Episode Transcript
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0:07
Liz Craven: Hello and welcome back to the Sage Aging Podcast.
0:11
I'm so glad you're here, and whether you're joining us from your favorite
0:14
podcast app and you're listening to us or you're watching us on YouTube, thank
0:19
you for watching and um, we've got a great episode coming up for you today.
0:25
I think that there are a lot of misunderstandings about a
0:28
lot of things when it comes to.
0:31
Aging care. Um, you know, there everything you can think of.
0:35
There's a misconception about, and.
0:38
I really like to be a part of the conversation that clears those things
0:41
up because the more tools you can use as a caregiver and the more ways that
0:46
you can bring help to the family unit as a whole, the happier everyone is and
0:52
the better quality of life everyone has.
0:55
So that's always our aim and I think we're gonna put a dent in
0:58
some of that today for you as well.
1:01
Um, today we are going to talk.
1:04
Assisted living communities. So what do you think of when you think of an assisted living community?
1:10
Are you a person who thinks of fun and engagement and activities and
1:17
high quality of life and great food and parties and great atmosphere?
1:22
Or are you someone who thinks.
1:25
. That's a place that we put our loved ones when we just can't take it anymore.
1:29
When we don't have the ability to care for 'em, we stick 'em in a home.
1:32
How many times have you heard that? Well, I think you're gonna be enlightened by today's conversation.
1:38
I am so excited to have joining me today, Laura Tenpenny.
1:42
Laura Tenpin is the marketing Director for Lake Gibson Village.
1:46
Lake Gibson Village. An independent assisted and memory care community in Lakeland, Florida.
1:53
She's got a lot of experience in this realm, and today she's gonna help us
1:58
bust some of those myths that we've all heard about assisted living.
2:03
So thanks for joining me, Laura. I'm so glad to have you here today.
2:07
, Laura Tenpenny: pleasure to be here, Liz. Thanks for having me.
2:09
Liz Craven: Yeah, of course. This is a long overdue conversation.
2:12
I think , um, this was, this was one of those low hanging fruit.
2:16
I just didn't think of the topic and I think it was, uh, grace who
2:19
works with you, who said, Hey, you guys need to talk about this.
2:23
And my apologies, we're not thinking of it sooner.
2:27
. Laura Tenpenny: Well, you can't think of everything, Liz. You're too amazing already.
2:30
Oh, , Liz Craven: you are very kind.
2:32
Thank you. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Let's start with a little bit of getting to know, Laura.
2:39
I know you pretty well. We've, we've been hanging around for a long time now, but how did you make
2:44
your way into the elder care industry?
2:47
Laura Tenpenny: Well, it was kind of a natural progression.
2:50
Um, I worked for a long time in the hospitality industry, um, here
2:55
in Lakeland, uh, at a few hotels.
2:58
One point, the Sheraton Hotel. Um, so I kind of had, um, some background in guest experience and helping people.
3:07
And, um, in the industry we'd say putting heads in beds.
3:11
Um, so, um, when I was looking to switch gears a little bit, um, I saw an ad
3:17
for, um, uh, the marketing director of a community here in Lakeland, and I
3:21
answered it and I was very fortunate to get to work with, um, a wonderful, um,
3:27
executive director and mentor who kind of really helped me, um, get my feet wet.
3:32
Cuz it is different, but in ways it's the same, you know, you're, you're
3:37
trying to help people have a comfortable stay, whether it's one night or.
3:43
the rest of their lives. But, um, we wanna make sure that it's the right, the right choice.
3:48
So that's kind of where I came from, the hospitality industry, and I transitioned
3:53
into senior care a few years later.
3:56
Liz Craven: And aren't we lucky because you do a phenomenal job.
3:59
You and your team are creative.
4:02
And you're exciting and I absolutely love to come to your community for events
4:08
because it's always a whole lot of fun.
4:10
Thank you. And I can only imagine for those that are living there, what a treat that
4:14
is for them to have all that's going on, and the great food and the great
4:18
environment surrounding them every day. Laura Tenpenny: Yeah.
4:21
Thanks Liz. We appreciate that. Liz Craven: Let's start with a definition.
4:26
I like definitions. I like to make sure that everybody listening has a clear understanding
4:31
of what we're talking about. And I think a lot of people confuse assisted living communities with
4:38
long-term care communities, or some might refer to that as a nursing home,
4:43
also known as skilled nursing community.
4:45
So let's start by defining assisted living so people know what we're talking about.
4:50
Laura Tenpenny: Great. I'd love to do that. So assisted living really is, um, uh, residential communities, um, not
5:00
medical facilities, but they do often as we do have, um, nursing and care,
5:07
um, medically trained people on staff.
5:11
But what assisted living is really offering is a home-like environment
5:17
with that safety and that backup and those people there to help you.
5:22
We are, we're not a medical facility, we're not a nursing
5:24
home, so we can't do a lot of the things that a nursing home can do.
5:28
Um, but we can do a lot of things that, um, that are very
5:33
helpful to keep a person safe. So my, what I tell families is, We wanna give mom or dad their full autonomy to
5:43
live their lives, to come and go, to get engaged, to, uh, just feel, um, uh, um,
5:50
important in their senior years and, and having, um, friendship and socialization
5:57
as safely as possible.
5:59
So we're here for that backup to help them, but we want it to be their home.
6:03
These are not rooms like in a hospital or a nursing home.
6:08
Their homes, their apartments. Liz Craven: To me it's kind of reminiscent of living in a resort.
6:13
I mean, you've got someone cooking all your food for you.
6:17
And there are so many activities and music and there's someone who comes
6:23
to do your hair and I mean, everything you can think of, it's available.
6:28
It's kinda like getting on a cruise ship, I guess, but bigger rooms, you've got a
6:31
whole apartment instead of a small cabin.
6:33
Laura Tenpenny: Yeah. Yeah. We call it a, we call it a, um, some people refer to us as a,
6:38
a cruise ship on, on dry dock, Liz Craven: Oh,
6:41
Laura Tenpenny: it, it does have that feel, has that feeling.
6:43
But yeah, you spoke to some of the things like, I spoke about safety, but yes, the
6:48
meals, all those things that might be a challenge in ho in your home as you.
6:53
Grow older, the cooking, the cleaning, um, the shopping, all, all of that.
6:58
So, you know, we just kind of take that off their plates and, and allow
7:02
them to just really enjoy their lives and, and so important is that
7:06
socialization factor I mentioned earlier
7:08
Liz Craven: Absolutely. Absolutely.
7:10
That's probably to me one of the key factors that leads to quality of life.
7:15
Laura, why do you think there are so many misconceptions about assisted living?
7:21
Laura Tenpenny: Well, I'm glad you asked because I think, and, uh, I just
7:26
imagine, uh, well, I remember being a child myself and going and visiting,
7:32
um, a loved one in a, um, what they call 'em in the old days, an old
7:37
folks home, a nursing home, you know? Yeah.
7:39
Um, So, um, we would go in there and it was just a, um, not, not
7:46
a great experience seeing, you know, people kind of vegetating.
7:49
And what I think is happening is, um, when an older person is, um, hesitant
7:56
to make this type of move, it's because they think they're remembering what
8:00
it was, like what they saw, and, and they're really not um, aware of how
8:06
far this kind of lifestyle has come.
8:10
Um, so, uh, the challenge is to overcome those objections in their mind, and
8:16
really the only way to do that is to just put 'em in the car and sh and
8:20
bring 'em over and, and show them. Let them experience the lifestyle come for an activity, a meal, you
8:28
know, see the people and talk to the people, tell you that's the best is
8:32
when you can go to a community and you can actually have a conversation, uh,
8:38
with, with a resident and hear how, why they chose it and why they like it.
8:43
But I think to answer your question, There's the preconceived notions
8:47
from their experience as a young person visiting their elders.
8:52
And, um, it's just, you know, uh, everybody back in the day, you
8:56
know, we put grandma away, you know, and it's like, we don't, we
8:59
don't put grandma away anymore. Um, that's not what this is about.
9:03
Yeah. Liz Craven: Thank you. That is such a great description.
9:07
And I will also say if you're listening, um, if you go to eldercareguide.com
9:13
and look in the assisted living section, you're gonna find a checklist
9:16
that will allow you to go and visit communities in your own area.
9:21
Um, Take your top three choices and go to those communities and we've got a
9:26
whole questions to ask worksheet for you that can help you ask the right
9:31
questions and be really well educated about your decision, because that's
9:34
a big part about being happy in an assisted living community is finding the
9:39
community that's the right fit for you. There are a lot of great ones, but even a great one might not be the
9:46
right fit for your personality and for what your loved one's desires are.
9:50
So be sure to really check on those.
9:52
But now I wanna get back to it. Let's bust some myths.
9:57
Let's start with myth number one.
10:00
Assisted living is the same thing as a nursing home.
10:04
Laura Tenpenny: Well, um, no, they're not, um, they're not the same thing at all.
10:08
Um, because assisted living is, uh, the, the, the home-like environment where
10:15
you're getting the support that you need. Um, a nursing home is truly a medical, uh, uh, facility, and they're there to.
10:25
Help you convalesce and get stronger.
10:27
So then you might go to an assisted living or, or go back to your home or
10:32
whatever, but it's a medical facility and there are, um, people there that
10:36
are gonna help you in that regard. Um, assisted livings in the state of Florida are, by definition,
10:42
residential, um, homes or facilities.
10:47
Um, there's just a big difference and when you walk in the door,
10:50
you're gonna see the difference. Though there are some very beautiful, skilled nursing
10:55
facilities that look like resorts.
10:58
Um, you, you definitely can tell that these are convalescing.
11:02
They're like a Haas. Hospital type environment, um, versus what you would see in an assisted
11:07
living is, um, uh, just a, a a home-like environment with things
11:13
going on and people interacting, but it's by definition residential.
11:18
And we, we try to, um, our, our tagline is, make the rest of
11:22
your life the best of your life. But we want that to be, um, they're living their best lives and, and, and they.
11:31
Nursing homes get you there so you can do that.
11:35
So yeah, Liz Craven: That's a, that's a, that's a great description
11:39
and yes, a hundred percent.
11:41
So one place you're more like, uh, recovering and healing
11:45
from a big event in your life. And on the other hand, you are living it up.
11:51
Laura Tenpenny: Right, right. Liz Craven: All right, so myth number two, and I hear this so often, if I
11:57
move to an assisted living community, I will lose my independence.
12:02
Laura Tenpenny: Wow. Well, that I do hear, and I, I think that's a challenge,
12:07
um, for a lot of older people. But I would say that when you move to an assisted living community, you
12:14
gain your independence because think about what's happening if you're older
12:20
in your, in your own home and you're kind of, you can't drive anymore.
12:24
Imagine that. So that depend.
12:28
independence has gone away. Um, getting to the store is a challenge.
12:32
Cooking and cleaning is a challenge, so you're kind of almost chained to this, um,
12:39
lifestyle that you can't manage anymore.
12:42
They think that they'll lose their freedom, but instead, when you come to
12:45
assisted living, what are you freed from? Freedom.
12:48
The shackles of all the things that we're holding you back.
12:51
Um, you're provided transportation to go the places you wanna go
12:56
see the people you wanna see. Um, you're not having to go shop anymore because everybody's bringing
13:01
you a beautiful meal three times a day.
13:04
Um, you're getting the socialization, so you're not, you know, a lot of
13:08
times people, when they're living in their home and they're, they can get
13:12
depressed because they're so lonely and alone, even if there's families,
13:18
you know, checking in and everything. Um, so that depression can set in and if there's dementia or any kind of
13:25
memory loss going on, it's a, it's a perfect cocktail for a disaster.
13:30
So, Yeah. So we wanna help people lose that, be free of that, and gain their independence
13:39
and autonomy in a lifestyle where they can enjoy it and, and, um, be safe, um,
13:45
and have people around them to help. Liz Craven: And that's a great point that you brought up about somebody who has
13:51
some cognitive impairment because they are prisoner in their homes, especially I.
13:57
Unfortunately, I've heard of situations where families in an effort to protect
14:03
their loved one, end up putting locks that are inside the door and, ah,
14:08
that just, I'm, no, you can't do that.
14:11
You know, that is, I, I recognize it.
14:14
An effort to protect their loved one from opening the door to strangers,
14:18
but they don't recognize that they're creating a whole host of other dangers
14:24
like the fire department not being able to get in if they need to.
14:27
The police department not being able to enter if they need to when nobody else
14:31
is home, and so freeing of the shackles.
14:34
I love that you said. Uh, for someone who does have some cognitive impairment, it does allow for
14:41
a return of a lot of their independence.
14:43
That is a great point. Laura Tenpenny: Thanks. Liz Craven: Okay, so myth number three is that there is no privacy
14:50
in an assisted living community. Laura Tenpenny: Um, well, I will disagree with that as well,
14:56
and I'll try to bust that myth. Um, so when a resident comes, uh, when a person moves in to a or assisted
15:03
living community, uh, they get their own apartment, so it's their own home.
15:08
And, you know, people do like their quiet time in their private time.
15:11
So, um, you can always go to your apartment and read your book or watch
15:16
your show or whatever it is you do, but, Again, we do have the ability or the
15:22
programs for people to come out and, and get engaged and enjoy them, uh, the
15:28
activities, but certainly, um, there's pri I mean, you have your own private
15:32
apartment, so they have all the privacy they want and some people are more
15:37
reserved and private and don't really, um, Uh, you know, want to interact as much,
15:43
you know, they're just by nature that way.
15:46
Um, and we respect that in every regard.
15:48
But, um, yeah, there's, that's a, that's a myth you can bust out of there.
15:54
It's, no, it's not true. Liz Craven: Awesome, . Awesome.
15:58
Okay, moving on to myth number four.
16:01
Assisted living is just too expensive.
16:05
Laura Tenpenny: That is a good one. And I get that a lot.
16:07
You know why, um, I had this conversation at lunch today with somebody cuz people,
16:11
we are a very, very nice community, a beautiful community, and I, and I take
16:15
pride in, in, in saying that, but, um, because of that, people think that
16:20
maybe we're, um, out of the ballpark, um, price-wise and, and a lot of.
16:25
Places, um, people think that of, um, but there are, um, when you sit
16:31
down and I ch and I ask families to try to do this, just sit down and,
16:35
and make a list of everything you're paying now to live in your own home.
16:41
You know, and you really gotta look hard at that list.
16:44
You know, there's not just the, um, The groceries and the electric
16:49
bill, but there's taxes and insurance and all the things.
16:54
So if you make a list and look at that and then, um, put it next to what it does
17:00
cost to live in assisted living, uh, most families see that it's very comparable
17:05
and sometimes can be even less expensive.
17:08
That said, You're getting so much.
17:10
Everything is inclusive in assisted living.
17:13
Your meals, your housekeeping, your laundry, your utilities.
17:17
So you don't have all these little extras.
17:20
You're not paying for the broken down air conditioner because what, we're gonna
17:24
come to the apartment and fix it for you.
17:26
If the light goes out, we're gonna take care of that.
17:29
So all of those maintenance items kind of go away.
17:32
Um, when you go to assisted living.
17:36
Yeah. So, uh, that's, that's kind of, um, uh, but there's also ways, Liz, I wanna share
17:41
real quick is there, there are, Programs that I, um, one of them in particular
17:47
is called the aid and Attendance Program through the Veterans Administration.
17:51
So if anyone is a veteran or the, um, surviving spouse of a veteran,
17:58
there is a monetary benefit that helps pay for assisted living services.
18:03
So, um, the demographic that we serve, Most, most of them have been
18:08
in the military at one point and, and, um, I share with them this a
18:12
little bit about this benefit and give them resources where they can learn
18:16
more and, and move forward with it.
18:18
But that is a substantial benefit that helps pay for assisted living as well.
18:23
So for most people it is not out of the ballpark to afford
18:27
assisted living services. Liz Craven: Very good point.
18:30
And that's an entire episode all on its own veterans benefits.
18:34
And, and we are, we are working on that.
18:36
So if you're listening and think that's interesting.
18:39
Stay tuned. We've got that coming. Okay.
18:42
Myth number six. And this one, this one I can attest to that it is not.
18:47
True. The food in an assisted living community is institutional, and I won't like it.
18:54
Laura Tenpenny: well. Have you ever eaten at Lake Gibson Village? Liz Craven: Yeah, that's what I say.
18:59
Let me tell you what the dessert at Lake Gibson Village is on par.
19:05
I have been fortunate enough to come to a lot of events there and everything
19:09
from breakfast through a full dinner.
19:13
and the appetizers that go with the wine.
19:16
I, I have always been so impressed and I know that your residents,
19:22
um, they love the food too because they tell me about it all the time.
19:25
And tell me about the things that I've missed. Laura Tenpenny: Yeah, they, they do like the food.
19:29
Um, and they like the wine bar too. You mentioned that.
19:32
So, um, um, but we do have a, an executive chef and most facilities do,
19:38
um, have a, a, a chef who oversees, um, another thing, um, That, um, many
19:45
people don't know is that, you know, the menus have to be approved by a
19:50
dietician for, um, assisted living.
19:52
So the, the food not only has to be beautiful and palatable,
19:56
but it has to meet the needs of these, um, these seniors.
20:00
So, um, it's healthy food.
20:03
It's not, you know, the TV dinners that they might be experiencing
20:07
at home because it's easy. But, um, it's a, it's really, we have a full kitchen, a sous chef, an executive
20:15
chef, and, and most facilities do.
20:18
Um, it's not institutional. So I appreciate your nice comments on our, our, our culinary program.
20:24
Liz Craven: Of course, and you know, if I'm not mistaken, I don't know
20:28
if it was you all, or perhaps it was Florida Presbyterian homes, but one of
20:34
those chef teams won some local awards for the food and competed against
20:40
local restaurants and took the prize.
20:43
So that is definitely a moth, a myth that we can bust today.
20:48
Laura Tenpenny: But, you know, um, just one more thing on that, you know,
20:51
food is probably the most important thing for these residents here.
20:56
I mean, they do look forward to mealtime.
20:59
I mean, as you get older, um, you just, you know, you've appreciate the finer
21:04
things like, but I'll tell you what, you can't mess with the food you have.
21:08
It has to be good. It has to be good
21:10
Liz Craven: Yep. Okay. I've kind of lost track of the numbers, but I think that this is myth number
21:15
seven and the final myth for today, and that is if I move to an assisted
21:21
living community, I'm gonna be bored
21:24
Laura Tenpenny: Oh, okay. So again, um, uh, I've been, I've worked in several assisted livings and I've
21:32
always seen a nice robust activities program, but I mean, you do have to,
21:38
like you said earlier, you have to go and look around and take the tours.
21:44
And see what's going on. Cuz you wanna, you wanna see what the residents are doing.
21:48
There's chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry in the world.
21:50
And the same goes for, um, assisted living.
21:53
So each has their own flavor. You know, some have a, um, a stronger flavor than others.
21:59
Maybe some are more low key. But, um, and for instance, in our assisted living, our program includes boat rides
22:08
on the pontoon boat or, um, going to the casino or, um, you know, doing, um, happy
22:15
hour every Friday with entertainment.
22:18
So, um, But what our activities, girls have done a great job and, and,
22:22
and any activity director worth her grain of salt would be, um, asking
22:26
the residents, what do you wanna do? What do you enjoy?
22:30
And then building your, uh, program around that.
22:34
But the whole point, I think one of the main things about assisted living is
22:38
that socialization and keeping people engaged and active, because that's only
22:43
gonna be better for them in, in their.
22:47
You know, l longevity and helping them enjoy their, their days.
22:52
Um, activity programs are, I mean, just so important, but very, very, um, alive.
23:01
I would say. Very Liz Craven: Absolutely. I would agree with that.
23:04
I would agree with that. And I thought of one more thing that I wanna mention.
23:09
We, this is another myth, we'll call it number eight, because I think
23:13
we really need to address this. Many people believe that when they move into an assisted living
23:19
community, that they do not have the freedom to come and go.
23:23
But barring cognitive impairment issues, , you can have your car and you
23:28
can hop in the car and go for a lunch date with friends and do a lot of the
23:32
activities that you've always done. Laura Tenpenny: Absolutely.
23:35
And we have several residents who are very, um, independent in that regard.
23:39
They're coming and going and doing their own thing.
23:42
In fact, one of our residents, um, he was kind of bumming a ride from
23:46
another resident to go, um, stuff.
23:49
And then a few days ago he bought himself, I think a Mercedes.
23:52
And now he's got, he's got a car now.
23:55
Oh, you see so-and-so's car. So yeah, they, um, You know, if you wanna have your own car, if you wanna go away
24:01
for the weekend to stay with your family, um, or for a month during the holidays,
24:06
whatever, that's the beauty of it. You can lock that apartment door and go and you're done.
24:10
You don't have to worry about anything. But we do, we do want you to be active and do what you wanna do.
24:17
This isn't about doing what we are asking you to do.
24:21
This is allow, this is allowing you to experience life to the full.
24:26
Liz Craven: Absolutely. Well, I hope that all of you listening, if you had doubts about, or misunderstandings
24:34
about what assisted living is, I hope that clears some of it up.
24:38
If you have other. Questions or other myths you want us to bust?
24:42
By all means drop that in the notes, reach out to us on
24:46
social media, send us an email.
24:48
We will get those questions answered for you.
24:50
But I think we did a great job of doing that today.
24:54
So we've come to a part in the program where, Laura, I want you to give
24:58
yourself a very shameless plug and tell us all about Lake Gibson Village.
25:03
Laura Tenpenny: Well, I just am very proud to be here. I will say that I was the first person that they hired.
25:08
This is a beautiful restored and renovated historic building that was opened in 1928.
25:15
Um, and saw a lot of changes over the years, but, um, In the last, um, half
25:21
a dozen years, um, we've been open.
25:24
We restored and renovated this beautiful historic building, and it's kind of come
25:28
full circle as a retirement home again.
25:32
Um, but we take pride in, um, in this beautiful, um, environment.
25:36
But, you know, it could be, it could be the Taj Mahal if the care's not
25:39
there, you know, it doesn't matter. So, um, we won the best of a Central Florida award, um, a few times, which
25:47
is, um, a nice award that's out there for, um, that's voted by the people of
25:52
the community, the outside community.
25:55
So we're happy about that, but we just have a really special place.
25:58
We have our own dinner theater and we have our pontoon boat and, and just, it's
26:04
really a, a beautiful building with a lot of loving people to take care of you.
26:08
So, um, there's my Liz Craven: will agree.
26:10
Yes, and it was very accurate.
26:13
I can attest to that. You guys do a beautiful job, and I can say for those listening, one of the true tests
26:20
of how well a community is put together is in their retention of employees,
26:26
and people stay at Lake Gibson Village.
26:29
It's the same crew that's been there for a long time, and we've been able to
26:34
grow really nice relationships there.
26:36
So thank you for what you deliver to people, and thank you for providing such
26:40
a great quality of life for those who are ready for a little bit of assistance.
26:45
Laura Tenpenny: call. Thank you, Liz. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
26:48
Liz Craven: Well, not quite finished with you yet because I want, oh no, this is,
26:53
this part's easy and this can be about our topic today or anything general in life,
26:59
but I would love it if you would leave us with just a little piece of sage advice.
27:04
Laura Tenpenny: um, I would say to um, re um, people out there, uh,
27:09
adult children and, um, seniors that are out there is don't wait to,
27:16
uh, uh, CR for a crisis to happen.
27:19
Start looking and thinking about this lifestyle and getting into buildings
27:24
and taking tours because I think that once you get out there and see
27:28
what this lifestyle is really about. It's gonna open your eyes to how, how nice it can be, how pleasurable it could be.
27:37
Um, just getting people to take that tour and walk in a building helps them dispel
27:43
that mindset that this is not for me.
27:45
Cuz I, I tell you what, people come in and they see it and they
27:50
go, oh, this isn't what I thought it was, you know, was gonna be.
27:53
So yeah, I would just say, you know, do your homework and, and start looking.
27:58
Because, because you never know. Liz Craven: Absolutely.
28:01
Well that is great advice and you know, if you've been listening to me at all,
28:06
my mantra is know it before you need it.
28:08
So that is great advice and I appreciate it and I appreciate
28:12
you for joining me today. Thank you so much.
28:14
Laura Tenpenny: Thank you, Liz. Great to talk to you. Liz Craven: You as well,
28:18
and thank all of you for listening. I hope the conversations that we're having here on the Sage Aging
28:23
Podcast are beneficial to you, and I hope you're finding value in them.
28:28
If you are, I'd love to ask you to make sure you hit the subscribe button, whether
28:32
you're on your podcast app or on YouTube.
28:35
Make sure that you subscribe and then you'll never miss an episode.
28:39
We'd also love it if you connect with us on social media.
28:42
You can find uson Instagram on Pinterest now on YouTube,
28:46
you can find us on Twitter. We're kind of all over the place, so whatever is the best platform
28:52
for you, look for us there, um, and let us know how we're doing.
28:56
So thanks again for joining us. We'll have additional conversations coming up really soon.
29:02
So stay tuned, we'll talk real soon.
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