0:00

You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in

0:02

partnership with Montclair. If

0:05

you're in politics, being outgoing, engaging

0:08

and caring is part of the job. And

0:10

these the words often used to describe

0:13

the Governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy and

0:15

first Lady Tammy Murphy. But

0:17

having been close to Phil and

0:19

Tammy for as long as I have, I

0:22

know this is truly who they are.

0:24

In two thousand and eight, Phil was the finance

0:27

chair for the Democratic National Committee,

0:29

and as Americans abroad, we supported

0:32

the presidential campaign for Barack Obama.

0:35

Phil and Tammy worked day and night, traveling

0:37

to London so often we thought they

0:39

lived there. Our conversations

0:42

then were always about society and politics,

0:45

the sense of public service that runs

0:47

so deeply in them. Their eyes,

0:49

though, really lit up when we discussed their four

0:51

children. Today we're

0:54

having this conversation in the Governor's

0:56

office in New Jersey, the state

0:58

he is deeply committed to, out of and

1:00

loves, And these are actually the

1:02

very same words I would use to describe

1:05

how I feel about Phil and Tammy

1:07

Murphy. Committed proud, two

1:09

people I love, very

1:11

special you true.

1:14

So the recipe that you chose was

1:17

the chocolate Nemesis. I have to say it

1:19

has been taken once by Ray

1:22

Fines no pressure, but

1:24

we would love to do it again and love you to

1:27

read it. One if you could read the ingredients

1:30

and one the method, or you can both read together,

1:32

however you want to divide it.

1:33

If I read the ingredients, the best part. That's

1:36

why we pick.

1:36

That's why I picked.

1:37

Chocolatesis importantly

1:40

you love chocolate Nemesis, the best chocolate

1:42

cake ever?

1:44

Yes? Do you agree?

1:45

Liked percent?

1:46

Are your chocolate lover?

1:48

Not as much as missus, she's

1:51

insane. So it serves

1:53

ten to twelve Is that a pound

1:55

and a half? Yes, it is a bitter chocolate

1:57

in small pieces.

1:59

Ten eggs and eggs that's

2:01

a big cake.

2:02

If it's a big cake, one pound

2:04

of sugar and one

2:07

pound of unsalted butter

2:10

over the tammy, simple and

2:12

all.

2:12

The ingredients that I love to eat.

2:14

Okay, So preheat the oven to three

2:16

hundred and twenty five degrees fahrenheit. Line

2:19

a twelve by two

2:21

inch cake tin with wax paper,

2:24

then grease and flour it.

2:26

Beat the eggs with of

2:28

the sugar.

2:29

Until the volume quadruples. This

2:32

will take at least ten

2:34

minutes. Heat the remaining sugar

2:36

in a small pan with eight fluid ounces

2:38

of water until the sugar has dissolved

2:40

to a syrup. Add the chocolate

2:43

and butter.

2:44

Stir.

2:45

Then pour the syrup to the eggs and continue

2:47

to beat until combined. Pour

2:50

into the cake tin and place in a band marie

2:52

of hot water. Bake in

2:55

thirty minutes or until set. Test

2:57

by placing the flat of your hand gently

3:00

on the surface. Delicious, served

3:02

with crem fresh.

3:04

That's so good.

3:07

All the things we can't eat, well

3:09

you can so tell me about the Nemesis. Why did

3:11

you choose it?

3:12

Just because it has almost all

3:14

of the taboo items. I love a

3:16

pound of butter, you know, ten

3:19

eggs, a pound of

3:21

sugar, and of course chocolate.

3:23

Okay, so I have to inject.

3:25

When Tammy was a child, yes before

3:28

we met, would sneak into her

3:30

refrigerate, her parents refrigerator, pull

3:33

out bars of

3:35

butter and eat the butter.

3:37

There were teeth barks in all the butter, and it was always

3:40

me. I love butter, particularly salty

3:42

butter.

3:42

Oh you like it salted like salty? Good butter?

3:44

In New Jersey, do they make butter

3:47

here.

3:47

We actually we are the garden

3:49

State, so we actually

3:51

do have some incredible farms

3:54

here. We have some regenerative farming that goes on

3:56

and in fact, we always try and find a

3:58

gift that's typical New Jersey to send

4:00

all of our friends for the holidays.

4:02

Also, this is in a different lane, but we

4:04

we've just we've got an exploding

4:06

winery, distillery, breweries

4:09

industry here.

4:10

What is the wine? Like?

4:11

Wine is good?

4:12

Surprisingly good when you first

4:14

hear wine from New Jersey people, so

4:17

say, wait a minute, that doesn't sound right, but very

4:19

very good. Stands up well, good value

4:21

for money.

4:22

There's one wine that there was

4:24

a blind taste test in Chicago

4:27

before, something called the Governor's Cup where you give out

4:29

these awards for wine.

4:31

What is a Governor's Cup.

4:32

It's where the governor.

4:34

Basically best wine through blind

4:36

testing and we do it at the Governor's

4:38

mansion.

4:38

It's very cool. We do it for wine

4:41

and beer, right.

4:42

Craft beer, Yeah, the Governor's Yes,

4:44

Governor's.

4:45

Cup is wine. I figure what we call the craft beer.

4:48

It's also for not spirits

4:50

but liqueurs like the

4:52

curse. But in

4:55

a blind taste testing in Chicago,

4:57

one of the wines in New Jersey beat out every

4:59

other wine, French wines, Californian wines,

5:02

So that was a big

5:03

deal.

5:04

Yeah, there is there a part of the

5:06

state where the grapes grow. Is there

5:08

one? Is it like Napo or you know where you have a

5:11

region.

5:11

Yeah, it is interesting. We are the fourth

5:14

smallest state in the country.

5:16

Geographically we're the

5:18

eleventh largest population, so we are

5:20

far and away the most densely populated state.

5:23

So space is a challenge in New Jersey.

5:25

It turns out the wineries are

5:27

located largely in rural

5:30

areas, but really up and down the state.

5:32

When we first got into office, at

5:35

least I thought they were all in the southern southern

5:37

part of the state. It turns out there up and down, but

5:40

obviously in rural settings.

5:42

Not a great state, someone told me yesterday.

5:44

Because I've been studying New Jersey. I love that.

5:47

And to talk of densely populated

5:50

and also the most

5:52

it has the most diversity, it does, and

5:54

that's in term. Well we could start talking about

5:57

food right there, because if you have

5:59

a diverse population, you have

6:01

diverse food. Tell me about

6:04

you know, the different people who live here,

6:06

from different cultures, from and how

6:08

that it's expressed in their food and restaurants.

6:11

How about if I start with the cultures and you give me

6:13

the un and the restaurants. We

6:15

are, by many measures, the most diverse American

6:18

state. We have

6:21

one of the top South Asian populations,

6:23

Indian, Pakistani in particular, the

6:26

Latino populations. We're

6:28

in the top three of any of the sub categories

6:31

Colombia, Ecuadorian, Mexican, et

6:33

cetera, booming

6:36

Korean population and Asian

6:38

population generally.

6:40

And then you've got the.

6:41

Populations that have been here for

6:44

a long time, the Irish, the Germans, the

6:46

Poles, Italians, the Italians without

6:48

question, without question, and

6:50

then to your very fair point, big Arab

6:52

community, so one of the largest Arab communities

6:55

in the in the United States,

6:57

one of the biggest and most consequential African

6:59

Americamerican populations,

7:02

and that all of that has

7:04

huge impact on the state in so many

7:06

respects. But certainly per

7:08

our discussion food, how

7:10

would you in well

7:12

food?

7:13

I think one of the things about all of the

7:15

different cultures being here is that because we're

7:17

so small, you can go to pockets

7:20

and find incredible restaurants

7:23

and.

7:24

Cantenas and.

7:27

The very typical food of

7:29

a different culture.

7:31

So you go. We talk all the time about the

7:33

fact that we have some.

7:34

Of the deepest benches

7:36

where people are living right on top of each other,

7:38

where you have no choice but to experience

7:41

someone else's culture and cuisine.

7:43

In New Jersey though, the

7:45

corn, the tomatoes, the blueberries,

7:49

the raspberries, the cranberry

7:51

bogs. I mean, we have the best

7:53

food you can find. And the

7:56

summers here are amazing with everything

7:58

that's available really exciting.

8:01

And so you have these farms, you have people

8:04

different cultures of eating. Is food

8:06

a important part of would you say?

8:08

The diversity as well?

8:11

Lots of diners. We're going to a diner later

8:13

on.

8:14

What do we eat in the diner?

8:16

What are we going to We're gonna go to the Tops diner.

8:18

Yeah, lunch is usually for me a Greek

8:20

salad, minestadions.

8:23

But they have everything.

8:26

I mean, it depends if you're having a

8:28

nail or ham.

8:29

Or depends on what part of the state.

8:32

That's a good question. But they have diners are

8:34

like almost a unique Jersey thing.

8:36

This is a feature.

8:37

Tell me yesterday I was with you know, we

8:39

have a new ambassador Jane Hardley

8:42

and Ralph. So I was with Ralph last

8:44

night and he was saying that the best pizzas

8:46

from Jersey City. Do you know this place?

8:48

Well, we know, we know that

8:50

New Jersey has the best pizzas anywhere

8:53

and the best bagels.

8:54

Oh I didn't.

8:55

And we compete aggressively against New York

8:57

City and Connecticut for both of those titles.

9:00

I like this being a food competition.

9:02

Bill has this Twitter account for the state,

9:04

and the state competes in like lobs

9:06

comments out there, like you know, talking

9:09

about where certain food groups were

9:11

created and who has the best pizza,

9:13

and it's a constant battle going on.

9:15

Yeah, no, it's fo Last.

9:17

Night they were really into the they have a pizza club,

9:19

you know. Ralph and for

9:21

people who were at this dinner was talking about they

9:23

go out every once a month to find the best

9:25

pizza. So they were very impressed

9:27

by Jersey City.

9:30

So going back to the beginning and talking about

9:32

you rating your parents' fridge for the butter, what

9:34

was it like growing We'll talk about both of you,

9:36

but what was growing up in your house food

9:39

wise?

9:40

Well, first of all, you may or may not remember, my mother

9:42

was British.

9:43

She was an excellent cook when

9:45

she chose to be.

9:47

She also had an incredible

9:49

sweet tooth, so we always had lots of sweets around

9:51

for sure. But you

9:53

know, I think back about those days. I'm

9:55

the youngest of five and when everyone

9:57

used to go away. You know, when I be

10:00

the youngest, people were gone, they were gone to college wherever

10:02

they were. And so a

10:04

major period of my life I

10:07

spent having the highlight of the

10:09

week being to go to the grocery store with my

10:11

mother and go to the frozen food

10:13

section and pick out my TV dinner TV

10:16

dinners for each night.

10:17

So it would be the week for the week we would.

10:19

Go and pick out the TV dinners because we

10:21

were You said she was a good cook.

10:23

She was an excellent cook, but she chose to But

10:25

it was so easy, you know.

10:27

And also when we go from cooking

10:29

for seven to cooking for

10:31

two or three, it kind of takes a little

10:33

bit.

10:33

Of the joiney out of it.

10:34

Can we ask it?

10:35

I don't want to take baton

10:37

here, but can you tell us your favorite TV

10:39

dinner that animates

10:42

all of us? No?

10:43

No, no, So I would come home from school

10:46

and sit down and eat. No, this

10:48

is no joke, probably a box of pop

10:50

tarts, a box a box of

10:52

pop tarts, and then after I finished my box of pop

10:54

Tarts several hours later, we would I would tuck into my

10:56

TV.

10:57

Dinner and then you tuck into the butter, right, the

11:03

arazy, healthy person having.

11:06

So we hadn't thought about this, even though we've known

11:08

each other for thirty seven years and when we're going out for

11:10

thirty we hadn't had this conversation untill

11:12

earlier today because we said, what are we going to say to Ruthie

11:14

about food? We had a remarkably similar

11:17

upbringing on the food front. I was the youngest

11:19

of four dinners, not TV dinners

11:21

but chef boy r D and

11:23

a cane.

11:25

How many were you?

11:26

I'm youngest of four and similar to Tam,

11:29

older siblings were significantly older.

11:32

So for most of my formative years it

11:34

was me and my mom and.

11:36

Dad and uh.

11:38

But on the flip side of that, I don't know if you

11:40

agree with this, It made as we

11:42

grew up and grew older our appreciation

11:45

for really good food River Cafe,

11:47

the great Italians.

11:48

I think of you as great eaters.

11:50

Yeah we are, but I think it.

11:53

The other way. But also did both

11:56

did either or both of your mother's work.

11:58

Did they have jobs to do during the day.

12:01

My mom helped my father in his business, but she

12:04

was a a in the garden

12:06

all day long.

12:09

Yes, vegetables or flowers.

12:12

Mostly flowers, mostly flowers. But she

12:14

would work in the garden. By the way, I don't

12:16

want to to

12:18

misstate my mother was an excellent cook,

12:20

but she just when she had to decide that she wanted

12:23

to do it fair enough.

12:24

What did she cook when she cooked?

12:26

She used to cook literally a

12:28

crown roast, she'd cook, she'd cook

12:31

burgers, she'd cook chili, she'd cook

12:33

you know, white fit I mean anything, anything

12:35

and everything, sweets, lots of sweets,

12:37

lots of cheesecakes, lots of lots

12:40

of pastries.

12:42

She used to make a lot of cookies.

12:45

And a lot of her recipes have been handed down, so we all still

12:47

have that little book.

12:48

I do so many people, you know, I've interviewed

12:51

now something like I

12:53

think we're on we're on a hundred episode.

12:55

We've probably this is one hundred and four. But so

12:58

many people do talk about

13:00

the handed down recipe book that they

13:03

haven't And the other thing

13:05

that I've noticed a lot is that people very often talk

13:07

about their grandmothers almost more than their mothers.

13:10

Interesting, and did you well before we go

13:12

to grandmother's, what was your family like cooking?

13:15

Similar to Tammy's, Similar to Tammy's

13:17

And again I think you started to say

13:19

this, and I think you're absolutely right, and

13:21

they're unlike Tammy's mom, there wasn't a

13:24

really outstanding cook in our family. My

13:26

dad actually is probably the closest, and he was

13:28

more of a shortness.

13:29

He called himself a short order cook.

13:32

This is his career. What did this job?

13:33

Oh, he did a whole bunch of things. He didn't get out of high school, so he

13:35

did a whole He was a paid Paul bearer,

13:38

He worked in a warehouse, He ran a liquor

13:40

store where Murphy's.

13:42

After all, we have to drop the liquor in there. So

13:44

he did a bunch of things over the years. But

13:47

I think when you have that sort of

13:50

relationship to food, this is one guy's

13:52

opinion, growing up you go one of two ways.

13:55

When you grow up, you sort

13:57

of stay in that lane, or you

14:00

start tasting really good food and

14:02

you explode and just welcome

14:05

everything. And I think we've all as

14:07

you know, we've lived around

14:09

the world. Tammy lived in London, we lived

14:11

together in Germany, in Asia,

14:15

now in the most diverse state in

14:17

America. Once we crossed

14:19

the rubicon into sort

14:21

of seeing and tasting and feeling

14:24

what really good food was, we never looked

14:26

back. And Tammy's a great cook. Really,

14:29

I can see.

14:29

I was so flattered because I

14:32

came in and this is audio,

14:34

so it's not visual. But if it was visual, I would show the

14:37

cookbook that you brought in with the recipe

14:39

for the nemesis for little tabs through

14:41

the book, which a well worn

14:43

cookbook is a treasure.

14:45

Really, it's it's very nice for me to

14:48

see that meant a lot.

14:50

I need to bring up the show it to you coveted,

14:54

very very nice.

14:55

But when you were growing up, did you have meals

14:58

as a family together? Would you down?

15:00

And we have very few because I was so young

15:02

relative to my siblings,

15:05

and my dad and mom worked different schedules,

15:07

so I more often than

15:09

not had dinner A friend

15:11

would come over and my mom would cook

15:14

something, or one

15:16

of my closest friends was an Italian first

15:18

generation dad and an

15:21

Italian American wife, and

15:23

they were really good cooks. So I would

15:26

try to get to Sammy Chicaloni's as often

15:28

as I could, because I knew I

15:29

did remember, Yeah, mostly

15:31

pasta, homemade pasta and homemade sauces.

15:34

They were first generation Italian.

15:36

The dad was and the mom was Italian American,

15:39

really really good.

15:40

Do you remember the pastas?

15:42

I remember Bolanese was

15:45

the one sauce that jumps out

15:47

in my memory really good,

15:49

and I think it was largely spaghetti. How you

15:53

this was through high school, So

15:55

this is middle school in high school, so seventeen

15:58

or eighteen, from probably nine

16:00

or ten up through there.

16:01

When you had all your when your siblings came

16:03

home, was that then

16:06

that would be an occasion for doing peas? Okay,

16:08

so what would you what would your mom mate?

16:11

She would make, she would there

16:13

would be for Joe to be filled, so there

16:15

would be you know, everybody had kind of their own options

16:18

as to what they what they could go for. But she

16:20

used to make whatever the favorite

16:22

food is for whoever was going to appear.

16:24

So, but conversation a

16:27

big part of the meal was was there a lot of talk?

16:29

Yes, yeah, yes, and.

16:31

You've got at least your sister.

16:33

Robin continues to be an

16:35

outstanding.

16:36

Cook, right, Susan was a great cook, and your.

16:38

Late sister Susan.

16:39

And so when I got involved

16:41

in Tammy's family, so this is now thirty years

16:43

ago, in nineteen ninety four. We met

16:45

in eighty seven. Didn't go out in a date till ninety four.

16:48

I still don't understand that, but for

16:52

another podcast. But

16:54

when I got in the family, your siblings

16:57

really were picking up the mantle.

17:00

Of hosting Thanksgiving, our.

17:01

Christmas holidays, religious holidays.

17:03

Did you have religious holidays? We were both your

17:06

parents.

17:06

My father was Jewish

17:09

and my mother was Church of England, so

17:12

we used to celebrate some of each. We were

17:14

kind of the Hodgepodge, so we would go over and

17:16

spend Friday night dinners with my father's

17:18

family, grandmother. And I

17:20

was thinking about when you just said this, and I remember

17:23

going in. All you could smell was was parsley

17:26

partially partially should be making MutS

17:28

of all soup and all those those

17:30

great, those great yummy tastes.

17:33

And but but we used to celebrate

17:35

it all, you know, Christmas pudding for Christmas.

17:38

I mean it was we were all we were all by

17:40

the way.

17:40

As governor since day one, and

17:42

as ambassador before that, from day one.

17:45

We host a passover

17:47

sata. Every year we do, and

17:49

so we that's especially knew.

17:52

We have iftar dinners for

17:54

Ramadan, we have Christmas

17:56

related and there's food

17:59

and all of them. We have got Hispanic

18:01

Heritage Month, We'll have a huge Hispanic

18:03

Latino food spread.

18:06

It's fun and we invite and because

18:09

we are in this state and because we want

18:11

to bring people together all the time, we will

18:14

not just invite Jewish

18:16

people to the satar. We will not just invite

18:19

you know, Hispanic people if we're celebrating.

18:21

You know, Spanish history or Spanish Heritage

18:24

Month. So we always try and mix it up

18:26

and invite everyone in.

18:26

And it's fun because people have never tasted

18:28

different foods in many instances, so

18:31

it's great.

18:31

The Sadar is the one that sticks out because we actually

18:33

sit around a table the other ones a

18:35

big receptions. Probably thirty six

18:38

to thirty eight of us at one table. Yeah, it's

18:40

a big, kind of a grand table.

18:42

Reminds us of the table that we had when we

18:44

were in Berlin as ambassador,

18:47

and we deliberately to Tammy's points, that

18:49

table will be filled with obviously Jews,

18:52

Christians, Muslims will have

18:54

Hindu representation, will sick.

18:57

I mean, we'll have a.

19:00

And invariably the reaction is, hey, we

19:02

do something similar in our religion, or

19:05

we eat something similar, or it's

19:07

remarkable how people walk away saying, you

19:09

know it, we're actually a lot more like each other

19:11

after all.

19:12

Well, that's also that that night, it's very special

19:14

because we always have someone who leads the satyr

19:17

and you start explaining

19:19

what the meaning is of the different foods that are on the table.

19:21

So it's all centered around food. With you, you should come to

19:23

one and.

19:24

I would love to food

19:27

and religion, food and tradition. I was

19:29

in Mexico recently and the night

19:31

before I left, I went to some friend's house and

19:33

they have I'm embarrassed to say,

19:35

I don't know the Mexican holiday, but there is

19:37

a holiday after Christmas in which it is rather

19:40

like the French pitivier where you find the little

19:42

crown and then you are the queen.

19:44

But in this one, if you find the crown,

19:46

then you have to host another dinner

19:48

a month later. It's all to

19:51

do with family and tradition and bringing

19:53

everyone together, which we and

19:55

memory isn't it.

19:56

Where's the crown? Is it in the food?

19:58

It's in the cake circular?

20:00

Yes?

20:01

Okay, Hm.

20:07

Did you know the River Cafe has a shop. It's

20:09

full of our favorite foods and designs.

20:12

We have cookbooks, linen, napkins, kitchen

20:14

were toad bags with our signatures,

20:16

glasses from Venice, chocolates from

20:19

Turin. You can find us right next

20:21

door to the River Cafe in London or

20:23

online at shop Therivercafe

20:25

dot co dot uk. What

20:34

about your father's You said.

20:36

That my dad would do more

20:40

than my mom. Brother? How about you? Did your dad ever

20:42

cook barbecue?

20:43

Barbecue?

20:44

It's interesting, isn't it? How the male thing barbecue

20:47

and you cook? Government tell them

20:49

about the barbecue, tell us about your barber.

20:54

We could just stop, that's

20:56

okay.

20:57

When we were engaged, I

21:00

had a in the backyard. Was

21:05

asked by Tammy to go out and get the get

21:08

the We had a weber grill and to

21:10

get the webber. The charcoal fire going

21:13

and it wasn't going to my satisfaction.

21:16

So I picked up the liquid and

21:19

started spraying it into the embers,

21:22

and Tammy ran out and reminded me that

21:24

the fire could have come right back up.

21:25

And so that was I think that might have been the last.

21:28

Time I heard you know what.

21:29

I've actually determined that it was actually very

21:31

intentionally deliberate.

21:32

Because that's

21:35

a good way, that's a good But

21:38

when you left your homes when you left to

21:40

go to college, so was

21:42

that a big change for you in terms

21:44

of exposure to different foods or was

21:47

it mostly living in the dorm and eating

21:49

and the for me it wasn't.

21:51

The real game changer for me was

21:53

moving to New York.

21:54

Okay told me about that.

21:57

After getting a master's degree, getting

21:59

hired to on Wall Street.

22:01

Living in New

22:03

York was the game changer?

22:05

That was it?

22:05

Like, oh, it was just it was like a someone

22:08

opened a door to a beautiful,

22:11

new, different reality as it relates to food,

22:14

and it got really into some really

22:17

special foods.

22:18

But that was the that was the line

22:21

for me. I don't know.

22:22

Did people take you out for sort of fine dining?

22:25

Was it was it?

22:28

And ethnically I'd say both, you'd

22:30

take you'd go out to fine

22:32

dining, typically with a client. Yeah,

22:35

that was as opposed to necessary on my own.

22:38

But the whole waterfront and that was the game

22:41

changer. For me, and then we went over international

22:44

on that further. What about wine,

22:47

same New York again

22:50

for me, that's forty odd years ago,

22:52

I guess forty two years ago.

22:54

Up until then, I.

22:55

Was did you have wine

22:57

in the house very little with me?

23:00

Very little beer? Yeah, occasionally

23:04

a drink.

23:05

So you didn't know that wine was such a yeah?

23:08

Good.

23:08

When did you kind of become aware of food?

23:11

Yeah? Well, far from the butter.

23:15

I actually think it was more I was more

23:17

switched on when I moved overseas, so.

23:20

Going to London and really focusing.

23:22

I moved to London

23:24

in ND eighty nine beginning of ninety so

23:27

you were so yeah,

23:30

and so just you

23:33

know, the pub fair, I mean, just just

23:35

being able to go and experience different

23:37

things.

23:37

And then living in Germany.

23:38

We lived in Frankfurt the first time, and Frankfort

23:40

being such an international airport, they have an entire

23:42

cottage industry of warehouses where

23:44

food was coming in from every corner of the world. You

23:46

could get Durian, you could get tomatoes

23:49

when you couldn't get them anywhere else, and they were always

23:51

Remember I used to go to that place.

23:52

I loved it.

23:53

What was it called?

23:55

It was an incredible. To say

23:57

it was a market would be an understatement.

23:59

Was a massive because Frankfurt

24:02

is the busiest international airport in the world

24:04

and all this cargo comes in and

24:07

then it goes back out to different directions,

24:09

but they clip a fair amount of it off

24:11

the top and it stays there.

24:12

I was going to say that I do know that you met

24:15

over dinner. Well you met, you had you. It's

24:17

often remarked about your first date being over

24:19

dinner. It was possibly

24:22

remember where it was and what you.

24:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so dinner

24:26

was at a restaurant. The first date was at a restaurant

24:28

called Manschans in

24:31

Frankfurt.

24:32

Oh you met, you went out to dinner and.

24:33

Frank But

24:36

then our first that was

24:38

a Sunday, and then we went out again on

24:40

Wednesday in London at a restaurant

24:42

called I'm not I'm sure it's out there, Hilaire,

24:45

Oh.

24:45

Hilaire, I remember.

24:48

It was. It was that

24:51

we always We also liked was the Star of

24:53

India.

24:54

Star of India, a great restaurant on the Fulham

24:57

Road. Yeah. Yeah,

24:59

we got engaged.

25:01

We got the first date to engagement was eighteen

25:04

days. So we got engaged over dinner.

25:07

In an Italian restaurant in Frankfurt.

25:09

Do you remember what you ate? Yes?

25:12

So we we sat it at Table

25:14

nine, which is our table. And they actually

25:17

created Pizza Murphy Pizza,

25:19

Pizza dea Murphy Pizza and it's

25:22

it's basically pizza dough with

25:24

rugola, cherry tomatoes, olive

25:26

oil and really.

25:29

Good main course.

25:32

I can't recall it would have been

25:34

fish fish because they were really

25:36

good. They did a really good They're South Italy

25:39

guys there, Colbrian, Colabrians.

25:41

They're not you, they're not River Cafe,

25:44

but they're well.

25:44

I think Southern Italian food is really good.

25:47

It's really it was really good.

25:48

It's an interesting thing though that when we think about

25:50

how I was introduced to Italian food was

25:52

very much in America the meatballs

25:54

of spaghetti, that's modest, sauce,

25:56

the cheese, and then you go to Italy and actually

25:59

no, it's grilled fish and great herbs

26:01

and there is I mean, both are good, you

26:04

know.

26:04

But we have that experience in New Jersey

26:06

all the time, contrasting to Italy.

26:08

We have that conversation a.

26:10

Lot yea yeah, going

26:12

from getting meeting and have being

26:14

engaged, getting married, having

26:16

four children, How did they grow up

26:18

in the Murphy family with two parents

26:21

like yourselves? And what was meal time like

26:23

for you?

26:24

We'll start and you come in.

26:26

So unlike it your experience in

26:29

my experience when most of our siblings

26:31

were gone. Our kids are two years apart, so

26:33

they're twenty six twenty four, for

26:37

better or for worse. We do a lot

26:39

of meals together and

26:42

which we on the margin really enjoy.

26:45

And I think our kids, I don't think I know this.

26:48

They are so far more advanced

26:51

in their understanding of food and

26:53

cuisine at their ages than I know I

26:55

was, probably you, because

26:58

they've lived Our oldest

27:00

guy has lived both in Asia and in

27:02

Europe. The other three

27:04

have lived in Europe. All four have traveled

27:08

extensively. They appreciate

27:10

it at a younger age, much more

27:12

so than I think either of us, which as I.

27:15

Don't really have much that we eat, we eat. We eat a

27:17

lot of meals together purposefully, intentionally,

27:20

and we schedule our time fill

27:22

and I schedule our time such that we are able

27:24

to ensure we have as many meals

27:26

together as possible.

27:27

And we still try to go out to restaurants.

27:29

But that's a little bit harder in the political

27:31

environment and whatnot, but we still try to go out

27:34

and enjoy a whole range

27:36

of different types of food.

27:42

If you like listening to Ruthie's Table

27:44

four, would you please make sure

27:47

to rate and review the podcast

27:49

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

27:52

Podcasts, Spotify, o, wherever

27:54

you get your podcasts. Thank

27:56

you. While

28:03

we talk about the exposure

28:06

our children have to food, exposure

28:08

they've had to foreign countries and the exposure

28:11

that they've had to sitting at a table

28:14

or enjoying being a family, we

28:16

know that there are a lot of families

28:19

who don't have that, and I know that you're

28:21

working very hard for that, and I think that

28:23

I'm in my own small way in England

28:25

working with restauranteurs and chefs

28:28

about children and hunger, adults

28:30

and hunger, everyone in hunger, and

28:32

certainly during the lockdown, we were exposed

28:34

to the fact that children who were deprived at lunch

28:37

at school had no food because

28:39

that was their one meal a day. So

28:41

perhaps you could tell me what you're thinking about in

28:44

New Jersey or your political

28:46

process for people who don't have food access.

28:48

You framed it very well, the gap

28:51

between those that have and those that have not as

28:53

wide as it's ever been. It's been a

28:55

big agenda for us in New Jersey,

28:57

and in my time as Governor, Tammy's running

28:59

for Senate it's a big piece of her agenda

29:03

as well. Just this week to give

29:05

you. Having said all that, I think New

29:08

Jersey's probably done more than any other

29:10

state in America to battle

29:12

food and security generally and specifically

29:14

for our kids. And one example,

29:18

just this week, I signed a

29:20

law that will provide access

29:24

for a lot more kids to free school

29:27

lunches and breakfasts than before. So

29:29

we raised the income eligibility,

29:32

and we also extended this not just

29:34

in our public schools, but to private

29:37

schools. So I'm incredibly proud. That's

29:39

one step of many we've taken. But

29:41

the gap is not zero. I wish it were, it

29:43

isn't. And one

29:46

of the observations we made at

29:48

this bill signing was

29:51

weekends. Long

29:53

weekends in particular and summer

29:56

are the big exposures because of exactly

29:58

what you said, Ruthie, is that there

30:01

are many kids in our state, in America,

30:03

probably in the world, where their only

30:05

hot meals are going to be if they get to school

30:08

and if they're not going to school Saturday, Sunday,

30:10

or like this week there was a holiday on Monday,

30:13

they may not have that meal or in the summer.

30:15

So that to my way of thinking,

30:17

I think Tammy agrees passionately.

30:20

That's sort of the next frontier before

30:22

us.

30:23

Tim.

30:24

Yeah, No, I go back to the

30:26

pandemic.

30:27

I think because I started something called

30:29

the New Jersey Pandemic Relief Fund during the

30:31

pandemic to help people on the ground

30:33

precisely the topics we're talking about, and

30:36

food security, supporting

30:38

the food banks, supporting the pantries,

30:41

with refrigeration, with

30:44

ppe, with all the things that you

30:46

know, these mom and pop organizations had normally

30:48

just bumbled along and the need

30:51

went, as you know, went through the stratosphere.

30:54

So I think that we learned a lot of lessons.

30:56

I mean, I'm always trying to focus on the silver

30:59

line, and I think out of the pandemic, I

31:02

think that we learned a lot that we're able to now

31:04

put into law, which is what

31:06

fills.

31:09

Two other quickies. One is we

31:11

got criticized because we waited

31:13

a couple of days to shut schools down in

31:15

March of twenty twenty, at the beginning of the

31:17

pandemic. The reason why we waited

31:19

we needed to get a plan from every school

31:21

that they had a plan in place to get hot

31:24

meals to kids even if they weren't showing

31:27

up. And the second thing is more recent. We

31:29

just got a report that in New Jersey had

31:31

good news in bad news. Good news is what made progress

31:33

on homelessness, which is a

31:36

big challenge for us,

31:38

as it is for everyone. But on

31:40

the flip side of that, the pressure,

31:42

the amount of demand at our food banks

31:45

has gone up dramatically, and

31:48

so we just it's food insecurity

31:51

is inescapable, and I think it's going to require

31:54

whether you're a senator, a governor, one

31:56

of the world's renowned restauranteurs, it's

31:59

going to take all of us.

32:00

Could you ever have a policy

32:03

which gave which it

32:05

wasn't, means tested for every child university?

32:08

Yeah, if we can find the money. The

32:10

other day I was asked that very question. That's

32:12

something that we if we have the

32:14

money, that's something we want to do, probably takes

32:16

us a while to get there. We are

32:18

pursuing a similar,

32:21

different topic, but similar trajectory

32:23

for universal pre K, meaning

32:26

three year olds and four year olds to

32:28

have full day. We've made a lot

32:30

of progress, but we're on a journey. Same with

32:32

food and security. We made progress, but we have ways

32:35

to.

32:35

Go in universal nurse home visitation

32:37

now.

32:37

And universal nurse home visitation thanks

32:39

to this one.

32:40

That is, there's big

32:42

challenges in the United States with maternal deaths. We're

32:44

fifty six in the world for maternal mortality rates.

32:47

And one of the most dangerous

32:49

time is not when a child is

32:51

born, but after the child is born, because

32:54

moms are not seen for the first six weeks. And of

32:56

course children babies are seen frequently

33:00

and so and you never know when the mom is

33:02

seen. Is she wearing her Sunday

33:04

finest, did she take five trains

33:06

and a bus and walk two miles and

33:09

so? Anyway, so we just

33:11

launched two days ago universal

33:13

nurse home visitation, which means within two

33:15

weeks of delivering a baby and nurse goes into the home,

33:18

which means they are able to see is their

33:20

food insecurity? Is there are there

33:22

other resource needs that we can propornastic.

33:24

Violence and sadly on

33:26

the list.

33:28

You know, there's so much we could talk about

33:30

and carry and we'll do part two another time. But

33:32

in London, by the way Inn London, and

33:35

you were talk about food just you

33:38

know, as a way of communicating,

33:41

of expressing love as being something

33:43

delicious to eat, to share, to take

33:45

care of people. It's also comfort.

33:48

And so I always end every interview

33:51

with the question that if you think

33:53

of food as comfort, the food that

33:55

you might reach for, apart from butter,

33:59

you're never going to get that butter.

34:01

But what, Tommy,

34:03

would your spe I would

34:05

have to say if it's if it's not gonna be a sweet, then

34:07

it's probably cheese.

34:09

Cheese.

34:09

I love a specific cut or any depends

34:12

what's in my refrigerator.

34:13

Okay, Ruthie.

34:16

I would go, particularly in cold weather

34:19

stew, a nice beef stew

34:22

with vegetables. We had some the

34:24

other night we did, and it was really

34:26

on a cold winter night in particular.

34:29

That gives me a.

34:31

Can I tell you one other thing to entice

34:33

you back to New Jersey, so hopefully

34:36

we can get you back while Phil is still the governor, because

34:38

one thing we do with the Governor's Mansion is we

34:40

serve as many dishes

34:42

as possible that have Jersey sourced

34:45

food, and we then we then

34:47

put asterisks on the menu to say this is local.

34:49

This is this is from New Jersey and wines

34:51

and.

34:52

Only Jersey Wines, only Jersey Booze,

34:54

only Jersey Beer, and to the extent

34:56

we can only Jersey ingredients.

34:59

Well, if I started out by saying that you

35:01

know you're committed, that you're kind,

35:03

and that you're interested in the

35:05

people who live and work in

35:08

the state, I think that this conversation

35:10

has shown that. And also

35:13

if I say that I love you, you can see

35:15

why. Thank you, we love you. Thanks

35:18

Ruthy, thank you, thank

35:24

you for listening to Ruthie's Table for in

35:27

partnership with Montclair.

35:37

Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atami

35:39

Studios for iHeartRadio. It's

35:41

hosted by Ruthie Rogers and it's produced

35:43

by William Lensky. This episode

35:46

was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed

35:48

by Nigel Appleton. Our executive

35:50

producers are Faye Stewart and

35:52

Zad Rogers. Our production manager

35:55

is Caitlin Paramore, and our production coordinator

35:57

is Bella Selini. Thank you

35:59

to everyone at the River Cafe for your help

36:01

in making this episode.

36:03

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