0:05

Hi, this is Liz Craven. Welcome

0:08

to Sage aging. This

0:10

is your podcast for understanding

0:12

the aging and caregiving journey and

0:15

connecting to the information and resources

0:17

that will make your experience better.

0:20

Before we dive in, let me remind

0:22

you that you can find all Sage aging

0:24

episodes. The Sage aging, elder

0:26

care guide, and much [email protected].

0:33

The life of a caregiver can be

0:35

quite hectic. Days are filled

0:37

with long to-do lists, balancing

0:39

family relationships, maybe a job

0:42

and meeting the needs of the loved one

0:44

that you're caring for. Sometimes

0:47

that care is hands on caregiving,

0:49

and sometimes it's managing the care

0:51

from afar regardless. Your

0:54

days are full and busy. We

0:56

often talk about those responsibilities

0:58

and how to juggle it all and how to somehow

1:01

find a little bit of time for self care

1:03

too. But today we're gonna take

1:05

a look beyond the caregiver

1:07

day to day today. We're gonna talk

1:09

about when a loved one passes.

1:12

I know it's not easy to let your mind go

1:14

there, especially when you're in the

1:17

midst of your caregiving journey, but

1:19

you'll wanna know it before you need it. You've

1:21

heard me say that before. We need

1:23

to know things before we need

1:25

them. If we want our process to be

1:27

a smooth. Joining me

1:29

for today's episode is Barbara

1:31

Harrington. You'll recognize that name.

1:34

We just had a great conversation

1:36

in the last episode, episode 66,

1:39

about the five wishes, advanced

1:41

care planning document. I hope you

1:43

had a chance to listen to that. If you didn't,

1:45

I'd encourage you to jump back

1:48

and listen to it. It is a great

1:50

episode that really goes hand in hand

1:52

with today's conversation. So I'm

1:54

super excited to have Barbara join me.

1:57

Barbara is the founder and

2:00

owner of all about aging,

2:02

which is an aging life care firm

2:05

in Polk county, Florida. And

2:07

if you want more information about what

2:09

an aging life care manager does.

2:12

Back in episode eight, Barbara

2:14

joined me to talk all about

2:16

that. And so I think you win

2:18

the award Barbara for being

2:20

the most frequent guest on my

2:22

podcast with this being your third

2:25

episode. So thank you so much

2:27

for joining me

2:28

again. Well, you're welcome. I appreciate

2:30

doing it. There's just so much good information that

2:32

we have learned through the years and I am happy to.

2:35

I asked Barbara to join me for this conversation,

2:37

not just because of her

2:40

expertise and her education

2:42

and her professional experience,

2:44

but because of her personal caregiving experiences,

2:47

too. And as we chat,

2:49

you're gonna learn a little bit more about her

2:51

story and how those two

2:53

tie together so completely.

2:56

And I think she's gonna be able to offer us some

2:58

great insight today in our conversation.

3:02

So, this is a hard topic. They're all hard

3:04

topics. but I've tapped you

3:06

two times in a row for really hard topics.

3:08

And this is another one I know how

3:10

personally it touches me. And

3:13

so many people that are listening

3:16

because when a loved one passes

3:19

life transitions in a very big

3:21

way. And I've got

3:23

tears forming in my eyes right now. Just

3:25

thinking about when I lost my mom.

3:28

The days that happened after

3:30

that, the standing in the middle

3:33

of the room and not knowing what to

3:35

do next, you know, having the

3:37

release of the tears and that moment.

3:39

And then the next day waking up and

3:42

there was no laundry to do. And there

3:44

were no meds. To check and there

3:46

was no breakfast to prepare

3:48

and there was no hospital

3:50

run to make all of those

3:52

things that consume your

3:54

life for so long are

3:57

suddenly gone. And

3:59

though it's a relief in some ways. You

4:02

feel completely lost in

4:04

other ways that for me is

4:06

where this conversation is coming from.

4:09

It is my hope that we can

4:11

maybe help prepare others

4:13

for what's coming down the road, that we

4:15

can help them to know it before they need it

4:17

and help them to somewhat

4:19

prepare. I'm not sure you can ever really be prepared,

4:22

but that we can kind of help them get

4:24

there. So thank you for agreeing

4:26

to join me for this conversation

4:28

too. Absolutely. And I agree it

4:30

is one of the tough ones. Ah,

4:32

yeah, it is. It's a hard one.

4:34

It's an emotional one. It

4:37

can take you to an uncomfortable place. And

4:39

I know we did that to you last episode too,

4:41

but I think this is a conversation

4:43

that will actually help to ease some of that

4:45

stress. So before we jump

4:47

in, though, I wanna go back to

4:49

my fun question. Barbara had

4:51

double duty cuz she was with me last

4:53

week. So she had to tell us two words that

4:56

described her last week and she

4:58

brought two new words to

5:00

this episode. So tell me two words

5:02

to describe yourself.

5:03

I would say two words to describe me would be curious.

5:06

I'm always curious and I'm persistent.

5:09

And I would say those describe you very well. Those

5:11

are words I would've chosen for you too. And

5:14

I love the curiosity word because

5:16

doesn't curiosity lead to such

5:18

a fun life. Doesn't it?

5:20

Absolutely. You're curious about

5:22

everything you wanna learn more. You wanna investigate?

5:25

You just don't take things at face value mm-hmm and

5:27

it

5:27

doesn't ever stop. Does it? Mm-hmm no, no.

5:30

All the way to the end. I wanna be curious.

5:32

Exactly. Great, great, great words.

5:35

Well, let's jump into your caregiving

5:37

story. Your story really

5:40

formed most of your adult life.

5:42

Your caregiving story.

5:44

It did. So my

5:46

mother-in-law was an, just

5:48

a delightful Southern bell. She

5:51

was just a joy and she loved me

5:53

just unconditionally. She was just a, a

5:55

joy to have in our lives, but

5:57

she had a lot of health issues. So she was an incredible

6:00

caregiver for Mike's dad. She

6:03

took such good care of him. And that was when my

6:05

babies were just little and we were not

6:07

very involved in helping her. They lived elsewhere,

6:10

but she did a super job. So as

6:12

the time group came along and she started

6:14

having a lot of health issues, especially with rheumatoid

6:16

arthritis and really bad back pain, we

6:19

ended up taking care of her a lot. Ultimately

6:21

having her live with us and then

6:23

in her own place and eventually

6:26

in an assisted living community. And

6:28

at some point she developed Alzheimer's and

6:30

as with most people, you know, we were in

6:32

total denial that kept friends, kept telling

6:34

me. Things were wrong. Oh no, she's

6:36

fine. What I didn't realize is, well,

6:39

before cell phone time, I would call her

6:41

30 minutes before we were supposed to pick her up. I'd

6:43

call her 20 minutes before I'd call her five

6:45

minutes before we're on the way and you get

6:47

there and she's not ready. oh, and

6:49

I still was in denial. So

6:51

actually for her, it took a seven hour drive to

6:53

Orlando from winter Haven. An hour

6:56

drive. Where was she? Those seven hours. Oh

6:58

gosh. How many guardian angels were working that night?

7:01

We were, we had moved away. The doctors had assured

7:03

me, she was fine and she was charming. She charmed

7:05

everybody. So that's how I learned how hard

7:07

it is to diagnose Alzheimer's. But

7:10

through that I realized, uh,

7:13

she needed an advocate, you know,

7:15

and to try to help work with her,

7:17

with the doctors. Help

7:19

them see what she was saying might not really be

7:21

accurate. You know, that was where

7:24

a lot of my strong advocacy came from.

7:26

And the caregiving was, it

7:28

becomes all consuming. It's always

7:30

on your mind and your heart, no matter where they are. You're

7:32

like, is she okay? Am I getting a phone

7:34

call? I remember one time.

7:37

I mean, if she woke up and it was a bad day with the

7:39

rheumatoid arthritis, she needed to see the doctor,

7:41

she needed to get an injection or something.

7:43

And I remember my youngest being

7:45

three years old and the end of the three year old

7:47

school preschool party was at my house.

7:49

I was like, you guys take care. Cause I'm taking,

7:52

need it to the doctor. you know, and

7:54

you just do that kind of thing. Mm-hmm so it becomes

7:57

so overwhelming. And

7:59

you don't realize that it's ins. And,

8:02

but it's beautiful. I mean, it is such a gift

8:04

to be able to care for someone.

8:07

My mom doesn't live close by. She

8:09

has eight children, so everybody

8:11

cares in different ways, which is really

8:13

nice. Mm-hmm and I think I have learned that through the

8:15

business. You know that families,

8:17

everybody has their strength and what can

8:19

they bring to the table to help provide

8:21

care? So it's been

8:24

really an interesting journey with the caregiving

8:26

and really honoring the role of

8:28

a caregiver. And I think the thing that happens

8:30

when someone dies is the caregiver

8:33

has lost their job. Mm-hmm you know, they don't

8:35

even realize it has become a job. It has become

8:37

their preoccupation completely.

8:40

So like you're saying the next day,

8:43

it. Well, who am I? What

8:45

am I supposed to do? Every everything that I know

8:47

that I'm supposed to be doing is changed. Mm-hmm

8:50

So I think it's important to honor yourself

8:52

at that point, you know, and, and recognize

8:55

for me, it was coming out of church

8:57

one morning, the kids were all with me, but I immediately

8:59

turned on the cell phone and I

9:01

thought, why am I doing that? She she's died.

9:03

She's gone. Why, why do I need to have my phone

9:05

on? My kids are here. Yeah. But it was just

9:07

that constant awareness of, are

9:10

they calling? Is she.

9:11

Mm-hmm I tell you it's been

9:14

seven years. I still pick

9:16

up the phone to check on her. Oh,

9:18

interesting. Yes. It's it's something

9:20

I still think about now. I can

9:22

laugh at myself when I do that at first,

9:25

that would send me to tears because

9:28

I'd have to realize again. Oh no.

9:30

Yes.

9:30

And you know what I think is important

9:33

for people to recognize. They

9:35

are the caregiver. Mm-hmm you know, if that's

9:37

your person that you care about, you may not be the

9:39

one directly right there. They may not be in your

9:41

home, but you still are the caregiver.

9:43

I think, especially when people have to place

9:46

a family member in a community and

9:48

they think they've lost that role, but it's like, you have

9:50

not. It's just changed.

9:52

Thank you for bringing that up. That is such

9:54

an important. I have

9:56

had so many conversations with people

9:58

who say, oh, well, I'm not the caregiver.

10:01

I just take care of the money

10:04

or I'm not the caregiver,

10:06

but we hire someone to come in and do that.

10:08

Well, guess what? You are a caregiver.

10:11

You are, you are in some

10:13

way, whether it's a small way or

10:15

a big way, you're responsible for

10:18

the health and wellbeing of another individual

10:20

that makes you a caregiver and caregivers.

10:23

Don't all look identical. Some

10:25

people work full time and

10:27

live locally. Some people live

10:30

hours and hours away, maybe even a plane

10:32

ride or across the pond.

10:35

Right. You know? It doesn't

10:37

matter. We are all caregivers

10:39

when we have a responsibility for the health

10:41

and wellbeing of another. And just

10:44

because you are not providing the hands

10:46

on care does not mean

10:48

that you are not providing care. So

10:51

I think some people don't

10:53

honor themselves in the role that they're

10:55

playing. I.

10:57

I agree. And, you know, Liz, it used to be, people

10:59

were, they were called caretakers. Mm-hmm it's like, but

11:01

they're not, you're a caregiver, right? If you separate

11:04

that word, you are giving care. And

11:06

maybe it's as simple as a phone call. Mm-hmm

11:08

as simple as, you know, providing something

11:11

that they love sending them something they love, you

11:13

are the caregiver and it takes a team of caregivers.

11:15

And that was the only way I could do it with Mike's mom. It

11:17

was, you know, the kids, all helping Mike,

11:20

helping you develop a team so that

11:22

you can maintain your well.

11:24

yep. And the team approach is the best

11:27

way mm-hmm and I know not all families have

11:29

that dynamic. I know it can be very

11:31

difficult for some, and I

11:34

wish I had words that

11:37

could lead you to a better resolution

11:39

for that, but it's unfortunate. Sometimes

11:41

that's just how it is. And you have to kind of

11:43

take ownership for yourself. when

11:46

the family does come together. And

11:49

when there is a team approach

11:51

of not only just family members,

11:54

but your care practitioners, and

11:56

if there's an assisted living or home care

11:58

agency involved and the medical

12:01

professionals and the neighbors and the

12:03

friends that really makes

12:05

the best scenario possible,

12:07

it really. Excuse me, you get

12:09

a chance to let everybody bring forth their

12:11

strength. Mm-hmm and it's, it brings a

12:13

good well-balanced joy to the, the person

12:16

receiving the care. Besides caregivers. Sometimes

12:18

people are called care partner. Mm-hmm especially in

12:20

the earlier stages of a dementia

12:22

where they don't wanna feel like they need a caregiver. Right.

12:24

And I love that care partner is beautiful. Well, getting

12:26

back to our topic about when

12:29

a loved one passes, I don't think

12:31

that there is any way to really

12:33

prepare for that. Certainly

12:35

not emotionally. I mean, you can.

12:38

you can be fortunate enough. Like I was

12:41

to have two and a half years to journey my

12:43

mom's cancer with her that

12:45

there's nothing left unsaid and that all

12:47

of the words were spoken and we

12:49

left and parted in a good place.

12:52

So that was a real gift to have that time

12:54

to say goodbye to her. But there are situations

12:56

where someone passes suddenly and.

13:00

Both of those situations are difficult

13:02

and unique in their own way. And there's an emotional

13:05

toll that comes along with

13:07

that. And that in my mind

13:09

is the first thing that has to be dealt

13:11

with. When a loved one passes, you

13:13

have to figure out where

13:16

you stand, right. What would you

13:18

say

13:18

about that you really do, and you

13:20

have to acknowledge your. And

13:22

the grief is going to change as you go through the

13:25

next several months. So I think it's

13:27

important to recognize how, what help

13:29

do you need lean on your family, lean

13:31

on your friends, let people know

13:33

what has happened, and it's okay

13:35

to cry. It's okay to cry for months.

13:38

You know, you just have to really recognize

13:40

this is a huge part of my life that is now.

13:43

Yes. I think it's kind of interesting that

13:46

there's so many practical things you have to take care of

13:48

when someone dies, if you're the one responsible for

13:50

all that. And in some ways it's good

13:52

because it puts your mind elsewhere,

13:54

but you still need to recognize

13:57

the value of the relationship

13:59

you had and how that is gonna

14:01

be with you forever. And let

14:03

yourself have time to

14:05

reflect on that life and reflect

14:07

on your relationship and really

14:10

sit with that for a while.

14:12

Mm. That's so true. It's

14:15

important to recognize if you're not

14:17

processing through that as well. Yes.

14:19

And if you are having a problem processing

14:22

through that, understand that there

14:24

is absolutely never,

14:26

ever, ever any shame

14:29

in reaching out for help. Completely.

14:31

It is sometimes the best

14:34

idea to have an objective

14:37

person outside of your

14:39

family circle to help you

14:41

walk through the grief of losing

14:43

someone. I know so many

14:45

people who will say no, you

14:47

know, I I'll just be strong. Right?

14:49

Well, you don't have to always be

14:51

strong. You just spent a

14:53

good chunk of your life. Caring

14:56

for someone else and being strong, right.

14:58

Being the strong one and holding

15:01

onto it all. And

15:03

it's okay to release that and let that

15:05

go and let somebody be strong for you.

15:07

And if that means reaching out for extra help,

15:09

please do that. Great. Exactly. You

15:11

know, that is a great point because the research shows

15:13

that grief will often peak like six

15:16

months later. It's when you finally

15:18

realize this person is really. So

15:21

give yourself time to recognize that and

15:23

be with it. I think it's just so

15:25

important. Like you're saying to honor

15:28

that with yourself and look at now,

15:30

what am I doing for my self? You know,

15:32

we always tell you, take care of yourself, put your oxygen

15:34

mask on first, when you're the caregiver. But the reality

15:37

as we know that doesn't always happen, right?

15:39

So you wanna begin to make a plan of how

15:41

am I coping? What am I gonna be walking? Am

15:44

I doing some yoga? Do I need some aroma therapy?

15:46

And it's okay to talk to your doctor, right? If

15:48

you need some medical help for a short

15:50

time,

15:52

and then miraculously,

15:54

at some point, what you will find

15:57

is that those tears of sorrow that you

15:59

shed all the time. Probably

16:02

every day for a while. Mm-hmm those

16:04

will suddenly turn to tears of joy

16:07

that when you think of your loved one,

16:09

you start to giggle about the funny

16:12

things that they did, and yes, and some of the fun

16:14

times you had, rather than the sorrow

16:16

of losing them. So that's

16:18

a little bit of encouragement. If you're facing

16:21

it right now, a little bit hard to believe

16:23

that that's going to happen, but it will.

16:25

And it's a beautiful thing when it does.

16:27

So I do often still have

16:29

tears over my mother, but 99%

16:32

of the time, they are tears of joy

16:34

for everything that we shared, you know, and not

16:36

just her. We also cared for my father-in-law

16:39

and my mother-in-law and the same way

16:41

those people. Hold such

16:43

dear places in my heart. And

16:46

I enjoy now being able to go

16:48

back to those memories

16:49

and you probably hear yourself different times quoting.

16:52

All the time, you know, all the things will all time.

16:54

This is how he did it. This is how she did. And

16:56

mom would always say mm-hmm and that's a very

16:58

fun way to keep them

16:59

alive. Oh yes, absolutely.

17:01

They're all very much alive in

17:03

our household and in our family. And it's a

17:05

really great thing to get there and

17:07

it takes a little bit of time. Um, it does,

17:10

but once you get there, you're gonna enjoy that.

17:12

So let's turn our attention to

17:14

the practical things that have to happen

17:17

after a loved one passes. That was,

17:19

that was hard. I was the person.

17:22

Okay. And I didn't have

17:24

any guide to take me through that,

17:26

but there are a lot of practical things that have

17:28

to happen, and there's

17:30

not necessarily a

17:33

readily accessible checklist of

17:35

things to do, which by the way, we're

17:37

gonna provide one for you. That's coming.

17:39

So it'll be in the blog post

17:41

and show notes for this episode. And that

17:43

will live on the elder care guide.com

17:47

website so that you can have

17:49

access to. so

17:52

let's start there. What are the first

17:54

things that have to happen in a practical

17:56

sense when your loved one passes? So in

17:58

a

17:58

practical sense, depending where they are, if

18:00

they're at home, you need to call the doctor. Somebody

18:03

has to proclaim the death

18:05

with hospices there. The hospice nurse can do

18:07

it. Otherwise they will need to be taken to the

18:09

hospital most likely and have,

18:12

you know, the official time of death,

18:14

that sort of thing. You know, the best

18:16

gift again. Ahead of time is

18:18

if your person has done any funeral

18:20

planning mm-hmm So then you know, which

18:22

funeral home to call, you know, do they want cremation,

18:25

you know, do they want a ceremony, but

18:27

even before that you wanna contact your friends.

18:30

Maybe you have a certain friend that you wanna say, would

18:32

you tell people? Right. I remember

18:35

my very first time, many years ago,

18:37

having to tell somebody, I, I knew that my,

18:39

my good friends, uh, his dad. Had

18:41

died. So I went out to the house

18:43

and it was a real surprise DY so

18:46

quickly. And he was so sad.

18:48

The parents were so such joy and his

18:50

mom was still there and his wife was there and,

18:53

and he said, you know, we were supposed to go out to dinner tonight

18:55

with my boss. Would you let him know that I can't

18:57

make it? So I went

18:59

back to the other room and I called the boss. I said,

19:01

you know, they, they can't make it tonight. And

19:04

I came back out and my friend said, did you tell

19:06

him why? Like, uh, I

19:08

have to say somebody died oh,

19:11

what? This was way back. So

19:13

I went back to the phone and I had

19:16

to say the reason is

19:18

because you know, his dad passed away today.

19:20

Mm-hmm and that was so hard to do.

19:23

So of course he was able to spread the word

19:25

at work, and I think it's important to

19:27

let people help you with that. Mm-hmm you know, kind

19:29

of use your network. I

19:31

have found. Really interesting

19:33

and important in our job, who, with

19:35

us, when the family is out of town, who do we wanna

19:37

contact that is going to let all the

19:39

family know who is gonna be the one. So

19:42

you wanna have that in practical

19:44

ways, again, with the funeral planning, you're gonna have

19:47

a lot to do there, which keeps you busy.

19:49

And it's really nice to have the

19:51

funeral planning in my mind. This is. I'm

19:54

I am Catholic. We do a nice sendoff

19:57

and um, I think it's a beautiful

19:59

way to recognize that person's life.

20:01

I have a hard time personally, with any of our clients

20:04

that when they're gone, they're gone, family does nothing.

20:06

Oh yeah. So that does happen sometimes.

20:08

And that's oh, that's so interesting. Isn't it?

20:10

It's like, wow. It's they just.

20:13

You know, they think they don't have any friends left

20:15

or, you know, there's just so many different reasons.

20:17

People might not do a, a service, any kind

20:19

of a ceremony sometimes in the facilities,

20:22

they will do some kind of recognition

20:24

when the person's gone, not just have them taken out the

20:26

back door. Right. You know? So I, I

20:28

value life a lot. I want that life recognized,

20:31

you know, I want that person honored. So

20:33

we will help with whatever planning can be done,

20:36

but you also wanna honor their wishes. You know, once in a

20:38

blue moon, the person says, I don't want anything.

20:41

That's hard for families to concile

20:43

with. Oh, mm-hmm

20:43

mm-hmm well, my mother-in-law, she

20:46

was something else. She also

20:48

struggled with cancer and

20:50

through her two and a half year journey

20:53

through that, she decided

20:55

she was planning her own funeral. And

20:58

let me tell you, she planned the most. Beautiful

21:00

service. She chose everything

21:03

down to every word spoken

21:06

and every song that was sung,

21:08

she also made requests

21:10

about what we wear don't wear

21:12

black. She wanted us to wear bright

21:15

colors, and that was wonderful.

21:17

The only thing that the family had

21:19

to do was to make the

21:21

picture. Oh, my goodness that

21:23

stood in the front. Interesting. Yes, it was wonderful

21:26

and beautiful. And there was

21:28

no stress. It was

21:30

a wonderful experience all the way around because

21:33

the only responsibility we had was

21:35

to hold each other up and to love each other

21:37

and to share her beautiful memories.

21:39

Right. Because even though she had all that planning, you still,

21:41

like you say, you're never quite ready. Mm-hmm so

21:43

that is really interesting. So in the five wishes

21:45

that we talked about earlier, you can be that detailed.

21:48

You can put in what songs you want, maybe

21:50

even which, you know, priest or minister, you want

21:52

to do the service. There's so much that you can

21:54

specify. And that's a really

21:56

interesting role for her. That

21:59

she reconciled with the end of

22:01

her life. That's a real life journey that you're able

22:03

to assimilate everything that happened in your life.

22:05

And you want to have a good goodbye for

22:07

everybody. It was beautiful. Yeah, that is.

22:10

Yeah. But on other practical terms, you do

22:12

need to get death certificates, so

22:14

they're certified, but sometimes

22:16

you need them to say cause of death and

22:18

sometimes it doesn't need to say, so we

22:20

usually say. You have 15 to 20

22:23

copies, so you don't have to try to get them again later.

22:25

Mm-hmm and there's, you know, so many people

22:27

that you have to notify. You wanna

22:29

cancel the driver's license, you wanna cancel credit

22:31

cards. You might wanna cancel

22:33

or check with the credit bureau and let

22:35

one of the credit bureaus know the person has passed to help

22:38

protect from any identity theft. You

22:40

need to file the death certificates, but you need to file

22:42

the will and it needs to be the original.

22:45

So isn't that a challenge? Mm. So you wanna know

22:47

ahead of time, you know, make sure people know where

22:49

is your will and who is the executor?

22:52

So the executor needs to know,

22:54

wow, I need to know what all the assets are.

22:56

We need to do an inventory of the house. I

22:58

need to know. Did the bank account

23:01

and the stocks, whatever are they transferred

23:03

on death or is there a beneficiary

23:06

or are we going all the way through prob. So

23:08

it's usually a good idea to talk with an attorney

23:10

and see if it's a probate issue. You definitely

23:12

want the attorney to work with you. If things

23:15

were set up differently with a revocable living trust

23:17

and, you know, different tools, that way that the

23:19

attorney has set up for you, you may not have

23:21

to be as involved. It's easier to transfer

23:24

as according to the will, but

23:27

even before they die, do you wanna check and see,

23:29

were they an organ donor mm-hmm and are

23:31

they in shape that you can talk to the doctor and

23:33

say, you know, Or

23:36

their organs viable for somebody else. So keep

23:38

an eye on that. Um, but

23:40

that's canceling the driver's

23:42

license. Um, you wanna

23:44

cancel it or get rid of all the. If

23:46

I suppose of those safely, whether it's the police

23:48

department or how are you gonna get rid of those?

23:50

You want to look at all

23:52

of the supplies that you had and where can

23:54

you donate those supplies? You're gonna have

23:57

to, if the person was at home, you're calling hospice

23:59

or the durable medical equipment, people to take

24:01

back the hospital bed and maybe

24:03

oxygen, you know, whatever you might have had

24:05

there. But back to the paperwork,

24:08

you there's gonna be a lot of paperwork. So you wanna get organized

24:11

and set up a system for all the paperwork

24:13

and make sure creditors are paid, you

24:15

know, make sure that you have just talked to

24:17

social security. There's so many

24:19

aspects. So your checklist is gonna be wonderful.

24:23

you know, something else you might think about of course, is the obituary.

24:26

Mm-hmm you know, how are you gonna, how detailed

24:28

are you wanna be? What's the family history.

24:30

How much do you wanna put in there? Cuz the obituary

24:33

is such, you know, a tribute to the entire

24:35

family. So you wanna look at at

24:37

that and maybe you've already got something somewhat

24:40

prepared ahead of time. Um,

24:42

you need to look at with the newspapers,

24:44

how much does it cost? They're so expensive

24:46

now, but also do you want obituary

24:48

in their home? maybe there's a snowbird they're

24:50

here. Right. But you want to share the news

24:53

with friends and, uh, distant

24:55

relatives up there. I think

24:57

you also wanna consider. Did they

24:59

identify ahead of time? If somebody wants to

25:01

do a Memorial gift, you know, do you want

25:03

flowers at the funeral? Or do you wanna say instead

25:05

of flowers, she loved the humane society

25:08

or she loved hospice or whatever it might be

25:11

that you wanna identify to people, where

25:13

can they give a Memorial gift? I

25:15

think there's, um, and like, I'm so glad you're gonna

25:17

do a good checklist because there are a couple of interesting

25:20

websites and there's, uh, one really interesting

25:22

book by a guy named Kurt gr. G

25:25

R U B E. And he's a co-author

25:28

of a book that's titled, please don't die. But

25:30

if you do, what do I do next? that's

25:32

so, so good. It really, really helps

25:35

a lot. It's the best title. Yes. Yes,

25:37

because you need to do the practical things. You need to secure

25:39

the home. You need to get any valuables.

25:42

Taken care of that might need to be taken care

25:44

of.

25:45

And in my experience also appointing

25:48

a person who will

25:50

field all of the phone calls

25:52

and who will field all of the

25:55

offers for delivering

25:57

food and things like that.

26:00

Cuz that can get to be a big job

26:02

all in itself.

26:03

That is a super idea. And especially

26:05

if you're gonna have some kind of a. You

26:08

know, gathering after the service mm-hmm um,

26:10

which is super important. I did talk with somebody recently

26:12

to ask what their situation was. Hers

26:15

was, uh, a son who died by suicide.

26:18

Mm. And it was, it was horrible. I mean, everybody

26:20

was in such shock, sweet 40 year old

26:23

young man with a family. And

26:25

she said, you know, We didn't plan afterwards.

26:27

Well, we didn't plan what's next. And,

26:30

um, it, it was just really, because

26:33

you were in such shock. So I like that idea of having

26:35

a point person help plan. What

26:38

are you gonna do? Mm-hmm you know, right away after

26:40

the service the next day, when you all getting together

26:42

again, what, what is gonna happen? Yes. And

26:46

yes. And I, especially like that,

26:48

not having to be the execut. Yes, you know, kind

26:50

of divide up the chores and

26:52

hopefully the executor can ask different

26:54

people to do different things. Right. And

26:56

a good family friend is usually a good candidate

26:58

for that because they're a little bit removed,

27:00

right? From the emotion of the situation.

27:03

Mm-hmm, not that they don't have any, but it's

27:05

typically someone who can be a little bit more

27:07

objective and who doesn't

27:09

have to worry about offending someone who says

27:11

I'm bringing over a pan of lasagna.

27:14

And for that person to say, we already.

27:16

Four exactly. Please

27:19

hold off. And maybe we could ask you,

27:21

you know, to boldly ask for what the

27:23

family needs. You know, what the family really

27:25

could use is,

27:28

you know, someone to check in in three

27:30

weeks from now, right. Make sure they're doing okay.

27:32

And kind of guide the process of

27:34

aftercare, because what I find is

27:37

most people really want to participate

27:39

in the, after. For people they care

27:41

about mm-hmm whether that's a friend or a coworker

27:44

or a community person, you

27:46

really wanna participate in that, but

27:48

it's hard to know what to do. And if

27:50

there's somebody directing those activities,

27:53

that's good for everybody. That

27:54

is, that's a beautiful idea. Yeah. With

27:56

one of the main practical things you have to do, also,

27:58

if you are the executor, you have to contact

28:00

IRS and you get a tax ID. Hmm.

28:03

And that helps you set up a separate account to

28:05

help disperse the funds and pay, like

28:08

I say, any outstanding bills, insurance

28:10

claims, you may even wanna get a CPA

28:12

to help handle taxes that need to be taken

28:14

care of when tax time comes around. Right.

28:17

so many things, so

28:18

many things mm-hmm but even the practical

28:21

of what about the mail, you gotta forward the mail,

28:23

you know, who's, who's taking care of all that,

28:25

right. And timeline. What do you

28:27

experience with your clients?

28:30

What is the timeline that

28:32

you typically see for finally

28:34

getting through all of the things?

28:36

Cuz at first it's gonna be the most

28:39

necessary and immediate things like the death

28:41

certificate and taking care of some of those things,

28:43

but there are things. the male.

28:46

And I know I still get a couple of

28:48

things from my mom

28:50

all those years ago. mm-hmm, still,

28:52

yes. Yes. Um, well the

28:54

first three months are usually pretty intense. If

28:57

it is a probate situation, I think give yourself

28:59

at least three months to know it's gonna be settled. And so

29:01

you'd want the people who are in the will, who

29:03

are not identified in the will to know it could take

29:06

some time for this to get settled. Mm-hmm but

29:08

usually between four to six months, things should

29:10

be settled unless it's super complicated. Right.

29:13

Great. That's good to know. So

29:15

now that we've gotten all the practical

29:18

things out of the way we have our timeline

29:20

set, we know what to look out for in the coming

29:22

days and months. There's

29:25

the biggest task of all that

29:28

sits there, like an elephant in the room,

29:31

finding the new normal.

29:33

Isn't it. Yeah, well,

29:35

that's where it's okay to go to a grief support group.

29:38

Talk with the grief counselor, you know, your hospice,

29:40

wherever you are, your hospice will offer

29:42

free grief counseling, whether your person

29:44

was involved in hospice or not. So

29:46

that's an important way to maybe help

29:48

you reconcile with. The

29:51

intensity of what you were doing and what's

29:53

happening now. So give

29:55

yourself room to know this is okay. Mm-hmm it's

29:58

okay. If I don't wanna exercise yet. It's okay. If I

30:00

don't wanna go be out to dinner yet with

30:02

people, give yourself time to

30:04

adjust and decide, you know,

30:06

be attenti, how you are creating your

30:08

new norm mm-hmm

30:10

And how do you even begin to explore that

30:12

though? Because here's the. I

30:15

think as caregivers, we tend

30:17

to lose our identity a bit. You do mm-hmm

30:19

so the things that we enjoyed before

30:22

we became a caregiver may

30:25

not be the same things that we would enjoy

30:27

now, because there might have been a lot of years

30:29

that passed in between. Right. Isn't that the

30:31

truth? Yes. Right. Some, some people have

30:33

a very short caregiving experience,

30:35

but some of us have over

30:38

a period of many years.

30:40

Right, right. And so it can be. rediscovering

30:44

yourself completely. It

30:45

really is. And it may be a friend you need,

30:48

you know, I would say, don't go it. You know, get

30:50

the friend, get the sister, the brother, the mom,

30:52

the uncle, the somebody who you

30:54

can talk with and walk with,

30:57

you know, literally walk with, explore your

30:59

emotions, explore what else is out there. Because

31:02

like I say to me, the huge thing is

31:04

you have lost your job. You've lost your

31:06

role as a caregiver. And it

31:08

does take some time to settle

31:10

out to who am I? So

31:13

give yourself time and, and work

31:15

through it with somebody. good

31:17

advice. Mm-hmm really good

31:18

advice. Do you know? What I forgot to mention is

31:20

the digital F. Isn't that a

31:22

big deal now? Oh yes. So some, when

31:25

attorneys are creating wills, now they're actually

31:27

putting information in there about identifying the

31:29

digital footprint and access to it. So

31:32

hopefully you have that information

31:34

ahead of time. If not, hopefully there's a password book

31:37

or something that you can get in

31:39

and handle what needs to be handled there.

31:41

I think Facebook even has some protocol for

31:44

handling someone's

31:44

account. Mm-hmm they do. You can designate

31:47

somebody that if you pass that they

31:49

become. I can't remember

31:51

what the name is that they call in, but

31:54

they basically become the manager of your account

31:56

and they can manage it as if they were you.

31:58

Exactly. You designate that person on the back

32:00

end in your settings, which I find

32:03

very interesting. Isn't it? That's

32:04

where we are now this day and time, but you know,

32:06

their computer to know where are all

32:08

the digital files that are important? Where are the

32:10

photos that are important? Mm-hmm and I

32:12

think, you know, the, what, what you had talked about,

32:14

um, with your mother-in-law putting

32:17

that photo board together. And

32:19

that time spent with family the week immediately

32:21

after and planning the service is so

32:24

beautiful. It was very nice. It

32:27

can be a real healing reconciling

32:29

time. It can also be one of the worst times in your life.

32:31

Yes. It can be a time where family just is

32:34

at each other. Mm-hmm so you're really trying

32:36

to try to, you

32:38

know, work together to help people make

32:40

it a great time to honor. And, and

32:42

remember that person. That ISED. I remember

32:45

wife's mom died and we had a service

32:47

here in winter Haven, cuz she'd been here for so long, but

32:49

then we also had a service at her church up in

32:51

Jacksonville and we got there that

32:53

morning and the beautiful little flyer

32:55

that they have that tells everything had

32:57

her name wrong. Oh, oh no. And I'm like, She,

33:01

Dorothy is not her middle name. She does not have a middle

33:03

name. Oh, we are not starting this service

33:05

until we get these things fixed. there

33:07

was no way I was gonna have her, I guess,

33:09

fighting correctly. I was like, what?

33:11

Oh, so you wanna look at all

33:14

those details? Well, yes, those

33:15

are important details name, especially.

33:17

Yes, yes,

33:18

no. This is a record, you know, you want this, correct?

33:21

Yes, but I think this is one of the quotes that,

33:23

that I did see is that a heart that hurts

33:25

is a heart that works. And you've done

33:27

a lot of heart requiring work, so

33:30

it's okay to take time, to take care of your heart

33:33

a hundred percent and your own wellbeing. Yep.

33:36

You know, we encourage that to caregivers all the time.

33:38

And like I said before, we know it's not the

33:40

reality, but it's so important

33:43

to regain who you are. It

33:45

is. It is and to discover

33:47

and rediscover yourself and give yourself permission

33:50

to take the time to do that.

33:52

And to not be hard on yourself when

33:55

you can't figure it

33:55

out right away. Exactly. Or when four

33:58

months later, all of a sudden you find yourself in tears,

34:00

just looking at some tree or seeing a, a

34:02

Coca-Cola or something that, you know, whatever it is, you can't

34:04

even identify sometimes what just brings

34:07

you to yes. Heart broken. Yes.

34:10

So it's that's because you loved him

34:12

so well. Okay. It's absolutely.

34:14

What would life be without that kind of love

34:16

completely. Yeah. We're lucky.

34:18

Yeah. Very good. Well, last

34:20

question. Best question here.

34:22

It is another little

34:24

piece of Sage advice that you can

34:27

leave our

34:27

listeners with. you know, I think

34:29

it's what we've been saying, the gift to

34:31

yourself to reclaim yourself. And I think

34:34

not just after someone dies, but that's it all

34:36

through life. Hopefully you're changing

34:38

as you grow and you adapt, you

34:40

know, my degree is in gerontology

34:43

and that's the whole study of aging.

34:45

And hopefully you're growing through life

34:48

as you are aging, and you're learning

34:50

more about yourself, more about the world. So

34:52

give yourself a chance to grow.

34:54

Don't be.

34:55

a great note to end on. Don't be

34:58

afraid. Wow. Just those three

35:00

words are pretty impactful.

35:02

Thank you. And you know what? That was the song at

35:04

the end of my dad's funeral was be not afraid and

35:06

it was beautiful. Love it.

35:08

Yeah. Barbara. Thank you so much for joining

35:10

me again.

35:11

Absolutely.

35:12

Thank you. And thank all of you for

35:14

listening. I know this was a hard conversation

35:16

twice in a row. I promise you

35:18

it'll get a little lighter from here but

35:21

I think these were really important topics

35:24

for us to cover. And I do believe

35:26

that these conversations will be beneficial

35:28

to a lot of people. So if it

35:30

was beneficial to you and you think

35:32

it might be beneficial to someone else, please share

35:35

this with them. Share the gift. Of

35:37

allowing them to get prepared for this type

35:40

of conversation themselves. So you'll

35:42

find more episodes just like this

35:44

and a little bit lighter here

35:46

at the Sage aging podcast, cuz we're

35:48

committed to bringing you all of the important

35:50

conversations because by being educated

35:53

and by being engaged, you'll make

35:55

your caregiving and your aging experience

35:57

better. And that's what we're aiming for.

36:00

Isn't it. So we have some great episodes

36:02

coming up for you, as I mentioned,

36:04

and if you're not getting our newsletter,

36:07

it's a biweekly newsletter. I hope

36:09

that you'll jump over to elder

36:11

care guide.com and

36:13

take a look at what we've got there. There's a

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36:20

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36:29

So you can find us on Facebook,

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36:33

and soon to be you. Two. So

36:36

take a look and see what we've got there and tell

36:38

us what you think. Are we doing a good job?

36:40

Are there things we're missing the mark on? I

36:43

wanna know that too, because this podcast

36:45

is for you. It's designed for the caregivers

36:47

and families to make your experience

36:50

better. And if we're not delivering, we surely

36:52

wanna know that. If we are delivering,

36:55

we wanna know that too. And on

36:57

the next episode, we're gonna be chatting

36:59

with patient advocate and author, Sandra

37:01

Washington, about how to prepare

37:04

for, and get the most of your

37:06

appointments with your doctors. So that

37:08

is gonna be a super beneficial

37:11

episode for you to listen to very practical

37:13

and very helpful. So you'll wanna

37:16

join us for that. Thanks again

37:18

for listening friends. We're so happy

37:20

that you tune in to share this time with. We

37:22

will talk real soon.