0:00

You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in

0:02

partnership with Montclair. Around

0:06

forty years ago, when a Rogers

0:08

my stepson was twelve, he

0:11

asked of a school friend his best friend

0:13

could join us for lunch. I

0:16

know you're going to love him. And

0:18

three hours later we were in the company of

0:21

one of the greatest kids ever, cheeky,

0:23

funny, bright.

0:25

Hi, my name's Guy Richie. I

0:27

am a chef and that's my day

0:29

job, and my second job is a film director.

0:32

And here we are. We've been cooking outside

0:34

on the Gentleman's table, the Wild

0:36

table, a rather thick

0:40

realvi steak.

0:41

Now, when you ask Guy Richie to do a podcast,

0:44

you don't just get Guy Today.

0:46

He's been in the garden at the River Cafe with

0:48

the chefs, setting up his

0:50

wild kitchen to cook a ribby steak

0:53

for us all to try.

0:55

And we just bring us with you.

0:57

Yeah,

1:00

one does exactly

1:02

go.

1:02

Around to this

1:05

is great. It's

1:11

fabulous. Now if you want, you're gonna have the whole

1:13

thing like that. But I would

1:18

I would just let that nibble

1:21

away a bit at its center. Now, the next time it

1:23

comes off, I think you'll be done.

1:25

I've been in contact over the years with Guy

1:27

in and out, eating in his pub The Lord

1:29

of the Land, drinking the beer from his brewery,

1:31

the Gritchy Company, having him

1:33

and Jackie, his children and his friends

1:35

and his family in the River Cafe, and

1:38

most of all, watching his movies from

1:40

lock Stock to Smoking Barrels and

1:42

his most recent The Covenant with two

1:45

friends and actually guests of the podcast,

1:48

Jake Chill and All and Josh Bruger.

1:50

Now you've already got se on, but because it's such

1:52

a thick piece of me, right,

1:58

we got hack through that. You hacked

2:00

through it because I've got to get on with it.

2:04

Absolutely beautiful.

2:06

It's got to go. It's got to go. We

2:08

got the rest of it to go. Here

2:13

we go, he comes.

2:17

So, Guy, do you want to talk about before

2:19

we go into your movies and food and

2:21

food and life? Do you want to talk about grilling

2:23

a steak? What do you like about a

2:25

ribby?

2:26

I like the fat and

2:28

I like the crispiness of the fat. It seems to be the right

2:32

ratio of fat and meat for me. But

2:35

that's that's usually what I

2:37

eat is a ribbi five

2:39

or six days a week, and I'll play with other things.

2:41

But in the end, it's it's easy for

2:43

me to cook, and I don't really want anything

2:45

on it other than salt and recently pepper,

2:48

but I have a feeling pepper's a crush and

2:50

it won't last for very long and I'll just creep back

2:52

into salt.

2:54

And you and I like it the same way, which I

2:57

I hate going to a restaurant and telling

2:59

the way to how I like something cooked, and

3:01

so I rarely do that. But when I have a

3:03

steak, or if I have a piece of the only other thing

3:05

is salmon, is I like a really

3:08

dark crust and then a quite

3:10

medium rare inside rare.

3:12

Yeah, well I'm with you on that. To me, everything's

3:14

about the patina of the meat. So

3:17

and you can only really get that patina if you've got the

3:19

fat. That's I think you and I are probably

3:21

an agreement on this. I want the combination

3:25

of that fat just before it's

3:27

become completely incinerated, but

3:29

I want it to be crispy and then

3:31

I'm in heaven and it never gets never gets boring.

3:37

Okay, So going from the beginning,

3:39

at the beginning, we would talk about growing up

3:41

in the Richie House before you went to boarding school.

3:44

Well you at home was your your parents. Your father

3:46

was a friend of a friend of mine, John somerl and

3:49

they said he loved food and wine.

3:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, my father liked wine more

3:52

than you like food. But yes, he

3:55

was a good friend. And John Summer used to live on the same street,

3:57

so he was about five dolls now, but

4:00

they were yeah, he was a big foodie.

4:02

We were like the only middle class family and apart

4:04

from John in the streets. So when

4:06

we moved in, it was an old

4:09

fashioned in

4:12

theory. It wasn't a sort of Cottney community, but it

4:15

was an old fashioned English community

4:17

there. So this is in sixty

4:19

They bought that house in sixty in

4:23

Fulham and they were like foodies

4:26

and boozies then, which

4:28

is quite early doors and that house

4:30

then in sixty nine was eight

4:32

pounds.

4:33

There you go. So you grew up in the

4:35

house that loved food.

4:36

And then my mum was very a cook.

4:38

Where did she cook?

4:39

My favorite was watercress soup. Really

4:42

it was quite exotic, so

4:45

Raberic carriers idea.

4:47

But she was a very good cook. I used to like

4:49

baked eggs and watercrest

4:52

soup.

4:52

And would you sit down to dinner like most

4:55

nights as a fam who's in your family, your.

4:57

Brothers and one sister, a

5:00

sister and a.

5:01

Mother, and so would you sit

5:03

down to me with the kind of family

5:05

supper.

5:06

I heard something earlier on that

5:10

I'm not can't remember which generation we are, but

5:13

we are still the sort of the I suppose

5:15

maybe the last generation that lived more outdoors

5:17

than we did indoors. So I

5:19

knew all the other kids in the street, so

5:23

you were never indoors. You were always

5:25

out with your mates. And we were on bicycles.

5:28

I remember used to cycle to quite

5:30

far Afield and we were on biscles when we were

5:33

six.

5:34

So I went to local school.

5:36

Local, I went to thirteen school. I went thirteen

5:39

thirteen. Okay, yeah, local

5:41

school.

5:43

Or no school could cope with no educating.

5:46

Cool school could cope. And I sort

5:48

of picked up the reputation that it was because I was naughty,

5:50

and it wasn't because I was naughty. It was

5:53

it was just I

5:55

was remarkably slow in

5:58

understanding what they were trying to translate,

6:00

and I had no ability to translate it. So

6:03

yeah, very probiscuous for schools. And

6:06

I went to about five local schools and

6:08

then gradually, I mean even the one I

6:10

went to school with Abe that was which is subsequently

6:13

shut down. Most of the schools I went to subsequently

6:15

shut there because they were all learning disability

6:17

schools, and they did well.

6:19

They sort of fumbled around as best they could,

6:22

and I'm sort of grateful for their efforts. But there

6:24

was only one person I met that was more dyslexic

6:26

than me, and that was Abe.

6:29

I've been to my kids' schools, you know, there

6:32

was Abe or it was you know, my children,

6:35

And I remember saying the only I

6:37

don't care if they learned to read when they're eight or

6:40

six or ten or twelve or fourteen.

6:42

What you do never want your child to do

6:44

is to feel stupid, you know, because

6:46

I said, those are the people that come into the River Cafe,

6:48

and they was coming and they say,

6:51

I don't want to sit here. I don't want that, I don't want this,

6:53

And I almost want to say, did you have a hard time

6:55

in school? You know, because it's.

6:56

I'm going to challenge you lenge. I'm going to challenge

6:58

you that I from

7:01

the best roses, come from

7:03

the worst menure. So I

7:05

think a certain amount of adversity is

7:07

rather essential, and I don't think it did me much

7:10

harm being told. You

7:12

never told you were stupid, it was implicit. Well,

7:15

you were clear, it was clear that you couldn't follow

7:18

right, and you were clear that kids that weren't

7:22

that quick were following

7:24

quicker than you could follow. So you knew

7:28

there was an issue, but no

7:31

one was actually cruel enough to explicitly

7:33

say you're stupid. But you found

7:36

after you were on school ten that

7:39

there was an issue. And then you kept meeting

7:41

experts that would sort of have men

7:44

in white coats that would give you sort of blocks to play

7:46

with and boxes to tick.

7:49

And then it quickly, you

7:51

see their eyes eyebrows were raised by

7:53

the time you'd finished, and you could quickly

7:56

the juice that you were not firing

7:58

on the cylinders that they want you to fire. But

8:01

fair play to everyone. They never actually called me stupid.

8:03

It was just implicit. And then but

8:05

I would argue though, that that

8:08

gave me a sort of a myriad of skills

8:11

that otherwise

8:14

I would never have developed. And feeling

8:17

like you're an outside of some description,

8:19

and feeling diminished at some point in

8:21

the end, I just don't think that did me any harm?

8:24

You and A became and Richard, my

8:26

husband, became stronger because of it. But there

8:28

might be a lot of people around gave up,

8:30

you know, who didn't fight back. They

8:33

just made me. It's about

8:35

I agree with you about a lot of that. I mean, I agree

8:38

with self esteem. I used to think

8:40

self esteem was the most important thing. Now I think

8:42

maybe not. It was a paradox

8:45

that, Yeah, it's a paradix. Okay,

8:48

Well, going back then thirteen schools,

8:50

do you remember any of those thirteen

8:52

schools having good food?

8:54

Yeah, you'll be surprised what kind

8:57

of food I can enjoy? Yeah, tell me everything.

9:01

My mum wasn't fussy, and I've

9:03

never been fussy. The only thing I couldn't

9:06

eat was rhubarb, and

9:09

even that I can eat now,

9:11

and I was. I'm quite interested

9:14

and enjoy industrial quantities

9:16

of food that's not necessarily to consume, but

9:18

there's a sort of it takes on certain qualities

9:20

they used to do, like school, Lasanya, when

9:23

you're cooking for a few hundred kids, it takes on

9:25

complex characteristics that

9:27

are impossible to derive if

9:29

you're if you're using quality product. So,

9:33

yeah, I liked school food.

9:36

Out of thirteen schools, which one did you? Did you do

9:38

something like graduating from school or did you just

9:40

leave school?

9:41

It just left fifteen

9:45

and it was anticlimactic sort of.

9:47

I left and then they said, don't bother

9:49

coming back.

9:50

That was at Stanbridge.

9:51

That was at stanbridg Yeah.

9:52

Nice. Yeah. And did your parents

9:54

were they Were they worried

9:57

about you?

9:57

Yes? Yeah, yes, because

9:59

I I had no qualifications at all. I could barely spell

10:02

my name, but I was. I mean,

10:04

I was working by the time I was fifteen,

10:07

not far from here. Actually it some Peter Square in amismhere.

10:10

Yeah. I worked in the island records, which

10:12

I don't know if it's still there, but I worked

10:14

as a two boy in records.

10:16

Were you living at home? Did your mom still cook for

10:19

you?

10:19

No? I left

10:21

home early door. So I

10:24

was from fifteen onwards, I was

10:26

in and out.

10:26

And what were you changed? You remember? No?

10:30

There's the answer that no, because

10:33

then it was it was all work from fifteen

10:35

to now. It's really all

10:37

been work, although it has been sort of messy

10:40

periods along that way. I've been working pretty

10:42

much since I was fifteen.

10:44

We talked about your mother, but what about your father?

10:46

He was he more into wine? As you said? Did he

10:48

teach you about wine?

10:49

I didn't like why until I was forty forty?

10:52

How old are you now?

10:53

I am fifty four?

10:54

Okay? And what changed all that?

10:56

Lot?

10:56

What didn't you like about wine?

10:58

It just meant nothing to me. And

11:01

you could see the price disparity, and

11:04

that had no impact on me. I was what, you

11:06

know? I was happy on two pound fifty as

11:08

other people were on two hundred and fifty, and I couldn't

11:11

I did. The nuance was wasted on me. And

11:13

then at forty a light

11:15

bulb went off off.

11:18

Do you remember where you were?

11:20

You know, you think it's your friend Josh Berger had

11:22

something to do, and I think it was like a

11:24

weekend away somewhere

11:27

and someone brought out the big guns and

11:30

like on the third bottle where I was sort of

11:32

taking the mick, and then all of a sudden

11:34

something happened. And once it happened,

11:36

then I lost a

11:39

decade to enjoying

11:41

file mines. And then I

11:43

did the wine tours.

11:44

Where did you go?

11:46

Well, I'm a Bordeaux man that's recently recently

11:48

drifted into Burgundy. I'm

11:52

on terra firma with the

11:54

Bordeaux, So the classic

11:56

obvious ones, which it's

12:01

boring because they're cliches, but Latour

12:03

will be my go to if

12:05

I was going to go for an

12:07

event of some description. So

12:11

I'll go over all the obvious, the Moutons,

12:15

Lafitte, Margo,

12:19

Lynch Bash, you know, all the well known ones and

12:21

what about it, super

12:23

Tuscans, Manisetto and

12:25

so on.

12:26

But do you like them? Do I do?

12:28

Do you have a wine cellar?

12:29

Then I do?

12:31

And you go? Do you go down and say that tonight

12:33

we're going to have this?

12:35

Yeah? I mean I'm essentially French,

12:37

right, So I

12:39

am prejudiced towards the French in

12:42

the sense that I think

12:45

both food wise and wine

12:47

wise, they're the layers

12:49

of sophistication that the French developed over

12:52

however long. I

12:54

my first love of real food was

12:57

French, and I was tremendous

13:00

impressed by the layering.

13:03

You call layering, you mean the way that.

13:06

I felt as though there was every nuance

13:08

was investigated. There was a place on Pimlico

13:11

Road that was run by those brothers. Yeah,

13:13

it was next to the Blipot.

13:14

Yeah, but that's when I was There.

13:17

Was a little supermarket. There was next door a little

13:19

shop and a little French shop, not

13:21

much bigger than this room. And

13:24

when I was a van driver, I used

13:26

to go in there and it

13:28

was absurdly expensive, but

13:31

the quality was mind blowing.

13:34

You've run a career off the quality of

13:36

your ingredients, though, Avenue.

13:39

I would say that about French food and Italian food.

13:41

You know that I saw nothing I love more

13:43

than a piece of fish, both blanc and

13:45

spinach on the bottom, as you say, almost layering

13:48

the way. But there's something also when you

13:50

go to Italy and then you have a

13:52

piece of sea bass and nothing,

13:54

you know, you just get this bass and maybe, if

13:56

you're lucky, a bit of salsa earlier lemon. And

13:59

so if you're going to have only two ingredients,

14:01

a lemon and a sea bass, or sea

14:03

bass and a bit of wilderegona, the wild diregona

14:06

has to be wild and the sea bass has

14:08

to be incredibly fit, you know, fresh, because there's

14:10

no masking of it. You're not looking at the

14:12

hollandais or the brenets or the other

14:14

stuff. You know. So I think we are. The

14:16

River Cafe definitely is very ingredient

14:19

based. Yeah, we are.

14:21

I went fishing for sea bass this week, actually as

14:24

you were Portland anyway.

14:26

So I caught four very

14:28

healthy baths we're actually called fourteen. We

14:30

returned ten of them. Wet

14:32

fishing with my ten year old is obsessed and

14:36

English bass.

14:38

We get it is we

14:40

get all our fish off the coast. We

14:42

don't bring any two now or anything in. We

14:47

once had one of my was we had

14:50

the we you know, we call it the end of

14:52

service, so at eleven o'clock at night,

14:54

we know how much bass we've sold, how much

14:56

you know, turbot we've sold, and we know that

14:58

the next day we're going to change to the menu. So we never

15:01

have the menu. It just depends what

15:03

there is in the fridge and what there is in the sea. And

15:05

then we got a call from the boat and he said,

15:07

I'm I've just reeled in a

15:09

turbot and it's so big that either

15:12

the river cafe takes it or we put

15:14

it back in the sea. What do you want?

15:16

And we took it? How big was it?

15:18

I can't remember, maybe I having no eight

15:21

kill.

15:23

And I came back. I came past

15:25

here one evening with Josh and I

15:28

had your turbot.

15:29

Yea, did

15:31

you like it?

15:31

Yeah?

15:33

We do it on the trunch, so you have this thick

15:35

bone and then you have the thick turbot, and so we

15:37

put you know, it depends what the chef wants to do.

15:40

I think last night we did it with zucchini and zucchini

15:42

flowers, and today we might do with capers

15:44

and you know, black

15:46

olives.

15:47

It was a real winner. It was a real winner. Would you buy

15:50

your nature go sea vass or turbot?

15:53

Oh? It depends probably

15:56

pass. I love pass. But if

15:58

I have the turbot in the wood oven, it's it's a very rich

16:00

fish. It's

16:03

I love. Yeah. The thing about

16:06

fish for me is I love it on the bone. You

16:08

know. I always think I know that you

16:10

don't, you know, and so it's really nice to have a

16:12

whole agreed. So what happened

16:14

to the fish that you reeled in? Where are those best?

16:17

Now? I et them, all of them?

16:18

Yeah, yeah, my son's very insistent on eating

16:20

them as quickly as possible. You've got to wait. We find

16:22

it. We have to wait twenty four hours because you get over the rigging

16:25

mortis. Yeah. The idea that you can eat fish

16:27

that she doesn't work.

16:29

I know, I know they say just that her,

16:31

but it's the same thing, even dover sold it. I

16:33

mean, so and I

16:35

kind of what you would think, but the idea.

16:38

So last forever too. I'll

16:40

show you. She passed me that. I'll

16:42

show you this because my son is now obsessed

16:44

with fishing, and that means I'm now get

16:48

all well, this is all on the shore.

16:50

Oh, I see you're not on a boat's.

16:52

So I don't have

16:54

the picture of the bass, but I'll tell you. Look at

16:56

the size of this brown trout that you caught.

16:59

Wow, Wow, look at that.

17:02

Wow is amazing.

17:05

I mean, that's how much of that thing? Six

17:07

and a half pounds. But that will

17:09

lie. That will feed you know you don't feed

17:12

feed ten. But most of

17:14

the photographs they are fish.

17:16

That's rafa.

17:19

That's great. Did

17:30

you know The River Cafe has a shop. It's

17:32

full of our favorite foods and designs.

17:35

We have cookbooks, linen, napkins, kitchen

17:37

were toad bags with our signatures,

17:39

glasses from Venice, chocolates from

17:42

Turin. You can find us right next

17:44

door to the River Cafe in London or

17:46

online at shop Therivercafe

17:48

dot co dot UK.

17:54

I'm always in the kitchen. You always in the h

17:56

Well, actually I'm not in the kitchen. I mean I'm outside

17:59

in the kitchen, but the internal

18:01

kitchen is. I was just explaining to your chefs.

18:04

I've become increasingly frustrated with because

18:06

I've got quite nice knives, and people have bought me

18:09

good knives, and subsequently no one

18:11

wants to sharpen them because they're frighting of sharpening and they

18:13

don't want to mess them up. And what I quite

18:15

like is a cheap knife with a brutal

18:18

sharpener, and I want it

18:20

accessible. So I'll

18:23

you buy a Knight good knife for a fine knife

18:25

for twelve quid, sharpen every

18:29

couple. But I have a brutal

18:31

sharp what is it? I buy my sharpness

18:34

for two quid two and a half euros and

18:36

I drag them through that nasty

18:39

thing and I

18:41

do that that's too posh. I find that

18:43

you do the brutal one and it

18:46

shaves off quite

18:49

a capacious amount of steel,

18:52

and your knife done off but a

18:54

year, and it costs twelve quid.

18:55

We had, we had, I remember, we used to have

18:57

somebody just to come and sharpen the knives. We

19:01

had bel sized grove when it was growing up.

19:03

So that must have been when I first came to London. Can

19:05

you imagine this American girl. I didn't know what

19:07

anything was and they delivered

19:09

bottles of milk and you

19:12

didn't lock your door and they and the man came to

19:14

sharpen the knives and sell onions. They used to sell

19:16

onions like on the back of their bicycle. This

19:18

must have been in the seventies.

19:19

Well, yeah, it was the seventies usual to get We used to have the rag

19:21

and bone man, any old iron they

19:23

used to see as they were. By then you had the

19:25

knife man.

19:26

The knife man. I definitely remember by

19:28

the.

19:28

Way it's consist of the knife man.

19:30

Actually, I know why do we still and I remember to bring back knife

19:32

many knife.

19:33

Man worked and

19:35

you had the milk.

19:38

The milk definitely you didn't have

19:40

that like creamy stuff at the top.

19:42

You could have like you used to sell everything.

19:44

Yeah, you used to have everything on there and then he just went

19:46

from selling everything to not existing.

19:48

Yeah. So when we're going

19:51

to talk about work and food, so when

19:53

you go to is a set in Spain

19:55

with you and Jake and Josh and all

19:57

your people, do you worry about

19:59

what they're eating?

20:00

Not really, No, no, because everyone's If

20:02

no one complains, then I don't

20:04

stick my nose into it, And they don't really complain, so

20:07

they're sort of happy. You'll find out at some point

20:09

or another of the caterers aren't winning, but recently

20:12

doesn't need to be too much complaints. I barbecue

20:15

every day. I've got I've got a sort

20:17

of old wooden trailer that we reside

20:20

in and where we have communal meals. I

20:23

play mother and I usually do

20:25

a We've got a stove in there, and I

20:27

cook in there, and we'll cook in a very

20:29

similar fashion to just how we cooking there. I'll donok abbit,

20:31

I'll put it in, take slices off the side,

20:34

put it back in again, and we'll

20:36

do that five days a week.

20:37

Yeah, you just invite various people.

20:39

There's usually usually ten people

20:41

in there.

20:42

Yeah. Jake's a good eater, isn't he.

20:44

Yeah?

20:44

He really cares.

20:46

About and carries no weight, carries

20:48

no weight, doesn't drink much, so he's in good

20:50

nick. He really cares, but he cares about his

20:52

food, and he rather sadly sends me pictures

20:55

and I send him pictures of that.

20:56

But what about other actors you've worked with.

20:59

You yet to come acros someone that's not interested in Almost

21:02

no one I know is not interested in food.

21:05

But in order sometimes you have to switch off and

21:07

see, food is fuel, and as soon as food is

21:09

fuel, you tend to lose weight.

21:11

And when you go to is a set like

21:13

you were in Spain for the Covertant being

21:15

Afghanistan, do you think about

21:18

where you're going and the food they're having and

21:20

what that will be like or do you think wherever you are

21:22

you're kind of eating what.

21:24

You Yeah, I mean, I'll go local.

21:26

We spent we spent quite a lot of time

21:28

last two movies I've done, or Outside

21:31

of the Covenant, which is in Spain, we did in Turkey.

21:34

I remember that.

21:35

What was that? I like Turkey?

21:36

What did you like it?

21:38

I like the Turks And I

21:40

can't believe that's the country as large

21:42

as that that people

21:45

don't talk about much. And

21:48

we were just very impressed with it. We love

21:50

the people and we love the food.

21:52

And I was in this temple three

21:54

weeks ago and I hadn't been there before,

21:56

and I was blown away for

21:59

us sitting there and then the

22:01

food we went to all these different restaurants,

22:03

want some on the pass, for some in the

22:05

little town, some in the I

22:07

thought it was a fantastic food culture.

22:10

It is, but everything in that part

22:12

of the world is do you think I do?

22:15

I mean, it's you're still sort of you. You're

22:18

tethered to the med So I

22:20

don't know. If you've done tel Aviv, you've done tele Aviv. The

22:23

food culture in Israel is insane.

22:25

We spent quite a lot of time in the Middle East. We

22:28

like the Middle We

22:31

got mates in Bahrain, so we go over

22:33

a year for the race, a

22:35

little bit in Saudi, quite a lot

22:37

in Israel and.

22:39

The food wise, do you have one place that

22:41

you're actually in the Middle Eastern food?

22:43

Well, it's Israel's

22:45

sort of nicking it at the moment. But then Dubai.

22:47

I don't know if you spend any time by the

22:50

Dubai, I mean, it's it's

22:52

a cliche, and it is for a reason,

22:55

because it's pretty brilliant.

22:57

A lot of of our you know, I've been asked top

23:00

restaurant in Park. I think there must be. I think there's

23:02

no. But there are quite a lot of Western restaurants

23:04

here.

23:04

I've been with lots of people that have been

23:07

talking to you about opening places

23:09

over the years, and

23:12

you never seen anywhere else.

23:13

So I went to look at the site the other day with our

23:17

friend who does all the architecture for us, you

23:19

know, and he said, I was sitting in this place

23:21

near Grovena Square and I heard this guy going

23:23

and with you, you know, look at the space. You can have

23:25

your kitchen here, and you could do this, and you could do that.

23:27

And he said, I want to say, listen, you

23:30

know she's not going to do it,

23:33

but that's not true. I go, I would do it.

23:35

I don't know, it's interesting.

23:37

I think we just haven't found the right site.

23:39

You spent spent some time.

23:41

Yeah, we went to La But the fact

23:43

is that it's it's

23:45

a long answer to a short question. Why

23:47

don't I do it? I think I still would do it.

23:49

We could just do another restaurant in London. We don't

23:51

have to go abroad.

23:52

Although I quite you know, what will be quite interesting

23:55

is it would break or break a cliche.

23:58

You. I know you're not gonna go to Dubai, which

24:00

I would quite like you to do, just

24:03

because it's unpredictable, and I

24:05

think it's important to be unpredictable, and

24:07

I think it's important to prove yourself wrong. I'm

24:10

constantly I'm constantly

24:13

doing things which against

24:15

my better judgment, I

24:18

do because I have to or

24:20

unforced into a corner or whatever. And then subsequently

24:23

I'm very grateful that I did and thought, wold

24:25

on, I probably should have started doing this a long

24:27

time ago. Just do things that

24:30

are really that's not on

24:32

your tuitive. It's counter intuitive,

24:34

it's not on your.

24:36

It's also somebody said they were

24:38

suggesting I, you know, I had this idea for

24:40

doing sort of fast food kind of

24:42

thing, and then he said, you know, but

24:44

I said that I don't think I want to do it because it could fail.

24:47

And they said, really, everybody's failing

24:49

these days. This is what you do in silicon value.

24:51

You start a startup, you start a business,

24:53

and it fails. It's not a big deal.

24:55

You know.

24:55

I always think failure is like a big deal, but

24:57

apparently it's not the biggest.

24:59

It's not what it was. Failures not well,

25:01

this is the upside.

25:02

It's the new success.

25:04

Well, and people don't seem to notice like they

25:06

used to. Yeah, yeah,

25:08

you know, and subsequently go, oh, I mean that

25:10

didn't work very well. But guess what no one's talking

25:12

about.

25:13

You had a movie that failed.

25:14

Now, oh yeah, I've had movies that have not

25:16

works. Let's put it. Let's put it

25:18

that way. And it's

25:22

not the same anymore. And

25:25

you go. Because the thing is, it's

25:28

hard to calibrate success. It used to be

25:30

very easy, used to open up on a by

25:32

on a Thursday evening that used to know whether

25:34

you're it's going to work right, within

25:36

two or three hours, they can pretty much predict

25:39

what your box office will be at the end of the weekend. And

25:41

you're it's a roulette wheel,

25:44

right, so you you know, you're you're

25:46

you're playing with hundreds of millions of dollars and

25:50

you let that bead go around

25:53

the roulette table and you're waiting

25:55

for that phone call on a Thursday night and

25:58

is it going to be and

26:00

you'll be able to predict whether your movie is more

26:02

or less going to make a billion dollars or

26:04

it's going to make fifty million dollars or it's going to make

26:06

less. Right now, that's

26:09

a big bad right, And I'm

26:11

not sure what other what other

26:13

trades do that. It's

26:15

that bigger swing, right, and

26:18

and you find that all out in two three

26:21

hours fortunately those

26:23

days and.

26:23

At lasts, so they can tell that.

26:25

So well, Now it's complicated because now.

26:28

Is a movie that you find, you know, do you

26:30

have one or does it?

26:31

How were going to calibrate success?

26:33

Yeah, that's what I'm going to say, the one that you like.

26:35

No, I like all of them

26:37

equally, but you

26:39

know it's.

26:40

It doesn't This is something question saying

26:43

which is your favorite?

26:43

It is?

26:44

Will always say to me, you know, what do you like best

26:46

to cook? Or what do you like the wind? And you

26:48

know it depends on the day, the weather.

26:51

I forget about my work.

26:52

Yeah. Richard uced to say, you know that

26:54

when you finished the building, it was kind of done,

26:57

and you're you know, you're now it's done and it's

26:59

there and.

27:00

You and then you kind

27:02

of oddly discover you rediscover your

27:04

films because you go to someone's house to the watching it and

27:06

you sit down and halfway through and then you

27:08

sort of drift in and drift out your hold on

27:11

and it feels oddly reminiscent. But

27:14

you can't remember going through the process, although

27:18

you were so intimate with the process. You's

27:20

just forgotten and you go through the process, and I

27:22

just become the viewer, and I'm sitting

27:24

there and go, oh, that's fun or that's not

27:26

fun, And why did he make that decision? Why didn't I?

27:28

And I'm completely surprised. I completely forget the

27:30

plot although I've written them all, and

27:33

I become a complete voyeur in the equation.

27:35

Yeah, there's a lot. Si Krystal, the artist

27:38

did a fence through southern

27:40

California. He wanted to get the people

27:43

of the town to permit it, and they didn't

27:45

want to do it because they didn't think

27:47

it was art because it was temporary, you know, Crystal.

27:50

Everything he did just lasted a little while, whether

27:53

it was a fence or whether it was sheets

27:55

or umbrellas in Central Park. And so the

27:57

argument was, it's not art because it's temporary.

27:59

And in fact, I realized that, you know, I make

28:01

a cake and that's temporary, or I grill

28:04

a piece of beef for this temporary, isn't it. You

28:06

just get eaten right away. Your movies last forever,

28:08

buildings last forever, but food sort

28:10

of you eat it and then you're criticized for

28:12

it's either well to cooked or undercooked.

28:15

I'm a big fan of things that arephemeral. I

28:17

spent a lot of time thinking about what is creativity

28:20

and what is art, and it

28:22

being ephemeral is neither here nor there. Art

28:25

seems about the expression

28:27

of that which is concealed

28:30

finds an interesting

28:32

conduit to become revealed.

28:35

It's kind of irrelevant what the format

28:38

is as long as you can see

28:40

that that which is revealed is secondary

28:43

and subservience to that which is concealed.

28:46

You know, the number of the conversation,

28:49

or the numb of any interesting conversation is just

28:51

is understanding essence and concealed

28:54

essence and the unseen engine that drives

28:56

creativity and all the different

28:59

conduits and man festations of creativity.

29:01

I find that in itself the

29:04

most inspiring of conversations.

29:13

If you like listening to Ruthie's Table

29:15

for would you please make sure

29:18

to rate and review the podcast

29:20

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

29:23

Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever

29:25

you get your podcasts. Thank

29:27

you. So,

29:39

when you're working, some of you wake up in

29:41

the morning and what do you have for breakfast. I'm

29:43

not a breakfast man, so you're not a breakfast man at

29:46

a lunchment. What do you okay?

29:47

So try and I've lost a stone,

29:49

which I'll quite smug about. I've done quite

29:51

well in the last six weeks.

29:54

I'm that drug.

29:55

You No, I'm not in the drug, so what's

29:57

your No, it's because I late. So

30:00

I'll have lunch. I'll get a bit pinch here,

30:02

quite like coffee. So I'll go on

30:05

ice Americanos at about

30:07

one and then I'll

30:10

have a little nibble of something and

30:13

then they do these

30:15

like sort of healthy bars, which they they

30:18

do on the front. It's like dates, cashew

30:20

nuts and something else. But anyway,

30:22

they've got just enough naughtiness

30:24

in them to keep you entertained, but

30:27

not enough to get you in trouble. So

30:29

I'll get and there are a couple of hundred canaries, so they keep me

30:31

ticking over. I mean, I'm on contracting

30:33

mode at the moment rather than expanding

30:35

mode. Right. I spent most of my life expanding,

30:38

So every now and then when I'm in contraction, I'm trying.

30:40

And this is the first bed I've had in a while. Actually,

30:42

you've corrupted me.

30:43

There is little round hill,

30:45

so we're going to be in expanding.

30:47

Now, well, I'm going to

30:49

be quite good at this, but I've got quite a lunch coming

30:51

up tomorrow's sow I can tell someone's birthday tomorrows

30:53

I can tell I might as well warm yeah

30:58

so, but yeah, so I eat late, that's

31:00

right.

31:00

You know in Mexico we used to when

31:03

I lived in Mexico City when Richard was

31:05

not well. The ideas that Mexicans

31:07

have a good breakfast at about eleven

31:10

and then ten.

31:13

Eleven's good. I think eleven's good.

31:14

Then they eat lunch about

31:17

five four, but you

31:19

have like a two hour lunch and then that's

31:21

it.

31:22

On there.

31:23

I love that.

31:24

Eleven o'clocks for me is quite a good time. And

31:26

you have a little something just to keep you going.

31:29

And then if you can press on through and you get a bit

31:31

pinched, and then three

31:35

four five if you get stuck

31:37

in, and then that's your life.

31:38

You've lost weight. That's since

31:41

when actually.

31:43

I've rather proudly got the photograph on there,

31:45

so about six weeks.

31:46

That's good.

31:47

Yeah. And by the way, struggling, it's

31:49

not being a struggle.

31:51

And I with your kids, do

31:53

you have would you sit down for dinner with

31:55

your kids? So yeah, they're all quite quite

31:58

early with you.

31:59

Yeah. Yeah, and you're watching out

32:01

eating the kids, as everyone knows, because you soon

32:03

fall into a bowl of spaghetti and it's hard

32:05

to get out of it, and they fish

32:07

fingers. You forget how good they are

32:09

until I mean, that's a problem with the kids food. Kids food

32:11

is good, and you just

32:13

don't want to go near the gravitational pull of kids

32:16

food because once you do, it's hard to get out of it.

32:18

So we try not sit with the kids for

32:21

that reason, and then I'll

32:23

end up eating their food.

32:25

Yeah, of course you do. And when both they're

32:27

going back. Because when I thought when you were in Spain

32:29

you did did you eat cookies?

32:31

We were very good to begin with and

32:35

then yeah, we were on about

32:37

a thousand calories and we were very good. And then

32:39

Josh took me to a Spanish gaff where

32:42

we fell off a cliff and we

32:46

spectacular.

32:47

What did you have? Do you remember?

32:49

I actual forgot the pictures. I'm one of those people

32:51

that rather sadly takes pictures of interesting meals.

32:55

Then was just in where you're making the movie?

32:57

It was it was like hole in the wall.

33:01

Was what city were you're near you were near.

33:03

We were near Alicante, now

33:06

I'm sure. Anyway, whatever, then

33:08

we fell off a cliff because then we ended up

33:11

in the Spanish wine world,

33:13

and I remember sobbing by the

33:15

time we came to the second meal because

33:18

of the impact

33:21

of not having drunk or eaten too

33:23

much in six weeks. I think we're

33:25

being very good girls. And then that was

33:27

it, and then we were very naughty

33:30

for the remainder of the for

33:32

the shoot everything I'd lost in the first half

33:35

and then quickly found

33:38

for the remainder. But

33:40

it was just brilliant. And I'm perfectly happy

33:43

to go up and down in.

33:44

Wait, yeah you are, Yeah, I

33:46

can't see you say, contract

33:48

and expand and.

33:49

I'm happy with that. My biggest challenge in

33:51

life is not eating too much,

33:54

and I will become I will expand

33:57

to the point of danger if

33:59

I let my nature

34:03

loose. So really it's

34:05

the battle that I suppose everyone has.

34:08

You've done very well to remain the whippet

34:10

that you.

34:10

Oh I am not kidding, No, you're a whippit.

34:14

Now, how hard is it for everyone? I'm

34:16

shocked that anyone north of forty

34:19

is not four hundred pounds because

34:21

the amount of resistance that you need,

34:24

a restriction you need in order not to

34:27

endlessly expand, is really kind

34:29

of admirable.

34:30

And it's so delicious, isn't it.

34:32

So it's such a pleasure, it's such a pleasure.

34:34

It's a dilemma. It's a dilemma that

34:36

we all face it two or three times

34:38

a day, and everyone does so in

34:40

proportion to the blessing, as they say, is in

34:42

proportion to the curse. So food

34:45

is that thing, right, So as much

34:47

pleasure it gives you is as much trouble

34:50

as it can give you. And so I

34:52

live in this world of desperately trying to

34:54

create and sometimes I win and sometimes

34:56

I lose, trying to find balance with food and

34:59

booz.

35:00

Actually, also when you hold

35:02

back on food, have you been to when you know

35:04

that? And I know that because I've had it, is

35:06

that when you sort of sit down and then you know I'm

35:08

not going to have you know, something fattening

35:11

or something too much or you know, sugar, you

35:13

kind of hold back in every way.

35:15

Do you think you do subsequently

35:17

I can't like it. Subsequently at the time I

35:20

don't, and then subsequently, yeah, I

35:22

think.

35:23

When we talk about food, and this is always

35:26

you know, my last question, is

35:29

there food that you would turn to for comfort?

35:32

Comfort food? It will be either

35:35

marmite on toast.

35:37

And I'm actually quite snotty about my toast.

35:40

So I do like a good sowdough.

35:42

Do you have butter or just moremoy, but.

35:46

Also quite like posh buttter too. I love I

35:48

like posh bread and posh butter. That's anything

35:54

that the closer

35:56

it came from a cow, the poshare it is, as

35:58

far as I'm concerned. And I went to place

36:00

called the New in Somerset the other day.

36:02

Do you know I haven't been there, but well, anyway.

36:04

Did They did a sour though

36:06

there and a big wedge

36:09

of local butter, and it's just no point

36:11

in anything else. So it will probably

36:13

be I do like marmie. I do like

36:16

marmalade. By the way, I can talk

36:18

about marmalade for sometime now. I'm

36:20

not going to fall down into the that's

36:23

episode two. So although

36:25

my nature is not bread driven,

36:28

arm I

36:30

when I do taste good bread and good

36:33

butter hard to trumpet and

36:35

like anchovies on toast to anchovies

36:38

on toast. But actually, if you get enough of the olive

36:41

oil in the anchovies. Then I don't find I don't

36:43

need the butter.

36:43

But is really nice with anchivies. You know even Italians

36:46

have butter and anchovies. Is there something

36:48

about assalted.

36:49

An Yeah, you do a lot of anchovies.

36:51

You're very well, you're big on anchovies. But

36:54

hold on, I'm feeling as though, and then I

36:56

do they're

36:59

all going to be It's it's okay.

37:00

Bread. Bread is comforting.

37:03

The question was about what's comforting, so

37:06

yeah, so it will they're all bread

37:08

related. I do like

37:10

pigeon, I know. Yeah, yeah, I love pigeon.

37:14

I'm giving you lots of answers.

37:16

So i'll we like it. This is well, there's a difference between

37:18

liking and something you might turn

37:20

to when you really thought, you know.

37:23

What, where'd your cheddar?

37:24

Where did you cheed?

37:26

Branson pickle?

37:27

Okay?

37:27

Own bread? Yeah, yeah, big

37:29

on that.

37:30

So we've had comfort, we've had creativity,

37:34

we've had and we've had a great

37:36

piece of meat, didn't we That was a ribby

37:38

to remember? That was delicious. So yeah,

37:40

there's not very many people that you interview

37:42

who bring their own who bring their own

37:44

grills. So we have a lot more to do, more

37:47

talking, more cooking, more

37:49

eating together.

37:50

Yeah fabulous.

37:51

That was the little boy that I met when he was

37:53

twelve years old. You've come a long way.

37:56

Thank you, thank you,

38:01

thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table

38:03

four in partnership with Montclair.

38:15

Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atamei

38:17

Studios for iHeartRadio. It's

38:19

hosted by Ruthie Rogers and it's produced

38:22

by William Lensky. This episode

38:24

was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed

38:26

by Nigel Appleton.

38:28

Our executive producers are Fay Stewart

38:31

and Zad Rogers.

38:32

Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore,

38:34

and our production coordinator is Bella Selini.

38:37

This episode had additional contributions

38:39

by Sean Wynn Owen. Thank

38:42

you to everyone at The River Cafe for your help

38:44

in making this episode.