0:02

Mam, can I have this?

0:04

Your dinner will be ready soon love.

0:05

But please, I'm starving.

0:10

Just say yes Julie. It's

0:10

been a long week.

0:14

What else has he had today?

0:15

Come on just one.

0:21

Saying no will only

0:21

make you the bad guy.

0:23

No. If you're hungry

0:23

you can have cheese and crackers

0:26

or fruit. Let's go easy on the treats.

0:26

Start with smaller ones less

0:29

often to keep your family healthy. Good evening,

0:31

everyone and welcome to this

0:33

evenings Webinar. My name is Jen

0:33

Hogan and I'm delighted to be

0:37

your host for this event. This

0:37

webinar is brought to you by the

0:40

START campaign. A public health

0:40

awareness campaign from

0:42

safefood, the HSE and healthy

0:42

Ireland and the public health

0:46

agency and department of health

0:46

in Northern Ireland. The

0:49

campaign has been designed to

0:49

help parents and guardians start

0:52

their kids on a way to a

0:52

healthier life by providing

0:54

practical advice and useful

0:54

resources. These include

0:57

parenting expert videos, healthy

0:57

snack options and steps to get

1:00

started, and you can find them

1:00

by searching 'make a start'.

1:04

This evening, we're focusing on

1:04

the topic of how best to

1:06

moderate our children's treat

1:06

food consumption. Research with

1:09

parents and guardians for the

1:09

START campaign revealed that

1:12

while they want to reduce treats

1:12

like crisps, chocolate and

1:14

biscuits for children, saying no

1:14

is difficult, and there's very

1:18

few parents who don't struggle

1:18

with the amount of treats that

1:20

they give to their children.

1:20

Sometimes it just seems easier

1:23

and faster when life is busy.

1:23

But most of us would like to

1:26

make healthier choices for our

1:26

children and encourage them to

1:28

make healthy choices to was

1:28

striking a balance, of course.

1:32

And making sure that food

1:32

doesn't become an issue or a

1:34

battleground. Who doesn't need

1:34

help getting that balance right?

1:38

As a mom of seven children, I'm

1:38

certainly interested in hearing

1:41

our panels expert advice. And

1:41

this webinar is all about

1:44

supporting you, parents and

1:44

guardians who have joined us

1:46

this evening. So, if you have

1:46

any questions for our panel,

1:49

please submit these into the

1:49

question and answer section. I

1:51

will put them to our guests a

1:51

little later on. Before I

1:55

introduce you to the panel, we

1:55

want to hear from you. We have a

1:57

couple of questions appearing on

1:57

our screen now asking how often

2:00

your children have treats in the

2:00

week. So that's foods such as

2:03

crisps, chocolates, sweets,

2:03

biscuits, or sugary drinks. Is

2:07

it every day, five to six days a

2:07

week? Three to four days a week?

2:12

Or once or twice a week? And how

2:12

confident are you to start the

2:15

conversation of moderating

2:15

treats with your kids, very

2:19

confident, quite confident,

2:19

slightly confident or not at all

2:24

confident. So, while you're

2:24

voting, I'll introduce you to

2:28

our panel. I am joined this

2:28

evening, by safefood's chief

2:33

specialist and nutrition Joanna

2:33

De Silva, child and adolescent

2:37

psychotherapist, Coleman Noctor

2:37

and HSE clinical lead on obesity

2:41

Donal O She. So, have we any any

2:41

results here in anything that we

2:45

can have a look at. It's more of a spread than I

2:46

thought to be honest, I was

2:48

Joana, what are the actual

2:48

guidelines? I think that's part

2:50

thinking it'd be more heavily up

2:50

to the five or six days or you

2:54

know, even every seven days

2:54

because honestly, in the

2:57

discussions we were having

2:57

before, we've all struggled

3:01

keeping it below eight days a

3:01

week for treats! And that's the

3:05

challenge. It's a massive

3:05

challenge. So that's good.

3:09

There's a lot of parents on here

3:09

who are doing really well,

3:12

actually. Then there's more that

3:12

are looking for, hopefully some

3:17

of the tips that will come out

3:17

of this evening's webinar.

3:25

of the confusion, parents don't

3:25

actually know.

3:27

We can touch on what

3:27

we have been doing. We have some

3:31

data that says that about one

3:31

fifth of the calories that

3:35

children are consuming comes

3:35

from these types of foods. And

3:39

we know that in about 1/4 meals

3:39

we are including a treat food,

3:44

or a sugary drink. Now this data

3:44

was pre COVID data and we spoke

3:48

to parents recently, they told

3:48

us that this actually increased

3:53

during the pandemic. So, when we

3:53

talk about treat foods, the

3:57

guidance is really for the

3:57

smallest (child) to have a small

4:01

tiny treat once a week. And for

4:01

the older child up to twice a

4:06

week. This would be about a

4:06

square of chocolate, or about

4:10

five crisps for the smaller

4:10

child and the 'fun size'

4:14

chocolates and biscuits or

4:14

crisps for the older child. So,

4:18

it's encouraging to see that

4:18

some of the parents are doing

4:22

really well. And it's

4:22

encouraging to see that some of

4:26

us want to want to improve on this.

4:29

I am shocked I have

4:29

to be honest, I am shocked at

4:32

how little makes up a treat. I

4:32

think that is something that's

4:35

going to surprise a lot of

4:35

people because I wouldn't

4:39

consider a square of chocolate a

4:39

treat. I think that's something

4:42

I suppose that we're going to have to get our head around and I suppose we associate eating

4:43

treats so much with obesity, and

4:48

that's obviously your area,

4:48

Donal. What levels of increase

4:55

are we seeing in term in terms

4:55

of overweight children and obese

4:58

children?

4:59

I mean what's happening

4:59

is encouraging in a way and that

5:04

the levels of stops going up.

5:04

And we are now looking at levels

5:08

of unfortunately, it's one in

5:08

four of our children are either

5:12

overweight or obese. And that is

5:12

way too high. If you were to go

5:18

back 30 years ago, that level

5:18

would have been maybe 6%. So,

5:25

children living with overweight

5:25

or obesity has gone up about

5:30

four fold in the last 25 years.

5:30

It's a combination of the types

5:36

of food and nutrition that

5:36

they're eating, and what's

5:42

happened physical activity and

5:42

our sedentary lifestyles. And

5:47

it's that perfect storm of the

5:47

combination that has led to that

5:51

increase. That's why you have to

5:51

change a number of things.

5:56

Simply focusing on the energy in

5:56

is not going to address the

6:01

problem, you have to work across

6:01

our physical activity,

6:06

infrastructure as well.

6:11

That's a scary number

6:11

one in four, do you think

6:13

parents are recognizing this

6:13

because, you know, we're looking

6:16

at our kids everyday and

6:16

sometimes when you see somebody

6:18

after you haven't seen them for

6:18

a little while, and you notice

6:21

if they have lost weight or

6:21

gained weight, is it perhaps

6:23

that parents are oblivious to this?

6:25

We know that as parents,

6:25

we don't recognize a weight

6:30

problem in our children. And

6:30

that's why it's really

6:35

important. The changes that are

6:35

coming in now in say, GP

6:40

contracts, so that when both as

6:40

adults, or children, you go to

6:45

your GP, it will be routine to

6:45

be weighed, and measured. Then

6:49

you'll get the feedback. And if

6:49

you get that feedback, when

6:53

you're just overweight, whether

6:53

you're an adult or a child, it's

6:57

much easier as the adult to make

6:57

changes yourself. If your child

7:05

is overweight, if you were told

7:05

that, you won't be thinking

7:08

that, but the fact that you're

7:08

told will mean you can introduce

7:11

changes at home, that might just

7:11

improve the nutrition side of

7:16

things, and you can come to some

7:16

decisions about being physically

7:20

active. So identifying it as an

7:20

issue is a real challenge. But

7:30

is is beginning to be addressed

7:30

now, with work that's been done

7:34

with primary care and the GPs.

7:36

And I know, it's not

7:36

just obviously about appearance,

7:39

it's not just about how somebody

7:39

looks if they're overweight,

7:43

what are the actual health

7:43

consequences of a child being

7:46

overweight?

7:47

I mean, if it was a

7:47

purely cosmetic thing, it

7:53

wouldn't be an issue for the

7:53

health service. It's really

7:57

important that children do not

7:57

have issues around shape or

8:03

feeling that "one. look is the

8:03

look". And you know, we were

8:08

talking about Snapchat earlier

8:08

on and Tik Tok and the looks

8:13

that are put out there as being

8:13

desirable, are broadly

8:19

unobtainable, unless you are

8:19

obsessive around your behavior,

8:25

both on the nutrition side and

8:25

the physical activity side. So

8:30

we need to move away from that

8:30

kind of obsession with image,

8:36

have a positive attitude to the

8:36

fact that people come in all

8:42

shapes and sizes. If you wind

8:42

the clock back 200 years, there

8:46

was always a spectrum of weight

8:46

from underweight through

8:49

overweight, through to people

8:49

living with obesity. It was just

8:53

a tiny percentage of those

8:53

living with obesity, and now

8:59

that has come back into

8:59

childhood, unfortunately, when

9:04

it just wasn't an issue before.

9:04

That's why we have to address it

9:08

as a society. But the health

9:08

benefits of being a healthy

9:13

weight, if you can reach the age

9:13

of 18 at a healthy weight, then

9:19

your lifelong weight trajectory

9:19

is so positive. Whereas if you

9:25

carry overweight or obesity into

9:25

early adulthood, the challenge

9:31

to achieve or maintain a

9:31

healthier weight is so much more

9:37

But I suppose if

9:37

you've mentioned Snapchat there,

9:37

difficult. and some of the other social

9:41

media platforms, and we're

9:43

always talking particularly as

9:43

kids get older, and they become

9:46

more aware of these things, how

9:46

do we get this balance right?

9:50

How do we become aware of the

9:50

implications for children if

9:55

they're obese or overweight at a

9:55

younger age? How do we bring

9:58

this into a family discussion,

9:58

in terms of making some making

10:02

sure somebody doesn't become

10:02

obsessed with weight? We may be

10:06

displaced one problem with

10:06

another one. Coleman, I'm

10:09

looking looking to you here, How

10:09

do we get this balance? Right?

10:11

Yeah, we have to be really careful around the narrative around food. It should

10:13

be about health and not weight.

10:18

It should not be about good and

10:18

bad foods. It's about good and

10:21

bad amounts of foods. I work

10:21

with young people with eating

10:25

disorders, and oftentimes on the

10:25

opposite side of the spectrum,

10:28

more restrictive types. It can

10:28

be triggered by a class in

10:33

school that talks about bad fats

10:33

or something. A child could

10:37

become obsessive about it, or a

10:37

comment from peers or, the

10:43

parental behavior of strict

10:43

dieting at home, and how we all

10:47

speak about our body and shape.

10:47

All of these things can create a

10:50

relationship with food, weight

10:50

and shape, and a childhood lasts

10:54

a lifetime. And so what Donal

10:54

was saying about, you know, if

10:57

you can achieve a healthy

10:57

relationship up until the 18

10:59

years, the prognosis of you

10:59

keeping that is really positive.

11:03

But if you've an unhealthy

11:03

relationship with food, weight

11:05

and shape in childhood, it's

11:05

really hard to get over that.

11:09

And so, when we're talking about

11:09

how do we introduce a child to

11:14

healthier eating? I think it is

11:14

about moderation. I think it's

11:18

not about extremes. I think it's

11:18

not about fads or obsessiveness.

11:23

And I think absolutely, it's not

11:23

just about food, either. I think

11:26

that energy outpoint that Donal

11:26

made, again, you know, it's

11:29

about activity, it's about

11:29

having the right balance. So

11:33

although the treat conversation

11:33

is hugely important, it's only

11:36

one of the components to how we

11:36

should formulate health in that

11:42

way. Would you agree Donal?

11:44

I would agree. I agree

11:44

fully with that. And when I was

11:48

coming up here this evening, I

11:48

was thinking, what's the one of

11:51

the key things I'd like to get

11:51

across? And it's just how

11:56

difficult it is for parents. The

11:56

single thing that I would like

12:03

to get across is, it is, and I'm

12:03

not going to say it's an

12:07

impossible ask because we can't

12:07

say that, it's just a really

12:11

difficult ask around the

12:11

physical activity environment,

12:14

around the promotion of the high

12:14

fat, high salt, high sugar

12:19

foods, not just in the shops,

12:19

but through Snapchat, and

12:26

Tiktok, the prompts come up, and

12:26

that's all you need is that

12:30

trigger. You say, "oh, yeah,

12:30

maybe I am [hungry] and maybe I

12:33

will go and have that

12:33

McDonald's, or Burger King." Or

12:37

maybe " I will have Oreos" that

12:37

are promoted all over Snapchat.

12:44

So if parents know that it's

12:44

really difficult, I hope that

12:51

will allow that conversation to

12:51

happen at home about let's be a

12:56

little more moderate. Let's

12:56

acknowledge the fact that it's

13:00

really difficult. And see where

13:00

we can make some changes.

13:05

I know, I was talking

13:05

to you in the past Coleman about

13:07

different things. You mentioned

13:07

nagging doesn't work. So I

13:11

suppose particularly if you're

13:11

going near teenagers, maybe who

13:14

have that access to pocket money

13:14

or if they have a job

13:19

themselves, and they have that

13:19

freedom to go to the shops and

13:22

make these choices. We're not

13:22

always there, policing every

13:25

single thing. So is it a case

13:25

really, that we actually need to

13:29

involve them and engage them in

13:29

the conversation? It's not about

13:33

dictating to them, you can't

13:33

have this or you mustn't have

13:36

that but maybe perhaps about

13:36

making them more aware of the

13:40

choices they're making?

13:41

Yeah, I think it's a

13:41

real challenge to get that

13:44

balance right in that regard.

13:44

Because, again, you know,

13:47

nagging doesn't work and

13:47

encouragement probably works

13:50

better. But the task of

13:50

childhood is regulation. So from

13:54

the point of view of when you

13:54

say no to your three year olds

13:58

in Tescos for buttons, and they

13:58

have a tantrum on the floor, you

14:01

hope by the time they're 19,

14:01

they don't do that anymore,

14:04

because they've learned to

14:04

regulate emotion and all that

14:06

sort of stuff. But you have to

14:06

regulate for them when they

14:09

can't do it. So things like

14:09

portion control and managing

14:14

that. For example, if a child

14:14

finishes a bowl of ice cream,

14:18

they're going to ask you one

14:18

thing, which is can I have some

14:20

more. And as a parent, you say

14:20

no, you've had enough or you

14:23

think they're going to get sick

14:23

if they eat anymore, so I'm not

14:25

going to give you any more.

14:25

We're teaching them about

14:28

portion control. So, there is

14:28

an onus on us as parents to the

14:32

adults in the room to say this

14:32

is what's okay, and this is not.

14:36

But following on from Donal's

14:36

point about how difficult it is,

14:40

and the marketing around it is

14:40

very psychologically good. This

14:44

is not a new thing. Back in the

14:44

day, I remember going into

14:47

Superquinn. When you go in, there was the smell of the bread, beautiful bread, and

14:49

you'd buy tons of bread, and

14:54

you'd have a trolley full. It'd

14:54

be hard the next day but you'd

14:57

have bought loads of it because

14:57

the smell. If you go into Lidl

14:59

or Aldi, it's the sweet aisles

14:59

you see first. And then on your

15:02

last aisle, it's the Daz and the

15:02

toilet roll and the stuff that

15:05

you don't need. So you should

15:05

never shop hungry, as they say,

15:09

from that point of view. So that

15:09

kind of psychological

15:12

manipulation is everywhere, and

15:12

it's really difficult to be

15:16

immune to the triggers or to not

15:16

fall for that trick. And

15:21

children are being promoted to

15:21

create pester power to create

15:26

the nagging 'but so and so gets

15:26

more, and they have no problem

15:30

to treat' and you're comparing

15:30

Parent to Parent. So it is

15:34

really, really difficult in

15:34

today's climate, especially

15:37

where we have so much of the

15:37

temptation in our wake to

15:41

actually keep discipline. But as

15:41

the adult in the room, we

15:46

sometimes have to give our

15:46

children what they need, not

15:48

what they want. that can be very

15:48

difficult. But I think the year

15:52

that has been in it, has been a

15:52

real component in this. I

15:56

remember saying to my sister

15:56

last year, you know, what are

15:59

you giving up for Lent? And she

15:59

said, "absolutely nothing, food

16:01

is all I have left". There was

16:01

so much that we had given up.

16:05

And so things that we would have

16:05

rewarded children with like

16:09

going to the cinema, or going to

16:09

the Play barn, or, you know,

16:12

we'll do this, we'll do that. It

16:12

just became the default position

16:16

was the treat press. So I do

16:16

think, however difficult it was

16:21

in February 2020, it's quite a

16:21

bit more difficult now.

16:25

It's not just about

16:25

treats. I think we are here and

16:29

there the start campaign, and

16:29

we're talking about treats

16:31

today. I'm a bit biased. But

16:31

what START does well, is to talk

16:36

about different health behaviors

16:36

in a very positive way. And that

16:41

acknowledging that it's very

16:41

difficult for all of us. We

16:45

often say that start is a

16:45

campaign from parents, for

16:48

parents. That's not just a

16:48

tagline, we actually talk to

16:52

parents in different communities

16:52

and we try to understand what

16:56

the challenges are and what they

16:56

are readyto take on and to

17:00

change because the last year was

17:00

very difficult for everyone. But

17:06

I think we are now in a better

17:06

place. It's encouraging to see

17:10

parents willing and wanting to

17:10

change and to try new things. I

17:14

do think that it's important to

17:14

involve the child, and that the

17:18

child has some ownership on that

17:18

decision and on that plan. I

17:23

think it's important that then

17:23

we we lead by example, as

17:26

parents, too.

17:27

We were having the chats actually there, Joanna, just before we came on, and you

17:29

mentioned the things that treats

17:33

are displacing and perhaps

17:33

that's really something that we

17:35

as parents need to think about.

17:35

Especially because over the

17:38

course the pandemic like the

17:38

guys have pointed out, we may be

17:41

handed kids treats, we treated

17:41

ourselves an awful lot more,

17:45

because life was really tough.

17:45

You were just taking your little

17:48

joys where you could get them

17:48

but then they obviously became a

17:51

habit.

17:52

That's an important

17:52

point, because it's not just

17:56

about healthy weight. So, first

17:56

of all, it's about having a

17:59

healthy relationship with food,

17:59

and Donal was talking about what

18:03

tracks into adulthood. I do feel

18:03

that positive relationship with

18:08

with food also tracks into

18:08

adulthood. So that's important.

18:11

But it's also about displacing

18:11

other foods. And that's why

18:15

sometimes it's important to make

18:15

those swaps. So, is your child

18:19

genuinely hungry, and do you

18:19

need to give them something when

18:22

they finish school go off to

18:22

football practice? The packet of

18:27

crisps is not going to give them

18:27

any calcium or any protein, or

18:31

any vitamins and minerals that

18:31

they do need for growth and

18:34

development. So just to keep

18:34

that in mind sometimes, and to

18:38

be very realistic, too. If your

18:38

child is looking for a packet of

18:41

crisps, you're not going to

18:41

offer them and it's not going to

18:45

work. So, maybe some crackers

18:45

and some cheese, maybe some

18:48

popcorn. I would invite

18:48

everyone to check our website

18:52

because we have very

18:52

practicaladvice and we all need

18:54

very practical advice to be able

18:54

to change something.

19:01

When you were talking

19:01

about the promotion to kids. If

19:05

you go into the supermarket, the

19:05

products are placed very

19:09

cleverly. So for the three year

19:09

olds, the products are a little

19:13

lower, they are designed in both

19:13

taste and packaging to appeal to

19:17

a three year olds are at a three

19:17

year olds eye level. Seven year

19:20

olds are a bit taller. So the

19:20

dairy products and the sweets

19:24

that are again, targeted at that

19:24

age group with taste,

19:29

development done so that it's a

19:29

bliss point for the seven year

19:33

olds. That's another problem

19:33

with the treat culture is that

19:39

if the child's palate gets

19:39

habituated to sweet at a young

19:45

age and we're designed to like

19:45

sweet because that's the

19:50

earliest energy we took on board

19:50

when we were single cellular

19:53

organisms. So sweet is good. But

19:53

if you get used to sweet you You

20:00

won't diversify, or you will

20:00

diversify with great difficulty

20:03

to the foods that are healthy

20:03

and full of vitamins, fiber and

20:09

minerals that we need for good

20:09

health.

20:12

That's very interesting to say that Donal, because, you know I have seven

20:13

[children] and I thought, you

20:18

know, I weined them all the same

20:18

and introduced them all to the

20:21

same foods. And yet there are some of them, who are their mother's children and have

20:23

incredibly sweet teeth. When the

20:28

apples don't fall that far from

20:28

the tree, you know, you do feel

20:31

a certain degree of responsibility. But the other side of it is, and I actually

20:33

don't know, sometimes what's the

20:36

best thing to do here so I'm

20:36

really curious to hear your

20:38

views on this. If your child

20:38

won't eat anything, and will

20:42

actually go hungry, rather than

20:42

have a food that isn't quite as

20:46

good for them. What do you do?

20:46

particularly if it's like the

20:50

school day, and you're trying

20:50

to make the lunch and most

20:52

schools have the Healthy Eating

20:52

policies, and they're sending

20:55

you home advice that involves

20:55

raw vegetables and fruit and

20:59

your child doesn't eat an apple

20:59

unless it's peeled, and they

21:01

might eat carrots with their dinner, but they're certainly not eating them cold. You're

21:03

just thinking, if I put a CoCo

21:06

pop bar in there, they might eat

21:06

that at least, and they'll have

21:08

something to sustain them.

21:08

What's the right thing to do? Do

21:11

we dig the heels in? Or do we go

21:11

something is better than

21:16

I think you need to

21:16

use your judgment. First of all,

21:16

nothing? are you really worried about

21:20

your child not getting any

21:22

nutrition. If you do have

21:22

worries in relation to a child

21:27

being underweight, you should

21:27

definitely go and talk to your

21:30

healthcare professional, because

21:30

there may be something there

21:32

that needs to be explored

21:32

further. You need to expose them

21:37

to food literally not just

21:37

taste. From a very early age,

21:42

they should be able to touch to

21:42

smell. Involve them. Now, it's

21:45

easier said than done. You're

21:45

busy at home trying to raise

21:49

two, three children, you're not

21:49

going to try and get them to

21:53

chop vegetables with you or to

21:53

see how you do it. It's

21:55

difficult, but it's the way to

21:55

go to expose them to foods. Give

21:59

them time, it may take between

21:59

10 to 15 times for a child to

22:03

get used to a flavor. And also

22:03

to acknowledge that there are

22:06

foods that they don't like. I

22:06

don't eat strawberries every

22:10

day. And that's okay! once they

22:10

are not restricting a huge group

22:17

of foods completely, that's

22:17

fine. Now, if your child doesn't

22:21

eat fruit and vegetables, no

22:21

[that's not fine?] but if the

22:23

child doesn't eat strawberries

22:23

and broccoli, and they're fine

22:26

with everything else, then I

22:26

wouldn't have major concerns and

22:29

they are entitled not to like

22:29

one or two types of food.

22:32

So do you then encourage your child to [unfinished sentence @22.32 mins?]

22:35

Now keep calm. No

22:35

pressure. Don't fight over food,

22:40

you don't want them to, in any

22:40

way to develop an unhealthy

22:44

relationship with food. But yes,

22:44

find things that they like, [for

22:50

example] if they definitely

22:50

don't want peppers or apples,

22:54

but they are happy to bring a

22:54

pear or or a banana. So talk to

22:58

them, see what they want what

22:58

they like. Start small, use and

23:06

use other strategies like mixing

23:06

those foods, if you're talking

23:09

about vegetables, with foods

23:09

that they actually like in a

23:12

sandwich, for example. So, it

23:12

needs a bit of thought.

23:15

To build on that there is

23:15

a question. A four year old who

23:23

eats only bread, drinks milk,

23:23

and eats watermelon or

23:27

strawberries. That's great.

23:27

Trust the child and try and add

23:35

things. They want sweets, and

23:35

you're at your wit's end. So you

23:39

have to limit the sweets. But if

23:39

a child is working off the food

23:45

pyramid, all the good shelves

23:45

and top shelf is little you keep

23:51

that little, then you can trust

23:51

the child's hunger, you can

23:54

trust the child's sense of

23:54

fullness and satiety and then

24:00

gradually try to broaden out.

24:02

I think that's a

24:02

very important conversation,

24:05

we're talking about treats and

24:05

moderating them. And sometimes

24:08

we touch on limiting but I think

24:08

we also need to focus on adding

24:12

because there are plenty of

24:12

foods that we can very slowly

24:15

add to our children's diets and

24:15

they will see the benefit of it

24:18

If you do have a

24:18

child like Trish there who has a

24:21

child that has what appears to

24:21

be quite a restricted diet, and

24:25

there's some healthy options in

24:25

there. Is that okay? Is it okay

24:29

to accept that your child?

24:31

It's okay. I would

24:31

definitely encourage parents

24:37

then to introduce and try to go

24:37

with foods that will have a

24:41

similar consistency and flavor

24:41

at first, but definitely you

24:46

need to encourage variety there.

24:47

You want to come in on that Coleman?

24:49

we sometimes are not

24:49

introduced to different foods,

24:53

so we facilitate the fussy eater

24:53

in some respects. I wouldn't

24:59

be encouraging anyone to have

24:59

six pots on the go with six

25:02

different dinners for six

25:02

different children's needs. But

25:06

we can build things in. We have

25:06

to be encouraging children to

25:09

take on the choice of taste. So

25:09

oftentimes children go, I don't

25:13

like that but you've never tried

25:13

it.. So reward the effort, not

25:17

the outcome, reward them for

25:17

trying the new thing. Whether

25:20

they like it or not. But their

25:20

pallet will increase. It's very

25:24

few children, like starving in

25:24

that sense. I've seen my own

25:29

kids, and they would find a heal

25:29

of bread, and they'd be chewing

25:32

away on that in between, if they

25:32

didn't like the dinner that was

25:37

on or whatever. The case is

25:37

about broadening the range. But

25:41

again, not forcing and not

25:41

making a big issue. Less is more

25:45

when it comes to mealtime

25:45

battles. For me, I just think if

25:48

we have this huge tension around

25:48

it, it becomes a point of

25:52

visibility. This is how I get

25:52

attention in the family just by

25:56

saying I don't eat that. And

25:56

then the big uproar that

25:58

follows, oftentimes won't end up

25:58

in them eating it but it will

26:03

end up in a big row. Smaller

26:03

children especially, are very

26:08

irrational beings, from the

26:08

point of view that they can't

26:11

find their shoes, but they can

26:11

find that sliver of onion in the

26:13

bolognese that you tried to

26:13

sieve out!. And so from the

26:16

point of view of it isn't about,

26:16

again, what they want, but more

26:20

about what they need.

26:22

You know, when you

26:22

have a birthday party, or you

26:26

have an occasion, and there's

26:26

some parent who you thinks they

26:29

have sussed out the whole diet

26:29

thing, you don't see their child

26:33

inhaling chocolate on a daily

26:33

basis. But then they go to a

26:37

party, and then you have a

26:37

totally different situation.

26:39

Does restriction perhaps make

26:39

foods more attractive? Do you

26:44

have this whole idea that you

26:44

will see the child who is never

26:46

allowed to ordinarily have

26:46

treats or certainly has them on

26:49

a very restricted basis, go

26:49

crazy when there's a free for

26:53

all, and there are sweets in

26:53

front of them? I suppose in the

26:57

nature of parties, you can go

26:57

and help yourself generally. Is

27:00

that just coincidence? Or is

27:00

there something about it?

27:04

I'll leave the bit

27:04

about what the child feels. But

27:09

I do think we need to

27:09

acknowledge that we celebrate

27:12

with food we celebrate with

27:12

treats. We start Christmas, the

27:15

week after Halloween, we bring

27:15

it until mid January and then we

27:20

have chocolate or easter eggs

27:20

for Easter on the shelf. So we

27:27

are exposed to these

27:27

availability of treat foods,

27:31

they are also very affordable.

27:31

So it's very difficult for

27:34

parents to navigate that and for

27:34

the child because as Donal was

27:38

saying, the child knows exactly

27:38

what they are. My children, we

27:42

brought them to Frankfurt many

27:42

years ago, and they wanted to

27:46

visit the Haribo factory, I

27:46

didn't even know that Haribo

27:49

were based in Germany, but they

27:49

did and they were small. So I do

27:55

think that's very tricky.

27:55

Birthday parties and

27:57

celebrations definitely don't

27:57

make things easier for parents.

28:01

I would never suggest that

28:01

restricting a certain type of

28:04

food is the way to go andit

28:04

would definitely impact on the

28:10

child's relationship with food.

28:11

Yes, prohibition

28:11

doesn't work. It either

28:14

demonizes something to the

28:14

extreme, or It specializes

28:18

something into something that

28:18

it's not. So I mean, again,

28:22

getting off the good/ bad food

28:22

narrative, but a narrative of

28:25

good and bad amounts of food

28:25

would be what I would suggest.

28:27

And again, that kid at the party

28:27

who gets their hands on

28:31

something that they've not had

28:31

for months, of course they're

28:34

going to kind of overindulge in

28:34

that moment. But again, I just

28:40

think moderation and middle of

28:40

the round all the time, rather

28:43

than any sort of extreme

28:43

conversations around food. I

28:46

think extreme conversations

28:46

creates extreme relationships

28:50

with food, weight and shape.

28:52

And I think for parents is important to acknowledge that we make a plan

28:54

and we try our best to [stick to

28:58

it] and I'm sure we all did it

28:58

here. Then sometimes life gets

29:02

in the way and we don't do as

29:02

well the following weekend. It's

29:05

actually fine to have that

29:05

conversation again and to

29:09

restart and reset the clock and

29:09

to try again.

29:13

When we're talking

29:13

about labels on foods - what's a

29:16

good food? What's a bad food?

29:16

What's an okay food? Do you

29:19

think that's that's kind of

29:19

healthy? Or that it's a good way

29:22

to go? Is this the sort of thing

29:22

that we should be encouraging

29:25

our children to be aware of? I

29:25

suppose, Donal, for you to see

29:30

certain foods labeled as good or

29:30

bad. Is that helpful in the

29:34

whole fight against obesity?

29:36

I don't think so. I think

29:36

it's important to know what

29:40

you're eating. I think it's

29:40

important in the environment, we

29:45

live in that, you know, if

29:45

you're having a cappuccino and a

29:51

muffin, you know that that's

29:51

probably 550 calories and maybe

29:55

close to half your total daily

29:55

energy requirements when you're

29:59

just sitting down for have an 11

29:59

o'clock snack. So I think things

30:04

like calorie posting on menu

30:04

boards are good for adults, and

30:07

that educates us. And then we

30:07

can transfer that to the kids

30:12

when we're choosing for the

30:12

younger kids. Food labeling is

30:20

very important, in general,

30:20

anything that had been

30:23

vehemently opposed by the food

30:23

industry is highly likely to

30:28

work. So food labeling has been

30:28

opposed, clear food labeling,

30:33

the traffic light system that

30:33

goes red for high in all the

30:38

things that [aren't good for

30:38

you], then amber, and green for

30:43

the foods that are clearly

30:43

mineral rich and fiber filled.

30:48

That's what consumers have asked

30:48

for. And it's vehemently opposed

30:53

by the food and drinks industry

30:53

as over simplistic. Good food,

30:58

bad food is not the concept we

30:58

want to bring into the home or

31:04

into the kitchen and focus on

31:04

weight shape and health is that

31:09

the term used? I like those

31:09

three together, we want health

31:16

to be in there all the time. One

31:16

of the star campaigns involved

31:24

portraying the parent as a hero.

31:24

And for me, that's what the

31:29

parent has to feel. The parent

31:29

has to feel good about

31:33

moderating the crap that the

31:33

kids are getting, and the kids

31:38

job is to get as much of that as

31:38

they can. So I was just

31:44

interested, at what age do you

31:44

involve a child in that

31:49

conversation in the family,

31:49

because there's no point in

31:51

talking to the three year old at

31:51

all. I know its a little

31:56

different for every child.

31:58

I mean, I think you

31:58

drip feed the knowledge,

32:01

according to their developments.

32:01

As they get a little bit older,

32:03

you're able to kind of decide a

32:03

little bit for them, like

32:06

regulation. The core aspect of

32:06

being a parent is to become

32:11

redundant. So what you want is

32:11

for them to not need you

32:14

anymore. So you should be

32:14

stepping back and allowing them

32:17

more control over their own

32:17

choices. But it's oftentimes

32:21

best done when they show you.

32:21

For example, it's not a human

32:25

right to have a treat. But it's

32:25

a responsibility to be able to

32:29

open the treat press and go at

32:29

it for yourself. So you don't

32:33

get the rights before you show

32:33

the responsibility, you show the

32:35

responsibility first, and then

32:35

you earn the right does that

32:38

make sense? And so from the

32:38

point of view of it's about

32:40

trial and error, and about

32:40

children and giving them

32:43

choices, and they will fail,

32:43

they will make bad choices,

32:45

they'll eat too much, they'll

32:45

indulge too much. But then they

32:50

don't get the choice the next

32:50

time until they start making

32:52

smarter choices. So I always use

32:52

the example of if you want your

32:55

child in at eight o'clock over

32:55

the summer, and they want to

32:58

come in at 10 Say to them come

32:58

in at eight o'clock, three

33:01

nights in a row, no arguments,

33:01

no rows, and on time, and then

33:04

we'll push to quarter past eight

33:04

and then if at quarter past

33:06

eight they come in three times

33:06

in a row on time with no

33:09

arguments it will go to half 8.

33:09

So you earn the right for more

33:12

choice, rather than opening the

33:12

floodgates early and then try

33:16

and close them. That's when the

33:16

problem is. So you're turning

33:18

around to a 15 year old and

33:18

saying, I know I've never

33:21

limited treats, but we're going

33:21

to start now. That can be a real

33:25

challenge. So it is going to

33:25

start as you mean to go on, but

33:29

I encourage them to self

33:29

regulate, but only at a level

33:32

that they can. I think three

33:32

year olds can't do it. Eight

33:35

year olds can't do it. You're

33:35

talking about starting at around

33:39

13.

33:39

Can you predict when a child can like[start self regulating? (unfinished

33:41

sentence)] I suppose that's a hard one. it really depends on

33:42

how interested they are and the

33:45

whole nutrition side of things

33:45

and the benefits for them.

33:48

I don't think they get

33:48

that till teenage years and

33:51

again, you've tight grip on the

33:51

treat press early and then

33:56

loosening it very slowly. But I

33:56

think really at the point of

34:00

knowing health, weight, that

34:00

those concepts are kind of

34:04

complex.

34:04

I would think about

34:04

the13 / 14 age is and that's

34:09

also mid puberty. And puberty is

34:09

hormones gone mad. Therefore

34:16

your taste and kind of cravings

34:16

vary with with that. And the

34:22

other thing, parents become

34:22

particularly - and I am going to

34:27

say "the enemy" when hormones

34:27

kick in, and that's a natural

34:31

thing. You know, hormones kick

34:31

in, you've reached that stage in

34:34

your life where, as we talked

34:34

about kind of evolutionary

34:38

terms, your job is to push them

34:38

out of the nest and go off and

34:42

make your own life. So you're

34:42

meant to do that to the parents.

34:44

Push them away at the very time

34:44

that the parents are saying

34:47

now's the time to have

34:47

conversation about moderating

34:50

treats. So you know, the the the

34:50

'hero bit', I think is great

34:57

because I think you have to

34:57

navigate within your own family,

35:02

you have to look at your kids

35:02

and go, well where are we

35:06

getting it right? Where could we

35:06

do things differently? And I do

35:13

think access is one thing. It

35:13

applies to anything addictive,

35:18

cigarettes, alcohol, and high

35:18

salt, high fat, high sugar food,

35:23

it's the same part of the brain

35:23

that cigarettes hit and that

35:27

alcohol hits. So if it's in,

35:27

will be consumed. You have to

35:35

have it in. But it has to be in

35:35

quantities that are manageable.

35:46

And when they're gone, they're

35:46

gone.

35:49

That's exactly the sentence that I was thinking of. That's what my mother used to

35:51

say, when we were growing up, I

35:53

can't wait until they're gone -

35:53

If there was a boxing USA

35:55

biscuits, because they weren't

35:55

replenished. You know, once they

35:58

were done, they were done. On

35:58

Thursday, if there was treats

36:01

bought on the Thursday night

36:01

shop and if they were gone by

36:05

Friday, they were never refilled

36:05

till following Thursday. So that

36:10

encourages you to self regulate

36:10

because if you want something on

36:13

Monday, you make it last.

36:16

Do you even notice if

36:16

you go to the supermarket or to

36:18

your local shop, or wherever and

36:18

you're buying treats, it's often

36:22

cheaper to buy the bigger treats

36:22

than to buy the smaller snack

36:25

sized treats. So if you're on a

36:25

budget, and you're trying to buy

36:28

treats to go around to a few

36:28

different people, you're nearly

36:30

encouraged to buy the larger

36:30

treats, still only counting as

36:33

one treat but it's obviously a

36:33

much larger portion than what

36:36

the snack sized treat would be.

36:36

It's so easy to fall into that

36:40

habit really isn't it, it's so

36:40

easy. But just to go back to the

36:43

labels again, and the good food

36:43

and bad food. And again, I

36:46

suppose Coleman, coming back to

36:46

you again on this because it is

36:48

so important when we're trying

36:48

to make sure children and

36:51

teenagers have a healthy

36:51

relationship with food. If you

36:54

label food as a good food or bad

36:54

food, and you're trying to

36:57

educate your child, and again, I

36:57

do understand the whole need to

37:01

teach them to self regulate. But

37:01

is there not a danger then that

37:05

you have kids feeling guilty

37:05

about food or you're literally

37:08

setting them up for feeling

37:08

they've done something wrong in

37:12

having a treat instead of it being a treat?

37:14

you'll always have the

37:14

extreme reactions to these

37:16

things where we just said that

37:16

over the pandemic, we saw a huge

37:20

increase in treats. We've also

37:20

seen a huge increase in eating

37:23

disorders over the pandemic. So

37:23

we've seen huge presentation of

37:26

children who've over controlled

37:26

their intake and you know,

37:30

watching these YouTube workout

37:30

videos five and six times a day

37:33

andwho take it excessively. So

37:33

it all depends on the person.

37:38

Watch the 'counting steps' it

37:38

might be a very useful thing for

37:41

someone trying to be healthier.

37:41

But, if you put that in the

37:43

hands of a very self conscious

37:43

14 year old girl who's really

37:47

struggling with self esteem and it could become the most dangerous thing you'd ever put

37:48

on their arms. So all these

37:52

things have the potential for

37:52

[unfinished sentence] but when

37:55

we go back to the relationship

37:55

with food weight and shape and

37:57

the good and bad foods the

37:57

extremes. And again, I don't

38:00

know whether you can even trust

38:00

labels, you can have this kind

38:03

of water meadow drink and it

38:03

looks like it's amazing but,

38:07

there's 17 bowls of sugar in it.

38:07

So there's something a bit

38:11

distressing about that. There

38:11

was a question just in there I

38:13

saw about using treat as a

38:13

reward. So I think it may have

38:17

been about a school teacher who

38:17

rewarded children with sweets on

38:20

a Friday if they did well on a

38:20

test. I'm not so much against

38:24

reward, I am against using it as

38:24

a soother for distress. So when

38:30

we have difficulty with food

38:30

relationships, in terms of like

38:33

binge eating disorder, people

38:33

will oftentimes turn to food

38:38

because they feel bad or they

38:38

feel that the food will make

38:42

them feel better or else not

38:42

eating will make them feel

38:46

better. So the idea that if I

38:46

control my weight, I feel that

38:49

I'm in charge of something.

38:49

That's where the relationship

38:52

becomes dangerous, in the fact

38:52

where it becomes a coping

38:57

strategy to either overeat or

38:57

under eat.The issue is that the

39:01

food is not the problem. But

39:01

it's becoming a coping strategy

39:04

for the problem. And so, when

39:04

we're looking at how these

39:07

relationships form, [we like

39:07

rewarding a child or get like,

39:13

if you win something getting a

39:13

bag in Haribos and stuff that's

39:16

part of life.] I don't think

39:16

that's a desperately bad

39:19

message. But it's almost like

39:19

saying, you know, if you're sad,

39:23

there's a liquor cabinet, you

39:23

know, have at it and it'll make

39:25

you feel better.

39:26

Yes, it's when you

39:26

normalize rewarding behavior

39:32

And the food industry

39:32

have very much used the 'treat

39:32

with food. yourself you deserve it' over

39:40

the last two or three years to

39:46

normalize the concept and to

39:46

link treat inextricably, to

39:53

sweets, chocolates, biscuits,

39:53

and it's very clever. So I think

40:02

they have ownership of the term

40:02

treat. A treat now means only

40:07

one thing. We mentioned reward,

40:07

you can't replace a treat, which

40:15

is a this minute thing with a

40:15

trip to the cinema or a walk, or

40:21

a game of football at the

40:21

weekend. Because they're not the

40:25

same thing.

40:25

It's immediate rewarding.

40:27

Yes, so it's moderating

40:27

and it's about people being

40:35

aware of that and saying, right,

40:35

look, it's an uphill battle, but

40:41

we can try to do better.

40:43

Isn't it interesting

40:43

how the narrative has changed. I

40:45

think when I was growing up, it

40:45

was junk food. Now it's treats.

40:48

It's even turned into something

40:48

positive. I don't remember being

40:54

called treats when we were

40:54

growing up, it was junk food.

40:57

I know, we've looked

40:57

at the whole idea of looking at

41:00

it beyond just obesity and

41:00

beyond shape, and things like

41:05

that. But if there is a parent

41:05

out there who is aware that one

41:09

of their children is overweight,

41:09

and they want to do something

41:12

about it. They know that treats

41:12

or junk food has been a

41:16

significant contributing factor

41:16

to it. They know that this is

41:19

something that they need to

41:19

change. How do they address

41:23

that? We've talked about

41:23

discussing it as a health

41:27

benefit and stuff. But if you're

41:27

very conscious that maybe a more

41:30

drastic change needs to happen

41:30

to try and get a child's weight

41:34

under control. How do you

41:34

address that without making a

41:38

child feel really bad or feel

41:38

they're being punished? Because

41:41

the language has changed, and it

41:41

has moved from junk food to

41:43

treats, like you pointed out

41:43

there. How do we do that?

41:47

I think you incentivize

41:47

health, and you sell it and you

41:50

pitch it as something that is

41:50

positive, as opposed to just

41:54

kind of punitive sanction based

41:54

you're not good enough, because

41:58

you don't control your weight

41:58

and or you're not disciplined

42:01

enough or this is not

42:01

acceptable.It's almost a concern

42:05

that you could get a lot more

42:05

out of your life, if you had

42:09

more energy, if you were able to

42:09

kind of get some fresh air to be

42:13

more active, these are things

42:13

that will offer you something as

42:17

opposed to necessarily it being

42:17

critical.

42:20

We also know that because

42:20

there's such a strong genetic

42:24

component to weight gain, that

42:24

if there is a child with

42:29

overweight, that it's likely at

42:29

least one of the parents will

42:34

have struggled and have

42:34

overweight or obesity. So that

42:39

parents saying, I've decided I

42:39

need really need to do something

42:43

and get healthier, will you help

42:43

me? And what can we do, and

42:52

involving the child and helping

42:52

the parent, and as a whole

42:58

family thing is the only way.

42:58

Focus on the child, I would say,

43:06

is a highly likely to end not

43:06

well, no and not positively.

43:10

[change to not end well or on a

43:10

positve note?]

43:12

Also, the success of

43:12

something like an exercise

43:15

regime, if it's done in company

43:15

is way more likely than if

43:18

you're trying to do it solo. If

43:18

you have someone else who's

43:22

journeying with you and will go

43:22

for a walk every day. And this

43:26

is the thing, cultures are

43:26

always difficult to introduce in

43:29

the house. So for the first six

43:29

weeks it will be a Battlezone.

43:33

And people will go [hesitiant

43:33

noises]. But after six weeks, it

43:37

just becomes what you do [the

43:37

norm?] once you can get past the

43:40

initial resistance. For example,

43:40

say you go for a walk on a

43:44

Sunday, your teenagers will moan

43:44

about that for the first six or

43:48

seven times you do it. But then

43:48

it'll just be what you do on a

43:51

Sunday. Culture has to be

43:51

created. It's not something that

43:55

you can just invent overnight.

43:55

You have to kind of sit with the

43:59

disgruntlement in the initial

43:59

phases for that to become a habit.

44:03

That's something I didn't

44:03

realize, for a long time working

44:07

in the field weight management.

44:07

It's that the six week /40 days

44:16

period is almost a magic number

44:16

to change or begin to change a

44:23

habit or begin to change a

44:23

culture. So, if you know that

44:28

then you're prepared for the

44:28

four to six weeks of uphill

44:33

failure and then things should

44:33

begin to get a little bit, I

44:38

wouldn't say easy, but easier

44:38

after that because a lot of

44:44

people would give up after a

44:44

fortnight. [They would think?]

44:46

Oh my God, look, it's a

44:46

disaster. Whereas, if you know

44:49

you have another four weeks to

44:49

push through and as parents, you

44:53

need to keep taking the lead.

44:53

You just may get there.

44:59

That is important,

44:59

isn't it? Any change you're

45:01

looking to make, it's to be made

45:01

as a family. It's not you or she

45:06

or he, it's us. I think that's

45:06

empowering for both the parent

45:10

and the child.

45:11

I'm conscious that

45:11

we're going to come to some of

45:14

the viewers questions now in a

45:14

second Joanna, but I just wanted

45:16

to address something. Again, there were conversations happening just before we went

45:18

live. Parents not really knowing

45:23

what treats are and the amount

45:23

of foods. [that we were sitting

45:25

here feeling a little bit small,

45:25

you know, because we gave them a

45:28

yogurt, it's yogurt to name but

45:28

perhaps not totally, not totally

45:33

healthy for them.]

45:34

It's still a yogurt.

45:34

Donal touched there on the

45:38

labels and it's important. Some

45:38

yogurts will will hit the red

45:43

sticker for some nutrients. When

45:43

we talk about treat foods

45:47

strictly, you're talking about

45:47

crisp, chocolates, sweets, cakes

45:53

and ice cream. And then of

45:53

course, just with any food,

45:58

there are two extremes for each

45:58

food group and you can get

46:05

better quality or not. [For

46:05

example, we talk about whole

46:08

grain cereals, we talk about

46:08

vegetable spreads instead of

46:15

butter.] But I think the focus

46:15

on treats should be if you look

46:19

at the food pyramid at the top

46:19

shelf in red. It's quite subtle,

46:24

but it's actually disconnected

46:24

from the rest of the pyramid.

46:27

And that's to translate the

46:27

message that we don't need them

46:30

for health. We don't get

46:30

essential nutrients from them.

46:35

Okay, well, before we

46:35

go to the viewers questions, can

46:38

I ask you [to give?] your top

46:38

tips for broaching this

46:41

conversation with your children?

46:41

This whole idea of broaching the

46:44

need to moderate treats?

46:46

I think for me, first

46:46

of all to know that you're not

46:49

alone. That we all have the same

46:49

challenges and struggles. I

46:53

think that's important. Aim for

46:53

something achievable and

46:57

acknowledge that it's going to

46:57

be difficult.

47:00

Okay. Coleman.

47:01

Yes, I think keep it

47:01

about health, not about weight.

47:04

Be patient, because it's not

47:04

going to be easy to do. And just

47:08

be aware of maybe how we're

47:08

being manipulated, I guess,

47:12

through the marketing things and

47:12

be a critical consumer. That's

47:18

what I'm going to take from

47:18

tonight anyway, from talking to

47:21

the guys.

47:22

Yes. I think I wouldn't

47:22

really add much [more?] to that.

47:26

I think be aware. I think that

47:26

to do it within your family. I

47:33

think the hero tagline is really

47:33

good. Parents need to become

47:36

heroes in the face of a food

47:36

industry that are only thinking

47:41

about this year's profit, and

47:41

nothing beyond that. The parents

47:46

are thinking about the next 70

47:46

years for their kids, and trying

47:50

to overcome that power of the

47:50

food industry. So, if they know

47:58

they're up against it, and then

47:58

if they have a conversation as

48:02

'us' , [and discuss?] what way

48:02

can we change things to make our

48:09

lives a little healthier. Then

48:09

there is that six week

48:15

[timeline?] don't give up until

48:15

you've given it a six week go.

48:19

If at the end of six weeks, that

48:19

particular change hasn't worked.

48:23

Look at one other. One thing at

48:23

a time, one small change, don't

48:31

try three things.

48:34

Just to say, Donal

48:34

touched there on the hero

48:36

tagline and I find that tagline

48:36

quite empowering, too. Someone

48:40

was asking about grandparents

48:40

and how to talk [to them about

48:44

changes?]. I think it's actually

48:44

very empowering to say to

48:46

someone, look, we looked at what

48:46

we were doing at home, we want

48:50

to make some changes. And I

48:50

would really appreciate if you

48:53

could support us here. So, if

48:53

the kids are going to stay over,

48:56

we do try to think about

48:56

something beforehand. But we are

48:59

trying to manage treats, and we

48:59

made a plan and we would like to

49:03

stick to that as much as

49:03

possible. I think it's actually

49:05

okay to talk to other people

49:05

about it. And you'll actually

49:09

find out that other people have

49:09

similar struggles to yours and

49:14

similar challenges.

49:16

Yeah, I don't think your child will ever thank you for being strict. But they

49:18

certainly won't thank you for

49:22

not managing it for them either.

49:22

It goes back to Donal's point,

49:26

if at 18, you have a good

49:26

relationship, it's a lifelong

49:29

habit. Whereas if you don't,

49:29

that's a lifelong habit too. So

49:33

just because they're not

49:33

grateful, doesn't mean it's not

49:36

important.

49:37

I think we'll go to

49:37

some of the questions now will

49:40

we because there's loads that

49:40

have come in, absolutely loads.

49:42

I can see one there from Sabrina

49:42

asking, if a child doesn't eat a

49:45

meal you make do you give them

49:45

something else that they will

49:48

eat? I suppose that's what we

49:48

were talking about a little bit

49:50

earlier on those battles, do you

49:50

make them finish their corn? Do

49:53

you offer them something else or

49:53

do you let them go hungry? Do

49:55

you remmeber the days where your

49:55

mother reheated your dinner for

49:59

your breakfast the next morning

49:59

if you didn't eat it! Is that

50:01

what we should be doing?

50:03

Yes, don't make a

50:03

battlefield out of the dining

50:06

table. For sure, try your best

50:06

and see if there is, depending

50:11

on what you're eating, a bit of

50:11

the meal that the child can eat?

50:15

Can you negotiate a bit, and

50:15

try to expose them to those

50:19

foods? Or is there a genuine

50:19

dislike for something? But I

50:23

would definitely not put any

50:23

pressure or don't make it

50:29

confrontational it wont lead to

50:29

anything.

50:32

Agreed lads? Yes.

50:33

Be very patient.

50:36

Emma is asking what

50:36

healthy snacks can we give our

50:39

children?

50:39

I would ask Emma to

50:39

check our website or the HSE.

50:44

The guidelines have a huge suite

50:44

of resources with ideas. Again,

50:49

does your child need something

50:49

very light such as a piece of

50:51

fruit yogurt? Two or three

50:51

crackers? Or do you need

50:55

something a bit more

50:55

substantial? Like half of a

50:58

bagel with a bit of peanut

50:58

butter? Does the child need a

51:01

piece of toast and a bit of

51:01

cheese and tomato before going

51:05

to football practice? There's

51:05

plenty of ideas. So I would

51:09

definitely go to the Safefood or

51:09

the HSE website for those.

51:13

Okay, we had another viewer I can't see the question there now but there was somebody

51:15

there, just asked there a few

51:17

minutes ago. In the case of

51:17

separated parents where mom is

51:20

very conscious to make sure that

51:20

the child only has a certain

51:23

number of treats. But when the

51:23

child goes to dad, all those

51:26

rules are out the window, how do

51:26

you balance that? Because that's

51:30

a different [unfinished sentence].

51:31

Very carefully would be

51:31

my answer to that. I think that

51:33

the triangulation of a

51:33

separation, the child becomes a

51:37

token of the currency of good

51:37

cop, bad cop and all that sort

51:40

of stuff. And this would be a

51:40

symptom of their relationship,

51:44

as opposed to necessarily

51:44

anything that could be fixed in

51:47

isolation. So, I don't think

51:47

it's about the treats. But it is

51:50

about being the favorite. And

51:50

it's a bit like the

51:53

grandparents, we don't like

51:53

saying no to them because

51:55

they'll be in bad form. You can

51:55

try and explain what you'd like,

51:59

and try to explain what you're

51:59

trying to do. But I think that

52:03

may go deeper than just a

52:03

conversation perhaps.

52:08

I suppose it's the

52:08

same that we saw there again,

52:10

think about the teacher, maybe

52:10

giving treats at the end [of the

52:13

week?] I suppose it is the same sort of thing, isn't it? Perhaps with grandparents, it's a treat.

52:14

So I know, my own my own pair

52:19

stuff as well. You're often

52:19

cursing what they give. But is

52:22

that not a privilege of being a

52:22

grandparent, is there not a

52:25

difficulty there? I know you

52:25

want to keep people on board.

52:28

But you are also talking to

52:28

somebody who has raised a family

52:31

and might feel a bit put out to

52:31

suggest [unfinished sentence]

52:35

It's really hard.

52:36

Grandparents can be

52:36

hypocritical as well. I find

52:38

that my parents give my children

52:38

far more treats than they ever

52:41

gave me! I don't mind it in the

52:41

points that I see them coming

52:47

home in the car and they have smuggled jaffa cakes or something up their sleeves, that

52:49

nana has given them on the way

52:51

out. Once it's in moderation, I

52:51

don't think it's necessarily a

52:54

source of great argument. And

52:54

again, it's not about ruling out

52:57

every treat and becoming really

52:57

militant about it. Those extreme

53:01

views will create extreme

53:01

relationships. But just within

53:04

reason, maybe asking Nana to

53:04

tone down a little bit rather

53:08

than saying no more treats in Nana's.

53:10

It is all about the language isnt it? I see one there from Bernadette that I

53:12

would say is of particular interest to you, Donal. Should

53:14

government's ban all high sugar,

53:17

fat food and drink advertising

53:17

aimed towards children,

53:20

including those shown on

53:20

technology before watershed.

53:23

This would possibly involve

53:23

taking toys out of cereals and

53:26

meals etc.

53:28

So, I could read that

53:28

sentence for the rest of the

53:31

night and just change

53:31

governments and should around.

53:34

Yes, so governments should act

53:34

and legislate. Not against all

53:45

high fat high sugar food, but

53:45

it's the promotion to children.

53:48

It's the product placement in

53:48

shops. It's the Buy One Get One

53:54

Free bog off promotions, which

53:54

are always of the treat high

53:59

fat, high salt, high sugar

53:59

foods, and never on the fruit or

54:07

healthy sections. So the

54:07

government has a role to play.

54:10

There is a plan for an obesity

54:10

public health act, similar to

54:15

the public health alcohol bill,

54:15

which will look at all these

54:20

things as a suite of measures to

54:20

really effectively help parents

54:26

with making the healthier

54:26

choice, the easier choice and

54:32

that's what society needs to do.

54:32

And that is also going to

54:36

address active transport to and

54:36

from school and issues like that

54:42

because that physical activity

54:42

side of the equation is really

54:46

important. It's about energy

54:46

balance. And you don't address

54:51

energy balance just by looking

54:51

at one side of the equation.

54:56

There are some kids who do so

54:56

much sport that the rules about

55:02

what they should eat and drink,

55:02

there aren't rules, they need to

55:07

trust their hunger, trust their

55:07

satiety, and you hope that their

55:12

focus is a healthy diet. There

55:12

was one question in there from a

55:16

parent, my child loves veg, but

55:16

hates fruit. That's great. You

55:21

know, the seven or five a day

55:21

that we're meant to have from

55:24

the shelf on the food pyramid,

55:24

the more veg and salad there is,

55:31

the better. And if it's all veg

55:31

and salad, that's fine.

55:34

Okay. There was

55:34

actually there was a question

55:36

there as well from a parent

55:36

about a fussy eater. If you have

55:40

a really, really fussy eater,

55:40

and you have somebody who just

55:43

refuses to try a different food,

55:43

what do you do? And I mean,I

55:48

think I own one of them who just

55:48

digs his heels in. I know how

55:53

hard that is, I hear that

55:53

parent. But what do you do?

55:55

Because I want to know!.

55:57

You are a patient,

55:57

don't fight over food, and you

56:00

keep trying. It's hard. It's

56:00

very hard. Now, if you do have

56:05

concerns about your child not

56:05

getting enough nutrients?

56:09

Absolutely, I would definitely

56:09

recommend going to your GP who

56:12

will be able to then direct you

56:12

to registered dietitian.

56:16

Absolutely. But if your child is

56:16

having enough from all the food

56:20

groups, I do think it's about

56:20

exposure and trying again and

56:24

being patient.

56:27

You can contradict me if

56:27

this is wrong, but I've spoken

56:30

to a lot of the psychiatrists

56:30

that I've worked with who work

56:34

with eating disorders, and

56:34

they've had a lot of

56:37

discussions. A focus on healthy

56:37

eating within a family will not

56:44

trigger eating disorders, the

56:44

genesis of eating disorders does

56:49

not come from the focus on

56:49

healthy eating. Now, if that

56:54

focus is obsessive, and if it's

56:54

on bad foods, good foods and

56:59

weight, then that's a different

56:59

thing. But a conversation in a

57:04

family about how can we become a

57:04

bit healthier and discussing

57:08

that we'd like to be healthier,

57:08

and we'd like to eat healthier

57:10

[and questioning] what can we do

57:10

and involving the kids in that

57:15

will not generate an eating

57:15

disorder.

57:18

Yes 100%. Once it's

57:18

not demonized and extreme. It's

57:21

absolutely fine. Actually

57:21

children do pick up on those

57:24

habits.

57:25

The trick is to

57:25

normalize those behaviors. So

57:27

you actually don't have a lot to

57:27

talk about them because they

57:30

become the norm.

57:31

I think we could talk

57:31

about this all night. I'm afraid

57:34

it's time to wrap up. So I think

57:34

we're going to revisit the poll

57:37

again. And to have a look at the

57:37

poll.

57:40

As well while that's

57:40

coming up. I just think there is

57:42

another side. The narrative at

57:42

the moment is a lot about access

57:45

of everything. If you look at

57:45

Emlyn Unlimited, [?] binge

57:48

watch, all you can eat data, all

57:48

these sorts of things. We're not

57:52

immune to that stuff. But it

57:52

normalizes excess. It just means

57:56

we have to be more vigilant and

57:56

on the ball because this stuff

58:01

is everywhere. They're really

58:01

unhelpful turns.

58:05

That binge watch and

58:05

boxsets, everything is in

58:09

excess.

58:13

[Poll Results] So, 40%

58:13

now are very confident and 47%

58:18

quite confident Oh yeah, you actually have 87%

58:19

that are quite or very

58:22

confident, it's very good.

58:23

That is very positive, isn't it? That is absolutely great. So, as I said

58:25

that we could have spent hours

58:28

here and discussing and I have

58:28

certainly learned some useful

58:31

tips. I won't be reheating the

58:31

dinner for breakfast after that.

58:37

I think poll two may be coming

58:37

up or sorry, that was poll

58:40

two.Sorry. We hope that you're

58:40

feeling more confident and

58:42

empowered to start that

58:42

conversation of moderation with

58:45

your own children at home. And

58:45

we just wanted to ask you that

58:49

same question, which is what the

58:49

poll was, and now that you've

58:51

heard from our experts, so if

58:51

you have anything new to add to

58:54

the poll, please do. And it is

58:54

great, absolutely great to see

59:00

that people are feeling so much

59:00

more confident about it now.

59:04

While you're submitting your

59:04

answers, I wanna say a huge

59:06

thank you to our panelists who

59:06

were absolutely brilliant

59:09

tonight. And to everybody at

59:09

home for tuning in. I really

59:12

appreciate it and all the questions that you sent in thanks also to everyone involved

59:14

in the organization and

59:17

production of the webinar. And

59:17

if you want to watch it back,

59:20

it's being recorded and will be

59:20

available on the events section

59:22

of Safefood's website in the

59:22

coming days. It'll also be

59:25

emailed to everybody who

59:25

registered for the event.