

1:37:13

was very out of the environment. Like I

1:37:15

didn't get recognized all seeing out here. But

1:37:20

I think a lot of people really

1:37:22

struggle mentally with the fan reaction, with

1:37:25

the omnipresence, with like getting recognized which

1:37:27

kind of reinforces your celebrity even though

1:37:29

you're I don't really think you are. And

1:37:33

it can be a mental toll. So you know

1:37:36

in a way being away from survivor

1:37:38

was or living in England was very

1:37:40

fortunate because like yeah I don't know any alumni. I

1:37:42

didn't get to go to the events. But like I

1:37:45

also got a lot of distance that made it like

1:37:47

very easy to like okay well that was a thing

1:37:50

that happened online and not in my real life you

1:37:52

know. Should survivor almost like

1:37:54

a fraternity like

1:37:57

the ones that would have parties that you

1:37:59

would maybe. Maybe get invited to. And

1:38:03

maybe they do do this,

1:38:05

but should they have some

1:38:07

sort of alumni, big brother,

1:38:09

big sister mentor that gets

1:38:11

attached, gets assigned to the

1:38:13

current players? You

1:38:15

know, I don't know. I

1:38:17

mean, they have been trying. They contacted a

1:38:19

lot of former players to give some suggestions

1:38:22

about how to process going home and things

1:38:24

like that, which was very helpful, and

1:38:26

to write them up in a little packet. But

1:38:28

I hate, I mean, you know,

1:38:31

I kind of, the dark side of the industry

1:38:33

is that like with the

1:38:35

returning players, it's self-interested. Can

1:38:38

you imagine that survivor 50,

1:38:40

you get voted out by your big.

1:38:43

Yeah. Oh my God. My mentor

1:38:46

votes me out. Listen,

1:38:49

if you are enjoying season 46, you

1:38:51

should be very excited for season 50 because

1:38:54

all these people are great friends who hang

1:38:56

out all the time. And

1:38:59

there are going to be betrayals that will

1:39:01

never be recovered. And you know, they'll probably

1:39:03

give you somebody that's like in your archetype.

1:39:05

So it's like, all right, Drew, here's your

1:39:07

mentor, Cochrane. Okay, great. And

1:39:09

then you go on survivor 50 and Cochrane

1:39:11

is like, okay, now I know this guy,

1:39:14

all this guy's insecurities

1:39:16

and tell, follow me everybody.

1:39:20

Life is tough and a lot of your biggest challenges, you

1:39:22

got to get through alone. It's

1:39:25

really not that big of a deal. Some people

1:39:27

never recover from survivor. You know, there are some

1:39:29

people who never, never got through it. But most

1:39:31

people do. Yeah. It's

1:39:34

the best and worst thing that's happened to so

1:39:36

many people that I know. Yeah.

1:39:39

I'm sure I, I

1:39:41

don't know anybody and I know, I know

1:39:43

people that's the case. So I'm sure, I'm

1:39:45

absolutely sure. Yeah. Anything else on your mind,

1:39:47

Drew, that you want to talk about survivor

1:39:49

or otherwise? Ah,

1:39:52

anything else on the survivor brain?

1:39:55

I don't know. It's a good season. It's been

1:39:57

a while since we had, had a, had a, had a. at

1:40:00

a merge this solid makes up for a bad beginning.

1:40:02

I like it. What about 45? 45

1:40:06

was good. But 45 I

1:40:08

felt like quality was very, very steady. You

1:40:10

know, like, like we didn't have like

1:40:13

highs and lows in terms of like, I would

1:40:15

say that I think that's a good point. I think

1:40:17

this season has had higher highs and lower lows than

1:40:19

45, which was very solid all

1:40:21

the way through. Yeah, totally.

1:40:23

And I think that with

1:40:26

so Cara

1:40:29

mowin, I think it's a survivor 46

1:40:31

was cryptocurrency. Yeah, it was

1:40:33

like Bitcoin, you know, we're

1:40:35

down, we're, we're rich, we're

1:40:37

poor. The thing

1:40:39

about a season like that is that

1:40:42

like, I remember like Cara mowin people

1:40:44

forget this Cara mowin's merge is great.

1:40:46

Yes, it's big move after big move.

1:40:49

Great personalities, lots of interpersonal drama. It's

1:40:51

a great period. And the season is

1:40:53

disliked because of a horrible pre

1:40:56

merge. So, you know, it's tough

1:40:58

to remember, like which side people are going to

1:41:00

remember and like, which, which, which half of the

1:41:03

season. But yeah, I

1:41:05

like it a lot. It could be better than

1:41:07

45. I think, I think they're pretty similar quality

1:41:09

wise. And I'm so grateful to

1:41:11

get to get the chance to talk to you about

1:41:13

it all. Yeah, I'm so happy that you were up

1:41:15

for doing this. Drew, do you watch anything else besides?

1:41:17

I know you that you're very much into your studies.

1:41:20

But do you have time for any other TV? Yeah,

1:41:23

no, I was watching the traitor last season, just

1:41:25

because it was such a it was such an

1:41:27

event. Yes. I didn't

1:41:29

care for it. Well, it wasn't

1:41:31

a fan. I mean, if they if they call me, I

1:41:33

loved it. Just

1:41:36

be clear. But but I don't know

1:41:38

if I've been watching anything else on a TV.

1:41:41

I'm really I'm the survivor is the only one

1:41:43

I think you got a recommendation, Rob. Yeah, I

1:41:45

watched a little bit of Amazing Race. Okay. What

1:41:48

about scripted shows? I know that you you

1:41:51

know, are, you know, more,

1:41:54

you know, books are your thing. But

1:41:56

are there any like scripted

1:41:58

television shows that you watch? Scripted

1:42:00

TV on that I like. I didn't

1:42:03

like Succession. I watched that really. Oh,

1:42:05

okay. No, I wasn't a fan of Succession. Why not?

1:42:08