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a-n-g-i.com. Thanks

1:01

for calling Toyota! This is Jan Jan. My

1:03

kids are really excited about Spring Break so

1:05

I'm looking for a new Toyota to help

1:07

make an amazing Now until April first is

1:09

a great time for a new Toyota. Imagine

1:12

you and the kids in tundra on your

1:14

way to the lake. Ticket speak English or

1:16

even taking a raffle. Wars you? an animal

1:18

sanctuary to pick goats. Things.

1:21

Like your kids aren't the only ones excited about

1:23

Spring Break. Ready set! Go get your

1:25

Toyota today Toyoda! Let's go places! The

1:27

room between Mayberry so you're participating Toyota dealer for

1:30

details. Greetings

1:33

and salutations.

1:36

Welcome back

1:40

to Sacred

1:49

Symbols, a PlayStation podcast. This is episode number 297. Wow,

1:52

pretty crazy. My name is Colin

1:56

Moriarty. I'm joined as always by my son, Chris Reagan. Chris, good

1:59

to see you. Pick up the acoustic guitar and play us a

2:01

little ditty that makes us

2:03

feel something. Certainly

2:06

not. No, certainly never. Play us a little ditty.

2:08

Play us a little ditty. It's like Wonderwall or

2:10

something. I hated

2:12

playing guitar because he would be like play Wonderwall.

2:16

Wonderwall. I don't like...

2:20

Honestly I don't even think I've ever sat down and

2:22

listened to Oasis willingly.

2:24

Interesting. Actually. I don't

2:26

think I know any other Oasis songs

2:29

at all actually. You would probably know

2:31

Champagne Supernova. Oh

2:33

yeah, okay. If you look back in anger you would

2:35

probably know. I know that name. I know the name don't

2:38

look back in anger. I don't know. Don't

2:40

look back in anger. I've

2:42

never heard it actually. That doesn't sound

2:44

even remotely familiar to me. No, I didn't

2:46

do a very good job of it either. That Oasis

2:49

record, What's the Story Morning Glory, that was like everywhere

2:52

when I was in middle school. Everyone fucking loved

2:54

that record. And yeah,

2:56

Champagne Supernova is a pretty dope song. Sad.

3:00

Wonderwall, I can... They really overplayed it. The great

3:02

thing is, you probably actually know this Chris, is that

3:04

the brothers and Oasis fucking hate each other. And

3:07

that's the coolest part about it is that they hate each

3:09

other. They've gotten into fights on

3:11

stage and crazy shit

3:13

and that's the funniest part. Liam and Noel?

3:15

Right? Yeah, noel or something. Yeah,

3:18

that's the curse of having... When you bring Wonderwall into the

3:20

world, that's what you're cursed with in response to.

3:23

Right. By the universe. It's

3:25

a relationship with your brother that you cannot... the person closest

3:27

to you is the

3:35

person you hate the most. You're

3:37

my Wonderwall. And

3:42

you have to say wall like wow. Wow.

3:44

Fuck off. Dustin

3:49

Fuhrman, executive producer wearing his Akira shirt. Akira!

3:53

Akira. Good to see you. Leave

3:55

me alone. Leave me alone, dude. So good. I'm

3:58

glad that became a meme recently. has a

4:00

watch care. It's top tier, 10 out

4:02

of 10. If you love animation, even the slightest, you

4:04

gotta watch it. But I'm doing all right

4:06

today. I feel slightly... So

4:09

you may notice my hair. I realized the

4:11

last few days, it's too long to style

4:13

anymore. So I desperately need a haircut. A

4:16

little boy. Yeah, it's a

4:18

little boy vibes and that's okay.

4:20

But you know, getting a

4:22

haircut as a whole to do, I will do it. But

4:25

Chris, you know, Colin asked you

4:27

to play something and you immediately

4:29

said no. And it reminds me, there's often

4:31

like two types of guitar people. There's the

4:34

people that make it fully their

4:36

identity. They're like sitting out by the

4:38

lockers playing hoping that some girl notices

4:40

them. And then there's the people

4:43

that are almost like you don't

4:45

even know they play guitar, but they're actually awesome

4:47

at it in secret. Usually the

4:50

secret guitar players are the best and

4:52

the public ones are not very good.

4:54

Not always. Not

4:56

in my case, I think. I don't think I'm a

4:59

particularly amazing guitarist. But like I do think like, I

5:01

don't know, I was the only person in

5:03

my close group of friends who

5:06

played guitar. And we grew up in

5:08

like the upstate New York. So we would have

5:10

these bonfires and be like, bring your guitar, dude. I'd

5:12

be like, I really don't want to. I do this

5:15

by myself, like almost

5:18

on purpose. And

5:20

so I would do it. They

5:22

would like bully me into doing it basically. And

5:25

it was horrible. Like it was

5:27

it was fine. Looking back on it, but in the moment,

5:29

it was just like, oh my god, I don't want I

5:31

don't want this to be the perception because I don't want

5:34

this. There's only

5:36

one thing worse than the notorious

5:39

guitar guy. It's one

5:41

step further is the the ukulele guy.

5:43

Don't get me wrong, ukulele a fine instrument.

5:46

I love hearing it on songs. But so

5:49

worried, you know, when you see the guy

5:51

running around ukulele walk immediately in the other

5:53

direction as far as fast as you can.

5:55

Really? Oh, it's a ukulele. I wonder what

5:57

kind of oh, Hawaii music. Wow.

6:01

We're gonna fucking luau. I've

6:05

known both kinds of guitar players. Ramon is the best

6:07

guitar player I've ever... Who does our music is

6:11

the best guitar player I've ever known by far. Just an

6:13

absolute natural. And in college, he was a little bit more

6:15

alike. I remember going to a party specifically with him and

6:18

him getting really upset that there was a guy playing guitar

6:20

and how bad he was. Ended up getting

6:22

into like some argument with this dude about it. He's

6:25

not like that anymore. I don't play any... I play

6:27

guitar and bass like okay, but

6:29

I'm a drummer as everyone knows and that's not

6:31

an instrument you just break out. No.

6:35

You gotta get the hand drum, the djembe. The

6:37

djembe, yeah. Play that on campus. You just don't

6:40

break out the drums. You just don't... Everyone

6:42

in the neighborhood knows you play. You

6:44

have to do it at like certain times.

6:47

Now is not the time. But I'm

6:49

a pretty good rock drummer I think. Yeah.

6:52

I don't play any of the crazy nonsense that's

6:55

out there. I was making fun of double bass

6:57

pedal. How often do you play? Will

7:00

you play like every day? Yeah,

7:02

pretty much every day. That's

7:04

more than I do guitar. I go

7:06

through periods where I play guitar every day for like

7:08

sometimes for like a couple hours

7:11

and then I go through periods of months where

7:13

I don't touch it at all. That's

7:18

been my experience. I think

7:20

I said this before. I have a set list on my... This

7:23

is actually kind of a bummer because I wish I could...

7:26

So on Spotify, I have this playlist

7:28

and I just add drums songs to it. Songs that I

7:30

want to play drums to. And

7:33

because I play them so much, these songs,

7:35

they end up at the top of my

7:37

Spotify yearly playlist and I'm like, damn, I

7:39

wish I could isolate this playlist and say

7:41

like, don't count this playlist because my

7:44

most played songs are definitely not these songs. It's just

7:46

that I'm playing them over and over again on drums.

7:48

But let's see. I have quite a few songs on

7:50

here. I don't see anything on here that you would like, that

7:52

you would know. A lot

7:54

of Breaking Benjamin's first record on

7:56

this list. That album set, that

7:59

album... I fucking... love that record.

8:01

Saturant? Yeah, so good. Oh

8:03

my god dude. That album came out

8:05

when I was a senior in high

8:08

school and it was Polyamorous was the

8:10

first song on the single. Oh

8:12

I loved that. I play a lot of Foo Fighters. Especially

8:15

the first three records or so. A

8:18

lot of Alice and Chains. I like

8:20

playing them. I have My Chemical

8:22

Romance's Helena on this list I added

8:24

recently. All the small

8:26

things by Blink-182 added that recently.

8:29

That's got a cool one with cool

8:31

leg fills. You know the work

8:34

sucks. Hit me with that

8:37

harmony Chris, ready? Absolutely. I

8:40

can't. I think

8:43

we've actually talked about this before on the show but

8:45

like, but Blink-182 was that weird,

8:49

that's that weird band for me where it's like I

8:51

like everything adjacent to it to the point where it's

8:53

weird that I don't like it. I did not like

8:56

it. I'm in the same boat Chris. I also am not

8:58

really a Blink fan. I don't hate them but. Yeah

9:01

it's like I'm

9:03

so sorry. I don't know

9:05

like I couldn't do

9:08

it. Hello there and I'm

9:10

so sorry. I couldn't do

9:13

it. I always wish it

9:15

was just the other dude singing. Right.

9:17

Why can't he just sing Mark Hoppus?

9:19

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah it's like a great voice. Like you

9:21

hear that in a lot of the songs where it's like oh yeah. And

9:24

then the other guy comes in and is like damn dude. It

9:27

was kind of like the dude obviously honestly in a lot, not

9:29

as bad but in system of a down. When

9:31

he started to kind of sing the guitar. Yeah. Yeah.

9:35

Everybody's setting the poor. Alright

9:37

what else on here? A lot of

9:40

offspring. That makes sense. You know what's a really

9:42

fun song to play on drums? Dr. Feelgood by Motley

9:44

Crue. I play that all the time. That's

9:46

on there. There's a lot of stuff. Just don't tell

9:48

the pilots pretty much every Rage

9:50

Against the Machine song. A great song to

9:52

play on drums is Backstreet Boys Larger Than

9:54

Life. Really cool. Hell yeah. On that song.

9:57

Oh yeah. Good shit. Tons of

9:59

smashing pumpkins. I don't play very

10:01

much 311. 311 is very complicated on

10:03

the drums. But there

10:05

are a few songs on here. And then one, Mike gets

10:07

tired of hearing it because I play it all the time.

10:09

There's no doubt, Tragic Kingdom, that whole record. That

10:11

was like maybe one of the most inspirational records for me to become a

10:13

drummer when I was a kid. I was 10 years old when that album

10:15

came out. And so I play that all the time. But

10:17

yeah, I'm always on there. The problem, I gotta

10:19

get the inner ear stuff. And I wanna get the

10:22

app. I watch the YouTube channel all the time. There's

10:24

a really awesome YouTube channel called Drumeo. I don't know

10:26

if you've ever heard of it. D-R-U-M-E-O. And

10:29

it's super awesome. They do all sorts of stuff. But one

10:31

of the cool things they do is they invite professional drummers

10:33

in, show them drum-less songs that they've

10:35

never heard before, and then see if they can figure

10:37

it out, like what it would actually sound like.

10:40

I saw the Megadeth drummer do that for Mr. Brightside.

10:42

Right, right. I was like, I think I've heard of

10:44

this channel. And so they have an app where apparently

10:46

they have tens of thousands of drum-less songs. And I

10:48

really just need to go to that because that would

10:50

be so fun. That's really cool. That's awesome. I

10:53

wish that I was more in

10:56

tune with drums in general because like as you were going through

10:58

all those songs, I was like, oh yeah, I know those songs.

11:00

And I was thinking about it. I don't

11:04

know the drum patterns to any of those, even

11:06

though I know those songs really intuitively.

11:09

And it's just like this weird blind spot for me.

11:12

Even when I'm recording stuff, I have

11:14

a hard time figuring out how do I add drums to

11:16

this. I have no idea. So I won't. And

11:18

I'll give it to somebody else. You

11:20

put drums in this because I have no fucking

11:23

clue where to begin with that. I

11:26

told you guys right that I found VHSs in my old band.

11:29

I don't know. I have to get those digitized at some point. We

11:32

have like whole videos of our live shows we would

11:34

play. This was in like 2003, 2004. Actually,

11:39

the ride symbol, I gave

11:41

my first drum kit to my nephews. And

11:45

it was like this kid I got in middle school. And

11:47

they got rid of it finally this many years later. And so

11:49

they actually dropped a bunch of my old cymbals off. And I

11:51

was like so stoked. This is my

11:53

ride cymbal from high school. My

11:56

dad had that exact one. Color ride.

11:58

Red. Yeah. And

12:01

so I got to, I don't know, I want

12:03

to, God, I love ride cymbals and the

12:06

different tones you get out of them. Cymbals themselves are

12:08

just so fun. And I

12:10

was saying on the show the other week that, you know, I

12:12

was a kid, I was getting like secondhand cymbals and

12:14

my first high hat was on

12:16

a high hat stand, but it was two field cymbals on

12:19

a high hat stand. And you didn't really even know the difference,

12:21

but they were very heavy obviously. So

12:23

it's like so cool. Cymbals are, my cymbals are more

12:25

expensive than my drum kit. Like

12:28

behind me. Like the cymbals cost more. And

12:33

it's cool to have like a little bit of money as an

12:35

adult where it's like, oh, I can actually get nice things for

12:37

once, you know, as opposed to

12:39

like secondhand nonsense. So

12:42

God, I love playing the drums, but it's

12:44

a lot of upkeep. It's not for everyone. I was complaining about

12:46

that on some inside recently how it's

12:48

just a lot. That's why I minimized to a jungle kick. Cause I'm like, I

12:50

can't, I can't be dealing with all this anymore. Things are falling out of tune.

12:52

You got to get new heads. I feel like it's a really, I had a

12:55

Roto Tom. I had a Roto Tom at one point. I'm like, I don't even

12:57

know what to do with these. Why

12:59

do I have these? You know, anyway, I'm sorry. I'm

13:01

going on a rant. or

13:04

so. I

13:06

don't know what it's all about. When we

13:08

started talking about the

13:21

call, you seemed a little, a little down. I don't know what it's all about. When

13:24

we started. Like it's, I'm a generally sad person. I

13:26

am just a sad person. you

13:29

doing? And

13:32

I was out of commission for a while. not going

13:35

to be able to do that. I'm Not going to be able to do that. The

14:00

all. Around it's very

14:02

it's probably for his private several years since

14:04

I felt as with. Him

14:07

from. Aren't. What it's all about the

14:09

really know for your gone on a little trips

14:11

and sometimes a change in environment so a shakeup

14:13

might. Shake. Out my not as

14:15

I know my leg on the fucking desk

14:18

Yes that also shook me out of it

14:20

Will yeah I am we are going to

14:22

Boston from that with today this of alive

14:24

we're going. For. Us

14:26

to the Bruins on Saturday and is what we wanted to be

14:28

there for. Today's will be back on Sunday afternoon but. Yeah.

14:31

My I am looking for. Do I have been a while since I

14:33

was thinking about us. When was the last I was in Boston? And

14:36

it was just sixteen. Why

14:39

was there for packs? But.

14:42

Otherwise, yeah, don't think enabled They're obviously for five

14:44

years of. Will. Be going around go

14:46

to northeastern I want to go to the. My.

14:49

Fear party going going to the olds who was

14:51

going to that sore. I

14:53

get another place where when you were a kid new and are

14:55

like a teenager when he went there and play. I can afford

14:57

any the stuff. And I'll go

14:59

in and they ask you what your you graduated as a

15:02

family. Help him. Get. You

15:04

the news I I you and your northeastern jersey This is This

15:06

Jersey is. Not. The one they were anymore. A

15:09

fucking loser with his resume. Almighty share.

15:11

Get tickets, Pm.

15:14

Said. Yeah

15:17

said he ever something out of this thing in

15:19

the air lately I can. I can sell that.

15:21

T Although it's been rainy here in Los Angeles

15:23

last couple days, which by the way, I didn't

15:25

sign up for this. Moment

15:28

I. Tossed. Cells

15:30

defeats the purpose you have a year in some

15:32

way if I ever is, as are the most

15:35

exciting things about. Moving. Here

15:37

in the first place. When I first came here many many

15:39

years ago was like oh shit if it barely rains this

15:41

is great and I'm to worry about any of that shit.

15:44

And. Now it's like. It. Feels

15:46

like some him since hugging Seattle. Is

15:48

it raining today? Malice well as clouds.

15:51

I don't know. it's it's overcast eve. So.

15:53

Like I don't know how the hell's going on. I

15:55

want to get. burned by the

15:58

sun forever until i died is at a very young

16:00

age but... Right. Crune. Alas, looks

16:02

like I have a long hydrated life ahead

16:04

of me. Oh, very hydrated indeed.

16:07

Yeah, the rain, it's been raining. I mean, the weather's weird

16:09

here too. I was out walking with the dogs before we

16:11

started recording because I was like, it's so nice out. Unusually

16:14

nice out, but it has been raining here a lot too.

16:17

Maybe we're going to be flooded again like the

16:20

days of Noah. Oh. Go

16:22

on the Ark two by two. Isn't that what it was? Yeah.

16:25

Is that what it was? Yeah, something like that. That makes sense. But

16:29

Dustin, you can't come. Ah. Okay.

16:33

I'll hang out. I'm not a good swimmer though, but...

16:35

Oh no. No. I've

16:38

never been a good... I can't... Dude, for

16:40

the longest time, I couldn't even tread water.

16:42

I just sunk down. I can

16:44

now. I got figured it out at some

16:46

point. It's a good rock, huh? Yeah. Oh

16:49

yeah. But yeah, I'm not

16:52

afraid of swimming. You know, I'm

16:54

fine. I'll jump in the deep end. No problem.

16:58

Yeah, water... Water's... It's

17:00

like there's a subreddit called Thalassophobia. What's

17:03

that? Like fear of like deep ocean. Oh.

17:06

Well that makes sense. Yeah. I

17:08

guess that's a little different. So I guess I'd be fucked in

17:10

this Ark two situation. In

17:12

this Deluvian... Isn't that what it would

17:15

be? Isn't Deluvian? Isn't that the

17:17

word for Noah's Ark? Isn't

17:19

that... Am I right about that?

17:21

An anti-Deluvian... Maybe. Deluvian... What

17:24

is... The anti-Deluvian age...

17:26

Yeah, the anti-Deluvian age is

17:28

after Noah's Ark, right? Yeah,

17:30

yeah. And we got to make sure

17:32

we get this definition perfect. We don't want to start

17:34

anything. Of relating to or brought about by a flood.

17:37

I don't know where the hell that came from. Oh,

17:39

okay. So a flood. I have to

17:41

say, man, like I don't know. A phobia of the deep ocean...

17:46

Phobias are defined as irrational fears and I feel

17:49

like we have to start... There

17:52

needs to be a word for... Whatever's the opposite of... Like an irrational

17:54

un-fear. Like,

18:00

to jump into the deep ocean and be

18:03

like, ah, yeah, it's whatever. I

18:06

think that's irrational. Yeah, exactly. I think

18:08

that's completely irrational. You are where you

18:10

absolutely shouldn't be from like an

18:12

evolutionary perspective. You should not be in the middle of the ocean.

18:14

You are a monkey. No

18:17

business being there. So intrinsically, that

18:19

doesn't make sense that you're totally

18:21

comfortable with that. Also, just a

18:23

sea of complete unknown organisms and

18:25

parasites and creatures underneath

18:27

you and infinite abyss. Like,

18:30

I'm not the best swimmer, but I can swim in

18:32

like a deep end pool, no problem. Like, I don't

18:34

give a shit. Just kick off the ground. But like,

18:36

if I'm thrown off a boat in the middle of

18:38

the ocean, I'm probably going to get in my own

18:40

head to be like, I can't swim here. I

18:42

can't swim here. I'm going to say. Yeah.

18:45

I would rather be in space than deep

18:47

in the ocean. Me too. Personally.

18:50

Me too. A million percent. Have

18:52

you guys seen? There's a YouTube video someone did on recently.

18:54

There's these guys that are working on oil pipe and something

18:57

happened where they opened it and the pressure sucked

18:59

them down into this pipe, like

19:02

on the ocean floor. And

19:04

they had to like, they couldn't see anything and they

19:06

had the tiny space to crawl in. It was horrifying.

19:08

It's great. Yeah, that's absolutely hell. Yeah,

19:10

you definitely don't belong in these places and there's

19:12

no doubt. Whether

19:15

we don't belong in space either, but that's just too fucking

19:17

bad. I

19:19

was watching a 60 minutes actually, a part

19:22

of 60 minutes this past week about

19:24

the Artemis program going to the moon and

19:26

how it's like way over budget. And I was

19:29

getting really upset watching it because they're like

19:31

internal money guy or whatever that's like kind of

19:33

meant to be skeptical like their

19:35

inspector general or whatever it was. He's

19:37

just like, it's just too expensive. Like he didn't care at all.

19:39

Like, dude, we're going to the moon, dude. It's exciting.

19:41

It costs $4 billion to go to the moon.

19:43

Good. I don't give a fuck.

19:46

Yeah. Yeah. Good. Send

19:49

as many people to the moon as possible. We're sending Dustin to the moon. They'll

19:53

give you a haircut up there. And

19:55

I first podcast from the moon. I don't

19:57

know if the connection, I mean, then cast

19:59

are barely. works here on land. So...

20:01

That's not going to be good up there. 200,000 miles

20:03

away, you know. Yeah. Might be a little, a

20:06

little latent. Yeah, not so

20:08

bad. I mean, it's not crazy,

20:10

but it's enough. Several seconds it'll

20:12

take. Yeah. But then again, you're

20:14

on the moon. Yeah. So I'm not going on

20:16

the Ark and I'm going to the moon. Right.

20:19

You're not going on the Ark because you're going

20:21

to the moon. Okay, good. That means I'm one

20:23

of the last remaining survivors, other

20:25

than there'll be people on the Ark and

20:27

whoever's going with me to the moon. Everyone

20:30

else is fucked. And a Kevin Kostner-like water world

20:32

situation where there is actually a society living on

20:34

top of the water as well. Oh, okay.

20:36

Yeah. How are you going to get

20:38

to the moon? You're going to Trebuchet or... Yeah, I

20:41

learned all about that from the Xbox

20:43

event last year. The Trebuchet. Oh yeah,

20:45

that's right. I

20:48

always see the things about the space elevator. Maybe

20:51

that's the way to get up. It is definitely the way to do

20:53

it. It's just we're not anywhere close to doing

20:55

it. That would be so awesome if we had space elevators.

20:57

The idea of a space elevator is that you could basically

21:00

make a tether from the surface of

21:03

the Earth so high into

21:06

low Earth orbit that it'll stay

21:08

straight and taut. And then

21:10

you can get things and it'll basically, you can just

21:12

get things up and down into low Earth orbit. And

21:14

that's where we should be building everything. It

21:16

would be so much cheaper and easier to build

21:18

everything we would need in the lower

21:21

Earth orbit. Why? Because then we wouldn't need rockets. Yeah. They're

21:24

a big problem

21:26

with space junk. Yeah, it's

21:28

a huge problem with the uranium. Yeah, there's

21:30

particles. We're basically going to be surrounded

21:32

by our own garbage and

21:34

unable to get out. That will be a job in

21:37

the future in the coming hundreds of years is to

21:39

get shit out of orbit. Yeah. We

21:41

have to go clean it up. Because yeah, one

21:43

of those... Even like a bolt, going 30,000 miles

21:45

an hour is going to fucking go completely through

21:47

your space suit, through your spaceship, depressurize it, and

21:49

fuck it all up. It's amazing. I think a

21:51

lot of people are amazed that it doesn't happen

21:54

already. That it's not

21:56

like way worse. Because there's so many derelict things

21:58

up there. Like, so that was... of

22:00

things that have been just abandoned. Is

22:03

it the movie Mission to Mars? Did you ever see

22:05

that movie? Yeah, I did see that movie. There's like

22:07

a space junk that hits the ship and

22:10

fucks it all up. And then they

22:12

save the day because they have like

22:15

a Capri Sun of Dr. Pepper that goes

22:17

and the ice fills the hole. Do

22:19

you remember this? Am I? No, I do vaguely

22:22

remember this. The thing about it, I remember most of it. I remember two

22:24

things about Mission to Mars, again, that was the era when I went and

22:26

saw everything in the theater. So

22:28

I went and saw that in the theater and it got fucked up.

22:31

Like midway through, like something messed up so they had to start

22:33

the movie again. Which that's what

22:35

I remember about that. The other thing I remember is that

22:38

in the beginning, there's like a party scene with their

22:41

families, like Yasharas families, and it's like in

22:43

the near future and they had these very

22:45

futuristic Coke bottles. And

22:47

that's what I remember about that, about Mission to Mars.

22:49

Those are my two major takeaways, is the fucking marketing

22:52

that was embedded in it and it

22:54

must have been what, 2000 something

22:56

like that? Yeah, dude,

22:59

and they were inspired by Magic School Bus because

23:01

the guy takes off his helmet in space just

23:03

like Arnold did

23:06

and brutally killed himself. That's

23:08

right. Yeah, that's right. Magic School Bus. That

23:14

was like a little after my time, I think. I

23:17

didn't really like it or watch it. I didn't really understand it. I

23:19

think I was too old for it. But then again, I said before

23:21

that I was way too old for Arthur and I used to watch

23:23

the shit out of that show. I had a great video of some

23:25

guy going like, oh my God, he did. When

23:28

Arnold takes his helmet off and he freezes

23:30

in deep space. I just have that on

23:33

my fucking phone as like audio. Oh my

23:35

God. Dude,

23:37

Ms. Frizzle? What?

23:40

Stand down. Yeah, you can get it. She can

23:42

get it. Ms. Frizzle can get it. Oh man. What

23:46

the fuck is wrong with you, Chris? What's wrong with Ms. Frizzle?

23:48

Tell me right now what's wrong with her. Let me look her

23:50

up real quick. Yeah, I'm gonna go. Oh, I forgot they had

23:52

a new one. where

24:00

like it looks like clipart. She

24:03

has like she looks young in the new one right? Yeah.

24:06

I don't know Dustin. You like her? Yeah

24:08

she's got like oh she's kind of... Oh

24:10

this image didn't work. Miss Frizzle's

24:12

where you know Miss Frizzle wears that makeup

24:15

that like weird white women

24:17

wear where they make their eyes almost they

24:19

almost look Asian with them but with the makeup you know

24:21

I'm talking about? Miss Frizzle has

24:23

that that thing going on with her eyes. Yeah.

24:26

You guys know exactly what I'm talking about?

24:28

I've seen this most recently with that Hannah

24:30

Gutierrez woman that was just tried for manslaughter

24:33

from the rust. She

24:35

has that she wears makeup like

24:37

that. The fake the fake

24:39

kind of I don't want

24:42

to even say it. We're I feel

24:44

like we have the strangest

24:46

reference polls ever. That

24:49

makes sense. That was a drastic turn like Miss

24:51

Frizzle for this... Oh yeah

24:53

she looks just like this woman who was tried for

24:55

manslaughter to say Hannah Gutierrez you know this person?

25:00

I don't know

25:02

why does anybody wear anything the way they

25:04

wear it really. That's true. It's just like

25:07

you it's like almost like you slipped. It's

25:09

like your eye actually ended here. Yeah.

25:11

What are you in the court

25:13

of Louis the 16th or something? I don't understand what's going

25:15

on with this ornate this

25:18

ornate makeup. The

25:21

court of Louis the 16th of course. Angie

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right. By

26:57

the way, I've been watching this really awesome documentary on

26:59

YouTube about

27:01

the early history of Japan and

27:03

it's so well done and I don't know

27:05

anything about Japan. I

27:08

know a lot about it or more about it when

27:10

you get to like the 1500s, 1600s into like towards

27:13

the Meiji restoration and all that kind of stuff.

27:16

But we're going way back with these guys

27:19

and I'm like, you could be making all of this up

27:22

but I don't know. But it's a

27:24

wonderful documentary. I want

27:26

to watch that show Shogun. I've been hearing

27:28

a lot about On Hulu. I heard it's

27:30

pretty cool. Everything

27:32

I know about ancient Japan is from

27:35

playing Total War Shogun 2 when I was

27:37

in college which is

27:39

practically nothing but a cool

27:41

game. I don't know. I

27:43

know very little about Japan. I think we had

27:46

a problem with them at some point and Godzilla.

27:49

That's about it. Japan

27:51

is interesting because I only took one class in college on

27:53

Japan. I don't really know anything about it. I remember by

27:55

the way, even in the time, this must have been 2004,

27:57

2005, I knew at the time It

28:00

was like an old white man professor and I was like, this guy's a

28:02

huge weeb. Why do you know

28:04

Japanese so well? And why do you care about this so

28:06

much? I remember learning about

28:08

that, but we all know, I mean, the United

28:10

States kind of broke Japan open right before the

28:12

Civil War and it didn't

28:15

know how to interact with the Western

28:17

world and became like mega imperial. We

28:20

kind of are the little domino that

28:22

led the World War II. It led

28:24

right back to us. I

28:28

often think about like... They fucked around a little bit, didn't they?

28:31

Yeah. Do you

28:34

think if you went back in time and

28:37

told... Like

28:39

if you could bring back the

28:42

spirits of the

28:44

people who rejected Hitler from our school

28:46

and just tell them like, hey, by the way, just

28:50

so you know, I'm going to pull

28:52

you out of your permanent peace

28:54

and your infinite

28:56

rest just to let you know that

28:58

you killed millions with your stinginess. Right.

29:02

And it's ridiculous because his art isn't even bad.

29:04

Yeah, it's not that amazing,

29:07

but like... Yeah, it's not

29:09

even... It's not amazing, but it's

29:11

like it's way better than I could do it. I feel like

29:13

there's at least a jumping off point here. It's like, why did...

29:16

What did they have against him, man? Like, I really

29:18

looked weird. Maybe they just thought it's like, ew, that

29:20

mustache is gross. You can't come to art school. Dude,

29:23

I'm looking at some of these paintings now and it's like, ooh. Yeah,

29:27

they're fine. They're like, good. It's

29:30

like, I

29:32

don't understand why you didn't just accept him in

29:34

art school. They were so

29:37

stingy that they killed thousands. It's

29:39

crazy. Oh, what? You're a...

29:42

You're a 16-year-old that fucking paints these

29:46

idyllic castle scenes? We don't want you. You

29:49

know? Thanks, guys. Appreciate that. I wonder if

29:51

that runs through anybody's mind when they're rejecting

29:54

somebody from an art school today.

29:57

If you're in charge of like, okay, somebody applies to

29:59

art school. And then you're in charge of determining whether or

30:01

not they get in I wonder if that thought ever runs into

30:03

their heads where it's like This could be I

30:06

say no to this guy. This this could be the next Hitler

30:08

the next fascist dictator of Europe.

30:10

You never know Yeah

30:15

Welcome to sacred symbols a PlayStation podcast We

30:18

go live each and every week you can

30:20

get us three days early and add free over on patreon three days Three

30:22

days early and add free over on patreon

30:25

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30:27

you over there early add free access to

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every episode of this show and all of our other shows including

30:31

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30:38

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30:40

on and so on different tiers there, but the $5

30:42

tier is the most popular and you'll also get sacred

30:44

symbols plus once a week that is our our

30:48

weekly supplement to sacred symbols and We

30:51

just did a really interesting one that will go live

30:53

tomorrow from when this goes live on patreon About

30:56

emulation kind of spinning off of

30:58

what happened with the yuzu emulator

31:00

for switch and Nintendo and so

31:03

I invited Hogan to talk about

31:06

it from a legal perspective and then we had Dagen and

31:08

Brad on to talk about

31:10

it and myself to talk about it from

31:12

a more moral and ethical position and So

31:17

I'm sure that awkward conversations gonna annoy some people. Please

31:19

enjoy it. I Just interviewed

31:21

cliffy be which was interesting and I had Jonathan

31:23

blow on the show as well for a fascinating

31:25

discussion Dustin did his Japanese

31:27

interview. I think that's live now for everyone on YouTube

31:31

Went to Final Fantasy 7 rebirth that game is out now.

31:33

So I know a lot of you are enjoying it I

31:35

talked to mystic Ryan recently. We have others upcoming. I'd like

31:38

to do a conversation about hell divers at some point And

31:41

we will certainly do that Josh kiss call

31:43

wrote in on patreon Remember one of the percival room patreon

31:45

is I put up a thread each week in the newsfeed

31:47

you respond to it I pulled through it and grab things

31:49

that I'd like to talk about he says good day gents

31:52

This is a PSA for all other sacred symbols listeners

31:54

for years sacred symbols has been the only show I

31:56

listen to from LSM But summon sign has joined the

31:59

rotation. It's awesome to get deeper conversations about individual

32:01

games and Brad is an awesome host. For

32:03

anyone who may only listen to Sacred Symbols, I think Sum

32:05

and Sign will become a new fave dropping LSM a big

32:08

keep it up. Glad to

32:10

hear that. Sum and Sign is doing wonderful. And

32:12

we're proud of Brad. And we're proud of all

32:14

everyone. I thought the all stars of February, which

32:16

was an all time month for us was, were

32:18

the Dukes. They did a really great job. All

32:21

the Xbox news, handling all that, a lot

32:23

of pressure, as there

32:26

was much to talk about. We can't relate here in

32:28

PlayStation world. Lastdaymedia.store

32:30

for merch. And

32:32

follow us wherever you like to listen to your podcast. Remember,

32:34

by the way, you might have noticed this if you're an

32:36

audio listener, or if you're a last audio listener, you might

32:38

even be even more pleased to notice this is, start

32:41

putting timestamps in the audio versions. I've

32:44

long been against this, but then two

32:46

things have kind of happened. And

32:48

by the way, I guess it's not two things. I'll

32:50

explain why I was against it first. I

32:53

was against it because the timestamps are going to be wrong because

32:56

we have dynamic ads on our

32:58

audio. And so I

33:00

wanted to avoid the like these timestamps are wrong

33:02

every week thing. So what we've done

33:05

is we've just approximated as best we can where we

33:07

think each thing will start, you're going to probably have

33:09

to scroll around a little bit. But that's just the

33:11

nature of the dynamic ads. I guess the other reason

33:13

though that I did it even because of that problem

33:15

that I anticipated is it's just like

33:17

I use timestamps like that. So

33:20

like when I really became more self aware

33:22

that it's like, no, we got to just do this.

33:25

And so I think people on the audio feeds will like it.

33:27

By the way, dude, the Spotify feed

33:30

for last stand is so

33:32

clean. When you if you

33:34

connect to it or whatever, if you're a member, or if

33:36

you just go over there and use it

33:38

as a free member, it's so clean

33:40

over there. Spotify, our Spotify connectivity with Patreon is

33:42

awesome. So definitely check that out. All

33:46

right. Let's get into things to

33:48

talk about here. We

33:51

have a quick correction. Actually, I guess I'm gonna...

33:53

Is this two weeks in a row that I fucked everything up? I think

33:56

so. It's too

33:58

bad. Let me see. Whatever.

34:01

Yeah, I'm gonna drop this down here. Oh. I

34:04

gotta get it together. Fucking it all up. I'm

34:06

getting the yips as we get closer to episode 300.

34:08

I'm starting to not be able to perform anymore. Oh,

34:11

no. As the need to

34:13

perform grows and heightens. Mm.

34:17

Veldin Lompax wrote in and said,

34:19

last week during the conversation about the bloated

34:22

quantity of games releasing nowadays, Colin proposed a

34:24

radical idea. Cut the droves of games released

34:26

each year by 60 percent, or in his

34:28

exact words, three-fifths. I

34:30

wholeheartedly agree and think more people would

34:33

welcome this so-called three-fifths compromise. What

34:35

a unique and novel idea that I'm sure has never been

34:37

proposed for and has absolutely no historical baggage. Godspeed. Thank

34:40

you, Veldin. Lompax. Whenever

34:43

I use the term three-fifths, I immediately think of

34:45

that. Yeah, I mean, of course.

34:48

You said it in the episode. I

34:51

think even if you watch the video, I guess I like my eyes

34:53

open. Yeah. I think I

34:56

flashback into like, oh, I'm on snark tank,

34:58

and now I'm going to have to cut

35:00

through a five-minute barrage of jokes

35:03

about this that I have to sit and listen to. But,

35:07

yeah, it's interesting. Interesting fraction. Yeah,

35:10

it is. It's a ruined fraction.

35:12

But I'll consider this three-fifths compromise.

35:14

Thank you, Veldin, for writing in.

35:16

It's like the mathematical equivalent of

35:18

the Chaplin stash. Yeah,

35:20

sure. Yeah, tainted. Yeah, tainted.

35:23

Chaplin, it's so funny you bring that up

35:25

because Micah told me, God, who was it?

35:29

There's like some actress today who's related to

35:31

Charlie Chaplin who works, who's in something that

35:34

I watched, and it was – I'm

35:36

like, oh, that's so weird. Charlie Chaplin has progenitors.

35:38

Of course he does. Why wouldn't he? But

35:41

I don't think her last name's Chaplin though. It says Una.

35:43

Una Chaplin is a Spanish actress. Oh, Una Chaplin, maybe. But like,

35:45

I don't think that's – I don't think that has anything. Oh,

35:47

wait, wait. Oh, her mother is Geraldine

35:50

Chaplin. She's also the granddaughter of English film actor Charlie Chaplin. Okay,

35:53

so it's a Spanish actress. Not who I'm thinking of.

35:55

Is she in Spanish films or is she in –

35:57

I don't know. I don't know. shouldn't

36:00

have brought it up because I have no information. I've

36:03

retained nothing about it. All

36:07

right.

36:09

Colin Goodspeed with two L's wrote

36:12

in and said, CBC just chiming in as a

36:14

follow up to the Arby's conversation. This might sound like

36:16

a weird subtle bit, but it's actually true. I

36:18

freelance direct many of the Arby's we have the meats

36:20

commercials and have for years. If you don't

36:22

believe me, just Google my name. So if you ever see

36:24

one of those Arby's ads where Ving Rhames

36:26

is talking about roast beef, just know there's an

36:29

LSM fan behind the camera. While I

36:31

enjoyed the hell out of your genuine roast of them,

36:33

you should at some point try their beef and cheddar

36:35

with curly fries and a Jamoka shake. It's surprisingly not

36:37

too bad. I did look up your

36:40

name. I love

36:42

that recommendation. It's surprisingly not too bad.

36:44

Yeah. Yeah. Good. Very. I'm sure

36:46

they're thrilled by that recommendation, but that's

36:48

like how you described like a, like a

36:51

colonoscopy that went well. Let's

36:56

see. He was born in 1986. Colin

36:59

is a fan of storytelling within multiple,

37:01

multiple mediums. His appreciation of visual language,

37:03

comedy, and surrealism has been infused

37:05

into his work as a director and editor in his free

37:07

time. Colin likes to go to loud concerts, check out cool

37:09

standup comedians and watch pretentious art, hard films. He

37:12

also spends a weird amount of time actively hating

37:14

the band fish and all of their hippie fans.

37:16

That's pretty nice. Why are you such a hater? Direct.

37:19

He directed the good burger to promo for Arby's

37:23

bunch of Arby stuff. He seems like he has a good, a

37:25

good, uh, work with them.

37:28

Yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, you go. Good

37:30

for you. Yeah, man. Congrats. That's fanatics. Oh,

37:32

you did fanatics. Now I fucking

37:36

hate fanatics. Everyone hates fanatics. Um,

37:39

so there is that and that's a, that's a dinging

37:41

against you. Fanatics of course is a merch company, but

37:43

they, they are so

37:46

they are notoriously horrible

37:48

and there's like entire Twitter accounts dedicated

37:50

to how bad the, uh,

37:52

the fanatics merch experiences, I think I'm thinking of the

37:54

right company. I'm like just

37:56

bashing a company that, that, that. I

38:00

think I've heard that too. No

38:02

it is. I'm looking it up. Yeah,

38:04

what's so... Yeah, this is right. So

38:06

this was a big thing in hockey because

38:08

fanatics is taking over the hockey jerseys I

38:11

think next year from Adidas and

38:13

people are freaking out about it. And if you look up

38:15

the MLB Major League Baseball

38:17

uniforms this year, they're so bad. They

38:20

are so bad. They look like little league teams. Little

38:24

boys playing baseball. Colin Goodspeed, thank you

38:26

for writing in. Stay

38:29

frosty out there. Mark

38:33

James wrote in. He

38:35

said, okay, now the laxative gate stuff is pissing me

38:37

off. It's clearly the word

38:39

they needed multiple times in episode. Colin

38:42

tells everyone how stupid he is now and he has no idea

38:44

what's happening after the time. He smokes so

38:46

much pot that his brain is scrambled. Dustin told us the

38:48

episode that he doesn't remember anything he says after the pot

38:50

wraps. So why do we even listen to him have an

38:52

opinion about this is frankly insulting. I was just so confidently

38:54

wrong about more things than anyone I've ever encountered in my

38:56

life. I've never seen him do a lot of things, but

38:58

when he misses, he misses hard. The fact Colin

39:01

has told us every embarrassing thing that's happened to him, but nothing

39:03

to do with the fact that he can't stand being told he

39:05

was wrong. He hates it so much he made

39:07

a recurring segment in the show and others about him being right

39:09

about things. I think someone who is

39:11

that attached to not being wrong has smoked his

39:13

brain into a permanent state of semi-psychosis. He might

39:16

spend an hour of his time trying to convince us otherwise. So

39:18

as much fun as it is listening to you all jerk each other

39:21

off over how great your straw man arguments are, how about you just

39:23

take the hit. Then write the definition of the

39:25

word down a couple of times so you don't forget it next time. Everyone

39:28

suggested the word fire because you were describing exactly

39:30

what a fire is. Please keep

39:32

telling us all that. No, actually there isn't a word for

39:34

that we were looking for. In all the combined of human

39:36

history, no one ever came up with a word for fire.

39:39

You three degenerate morons were the first people to ever think

39:41

about what to call something when it's burning. A

39:45

lot of people have been writing about this. It's

39:47

so ignorantly hostile. I know. It's

39:49

like crazy. You've ever heard the word like

39:51

conflagration or inferno or like

39:54

other maybe more complicated words for something simple

39:56

that you would… I mean, come on. Let's

39:58

be real. I'm

40:01

a little confused by it. I

40:03

remain confused. I remain totally

40:06

flummoxed by what

40:08

the confusion is. Yeah. I

40:11

just don't understand anymore. I don't know how else to explain it. Because

40:16

people are so focused on the word

40:18

laxative, but what we were

40:20

saying was that the words we were thinking

40:22

of were not the right words for the

40:24

moment anyway. We

40:27

could be literally thinking of any word because

40:30

the whole nugget of it is

40:32

that it's not the right word.

40:37

We were thinking of things that did not mean what

40:40

you're saying. I'm shutting this whole thing down. I'm

40:43

just convinced that the word doesn't exist. I could have

40:45

sworn there was just like a more technical

40:49

term for like a, I

40:51

guess a synonym for laxative, but laxative

40:53

is the obvious one. I don't

40:55

know. It's weird. Oh,

40:58

well. It's just, it is what it is. I

41:03

do an entire segment of the show with

41:05

corrections every week. If there are corrections.

41:07

There are corrections this

41:10

week. I don't feel like the

41:12

explanation to the conspiracy is sufficient

41:16

at all. It's just

41:18

not sufficient. There's

41:20

nothing here. You

41:23

guys got to let this one go. This

41:26

is like world trade center building seven. It's

41:30

exactly like it. Right. By

41:32

the way, I'm getting fucking pissed off, man. I

41:35

have this nice keyboard, this DOS keyboard.

41:38

Oh yeah. And on the back of

41:40

it is this ruler, but

41:43

it acts also as like the thing that keeps the

41:45

keyboard kind of pitched up if you want it that

41:47

way. And it's just suddenly coming

41:49

off constantly. This keyboard was

41:51

really expensive. I'm

41:55

sorry, man. I have an

41:57

Amazon basics. I

42:00

got the basic as I got this this standard

42:02

ass Amazon basic keyboard because I could I could

42:04

give flesha If it works, it works. I I've

42:07

bought expensive keywords before and I've always been disappointed

42:09

because I was like, oh this has no Functionally

42:13

no goddamn difference on

42:15

my experience working a computer. There really doesn't

42:17

wait loud. Yeah. Yeah Isn't

42:19

it bad? It's it's it's getting worn

42:21

in though, you know I Yes,

42:26

I like I know I understand that like I like

42:28

the clicks of like mechanical keyboards I like it, but

42:30

I don't know if I necessarily like it When

42:33

I'm using it Strange

42:35

like I like it as a sound effect in

42:37

like movies and stuff. It's like, oh, yeah, cool I like

42:39

it. But like when I'm using it, it like distracts the

42:41

hell out of me Like I like to have like a

42:43

silent I don't know It's kind of

42:45

like I'm on the like on the phone with

42:47

the the touch tones when whenever you're like texting

42:49

and then like the The phone makes

42:52

like little clicks like

42:54

that and I

42:56

don't need you to pretend But you

42:59

it's like a fake sound because I know I

43:01

know from using silent keyboards But

43:03

you don't bet the sound is unnecessary. And so for

43:05

you to project that sound to me, it just feels

43:08

kind of like Just like you're

43:10

trying too hard or something. Yeah, you gotta get like

43:12

rotary phone noises going there There's

43:14

nothing worse to press the next button.

43:16

Yeah, go on. Yeah there's nothing worse

43:18

than someone who has the the sound

43:20

clicks on and you're just kind of

43:23

Idly by this is something my dad's guilty

43:25

of that he'll be on his phone It's

43:28

just like a constant stream of these and

43:30

he has it like full blast totally unaware

43:34

Just just you know in his own

43:36

world Yeah, it bothers the same like,

43:38

you know part of your the brain tone We

43:41

talked about this the the mouth noises any

43:43

kind of little on and

43:45

off constant sound like that No,

43:47

no. No. Yeah, I'm out. The voices are just Agree

43:51

just it's crazy like what people get

43:53

away with with that. Let's

43:55

just put it that way Where There

43:58

are people making mouth noises so egregious, sometimes. Like

44:00

how do you not know that you're talking like that? What?

44:03

Is. Your.

44:05

Thing I know that you know that you are,

44:07

you are. It's that's like a dominant position like

44:09

your intimidating me. When

44:11

you're from, when you're using mouth noises that agree

44:14

just like get it together, take a drink of

44:16

water For Christ's sake. Speaking.

44:20

Of which. Gonna.

44:22

Get your honor. So. I just over nine years

44:24

old and a smart water. Oh yeah, I.

44:28

Didn't. Do you find Because I stopped once I

44:30

got still target as I all I mean swore

44:32

that's the important thing. Members and I still the

44:34

subway seventeen times Once I open it the saga

44:36

held arrive at the stake idea that that's what

44:38

as I was asking I was I enjoyed a

44:40

new smart whatever is. no I didn't for new

44:42

and old listeners or member this but. I.

44:44

Told you this before the reason I got in the smart water

44:46

at all. Was. Because apart se. Because.

44:51

The bottle, no matter what you do to it. Makes.

44:54

No noise. Yeah, we use it

44:56

and manipulated and molested. As

44:59

much as you'd like. And that was adding up.

45:01

A lot of people came. To the into

45:03

Durham I kind of. funny days. And.

45:05

So I started things more work. And

45:08

but I still it's wasteful it is. Drink

45:10

them over and over again. They're also really

45:12

expensive like dig and drinks fiji water but

45:14

he straight up those ring fiji water knowing

45:16

what are you? Fucking whoa? You are so.

45:19

I. Like get it and that I have the fridge water.

45:21

And Odyssey and up like a few times or whatever

45:23

and then I'll just get Iran Public School. I love

45:25

the bottle. I love these bottles. It's I would rather

45:28

have this bottle them like I had. reusable. Stanley

45:30

Cup or something not like of. These.

45:33

Bad Boys: The we got the yeti. They're

45:35

nice. I mean, they're really nice, but there's

45:37

something. There's

45:40

something about discarding it and never using it again

45:42

after a little Us: yeah, like I'm dumb ass.

45:45

Yeah. It's a freeing feeling, right? I said

45:47

that? That yeti magazine really good for like

45:49

coffee specifically like idea if I have coffee.

45:51

It's it's going in there. Yeah.

45:54

so it's a bit a a i see a

45:56

bit big for coffee nine hundred a large office

45:58

by the american standard it It really isn't. Yeah,

46:01

that's true. All right, let's see. Oh, I liked this question. This

46:04

is a good one. Stretch our gaming legs for a little while. Nicholas Wilson wrote in

46:06

and said, good day. Oh, by the way, before we

46:08

get into this, I don't want to

46:11

hear about laxative gait anymore. You

46:19

guys lost. Yeah. You

46:21

have not successfully convinced me that

46:24

you even have the fucking slightest

46:26

modicum of a grasp on the situation.

46:29

You're not even on the right path. Stand up.

46:32

So just give it up. It's

46:34

over. Okay. Nicholas Wilson.

46:37

Good day, gentlemen. I'm

46:40

finally in a financial situation when I can pledge allegiance to

46:42

LSM after one or two for many years now. Thank you

46:45

and welcome. And boy, does it feel fucking good to finally

46:47

be here. More of a hypothetical one for you. Planet

46:50

Earth is ending and we have to leave. You

46:52

have managed to land a position on a ship

46:54

destined for Proxima Centauri. Everyone

46:56

has been playing Collins games and are all charged

46:59

with curating one console on five games originally released

47:01

on that console to live forever live in the

47:03

annals of human history. What would you

47:05

pick? Keep doing what you do and never stop. You

47:08

know, I think about this fairly deeply actually

47:10

because I think about space travel all the time because I love it. And

47:13

Proxima Centauri is obviously the closest star system

47:15

to us and is the like the travel

47:18

to star system and a million things of

47:20

sci-fi including in the things that I've written

47:22

for Lily Mo. So it's cool that to

47:24

be talking about this. The

47:26

reality is that I've thought about this through the

47:29

lens of YouTube actually. It's like

47:31

if you're going on this intergalactic trip and

47:33

there really is no way for you to

47:36

have a reasonable bandwidth to get things to and from

47:39

Earth anymore, you have to take everything with you, right?

47:41

Like it's you're going to get to a point where

47:43

you're barely going to be able to communicate survival

47:45

pains to be picked up from your ship. So

47:47

you're not going to be able to have bandwidth to get like, oh,

47:49

we'd get the news today and show it. It's

47:51

not going to happen. And I'm like, could you? Let's

47:54

say this, let's say we start going to other star systems in 100 years,

47:57

which I think is reasonable. I

47:59

think this will accelerate. very fast, probably after we're

48:01

dead. It's like,

48:03

do you have hard drives and all this stuff sufficient enough

48:05

to be like, all right, we're going on

48:08

this thing, tear down all

48:10

of YouTube as it exists right now and

48:15

place it in this hard drive or something like that for

48:17

access. And so like we could just have access to YouTube

48:19

and as it was when we

48:21

left anyway, it would never be updated. And

48:23

I wonder if you could do with the same in the future for

48:25

games, where it would be kind of limiting to think it's like,

48:27

oh, you can only, it's

48:29

fun to think about what you're saying from

48:32

a thought exercise, Nicholas, but it's like we

48:34

would go to another star system and only have the

48:36

ability to bring a few games with us. I

48:40

don't know about that. Yeah. I

48:42

think we'd have them all. Just no new

48:45

games after that, which would be interesting. And even

48:47

then, would

48:49

you be a podcaster in the flotilla,

48:51

Chris, talking about video games as

48:53

you go through your catalog on the generation ship and you're

48:55

going to die, you're not even going to get the Proxima

48:58

Centauri. Maybe your grandkids will be there. I

49:00

don't know. I feel like I would be too enamored

49:02

with the fact that I'm on a spacefaring vessel to

49:05

be interested

49:07

in anything other than that fact. I would find some

49:09

way to be involved with like the ship. I'd be

49:11

like, what can I do for the ship? Because

49:14

I don't know, there's something, even with

49:16

like Firefly, I remember, and like just like a lot

49:18

of sci-fi, there was always that guy like in the

49:20

bridge or like in the engineering bay who was like

49:22

toiling away at something. I

49:24

feel like I would want to do that in that

49:26

scenario. We're like, oh, this vessel,

49:28

yeah, this is my ship. Yeah,

49:31

I know this engine. Oh,

49:33

well, they're good. The Shaw Fujikawa space. Quantum

49:39

leap engine, whatever the fuck this is. I

49:42

love the idea of being, no way. I don't

49:44

think I would be like an entertainer on a vessel like

49:46

that. I think I would be too obsessed with that, with

49:48

just the reality of that, to

49:50

do anything other than focus on it. What

49:54

do you think about the ethics of a generation ship? That

49:58

people, one generation choose. it to go

50:00

on this this arc basically and then future

50:03

unborn generations are gonna be stuck

50:05

there no matter what. Unable

50:07

to leave and they'll live and

50:10

die on the ship and they won't even get to their

50:12

destinations. Very interesting. I don't know. Is

50:14

there an ethical quandary there at all really? I

50:17

think so. In some cases you have

50:19

no free anything and you're born into a

50:21

situation where with not even it's

50:23

not even like you're born into a slave camp or

50:25

something you're born into space in

50:28

the middle of interstellar space. You have

50:30

no choice. Nothing. You are a slave.

50:33

I guess but you don't really

50:35

have a choice to be here anyway. I didn't apply for

50:37

this. The

50:40

planet Earth's pretty different than a

50:42

single spaceship. It is but it's

50:44

similarly isolated in the grand scheme.

50:49

What alternatives though? That's what

50:51

I'm saying. It's like there's no alternative

50:53

but I just don't. You're

50:57

just in your situation anyway. I don't really see it

50:59

as really that much of an ethical problem at all.

51:03

Wow. Because also people who

51:05

are going to grow up on the or people who

51:07

are going to go on the the generation ship, they

51:09

choose to do that, right? Yeah,

51:12

the first generation of people on the

51:15

generation ship would choose to be there

51:17

and they would basically enslave future generations

51:20

to the ship until they got

51:22

to their destination however long it would take. If

51:25

you went to Proxima Centauri which is like four light

51:27

years away and you went

51:29

0.5% of light speed which is probably

51:31

a reasonable estimation for how fast we

51:33

would be able to go for

51:36

a while, you're talking about 80 years. In that case,

51:40

you could imagine a young child

51:42

getting to Proxima Centauri but anything

51:45

beyond that would require multiple

51:47

generations of ships. This is what Twin Breakers about by the way

51:49

are game if you ever want to check it out. I guess to

51:51

me I look at it like well the kids are going to

51:53

be born in a situation that's going to be their world and they're

51:56

not really gonna, they're

51:58

not going to feel really, what miss really

52:00

the entire context of their existence is on

52:02

that ship and I guess

52:04

you I guess technically you've stolen that the rest of

52:07

the context of Earth from them

52:09

in some way but I

52:12

don't know I feel like that's equivalently as unethical

52:14

as having a kid in the first place and be like

52:16

forcing a consciousness into existence it didn't really you know

52:19

they didn't they didn't nobody applied to be born you know

52:22

what I mean that's all here I how do you tell

52:24

a person who's like been like depressed or like suicidal for

52:26

like 90 years or something you know I mean like that

52:28

like I don't know

52:30

even if they're on earth it these

52:34

are free free this is free will

52:36

really ultimately mmm I

52:39

don't know I don't feel like this big of a

52:41

deal we'll leave it there for now we

52:44

can revisit those on constellation in the future yeah

52:46

it'll be fun right

52:50

Jason wrote in some colon I am reluctantly writing we

52:52

want to answer the question

52:56

was oh yeah no I have my answer is that

52:58

there there would be no situation which that would be

53:00

true so I can't even begin to answer sorry

53:03

go ahead Dustin I forgot I wrote out five

53:05

games oh you did a console initially I realized

53:07

because I wrote PC but then I realized that's

53:09

not a console really but all these games are

53:11

on PlayStation 5 so we can just say PS5

53:14

I wrote Tetris Effect for

53:17

remembering the beauty of the earth civilization

53:20

so you can get a weird fucked-up

53:22

version of history that never happened Minecraft

53:25

for different creative

53:27

outlet Undertale for the

53:30

empathy of humanity and I

53:32

put Bioshock just because everyone

53:34

should play it and it's awesome so

53:37

this is my five because I thought of

53:39

it from approach of like these

53:41

are five games that can represent different

53:43

aspects of us as

53:45

humans going out not

53:48

necessarily the best five you want to play forever and

53:50

ever yeah you can take it different ways I

53:53

will just have all the games okay

53:56

we'll have endless entertainment in these situations

53:58

yeah I'm

54:01

going to Jason

54:03

now. Are we good to go move on? Yeah.

54:07

Okay. Colin, I am reluctantly writing it

54:09

from a place of great shock, concern, and disgust. I

54:12

feel like I must speak up about a great evil that has

54:14

been perpetrated. Last week you responded

54:16

to someone who mentioned they work for DoorDash delivery. You had

54:18

given them a following advice. Quote, I hope

54:20

everyone is giving you the appropriate tip and if they don't take

54:22

one of those curly fries, and if they don't take,

54:24

you got to use Thomas here to

54:27

properly represent what I said. You can

54:29

take those curly fries and insert it into your anus and then put

54:31

it back into the carton. End quote.

54:33

How do you write all of that without a comma? Do

54:36

I need to explain how incredibly egregious this is? Do

54:38

you really think this is okay? To be inciting

54:40

such acts of vile hatred from your followers, disgusting.

54:43

As a responsible tax paying adult who occasionally uses

54:45

delivery services like these, I find this to be

54:47

an unforgivable incident. And I am shocked and appalled

54:49

to hear these things come from your mouth. I'm

54:51

trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here and

54:53

I honestly see no way of wriggling out

54:55

of this one. So please help me

54:58

try and understand and please help me fight back against

55:00

the urge to not only unsubscribe but to contact the

55:02

proper authorities. Jason. Jason.

55:05

Jason. What authorities are you going to contact? What

55:09

do you, deconstruct what you're saying to me right

55:11

now? Jason. The

55:13

internet police. Jason. Jason. Hit

55:17

the Jason button. Jason.

55:21

Press X to Jason. Exactly, press

55:23

X to Jason. You're

55:26

acting like I wish you were lost

55:28

in the mall like Jason was in

55:30

heavy rain because my

55:34

suggestions do

55:36

not equal like

55:40

reality. I can

55:42

say whatever I want and you

55:44

doing the act is still you doing the act.

55:46

Do you not take any, so if

55:49

the DoorDash driver which I guarantee you has already thought about

55:51

all the different ways they can fuck with your food because

55:53

they deal with assholes all day. They

55:56

don't need any ideas for me but if I

55:58

said DoorDash drivers you should take... the

56:00

curly fry from Arby's and tickle your asshole

56:02

with it and then put it back in

56:04

the cart and That's my free

56:06

speech Yeah, this is

56:09

the United States So

56:13

go ahead and call the authorities maybe you

56:15

should call the fucking clown University go back to it.

56:17

Oh Is

56:19

that our clown college is real

56:22

is that real? There must be

56:24

a place where you're trained to be a clown because

56:26

I heard that the I know what I know exactly

56:28

You mean where it's like I there must be but

56:30

at the same time like I cannot I've never like

56:32

driven by like, you know Oh

56:35

Pasadena clown college You

56:37

know, like I've never seen that about clown Schools

56:45

in the US What is

56:48

without borders calm? Let's see. That

56:50

is a wild school in the US

56:52

includes insider reviews Wow

56:57

This clowns emplations questions to help you

56:59

find your best Your

57:01

best fit clown school. I just think you alright. So

57:03

here's my honest opinion about this We

57:08

don't need clowns anymore Right,

57:10

of course. Yeah reality has given us

57:12

more than enough clowns See

57:14

clowns come from an era where there wasn't wasn't

57:17

Nearly this level of clown just

57:19

general clownishness or you just

57:21

didn't know about it because you had no way

57:24

of right Well, that's right. It was more guarded

57:26

and sheltered and localized Yeah,

57:29

so yeah, of course you you live a normal life

57:31

and we go fucking anytown USA Of course, you need

57:33

some doofy looking dude in a white, you

57:35

know white paint on his face Juggling

57:37

bowling pins, but I

57:40

don't feel like I need that now because all I

57:42

can I can just go on Twitter Where

57:45

any number of people are debasing themselves at any

57:47

given time? Right, I

57:49

don't need the clownishness like that

57:52

anymore. It's too literal. It comes from a different

57:54

world It's almost like

57:56

clowns today are almost like making

57:59

fun of by even

58:01

suggesting that you wouldn't be needed

58:03

like your president you know right

58:06

have you were you ever have an irrational fear of clowns

58:08

Sweeney has an has a fear of clowns my

58:11

sister Dana does I don't we used to

58:13

scare the shadow of her intentionally when we were kids based on

58:15

a year of clowns but yeah I

58:17

personally am NOT afraid of

58:19

them I'm confused by them yeah

58:21

there's I would I would put it that like I

58:24

had a deep I would say I had a deeper

58:26

version to them because I remember I would I would

58:28

my my family would take like we

58:30

would walk through like Central Park or whatever and they

58:32

would always be there's all sorts of buskers and performers

58:34

there and I remember this one instance where like it

58:36

was a clown like just sort of like doing

58:39

some I don't know some clown shit

58:43

and I looked at it it was

58:45

like my first cognizant understanding and registering

58:47

that like oh that's a clown and

58:49

I remember distinctly feeling that's not a

58:51

person like

58:53

that's that's like as a child

58:55

with no preconceived biases at all like I

58:57

didn't see clowns in cartoons or like make

58:59

a note of it I just saw a

59:02

clown in the real world and thought that's

59:04

less than a human being right that's interesting

59:07

like that paint

59:09

they they have on the day the forced

59:11

smile and like the pale white that's a

59:13

fucking that's a glitch

59:15

or something like that's not that's something to

59:18

be contained like a free that's not that

59:20

for that clown

59:22

is that I'm a social security number you

59:24

know in my head not

59:26

in my mind no but they

59:28

shouldn't because there's not paying they're probably not making enough

59:31

money to pay into social security anyway so why would

59:33

they even they

59:35

have to live off the grid we

59:37

have a we have at least one

59:39

destitute clown listener who's like

59:42

who's crying right now but he's smiling

59:44

still yeah he looks like

59:48

a Joker henchman yeah it's the first day to Joker

59:50

when he's put when he's putting the

59:52

makeup on he's crying he's crying man

59:56

yeah clown I mean teach their own if

59:58

you want to clown around I'm just saying that that

1:00:01

you don't need to be a clown to clown around, we all know it.

1:00:04

Right. And look at this show. This

1:00:07

is a clown show in

1:00:10

and of itself. Yeah. Clown of the year, nine

1:00:12

years running. I

1:00:14

love that video. Oh man.

1:00:16

All right. That makes that, that, that video, I don't

1:00:19

know if you guys know what circulates from like some

1:00:21

clown documentary that advice did or whatever or something, and

1:00:24

it's just a clip of a guy saying like,

1:00:26

Oh, this is this guy. Clown of the year,

1:00:28

nine years running. And they, someone just clips that and

1:00:30

it's always circulated in sports circles. What

1:00:32

a team loses over and over again. Okay.

1:00:37

All right. Now I have the correction, kind of a correction,

1:00:39

not really correction, but more

1:00:41

information, let's say publicist six one

1:00:43

six wrote in said, Hey,

1:00:45

all just a quick note for you during the

1:00:47

hell divers discussion, Colin asks why the meta is

1:00:50

called that just wanted to let you know, what's an acronym

1:00:52

for most efficient tactical advantage sweats.

1:00:55

Think not using meta strategies and weapons as equivalent

1:00:57

to throwing a match, it's the most annoying thing

1:00:59

when you're just looking for some fun in a

1:01:01

game, take care of it. I didn't know it was an

1:01:03

acronym. Yeah, I didn't

1:01:05

know either. I knew what it meant. Like I knew

1:01:07

the idea that it conveyed, like I knew that it

1:01:10

conveyed the idea of like, Oh yeah, this is like

1:01:12

the best equipment to have for, for whatever, for

1:01:15

whatever situation we're going to embark on, but

1:01:18

I actually didn't know it was a, it's

1:01:20

an actual acronym. It's an

1:01:22

acronym like scuba is an acronym. Like no one

1:01:25

cares that scuba is an acronym because we don't

1:01:27

use it like that anymore, but it is.

1:01:29

Right. Exactly. Yeah. Um, but we just call it

1:01:31

scuba like little S little C and

1:01:33

so on and so forth. So that's

1:01:36

interesting to know. It sounds, this is the kind of

1:01:38

shit that makes me not want to play online games.

1:01:41

It's like, Oh, I don't have the right. Set

1:01:44

up to be in your match. Like I guess that you're right. I

1:01:46

don't want to be with people that don't want to play with me,

1:01:48

but it's, uh, I actually will get into what we're

1:01:50

playing in a little while, but I have not played hell divers all week. I

1:01:53

think I'm kind of, I'm not over it right now, but

1:01:56

I did, I did kind of hit a wall one night

1:01:58

where I'm like, this is the same thing over. and

1:02:00

over and over again at some point. I

1:02:03

need more than this. Yeah. Now

1:02:05

I'm just playing for trophies at this point. So I'm like, okay.

1:02:09

Maybe I'll go back and get them. There's a gold trophy. Well, we'll

1:02:11

save it. We'll save it. I'll get to it. But

1:02:14

publicist, thank you for writing in. I did

1:02:16

want to acknowledge though, and we'll get into a few smaller news

1:02:18

items here now. As we get into what we're playing

1:02:20

in a little while new patch for

1:02:23

Helldivers out over on

1:02:25

Steam. You can read a pretty extensive and

1:02:29

lengthy list of updates and fixes and so on

1:02:31

and so forth. They also have a list of

1:02:33

known issues, which is kind of cool. So things

1:02:35

that they would like to take

1:02:38

a look at, you can check that out. It's minor patches 01.000.100.

1:02:43

I still don't know why companies use

1:02:45

patch note numbers like this because you don't have to. I

1:02:48

know that for a fact. So it's like, why are you

1:02:50

making it? Like, why couldn't it just be a minor patch

1:02:53

1.0 or something? Call

1:02:55

them this patch is kind of controversial

1:02:57

from what I'm seeing online. And I

1:03:02

don't have a lot to say about Helldivers. They talk with the breaker shotgun.

1:03:07

The broken ass shotgun. That's a rule. Yeah. Yeah,

1:03:09

I think they well, that's the problem. A lot

1:03:12

of people are mad because they basically nerfed a

1:03:14

bunch of weapons. They buffed the flamethrower, which is

1:03:16

cool. But the gun that I

1:03:18

was using, the rail gun, it was

1:03:21

kind of like this nice system where you see a

1:03:23

charger. You blow off his legs, the armor on his

1:03:25

legs and you shoot at him. It

1:03:28

just doesn't do anything now against armor. They

1:03:30

just it just flies off. So

1:03:33

it's people are starting to

1:03:35

feel a little frustrated that they include

1:03:37

all these armored enemies

1:03:39

in the game. And they are

1:03:41

only removing ways to combat armored

1:03:44

guys. Yeah, I kind of agree with that from

1:03:46

what I played a little bit last night. I

1:03:49

did go into a match because I always would go in with

1:03:52

a machine gun. Like call down a

1:03:54

machine gun and call down a like

1:03:56

a companion droid or whatever. And

1:03:58

I saw that a lot of people were. using the railgun and so

1:04:01

I called it down one match

1:04:03

and I'm not bragging at all because I'm not good at

1:04:05

the game but I am often the person who killed the

1:04:07

most people or the most enemies in a match. I don't

1:04:09

know why that is. I think it's because of the specific

1:04:11

setup I have where I'm just mowing these smaller enemies

1:04:13

down while people are getting care of the bigger guys

1:04:16

but I switched that out for the railgun. This was

1:04:18

probably the last time I played actually and

1:04:20

I just couldn't use the thing. Like I'm like I saw

1:04:22

what people were doing with it like aiming at the legs

1:04:24

and all that and I just felt like I wasn't doing

1:04:26

anything and then you get to the end

1:04:29

and I killed literally like 35 enemies or something

1:04:31

on my Jesus Christ. Like I might as well not even

1:04:33

been here. So I'm trying to use this fucking

1:04:35

gun. So I don't know. I think it

1:04:37

was obviously before it was updated but I didn't even

1:04:39

know how to do it. I think I've kind of reached my

1:04:41

ceiling in terms of how I'm going to play. Like I found

1:04:43

my build. I think the only thing that I

1:04:45

want to switch out is maybe get rid of the little robot

1:04:48

companion for the shield. Oh

1:04:50

yeah. I nerfed that too. Oh they did? I

1:04:52

don't know how bad. I haven't really used it but I saw

1:04:54

that. That's too bad man. I mean the

1:04:57

game seems, I mean maybe I'm crazy but

1:04:59

the game seems legitimately hard to me. Like

1:05:02

the levels I've been messing only in level

1:05:04

6 and 7 and it goes

1:05:08

up to 8 and 9. I haven't even unlocked those yet. Or

1:05:10

I think I unlocked 8. I just haven't gone to it yet.

1:05:12

And then 7 it gets insane. Like where

1:05:14

I'm like holy fuck. Like there's no way out

1:05:16

of this. We're surrounded by

1:05:18

a million of these different things. Like how much harder do

1:05:20

you need this game to be? This is not even the

1:05:22

hardest difficulty. They better be careful with that shit.

1:05:26

You know, I'll be interested in this anyway. I'm

1:05:28

getting out of myself. Horizon

1:05:32

for Bin West comes

1:05:34

to PC finally as we know March 21st.

1:05:36

It comes by way of

1:05:38

Nixes. We're going to talk about them shortly. But

1:05:41

they released the minimum specs

1:05:43

for the game. Any thoughts

1:05:45

here PC nerds about what they

1:05:48

show us? Very low 720p at 30 frames. Is

1:05:50

that the

1:05:53

way you're going to play it, Dustin? Oh yeah, definitely. You know

1:05:55

I love 30 FPS gaming.

1:05:57

This is 10. 720. At

1:06:00

720 on PC. That's why I play on the PC. Like

1:06:04

the original BioShock. This looks

1:06:06

pretty reasonable to me. The

1:06:08

high settings are set for like 1440p, 60 is 30,

1:06:10

70. And

1:06:14

that doesn't sound too bad to me. But

1:06:17

I mean, so far, the

1:06:19

Nixx's PC ports have all been

1:06:22

pretty well optimized. And the ones that, I mean,

1:06:24

the PlayStation PC ports that haven't been very good

1:06:26

were not done by them. I

1:06:29

think it seems safe, but it's always good. You

1:06:32

can't trust PC releases. Always wait

1:06:35

until at least later in the day of launch day

1:06:37

to know if it's not broken. It

1:06:40

really is a sad reality that that's just a...it

1:06:44

really is not a safe bet at all. Yeah.

1:06:48

Interesting. The

1:06:50

lowest is for storage, still

1:06:52

requires an SSD. Which

1:06:57

is interesting because you could play

1:06:59

Forbidden West on a PS4 with

1:07:02

a mechanical hard drive. But

1:07:04

for PC, they're requiring an SSD. I don't know. Are

1:07:07

either of you going to play Forbidden West on PC? It's probably going to be

1:07:09

beautiful. But I have obviously no interest in

1:07:11

playing it. Maybe if they ever could. I have this fantasy

1:07:13

that they're one day going to connect these games to the

1:07:15

PSN and give them their own set of trophies. In

1:07:18

which case there would be a third way to dip. And

1:07:21

then I'd be in on it again. But

1:07:26

not like this. You guys don't

1:07:28

really like Horizon though because you have no taste. Yeah.

1:07:33

No taste. COVID

1:07:36

eradicated my taste. You

1:07:38

got long COVID. That's why you play all

1:07:41

these bad games. I'm sick

1:07:44

of people judging me for my taste. I have impeccable taste

1:07:46

in video games. Impeccable.

1:07:50

Alright guys. More serious note.

1:07:52

This game Ballattro or Ballattro or whatever it

1:07:54

was that we talked about. I think it's

1:07:56

Ballattro. We talked about this game last week. By

1:07:58

the way this game is sold more than $100. than half a million copies. We

1:08:02

talked about it just because a lot of people were, so

1:08:05

let's recall what was said. I usually

1:08:08

don't just randomly talk about one-off

1:08:10

games or whatever that people write in about because

1:08:13

there's not enough time in the world to do that. But

1:08:15

a bunch of people, when I was going through the notes

1:08:17

last week, I was like, oh, this person wrote

1:08:19

in about this game, Bellatro, and then I'd get like 10

1:08:21

more letters down and it'd be like, oh, another person wrote

1:08:23

in about it. And then I was like, all right, and

1:08:25

then get 20 more down to another person. And

1:08:28

I'm like, all right, I guess I should make note of this game.

1:08:30

And it's cool looking. I

1:08:32

definitely wanna get to it. It's like, damn, there's

1:08:34

just so many games right now. I am personally

1:08:37

overwhelmed. Clarissa, or

1:08:39

I guess it would be, not the Clarissa

1:08:41

era, but Sabrina the Teenage Witch of

1:08:43

all the pancakes or whatever that

1:08:45

she's eating and she's got a lot of things in her hands, you know? Like

1:08:48

that. Clarissa explains it all, right? Yeah, but was it

1:08:50

from Clarissa or was it from Sabrina? That's what I

1:08:52

was saying. Like, it seems like you were older in

1:08:54

that. Yeah, I think that's Sabrina.

1:08:58

I don't know, my memory for that is very suspect.

1:09:01

All right, sport. So, Bellatro.

1:09:05

Something's going on with this game. It's interesting, I don't know if you

1:09:07

guys have paid attention. They wrote about this, at

1:09:10

least the publisher did. Playstack. On

1:09:13

their Twitter account it says, quote, to our amazing fans,

1:09:15

we are aware that Bellatro has been temporarily removed from

1:09:17

sale on a number of digital stores in some countries

1:09:19

on console platforms, meaning that some new customers will be

1:09:21

unable to buy it. Presently, we cannot

1:09:24

estimate with complete confidence which stores it will be

1:09:26

removed from, but our hope is that only a

1:09:28

minority of stores will be affected. We're highly confident

1:09:30

that the game will remain available on PC stores,

1:09:32

including Steam. Anyone who has already purchased the game

1:09:34

will still be able to play it. Please rest assured, we are working

1:09:36

as hard as we can to get the game back on sale as

1:09:38

soon as possible. This is not an issue

1:09:40

with the stores themselves, however, a reaction to an

1:09:42

overnight change to Bellatro's age rating from three plus

1:09:44

to 18 plus by

1:09:46

a ratings board without any advance warning due

1:09:48

to a mistaken belief that the game contains

1:09:51

prominent gambling imagery and material that instructs about

1:09:53

gambling. Bellatro does not allow or

1:09:55

encourage gambling and we fundamentally believe that ratings

1:09:57

decision is unfounded. Bellatro was developed.

1:10:00

by someone who is staunchly anti-gambling and painstaking care

1:10:02

has been taken to ensure that game does not

1:10:04

feature gambling mechanics of any kind. We

1:10:06

are specifically disappointed in the actions of the ratings board

1:10:08

as we specifically addressed this topic with them on October

1:10:10

and were given a 3-plus rating after it had initially

1:10:12

been rated 18-plus. During that specific appeal,

1:10:14

the ratings board assured us, quote, we have reviewed

1:10:17

your product and determined that the disclosure of gambling

1:10:19

themes was unwarranted, end quote. The game content

1:10:21

has not changed since the age rating was amended to a

1:10:23

3-plus. I don't know

1:10:25

if you guys have been paying attention to this. This is pretty

1:10:28

brutal and unfair. Now

1:10:30

it doesn't affect us domestically in the United States as

1:10:32

I understand it. This is not a problem here, but

1:10:35

it is in certain European locales.

1:10:39

Bellatro is fundamentally about playing

1:10:41

cards as I understand it,

1:10:43

but that is different than gambling.

1:10:46

Yeah. And even the nature of gambling, dude, I've

1:10:48

said before on the show and it's a big joke in my

1:10:50

family, I started playing poker when I was like five and six.

1:10:53

I was the youngest of all my neighbor kids and

1:10:55

we would gamble real money, but we had no real

1:10:57

money, so no one cared. It was like a dollar.

1:10:59

This is kind of silly. I

1:11:02

don't like when institutions place themselves in

1:11:04

between products and the market for

1:11:07

arbitrary reasons that are going to cost them.

1:11:11

There's no doubt that people went and looked for the game and will never look

1:11:13

for it again. So I go out there

1:11:15

and then many people will go back and look for it again or buy

1:11:17

it because they want it, but a lot of people won't. Those are lost

1:11:19

sales forever. This is messed up and I'm sorry that this

1:11:21

happened to them, but I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to

1:11:23

it. I just wanted to acknowledge it. That game

1:11:25

is kind of picking up a little bit. It's

1:11:28

a wild story and to be fair, I do think if

1:11:31

what they're saying is true and they have like understood

1:11:34

and confirmed confirmation that

1:11:36

they themselves cleared

1:11:38

it for all those themes, this could potentially

1:11:41

be a pretty good boon for

1:11:43

them in some way. You know what I mean? Like this

1:11:45

controversy because in some ways, it kind of ensures that they're

1:11:47

going to find their way back on the storefronts. It

1:11:50

kind of assures that they're going to get that appeal

1:11:52

back to a three plus and there's going to be a lot

1:11:54

more eyes on it because now there's kind of like a big

1:11:57

to do about it. end

1:12:00

up working in their favor in the long run, but in

1:12:02

the short term, that's a brutal and

1:12:06

really random fucking situation

1:12:08

for a game like this to go through.

1:12:10

The important thing for people to note with

1:12:13

age ratings, and we do this

1:12:15

at Lilymo, all companies do this, is you

1:12:18

pay a certain fee to get rated. And

1:12:21

so like with ESRB, it's like a couple thousand dollars

1:12:23

or something, I think. And you

1:12:26

have to kind of self-present, and

1:12:28

it's done under contract. So

1:12:31

they don't play your game. They

1:12:33

don't touch your game. When the

1:12:35

game is done, you send them a copy of it for

1:12:38

their master library or whatever. You actually have to send a

1:12:40

few copies for their master library. But

1:12:42

you present to them what

1:12:45

would fit into the various categories in an

1:12:47

honest way. So it's like, oh,

1:12:49

is there like drug use? Well,

1:12:51

then you have to like go into that. And alcohol

1:12:53

use. So I use the example that we actually had

1:12:55

a little bit of a problem. It didn't really end

1:12:57

up mattering, but in

1:13:00

Superparals of Baking, which is really aimed

1:13:03

at a younger audience, I

1:13:05

wrote it, it's all poetry. And in the

1:13:07

intro poem, it talks about how one of

1:13:09

their parents is like a bartender because they're

1:13:12

all like culinary related. And

1:13:14

we had to make note of alcohol use. But

1:13:17

we didn't even think to do that or whatever. So that

1:13:19

kind of got caught, which

1:13:22

is cool. Generally speaking, it's like, is there bad

1:13:24

language and so on and so forth. So what's

1:13:27

kind of shitty about this, as I

1:13:29

read it from the outside, and this is just

1:13:31

conjecture, but just based on my own interactions with

1:13:33

these age rating boards is like, they're basically being

1:13:35

kind of tacitly accused of misrepresenting their game.

1:13:39

And that's somewhat serious. And

1:13:41

I don't think that they did. So

1:13:44

it's why you need people that really know what

1:13:46

they're talking about analyzing

1:13:48

these games because you

1:13:51

simply don't find companies intentionally lying about their games

1:13:54

because they would get in massive amount of trouble

1:13:56

without an ESRB rating or a Peggy rating whenever

1:13:58

you can't go in any store. You

1:14:00

can't be sold like at a normal market. I'm not even

1:14:02

sure if you can sell your game independently

1:14:05

without an ESRB rating like legally Because

1:14:09

people have to remember the ESRB was kind of

1:14:11

the make good between the government and the market

1:14:13

So that they wouldn't get involved themselves very similar

1:14:15

to the motion pictures Association of America to rate

1:14:17

movies and rate movie trailers and all that so

1:14:19

I Know

1:14:21

that's kind of a weird tangent But I kind of that's kind

1:14:23

of why I feel bad for them because it's suggesting to them

1:14:25

that they misrepresented Their product when

1:14:28

it seems like the people that are looking at

1:14:30

their product simply doesn't they don't understand it. So

1:14:32

I'm good luck Yeah, and I'm definitely

1:14:34

gonna buy your game at

1:14:36

some point Just again

1:14:39

too many things to play. We're gonna get into a few of those things in a little

1:14:41

while Dustin I was curious

1:14:43

what you thought of this first of all persona was in the

1:14:45

series going all the way back to Revelations

1:14:48

the ps1 original game has

1:14:50

surpassed twenty two point six

1:14:52

million copies sold Across

1:14:55

the entire series which is exceptional So

1:14:57

congratulations to them but I saw push square

1:14:59

report that persona three reload which is doing

1:15:01

very well on the market Selling a lot

1:15:03

of copies and doing well with its scores

1:15:06

is getting a so-called episode ages released in

1:15:08

September as part of an expansion pass So

1:15:12

is this the first time that There

1:15:14

has been an a story expansion for a persona gamer

1:15:16

to persona 5 technically get a story expansion 2 Although

1:15:19

I guess it was part of like a whole new version

1:15:22

of the game So what it seems I don't

1:15:24

know this seems very unusual to me is I'm from the on the

1:15:26

outside I don't I don't know if it is though I'll

1:15:28

save you a little bit from the comments just

1:15:30

because and I know that the name is written

1:15:32

weird, but it's I guess So

1:15:35

I so I guess that it doesn't make sense Not

1:15:39

a word so I assumed it was an actual word Good.

1:15:42

I Being corrected and correcting people

1:15:44

on titles, but I know that some annoying person is

1:15:46

gonna go in the comments But yeah, didn't even correct

1:15:48

callin. We said the name wrong. Yeah. No, I appreciate

1:15:50

that It sucks that you have to worry about

1:15:52

that. But that's true. Yeah, so

1:15:54

with persona traditionally Starting

1:15:57

I believe with persona 3, but I

1:15:59

might not be correct on that.

1:16:01

They've done these new versions that are

1:16:04

re-released, so there's original Persona 3 and

1:16:06

then they did Persona 3 FES. And

1:16:09

then Persona 4, the improved version

1:16:11

with new content was Persona 4 Golden.

1:16:13

They did the same thing with 5

1:16:15

to 5 Royal. Now, Reload

1:16:18

is a bit different since it is a remake

1:16:20

of the original game and includes a lot of

1:16:23

the FES stuff, but it

1:16:25

did not include this

1:16:27

expansion or this kind of...

1:16:29

It's a separate mode to my understanding

1:16:31

because I've not played it that takes

1:16:33

place after the main story. And it

1:16:36

was just originally included in that FES

1:16:38

version on PS2, but for

1:16:40

Reload it was not included and now

1:16:42

being sold as DLC,

1:16:44

which is annoying to some

1:16:47

people and I kind of get it, but

1:16:49

it doesn't really bother me

1:16:51

that much. But in terms of

1:16:53

actual DLC, this is yes, the

1:16:55

first story-based DLC to

1:16:58

come to a Persona game and

1:17:00

they're doing it in this expansion pass format,

1:17:03

which is really annoying to me because they're

1:17:05

doing it in three waves and basically

1:17:08

wave 1 is background music changes,

1:17:11

wave 2 is more background

1:17:13

music and new costumes. And

1:17:15

then wave 3 is the actual DLC. I

1:17:18

have no interest in owning any of

1:17:20

that other bullshit. So I

1:17:23

don't know if I can buy

1:17:25

just the DLC, the wave

1:17:27

3 episode I guess on its own. I hope

1:17:29

so, but it's exciting

1:17:31

for me just because I really wanted

1:17:33

to play. Now

1:17:35

that I've beaten the game, I know that there's this

1:17:38

epilogue thing that wasn't available to me. It

1:17:40

already seemed like this was going to happen.

1:17:42

People had data mined the files and found

1:17:44

evidence that they were going to do this.

1:17:46

So it's not a surprise, but it's a

1:17:49

welcome announcement either way,

1:17:51

just because I loved

1:17:54

Persona 3 Reload, one of my favorite games of the year. And

1:17:57

I'm so curious about this DLC. that

1:18:00

many people said was really, really awesome

1:18:02

in the original. Well,

1:18:04

congratulations to Atlas for 22.6

1:18:07

million copies. You

1:18:09

have, let me think here. Certainly

1:18:12

Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are both well above

1:18:14

that, but that might be number

1:18:18

three, the only competitor in the JRPG

1:18:20

space would be Tales. Like

1:18:23

to reach that number and there are many more Tales

1:18:25

games, but I don't really

1:18:27

know if they've ever said that Tales would have sold more

1:18:29

than 22.6 million copies. So they're either being

1:18:31

third or fourth place in the genre, which is very

1:18:34

impressive for such a small, I

1:18:36

mean, they're obviously with Sega now, but they weren't always in it. They

1:18:39

kept trucking and it's just

1:18:42

amazing watching this thing turn into a, I remember,

1:18:44

I've said it before that when I was a journalist,

1:18:47

I remember when Persona 5 was announced with that image,

1:18:50

with the red image with the, it was like the

1:18:52

seats in the classroom or something in like the jail

1:18:55

kind of thematic sort of thing going on. And

1:18:57

that was like a huge story. And people were

1:18:59

just, Anthony could tell that

1:19:01

Persona was about to pop off. All

1:19:03

right. I didn't really

1:19:06

know if we were going to talk about this or not, but many people

1:19:08

wrote in about this, many, many, many people. So

1:19:10

let's go to Kale Eng. He

1:19:12

says, Hey, Sacred Sims, it's been a while since I wrote

1:19:14

in. I hope everyone is doing much better than the news

1:19:16

here. It was recently announced that Rooster

1:19:18

Teeth is shutting down. I remember the

1:19:21

early days where I enjoyed videos of Red versus

1:19:23

Blue, Ruby and Death Battle. On

1:19:25

top of the shows, Rooster Teeth also owned

1:19:27

a few subsidiaries like Funhouse, Inside Gaming and

1:19:29

other former machinima shows. What do you

1:19:31

guys make of this announcement? What do you think ultimately

1:19:33

doomed Rooster Teeth? Is this a

1:19:35

sign post for other internet media companies? What

1:19:37

lessons will slither out of this destruction of

1:19:40

this once relevant internet giant? Keep

1:19:42

up the great work. So Variety

1:19:45

is the place, variety.com. Broke

1:19:48

this news. And they wrote

1:19:51

that they're shutting down after 21 years. There

1:19:53

will be some surviving shows from their network,

1:19:55

I guess for now, but all 150 people

1:19:58

that work there. are going to be

1:20:00

laid off and it's kind of the

1:20:02

end of a notorious, I don't

1:20:04

know, notorious is not the right word, that

1:20:07

indicates it's bad, a famous brand. And

1:20:09

one that I have personal and business connections to going

1:20:12

back quite a ways and I'll talk about all that.

1:20:15

But yeah, I'm curious what you guys think of Rooster Teeth

1:20:17

going away. It does seem like the end of an era

1:20:19

in some way. Rooster Teeth was a very relevant brand, but

1:20:21

when you read the Variety story and Chris will go to

1:20:23

you first, what becomes

1:20:26

obvious is that Rooster Teeth has

1:20:28

been mega unprofitable

1:20:30

for a very long time, has not

1:20:32

made money in years and

1:20:35

way over hired and way overshot. And

1:20:37

knowing what I know about the company and my own interactions with

1:20:40

it, I believe that. So it's like

1:20:42

the most believable thing in the world that they're over their skis.

1:20:45

So what are your thoughts, especially from a YouTube front

1:20:47

since you are a YouTuber? Yeah.

1:20:50

I mean, to be transparent, I

1:20:52

do know some people who worked at

1:20:55

Rooster Teeth and who are now not

1:20:57

a handful of people who

1:20:59

are very, very cool. And I like them a

1:21:02

great deal. But yeah, man, Rooster

1:21:05

Teeth was a big deal in high

1:21:08

school for me because it was the first time,

1:21:10

when I stumbled across Red vs. Blue, it was

1:21:12

the first time that I had considered like, oh,

1:21:15

you can make movies in video

1:21:17

games. And that's like something that

1:21:19

people will watch. And that's kind

1:21:22

of amazing. That's

1:21:26

insane, really, because I remember really wanting to

1:21:28

make movies at that time. But

1:21:30

not having like, I don't have equipment, I don't have access

1:21:33

to special effects or explosions. The

1:21:35

editing software that exists now on

1:21:38

your phone is like

1:21:40

eons ahead of anything that I had

1:21:42

access to on a full desktop PC as

1:21:45

a kid. So I remember thinking like, oh, this is like a

1:21:47

cheat code where you can use video games because

1:21:49

there's game engines with explosions and vehicles and

1:21:51

weapons and free floating cameras. And

1:21:54

it's like, this is actually really interesting. And that's

1:21:56

how I started making stuff on YouTube

1:21:58

was really... shitty machinimas

1:22:00

that I would never post today.

1:22:04

But I was like 11 or

1:22:06

whatever. But the yeah,

1:22:08

so they were pretty instrumental to

1:22:10

me even starting

1:22:12

on YouTube. There were other

1:22:14

influences too, but they were no doubt really huge.

1:22:19

Obviously, Red versus Blue is a big deal.

1:22:21

I fell off of it kind of like

1:22:23

around 2014. Personally, they acquired

1:22:26

some people from machinima

1:22:28

that I had really appreciated, the inside

1:22:30

gaming guys, who I

1:22:32

thought were just so ahead of their time funny. And

1:22:36

that was like a cool move. That was nice to see

1:22:38

that. But I just sort of fell

1:22:40

off as I started making my own content. I

1:22:43

just sort of all the

1:22:45

stuff that I was watching kind of fell by the

1:22:47

wayside just to pursue that. But yeah, it's a highly

1:22:49

relevant brand for me. So I mean, it's sad to

1:22:51

see it at the same time, not

1:22:54

necessarily surprised by this. And

1:22:56

I was actually listening to Bernie

1:22:58

Burns. He was

1:23:01

like one of the I think he's like the founder of

1:23:03

of received a book. He was he named the

1:23:06

company. I know that. He was always

1:23:08

somebody that I from

1:23:11

his appearances on the podcast and just like what he did

1:23:13

with that company. I was admired and

1:23:16

was very interested in. And

1:23:18

I remember when he left, he left many, many years

1:23:21

ago. And he has a new like morning show now

1:23:23

called like morning somewhere, where he talked about

1:23:25

it. And apparently, there's like some

1:23:27

good severance stuff going on from wv

1:23:30

for some people. So that's that's good. Like they seem

1:23:32

to be doing a decent job of like taking care

1:23:34

of some of the people at the very least, who

1:23:36

have been let go. But yeah, it's

1:23:40

just, they haven't

1:23:42

been relevant to me for a while.

1:23:44

It's not necessarily surprising. There were a lot

1:23:46

of scandals, by the way, in the last

1:23:48

couple years, the last like four years in

1:23:50

particular, where there are some really, some

1:23:53

really unsavory stories that I won't get into now

1:23:55

because I don't know if I

1:23:57

don't want to say I don't want to say anything that I would have to

1:23:59

preface with a But all

1:24:01

that information is, you know, you can look it

1:24:03

up. It's unfortunate.

1:24:06

It's always sad when a bunch

1:24:08

of people lose their jobs. But,

1:24:12

you know, hopefully that hopefully the people there who

1:24:14

were making art that

1:24:16

resonated with people can go on to continue

1:24:19

doing that. And hopefully if there's any shows

1:24:21

that are still

1:24:23

in the works, hopefully they make maybe they

1:24:25

can get a final season wrap up or

1:24:28

some closure. I

1:24:30

know they're shopping. I know Warner Brothers is shopping around some

1:24:32

of those IP like Ruby and some

1:24:35

other things. So there's hope for

1:24:37

that. But yeah, it's sad. What

1:24:41

do you think, Dustin? What are your thoughts?

1:24:43

Yeah. Well, just to elaborate on one thing

1:24:45

Chris said, because I kind of had the

1:24:47

same experience where I remember what was so

1:24:50

cool about Red versus Blue is that there

1:24:52

were tons of videos

1:24:55

on the Internet that were stupid. You

1:24:58

know, like YouTube poop or whatever, like random

1:25:00

Halo stuff or like short 30 second

1:25:02

thing. And Red versus Blue

1:25:05

was so incredibly unique because it was

1:25:07

an actual show with characters and

1:25:09

a plot and a story just

1:25:12

made within Halo. And

1:25:14

at the time it was like, man, how do

1:25:16

you even think of doing something like that? And it's

1:25:18

so funny just because it's by this, this

1:25:21

like random thing that in Halo, if your

1:25:23

character looks all the way down, their head

1:25:25

looks up. So maybe

1:25:27

we can when you when you look up

1:25:29

and down, when your character is looking all the way down, it kind

1:25:31

of looks like their heads bobbing like they're talking. And then an entire

1:25:34

show is born out of that. So

1:25:38

definitely in that

1:25:40

terms, like extremely influential, not necessarily

1:25:43

to me in what I wanted to do, but

1:25:45

just opening to my eyes about like, whoa, this

1:25:47

kind of stuff is possible. People

1:25:50

are creating actual content

1:25:53

online where you want to tune in and see the next episode. The

1:25:57

thing about Rooster Teeth as a company, and this is... This

1:26:00

is purely just my outsider looking

1:26:04

at what I've seen and not really

1:26:06

following them is that I

1:26:10

feel like I stopped hearing about them once

1:26:12

they got sold. Yeah.

1:26:16

And it was funny when we were talking about this in the

1:26:18

staff chat, I think I said that I

1:26:20

kind of forgot they even existed for

1:26:23

the last few years. And then

1:26:25

I realized like, oh, the last time I heard about

1:26:27

Red versus Blue or not Red versus Blue, but Rooster

1:26:29

Teeth, other than that logo change

1:26:31

that everyone hated was them

1:26:34

getting sold. And I particularly

1:26:36

remember listening to them talk

1:26:38

about it, like nothing's going to change. The

1:26:41

people we're selling to are really cool. We're

1:26:43

going to keep doing our thing. And

1:26:46

I don't know if that's the case. Maybe

1:26:48

things change. Maybe they didn't. Like I said, I wasn't

1:26:50

really tuned into their content, but there

1:26:52

is something to be said about them

1:26:55

going away from being independent

1:26:58

seemingly to me was the beginning

1:27:00

of the end. And so

1:27:03

it's unfortunate and it sucks for all the people

1:27:05

that worked there and are losing their

1:27:07

jobs. So there's a lot of good

1:27:09

talent out there because the stuff they made was

1:27:11

high quality. I mean, Ruby, Ruby is probably one

1:27:14

of their most surprising successes in that it

1:27:16

was this Western made anime

1:27:18

style CG show that really

1:27:21

took off. And that's really

1:27:23

not that common for

1:27:25

a team in Texas to make something

1:27:28

that competes on that level. It's

1:27:30

pretty crazy. So definitely forerunners

1:27:33

in the space of not just online content,

1:27:36

but in a lot of different types of

1:27:38

content. Yeah, I

1:27:41

haven't thought... I don't really think

1:27:43

about Rooster Teeth either. The

1:27:47

weird reality is that because I came from old

1:27:50

school, well, I came from the second generation of

1:27:52

press, not print media, which was killed

1:27:54

by online media. I was part of the

1:27:56

online media generation. And we looked

1:27:58

at Rooster Teeth and others. when I was at

1:28:00

IGN as competitors, but kind

1:28:02

of not really relevant to what we were doing. And I

1:28:04

just wasn't very familiar with it. I wasn't into YouTube at

1:28:06

the time. And they

1:28:08

sold themselves to Fullscreen in 2014, which

1:28:11

was a wise move on their part, made lots

1:28:13

of money, made the founders all millionaires. I

1:28:16

think there were like seven or eight of them. And when

1:28:18

I co-founded Kind of Funny, we found

1:28:20

ourselves in the orbit of Rooster Teeth

1:28:22

very quickly because one of our co-founders

1:28:24

was obsessed with the company and wanted

1:28:26

to really make

1:28:29

Kind of Funny a Rooster Teeth-like company,

1:28:31

which I was against simply

1:28:33

from a size point of view. Like

1:28:35

I was like, I don't really, that's not what I

1:28:37

really want to do with my life. But we

1:28:39

were in with them. And I must say that there

1:28:41

were a lot of interesting positives, including personally, like

1:28:43

there's a lot of really

1:28:46

nice people there. Like I knew Bernie personally,

1:28:48

and he was always very nice to

1:28:50

me. Jeff

1:28:53

Ramsey was always really nice to me.

1:28:56

Gus was always nice to me. There

1:28:58

were some people that were less than nice to me, especially

1:29:00

after what went down with me in Kind of Funny. That

1:29:02

guy Blaine, for instance, like went after me for I don't

1:29:04

know, whatever, and others. But

1:29:07

generally speaking, I had like really pleasant

1:29:09

experiences with a lot of people there.

1:29:13

And Kind of Funny was associated with them as

1:29:15

kind of like an orbiting moon where like they didn't own

1:29:17

us, but they were selling our merch that we were kind

1:29:19

of in the Let's Play family. They

1:29:21

were, I think, selling our ads for us at some point

1:29:24

and so on and so forth. And

1:29:26

we used to go down there to Austin

1:29:29

to their headquarters like fairly

1:29:31

often. I ended up going there like four times,

1:29:33

I think, in my short time at Kind of

1:29:35

Funny to film things

1:29:37

and like go to meetings and all of that.

1:29:39

And I guess reading the news about them and

1:29:41

like the reality of their finances makes it a

1:29:44

lot more clear that my instincts about them were

1:29:46

as a business were right, which was,

1:29:50

I could be wrong about this. It could be just

1:29:52

be a massive warehouse space or whatever, but

1:29:55

I think that Maroussouffi's headquarters is like

1:29:57

an old airport or like some

1:29:59

like. It was an old airport

1:30:01

hangar. Right. And

1:30:04

this was like an extensive

1:30:06

space, like an extensive series

1:30:08

of buildings and like acres

1:30:10

and acres and acres and acres of land, just

1:30:13

like labyrinthine paths to all

1:30:15

these different locations. And

1:30:17

I remember thinking in my head like, who's

1:30:20

paying for this? Like

1:30:23

it's an incredibly cool thing to have all of

1:30:25

this space, but like why do you need all

1:30:29

of this space? And then I remember going in to one

1:30:31

of their buildings where Ruby was made. And

1:30:36

in my experience, where Ruby was made, it looks like

1:30:38

a game dev studio, like just scores

1:30:40

of people. And I'm like, where,

1:30:43

what's going on here? Like I don't understand. And then

1:30:45

you would go to this huge warehouse set with

1:30:48

all these roving sets. And I'm like, you guys do all

1:30:50

this for a podcast? And

1:30:54

it's not to be a dickhead, but my instincts on

1:30:56

the financial front were totally right. Because if the variety's

1:30:58

reporting is true from the moment Fullscreen bought them in

1:31:01

2014, so before I had anything that, you know, kind

1:31:03

of funny or anything, I had anything to do with

1:31:05

them, they would never made another dollar of

1:31:07

profit. And

1:31:10

you could see it. And I

1:31:12

remember thinking at the time, like this seems so

1:31:14

out of whack with what I think we're trying

1:31:16

to do. Now I was wrong about

1:31:18

what we were trying to do at that time. It's

1:31:21

not like this is more what I had

1:31:23

envisioned, something very small. And

1:31:28

I guess what I'm saying is, is that Rooster Teeth

1:31:30

is emblematic of this idea that you can corporatize

1:31:33

something that is

1:31:35

generally and genuinely

1:31:38

revolved around personalities,

1:31:40

very specific personalities, and

1:31:42

think you can mechanize it like it's

1:31:44

a factory or a

1:31:47

conveyor belt of goods that come off of it.

1:31:50

And the reality is that the vibe I

1:31:52

got going there, and again, it's not the people, like the

1:31:55

people there were sweet, it's just

1:31:57

the model. It's like

1:31:59

we're not superstars. This isn't Hollywood.

1:32:02

What is this? You know, I don't

1:32:04

understand what the point of this is. And

1:32:08

it's kind of a bummer looking back how much that

1:32:10

infected a vision that I had for something else when

1:32:13

my instinct seems to have been the right one, you

1:32:16

know? Like long term, if you want to keep something

1:32:18

long term, like, and the sanctity

1:32:20

of it. I don't know, I didn't mean to interrupt

1:32:22

you. No, no, I mean, I interrupted

1:32:25

you. I think, yeah, they just,

1:32:27

they got too big, I think. I

1:32:30

remember feeling that it's at a certain point. And

1:32:32

yeah, it's not like anything to do with the people,

1:32:34

actually. I like a lot of the people who were

1:32:37

there. I don't know about now. It's a very different

1:32:39

company now. I

1:32:41

mean, I think, you know, Bernie left.

1:32:43

I remember when Bernie left, I was like, all right. But

1:32:47

I think they were like at, they were at where they should

1:32:49

have been, I think around Maybe

1:32:54

2014 was like around the time where I felt

1:32:56

like they still had like a

1:32:58

big space and they were still like, but it felt

1:33:01

like, it felt like it made sense to

1:33:03

me. Like the scale they were operating on,

1:33:05

their left plays were like very kind of, they felt

1:33:07

like kind of homebrew. It was all in one room

1:33:09

and it was like an office kind

1:33:12

of, it just seemed more

1:33:14

reasonable. And then it started to

1:33:16

kind of get to like, oh, they started having videos

1:33:18

where it's like, okay, here's this big studio. Here's

1:33:21

this giant building. And I'm like, I don't know. How

1:33:26

many people did you hire? You probably don't

1:33:28

need like as many people as you've hired,

1:33:30

I think. These

1:33:33

are, it's wild. It's wild seeing all

1:33:35

that stuff because like some of my favorites, like

1:33:38

I mean, Ray and Michael and Gavin and those

1:33:40

people, like I remember, the first podcast that I

1:33:42

listened to, I remember specifically because I remember feeling

1:33:44

like, oh, this is like, this is

1:33:47

actually like sitting and almost

1:33:51

like engaging with like a group of friends who

1:33:53

are genuinely having a fun time talking to each

1:33:55

other. And it's kind of like the vibe that I

1:33:57

wanted to Star Tank to be too. It's kind of like the model. in

1:34:00

some way. But yeah,

1:34:02

man, they just I remember I checked it back, I checked back

1:34:04

recently. And I'm like, I don't know any of these people now.

1:34:08

I don't know who the fuck is on this show. Yeah,

1:34:10

like I just I just I don't

1:34:12

know, man. Like, it

1:34:14

comes off to me like things like this

1:34:17

ultimately come off to me more like vanity

1:34:19

projects, because how can you run

1:34:21

something for so long without making any

1:34:24

money and not

1:34:28

kind of craft it in such a way that

1:34:30

it can be sustainable. I was I was in

1:34:32

our discord talking about it. I'm like, there's

1:34:34

so much interesting information in the variety of these things. I

1:34:36

never knew about the company, right? They

1:34:38

have 60,000

1:34:40

paying subscribers a month, paying like $6 a month, this

1:34:42

is $360,000 a month. And just subscriptions.

1:34:48

It's like, dude, if you had

1:34:50

a lean 25 or 30 person company making

1:34:53

great podcast products and all that and really

1:34:55

focused in on on that

1:34:57

60,000 people, how could you not make money

1:34:59

doing that? How is it even possible that

1:35:01

you would not make money with 60,000 people

1:35:04

and then you realize, well, that's down 75%

1:35:06

from their all time high of having like 250,000 paying subscribers. So

1:35:09

that's interesting. So the company is collapsing in some way. But

1:35:12

still you adjust and then you see the headcount

1:35:15

at the most they had 400 people.

1:35:18

Dude, what do

1:35:21

you need that many people for? And

1:35:23

now they have a they are at the time of all these

1:35:25

laughs, it was down to 150. And it's like, I

1:35:28

don't know what you think you're doing. But

1:35:31

you're making video game content and you got to

1:35:33

do it in a more lean

1:35:35

way. And by the way, you can do it in a

1:35:37

more lean way and pay people better too. Some

1:35:39

people are making a lot of money, a lot of them weren't.

1:35:46

Unless you were like high level talent, from what I understand, it's like we

1:35:48

were making way more money and kind of funny than like a lot of

1:35:50

the talent was there. So it

1:35:52

wasn't like everyone was getting rich

1:35:54

or something like that. And

1:35:57

then it kind of puts in the question, I brought this up in the past,

1:35:59

but... Just to flip and see with money, I've

1:36:02

said before that one of the strangest things that

1:36:04

happened to me at Kind of

1:36:06

Funny with Rooster Teeth specifically, and the guys will remember

1:36:08

this is they randomly

1:36:11

offered to just invest money into us. I

1:36:13

think it was like $1.4, $1.5 million. It

1:36:17

was going to be in like two payments or something of

1:36:19

$700,000, whatever thousand for no

1:36:21

ownership. It wasn't about that. It

1:36:23

was about to make a...

1:36:26

I remember it being delivered. It was like for you guys to grow

1:36:29

and become the production

1:36:31

company that you envision.

1:36:34

Not understanding that for me personally, I never envisioned that.

1:36:39

It was a strange situation then. I

1:36:41

remember being... I was against it and it never happened.

1:36:45

I don't think I was the only one against it. I think a

1:36:47

lot of people were just like, we don't really need this. Why would

1:36:49

we even... And to be clear, it

1:36:51

was like you pay it back through ad

1:36:53

revenue and ad share and merch and all that, so

1:36:55

that would be paid back over time. At

1:37:00

the time, I think that was 2015, that was weird. Looking

1:37:06

back at it, it's even more weird because now

1:37:08

we know from the variety story that for several

1:37:10

years up to that point, they had made no

1:37:12

money and they just look at everything

1:37:14

as a growth opportunity. It's

1:37:19

such a strange point of view about

1:37:21

small upstart media companies. Why do you

1:37:23

want to mechanize them? How

1:37:25

do you corporateize them? It's like, oh, all you

1:37:27

guys... Oh, you have this very successful fan funded thing.

1:37:29

All you need is more money. It's

1:37:32

like, no, I think we're okay. We're

1:37:35

better than okay. And

1:37:37

that was then. And so I just

1:37:39

think... I'm just

1:37:41

glad I got away from that from a creative point of

1:37:43

view because again, it's not a personal thing. Like, Bernie was

1:37:45

a really sweet guy. Like I said, Jeff, really sweet guy.

1:37:47

They were all really nice. It's just that I think... And

1:37:50

I'm not even sure it was really them. It was probably the

1:37:52

people that they had sold to who then sold to Warner where

1:37:54

it's like, no, this is a growth thing. We got to

1:37:56

grow and make money. It's a rutacy. We

1:37:59

got to make... That's

1:38:02

a misunderstanding of the entire situation and

1:38:04

how with something leaner and

1:38:07

more focused, they could

1:38:09

have made a lot more people much richer

1:38:11

over time instead of it just being

1:38:15

good money after bad. And that's kind

1:38:17

of the bummer of it. So obviously, we care for the people

1:38:19

that are laid off. Obviously, it's like the

1:38:21

death of a legendary brand, but it goes

1:38:23

so much deeper than that because to the

1:38:25

Kale's inquiry that we read earlier, it does

1:38:29

say something about the

1:38:31

mismanagement of media enterprises in

1:38:33

this space. And we

1:38:35

saw that with G4 as well. It's like what

1:38:38

universe was

1:38:40

the G4 you envisioned coming back? What

1:38:43

universe was that going to happen? Maybe

1:38:45

where they had over 200 people working there. It's

1:38:48

like maybe for 20 people a

1:38:52

show a day or something. And

1:38:56

people just don't know what they're doing. And

1:38:59

I'm glad that people that founded Rooster Teeth got their money,

1:39:01

which they did. So cool.

1:39:04

Yeah. They seemed like even

1:39:07

just from the transparency of some of their

1:39:09

shows, those guys seemed like

1:39:11

really chill people that I really

1:39:13

respected. But yeah, I don't know,

1:39:16

man. I think there's like this attitude of bloat

1:39:19

is better than lean that

1:39:21

is kind of infecting a lot of things. I don't

1:39:24

even think it's necessarily like a recent thing. I think it's

1:39:26

been happening for a while. But

1:39:29

I think it's probably like the poisoning of just what business

1:39:32

has become where it's like everything needs to be

1:39:34

a growth opportunity. Everything needs to grow, grow, grow,

1:39:36

grow, grow. Oh, we made $2 billion this

1:39:38

year, but we made $1.5 billion this year. So

1:39:44

like the $2 billion doesn't count anymore

1:39:46

because we've gone down. It's

1:39:49

like just make your money and

1:39:52

be lean. And I don't...

1:39:55

There's like such a self-sabotaging nature about

1:39:57

it. I don't get it why you

1:39:59

can't just like... Let your good thing be the

1:40:01

good thing. Why does it

1:40:03

have to evolve? Be

1:40:06

like Ash Ketchum and

1:40:08

understand that he doesn't need a Raichu. Yeah.

1:40:13

Well said. Yeah.

1:40:16

I just, I don't know, man, I'm

1:40:18

so fascinated in the business part of the industry and

1:40:22

I just, I'm so tired of seeing bad decisions made

1:40:24

with over years with

1:40:27

just one time sustainable,

1:40:29

one time interesting products. Some, everything

1:40:32

dies. This will die. The

1:40:34

show and this brand will die one day. It just

1:40:36

like Rooster Teeth has gone away. And

1:40:38

just like many other brands that we once thought wouldn't

1:40:40

go away, but hopefully it's

1:40:42

not from bad decision-making. I

1:40:45

can accept atrophy like

1:40:47

an age and time passing. That's just the way

1:40:50

it goes. That, that, that comes for everyone. There

1:40:53

are things that we'll never think of again,

1:40:55

and maybe this will be one of

1:40:57

those things in a hundred years, this podcast. Certainly it probably

1:41:00

will be, you know? Yeah. I

1:41:02

can accept that. I just don't want to put

1:41:05

things in the early graves when they didn't need to be there.

1:41:08

That happens way too often.

1:41:10

There are some shambling corpses that should already be

1:41:12

in their grave, but more often than not, I

1:41:15

find that you find some interesting brands going

1:41:17

away from just not

1:41:19

understanding what time it is. And

1:41:21

that's, that's a shame because that's,

1:41:24

that's unnatural. That's like a self-forced

1:41:26

injury. Right. That didn't need

1:41:28

to exist. Rooster,

1:41:31

there's so if Rooster Teeth was just handled by

1:41:33

better arbiters, it wouldn't have come to this. There's

1:41:35

just no way it could have. How could it

1:41:37

have come to this? Man,

1:41:41

oh man. How does a company let

1:41:43

an entity run in the red for 10

1:41:45

plus years? How

1:41:48

is that even possible? Where did the money come from? My

1:41:52

God, if you're running in the red that long, man,

1:41:57

they must have fucking when they, when fullscreen bought them and

1:41:59

then they just started. losing money, they must have

1:42:01

been freaking out. And what was even more interesting

1:42:03

was just how hard-headed a lot of their decision-making

1:42:05

was. Like finding out from the

1:42:07

variety piece that they never made money on RTX, it was

1:42:09

always losing money. Like why did you

1:42:11

keep doing it? Why

1:42:14

did you keep doing these things?

1:42:17

Let's play live in all these things. How are

1:42:19

you not making money from that, but we're making

1:42:21

money from fucking 500-person shows in New York

1:42:24

City? How is that possible?

1:42:27

Unless you are so over-leveraged in some way.

1:42:30

Yup. That's uh. It's that

1:42:33

overhead man. It's like hey, we gotta have this giant, we

1:42:35

gotta have 50,000 acres of buildings so that

1:42:42

we can record less plays on them. And it comes

1:42:44

off as like a form of forced legitimization. It's like

1:42:46

we're only legitimate when we reach this point. We're only

1:42:48

legitimate when we have a studio. We're only legitimate when

1:42:50

we have this. We're only legitimate when we have a

1:42:53

parent. It's like give me a break dude. If

1:42:57

that's the definition of legitimacy, I never want that. Because

1:42:59

I'm just happy making our money

1:43:01

and doing our thing and doing well and

1:43:03

not needing more than what I have. I'm

1:43:05

good. I really am. Yeah, like. This

1:43:12

mentality of like you said of constant growth is

1:43:14

kind of despicable. Yeah. But

1:43:16

it is what it is. RIP,

1:43:18

bruise your teeth. Yeah. RIP

1:43:21

in peace. It's a good thing we don't have to worry

1:43:23

about that mentality of constant growth in the gaming industry, am I right

1:43:25

fellas? I know. Alright,

1:43:29

let's get to what we're playing. It

1:43:31

says here, Chris, you are

1:43:33

still hell diving? Yeah, I just, yeah,

1:43:36

I haven't played

1:43:38

much. I played a little bit of hell diving. It's kind

1:43:40

of my go to game right now just because my friends

1:43:42

are on super late and it's like, hey, I'll get on

1:43:45

a game or two. I don't

1:43:47

know what it is lately, Colin, but maybe it's

1:43:49

just like, maybe it's just melancholy that you're talking

1:43:51

about. Like, I don't, I'm not in the mood

1:43:53