0:10

Do you have a loved one whose home

0:12

is filled to the brim with their belongings,

0:14

making it hard to even navigate

0:17

the rooms? It's not

0:19

an uncommon scene, and you might

0:21

be surprised to learn that a lot of

0:23

people, especially older adults, struggle

0:25

with this issue. Hi, I'm

0:27

Liz Craven, and this is the Sage

0:30

Aging Podcast. If you're new

0:32

here, welcome, and if you're a

0:34

return listener, thanks so much

0:36

for coming back. Now, if you wouldn't mind,

0:39

I'll ask all of you to take just a moment

0:42

to subscribe to the podcast. If

0:44

you would do that, and also

0:46

if you could really make my day and

0:48

share it with someone else who would benefit from

0:50

the great content we're delivering, that would be great.

0:54

In today's episode, we're delving

0:56

into the world of chronic disorganization

0:59

and hoarding among older adults. Watching

1:02

a loved one struggle with these issues is challenging

1:04

in so many ways. So today

1:07

I've invited someone who can shed some light

1:09

on this topic for us and provide

1:11

valuable insights and strategies to

1:13

help you cope. Joining

1:15

me today is Nicole Raymer. She's

1:18

the brilliant mind behind Organized

1:20

Haven. Nicole and her team

1:22

specialize in moving, downsizing,

1:24

organizing, and senior move management.

1:27

Together, we're here to help you gain

1:30

a better understanding of what this

1:32

issue entails and to equip you with

1:34

some practical tools to support your aging

1:36

loved one who might be struggling. So

1:38

let's get started. Nicole,

1:40

welcome. Thank you so much for

1:42

taking some time out of your schedule to join

1:45

me today.

1:46

I appreciate the chance. I

1:48

thank you for inviting me.

1:50

Oh, happy to have you. And you know what?

1:53

I could spend the entire time

1:55

that we're going to be together today. giving

1:57

you a rundown of Nicole's incredible resume

2:00

and her professional journey. Now,

2:02

I won't do that, but we will talk

2:04

a little bit about that later. And you'll

2:06

find links in the show notes and the blog

2:08

post of this episode. If you want to learn more

2:10

about Nicole and what her team

2:12

are doing, it's absolutely incredible

2:15

and I encourage you to go check that out, but

2:17

we've got a lot to cover. So let's

2:20

jump right in and get started. And

2:22

we'll talk more about the other stuff later. How's that?

2:24

Sounds good, Liz.

2:26

So, I always like to say,

2:29

let's just start at the beginning.

2:31

Because having a good understanding

2:34

of a topic will really help people to

2:36

understand the things that come after.

2:38

So let's start by explaining what

2:41

hoarding and chronic disorganization are,

2:44

and how that differs from

2:46

just ordinary clutter that you might have

2:48

around the house.

2:49

Sure, it's a great place to start and

2:51

we all can relate to

2:53

having clutter at some point in our lives,

2:55

but with chronic disorganization,

2:58

it's something that we are challenged

3:00

by for as long as we can remember,

3:03

oftentimes. It's something

3:05

that maybe wasn't taught

3:08

and, we have

3:11

gotten to a point in which we struggle

3:14

on a day to day basis.

3:17

It impacts our quality of life

3:19

and the way we're able to function

3:22

and focus on the important

3:24

things in life and having less stuff.

3:27

The term chronic disorganization

3:30

was coined by a certified professional

3:32

organizer, Judith Kohlberg, who

3:34

in 2001, created

3:37

the national study group on chronic disorganization,

3:40

which is now known as the Institute for

3:42

challenging disorganization. And

3:44

this has been since 2010. So,

3:48

the mission of the ICD,

3:50

we call it, is to provide

3:52

education, research, and

3:54

strategies to benefit the people

3:56

that are challenged by chronic disorganization,

3:59

and also the professionals that work

4:01

with them. There's a

4:03

lot more to it than just you

4:06

know, that before and after photo of

4:09

sorting through mountains of things

4:11

and recreating a space

4:13

that works for them and then saying goodbye

4:15

and good luck. It's

4:18

often times that people who truly

4:20

have this challenge of getting

4:22

organized and staying organized

4:25

It requires things like maintenance

4:27

and follow up and more

4:29

than just the physical act of organizing,

4:32

but also the education about

4:34

how to work with someone who might be challenged

4:36

by chronic disorganization or even

4:39

severe clutter and hoarding tendencies.

4:43

But, you know, again, we all have

4:45

that clutter at our garage, for instance,

4:47

that's my, that, that's my heaviness

4:49

right now. It's a project. You know, and it's

4:51

normal too to have like laundry

4:54

piles and things that

4:56

you just don't get to today, maybe

4:58

not tomorrow. Maybe it's just

5:00

a focus for the week and paper

5:02

that collects and, and things like that even

5:05

stuff that collects on your, your dining table.

5:07

And I think probably one of the most important

5:09

things to acknowledge is that

5:12

your home doesn't have to look like

5:15

a page out of Better Home and Gardens

5:17

every day. We do live in

5:19

our homes and you might have

5:21

a pile of mail that sits for a day

5:23

or two and you don't want to let it get out of control.

5:26

And you should have a place to put those things,

5:29

but that perfection

5:31

is not what we're reaching for. And

5:33

probably there are some other things

5:35

that are contributing factors to

5:37

that happening in the first place. So

5:40

what would be some characteristics

5:43

of someone who is struggling

5:46

with this type of disorder?

5:48

Yeah oftentimes I see

5:50

that it's a matter of focus and

5:53

so contributing factors

5:55

could be something like ADHD.

5:58

Something as Common

6:01

as depression as well and anxiety

6:03

can be a contributing factor because

6:05

those things are just piling up and

6:08

you know, someone who has a

6:11

medical condition or

6:13

a mental health condition that

6:15

is not able to kind

6:18

of set things

6:20

in motion Again, having a

6:22

lack of attention and

6:24

knowledge of really how to

6:26

get from point A to point B

6:29

and, and what to think about can,

6:31

it can be hard to put things in order. I

6:33

talk a lot on the blog about

6:36

you know, minimizing big projects

6:38

into smaller bite sized tasks.

6:41

And those are some things that can be hard for

6:43

someone like that. And again,

6:45

who's, been challenged by

6:47

it for all of their life. Sometimes they

6:49

don't even know what it's called or think they have a

6:52

problem. And it

6:54

could be other things too, like a traumatic

6:57

brain injury or a

6:59

post traumatic stress disorder and

7:02

hoarding disorder. It used to be a subset

7:04

of OCD and now it's

7:06

a standalone disorder which

7:09

in the professional organizing world we're

7:11

grateful for. You've, I think

7:13

we've all seen the shows, at

7:15

least snippets of them, Hoarders,

7:17

Buried Alive and

7:20

that's a whole nother topic that we can get into

7:23

that I'm not sure if we'll have a whole lot of time for today

7:25

but at a very basic level

7:28

it's I

7:31

think I said this, from a lack

7:33

of understanding and

7:35

Maybe modeling, a lack of of

7:38

modeling on a parent's part

7:40

of the skill sets and

7:43

the things that you should do every

7:45

single day in order to keep the clutter

7:47

from impacting the quality

7:49

of your life.

7:51

And that makes a good, brings up a good point

7:54

that although today we're kind

7:56

of focusing on older adults, this is not

7:58

something that affects just

8:00

older adults. It just, it seems

8:02

that there's more attention given

8:05

to people who are a bit older because there

8:07

are more people getting involved in their care

8:09

and maybe People

8:12

haven't seen their home in a long time

8:14

It's not you know something that was

8:17

that the family or close friends

8:19

were really generally aware of and

8:21

all of a sudden, They see this and they're

8:24

concerned and it's this big problem

8:26

all of a sudden and probably not all

8:28

of a sudden It's been happening for a while

8:30

Yeah, well, an older adults can be easily

8:33

more easily overwhelmed than

8:35

younger adults. So it is more It is more

8:37

prevalent in older adults. I see

8:39

often that they're resistant to change.

8:42

They might have lived this way all of their life and

8:45

they don't see it as being a concern,

8:47

but there are fall hazards and

8:50

other safety factors

8:52

that can contribute to an

8:55

older adult safety in their home. I

8:57

am working with a client now who has

8:59

his refrigerator plugged into an extension

9:02

cord. And for that reason,

9:04

as well as some others there, it's

9:06

a fire hazard and he's not safe in his home.

9:09

So we're working with him on that and

9:11

getting his appliances in

9:13

better order. Older

9:15

adults are slow to trust others

9:17

as well. So, they won't.

9:20

Even let you in their home if

9:22

they think that you're going to judge them.

9:24

And that, you know, that kind of leads into

9:27

my next question is when

9:30

you go to assist in

9:32

a home where somebody

9:35

has been struggling with this, I

9:37

mean, that's got to be a

9:39

really big and overwhelming

9:41

task. What are some of

9:43

the unique challenges that you face

9:46

when you go into a situation like that?

9:49

Well, it, it takes some time to

9:51

actually get in in

9:53

high clutter level homes.

9:55

Sometimes we meet with our clients

9:58

offsite so that we can build that

10:00

trust with them before asking

10:02

to be invited into their home. And even then,

10:05

when we're there, we might not

10:07

even enter the front door. Our. prospective

10:10

client comes out and meets us out front,

10:12

sometimes climbing over mountains

10:14

of things. Again, a safety

10:16

hazard to have those doors and windows

10:19

blocked but it takes

10:21

time. Just like it takes

10:23

time to get organized and to

10:26

declutter in chronically disorganized

10:28

situations, it also takes

10:30

time to build that

10:32

trust. I've had a client

10:34

who was the

10:37

only, the only company he

10:39

invited into his home other than

10:41

really close friends was the cable

10:43

company because

10:45

he wanted to be able to watch TV and,

10:48

you know, he got past that fear

10:51

of judgment by allowing

10:53

at least that one person to come in and

10:55

set him up. It's with clients

10:58

like this that we do

11:00

require outside support as well

11:03

depending on the, the level of clutter

11:05

and it's one resource that I'll

11:07

supply ICD's clutter

11:10

hoarding scale. It's our

11:12

guide to determine if we are

11:14

the right fit for our client alone,

11:16

or if we need additional

11:18

support of hoarding, cleanup companies,

11:21

pest control mode, mold remediation,

11:24

even, rehabilitation home

11:26

or rehabilitation companies

11:29

especially with older adults. We find to

11:31

that contributing factor

11:33

is loss of loved ones,

11:36

a spouse a child.

11:38

Even a parent, if you are younger, a

11:40

parent as well, those really

11:43

have a devastating impact on

11:45

one's, you know, like psyche

11:47

and how they think

11:49

about their possessions, especially those

11:52

that might have been gifted by that loved one who has

11:54

passed. And, and those things

11:56

tend to become a safety blanket for people

11:58

who are having a hard

12:00

time letting go.

12:02

Absolutely. That's so understandable.

12:05

We have to cling to the things that bring us comfort,

12:07

but unfortunately, sometimes that

12:09

lands us in a place where our

12:12

home is unsanitary, unsafe,

12:15

fall risk, fire risk, all of

12:17

those things. And so

12:19

do you typically get

12:21

for the worst of the cases, do

12:23

you find that people are engaging

12:27

in getting help for mental

12:29

health, or is that something that you

12:31

make referral to? And, you

12:33

know, there is, there's such a high ethical

12:36

question here about how are

12:39

things handled and how is their privacy

12:41

respected? And are we making sure

12:43

that they are being taken care of in

12:46

every way not just physically,

12:48

but mentally as well?

12:50

Yes so the

12:52

physical act of organizing

12:55

for someone who is

12:57

having a hard time and living in a hoarded

13:00

home is something

13:02

that I'm grateful for

13:04

the world of professional organizers that we

13:06

exist, but we are

13:08

We're not therapists and

13:11

we're not mental health professionals. And so yes,

13:14

it takes a collaboration in

13:16

these cases to help them

13:19

and not just right now.

13:23

But over time, and

13:25

to help them work through those emotional

13:29

issues, it can be something that

13:31

takes a professional organizer down the wrong

13:33

path. It's, it's

13:35

very easy for us to care,

13:39

about this person and

13:42

to want to help them even

13:44

with the emotional struggles that they're having

13:46

and just to walk them through

13:48

a path of like

13:50

recovering their mind and being able to function.

13:53

But that's not what we're trained to

13:55

do. We're trained to help

13:58

them find organizing

14:00

methods that work for the

14:02

type of brain that they have especially

14:04

considering maybe if they have dementia

14:07

as well traditional organizing

14:09

methods aren't going to work. And

14:12

so in addition to needing other

14:15

support professionals there for the

14:17

physical removal of junk

14:20

and for having the proper PPE,

14:23

also having access and

14:25

referrals for mental health

14:27

professionals is something

14:30

that we look to. It's not something that

14:32

is easy to relay

14:34

to the person in need. It can be hard

14:37

too to say, I, I

14:39

think you could benefit from talking with someone

14:42

and, and that's not me, but I'm happy

14:44

to refer you to someone. So that's what we try to do

14:46

and try to make them a part of our team

14:49

collectively so that we could be the local

14:52

support and the organizing

14:54

guidance. Again, based on understanding

14:56

how to work with people like this

14:59

And that brings us to a great

15:01

spot to talk about the

15:04

fact that there are people who specialize

15:07

in helping older adults to downsize

15:09

and get organized. So tell

15:11

us a little bit real quick about

15:14

senior move management and

15:16

the certification that you have for that.

15:19

Sure. So, When

15:21

I started Organized Haven, it

15:23

was solely to help people

15:26

with their space, no matter the

15:28

age, no matter the life transition,

15:30

helping them feel organized

15:33

in their space. And

15:35

all of my clients, going

15:37

back to the very beginning in 2013

15:41

have been older adults. It's,

15:43

it's rare that we have that younger adult

15:45

that reaches out because it's

15:47

something that they feel, they feel they can handle.

15:50

And so three years in to my

15:52

organizing business, I found this niche

15:55

in helping seniors downsize

15:57

because they are not just impacted

15:59

by a temporary situation.

16:02

Oftentimes, They're impacted by

16:05

a lifelong accumulation of things.

16:08

And so, in 2016,

16:11

we added senior move management before

16:13

I even knew what a senior move manager

16:15

was as local senior

16:17

living communities started reaching out and

16:20

asking me as a professional organizer,

16:22

can you help our seniors get

16:25

ready to move? They're in a place

16:27

in their life where they know they need

16:29

additional services. They

16:31

know they want less upkeep and maintenance

16:33

of their home. Their large home is

16:35

no longer functional for them.

16:38

And so they,

16:40

they have this need and they know it of

16:42

downsizing and maybe moving to

16:45

a retirement community, even if it's

16:47

a 55 plus community.

16:51

And they just need help getting there.

16:53

They feel like they can't do it for two years

16:56

because it's going to take them that long to sort through

16:58

their stuff. And

17:00

Right. So hit the

17:02

highlights then of what is

17:04

a senior move management certification

17:08

and how can you find one

17:10

if you're looking for one in your own area?

17:12

Yes. So I found the National

17:15

Association of Senior and Specialty

17:17

Move Managers in 2017

17:20

and found that they were the

17:23

The overriding association

17:26

on teaching how to be

17:28

a senior move manager and

17:31

all of the things that come with it, the

17:33

knowledge about working with older adults,

17:36

the knowledge about relocation stress syndrome

17:39

a little bit about hoarding tendencies

17:41

and dementia, and then,

17:43

of course the training that you need

17:46

to understand how to pack

17:48

and move and unpack and what I call

17:50

pack with the unpack in mind. So

17:53

having had found this resource

17:55

a little late in, I did reinvent

17:57

the wheel a little bit and but

17:59

I found that the

18:02

certifications what they require

18:05

are experience, first of

18:07

all Positive experiences from

18:09

our clients in the form of testimonials

18:12

proper insurance and training

18:14

and you know, so from liability insurance

18:17

to workers' comp and everything

18:19

that you need to keep your clients

18:21

safe and your employees safe. So

18:24

later in 2020 was when we

18:26

became. A plus accredited with

18:29

NASM for short, again,

18:31

the National Association of Senior and Specialty

18:33

Move Managers. And so

18:35

what that means is we have processes

18:37

and in place and guidance

18:40

for our team so that. What

18:42

we do works for the clients

18:45

who we serve, and that everyone

18:47

is, is trained and educated on

18:50

all of the resources of NASM,

18:52

as well as NAPO, the

18:54

National Association of Productivity and Organizing

18:56

Professionals, and now the ICD,

18:59

the Institute for Challenging Disorganization.

19:02

Education is very important to our team

19:05

it's very important that. To

19:07

me that we are

19:09

educators, first and foremost,

19:12

and that we have, you know,

19:14

the proper resources and tools

19:16

to help people through these challenging

19:18

life transitions.

19:20

That's great. And a perfect segue

19:22

into the next part of this

19:24

conversation. So we've established

19:27

that there are all kinds of professionals that

19:29

are available to help you. You might

19:32

need the help of, someone in the mental

19:34

health realm, you might need a professional

19:36

organizer or senior move manager.

19:38

You might need extra family and friends who

19:40

are willing to chip in and help. And

19:42

there are a lot of issues that can contribute

19:44

to somebody who finds themselves

19:47

in a situation where they're living

19:49

in a hoarded home. So

19:51

now let's turn our attention

19:53

to solutions, because that's

19:55

what people really want to hear. We're talking about

19:57

all kinds of stuff, and they're probably chomping

19:59

at the bit saying, Enough already!

20:02

We've got the info you want us to have.

20:04

Let's talk solutions. So,

20:09

gosh, I don't even know where to begin

20:11

with that. Let's, let's start

20:13

at the beginning again. When you encounter

20:17

a person... Who maybe

20:19

is thinking about engaging your services.

20:22

Maybe they decide they can't afford it

20:25

or they for whatever

20:27

reason, decide to go it alone.

20:30

What are some things that you would

20:32

advise them to begin with in

20:35

the process of trying to take care

20:37

of their situation?

20:38

It is common that someone

20:40

who is in

20:42

dire straits and really needs

20:45

help figuring this out

20:47

and getting through the clutter it is common

20:50

for them, of course, to consider the

20:52

cost and to ask

20:54

questions about that. It's great to

20:56

have an accountability partner,

20:58

whether that's a professional accountability partner

21:00

or a personal friend, even

21:03

neighbor, someone who knows the

21:05

challenges you're facing, someone who you can trust,

21:08

someone who's not going to be judgmental. These

21:11

are people that we work with all the time, even

21:13

caregivers with our clients who are

21:15

there with them all of the time. It's someone

21:17

who they're already paying for to have in their home,

21:20

someone who they do trust. We

21:23

educate them to be able to make

21:25

do, do the right things, approach these

21:28

conversations the right way. And

21:31

so I find it important to at least understand

21:33

it. If this, if this person, if

21:36

someone listening today knows

21:38

someone, loves someone who is struggling,

21:41

for them to understand if this is chronic

21:43

disorganization, if this is hoarding

21:46

I'll, I'll share some resources

21:48

later. But to,

21:50

to have an understanding of how to have these

21:52

conversations without making things worse, I,

21:55

I feel is very important and

21:57

something even as simple as packing for a move.

22:00

I'll just keep it very basic the

22:04

the things that they might do

22:06

to pack a pantry for

22:08

a move, they might not consider the space

22:11

that all of these pantry items

22:13

are going to and whether they're going to fit first

22:15

of all, but also whether they are

22:18

even in date. So we

22:20

find a lot of times that half

22:22

of our client's pantries are out of date

22:25

and it's just not something that they

22:28

Do all of the time when they grocery

22:30

shop is kind of some through all of those

22:32

canned goods and boxed goods and

22:35

and snacks and, and things

22:37

like that, as well as medications go

22:39

out of date and they clutter up quickly.

22:42

But someone who is struggling

22:44

with this, oftentimes they

22:47

don't respond to traditional

22:49

organizing methods such as taking

22:52

a project and picking it

22:54

apart and making small bite sized steps

22:56

is not something that they're good at making lists

22:59

and checking them off. Depersonalizing

23:02

things oftentimes doesn't work

23:04

either. So if you're trying to get someone to

23:07

change their beliefs about

23:09

a particular object, by

23:11

by asking do you really need

23:13

this? It's not going

23:16

to work for that person. They

23:19

respond better to actually over

23:21

personalizing things, for instance,

23:23

and asking things like, does

23:25

this item need you? So

23:28

that's one thing that we'll use

23:30

to turn the conversation around

23:32

a little bit and help them

23:36

Visualize their items as

23:39

I don't know, people with feelings, and

23:41

calling something a friend or

23:43

an acquaintance can also

23:46

work as well. or

23:49

a stranger. So if we're asking a client

23:52

is this, is this item

23:55

a friend of yours? Do you want

23:57

him or her around for

23:59

the rest of your life? Or is

24:02

this item an aquaintance,

24:05

you know, they're not really, it's not really producing

24:08

much value or is this

24:10

an outright stranger and you don't even know where

24:12

it came from? Those are some ways

24:14

that our clients who are

24:17

challenged by chronic disorganization might

24:20

be better able to,

24:23

relate with and easily make decisions

24:25

and that's what's hard really is the decision making.

24:29

We'll also treasure hunt. Treasure hunting

24:31

can be fun. Honestly, whether you're an

24:33

adult or even an older

24:35

adult, a younger adult, or even a child.

24:38

To find those treasures like

24:40

in this pile of 10

24:42

things, what's your absolute

24:45

favorite? What can't you live without?

24:47

And, and that can make it fun

24:49

as well as just not working alone.

24:52

So again, even having a friend

24:54

or a family member or a neighbor

24:57

to help you We,

24:59

we call that social organizing or

25:01

body doubling. A lot of our clients

25:03

who are struggling with disorganization

25:05

will tell us, Oh my

25:07

gosh, you just being here. It

25:10

motivates me to keep going

25:12

and I thought about canceling,

25:14

but you know, I, I, I

25:16

knew based on our last sessions that

25:19

I need you here. And it

25:21

just helps, it just helps me keep going

25:23

and get through this pile with a little

25:25

more fun.

25:27

Well, those are some awesome strategies

25:29

for helping your loved one who might be struggling

25:32

with this. Now I want to take it backwards

25:34

a step. What are

25:36

some things that we can do to prevent

25:39

this from happening in the first

25:41

place?

25:42

Yeah. Well,

25:44

that's actually another reason why I introduced organizing

25:47

packages because people tend

25:49

to wait until the

25:53

end, the last minute

25:55

to prepare for a move.

25:57

They might have no

25:59

idea that they're going to need to move

26:02

in a month, in a year, in two years.

26:05

And so things easily

26:07

pile up because it's not something that

26:10

they're addressing early on. So

26:12

from the stuff in the closets

26:14

to the stuff in the cabinets

26:16

and the dresser drawers

26:19

even is to start

26:21

early. And that can be easier said

26:23

than done, of course. But.

26:26

The extreme collection and

26:28

storage of items

26:31

in the home and the yard we see as

26:33

physical signs of hoarding and

26:36

so to have

26:38

an understanding of your loved one's

26:40

space, how they're living,

26:43

and whether they are cluttered

26:45

inside the home or even outside the home

26:48

that awareness is can go a long way

26:50

in, in just keeping in touch with your loved one,

26:52

especially an older adult. And

26:55

so instead of letting things also

26:57

pile in those closets

27:00

and cabinets and even in

27:02

the attic or the garage If

27:04

you do, if you are able to start

27:06

early and focus on little

27:08

pieces of your home. I like

27:10

to ensure that everything in

27:13

my home is something that I use

27:15

every day or every week or every month,

27:18

maybe every year. Of course, we have the

27:20

holiday decorations and

27:22

things that don't come out, but one time

27:24

a year and those, those pile

27:26

up as well. Downsizing consistently

27:29

is something people don't do. They

27:31

take things in and if you have the space,

27:34

I always refer to even

27:36

a lady's purse. The space

27:38

that we have in our purses, we

27:40

use every single bit of it. And if

27:42

we don't at least once a week, Take

27:44

out all of the receipts and

27:47

candy wrappers, gum wrappers makeup,

27:50

you know, whatever it is that we're throwing in there

27:53

to, to go and have what we need

27:55

they collect. And so it's,

27:57

it's like that with our homes too. If we

27:59

have the room, we're, we're going to store

28:02

it. And it's like the saying, you don't know

28:04

what you have until you have to move it. It,

28:06

it, things. Things seem to

28:08

accumulate overnight, but they really didn't

28:10

happen overnight. They happened over time

28:13

and I always suggest as

28:16

you bring things into your home let

28:18

two things go then you're downsizing

28:20

Consistently

28:21

I've always heard the one in

28:23

one out, but I like one

28:25

in two out. That's going to make it happen

28:28

a lot faster.

28:29

My husband doesn't like it. He's a collector.

28:32

And so I, I give him this

28:34

rule as well. We've had two of

28:36

our own online estate sales with

28:38

our partner MaxSold to

28:40

downsize the stuff that he's

28:42

collected. And because

28:44

he just, he, he has a passion for

28:46

antiques and vintage things. So,

28:49

And it's so hard to let go of things.

28:51

And I think, especially when, you

28:53

know, I know as a parent, so,

28:56

you know, my, my daughter is pregnant

28:58

with her first child and I'm thinking.

29:01

Thank God! Not only am I really

29:03

excited to be a grandparent, that

29:05

I'm over the moon about, but I have

29:07

an entire closet of things that I've been

29:09

saving that belonged to my girls

29:11

when they were kids, so that their

29:14

kids could play with their toys. So

29:16

the Barbies and the Barbie townhouse

29:19

and all that stuff sitting in there, and guess

29:21

what? She's having a boy!

29:23

Oh my goodness, yes, So,

29:26

surprise, the surprise, surprise

29:28

is on you.

29:30

Yes, it is. I'm still

29:32

holding out hope that eventually there will

29:34

be a granddaughter that will play with all of

29:36

those toys, and I don't regret holding on to

29:38

those. But, you know, aside from

29:41

things like that, that you're holding for a real purpose,

29:44

I know that we have a closet

29:46

full of things that used

29:48

to belong to my husband's mother, and

29:51

we just don't have the heart to

29:53

get rid of them because they're

29:56

memories of her and memories of the holidays

29:59

we spent around her dining table

30:01

and nobody wants the China and nobody

30:03

wants all of those things and Convincing

30:06

ourselves that it's okay

30:08

to let go of those things is

30:10

difficult. And I, I

30:13

certainly don't have a problem

30:15

with hoarding at, or

30:17

keeping too many things I've gotten

30:19

really good at downsizing

30:22

those things, but I have more work to do because

30:25

ultimately I don't want my children have to have

30:27

to deal with all of those things. If

30:29

you could give people a list of three

30:32

habits that they should engage

30:34

in on either a daily, weekly

30:36

or monthly basis in order

30:38

to keep their homes in an

30:40

organized fashion, what would those

30:43

three things be?

30:45

Other than the

30:48

need to downsize

30:51

consistently as you're bringing new

30:53

things into your home you

30:55

also need to ensure that there

30:58

is a home for whatever that

31:00

thing is. In which it goes

31:02

to consistently because

31:05

we are constantly

31:07

coming and going, right? And

31:09

so if there's no place for

31:12

your keys, sometimes you have them in

31:14

your pocket, sometimes you have them in your purse,

31:17

sometimes they're on the dining room

31:19

table then, You have

31:21

that constant stress of trying to find

31:23

them. So maybe a third thing

31:26

might be to always

31:28

have a box in the closet,

31:30

by the front door in the kitchen,

31:33

wherever it is close by,

31:35

that as you find things that you're,

31:38

when you're searching in a drawer for something

31:40

that you need and you see all of

31:42

this other stuff that you really don't. The

31:45

box is there, throw it in the box,

31:47

and when that box is full, take it to your

31:49

nearest donation center.

31:51

Absolutely. And you know what? That's a great

31:53

way to use all those Amazon

31:55

boxes because I know they're on your porch

31:57

too. Every time a box

31:59

comes in, it's like, Hmm, you know,

32:02

a box is for filling, right? So let's

32:04

fill the box. Let's go around the house and find

32:06

some things that don't need to be here anymore

32:09

and let somebody else love on it. Let

32:11

somebody else benefit from it and

32:13

let somebody else use it.

32:15

that's right.

32:17

Absolutely. Okay. So let's

32:19

move on then to

32:21

resources. What

32:23

are some great resources that people

32:25

who are either dealing with this

32:28

or just simply want to educate themselves about

32:31

chronic disorganization can go to,

32:33

to dig a little bit deeper?

32:35

Sure. The ultimate resource

32:37

I would say is ICD.

32:39

So again, the Institute for Challenging

32:41

Disorganization. You can

32:43

find the site at challengingdisorganization.

32:46

org. A

32:49

couple of the resources that are on their website,

32:52

as I said before, was the clutter

32:54

hoarding scale. And that's going

32:56

to break down that level 1 to

32:58

level 5 hoarding scale.

33:01

So that you can see what clutter

33:04

level you might fall into or your

33:06

loved one might fall into. Another

33:08

resource that's on their website is

33:10

the clutter quality of life

33:12

scale. So, if you

33:14

still aren't sure, You know, does this

33:17

mean do, do, do all of

33:19

the things that I'm going through and, and

33:21

does my space, is it necessarily

33:24

defined as chronic disorganization

33:27

is it impacting my quality of life?

33:29

You can find out by by

33:32

reviewing and completing that scale.

33:35

I have some books here. I, if,

33:37

if I am a hoarder of anything,

33:39

it is of books. I just,

33:42

I love to read. I love, I do to

33:44

learn. My mom, she reads novels,

33:46

love novels. I don't

33:49

get anything out of those. So,

33:51

Romance novels, right? People

33:53

like books for different reasons. I like

33:56

books to educate me about

33:58

the topics that are hot

34:00

topics for me. And chronic disorganization

34:02

is one of them. Downsizing

34:04

is another. And so

34:06

I did compile a short

34:09

list of, of books that I have read

34:11

or am reading. One of

34:13

them is buried in treasures. And

34:15

I'll just show them. This is the one that

34:17

I'm reading right now. Buried in

34:20

Treasures, Help for Compulsive Acquiring,

34:22

Saving, and Hoarding. I

34:25

have read Chronic, Conquering

34:27

Chronic Disorganization. This is by Judith

34:29

Cole Kohlberg, the one who I told you

34:31

about in the beginning, who discovered

34:33

this how to define chronic

34:36

disorganization, what it was, and,

34:38

and, Has been on a mission

34:40

ever since 1992,

34:42

I think, on making sure that

34:44

professional organizers around the world understand

34:47

how to conquer chronic disorganization

34:49

as well. Just a couple more.

34:51

I'm right here. 10 ways to get help

34:53

for hoarding and chronic disorganization by

34:55

my friend and fellow CPO,

34:58

Jill Yesko. She's a senior move manager

35:00

as well. And this is

35:02

such a short, fun

35:04

read with effective strategies.

35:07

I recommend it to everyone. And

35:09

then my good friend, Matt Paxton

35:11

as well, keep the memories, lose the stuff.

35:14

He is America's primary

35:18

top downsizing expert.

35:20

And so he teaches you in this book, how to declutter,

35:22

downsize and move forward with your life.

35:25

The if, if someone has a

35:27

need to find a qualified therapist

35:30

as well for mental health I

35:33

like to refer them to psychology today.

35:37

And so all it takes is putting

35:39

in your zip code to find

35:41

someone in your area. We actually

35:43

do have someone who Is

35:45

is trained in helping people with hoarding tenants,

35:48

tenancies and and that emotional side

35:50

of of help right here in

35:52

Lakeland. And we have a gentleman also

35:55

in Orlando. And and

35:57

just like with that psychology today,

36:00

you can find, certified Professional

36:02

Organizer at NAPO.

36:04

net. And a Certified

36:06

Senior Move Manager at NASM.

36:09

org. And I'll include

36:11

those, I'll send those links to you.

36:14

Awesome. That is such an incredible

36:16

list of resources that you just listed.

36:19

And just so, if you're listening. All

36:21

of those will be available in the show notes

36:23

for this episode and also in the blog

36:25

post that accompanies this episode

36:28

at eldercareguide. com. So don't

36:30

worry about trying to rush back and rewind

36:33

and write those all down.

36:35

We'll have those all compiled in

36:37

one place for you. And

36:39

Nicole, thank you so much for joining

36:41

me today. I think we have kind

36:43

of. Throughout the, the episode

36:46

talked a lot about what you do, but

36:48

if you want to do a quick recap

36:50

for us and give yourself a shameless

36:52

plug here, that would be great before

36:55

we head into our last question.

36:57

Okay, sure. At Organized

36:59

Haven, we understand why

37:02

getting organized on one's own

37:05

might not be possible,

37:07

especially in the cases that we discussed today.

37:10

So, without judgment and

37:12

with a completely customized

37:15

approach, we're proud to provide

37:17

the educated resources

37:19

and support that the members of our community

37:22

need to be successful and

37:24

to frankly have a positive quality

37:26

of life. And as

37:29

a chronic disorganization specialist,

37:32

I work with clients challenged by

37:34

chronic disorganization by guiding them

37:36

in their decision making and

37:39

by creating those systems we

37:41

talked about with non traditional organizing

37:43

methods that make sense for

37:46

the way their brain works.

37:49

Awesome. Thank you for that. And thank

37:51

you for contributing so much today.

37:53

You shared a lot of great information. So

37:55

the last thing that we're going to do, my favorite

37:58

question of every episode

38:00

is, will you leave us with just

38:02

a little bit of sage advice for

38:05

our listeners?

38:06

Yes. If

38:08

you or someone you know is

38:10

challenged by chronic disorganization

38:13

or hoarding, first, again,

38:15

take the time to read and understand

38:18

how to work through this and

38:21

remember that getting

38:23

through the situation is really just 40%

38:26

physical organizing and 60%

38:29

education. Physically

38:31

reducing the clutter from one space,

38:34

it really It doesn't address

38:36

the hoarding problem. It just addresses

38:39

the house problem. So,

38:41

changing beliefs about possessions

38:44

the meaning of those possessions that's

38:47

what it's going to take to eventually reduce

38:49

the number of possessions in someone's house.

38:53

And improvements, the last,

38:55

the last one might be that improvements

38:57

in organizing habits are

39:00

necessary. It's a necessary component

39:02

for change to occur. And that's what we want

39:04

for our clients and for everyone

39:06

in our community, whether they're a client or not

39:09

is for a lifelong

39:11

change.

39:13

Nicole, thank you for taking the time to

39:15

be with me today. I really do appreciate it.

39:17

You're welcome. Thanks again, Liz.

39:21

And thank all of you for joining

39:23

us as well. I hope that this

39:25

episode gave you some insight into

39:27

an issue that is very challenging

39:29

for a lot of people. And

39:32

just as a reminder, be sure to visit

39:34

eldercareguide. com. Where

39:36

you'll find the detailed blog post with

39:38

links and all the mentioned resources

39:41

that we had here today. These references

39:43

will also be listed in the show notes for

39:45

easy access. And if you enjoyed

39:47

today's episode, I'd love to stay

39:49

connected with you. Don't forget to follow us

39:51

on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Pinterest. By

39:55

staying connected, you'll be the first to know

39:57

about all of our upcoming episodes, and you'll

40:00

never miss a thing. And last, but

40:02

certainly not least, your support

40:04

means the world to us. If you found this

40:06

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40:08

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40:10

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40:13

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40:15

who may benefit from our content. That'll

40:18

do it today for today, friends.

40:20

Keep listening, keep learning,

40:22

and stay sage.