0:00

Well, hello there. How

0:00

are you? You're very welcome to

0:02

Tallaght library. You're very

0:02

welcome online as well. Thank

0:05

you so much to everybody for

0:05

joining us. I know it's that

0:07

time of the evening, it's seven

0:07

o'clock and if you've smaller

0:10

children at home, we're trying

0:10

to get everybody organized for

0:12

baths and beds upstairs,

0:12

downstairs, the older ones are

0:14

maybe doing homework. So I

0:14

really appreciate you taking the

0:16

time to join us online. And

0:16

thank you so much to everybody

0:19

who's joined us at Tallaght

0:19

library, with safefood. My name

0:22

is Suzanne Kane, I'm your host

0:22

for this evening. I'm merely

0:25

here to moderate and to maybe

0:25

give some of my questions that I

0:28

have. I've been an ambassador

0:28

for the make a START campaign.

0:39

I have a two year old at home, I

0:39

have a six year old and an eight

0:42

year old. So for us, it's bang

0:42

on where we are. It's trying to

0:45

wrestle those healthy eating

0:45

habits, keeping them going and

0:49

persevering when things kind of

0:49

feel like you know what, what's

0:51

easiest here for me is maybe just to give them a chocolate bar and we can all move on. But

0:53

it's trying to persevere with

0:55

that. Navigating being a parent

0:55

because it's never easy. No day

1:00

is easy. I work full time. My

1:00

husband works full time. I'm

1:04

here this evening with you, which comes with childcare which you all understand and

1:06

navigating all those things. So

1:08

I think sometimes, as parents we

1:08

forget maybe to talk to each

1:12

other or to even just give each

1:12

other that look and go I have

1:14

got you. You're very visible to

1:14

me and then sometimes reaching

1:19

out and asking the experts those

1:19

questions. Which leads me nicely

1:23

into our experts for this

1:23

evening, Dr. Aileen McGloin who

1:27

is the head of nutrition with

1:27

safefood. You're very welcome.

1:30

Thank you so much for joining

1:30

us. And Dr. Colman doctor who's

1:34

a child psychotherapist, is that

1:34

correct?

1:36

Correct. Yes.

1:36

Can I call you Colman?

1:36

Or do I call you Dr. Colman?

1:39

Colman.

1:41

Aileen, tell us a little bit about the campaign and about this evening for

1:43

safefood.

1:45

Yes, I just want to add

1:45

to your welcome. So welcome here

1:48

to Tallaght library. It's a

1:48

privilege to be here. I want to

1:51

welcome you on behalf of

1:51

safefood and libraries Ireland.

1:55

We're going to talk about how we

1:55

start making healthy changes. A

1:59

little bit about the challenges

1:59

that people face. And I'm sure

2:01

you're all familiar with those.

2:01

And then how you stick with

2:04

that. We very much want this to

2:04

be parent led this evening. So

2:08

to everybody in the room, please

2:08

ask your questions. To everybody

2:11

who's joining us online, you can

2:11

put your questions up online as

2:15

well and Suzanne can receive

2:15

them here at the table. So, it's

2:18

all about answering the questions this evening.

2:20

Yes, it's just a great

2:20

thing saying that out loud. Like

2:22

I know, sometimes when you're sitting in a room, as we go along, you'll feel a little bit

2:24

more comfortable and have those questions. And obviously, we are

2:26

online, there's lots of people

2:29

joining us online. You don't

2:29

need to go into the finer

2:31

details. But if there's a

2:31

broader question, that's what

2:33

we'd love to hear, rather than drilling down into [more specific topics].So are we happy

2:36

enough to dive right in? But at

2:43

any point pop up your hands, one

2:43

of the guys from safefood will

2:46

come and answer a question. Or

2:46

if you're online, please feel

2:49

free to jump on and enjoy the

2:49

conversation because that's what

2:51

it is. It's not us talking at

2:51

you guys. It is very much all of

2:55

us having a lovely conversation

2:55

together and supporting each

2:58

other as parents and carers and

2:58

guardians. So I think probably

3:01

getting started Aileen and

3:01

Colman, one of the first things,

3:03

and I spoke about the make a

3:03

START campaign, everything is

3:06

online at makeastart.ie , they

3:06

can jump on there. Making

3:10

healthy lifestyle changes as a

3:10

parent, sometimes you'll say,

3:15

alright, I need to get stuck

3:15

into this and come Monday

3:17

morning, we're gonna start doing

3:17

that. The very start of the easy

3:21

steps of getting going is making

3:21

the decision to do as I said,

3:24

you can jump on to

3:24

makeastart.ie. We're then

3:27

getting into the day to day

3:27

living, of managing that in your

3:30

life. What advice would you have

3:30

for parents this evening with

3:33

that?

3:33

Yes, so you've hit the

3:33

nail on the head there. The

3:36

START campaign is all about

3:36

these small, manageable changes.

3:40

So when we're talking about

3:40

making changes, I think

3:43

sometimes when we speak to

3:43

parents, it's incredibly

3:46

daunting, like, how would I do

3:46

that. But if you make a decision

3:49

around this, choose the one

3:49

thing that affects your family.

3:52

So it could be that you want to

3:52

switch out the sugary breakfast

3:55

cereals, for something

3:55

healthier, that you want to take

3:58

the sugary drinks off the dinner

3:58

table and switch to water, that

4:03

you want to just start working

4:03

on the treats, but even just

4:06

start with one treat free day if

4:06

you're having treats every day.

4:09

So it's really about breaking

4:09

those changes down and deciding

4:14

what you are going to do as a

4:14

family. Then just keeping it

4:18

small and manageable. There are

4:18

other things you'll need to do,

4:21

then there's a bit of planning.

4:21

So if you're not having treats

4:23

every day, you need something

4:23

else. So you have to plan that

4:26

into your shopping. You might

4:26

need to get help from the other

4:29

important adults in your child's

4:29

life to bring them along to make

4:32

sure everybody's on the same page.

4:33

Yeah, the Nana call, as

4:33

I call it! The 'Hi. How's it

4:36

going? I really appreciate it

4:36

but if you don't mind can we not

4:39

have a lot from Nana's press

4:39

today?'

4:42

I think sometimes if you

4:42

frame that as asking for help.

4:46

Saying we've decided to do this

4:46

as a family. We don't want to

4:50

have treats on Monday or

4:50

whatever it is. Can you help me

4:54

with that. As opposed to

4:54

'Don't'. Sometimes it's about

4:57

the language and the framing.

4:59

Yes, that's right.

4:59

Colman, in terms of like

5:01

starting that and getting the

5:01

kids ready for that, I call it

5:04

a marathon but in the best

5:04

possible way, because exactly as

5:05

It's probably somewhere

5:05

in the middle. I mean, I don't

5:08

you said, it's like you're

5:08

looking for the support around

5:10

think you overhype it.

5:10

Sometimes, the biggest problem

5:11

you. But also you can't turn

5:11

around to the kids and go jigs

5:14

up this morning, we're not

5:14

having that. So how would you

5:14

we make in changes is

5:14

overcorrection. So we go from

5:17

frame that for kids? Or do you

5:17

just say nothing? Like as a

5:18

sure feck it, it's Christmas -

5:18

we'll have everything, to New

5:20

parent do we say nothing and

5:20

just make the swap? Or do you

5:23

Year's Eve - I'm going to be

5:23

totally new. Tomorrow, I'm going

5:24

pre dispose them with that

5:24

information and go, hey guys, as

5:27

a family, we're gonna make these

5:27

changes.

5:28

to eat nothing and I'm going to

5:28

drink water and everything else.

5:33

So the so the idea is that when

5:33

you make these extreme leaps

5:38

into change, they get really,

5:38

really hard really quickly, and

5:43

you fail. And so you go back. So

5:43

it's not about kind of just

5:48

becoming Ireland's fittest

5:48

family and never having a treat

5:52

again. It's about trying to

5:52

figure out how do we improve

5:57

from where we are now. So it's

5:57

not about being the best, it's

6:02

just being better than we are

6:02

now. So these small incremental

6:07

changes, and that means it

6:07

doesn't have to be a big

6:11

announcement or a big plan. The

6:11

other thing we do is we make

6:16

changes on a whim. So when we're

6:16

really frustrated, we say that's

6:21

it! No treats ever again! Where

6:21

you're grounding a child for a

6:26

year and a half or something. In

6:26

other words, you kind of follow through.

6:33

The idea is that you don't make

6:33

those changes when you're upset,

6:38

or frustrated or emotional. You

6:38

make them when you're thinking

6:40

it through. The other thing is,

6:40

what we know and what we do are

6:45

very different things. We all

6:45

know the stuff that we should

6:47

and shouldn't be eating and

6:47

doing. But knowledge is only a

6:51

start or something, you have to

6:51

actually make those changes. And

6:54

people will always say, when I

6:54

feel better, I'll do something

6:56

different. Unfortunately, when

6:56

you do something different, you

6:59

feel better. And so the action

6:59

has to lead the way in terms of

7:03

how it is we feel about it. And

7:03

so the only way of making

7:07

something that's unfamiliar

7:07

familiar, is by repeating it.

7:09

And in that space of

7:09

making changes, and they're

7:11

happening maybe as the week has

7:11

gone along, and obviously,

7:15

whether you're the parent or the

7:15

carer or the Guardian in that

7:19

circumstance, you're saying,

7:19

right, we're going to be the

7:22

people, if it's two people, co

7:22

parents are or your parenting

7:26

together, that you go, we're

7:26

making this decision, and that

7:30

you stay and stand firm within

7:30

the house. But, again, as you

7:33

say, like New Year's resolutions

7:33

at the very start, we all come

7:37

with great intention. But as the

7:37

marathon continues, and you

7:41

start to wane, how do you stick

7:41

at it? I think in the in the

7:45

early part, when you're starting

7:45

to make changes, or changing

7:49

foods or taking foods out it's

7:49

kind of okay, but when they

7:52

realize, that this is part and

7:52

parcel and this is the way our

7:56

household runs, there comes a

7:56

bit of resistance to that

7:59

change, like how do you not

7:59

falter in that?

8:03

there's a few aspects to

8:03

that, I suppose one is the

8:06

circumstances that you create

8:06

around that. So we talked about

8:09

the planning, so when you shop,

8:09

the house is not full of treats,

8:14

if that's your particular goal.

8:14

Or the treats are not accessible

8:18

to the child ie in a high press

8:18

that they can't reach if they're

8:22

there. Or you only buy them on

8:22

Friday or Saturday, whenever

8:25

you've decided that that's what

8:25

you're doing. So you kind of

8:28

create an environment that

8:28

supports the decision that

8:31

you've made. You make it easier

8:31

for yourself, in effect. The

8:35

motivation is probably the more

8:35

difficult part of the thing.

8:42

Everybody starts gung-ho as

8:42

well, as Colman was saying, but

8:45

then you have to kind of relax

8:45

into that. So you just have to

8:50

stick with it at that point. Get

8:50

all the adults around your child

8:55

in support and everybody moving

8:55

in the same direction. I suppose

8:59

the other thing to remember is

8:59

you're not aiming for

9:01

perfection, you probably will

9:01

fall off the wagon somewhere.

9:05

And a little bit of self

9:05

acceptance is also part of it.

9:09

So, if you do have the treats

9:09

on the day you said you wouldn't

9:13

or bow to the child's requests,

9:13

it doesn't matter. The next day,

9:18

you just start again. So it is a

9:18

little bit about trying,

9:22

failing, trying again, but

9:22

really sticking to that goal in

9:25

your mind and say this is what

9:25

we want to happen so we're just

9:30

going to keep working on this.

9:30

Remember, it's not gonna happen

9:32

overnight. It'll take at least

9:32

six weeks to change a habit. So,

9:37

it is about making things

9:37

familiar, as Colman said earlier

9:42

on, trying it again and again

9:42

and again.

9:45

guys, but it's that

9:45

kind of moment where if

9:50

something goes wrong, but you've

9:50

said this is what we're going to

9:52

do and you're the grown up and

9:52

then you falter. There's the

9:56

guilt that comes with that. Like

9:56

you said, it takes six weeks but

10:00

then allowing yourself as a

10:00

parent, to have that moment

10:03

saying to yourself I'm not going

10:03

to hit everything all the time

10:06

but the intention is there.

10:08

I think a really nice

10:08

thing to do for yourself is to

10:11

just be a bit gentle with

10:11

yourself. This is a marathon,

10:15

not a sprint. These things are

10:15

not going to happen overnight.

10:19

So, ease yourself into it.

10:19

You're trying, you're doing your

10:23

best, you're aiming for

10:23

something, and you will get

10:25

Yes. And you will get

10:25

there. There's so many questions

10:25

there. that have come in. One of the

10:28

questions that links in with

10:31

this, is when you're talking

10:31

about changes and changing

10:35

habits, one of the big ones that

10:35

came in is about trying new

10:38

foods. These are just two

10:38

general questions that we had.

10:42

An eight year old, who is very

10:42

set in their ways won't try new

10:46

foods, will only eat things that

10:46

he's familiar with. Again,

10:49

another one, I struggle with

10:49

dinnertime, my two year old,

10:53

won't eat vegetables or won't

10:53

eat any meat, what can I do? So

10:57

kind of the same scenario of one

10:57

is very change resistant, and

11:00

the other is change resistant in

11:00

the sense of they will only eat

11:04

what they eat. Should we go with

11:04

the psychological first or the

11:08

nutritional standpoint?

11:13

I suppose, again, this

11:13

is part of the be gentle with

11:17

yourself message. Neophobia,

11:17

which means the fear of new

11:21

things is an absolutely normal

11:21

part of a child's development.

11:27

It will start at about one and a

11:27

half and kind of peak between

11:30

one and a half and about five.

11:30

But it won't finish really until

11:34

close to 12 and even 18. I mean,

11:34

this is an 18 year project. So I

11:40

think parents have a great

11:40

tendency to kind of beat

11:43

themselves up if they're not

11:43

getting a full portion of peas

11:45

into the child or whatever it

11:45

is. But this is a very slow

11:49

process and it's a very normal

11:49

part of the human condition to

11:52

be afraid of what you don't

11:52

know, that's part of how we

11:56

survive. That's why the child is

11:56

acting like this. So I mean, for

12:00

some children, it will be

12:00

smelling, licking, biting, and

12:06

spitting out or taking one bite.

12:06

What I'm talking about is a year

12:11

or even many years process for

12:11

some kids, and then you get your

12:14

bite and you might get your two bites and three bites. Eventually, by the age of 12,

12:15

most children will be somewhere

12:21

around accepting lots and lots

12:21

of foods, which is great. So

12:25

it's that kind of acceptance of

12:25

the processes as a very long one

12:33

and trying not to create a

12:33

stressful situation out of a

12:37

dinner. Your job is to expose

12:37

the child to the food, make them

12:41

more familiar and encourage them

12:41

to try. But your job is not to

12:46

get them to eat a full portion.

12:46

That is something you can

12:49

consider as a very long term

12:49

goal. So I think when you push

12:52

it in those kinds of terms, it

12:52

becomes a little bit more

12:56

manageable for a parent because

12:56

they're not failing every dinner

12:59

time, they're just trying every

12:59

dinner time. That is a little

13:03

bit easier to manage.

13:04

I think as a parent we

13:04

probably face that a lot. I know

13:04

I think the first thing

13:04

to do is not see your child's

13:07

in our house we have a very

13:07

small food group for one of our

13:11

children. I think as a parent,

13:11

when you see one of your other

13:15

children who is very accepting

13:15

of food and the other whos isnt.

13:19

Number one, you just want the

13:19

enjoyment and having that that

13:23

moment of sitting of enjoying

13:23

food and it not being a

13:26

challenge, but it can quickly

13:26

fall into one or you could as a

13:30

parent fall into a trap of it

13:30

becoming almost tense, even in

13:34

the run up to dinnertime, or in

13:34

the run up to even suggesting

13:38

new foods. So is there a way to,

13:38

as a parent, to reassure your

13:42

child so that it doesn't become

13:42

an us versus them kind of situation.

13:50

diet as a reflection or

13:50

extension of you because then

13:53

you get personalized into it.

13:53

The fear of the unknown is what

14:03

anxiety is. So if you don't know

14:03

what something tastes like, the

14:06

younger child will feel I don't

14:06

want to try that. And they'll

14:08

have heard all this, they'll

14:08

have associations with broccoli,

14:12

or whatever it is, that it's

14:12

dreadful and all that sort

14:14

stuff. And so it's always about

14:14

rewarding the effort, not the

14:17

outcome. So you award a child

14:17

for trying not for completion.

14:23

Once you get into that, it is

14:23

tiny in terms of moving, but as

14:27

as a child matures, and many

14:27

will, they'll find out how

14:31

restrictive their diet is and

14:31

they'll want to be included in

14:35

things at secondary school and

14:35

someone's going down to the to

14:37

get a roll at lunchtime or

14:37

whatever, they will start to

14:41

broaden their palate around that

14:41

time naturally. There is a bit

14:45

of patience required. However,

14:45

what I would say is to avoid

14:49

battles. The battle of the

14:49

dinner table is as much about

14:53

reinforcing that it's important

14:53

to you as it is about getting

14:57

the food into your child and if

14:57

it becomes a battle of wills,

15:00

then foods will become the

15:00

source of that argument or that

15:04

control.

15:07

Is it an age old thing

15:07

that we're predisposed to sit

15:10

down and eat dinner and that

15:10

it's kind of almost like a

15:13

parenting win? Or is there

15:13

something that has evolved from

15:17

maybe our parents, that we

15:17

carry with us that it's a very

15:20

focal thing having our children

15:20

sit down and have dinner in

15:23

their bellies. Or that the

15:23

reward comes after the dinner.

15:26

For example, saying that if you

15:26

get through that, I'll give you

15:30

a bar chocolate.

15:31

Yes. Our relationship

15:31

with food is an emotional one

15:34

from very early on. So, the

15:34

child who falls, you give them a

15:38

treat. The child who is tired,

15:38

you give them a treat. The child

15:42

who's good gets a dessert the

15:42

child who is not, doesn't. So

15:45

all these associations with food

15:45

are being hardwired right from

15:49

the get go. Even things like my

15:49

parents would have said to me,

15:53

"there are starving children in

15:53

Ethiopia, and you're not

15:57

finishing your dinners" or

15:57

whatever. That would create

16:00

guilt about leaving food or not

16:00

completing food and all that

16:04

sort of stuff. We don't want to

16:04

further enhance the emotional

16:08

connection with performing at

16:08

the real time versus that.

16:11

That's where we start all the

16:11

process of comfort eating and

16:15

feeling like we don't deserve to

16:15

eat and all those sorts of

16:19

things. So the less emotional

16:19

you can make the mealtime in

16:22

terms of intensity, the better

16:22

the outcome. Now, obviously, we

16:26

want our children to have enough

16:26

food, and we can be worried

16:30

about them not eating enough,

16:30

and everything else. Aileen

16:34

might be able to speak more to

16:34

that. But if it becomes an

16:37

absolute intense investment on

16:37

behalf of the parent, that can

16:41

sometimes hijack the nutritional

16:41

piece, and it becomes an

16:45

emotional battle. Very small

16:45

infants, the way they exert

16:48

control is by not listening and

16:48

not eating and so those two

16:52

communications are, I'm putting

16:52

my foot down here. The first

16:56

words, an infant will utter and

16:56

overuse is no or never. So it is

17:00

it is about control and don't

17:00

make food a source or a battle

17:04

Which leads us to a

17:04

question from a nutritional

17:04

of control. standpoint. So two of the

17:06

questions here, they are

17:09

probably standard for so many

17:09

people here or watching, is that

17:12

my son is 12 and he wont eat

17:12

anything other than bread. And

17:15

the other one is wondering how

17:15

do I get my my children to eat

17:18

more vegetables, so they're very

17:18

polarized in terms of one will

17:22

only eat bread, and the other

17:22

one is trying to get the

17:24

nutritional value in? So from a

17:24

twelve year old's perspective,

17:28

obviously, he's growing. If he's

17:28

only eating bread, I know

17:31

there's always kind of this

17:31

thing of like, sure they won't

17:34

starve, but also from a

17:34

nutritional standpoint, I think

17:37

that's always a parent's real concern.

17:39

Yes, and I would say the

17:39

person who submitted that

17:42

question is worried so that

17:42

child, particularly a boy is

17:46

going into a very large growth

17:46

spurt at that particular time.

17:51

Eating only bread is very

17:51

restrictive. I think we need to

17:55

just acknowledge that there is a

17:55

condition called ARFID. That's

17:59

avoidant and restrictive food

17:59

intake disorder that was covered

18:03

in the media this week. I don't

18:03

know if people would have heard

18:08

about that. It's quite an

18:08

extreme disorder of eating

18:11

because the food is so limited.

18:11

So we're not talking about the

18:16

child that you can gradually

18:16

introduced the foods. It's a

18:20

real physiological and sensory

18:20

issue, sometimes associated with

18:24

the neuro diversity spectrum,

18:24

like autism but not always. The

18:29

parents who are experiencing

18:29

this will know this very well.

18:33

But it's just to acknowledge for

18:33

everybody hear that there is a

18:37

condition that would need,

18:37

specialized care with a dietetic

18:41

or psychologist to help that

18:41

child to maybe move forward. And

18:46

they may not, so they may need

18:46

medical intervention, as well.

18:50

So just to acknowledge that that

18:50

is a condition

18:54

It's quite unusual that

18:54

people just eat bread, what are

18:59

the factors that are around?

19:01

I could say to their

19:01

parent, try some of the things

19:05

all the

19:05

senses, the licking the

19:08

smelling, but it sounds like if

19:08

that has lasted until the child

19:12

is 12, she may need to consult

19:12

your GP and maybe look for

19:16

extra care.

19:17

The other side of that

19:17

spectrum is, again, the teenager

19:20

and how to encourage them to

19:20

have more vegetables. I think

19:23

from parental side, from a

19:23

nutrition standpoint, it's

19:27

always that thing. I have a mad

19:27

thing about looking at my kids

19:30

nails, like they're going to get

19:30

scurvy! But I'm just like, oh,

19:34

is it or isn't it? We're just

19:34

constantly going, are they

19:38

getting enough nutrition? And

19:38

you go into the pharmacy, and

19:42

wonder should I buy the jelly

19:42

vitamins because that will give

19:45

them sugar and some type of

19:45

salt, you know? But in terms of

19:49

trying to manage their actual

19:49

intake as they grow are you

19:52

looking at the five a day?

19:56

That's what you're

19:56

aiming for. But, one of the

19:59

points that Colman said earlier

19:59

was that you're starting from

20:03

where you are, so if that child

20:03

is only eating a limited range

20:07

of vegetables, you start there.

20:07

One technique that might be

20:11

useful is called Food chaining.

20:11

If a child likes mashed potato,

20:15

they might have some mashed

20:15

carrot, you follow the texture.

20:19

Or if they like peas, they might

20:19

like sweet corn, because it's

20:23

kind of similar small round,

20:23

vegetables. So it's about how we

20:27

build on what we already have

20:27

and what's already acceptable to

20:32

the child. And if they have the

20:32

mashed carrot, you might be

20:36

looking at a couple of whole

20:36

carrot pieces in eventually. So

20:40

follow the textures, follow the

20:40

shapes, follow what they'll

20:44

already take and go with that.

20:46

Super helpful. There's loads of questions coming in. One eats too much, the other

20:47

eats too little. Is one having too many snacks?

20:48

The word snack in the

21:03

pandemic,it's a trigger word, it

21:03

really is. People looking at you

21:06

going can I have a snack all the time. And then again, because they were at home when you're

21:08

worried about them, so it's in

21:11

terms of an eating too much for

21:11

dinner, and the old ones not

21:13

taking in enough.

21:14

So children are very

21:14

capable of following their own

21:18

appetites. As you said earlier,

21:18

a parent is always kind of on

21:25

tenterhooks wondering will they

21:25

eat the dinner, because that's a

21:29

natural instinct. And of course,

21:29

you and every parent knows,

21:32

that's really what we want. We

21:32

all want to ensure that our

21:35

children are nourished, that's

21:35

kind of the base job. That's

21:38

always going to be something

21:38

that parents consider very

21:41

important. They'll know exactly

21:41

what they should be doing and

21:45

then it's not happening in front

21:45

of them is the reality which can

21:47

be a moment of tension. But I

21:47

think that idea of being gentle

21:55

with yourself is also really

21:55

important to hear.

21:59

This one stands out for

21:59

probably a lot of people, and I

22:02

don't know if this happens in

22:02

anybody else's house? When they

22:06

send the food into school for a

22:06

trip, and it just comes home in

22:09

the evening, you're like, Oh,

22:09

it's lovely to see you! I'm so

22:12

glad that you've had a lovely

22:12

day, and nothing has been eaten!

22:15

No lunches being eaten. Should

22:15

I just get rid of the lunch

22:18

altogether and just let him eat

22:18

when he comes home? Or should we

22:22

just keep going with the lunchbox?

22:24

I think keep going with

22:24

the lunchbox. It is about that

22:25

Should I make him eat

22:25

it when he comes home?

22:27

exposure. I think bringing the

22:27

child into the conversation, and

22:31

bringing the child in to the

22:31

choosing of the lunch helps.

22:35

that does depend on the age and

22:35

making of the lunch. So

22:38

sometimes that involvement can

22:38

be really important in terms of,

22:42

they might eat some bit of it

22:42

because they've chosen it for

22:46

themselves. That might not be

22:46

exactly what you would want them

22:50

to have but it is a start in

22:50

terms of having something in the

22:54

middle of the day, which is

22:54

really important as well.

23:02

if they haven't had anything since breakfast? Then

23:05

Yes, there's a social

23:05

component to school lunches,

23:05

yes? there's a status element, in

23:10

terms of comparing lunches.

23:15

Status in terms of the social

23:15

status. It's kind of like

23:20

following a very tricky formula,

23:20

trying to not have any allergies

23:23

in the lunchbox, not having this

23:23

or not having that. It's the

23:26

idea of getting it right.You can

23:26

be a little bit restricted in

23:30

terms of what they will eat. For

23:30

young people, there's a lot of

23:33

schools that will say eat and

23:33

then you can go outside. And

23:36

young people have been sitting for hours, they just want to get outside, the eating is kind of

23:38

superfluous at this stage. So

23:41

they'll pretend to eat and as

23:41

soon as the first person is gone

23:44

out, theyre gone too. But in

23:44

actual fact, I encourage in

23:46

schools that there's a set

23:46

eating time and then the

23:49

Playtime is after. In my house

23:49

when someone finishes a meal

23:54

first and heads off, the rest of

23:54

them now all of a sudden need to

23:57

leave the table too and so the

23:57

idea of within a group in school

24:01

sometimes there's a social

24:01

pressure, so they may not be not

24:03

eating for any nutritional or

24:03

hunger value, but merely to get

24:07

to play. So from that point of

24:07

view, you may ask a few

24:11

questions around why they're

24:11

leaving it. Is it about taste?

24:15

Is it about preference? Is it

24:15

about pressure, and many will

24:18

say I didn't have time. So it is

24:18

important to consider that.

24:23

This is a great

24:23

question as well. I think maybe

24:27

a lot of parents will feel this.

24:27

Any tips, getting other

24:30

caregivers on board?I've tried

24:30

to talk to them before just in

24:37

terms of the eating but I was

24:37

told I was very OTT.

24:43

I think Aileen's point

24:43

about asking for a buy in rather

24:46

than a wagging finger. You'll

24:46

get a better response. If you

24:51

say Nana, you're not allowed to

24:51

give him anymore, you'll just

24:54

have jaffa cakes being smuggled

24:54

in pockets and things snuck back

24:57

from Nanas. You just drive it

24:57

under ground from there. But I

25:03

think from the point of view of

25:03

saying to whoever it is, look,

25:06

we are really trying to do

25:06

something here as a family, and

25:08

we're trying to get a bit healthier, and we're trying to do a bit of walking and that

25:10

sort of stuff. One treat is

25:13

fine, but giving him the whole

25:13

box of biscuits is probably not

25:19

what we would like. The idea is

25:19

that nobody wants to be an

25:24

unpopular grandparent who says

25:24

no and the great thing about

25:29

having grandchildren is you can

25:29

spoil them. I suppose it's

25:34

asking and requesting that

25:34

somebody kind of just rolls in

25:37

with you a little bit if you're

25:37

trying something. Because I

25:40

think if you get into saying

25:40

don't, and you're giving out to

25:44

people, nagging doesn't work as

25:44

a strategy. From the point of

25:50

view of getting people on board

25:50

is far greater, and again, these

25:54

are habits that you form over

25:54

time. As Aileen said it takes

25:58

six weeks to form a habit. The

25:58

first three or four visits,

26:02

they're surprised they're not

26:02

getting as many treats from

26:04

Nana, but after four and five,

26:04

that's the treat that they get.

26:07

Aileen, an interesting

26:07

question that came in there is

26:12

about portion sizes. On the

26:12

safefood website is there

26:16

somewhere where you can go and

26:16

visually see what portion sizes

26:21

for what age child?

26:23

Yes, there is. So if you

26:23

go to safefood.net you will find

26:29

them. I think that we're going

26:29

to put together some links

26:31

related to the conversation

26:31

tonight, you'll get them

26:33

afterwards as well. But the

26:33

visual part is the essential

26:38

thing. So I can tell you here in

26:38

words, but actually online, we

26:42

have videos, here's the very

26:42

small child portion, here's the

26:46

primary school child's portion

26:46

and here's the adult portion. I

26:49

think that's really useful to

26:49

have a look at. A really good

26:53

rule of thumb is, for a five

26:53

year old, they need half the

26:57

size that an adult needs and you

26:57

can work up from that if they're

27:01

older, you work down from that

27:01

if they're younger. And for

27:05

smaller kids, obviously, the

27:05

small plates, the small bowls,

27:08

small everything will help guide

27:08

you in getting the portions

27:12

right. Sometimes parents think

27:12

maybe the child is not eating

27:18

enough, actually, the child may

27:18

well be eating enough for their

27:22

size. So just to remember that

27:22

it's much smaller. The tendency

27:26

for the big plate. You know when

27:26

you go to a restaurant and they

27:36

put it in front of you and

27:36

you're like, I can climb this!

27:40

But a serving of pasta for a

27:40

very small child, say two to

27:44

three is a half a cup of cooked

27:44

pasta. So I think when we start

27:50

to remember that, I think it is

27:50

really helpful.

27:53

Yes, that visual

27:53

guidance. And we'll put up all

27:55

the links, but you'll find it

27:55

over on the safefood website.

27:59

Does anybody have any questions they'd like to ask at this point? Feel free to jump in.

28:03

What about a

28:03

child who is grazing all day.

28:10

Structure is hugely important. I suppose all you can do in that

28:12

situation is have those three

28:12

She's in the

28:12

fridge every half hour.

28:34

meals set out. And then see if

28:34

the grazing happens after the

28:55

meal, not before. Because if you

28:55

can graze all day, and you're

28:56

I suppose leave a little

28:56

space of time, maybe after the

29:00

lunch or after the tea before

29:00

the the grazing is allowed. From

29:05

that point of view, what you're

29:05

trying to do is regulate her

29:10

appetite so that she gets hungry

29:10

at the right time. When we're

29:15

trying to regulate children,

29:15

children's appetites, there's a

29:17

getting a lunch at one o'clock,

29:17

and you've just grazed from 11

29:20

bit of work in that. In terms of

29:20

having the right amounts of food

29:25

so that you're not over feeding

29:25

them so that they're not hungry

29:30

for the next meal and trying to

29:30

get that right. I think maybe if

29:36

you didn't have breakfast, then

29:36

you might be really hungry for

29:40

till 12, you're not going to

29:40

have the hunger to have the lunch.

29:41

lunch, and then take a break

29:41

between lunch and the next one.

29:46

And then you can graze once your

29:46

meals are finished, but

29:50

permissible grazing doesn't help

29:50

you to kind of get those meals

29:55

in place because they're already

29:55

full from that point of view.

30:00

Does that make sense?

30:06

I might just add to

30:06

that, I think sometimes there's

30:10

a big tendency to talk about the

30:10

three meals. As adults, we have

30:14

our three meals. But for

30:14

children, particularly young

30:17

children, your daughter is only

30:17

six. Actually, it's three meals

30:21

and three snacks. So these are

30:21

small meals regularly for small

30:26

stomachs that can't take a big

30:26

volume of food. Obviously, you

30:31

don't want her to be eating

30:31

every half hour. But I think

30:35

what's more important is the

30:35

quality of the food. Is she

30:38

eating snacks that are important

30:38

for her nutritional benefit? For

30:42

exmaple, is it yogurt? Is it a

30:42

cracker with a little bit of

30:45

cheese or peanut butter? Is it

30:45

some pieces of fruit? For a

30:52

small child like that the

30:52

quality of the snacks matter.

30:55

Very small children can't afford

30:55

to have lots of treats because

30:58

it does nothing for them from a

30:58

nutritional perspective, and it

31:01

displaces those healthier

31:01

snacks, which are really

31:04

important for the child. So I

31:04

think that's a maybe even a more

31:08

important question for you.

31:08

What's the quality of the type

31:11

of snacks that she's having?

31:11

And, again, to see if you can

31:15

space it out a little bit. For

31:15

a small child, it's nearly every

31:19

three hours would be normal to

31:19

be eating.

31:23

When I started to work

31:23

with safefood, I went on to the

31:29

Make a Start webpage, I looked

31:29

at what the snacks were. I

31:36

thought I was doing wonders but

31:36

when I looked at the snacks I

31:43

went that has to go and they

31:43

can't havve that!

31:51

In terms of screen time and

31:51

managing that. I know, obviously

31:54

things have been very different

31:54

with children learning from

31:57

home. Trying to figure that out

31:57

as a parent is there any do's

32:03

and don'ts for navigating that?

32:07

From a health

32:07

perspective, the screen time can

32:10

often displace their physical

32:10

activity time. So it's all about

32:14

making sure that they have an

32:14

opportunity to be active, and

32:18

the screentime takes away from

32:18

that. So that would be the

32:22

perspective that we would always

32:22

look at it from. But now,

32:26

because of COVID all these lines

32:26

have blurred. So children do

32:30

quite a lot of their, let's call

32:30

it useful work or schoolwork

32:34

online now. So where's the line

32:34

between the screen time that is

32:38

school related and the leisure

32:38

time? So, that's a little bit

32:42

more difficult to navigate?

32:42

Because we used to say no more

32:46

than two hours for primary

32:46

school aged child. But what does

32:50

that mean now. So I think the

32:50

main thing is that it's on a

32:54

weekday they probably don't have

32:54

more than an hour a day. You can

32:59

give them a little bit more at

32:59

the weekend, maybe the two

33:03

hours, but just to make sure

33:03

that it's not displacing their

33:07

opportunity to be active. That's

33:07

what we're talking about.

33:14

You don't want to come in with that heavy hand either saying I'm switching off the

33:16

technology, changing the Wi Fi

33:18

code because their lives are

33:18

revolving around being online

33:25

and being on tablets. And when

33:25

they go to secondary school it

33:42

There's two sides to this. One

33:42

side is about activity and

33:46

movement. And I'd like to share

33:46

Aileen's concerns there. We're

33:50

seeing a lot more children with

33:50

injuries. I'd never went to a

33:53

physio when I was a child in my

33:53

life, but there's physio friends

33:57

of mine who are seeing far more

33:57

children. And that's because

34:00

is part of their schoolwork and

34:00

you want to encourage that as

34:01

they're sitting and then they're

34:01

going to training on a Tuesday

34:05

well. Can you give a young

34:05

child ownership? Perhaps saying

34:05

night intense exercise and then

34:05

stopping again. There's no

34:09

natural movement. So we need to

34:09

really encourage active movement

34:13

I'm going to give you the next

34:13

15 minutes. Or do you have to be

34:13

into children's lives. It's not

34:13

all structured, sheduled adult

34:17

led movement, but that they have

34:17

movement within their day. The

34:21

second side of it is that your

34:21

technological diet is no

34:24

different to your food diet in

34:24

many respects. There are good

34:27

the person that has to lay down

34:27

the hard line?

34:28

technology uses and poor ones.

34:28

So you have the meat and two

34:32

vegetables or and then you have

34:32

treats afterwards. But you know,

34:36

nobody wants anyone to live a

34:36

donut-less life, but you don't

34:39

have a donut before your

34:39

breakfast. So the idea is, when

34:43

we're on technology some of the

34:43

stuff is useful. If I'm

34:47

watching a YouTube tutorial,

34:47

learning how to play a song on a

34:50

guitar, that's a useful use of

34:50

my time, and that's not bad.

34:54

Whereas, if I spent an hour and

34:54

a half playing Candy Crush, or

34:58

watching cats on skateboards,

34:58

that is maybe not the best use

35:02

of my time. We don't measure a

35:02

child's diet by how long they

35:06

sit at the table, you measure it

35:06

by what they eat, and your

35:09

technological diet is the same.

35:09

Move away from time spent, and

35:13

move to time well spent. So if

35:13

children are using technology

35:17

productively, it's far better

35:17

than somebody who's, using less

35:21

time but using it less

35:21

productively. So it's more about

35:24

understanding what children are

35:24

doing with technology, as

35:28

opposed to just a dashboard of

35:28

time spent on it.

35:31

Absolutely, that

35:31

totally makes sense. Last

35:34

question, I know exercise was

35:34

mentioned. How do you know if

35:38

they are getting enough? Are

35:38

they well grounded? Kids have

35:43

more support than we ever did

35:43

growing up. But you do you want

35:47

them to have exercise? And you

35:47

do want them to have that social

35:52

outlet away from their schooling

35:52

and away from anything online?

35:56

Is there a happy medium? Or is

35:56

there a guideline that you can

36:01

go by with children in terms of

36:01

their ages that they're getting

36:05

their exercise needs, but that

36:05

we're not as parents maybe

36:10

pushing them. I think sometimes

36:10

you get to Friday, and you go,

36:14

they're exhausted, and we still

36:14

have to be up at half past eight

36:19

to be at the pitch for nine

36:19

o'clock, then to go to dance at

36:23

one. We're trying to keep them

36:23

as well rounded as we can, is

36:28

there a guideline Aileen in

36:28

terms of that?

36:31

So children need about

36:31

an hour of physical activity

36:34

every day. But that doesn't mean

36:34

an hour down at the GAA pitch.

36:39

That means everything counts. So

36:39

every bit of movement counts. If

36:43

they come home from school and

36:43

go out into the garden for 10

36:46

minutes for a run around

36:46

kickball that counts towards it.

36:50

So it is the point that Colman,

36:50

this natural movement within the

36:53

course of the day is really

36:53

important. They get some of that

36:56

in the yard in school, they get

36:56

some of that in their PE class

36:59

in school, but they do need a

36:59

bit more, whether that's going

37:02

for a walk with you down to the

37:02

park, or whether it's an

37:06

organized physical activity. So

37:06

it'll be different for every

37:09

child, depending on what access

37:09

they have to being outdoors. I

37:17

think if there's one change, you

37:17

want to make it to be active as

37:21

a family. So we talked about

37:21

food treats, but maybe a treat

37:25

is that you all go together to

37:25

whatever you have access to

37:28

whether that's the beach, or the

37:28

park or the mountains or the

37:32

swimming pool, but something

37:32

that you enjoy as a family

37:39

together. That's really important.

37:40

As a wise child psychotherapist once told me about being present in those

37:41

moments. The treats become we

37:44

will go to x, y and z and that

37:44

instead saying you can have a

37:53

premiership set of stickers on

37:53

Friday, or that they build to

37:56

that, and incorporating that

37:56

exercise in that activity but

37:59

make it that the norm rather

37:59

than it being this big ordeal

38:02

such as we're going to centre parks for four days!

38:04

And remember, what you

38:04

do is really important as well.

38:07

So if you are being active, they

38:07

see you being active. If you're

38:14

having your glass of water with

38:14

dinner. All of this matters. If

38:20

you can see it, you can be at

38:20

it. There's a lot of truth to

38:24

that. So what the parents does,

38:24

and what the parent does with

38:28

the children is is equally

38:28

important.

38:31

I remember asking a

38:31

teenager for older children, you

38:33

know, what is the difference

38:33

between nagging and encouraging,

38:36

and they gave me this great

38:36

explanation. Nagging is you

38:39

never go outside and you never

38:39

walk? Encouraging is saying come

38:43

on we'll go down to the shop,

38:43

I'll go with you. And there is a

38:45

vast difference in being told to

38:45

do something and being asked to

38:49

do something. And the idea of

38:49

saying phrases like you never

38:52

you or shouldn't or you've been

38:52

sitting there too long, that's

38:55

not going to encourage any young

38:55

person to get up. Whereas if you

38:57

say, Can you finish that in 15

38:57

minutes, and yourself and myself

39:01

we will go down, and we'll get

39:01

this and do that. You start the

39:03

process by going with them.

39:03

That's how you start the habit.

39:07

Rather than saying you never,

39:07

you don't, you should, which was

39:11

only going to make that child or

39:11

teenager sit for longer.

39:14

I don't know, if you

39:14

guys agree that we're becoming

39:18

newer products of what our

39:18

parents perhaps were. That we're

39:22

living our lifestyle.I've

39:22

learned a lot from you just in

39:25

terms of language that we use,

39:25

and Make a Start very much comes

39:28

into that in the campaign. It's

39:28

about making those really small

39:31

changes, that we're not jumping

39:31

into the unknown, we're

39:34

realizing that it's this

39:34

marathon, but the ultimate goal

39:37

is going to be very good. It is

39:37

ultimately all about the well

39:41

being and your happiness and the

39:41

healthiness of your kids. If you

39:44

can get through all those little

39:44

bits, there's a moment somewhere

39:50

in it where you're in a park for

39:50

four minutes, everybody's happy!

39:54

It's not going to be like that

39:54

all of the time. There will

39:57

always be the challenges that

39:57

come with it but it is about

40:00

learning a little bit more. As you were saying about the language, and facing a bit of

40:02

adversity and then to try to

40:06

navigate that. But there is

40:06

definitely a point as a parent

40:09

when you hit that sweet spot and

40:09

it is definitely all worth it.

40:14

Guys, thank you so much for

40:14

joining us. I really appreciate

40:17

it. Thank you so much to

40:17

everybody for joining us and for

40:20

joining us online. If you

40:20

registered online, you can watch

40:22

everything back. We really

40:22

appreciate your time this

40:26

evening, guys. Thank you very much.

40:29

Thank you.

40:29

Thank you