0:03

Welcome everyone to the R.P. Strength podcast.

0:05

I am Nick Shaw and joined by

0:07

Dr. Mike. What's up, man?

0:11

Not much, man. Um, you

0:14

know, one, one step at a time, like

0:16

my pro-losser keeps telling me. One

0:20

step at a time, one podcast episode at a

0:22

time. Yeah. And, uh,

0:24

Mike, this is, since you

0:26

started drawing the podcast last spring, man, it's actually coming

0:28

up on close to a year. Uh,

0:30

this is, uh, it's our first

0:32

threesome. Hey,

0:36

we are joined by long time R.P. Coach.

0:39

He's been on the podcast a couple of

0:41

times. R.P. Endurance expert, R.P.

0:44

Phenomenal coach, Dr. Alex

0:46

Harrison. What's up, Alex? Not much.

0:48

Um, it's weird to hear both of your voices, but at

0:50

the same time, I gotta say, and I haven't, I haven't

0:52

talked to both of you, uh, in the same space and

0:54

forever. So it's good to, good to hear both voices. It

0:58

was in the, um, cybernetic enhancement

1:00

facility slash mental hospital for ultra

1:02

superhero slash villains that we last

1:04

spoke to you. Yes.

1:07

Yeah. I think we called that ETSU at the

1:09

time. Ooh, I didn't

1:11

say it. You said it. Damn.

1:16

This started off combative. Nick,

1:18

I think it's your presence. Alex

1:20

is typically such a nice guy and it's

1:23

Mr. Nick Shaw just brings out this hate

1:25

in people. Uh, Alex, that they're

1:27

just to stop to describe in words. Yep.

1:30

I tend to do that with people. People that

1:32

see my face and they're like, Oh, I just feel really angry.

1:36

Great. That's a great thing. Uh,

1:41

Alex, you've been on before a couple

1:43

of times, mostly chatting about endurance. That's

1:45

your specialty. That's your forte. You

1:47

actually, I don't recall if last time you were on,

1:50

you actually had your app up and running, but you

1:52

have your own app. Can you dive into a little

1:54

bit, explain a little bit of that? Yeah,

1:56

it's called Saturday. Our company is Saturday

1:58

incorporated with the. Saturday for short

2:01

and it prescribes fluid,

2:03

carbs and sodium for endurance athletes. It

2:05

tells them how much to fuel with

2:07

and to optimize their performance for all

2:10

their long endurance events. Nick,

2:12

he's got all kinds of questions. Nick, do you want to ask

2:14

any questions or should I start? No,

2:17

no, fire away, man. Is

2:19

it that the other days of the

2:22

week were already incorporated as apps? Explain

2:25

the Saturday situation. If

2:28

you have to ask, then the app isn't for you.

2:31

I figure as much. Saturday

2:34

is when endurance athletes tend to go long. Never

2:37

could go long. So,

2:41

Saturday is often

2:43

times when endurance athletes, at

2:45

least those that also

2:47

have regular job jobs, can spare

2:50

the time to

2:52

put their longest efforts. And

2:55

just for folks not familiar with

2:57

endurance athletics, myself included, Mr. Nick

3:00

Shaw is a little

3:02

bit familiar because, Nick, didn't you

3:04

run cross country in high

3:06

school? I was a decent cross country runner.

3:09

I was a little bit better in track, but the

3:11

longest I ever ran was a half

3:14

marathon. Oh, when? In high

3:16

school. How'd you do? It

3:18

actually wasn't a competitive race. I just ran 13 miles

3:20

for fun. On the fun. I

3:23

want to say a Saturday. I could be wrong, but it was

3:25

definitely on the weekend. To

3:28

me, the name makes perfect sense because I remember

3:30

back in the day coaching people, and

3:33

not that I coached many endurance people, but

3:35

in the sport of CrossFit, if you're getting

3:38

in your wad Monday through Friday, something like that, usually on

3:40

Saturday, you go in, you'll be in there for an hour

3:42

and a half, two hours to do a little strength work,

3:44

stay a little extra. So, to me, it made

3:47

a lot of sense. Yeah.

3:49

So Alex, for those not familiar with endurance athletics, tell

3:52

us about what long really means. And

3:54

I'm absolutely resisting as hard as I

3:56

can, not making 18 puns

3:59

out of that. But maybe

4:01

through the talk us through three levels

4:05

of dilettante endurance sport, pretty

4:07

serious kind of intermediate and

4:10

then decently genetically gifted advanced

4:12

person for at least cycling

4:14

and running. What is considered a Saturday

4:17

type of effort? Yeah,

4:19

totally. For

4:22

mortals like myself, anybody

4:24

who's not an endurance athlete, they would

4:26

never claim that. The

4:28

long might be 45 minutes and you can fuel

4:31

45 minutes with carbs and sodium

4:33

and go faster because for

4:36

enthusiasts or becoming enthusiasts, maybe folks transferring in

4:38

from CrossFit and they've been doing some endurance

4:40

with CrossFit, they can run a half marathon.

4:44

It might be an hour, hour and

4:46

a half is long and worth feeling. For

4:49

the competitive athletes who go to half marathons and

4:51

intend to get on the podium, they

4:55

might go two, three hours on a

4:57

long run and then there's the crazy folks

4:59

that like talk about how long they can

5:02

run in 24 hours. Sorry,

5:04

I gave you four levels there. No, that's

5:06

great. Oh, that's ultra, right? That's ultra, yeah.

5:08

And there's even crazier bleeding edge folks that

5:11

like, yeah. But they will leave

5:13

a crazy hour. Can your

5:16

app work for those people that are doing 50, 100

5:18

miles? Yeah,

5:25

totally. It's designed for that. Whoa,

5:28

is there a top end for it

5:30

or is it just whatever distance you

5:32

type in it converts to fluid as

5:34

a code? 10 gallons? Yeah, good question.

5:36

36 hours straight. Oh my God. Now,

5:38

it works great for like

5:40

one hour. That's

5:42

most of our users average duration is like 70 minutes.

5:45

Okay, the next question I want to ask

5:47

you is exactly what it is happening in

5:50

the body that essentially

5:54

once you go longer than 20, 30 minutes, what

5:57

is happening that is getting depleted and also

6:00

So what is it that your app tells people to replete with?

6:02

Why and how does that work and what kind of results

6:04

I can expect on the margins?

6:07

But I don't mean to make this

6:09

racial. Yes, Nick's heart rate just

6:11

went up. Don't worry. That's all

6:13

right. I can easily debate. Hey,

6:16

Scott, assessment marks, nine minute mark. Just cut that out.

6:18

We don't have to tell Mike. Cut Mike out of

6:21

the company.

6:23

36 hours of running on end

6:26

as some of the most white

6:28

people ass shit. I have ever heard

6:30

in my life. That's

6:33

just like going by yourself into the wilderness to

6:35

explore. And then coming back three days later and

6:37

be like, I've learned a lot about myself. Like

6:39

what the hell is wrong with you, Frank? God

6:43

damn. Okay. So

6:45

we don't have race data in our app. It's not

6:47

one of the things that we ask questions and ask

6:50

our questionnaires again. It would

6:52

be, if it was anything after 24 hours, it

6:54

wouldn't be race data. It was exactly how white are

6:56

you? And they're like, well, how was born and raised

6:58

in Minnesota? And you're like, Oh my God, that white,

7:00

holy shit. You just dropped a little

7:02

Canadian action in there when you said the same

7:04

thing. Minnesota is technically a part of Canada. I

7:07

think if Canada came in with the military and

7:09

was like, Minnesota is ours, most of them are.

7:12

It would be like, yeah, yeah. So it is. Take

7:14

my time. And also the Dakotas are great. Of

7:16

Minneapolis. Yeah. Because like, you know,

7:18

Minneapolis. You have pro sports teams up there beyond that. Okay. You

7:20

can make the argument that it's basically Canada. Take

7:23

at least St. Paul, you know. You're

7:26

essentially North Dakota at that point. Oh,

7:28

you can for sure take North Dakota. I mean, no

7:30

one would notice. Mass comics guys, if you're listening to

7:32

this, no offense. Alex,

7:37

I am getting into running. Not

7:39

me literally. I'm just hypothetical colising here. Oh

7:41

my God. That would be a disaster. Thanks,

7:45

Nick. Thanks for your vote of confidence.

7:47

Anyway, I'm getting into running and

7:51

I've heard that in lifting, outside

7:54

of like one hour plus long

7:56

workouts, the benefit of having

7:58

some kind of concocted shake with carbs and

8:00

some salt and some protein or something is

8:03

like wildly overrated, maybe nothing. And

8:06

then after an hour to two hours, it's like marginal. And

8:09

if I eat food after, I'll be totally fine anyway. So

8:13

is that the same thing for endurance athletics

8:15

or what is it that's different? What's happening

8:18

after the you tell me what

8:20

minute mark does it become relevant

8:22

to do more than, well, first

8:25

actually to rehydrate at all.

8:27

And secondly, to not just rehydrate,

8:29

but to supply other things

8:32

other than water. Tell me about

8:34

that. How does that work? Yeah. In

8:36

endurance sports, there's no rest intervals.

8:41

That's the biggest difference maker for carb needs.

8:43

Your blood sugar tanks when

8:45

you don't have rest intervals. After

8:47

how long? At a jog pace.

8:50

For you, 12 minutes. That's

8:54

11 and a half more minutes than I can jog.

8:56

So I'm okay. I'm at it. Yeah.

9:00

Then maybe it's 30 seconds. It could be. Yeah.

9:02

Blood sugar goes down because your

9:07

liver and other mechanisms of

9:09

producing sugar can't keep up with the rate of burn

9:12

from your muscles. But when you're

9:14

still pumping it, but it's not enough. You could

9:17

just sit and rest and blood sugar will recover

9:19

between you. Yes. So

9:21

the liver is still recovering you, but

9:23

the draw is just so high that

9:26

your blood sugar starts to go. And

9:28

how does this feel perceptively to a human

9:31

being while they're running? It

9:33

feels hangry, shaky. Oh,

9:36

like hypoglycemic. Yeah, totally. Yep.

9:40

Whoa. And if you're running

9:42

slow enough for ketones to be able to take that

9:44

strain, then you're just running too slow to be relevant

9:46

and competition. I assume. Oh, yeah, totally.

9:49

Yep. Okay. Even

9:51

at the extremes, like when you're doing

9:53

alternate stuff, sometimes people say,

9:56

hey, you can fat fuel. And

10:00

that's the thing that's the thing

10:02

that's not optimal. It's not as good as carb

10:04

fuel. God damn

10:06

it. I knew it. There's always that

10:08

one dude who's like decent enough to

10:10

make the news that he ran like,

10:13

you know, 16 hours straight. And he's

10:15

like, I'm a ketones guy. And I

10:17

do low carbon carnivore. And what

10:19

I was used to say is this, my no means

10:21

clear to me that that guy is the best in

10:23

the world. And that typically carbohydrates are still the preferred

10:25

fuel. But like, from your insider knowledge and experience, like

10:28

that's definitely like a clown show thing to say like,

10:31

why would you do that to yourself? If I

10:33

guess if you're doing it just for the love

10:35

of the game and for spirit points, fuck it,

10:37

just do local carbon run for forever. But if

10:39

you're interested in running that long, I assume you're

10:42

trying to go like optimize some shit. And then

10:44

why wouldn't you eat carbs? There's

10:46

a good point there. If you are doing an

10:48

ultra endurance, you might be into it for the

10:50

masochism. So I mean, you have to be at

10:53

least for the masochism. Yeah,

10:55

you can enhance your masochistic effects

10:57

if you under fuel your calories.

11:03

Okay. That's

11:05

nuts. I'm running for

11:08

I'm going on a 30 minute pretty tough job. And

11:12

I want to put something here

11:14

on to my house. Hey, Nick,

11:16

that's not funny. The

11:18

reality is I would never make it 30 minutes.

11:21

So there's no reason to record the miles at

11:23

all. I so badly wanted to make

11:25

a bunch of jokes from now said for you, like

11:27

12 minutes. I was like, for Mike, that's like a

11:29

week's worth of cardio right there. You

11:31

must be out of your mind where that on what

11:34

is so scary that I willing to run

11:36

12 minutes away from it. Childhood

11:40

demons. Yeah, I'm gonna

11:42

get into some endurance sport. I

11:45

want to drink something. No, I'll actually keep it

11:47

open ended. What am I supposed to be putting

11:49

into my body? When

11:51

my body starts running out of carbohydrate,

11:54

for example, and at

11:56

what level does that intersect with dehydration? When does

11:58

that become approximately a problem? And

12:00

what else am I putting in this shake that I'm

12:02

supposed to be drinking that's going to give me an

12:04

advantage? What's that whole landscape look

12:06

like? Yeah, very

12:09

granularly. Glucose, fructose, sodium,

12:11

and water. Those four ingredients.

12:14

Glucose and fructose stuck together

12:16

makes sucrose. That's

12:19

table sugar. And that's what you

12:21

need during endurance sports. You

12:24

will need sodium later than you need

12:26

carbs. So you need carbs sooner. You'll

12:29

get hypoglycemic much faster than you get

12:31

dehydrated. You might get

12:33

hypoglycemic at 20 minutes, but you'll get dehydrated

12:35

at like 50, 60 minutes. Somebody

12:38

with a little bit more endurance training under their

12:40

belt might get hypoglycemic at 40 or 60 minutes

12:43

and then dehydrated at 90. And

12:46

the purpose of the shake is roughly preserved. To

12:51

retain water, okay. Because

12:53

if you take in fluids and

12:55

carbohydrates without sodium, you fractionally

12:58

pee out much more of that than you're

13:00

supposed to and then your body's like, bro,

13:02

what the hell is going on? It's like

13:04

giving someone groceries with no shopping bags. I

13:06

can only hold so much of this. Okay,

13:08

okay. Very interesting. You can go exactly as

13:10

you go. You

13:13

wash out sodium as you drink water and so you get

13:15

worse and worse at holding the water you're drinking if you're

13:17

just drinking water. I got an option.

13:19

So I mean, you talked about carbs and

13:21

salt. So why

13:24

wouldn't you ever drink protein? Drinking

13:27

milk in the middle of a marathon and how that

13:29

might make you feel. Amazing. Milk

13:32

fueled the growth and building of the United States. Dare

13:34

I say the world? How dare you? Are

13:36

you anti-American? What the hell is going on here? I do.

13:39

I do love milk. However, what if it's

13:41

fair life? Fair life skim. Boom. But

13:44

probably don't drink it during exercise. Yeah.

13:47

Protein tends to not sit well in the gut during,

13:51

well, I should say during endurance

13:53

exercise, during lifting. Fantastic.

13:55

Yeah. What if I am

13:57

also... lactose

14:00

intolerant and I use

14:02

the gaseous Expulsion

14:06

to propel myself forward more there

14:08

might be rules against that Also,

14:11

you'd have to run either nude or with

14:13

a circle cut out around your mouth Yeah,

14:17

that wouldn't fare super well, so

14:20

okay we gotta get in you're starting to

14:22

speak the language though for real That's that's

14:24

the language of ultra That's why people want

14:26

to have because once you've done a marathon

14:28

and you've tried to consume your fuel and you get

14:31

diarrhea at mile 16 You'll

14:33

come find us What

14:38

okay, so what do people get wrong when they get

14:40

the diarrhea and how can your app help them they

14:43

don't drink water soon enough and

14:46

and or enough sodium to retain the water and with

14:49

guts your guts gets less

14:51

blood flow during exercise So when

14:53

you further dehydrate it and then

14:55

decide I'm hypoglycemic at mile 16

14:59

You don't have a bunch of carbs to a functioning to

15:01

a gut that's not functioning anymore And

15:03

all of a sudden you're guys like no and it

15:05

just goes down the tube Yeah,

15:08

damn there seems to be a lot

15:11

you can get at least

15:13

suboptimal and Quite a bit

15:15

you could get quite wrong especially if there's like

15:18

you get a shit about your performance and So

15:21

something like the guidance of your app I

15:24

assume your app you sort of describe the workout

15:26

you've kind of Selectorized pick how long you're going

15:28

and the pace etc and your body size and

15:30

things like that and it says

15:32

here's the mixture Here's the concentration fluids

15:35

salt carbs, etc. That's kind of what

15:37

it does, huh? Bingo and it

15:39

syncs with training peaks to oh dope. Okay, so

15:41

you can make it all very well tracked and

15:43

scientific That's really cool. And so if someone uses

15:45

your app, then they can kind of have at

15:48

least Obviously the physiological relevance

15:50

is going to improve the performance But

15:52

at least the psychological seems even

15:54

also cool because it's like, okay, I

15:57

have this drink That's kind of a magic drink and

15:59

it's all science and it's going to help

16:01

me. And I don't have to like guess like,

16:03

is this coming out the same way that

16:06

it went in except five minutes

16:08

into my hardest part of a marathon

16:10

or whatever. So the psychology

16:12

is also kind of awesome because they're

16:14

like, man, like I know what's going

16:16

on. Totally. Yep. That is a

16:18

really commonly reported effect that people feel way

16:20

more confident about performance on race day

16:22

because we know they can just rely on the fuel. Race

16:26

day. So a lot of the folks that

16:28

use the app are people who compete. Is

16:30

that correct? Or what's the ratio roughly between

16:32

recreational people and competitive people there? Yeah,

16:35

I say race day because the marathon is

16:37

a race. Most people who go around the

16:39

marathon are just going to go do the

16:41

marathon. Nazis are around. Yeah, we have

16:43

folks that want to go sub three or most people who

16:45

are compete. I mean, we have an

16:48

Olympic trials guy using it for trials. But

16:51

most folks, they're going to the

16:53

race to do the race, like, and they

16:55

just want to not get GI issues or

16:57

anything like that. Sure. You

17:00

said that the salt needs to be introduced later.

17:05

Not quite. I must have misspoke. I

17:07

should say it's, oh, you mean later

17:09

than carbs. Yes. It becomes

17:11

mission critical later than carbs. I see.

17:13

So you can ingest the whole mixture

17:16

at a sort of titrated rate and

17:19

then it takes care of everything. The

17:21

problem will arise kind of a

17:23

little bit later. Okay, cool. And

17:26

then does your

17:29

app specify like, pretend

17:31

I'm really, really, really

17:33

stupid. Nick

17:36

works with me enough to see he's laughing

17:38

already because he knows there's no pretending required.

17:41

And Nick just remembers his whole life knowing

17:43

me and going, yeah, easy. Does

17:47

your app specify at what rate of ingestion I

17:49

have to do it? Because my dumb ass would

17:51

be like, this tastes great. Slammo and then diarrhea

17:53

and then the whole nine yards. Yeah,

17:56

for now, we do just to just consume it.

18:00

evenly over the course of your event. And

18:02

we leave it up to the folks to figure out what evenly is. But

18:05

eventually it's gonna sync with watches and you'll just

18:07

get told. So just a drink and a drink

18:10

and a bowl. That actually was a

18:12

question that I kind of had because. We

18:14

wanted to be brainless. Right, it's great

18:16

to give people that information. But

18:18

then, because I kind of know people that

18:21

do endurance type events and they tend to

18:23

be like to overthink stuff and

18:25

all that. So I could see them trying

18:27

to like optimize every single thing. Oh, well I drink like

18:29

two ounces an hour, like four. You know, like I could

18:32

see them being overly complicated. Yeah,

18:34

we'll take care of that. Yeah, that makes sense. That's cool.

18:38

That's really cool. And

18:40

so most of the people, would you

18:42

say that drinking

18:45

to thirst is

18:47

a wise strategy in this case? Or not so

18:49

wise? Because I know that drinking to thirst is

18:52

generally good for kind of normal

18:54

hydration throughout the day. But then

18:56

in certain circumstances, it's not ideal.

18:58

For example, if you do some

19:00

kinds of really high heat combat

19:03

sport, like you get to for example, it's like 100 degrees in

19:05

the gym. If you wait until you're

19:07

thirsty to start drinking water, the

19:09

localized dehydration in your muscles is

19:11

like on a 30 minute lag.

19:14

And practice will be over by the time you're

19:16

rehydrated. So it's just too fucking late. So you just have

19:18

to sip it all the time. Do

19:21

most people know this in the endurance field? Does it apply in

19:23

this case? Or is it like, just drink to thirst? Or is

19:26

it really like, sip throughout means

19:28

that I kind of try to dope it out so

19:30

that it's roughly an even amount? Yeah, it means the

19:32

even amount for sure, not drink to thirst. And we tell

19:34

people that right up front. In

19:37

general, if you weren't using our app, drinking to

19:39

thirst or just beyond thirst is

19:41

a good idea, but not in the absence of sodium. Right,

19:46

right. So

19:48

drinking to thirst generally is a good idea

19:51

if you're doing endurance athletics and kind of

19:53

rehydrating. A bit ahead

19:55

of it, yeah, usually. A bit ahead, which means

19:57

that like, right when you start to

19:59

get a- a little thirsty, it's time to start putting

20:01

it down. Not kind of like, well, I'm not thirsty,

20:04

thirsty just a bit. Like when you get that

20:06

first inkling, that's time to go. Correct.

20:08

Yeah. Interesting. I think most people don't

20:10

know that. And, oh, okay,

20:12

here's a question for you. Maybe not

20:14

through the app, maybe through the app, but just you've

20:17

been involved in endurance athletics for a very long time.

20:19

Is it, are there

20:22

people who are in

20:24

endurance athletics, not in a serious capacity after

20:26

what I'm about to say, that kind of

20:28

have this like, water makes

20:30

you weak attitude? Oh, okay.

20:33

Tell me a story about how that works out. Yeah,

20:35

we call them the one bottle guy on

20:38

the bike. So yes, totally. That

20:40

culture still exists. It comes from

20:42

my, I don't know, 1960s university,

20:45

Florida pre-gator is, yeah, our

20:47

water makes you weak or car, I don't need

20:49

carbs for a three hour ride. And you're right,

20:51

you don't, you've been training for 40 years. You've

20:53

been riding your bike since like there were only

20:55

six years on a bike. You have a humongous

20:57

work capacity. You don't sweat a lot because you're

20:59

ultra fit. And you're

21:02

still not optimizing your fuel or

21:04

your hydration or your performance in any way. Is it a

21:06

mental toughness thing? That's basically what you're saying. Yeah,

21:09

it's all part of the masochism

21:11

mindset of endurance athletes. And

21:14

don't get me wrong, I love to

21:16

suffer like out on like long endurance

21:18

sessions. I, there's like a

21:20

deep sense of pleasure in like

21:23

knowing you're suffering well. The fuck?

21:25

But there's, I don't find any value

21:28

in suffering additionally by limiting fuel. I

21:30

have another take on that, Alex. I

21:32

think the stuff we're gonna have, we're gonna ask if

21:34

I need to work with psychologists. Oh

21:36

yeah, sure. Well, psychiatrists really, epistolary psychologists

21:39

don't say much. I

21:42

would say that if

21:44

you do a lot

21:46

of proper refueling, you just

21:49

are able to go faster and further.

21:51

And thus the total area

21:53

under the curve of your suffering is still

21:55

gonna be the same. If You

21:58

aren't suffering enough. Just

22:00

go faster, mother fucker and you'll start

22:02

suffering right away. And as a matter

22:04

of fact, carbohydrates and salt and water

22:07

to make you go faster. So the

22:09

people that are like they're both dead

22:11

already, the bottle of water, they just

22:13

haven't really thought it through at all,

22:15

even internally, because if they're lucky, I

22:17

just wanted to hurt like trust me,

22:20

idiot, it's gonna hurt just as much,

22:22

if not more if you fuel. Probably

22:24

because that fuel goes right. Your p

22:26

receptors via your must have pushing harder

22:28

and excluding more lactate. And so on. It's over

22:31

my wrong about that. He. A

22:33

generally generally correct do I was A

22:35

As an endurance athlete, you might find

22:37

that. There are shades and

22:39

colors of suffering. Ah so you

22:42

might get a different like spectrum. Most

22:44

of suffering by limiting your fuel kill

22:46

were like continue to be spent on

22:48

that. Would he mean by said the

22:50

serious or said he's masturbating Alice? don't

22:52

don't don't explain and he's a sneaky

22:54

to help. And underway and

22:56

how they do him during the service is

22:58

I guarantee you know this. The words I

23:00

had been have your want to hear more?

23:02

Oh and there's a dark place when you

23:04

are like you've gone as far as you

23:07

can go and your hypoglycemic very early on

23:09

each other and or of. Booze

23:11

and eight million I. Like

23:14

literally ceiling last year's you're like ex wife

23:16

likes was with or speak a miserly right

23:18

over Seth. I'm in wealth and will fuel

23:21

and but but even on like a normal

23:23

training ride you can yeah you can find

23:25

you can get you something really bad place

23:28

it was. It was easier. muslims

23:31

yes that makes sense so as

23:33

the general oh amount of suffering

23:35

can probably maximized by giving herself

23:37

enough fuel to potentially that suffering

23:40

but there's a texture quality to

23:42

a suffering that is are driven

23:44

by dehydration and i've only seen

23:47

as a set is a different

23:49

kind of suffering and perhaps like

23:51

an extra layer of a cake

23:53

on the way down to how

23:56

of paper said that it doesn't

23:58

seem to be suffering That just

24:00

seems like dangerous. Yeah. Nah.

24:03

Nah. What's going to happen? Alex,

24:05

realistically, let's say, okay, on the bike, it's a

24:07

fucking problem because you pass out on the bike

24:10

who the fuck knows what's going to happen. But

24:12

let's say like you pass out running and let's

24:14

say just pretend you didn't hit your head, just

24:16

kind of fold it over and fell. Like

24:18

as soon as you lie down, your liver is

24:20

going to re-norm your shit. The ketones are going

24:22

to get going. You'll wake up confused and pissed,

24:25

but good. I,

24:27

are you? That's probably

24:29

correct. Yeah. All

24:31

right. Sports science. I know a

24:33

few endurance athletes and some rowers I

24:35

knew used to wear a t-shirt that

24:38

said you pass out before you die.

24:40

That's true. That's true. And

24:43

yeah, your liver and all of the other chemo receptors

24:45

in your body will take care of you. Yeah.

24:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

24:52

Holy shit. Like every time we get into this training

24:54

debate and bodybuilding with what hard training means and how

24:56

hard do you train? Because people do the same ego

24:58

bullshit of like, fuck, go hard. I

25:01

always make a point, and this is never

25:03

so well received in groups of exclusively strength

25:05

power athletes. But you

25:07

motherfuckers train hard because endurance athletes

25:09

bury all of you. And

25:11

you just, the total magnitude of

25:14

pain is just insurmountable. Like, yeah,

25:16

okay, so endurance pain doesn't hurt as

25:18

much per second as the pain of

25:20

getting crushed by the heaviest lift in

25:22

your life. And it lasts

25:25

a little longer than 60 seconds per

25:27

second. It lasts for 60

25:29

minutes. Fuck that. Yeah.

25:31

Yeah. You might have to go

25:33

to like that terrible dark place that we go to in a squat

25:35

rack for 30 seconds maximum. Your

25:39

job as an endurance athlete is if you're going

25:41

to optimize maximizing performances to go to that place

25:44

for as long as you can tolerate it. And

25:47

you can train yourself emotionally, mentally to go

25:49

there and just like sit in it. And

25:51

basically you start getting on the, you

25:53

start being able to dissociate essentially.

25:56

And that's where a lot of the

25:58

best endurance athletes thrive and live. Yeah,

26:00

so by dissociate you mean pain

26:02

is happening, but it's no longer

26:05

attacking me pain is occurring But

26:07

me I'm an observer and pain

26:09

is going on and interesting. Yeah

26:12

Do you find that a lot of endurance

26:15

athletes practice mindfulness for that very reason? Yeah,

26:18

or or in addition to training or

26:20

does the training sort of become mindfulness

26:22

training? Yes. Yes to both absolutely mindfulness

26:24

is a super powerful performance and the

26:26

answer for endurance athletes because you basically

26:28

are just saying I'm okay

26:30

with this this hurts so bad. I'm okay

26:33

with it this second I think I can

26:35

be okay with it for one more second for an

26:37

hour straight. That's crazy That

26:39

our straight part really caught me offhand. Oh my

26:41

god. I wasn't ready for that. Yeah

26:46

Mike so alright Bodybuilding

26:49

is essentially suffering as well. So

26:51

let's play a game What's more

26:53

suffering bodybuilding or endurance training? I

26:55

think there I would kind of

26:58

tilt to Alex and cite his

27:00

kind of textural qualities of suffering

27:02

It's difficult to compare Because

27:05

there's not much higher pain outside

27:07

of getting tortured or something Like

27:10

going to failure on walking lunges for a

27:12

set of 35 like per unit time This

27:16

is great full acid bath. Fuck

27:19

that The

27:21

next level of suffering is like three

27:23

hours of like near-death experience and

27:26

endurance athletics that sucks There's

27:29

a special different kind of

27:31

suffering when you look at

27:33

people happily exiting McDonald's

27:35

let's say even a good-looking nuclear family

27:38

of people getting into their suburban minivan

27:40

and they're eating french fries and you

27:42

go I won't be able to eat french

27:44

fries for 14 more weeks. I I

27:48

Don't want to be here anymore. But here I

27:50

am one step ahead of the other and

27:53

there's a certain At least

27:55

with endurance sport. You Definitely

27:57

with powerlifting Weightlifting. When

28:00

interest thought for sure there's this thing of

28:02

my guests to the over. I can breathe

28:04

a can, I can drink again, I can

28:07

eat again with Bodybuilding of Sigma now

28:09

really mother fucker ever. And it's like you're

28:11

up until the show you that a deal

28:13

with that shit him as a special different

28:16

kind of sucks. The only sports I

28:18

think that are on that level even Harper,

28:20

the body building by a long shot or

28:22

gymnastics and wrestling and sports like that where

28:25

people have to make weight classes so

28:27

they die at all the fucking time. And

28:29

the action. After physically perform body biggest

28:31

fucking joke you do this and he's

28:33

that and people he hears a metal.

28:35

The Fox Lake is the opposing can

28:37

be tough but is it was imposing

28:39

and then like in front of your

28:41

all of your family and friends at

28:43

the Olympics going and fucking try to

28:46

do some kind of twirl shit gymnastics

28:48

were like a fall off the that's

28:50

embarrassing or kill yourself or and you

28:52

know you haven't fuck him had a

28:54

cookie and sixteen weeks with and or

28:56

for products Alice's powder. lot of people

28:58

trying to make weight and really. Controlling

29:00

their nutrition all the time or is

29:02

that like V Works capacities were throughput.

29:04

Sorry is so high the workload for

29:06

the week or so high that generally

29:09

load. It's more of a difficulty we

29:11

would. He weighed on their body, tells

29:13

a story about a little Works via

29:15

a pussy Ten two years ago. And

29:18

even they'll still. there was a lot

29:20

of restriction. A huge amount of intrusion

29:22

towards restriction in there still is and.

29:24

Yeah, endurance athletes will put that

29:27

on themselves and that endure unnecessary

29:29

suffering with the idea that it's

29:31

performance enhancing and but the truth

29:33

is it's not in most cases.

29:36

in most cases, lifelong hundred. Calories.

29:43

A little because I'm suffering. Don't actually need

29:45

to be researching the calories a day to

29:47

be feeling better. I'm feeling more

29:49

and just eating. More importantly, perform master

29:51

of the way to treat moms more

29:53

and with their fields. So

29:56

been a little generally. don't know. how

29:59

to say So basically the mistake

30:01

people are making is they say, okay, a

30:04

repeat power to weight ratio is

30:06

optimized the less I weigh, they stop looking at the

30:08

numerator, they just look at the dominator and they're like,

30:10

okay, the less I weigh the better it is, but

30:12

they lose so much repeat

30:15

power ability in the numerator that actually the whole

30:17

number goes down. And so they're better off. What

30:19

is it? What is a competitive, what is a

30:21

marathon runner weight? Like who's like good, good, like

30:23

Boston Marathon, you're not just an asshole starting in

30:25

the back and then passing out like me. Yeah,

30:28

honestly, I mean, there are, there are folks running

30:30

at Boston that are 200 pounds. They're still

30:32

running at Boston that are 105 pounds. I

30:36

think, I mean, there's actually a really wide

30:38

range and now especially so like 20 years

30:40

ago, people didn't fuel straight up. People didn't

30:43

fuel. And so the only people that could

30:45

succeed in marathons were super, super skinny. Like

30:48

because if you're not fueling and

30:50

you have lots of muscle tissue, you're not going to

30:52

succeed at a marathon. But if you are fueling, we're

30:55

seeing like basically a widening of the body,

30:58

body types that compete well because

31:01

fueling is becoming more like accepted.

31:03

Interesting. I have

31:05

two questions for you. One, I

31:07

need a definitive answer from you,

31:09

which is worse, which is harder,

31:11

harder, which is harder, bodybuilding or

31:14

endurance athletes, athletics in terms

31:16

of suffering? Yeah. So,

31:18

yeah, basic starvation that a bodybuilder

31:20

might have to go through. That's

31:23

tough. I think you probably, Mike, you can correct

31:25

me if I'm wrong, but I bet you kind

31:27

of get to the same sort of almost dissociative

31:29

stage where you're like, yeah, I'm in this and

31:31

like I'm emotionally elsewhere. And this is just my

31:33

job at this point. So

31:37

yeah, suffering for 12 weeks

31:39

straight, basically shivering or, and I don't

31:41

know if that's a thing for everybody, but yeah,

31:44

because your calorie expenditure goes

31:47

down. So much because you're

31:49

starving. Only Mike can speak to

31:51

that. I don't know if that happens for

31:53

endurance athletes. It's hard to, it's hard to

31:55

compete with the suffering that you can cause

31:57

yourself in like a third.

32:00

minutes or one hour event or even

32:02

honestly like a 15 minute event but

32:04

like if you're really talented

32:07

at suffering going hard for an hour is

32:10

yeah I mean by five

32:12

minutes in it hurts by ten minutes in

32:14

you're like you're

32:16

absolutely convinced that there's no way you're holding the space for an

32:18

hour and then you just have to go to the dark place

32:20

for an hour. My

32:23

yeah I know I know

32:25

I'm subjective it's super subjective it really

32:27

is like who's the person some people

32:29

can lock into a diet just execute

32:32

whereas you try to get them to

32:34

run a mile if you'd fuck that

32:36

it fucking hurts different

32:38

kind of stuff it's not pain you know if you

32:40

don't have pain from hunger or restriction low

32:43

energy all the time lack of

32:45

will to live considering ending it

32:47

off yeah like that on a

32:49

straight pain scale nothing fucks with

32:51

endurance although Nick you said you have two questions I

32:53

don't want to interrupt you I

32:55

wanted to comment first before I go back to

32:58

that one I'm probably already forgotten the second one

33:00

because I was so fascinated by the answer it's

33:02

almost like which do you want to suffer for

33:04

like three hours and in the magnitude is much

33:06

higher so it's it technically is over and you

33:08

can go eat some food and then you kind

33:11

of get to enjoy but like bodybuilding is a

33:13

different level of suffering where the magnitude is a

33:15

little bit lower but it's just more permanent right

33:17

and you just have it for so long and

33:19

you don't necessarily have that pain so you get

33:21

some hunger pains but the

33:24

other thing I was gonna say is I definitely

33:26

tried it two preps ago I was like I'm

33:28

gonna read a ton about mindfulness I'm gonna really

33:30

try just like lean into it right when I

33:32

get hungry just like roll with it

33:35

it works to an extent but you can get

33:37

to a place where like no amount of mindfulness

33:39

is gonna get you through some of that shit

33:42

evolution is a motherfucker you get to those last

33:44

couple weeks and they don't care how mindful you

33:46

can be it doesn't matter it just sucks there's

33:48

nothing you can do about it I

33:51

forgot my second question man so whatever we'll

33:53

move on Alex I've heard

33:55

that the 1500 meter race It's

34:00

the hardest thing anyone can ever

34:02

do comments concerns I don't expect you

34:05

to agree or disagree unless you want to but because

34:07

I don't I know nothing about any of this But

34:09

what do you think about that as a standalone statement?

34:12

And why do people say that? Yeah,

34:15

good question. It's at the it is at the

34:17

confluence the intersection of anaerobic

34:20

and aerobic Metabolism

34:22

basically where you're firing everything you've got as

34:24

hard as you can go as far as

34:26

you can go for Just

34:28

the right amount of time to maximize Acidification

34:33

probably among other things all

34:36

the things that cause pain during exercise

34:40

Every pain causing pathway. Yeah, I think

34:45

Probably if I had to put

34:48

a number and Michelle and I have like debated

34:50

this time I have what what what race distance

34:52

or duration would exact exactly induce

34:55

the greatest a peak Maximum

34:57

amount of pain and I think we settled on somewhere

34:59

around three minutes. So like a 1200 meter Damn

35:05

but in 1500 closest to it. Yeah 800s close. Oh, yeah, the 800

35:07

also fucking blows Nick

35:14

have you ever run the 800? He's gonna

35:16

be a 400 runner the 800 was my

35:18

specialty actually. No, you sick fuck. How did

35:21

I feel? So straight up I

35:23

didn't have any athletic talent. So like I couldn't

35:25

do field events Right because I'm not skilled in

35:27

any of that stuff. So I said, hey

35:29

guys What are like the worst events to run

35:32

like a 400 800 generally and I'm like, all right cool.

35:34

Well, I'll see you there You

35:37

did it on top of this. Um Yeah,

35:41

cuz I again I was in this like

35:43

weird state because I like to lift so

35:45

I was bigger than all the endurance athletes

35:47

But I wasn't fast enough to

35:49

be like a top top end sprinter So

35:52

I kind of had to settle in that middle distance. Yeah,

35:55

that makes sense. I am 12 1200

35:57

meters, which would be absolutely terrible Here's

36:00

my god three stupid

36:02

laps around that stupid track The

36:06

upsides to endurance all

36:08

we've done so far other than talk about the

36:10

value of the app, which seems fucking dope And

36:14

where can people get your head right away? Oh, yeah, that's right. I

36:16

want your app. How do I go about getting it? Saturday

36:19

morning dot-sit. It's like

36:21

the dot-sit is like the calm so

36:23

Saturday morning dot-sit Do

36:25

you get it through the apps first, too? Yeah,

36:28

you just look up Saturday fuel or Saturday endurance

36:30

and will be the first thing Oh

36:32

don't can you pay for it in the app stores or do

36:34

you only pay for it through Saturday morning that fit? app

36:37

stores Where we can accept

36:40

all payment right now? Oh Payment

36:42

what the fuck I thought you guys were doing this

36:44

little charitable contribution. How much does it cost? It's

36:47

six dollars a month or fifty bucks a year.

36:49

That's a lot of my hard-earned money. What the

36:51

fuck and we see in

36:59

Car The

37:16

We got to cut this out of the podcast because big

37:19

sports drink It's gonna

37:21

come after you for this you're gonna bonus. Oh

37:25

Yeah, that's how capitalism works they don't actually

37:27

go to the black sins and break your

37:29

legs anymore not from Russia sorry Procter

37:33

and gamble you know ever if you listening

37:35

see the beard hello Yeah,

37:39

don't associate with us. There's nobody especially with my

37:41

criminal history. No one's gonna sell you shit if

37:43

you're on this podcast so

37:46

all we've done so far other than talk about

37:48

your fucking awesome app and Physiology

37:51

of carbohydrates and so on and so forth

37:53

is talk about how painful endurance athletics is

37:56

so can you just give us a

37:58

few? compelling reasons why someone would try

38:00

endurance athletics or at least training because so far

38:03

it's like, Hey, like it kind of feels like

38:05

you're cutting your own dick off. Sign me up.

38:08

I think, I think everybody is endurance

38:10

curious. I

38:14

think, I think the reason that you

38:16

are not endurance curious is because you've

38:18

experienced endurance wrong in the past without

38:20

feeling. And I think we're the thing

38:22

that, uh, that is

38:24

actually the linchpin to more people

38:26

enjoying endurance sports. Damn. That's

38:28

a hell of a sales pitch. And if I

38:31

take your drinks and, uh, but your,

38:33

your, uh, how, how to make the

38:35

drinks and, uh, and if

38:37

I go along with all that and I try endurance athletics,

38:40

is there like, how much validity is there

38:43

behind the runner's high? Is that a thing

38:45

that people look, is it a thing they,

38:47

they verbalize like, this is kind of a big

38:49

reason why I do this. And also

38:52

like, does the high start clearly it does

38:54

not start in the first part of the fucking run

38:56

because that's just all pure agony in your body being

38:58

like, do you want to reconsider this? Um,

39:01

when does the high start? How long does it last? What

39:03

does it feel like? Can I just buy it and take

39:05

it as a drug? So I don't have to run around

39:07

all the questions. You can. I think

39:09

it might be schedule one though. So maybe

39:12

don't buy morphine. You

39:15

want runners high? Well, gee whiz, Mr. I don't

39:17

think I should be buying needles from behind the

39:19

GMC. Oh, come on kid. It'll feel great. That's

39:23

where steroids are sold. Um,

39:26

what was the question? When does it say I'm

39:29

running hard? I'm

39:31

running hard for 30 minutes. When does

39:33

the part where I start to feel not so

39:36

terrible about it? Let's say I'm not trying to

39:38

push the pace such that it's just pure fucking

39:40

agony the whole time. I'm going like a decent

39:42

run, decent pace. Yeah. Uh,

39:44

probably six weeks from now. Meaning,

39:47

meaning you're going to need a little bit of fitness.

39:50

You usually the first few weeks are they

39:52

suck. You just have to bury it. They

39:54

suck for everybody. And then like,

39:57

once you get to that point, you're like, you

39:59

start to. under like, you know,

40:02

just becoming a nervous athlete. Like, is this

40:04

happening? I actually might do like that run.

40:06

Like, did that happen? Yeah, that's, that's

40:08

what I'm saying. And

40:11

so now you

40:14

get a consistent runners high. Oh,

40:16

yeah, yeah, actually. Yeah, you can. Not

40:18

that that's a big driving factor. It's

40:20

just like this weird addiction. Once you've

40:22

done it, it's like, you've tried it

40:24

and it sucked. And you feel somewhat

40:27

gratified and like, proud of yourself for

40:29

having gone through a hard thing and doesn't running.

40:32

And then then it just feels like

40:34

one Wednesday, you need to run

40:36

some more and you're not sure why. For us, you

40:38

talked about that in his documentary film. I

40:42

don't know if I don't know

40:44

if it's an addiction or less. But yeah, folks

40:46

tend to stick with it. This is no, the

40:48

runners high. So are we talking like a while you're

40:51

doing it? Or when you're done, you just like, I

40:53

feel like there's a little bit of difference, sir. I

40:55

never felt either bro. I ran for quite some

40:58

time and I never got shit. So which one

41:00

of you was probably have a blessing making so

41:02

hypoglycemia will totally kill any runners high and they

41:04

will determine what could be a euphoric, like

41:07

elated experience into just I hate life.

41:09

I hate myself. I hate everybody around

41:11

me. Yeah,

41:13

so hypoglycemia. I can't talk prep. Yeah, totally.

41:16

It is. Even when I was in dirt

41:18

running across country, I don't really ever

41:20

remember that like, runners

41:27

high. I want to say like, one time I

41:29

kind of thought that I was there. But I was like, is this

41:31

it? I was like, you

41:35

know, you always feel good when you're done. Like when

41:37

you go lift, right? There's just something gratifying when you're

41:39

done with like a really hard workout. You're

41:41

just like, oh, sure. That was good.

41:44

Sure. Now that makes a ton of sense. We're

41:46

all at actually different stuff. Yeah, oh, yeah, sure.

41:48

Everyone's addicted to breathing air drinking water, eating food,

41:50

by the way. So anytime I get high and

41:52

mighty that other people are addicted to those shows,

41:54

you got to shut the fuck up about it.

41:57

So okay, so The

42:00

runner's high is something you can get,

42:02

but most people tend to

42:05

be interested in the accomplishment

42:08

and the ability to say, wow, I did

42:10

that thing. It was fucking hard and I'm

42:13

still here. I'm really enjoying

42:15

Mike, like try to conceptualize why

42:17

a person would do endurance sports. It's

42:20

like I can see his wheels turning. It's tough.

42:23

It's tough because it's so goddamn

42:25

difficult. It's as

42:27

tough as I would say, anytime people

42:30

espouse the gym lifestyle and training with

42:32

weights and they're like, why

42:34

don't people, more people train? Ask them to be

42:36

like, excuse me, do you realize that every repetition

42:38

of the lift physically hurts and

42:41

most people just aren't into hurting themselves

42:43

willingly? This is kind of a

42:45

big sell. Also unlike running and cycling, lifting looks like

42:47

it can fucking hurt you, hurt you, things will fall

42:50

on you and you'll break into pieces. So anytime someone's

42:52

like, I just don't get it why people don't lift

42:54

or they're scared of the gym. I'm

42:56

like, are you out of your mind? And also

42:58

people smell in there and they fucking look weird.

43:00

They look angry. Endurance

43:02

athletics people as a rule are just,

43:04

man, they're just, they seem like

43:06

I don't want to offend anybody.

43:08

They're just better people. You

43:11

know, they're nicer. They're

43:13

calmer. They're friendly. That's true. That's

43:16

true based on your observations? Better

43:19

people. No, I would say

43:21

maybe if you look at

43:23

the data, yeah, maybe there's a trend

43:25

towards higher socioeconomic status. I'm

43:27

not going to imply causation than

43:31

gym goers, but I don't know.

43:34

Generally the running community is open,

43:36

relatively speaking. Like if you're a newbie and

43:39

you start like kind of trying to running

43:42

with some folks that know what they're doing, are they kind of

43:44

like, oh, like we're great. You don't

43:46

have fun keeping up the pace or are they kind of

43:48

like more elitist about it or does it kind of just

43:50

depend on the scenario more than? Yeah, super open community. Unless

43:53

you have some sort of like unnatural,

43:56

non-organic. nutrition

44:00

ideas like you want to consume

44:02

sugar that you purchase from Walmart

44:05

that might get poo coo because there

44:07

is like that's where the elitism comes

44:10

in is like around white people again

44:14

Whole Foods out shopping motherfuckers. I got

44:17

you. Yeah, but generally open totally inviting

44:19

you Absolutely. Yep. So when when people

44:21

use your app and it instructs them

44:23

that the primary source of carbohydrate that's

44:26

gonna be sucrose, which is table

44:28

sugar, then they're gonna

44:30

be like, oh my god, this is profoundly cheap.

44:32

And then obviously, I'm sure you guys get the

44:34

next question from curious people that are like, okay,

44:36

so like, where's the website? Is

44:38

there like natural sugar is a cane sugar and you're

44:41

like, white sugar from

44:43

Walmart by Domino Farms. White

44:46

labeled to Walmart is totally fine. And they're like,

44:48

do they have like an ontological shock like Neo

44:50

coming out of a matrix like but but but

44:52

but but but I can't possibly be do you

44:54

ever get that sort of thing that

44:57

that's probably the primary

44:59

blocker to adopting our

45:01

end for sure. That

45:03

is the single biggest blocker is that

45:05

people absolutely cannot

45:07

believe that sugar is

45:10

a valuable fuel for endurance sports

45:12

crazy. Yeah, you've been told that

45:15

you need this pretty branded package

45:17

of gat as

45:19

I asked you to read Alex, I

45:21

got you, man. I got you. Okay.

45:23

I'm gonna go buy table sugar from

45:25

Walmart, or wherever I go

45:28

to where sugar is made. I'm gonna

45:30

buy like 10,000 pounds of it. I'm

45:32

going to put it in a package

45:34

that like says, I don't know, I'll just

45:36

call sucrose, right? Because people don't even realize sucrose

45:38

or sugar. I wouldn't go to science. Right? Oh,

45:40

sucrose. Okay. And then I'm gonna like put Saturday

45:43

morning on it. Maybe you're like, maybe I just

45:45

sell it to you. You resell who knows, right?

45:47

We're getting crazy here. But like, isn't that absurd

45:49

how people can be like that is literally the

45:52

same thing. You just put it in different packaging

45:54

and like, call it it's like technical name. I

45:57

don't think you get any objections to it. Yeah.

46:01

I think we're going to have to sell it wrong. Alex,

46:03

next proposal was quite fine,

46:07

but I have another proposal. We need to

46:10

get the branding and the advertising on

46:12

point to our demographic. Who are the

46:14

primary people that pay money for apps

46:16

and run endurance? Well

46:18

to do middle-class, upper

46:20

middle-class, lower

46:22

upper-class motherfuckers. Of

46:25

all races, but only one culture, modern

46:27

liberal Americans, what do they like? They

46:29

like shopping at Whole Foods and they

46:31

like everything to be organic and natural.

46:34

Alex, I will do the best

46:36

fucking ad read for your shit you

46:38

have ever heard in your life. I'm

46:40

going to be like, look, guys, this

46:42

product contains what is technically sugar. And

46:45

I know that scares you, but please

46:47

let me finish. Every

46:49

single sugar cane, physical

46:52

plant that we raise on

46:54

our completely equitable sourced, technically

46:56

socialist farm in Honduras that

46:58

the Hondurans themselves started in

47:00

a state owned, but in

47:02

a really nice, not miles

47:05

a dung kind of way,

47:07

more like a grandfather, Lenin

47:09

kind of way. And

47:11

each single plant is nurtured

47:13

by a combination of gentle,

47:16

wide eyed children and

47:18

friendly animals. They all stand

47:21

around shooting their heart, Mati

47:23

from Captain America energy at

47:25

the fucking plants. And that means there's

47:28

love physically, literal love inside the plant.

47:30

It gets to you and none of

47:32

this is exploitative at all because they've

47:34

all approved of it and they actually

47:36

march over and bring you the things

47:38

you can touch the little child hands,

47:41

little animal hands as they exchange the

47:43

sugar to you and at 100% of

47:46

the proceeds go back to charity to

47:48

become a, it's just

47:50

a, the charity is sustainable

47:52

drinking water in Antarctica. And

47:55

I'm telling you, man, you will make

47:57

$1 trillion in a fucking whole food.

48:00

parking lot sounds some shit like that who's in

48:02

yeah yeah that's that's pretty accurate

48:04

maybe they're a little bit but yes

48:06

totally but figuring out that branding problem

48:08

is really is really that's

48:11

the challenge of our company is figuring

48:13

out how to brand sugar and

48:15

say that it's yeah connect with the

48:18

naturalist policy connect with me like over

48:21

reliance on like highly scientifically

48:23

refined things in old sport science

48:25

lab get rid of

48:28

that's the challenge that's tough man

48:30

it's so trippy culturally not to get too far

48:33

on this but these are

48:35

the same literal humans that

48:37

you'll be like well i don't really do

48:39

the whole vaccine thing and they're like don't

48:41

you trust the science and i'm like

48:43

boom i got you motherfucker not only have i taken

48:45

every single madurna vaccine fucking willingly and i love the

48:47

shit more vaccines means better things for me i also

48:50

understand science which means if i can get real

48:52

cheap sucrose and refuel my run with the ship

48:54

i'm winning on all cylinders and then don't try

48:56

to get at me with that sugar is bad

48:59

for you shit because this just literally like

49:02

blunt face on scientific

49:04

it's anti-scientific and the

49:06

naturalistic fallacy bullshit of like well like does it

49:08

come from like a plan and like i don't

49:11

know it's like you are just

49:13

in the hippy-dippy nonsense land and

49:15

when people do it in a certain way that

49:17

pisses off your ideology you're like well don't trust

49:19

the science you know but fauci knows best which

49:21

i think he fucking does i'm gonna get a

49:23

fucking cancel or that one uh

49:25

easy right-wingers all jokes uh but

49:28

um you know on the other hand they'll be like

49:30

well like i mean i i sugar cane i think

49:32

is okay but but but why sugar from the store

49:35

my god and you're like you just have a

49:37

lot of feelings you don't actually know anything but

49:40

you can't say that because you gotta sell the shit you've got to be

49:42

nice to people yeah for sure i

49:44

don't i don't actually blame the folks and

49:46

i don't think the natural the naturalistic fallacy

49:48

or the super organic this

49:51

and that is is the biggest driving factor

49:53

it's that it's that i

49:55

mean gatorade's for science institute has existed since

49:57

the 90s and They

50:00

market so well to the dieticians

50:02

and like a send like the

50:04

the governing body of all dieticians

50:06

that even dieticians don't know the

50:08

actual science because. The

50:10

messaging has been that it's it has to be

50:13

some sort of special multiple

50:15

extremely close to those concoction that only get

50:17

rid of the formula of. I'm

50:20

so even the

50:22

post to know the real deal the

50:24

dieticians often don't. Man dieticians

50:27

are really good people but there's some

50:29

extremists in that camp that can do

50:31

both things wrong. I've

50:33

both known the dieticians fall

50:36

for over a lion's and get

50:38

your power etc and also known dieticians

50:40

that have some kind of like. Really

50:42

deep seated anti corporate thing with their lake

50:44

you don't need gatorade or power a regular

50:46

table sugar works just find your like a

50:48

book gatorade power okay to know and you're

50:50

like okay okay i think you're losing your

50:52

mind. I think they're both good but if

50:54

you want to save some money and have

50:57

really good fuel you can just make yourself

50:59

like if you grab and properly to look

51:01

at right but still works right. Yes

51:03

yeah yeah yeah you want to

51:05

talk i just want to just pull me to

51:07

something so i can hate it and i can

51:09

feel good about myself mister naksha i

51:12

hate you. You know i think we need i

51:14

think we need a we need

51:16

a pill or a sentence of gpt

51:18

designer some other designed that

51:21

opens people's minds to

51:23

nuance for like we need to

51:25

pay attention to nuance and also. Yeah

51:32

how important is it for you guys that

51:35

folks that are really well ranked. Do

51:38

well as users of

51:40

your app as he has

51:42

endorsed her concoctions. Is

51:45

that a thing in endurance athletics that people even

51:47

pay attention to much for the bodybuilding of a

51:49

top pro starts using some shit a lot of

51:51

people like this is the thing but is there

51:53

like a fan culture in endurance athletics or is

51:55

it such a massive work of like most people

51:57

don't even know who won the fucking boston marathon.

51:59

Yeah. huge fan culture for sure. So

52:01

like I do this 500,000 people are going to try that thing.

52:07

We're like, not. Oh

52:09

my God. What's his name? The

52:11

Olympic champion in triathlon. His name is escaping

52:14

me. Yeah. He's gigantic fan

52:17

club and his, his like whole

52:19

MO is hyper scientific, hyper measured

52:21

everything. So he's like every session is

52:23

basically he's got like a rolling physiology lab with

52:25

him and scientists monitoring it. And

52:28

so like, there's this huge like

52:30

movement in the enthusiast in terms of the triathlon

52:32

world where they're like, I need a CGM. I

52:34

need to be measuring this and that. And nobody

52:36

knows what to do with the data. But they're

52:38

like, I feel more. It's just an, it's an

52:41

emotional thing. They feel like they're being more scientific.

52:44

That whole like, a lot of

52:46

data with nothing to do about

52:48

it is an interesting situation where

52:51

we were contemplating earlier

52:57

how to do a display for post-metals cycle

52:59

stats in the RPA and Pertrophy app. And

53:02

I had a long talk with the

53:04

engineers about like, oh, there's definitely all kinds of really

53:06

cool potpourri we could put in here about what you

53:08

did. But almost all of it

53:11

is like white noise level of insignificance. And the

53:13

app actually just auto regulates everything for you. So

53:15

I never look at my shit. But

53:17

you have to do a balancing act where you kind

53:19

of high level tell people what is potentially actionable. But

53:22

not a lot of stuff that's not and that's

53:24

so funny too. Because a lot of

53:26

times it's the people that do you hope I'm

53:29

not going to speak for you Alex in internal

53:31

athletics, you find that there's an intersection where some

53:33

people that like consistently

53:35

miss important training runs

53:37

and slack off but also like when they

53:39

show up, they're like extra sciency and have

53:42

$500 shoes on and all this other shit. Then you're just like, how

53:45

do you think this adds up for you? People

53:48

make fun of those people behind their back? Or

53:51

just to their face? You know, I

53:54

don't know how much making fun of there is, but I

53:56

would say I rolling. I

53:58

wish Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

54:00

I wish that people could understand

54:03

the consistency No,

54:08

that's not really things I just

54:10

made that up but they I mean $300 on

54:12

a pair of like carbon fiber shoes Or

54:16

spend like six hours reading Shoes

54:18

are gonna buy and then you can just enough training Oh,

54:21

so so I mean how much weight difference would

54:23

that cause that what are we talking like two

54:25

ounces? Oh people absolutely fret

54:27

over tenths of an ounce in shoes

54:31

Okay, like anything do you

54:35

I'm sure they've thought about that too It's

54:38

funny sometimes people forget the body piece

54:40

Yeah, and people certainly forget the numerator

54:42

in the like power and fitness to

54:45

body weight ratio apiece It's

54:47

so easy to get thought up in

54:49

the denominator and the weight and just

54:51

be like, okay I'm

54:54

gonna get skinny as I can I've

54:56

consulted with a few folks who are underweight

54:58

for their sport And because

55:00

the sport was power weight ratio sport So like

55:03

I feel good at this weight and I was

55:05

like higher numbers and they're like I haven't running

55:07

as well like So

55:11

Doesn't matter how you feel if the fucking numbers

55:13

look good and like no, but then like back

55:15

to something you said earlier Alex it's like some

55:18

people are just kind of doing it for the Masochism

55:21

or is it

55:24

is it do some does somebody this

55:26

morphia? Eating disorder stuff

55:28

find its way into endurance athletics. Yeah

55:31

Can you tell who's really suffering from it

55:34

just by visual analysis? Obviously if it's bad

55:36

enough you can tell I guess or yeah,

55:38

it's really really extreme. Yeah visually it's easy

55:40

to tell but Usually

55:43

it's more just a conversation a pretty quick

55:45

conversation How they feel about feeling it a

55:47

lot of fear comes up around feeling there's

55:50

a chance of restricting unnecessarily Things

55:53

that that's the reason why you say triathlon

55:56

is pushing us out to all the high

55:58

schoolers for triathlon in the country country

56:00

because having

56:03

an app that tells you you need this

56:05

amount of fuel for your training gives people

56:07

with eating disorder tendencies license to

56:09

fuel and it basically makes them more willing

56:11

and open to the idea I'd actually do.

56:16

Alex, we're going to probably start wrapping

56:18

up here before too long, but like

56:20

can you share some type of crazy

56:23

story around endurance athletics? I feel like

56:25

it's a good way to put that

56:27

bow on this episode here. Crazy

56:30

story. I know you got

56:32

one. Let's see. I

56:34

remember my wife Michelle.

56:36

Who's a very good athlete in her own right. Yeah,

56:39

she's a just she was doing a 310 mile ride in the.

56:44

I don't want to hear any more of the story.

56:46

Fuck that. That's not a crazy part. The crazy part

56:49

is because she's in Washington

56:51

state, it's wet here, humid here

56:53

in the winter. Her cable on

56:55

her bike for her

56:58

shifting cable broke 90

57:00

miles from the finish of her 310 mile

57:03

ride. And so her bike was

57:05

stuck in one gear, which gear like just

57:07

a middling gear, kind of a hard year.

57:10

At least it wasn't the lowest or highest

57:12

gear. It was a Seattle. So she's basically

57:14

like climbing. She's got like a cadence of 20 normal

57:16

cadence is 80 or 90 and she's got like a cadence of

57:19

I'm like riding alongside her, like occasionally pushing her up

57:21

the hills because it's like it's

57:24

called the five hundred all the most

57:26

extreme endurance cyclists do it. Or they do 500

57:29

kilometers in a week. Some of the

57:31

craziest ones do it in a day or some shows doing so.

57:33

Yeah, she was hallucinating on the Seattle bridge going

57:35

back and forth, getting less 20 miles because she

57:38

couldn't get up the hills off the bridge. So

57:40

she's just gone back and forth, back and forth. Yeah.

57:44

What? Wait, there is no finish line.

57:47

You just do the 500 kilometers and that's it. Correct.

57:50

You log 500 kilometers. Oh, my God.

57:54

Race. It's just so important. That's

57:56

all mission. It's the Rafa. Rafa is the company

57:58

that puts on. You got to sync

58:00

up with those people because you know, those people are crazy. They

58:02

got to be using your app. Like you got to find the

58:05

craziest people and the craziest races. And that's going to be like

58:07

your bread and butter. Yes. When

58:09

crazy runs out of fuel, trust

58:11

the Saturday. Holy

58:17

shit. Um, Alex, before

58:19

we let you go, you, I just

58:22

put this together, even though I know you're on time, look

58:25

and sound profoundly like Sam Harris.

58:27

Has anyone ever told you that?

58:30

No, I had no idea. I

58:33

don't think I know what he sounds like, but apparently like me. Exactly.

58:35

I can see, I can see a little bit of a resemblance now

58:37

that you said I wouldn't have thought about it off the top of

58:40

my head, but it's like when I was saying is where after you

58:42

hear it, then you can't not see it anymore. Nick,

58:45

you look and sound like males on

58:48

a chalkboard. I'm

58:51

not going to disagree. I

58:53

hate myself too. And

58:55

I look and sound like, like I should chop the fuck up

58:58

and let Alex go on as Mary way. Um,

59:01

tell us so we can find

59:04

your app on Google play. We can find

59:06

it on the iTunes store. And

59:09

what's that website again? Uh,

59:12

Saturday morning dot fit. Saturday morning

59:14

dot fit. The app is

59:16

called Saturday morning. Just

59:18

called Saturday. Just Saturday. So why is it Saturday

59:20

morning dot fit? Uh, we

59:22

rebranded them and we bought saturday.com yet. Okay.

59:25

Let me go. That's a, that's tough. Yeah.

59:27

saturday.com is right. Someone stole that one. Um,

59:31

Nick, I'm no good at sending people off, but,

59:33

uh, so please take over. Uh, folks, I'll also

59:35

say Alex Harrison is also an RP one-on-one coach.

59:37

Uh, we actually will have to get them back

59:39

on where we actually talk about coaching the, uh,

59:41

we sort of veered off a little bit on

59:43

the endurance way, but there's so much, man,

59:45

and there's just so much similarities, right between

59:48

bodybuilding and lifting and the endurance world, we

59:50

just had to riff on that. So Alex,

59:53

uh, rpsrink.com people can get you as their coach. We

59:55

will get you back on to talk a little bit

59:57

more about coaching because you've now been on several times

59:59

and we have. We haven't made it there because all

1:00:01

we want to talk about is endurance stuff because it

1:00:03

is so fascinating. Yep. My

1:00:06

pleasure. Thanks guys. Thank you so

1:00:08

much Jeff. Thanks everyone for tuning in.

1:00:10

We will catch you on the next episode.