0:17

Our next guest is no stranger to the automotive

0:19

world or the media. Cody Smith

0:21

of Kloy's Gear is a technical product director

0:23

and also does a great deal of the videos for social

0:26

media, and he's a presenter at various industry

0:28

events around the country. You know, I've been watching

0:30

Cody from AFAR for a while now, and I've been a

0:32

longtime user of Kloy's as well. It's

0:34

good stuff and he's a great talent for the industry

0:36

and we're happy to have him here with us. Cody Smith, Welcome

0:38

to the Car Doctor.

0:39

Sir, Hey, thank you on it's

0:41

great to be here.

0:42

You know timing chains, Uh,

0:45

engines have timing chains, right, they have to have a

0:47

they have to have some form of a timing component.

0:49

If you were going to, you know, give us a little timing chain

0:51

one oh one, explain it to the listeners. What is

0:53

a timing chain? What does it do? Well?

0:56

The time and chain is pretty simply the you

0:58

know, the component that's going to connect your crank shaft

1:01

up to your cam shafts and keeps keeps the engine

1:03

timing correct. You know, automotive

1:05

timing systems that have gone through many transitions

1:08

over the years. You know, commonly and antique

1:10

vehicles you're gonna you're gonna find, you know, gear

1:13

to gear type timing sets. You

1:15

know, that transitioned into the common

1:17

three piece timing sets that everybody

1:19

kind of traditionally knows in your small

1:21

block chevrolets, you know, direct from the crank

1:24

up to the cam and a push rob D eight and

1:27

then you know, uh, you know, the

1:29

modern era seeing the timing

1:32

belt be introduced. You

1:35

know, and that kind of occurred

1:37

due to you know the proliferation

1:40

of overhead cam engines where

1:42

you had a much longer distance between the

1:44

crank to the cam shafts.

1:47

Why not, Tody, Cody, Why didn't

1:49

they stay with timing belt? You know, they went, they

1:51

went from chain, they went to belt, and

1:53

then now they're back to chain again, and

1:55

they're back to belt again. You know, why does it vary

1:57

so much? Is it? Is it the engine design that creates

2:00

difference in the need.

2:02

Yeah, the engine design and really the technology.

2:04

I mean, the biggest reason why we're seeing

2:06

timing chain systems in modern vehicles

2:09

was the introduction of variable valve timing. So variable

2:11

vout timing is typically oil pressure

2:13

operated, so you know, with

2:16

that being said, the vvts need to be inside

2:18

of the oil, you know, the crank face the oil

2:20

back. So you know, once the introduction

2:23

of that technology kind of took over, everything's

2:25

shifted back to a timing chain system underneath

2:27

the time and cover.

2:28

So back up a second now, you

2:30

know, forty years ago, we'll use

2:32

a small block Chevy. It was kind of like a bicycle

2:34

sprocket, right, you had a big gear, a little gear. You

2:37

know, it was like a bicycle chain. You had a chain that you

2:39

know, connected the two sprockets together. Basic

2:42

timing chain componentry. And

2:44

then within the last ten years now

2:46

we have engines that'll have you

2:48

know, four cams and one crank or

2:51

four cams one crank, an

2:53

idler attention or drive

2:55

the water pump. You know, all

2:57

of a sudden, that timing chain is is

2:59

the essential backbone

3:01

of the engine, right, and

3:04

it's it's added

3:06

more stress and more it does

3:08

more of a job. You

3:10

know, have has the amount of timing

3:13

chain. Obviously the responsibility of the

3:15

chain is gone up. Do you see

3:17

more timing chain failures as

3:19

a result of that added stress?

3:22

Oh for sure, for sure. You know, like

3:24

like you said, it can drive with the four four

3:27

cans, you know, and sometimes you have multiple

3:29

chains inside the engine to do that. You know,

3:31

a three chain system or even a four chain system

3:34

is definitely possible. So

3:36

yeah, just the demands on the modern

3:38

system with the BBT operation, like you

3:40

said, water driving a water pump, driving a balance

3:43

chaff, driving an oil pump. Just

3:45

the demands on time and chain systems

3:47

or are way more than

3:49

they used to be, for sure.

3:50

So if you know, in a shortened

3:52

sentence of if there's

3:54

something the consumer out there listening or

3:56

the shops out there that are listening to get

3:59

their customers to do, what sort of maintenance

4:01

can people do to help promote the life of a timing

4:03

chain Because it's not something you can reach in and

4:05

and grease or lubricate or you

4:08

know, it's not a it's not a service item during

4:10

the during the course of an oil change, for example.

4:12

But there are things that people can do to extend

4:14

the life of a timing chain.

4:16

Right Yeah. Oil

4:18

oil oil is going to be the number

4:20

one, the number two, and the number three things that they

4:23

can do to uh, to to keep a timing

4:25

chain system healthy. Uh. The oil

4:27

oil is critical both pressure and supply

4:30

the timing chains all need to be properly lubricated.

4:33

You have metal links, you know, combined with

4:35

metal pins you know, working together, so naturally,

4:37

over time there's going to be ware and

4:40

then you know, your your time and chain tensioners to

4:42

keep the chain tight and you know, keep keep

4:44

instability from occurring.

4:46

Uh.

4:46

They all require a massive amount of oil

4:48

to keep that chain you know, properly tensioned. And

4:51

then like like I mentioned, modern variable of out

4:53

timing systems also are are heavily

4:55

dependent on oil supply. Without

4:57

that oil supply, you can get instability

4:59

in that EVT system, which is going to cause

5:01

damage to the time and change system as well.

5:03

So let's talk about that for a minute. You know, let's

5:05

we're gonna pick on Ford here and listen, we could

5:07

pick on any of the engine manufacturers. They

5:09

all have their issues with vv T. Ford

5:12

has known issues with their variable valve timing

5:15

actuators. Now Kloise makes

5:17

replacements, right, and that's

5:19

that's a pretty big that's a pretty big task. It's not easy

5:21

to go against Ford engineering and say hey, we're making a

5:23

better mouse trap, right, you

5:26

know what sort of engineering. You know, It's not like

5:29

if it happened on Monday. By Tuesday, you don't

5:31

exactly you can't have the part ready to go out the door.

5:33

What sort of lead time does it take? You

5:35

know, Ford decides you you start to look at engines

5:37

as they fail and break down, you

5:39

know, is it is it three months to market?

5:41

Is it six months to market? And and what's

5:44

sort of some of the steps that you have to go through to verify

5:46

that what you're doing is actually competent,

5:48

if not better, And with cloys it's always better.

5:51

But you know what I'm saying, Yeah,

5:54

yeah, So kind of in the aftermarket,

5:56

we had the benefit of some hindsight, you

5:58

know, applications that were developed to have

6:00

been on the market for a while. We see the issues,

6:03

we see some of the solutions that maybe

6:05

the OE manufacturers come up with along the way

6:07

to help those you know, initial problems that the

6:10

new platform may have. Being

6:12

an internal engine component, we're

6:14

not coming to market with products as quick

6:16

as you know a break pad manufacturer

6:19

may may do. You know, a lot of

6:21

times, an internal engine component's going to be covered

6:23

by the power training warranty for for

6:25

much longer than you know, most most product

6:27

lines are. So we've got a little bit of benefit there.

6:29

We've we've got time to kind of study applications,

6:32

uh, study you know, uh uh

6:34

you know, uh fixes from the

6:36

oe manufacturer and come up with a good

6:39

solution when when necessary to correct

6:41

some of these issues.

6:42

So do the manufacturers come and talk

6:44

to you guys? Do they you know, recognize

6:46

you who for what you are and who you are and say,

6:48

hey, we've got this problem. How can we make it

6:50

better? Have you ever had that opportunity?

6:53

Well, well, Kloy's is an oe manufacturer.

6:55

We we've worked with Forward and GM and Nissan

6:58

and many others and the past, so there

7:00

is a relationship there. But

7:04

yeah, a lot of times we're looking at

7:06

what they've done on their own to find

7:08

solutions in the aftermarket.

7:09

So when you know, Fords vvt

7:12

actuators, it's a problem right on the trucks

7:14

and such are the engines that I have. It

7:16

is it the actuator itself or

7:19

is it more a case of people aren't

7:21

doing you know, the three reasons of or the

7:23

three levels of maintenance oil oil oil? Are

7:25

they Are they doing cheap oil changes and correct

7:28

oil changes? You know, too long of an

7:30

oil change interval, and it's just beating the actuators

7:32

up and they don't work.

7:35

Yeah, it can kind of be a combination of everything.

7:39

You know, maintenance is absolutely critical.

7:41

You know on the Ford phasers that have the real

7:43

bad you know reputation on

7:46

the forward like five point four liters three valve

7:48

engines, those

7:50

those suffered a lot from camshaft

7:53

journal where and the VVT actuators

7:55

are fed from the salinoid through the

7:57

camshaft journal into the camshaft and to

8:00

get the oil supply to the phasers up front,

8:02

and a lot of those we're suffering some camshaft

8:05

journal where which is not allowing the oil

8:07

supply to it properly reached the DBT. And

8:10

then we did some things in the aftermarket on the closure

8:12

replacements to help in situations

8:14

like that for sure.

8:16

So in this day and age

8:18

of tight supply chains, right,

8:20

it's a it's a it's a tight supply

8:22

line out there. You know. Today in the shop,

8:24

we couldn't get oil filters.

8:26

You ever hear of a car called Honda. We

8:29

were out of Honda oil, you know, we couldn't get we could

8:31

and we buy them by the case. The

8:33

supply house was out of Honda oil. Filters for today,

8:35

today and tomorrow, probably won't see a shipment until

8:37

Friday, and you

8:40

know at what point and how,

8:43

you know, does that affect toys? You know, you've got to get to the

8:45

stage where you're going to you

8:48

know, you can't get certain componentry and you're

8:50

always sourcing, sourcing, sourcing. Have

8:53

you changed how you you know, create

8:55

these kits that you.

8:56

Make, Well, there's

8:58

definitely been changes. Know, I will say,

9:00

Klois was you know, uh leading

9:03

the industry when it comes to fill rates during during

9:05

the COVID you know time period. They did a

9:07

wonderful job preparing for it, having

9:10

multiple sources for for components, to

9:12

be prepared for situations like that

9:14

and just you know, working on our feet to to

9:17

get you know approved, you know, pushed

9:19

products through the approval process, you

9:22

know, to ensure that we had parts to supply

9:24

our customers.

9:25

Right, Yeah, because it's it's critical you guys

9:27

are you guys are so big. You

9:29

know, you're like the unsung supplier

9:31

behind the scenes that nobody sees. And

9:35

you know it's when Kloise runs out of something,

9:37

it's a problem because a lot of

9:39

the industry comes to a halt, especially engine assembling

9:41

without engines, we can't put vehicles together and without

9:44

vehicles, but we don't have an economy, you

9:47

know, new war views, right.

9:50

Yeah, yeah, we we we run into many

9:52

issues where the oe manufacturers were

9:54

back ordering, chained. They were six months behind,

9:56

you know, six months turned into a year real quick.

9:58

And we were keeping vehicles

10:01

on the road just just on our own, just

10:03

just because we had parts and nobody else did.

10:05

Yeah, I bet you. Hey, Cody, let's pull

10:07

over, take a pause, let me let me, let me

10:09

ask you to sit tight for a minute. I'm Ron Anie in the

10:11

Car Doctor. I'm here talking with Cody Smith

10:13

of Kloy's Gear and Product. We're gonna

10:15

both take a pause and be right back after this. Don't

10:17

go away,

10:51

and we're back. Welcome back, ronnin Aenie and the Car Doctor.

10:53

We're here talking with Cody Smith of Toys Gear

10:56

and Product. Cody, welcome back, sir, thanks

10:58

for sticking around. Can

11:01

we talk a little bit about replacement interval?

11:03

You know, is there a replacement interval for for

11:05

timing change and components? Mean, what parts fail

11:07

first? Is there something the listeners

11:09

should be aware of?

11:12

Yeah, I mean there kind of is, and there kind

11:14

of is, and I mean chain systems will fatigue

11:16

before the expected lifespan of an engine, but

11:19

don't expect a vehicle manufacturer to

11:21

provide you a replacement interval

11:23

for you know, time and chain systems like they would on

11:25

a on a belt system. Time

11:28

and chain systems really aren't considered by manufacturers

11:30

as an internal engine component or

11:33

they are, you know, considered an internal

11:35

engine component, so you know, the interval is

11:38

just not provided like like they would on a

11:40

belt. The expected lifespan,

11:42

you know, kind of greatly depends on the

11:44

oil system health for sure, but

11:46

also the engine design and you

11:49

know, demands placed on the engine.

11:51

Is is it acceptable?

11:54

You know, I mean, can we get an engine to two hundred

11:56

thousand miles and maybe it doesn't need anything, but it's

11:58

had, it's had the three levels of maintenance

12:00

oil, oil, oil, and

12:02

then and then and then you know the other engine, you

12:04

know, the other the identical vehicle at

12:07

one hundred thousand miles. You know, yeah,

12:09

we went to ten thousand miles on one oil change

12:11

and we went to twelve on the other, and then we did one at

12:13

six and then we did one at eight and

12:16

yeah, it wasn't you know, maybe we didn't use

12:18

the best oil we could find. We kind of didn't

12:20

worry about manufacturerspect is that the

12:22

one that is more likely at the one hundred thousand

12:25

mile mark that need that timing chain or have a stretch

12:27

chain or guide failure and all the other possible

12:29

ways that chains go bad.

12:31

Yeah, yeah, for sure, But there's

12:33

definitely other factors there. You know, manufacturers

12:36

are constantly trying to reduce like noise, vibration

12:39

and harshness and reduce you know, rotating

12:41

mass. No, no, two timing systems

12:44

are the same, So you're naturally going to find systems

12:46

that don't hold up as well as others do. So

12:50

those MVH initiatives,

12:52

they have a huge impact on the design of

12:54

a timing change system. So some chain systems are

12:56

just designed to withstand

12:58

a little more abuse than theres are, you

13:01

know. And then you said, of course oil change

13:03

inter rules and maintenance is huge.

13:05

Does does coolant you know, correct

13:08

coolant coolant service a

13:11

properly operating cooling system.

13:13

You know, an engine that's running a little hotter

13:15

than it's supposed to, is that going to have an effect

13:18

on timing chain componentry somehow.

13:19

Some way, I

13:22

mean it definitely could you know, I

13:24

would consider kind of the impact on the oiling system

13:26

when when you're speaking to you know, engine operating

13:28

temperatures and things like that, right, you

13:31

know, so of course, a good healthy operating

13:34

oil system it proper. You know, oil temperatures

13:37

is going to lubricate better than you know and.

13:39

Otherwise, so everything everything comes back to maintenance,

13:41

right, just just just keep doing what they're doing.

13:43

Oil change is coolant service probably

13:46

even fuel system cleaning, keeping the engine running

13:48

balanced and clean. A good PCV

13:50

system everything comes back to affecting

13:52

oil life and uh and its

13:54

ability to lubricate and do what it's supposed to do.

13:57

And yeah, yeah, yeah, and you nailed it

13:59

on the PCBs them, you know, engines that have issues

14:01

with PCV or definitely you know

14:03

that you're going to see hand in hand TCV issues

14:06

with with time and chain issues.

14:07

Sure, so Cody in our last in our last

14:09

minute and a half kloise. They

14:11

make some common kits. Now, right, what are

14:14

some of the common engines? I mean, you guys cover everybody,

14:16

but what are some of the big sellers right now that

14:18

Cloys has come to market with.

14:21

Oh, you know, we've got a full Oe replacement

14:23

line. We cover over ninety percent of all

14:25

you know vehicles in the North American market. You

14:28

know, of course, most commonly are our heavy

14:30

hitters are going to be like the GM High Future re six

14:32

that you know had timing system

14:35

issues from the start. The Ford

14:37

three five Ford three point five

14:39

Eco boost applications and even

14:41

the front will drive three fives are are big

14:43

because of the driving of the water pump,

14:45

and water pumps typically

14:48

have a little sooner replacement

14:50

interval than the timing system, so a lot of times the system

14:52

getting replaced as a preventative measure. And

14:55

of course GM Eco tech is huge. And

14:57

then we still see a ton of the Ford model

15:00

deular applications, even though it seems like they

15:02

hadn't built that engine now in fifteen years, but we're

15:04

still still a bunch of those things.

15:06

Yeah, And I guess I guess that's because there's just so many of those

15:08

vehicles still out there on the road. And

15:10

you know, you can you compare the price

15:13

of a new pickup truck sixty

15:15

seventy eighty thousand dollars to the place of a you

15:17

know, a timing chain overhaul a couple of

15:19

grand It sure makes sense, right.

15:22

Yep, especially with the price of views

15:24

vehicles and new vehicles now right yep.

15:26

Hey Cody, where can the listeners go get more information

15:28

if they want to, you know, read more about Kloys And may

15:30

you possibly see you on your YouTube channel?

15:33

You big star you.

15:35

Yeah, yeah, Just visit our website

15:37

at kloys dot com our YouTube channel.

15:40

Just just search Kloys on YouTube and that should

15:42

pull right up. And if you really want to keep

15:44

up to date with new you know, videos

15:46

and product offerings, you can join our

15:48

shop master's community on our website at

15:50

kloys dot com. We'll send you a news

15:53

newsletter about once a month. We're not going to fill your

15:55

inbox full of clutter, but but that'd

15:57

be the best way to really keep up with what we've gotten.

15:59

New cool being Cody, It's been an absolute pleasure,

16:01

sir. We'll get you back again real soon. You have a

16:03

great rest of the weekend.

16:05

You too, Thanks, Ron, You're very welcome.

16:06

I'm running any and the Car Doctor. We're back right after this.

16:08

Don't go away.