0:21

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Sake Revolution.

0:24

This is America's first sake podcast

0:26

and. I'm your host, John Puma from

0:28

the Sake Notes. Also, the administrator

0:31

at the internet Sake Discord. Do

0:33

come and join us sometime. And also,

0:35

I run Reddit's r slash sake community.

0:38

Join us there, too.

0:40

And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan. I'm

0:42

a Sake Samurai, I'm a sake educator,

0:44

as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website.

0:47

and every week, John and I will be here tasting and

0:49

chatting about all things sake, doing

0:51

our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

0:54

So, John, how have you been doing?

0:56

Have you had any good sake adventures

0:59

or any tastings you've done recently that have been

1:01

fun or exciting?

1:03

Uh, taste sake that I like all the time,

1:05

Tim. It's one of the, one of the wonders of,

1:07

uh, of, of honestly, it's one of the nice things

1:09

about living in New York is that you do have access

1:11

to a lot of options, a lot

1:13

of variety. and I'm also, you know, starting

1:16

to plan. We're going to Japan in a couple of months,

1:18

so yeah,

1:21

working on, uh, working on our itinerary,

1:24

where we're going to go, what we're going to do, who

1:26

we're going to see,

1:27

It takes, it takes more planning than you would think

1:29

to successfully pull off a

1:32

sake trip to Japan, I think.

1:34

It's, it's a little bit, yeah. If you, if you

1:36

think you can just wing it when you get there, you might,

1:38

um, yeah. I mean, for going to Japan,

1:41

you can wing it when you get there, but for to

1:43

focus on sake stuff, it's a little bit trickier,

1:45

because people, believe it

1:47

or not, the people who run these establishments

1:50

and breweries, they have lives, and

1:53

they are very busy. And

1:56

you've got to be respectful of their time

1:58

as well. So, it

2:01

does take a little bit of doing.

2:03

Yes, planning really does help if you're going to Japan

2:05

and you want to experience some sake things. I

2:07

wholeheartedly agree with that.

2:09

Yeah.

2:10

So what are we going to be talking about today?

2:13

Well, today we're going to, have

2:15

a little bit of a combination of old and new today.

2:18

We're going to revisit our

2:20

wild rice series. And

2:23

the sake we're going to drink It's actually a returning

2:25

brand, but we'll get to that in a little bit.

2:27

all right. So we're going to talk about

2:29

wild rice. Things might get a little wild in

2:32

here. So who

2:34

knows what will happen.

2:34

It's Not a crazy rice.

2:36

Not crazy rice. We'll see. We'll see. All

2:38

right. Yeah. So we're going to touch on

2:40

a, a strain of sake rice that

2:43

we haven't focused on for a whole episode

2:45

yet. And we've done some

2:47

other rice strains in the past. We've done Omachi.

2:50

I know that we've done Yamada

2:52

Nishiki. And today we're going to be

2:54

talking about another famous Nishiki.

2:58

Uh, this is Hattan Nishiki.

3:00

Hattan Nishiki. Yes,

3:02

yes, yes. I, if memory

3:04

serves, this is a, when I think of Hattan

3:07

Nishiki, I think of Hiroshima.

3:08

Yes, Hattanishiki is

3:10

born in Hiroshima, and

3:13

it's a, I guess, a relatively recent

3:16

rice concoction. Uh,

3:19

Hattanishiki was created,

3:21

crossbred, in the 1970s,

3:24

and the parents of Hattanishiki

3:26

are Hattan 35

3:28

Go and Akitsuho.

3:32

So those are two rice varieties

3:35

that were cross bred to make

3:37

Hattan nishiki. And this happened in

3:39

Hiroshima.

3:41

That's interesting. Typically when,

3:43

you know, when we hear about these rice varieties,

3:46

it's often like, oh, we took Omachi

3:48

and we took like yamada, or Yeah, we did something with

3:50

that and, and played off of it. I'm not familiar

3:53

with either of these two rices

3:56

that this one was crossbred to, to create.

3:58

So that's very interesting.

3:59

Yeah. So, you know, they

4:01

did a lot of this cross breeding

4:03

to try to get new and exciting

4:06

and interesting rice varieties

4:08

that had certain characteristics to it. And

4:11

when they created Hattan nishiki,

4:14

they discovered a few things that

4:16

were actually advantages that

4:18

other rice varieties didn't

4:20

specialize in. And the first one is

4:22

the height of the

4:25

stalk. So Hattan nishiki is actually

4:28

a short king.

4:29

wasn't

4:33

ready for that one. Sorry.

4:36

so, Most sake rice

4:38

is known for growing taller

4:41

than standard eating rice, but

4:43

Hattan nishiki is actually a little

4:45

short by the standards of what

4:47

you would say for regular sake rice, so we

4:49

can say under three feet.

4:52

And the advantage to this

4:55

is that it keeps the rice from

4:58

lodging. And that's a word

5:00

we learned from Whitney

5:02

at Isbell Farms. Lodging is when the rice

5:04

falls over and kind of lands

5:06

on the ground and might get stuck in the mud

5:09

or the paddy. And

5:11

to prevent that from happening, the, the actually

5:13

shorter stalks are

5:16

a little less prone to that because they're

5:18

not up in the air as much. And if

5:20

there's a typhoon or strong winds come through,

5:22

they have a little bit more resistance to falling

5:25

over. And they have

5:27

a really nice amount

5:29

of shimpaku in their structure..

5:32

So the starchy core is really prominent,

5:35

and that's exactly what you want to see when you're

5:37

cultivating new sake rice. And I

5:39

think the amount of production

5:42

of Hattanishiki is

5:44

about, I think it ranks, sixth

5:47

in overall production. So five

5:49

other rice varieties are produced in more

5:51

volume. I think Hattanishiki

5:54

is, is ranked about sixth. It changes

5:57

from year to year, but I think last stats

5:59

I looked up, it was around the sixth most

6:02

produced sake rice. Yeah,

6:05

cool. It seems to me like a lot of the factors

6:08

with this, with this rice are, are

6:10

practical, the shortness, uh, to, to

6:12

make us easier to harvest, the,

6:15

you know, the. Shinpaku,

6:17

you know, it seems like it's just seems like a really solid

6:19

rice to use, whenever you can.

6:21

And it's, I I'm not surprised that it's so well

6:23

known that's being used so much because it does

6:25

seem like, it seems like a really

6:27

easy rice to work with, relatively speaking.

6:31

but this, this rice strain, Hattanishiki,

6:33

is really very, very closely

6:35

tied with Hiroshima. the place of its

6:38

origin. And, you know, Omachi

6:40

is really famous from Okayama, and

6:42

Yamada Nishiki is really famous from Hyogo,

6:45

and I think Hattan Nishiki

6:47

is just tied intrinsically with Hiroshima.

6:50

And you, you and I did an episode, episode

6:52

23, dedicated to our

6:54

stories in Hiroshima, and,

6:57

we tasted Hattan Nishiki

6:59

at that time, and now we're going to focus

7:01

in and revisit and

7:05

see what makes it. So delicious

7:07

and so compelling, right?

7:09

Yeah. Yeah. So yes, Tim,

7:11

as you mentioned, this sake was

7:14

previously featured in episode 23.

7:16

And it is the, uh, Joto,

7:18

quote, the one with the clocks,

7:20

uh, Daiginjo. Someone at Joto

7:23

clearly, has an affinity for Friends,

7:25

the, the old TV show. so number

7:28

one, Joto Daiginjo, is,

7:30

is a white labeled sake. It is

7:32

one that is, relabeled, you

7:34

know, when it's brought over to the United States, but it's sold

7:36

under a different name in Japan. Now, now,

7:39

Tim, how often does this kind of thing happen and,

7:41

and what's the story behind that?

7:44

Well, we did an episode on white labeling

7:46

or rebranding of sake, and

7:48

it's becoming, I think, more common

7:50

than it used to be. You

7:52

know, if a restaurant wants to produce their own,

7:55

shall we say, vanity label, or their own

7:58

brand of sake, the easiest way to

8:00

do that is simply to buy sake from

8:03

a brewery, put it in a bottle,

8:05

and put your own label on it and say, this is our sake.

8:08

Mm. Uh

8:10

with this white labeling thing that I think Joto

8:12

does really well here is that

8:14

they are completely transparent about

8:17

where the sake comes from, who makes it. They're, they're

8:19

proud to say that this is from

8:22

this producer. And

8:24

that is, in my book, the only way to fly.

8:27

Because if you're hiding who the producer

8:29

is in your sake, like, why are you

8:32

Even doing that, that does not make a

8:34

lick of sense to me. So, what

8:36

I think Joto is doing really well here is that

8:38

they wanted to create a brand, their own brand.

8:41

I think, I would imagine,

8:43

to make sake accessible

8:45

in their view. You know, to

8:47

give it a western label

8:50

and easy to understand and easy to introduce.

8:53

Um, so I think they picked a Junmai and

8:55

a Junmai Daiginjo and a

8:57

Junmai Ginjo. And, um,

8:59

I think I nigori as

9:00

as well, yeah. And, uh,

9:03

do you think that's true that they're trying to make their own

9:05

line to make it accessible to

9:07

people and easy to approach?

9:10

I do. I think that they, I think that they position

9:12

them as sort of a, I

9:14

don't want to use the word entry level cause this is a Daiginjo

9:17

that we're going to be talking about. I do

9:19

think that the idea is to kind of,

9:21

you know, Give somebody, uh,

9:23

who may be a little intimidated by

9:26

Japanese sake labels, and this is something that we've talked about

9:28

in the show many times, uh,

9:30

giving them something that's a little bit more friendly,

9:32

a little bit more, specific, a little bit more

9:35

English friendly, I think a little more Western

9:37

friendly label so that it looks more approachable,

9:39

something that you're not intimidated by, and there's

9:41

no Japanese on it. It's like, Oh, this is interesting

9:43

and it looks cool and blah, blah, blah. So

9:46

I think that that's probably a lot of the thought

9:48

process behind it. you know, also,

9:51

even though this line of Joto branded

9:54

sake, each one, I think just about

9:56

every one of them is from a different one of their

9:58

breweries that they, that

10:01

they feature. So it's kind of like they're

10:03

showcasing a different one on each. I think

10:05

that's also really interesting because if you

10:07

go through all of the different Joto

10:10

Labeled sake's you'll get a feel

10:12

for their whole lineup of different brands

10:15

that they represent And that's I think

10:17

that's probably not an accident also, you

10:19

know So I think that's a it's a good way to introduce

10:21

new people to what to

10:23

their brand family I guess to be a good way of

10:25

put it

10:26

all right. So, as we established, this

10:29

sake is released from Joto,

10:31

but it is really produced by the

10:34

Nakao Brewery in Hiroshima.

10:37

And this sake is sold under a different

10:39

name. label in Japan.

10:41

It's the Maboroshi label, right?

10:43

right, right Maboroshi

10:46

meaning like mystery and

10:49

it's a it's a But

10:51

one of the things that, that separates the Mahi brand

10:54

from the other ones that Nakao

10:56

produces is that they actually

10:58

use, uh, apple yeast. It's a,

11:00

it's a Hana kobo. And we've

11:02

talked a little bit on, on past episodes about

11:04

a lot of past episodes are culminating on this

11:06

chat we're having today. Tim so

11:08

yes, this is the yeast from the, the Apple

11:11

Blossom that they've been able to

11:13

cultivate and, and use to,

11:15

um, to make this sake and to

11:17

make the other sakes in the Maboroshi

11:19

line. Nakao also has

11:21

another line called Seikyo, which

11:24

you may have almost certainly had before.

11:27

Really really great stuff top to bottom from this brewery.

11:31

And this sake that we're going to talk about today, the

11:34

one with the clocks, also because it is,

11:36

as you mentioned, a Maboroshi

11:39

sake, is also using apple yeast as well.

11:41

Awesome. So why don't you give us the stats for

11:44

the one with the clocks, Daiginjo?

11:46

That name just rolls off the tongue.

11:48

The one with the clocks, Daiginjo.

11:51

I think we buried the lead a little bit here. So this is of

11:53

course, uh, our Hattan

11:55

Nishiki episode. So obviously the rice

11:58

in use here is Hattan nishiki. Who knew?

12:00

the Seimaibuai, the milling percentage

12:02

is 50%. As we mentioned,

12:05

the brewery is Nakao. Apple

12:07

yeast in use here. the acidity

12:09

is 1. 3. which

12:12

is very reasonable. And the sake

12:14

meter value is a plus five.

12:16

And Tim, you know, what's really interesting. We don't get a

12:18

lot of these. This is not a

12:20

Junmai Daiginjo. This is a

12:22

Daiginjo. This is aruten, as

12:25

this is a alcohol added. Now, you

12:27

know, we've talked about this many times on the show before

12:29

alcohol added does not mean it's like they're

12:32

fortifying it with, to make it boozy.

12:34

It means that they have added

12:36

some neutral spirits during the earlier part

12:38

of the brewing process in order to bring out

12:40

some of the aromas. Is that, is that a good way of putting it,

12:43

Tim?

12:43

Yes, they add a distillate of

12:45

usually sugarcane, a neutral spirit,

12:48

on the last day of fermentation of the moromi

12:50

or the main mash. And then that

12:53

dissolves additional rice particles and

12:55

allows, untapped aromas

12:57

and flavors to come out. So it's

12:59

just a, a alternate.

13:02

Slightly alternate production method that

13:04

is allowed in Japan and this is

13:07

a rare Daiginjo. You're absolutely

13:09

right. We don't see as many Daiginjos as Junmai

13:12

Daiginjos.

13:13

I think there's a, a big. Junmai

13:16

sakes are very popular right now. I think it's a nice way of putting

13:18

it There's a big like a thrust towards the

13:20

pure rice sake And so I think that Aruten

13:23

is a little bit less a little bit less popular

13:25

these days But hopefully you can come make

13:27

a comeback. I think that would be nice because some

13:29

of those aromas are really really fun

13:32

Absolutely. So this

13:34

has a lot, reading through these stats

13:36

here, this has a lot of things that are

13:40

appealing to me for sure. 50

13:42

percent rice polish, apple yeast, mild

13:46

acidity, uh, Daiginjo

13:48

grade. This is lining up to be

13:50

a real stunner, I think.

13:52

yes it is.

13:53

Well, there's only one way to find out. Should we dive in

13:55

and get this in the glass? Okay,

13:58

so I'm picking up the bottle, getting ready to pour,

14:00

and I noticed, John, this has a very distinct label.

14:03

What do you see here?

14:04

Uh, there's a lot of clocks.

14:05

Yes!

14:08

So, um, all right, so, uh, this

14:10

label is actually primarily white with

14:12

gold and silver foil inlays.

14:16

Um, for the most part, the gold and

14:18

silver foil for the vast majority of this label

14:20

are using, are used to make little

14:22

clock dial, little clocks on them to

14:25

show you, uh, I think every,

14:27

Just about every time of day possible,

14:29

perhaps,

14:31

I don't know what time it is looking at this.

14:33

no, no, I do not know what time of day it is, but

14:35

you know, this is definitely the one with the clocks. There's a lot

14:37

of clocks on it. and on the,

14:39

on the side, and it actually,

14:41

it says, uh, it takes 72 hours

14:44

to mill or polish a batch of

14:46

rice for this sake. Only the best

14:49

50 percent is used. And

14:52

that's in English, because again, this is a white labeled

14:54

sake for the Western market. Very,

14:56

very modern label, I want to say.

14:59

says, uh, This Daiginjo is delicate, soft,

15:02

and clean, showing hints of green

15:04

apple. It should be served

15:06

Chilled and paired with salads,

15:09

grilled chicken, sushi, and sashimi.

15:11

And again, this is all on the front label.

15:14

This is stuff that usually get kind of like buried in the

15:16

back, but I think when you're

15:18

able to do the whole label

15:20

for your brand, you can put

15:22

this information up front and you

15:25

can put this information front and center. So the potential

15:27

buyer can look at that and go like, Oh, well, wait

15:29

a minute. That's interesting.

15:31

Yes. And it also says on the front label,

15:33

there's more. It says, Since 2005,

15:36

Joto Sake has meticulously selected

15:38

every brewery and every sake we import.

15:41

This Daiginjo is no exception.

15:44

So they have a lot of messaging on this

15:46

front

15:47

Yes, it's a lot of language and

15:49

a lot of clocks.

15:51

but I want to call your attention to the back

15:53

label just briefly.

15:56

There is something really unique

15:58

and interesting that you don't see every day and

16:01

mine has a date stamp on it.

16:03

So does mine.

16:05

Yes, what does your date stamp say?

16:07

Uh, my date stamp says 04.

16:11

06. Hmm.

16:14

OK, mine say 04.09.

16:18

So, uh, this is interesting.

16:20

Is it 2004?

16:23

I was, I was recently visiting

16:25

my family down in Florida and

16:29

there's a Total Wines, Total Wines is a very

16:31

big

16:32

Yeah, big corporate wine store

16:33

Yes, Yes, Uh, and they carry

16:36

a lot of Joto products in their

16:38

sake section. They actually have a sake section,

16:40

at least the one near my parents place in

16:42

Florida. And so I

16:44

grabbed a bottle of Maboroshi.

16:47

They had a bottle of Maboroshi there. And

16:49

it also had a date

16:51

that was very similar. And I

16:54

was immediately concerned that perhaps it meant

16:56

2004 or perhaps 2006.

16:59

And then I remembered,

17:03

Hmm.

17:04

yes,

17:06

What did you remember?

17:07

I remembered that they reset

17:10

the brewing year when

17:12

the new emperor took over.

17:14

Yes.

17:15

Yes.

17:16

A

17:17

all of my concerns melted away.

17:20

My sake student, John Puma, gets an A

17:22

plus for this, this lesson. Yes.

17:25

So a lot of breweries

17:28

use the Western calendar year

17:30

to label their sake, and they're

17:32

going to stamp a year. So it might be

17:34

23. 09.

17:37

That would be September 2023, and that's what you

17:39

would expect to see, but this says 0409.

17:43

So, 04 is actually the Emperor's

17:45

year, and the current

17:48

Emperor ascended to the throne

17:50

in 2019. So,

17:52

they refer to the Emperor's year

17:54

as, that was Reiwa. One.

17:58

And, uh, we're in Reiwa

18:00

four now. So, this was

18:02

a fresh bottle of sake. You don't have

18:04

to worry. And, uh,

18:07

super fresh, actually. So Reiwa four

18:10

is the Emperor's year. And the reason I

18:12

called that out is because it is pretty rare

18:14

to see this on the label. So I

18:16

think that, uh, Nakao

18:19

Brewery in Hiroshima is pretty traditionalist.

18:21

Like this is old school labeling,

18:24

even on their label, their white

18:27

label bottle.

18:28

Yeah. Yeah. It's very cool. I think that, you know,

18:31

again, I was a little concerned. And

18:33

then I realized that, oh, this must be the

18:35

emperor's year. And then I tasted

18:37

it. And I was like, oh, this is,

18:40

this is so fresh. It was, I

18:42

think this is absolutely not from 2004. Because

18:45

it was still like, oh, what if I'm wrong? But

18:48

no, I definitely was not wrong. Uh, so

18:50

2004, you'd have a real vintage

18:53

bottle on your hands, collector's item. All

18:55

right, let's get this open and in the glass.

19:03

All right, let's give it

19:05

a smell.

19:07

I, I, I couldn't help but give it a smell

19:09

when I was pouring it into the glass.

19:10

Hmm, very fragrant.

19:13

Oh my goodness.

19:14

It's intense. The fruitiness is

19:16

intense.

19:18

it makes me think of, uh, Which

19:21

is, it's so juicy in the aroma. It

19:23

promises a juicy experience

19:25

to me. A juicy, fruity experience.

19:29

Nice and ripe and big.

19:32

And this is what I would classify

19:35

as a bit of a fruit salad aroma.

19:38

You know when you have a super fresh fruit salad

19:40

and you smell it and there's melon and

19:42

grape and pineapple and everything

19:44

together? It's kind of like the classic

19:47

ginjo aroma. This has it in spades.

19:49

Absolutely.

19:51

They boiled it down to green apple on the

19:54

front label. They said this smells like green apple.

19:56

So when I think of Green Apple, I'm thinking like Granny Smith, but

19:58

that's so much more, like, acidic.

20:01

Uh, and I don't get a lot of that on the nose of this at all.

20:04

I get all the other fruits. I

20:07

get subtle apple. But when I think of

20:09

green apple, I just think of Granny Smith. Maybe they're referring to a different

20:11

kind of green apple because Lord knows

20:13

while we were recording this episode, they've probably

20:15

produced two new strains of apple. I don't

20:18

even need to, I don't even need to drink this. I can just

20:20

take the aroma at all night. It's so nice.

20:22

Puma. I was

20:24

thinking the exact same thing. I haven't taken

20:26

a sip yet, and I'm just like, I can just keep on

20:28

smelling this.

20:30

It's, it's so pleasant. It's just, oh,

20:33

it just makes me happy.

20:35

This is right up your, right up your alley.

20:37

Oh, absolutely. Totally.

20:40

It's fruity. It's concentrated.

20:44

There's a lot going on in a

20:46

dense space in this aroma.

20:48

Very perfumed, very, expressive.

20:52

But if they were going for ginjo, mission accomplished,

20:55

right?

20:56

Yeah. And it's, you know, I wonder how

20:58

much of this comes from the

21:00

fact that it's Aruten, how much of this is coming

21:02

from that yeast, how much is it coming from the rice

21:05

getting out of the way and that, and that, and that 50

21:07

percent milling. It's such a fun

21:10

question for me. It's like, all right, where is

21:12

this coming from exactly? But

21:15

so, so this aroma is so beautiful

21:17

though.

21:17

Yeah. I think that it's a combination

21:20

of everything like Daiginjo, The

21:23

Aruten style, the alcohol added style,

21:25

is known to be more aromatic,

21:27

especially in the Daiginjo category. And

21:30

I think that that really comes through here. The

21:32

apple yeast, I mean, come on, that's known

21:34

as being super, um,

21:38

fruit forward as well.

21:40

Yeah, and I think that in the past we've

21:42

talked about when we were discussing

21:44

Aruten that breweries

21:47

will often use Daiginjo

21:49

as their competition sake because it

21:51

lets them harness those aromas and just

21:53

go to town and they are, they're having

21:55

some fun with this one. It is intense.

21:58

Yes. We looked on

22:00

the Joto website, and they said that

22:02

this, as we mentioned before, this Daiginjo

22:05

is sold under the Maboroshi

22:08

Brand in Japan, and this is

22:10

one of three Daiginjos they make under

22:12

that brand. And this is the entry level

22:14

one, the entry level Daiginjo.

22:17

There's two more above this. Can you imagine

22:19

the aromas on those?

22:21

I mean, I'm willing to learn if somebody wants

22:23

to show me. Wow.

22:26

Maboroshi,

22:27

if you're listening,

22:29

Yes. Alright, I

22:31

think we've put it off long enough. I think it's time to

22:33

Okay. Yes.

22:35

Yes.

22:35

talking. Start tasting. Here we go. Mmm.

22:40

Okay. Okay. Okay. I have to

22:42

say, I get green apple on the

22:44

palate. It tastes more like

22:47

green apple than it smells.

22:49

I think so, too. I agree.

22:51

It

22:51

And it's lovely.

22:53

it's very lovely. Yeah. The green

22:55

apple comes across,

22:58

for me, on the palate much more

23:00

than in the aroma. But really

23:02

lovely, super pleasing on the palate.

23:06

Not shy. It has some body to it.

23:08

hmm. it is surprisingly

23:10

full bodied. I kind of thought

23:13

it was going to be a little, um, dainty.

23:15

But definitely not.

23:17

So the alcohol percentage here is 16%. So

23:21

just a smidge above average.

23:24

Just a touch. And there is, for me at least, there's

23:26

that, there is that tiny little burn at

23:29

the end there. Tiny

23:31

little bit of the alcohol burn, but it's so,

23:34

so, such a pleasure to sip on.

23:37

And this is, as you pointed out there, entry level,

23:39

huh?

23:40

This is their entry level Daiginjo.

23:43

Yeah, yeah. So,

23:45

uh, Hattanishiki, you know, honestly,

23:47

I don't know what role

23:50

the rice itself plays in this particular

23:52

flavor. It feels like for me, the

23:55

yeast is really the

23:57

star of the show when it comes to producing this

24:00

uber, uber ginjo aroma.

24:03

But I do think that Hattanishiki

24:06

is known for creating elegant

24:09

styles of sake and, a

24:12

little bit richer in,

24:14

in palate. So I think that both

24:16

of those line up with the sake very, very well.

24:19

This isn't a rice that I think is going to produce like

24:21

super duper clean light sake.

24:24

Hmm. I think that we've definitely had

24:27

other sakes on the show before that

24:29

featured Hattan Nishiki.

24:31

The Fukucho moon on the water, that

24:33

we've had on, that, uh, was a

24:35

blend. It was Hattan Nishiki

24:37

and Yamada Nishiki. Back when we were talking about sake

24:39

breweries in Tokyo a long, long time ago,

24:42

uh, we had the, Joemon

24:45

from Kinkon, and that uses

24:47

Hattan nishiki all the way over in Tokyo.

24:50

Hmm.

24:51

And that, I think, was like a, uh, it was like a muroka

24:54

Genshu Junmai, so it was a bigger, a bigger flavor. So

24:57

this is, it's an interesting, I want to say this is

24:59

almost like an interesting rice selection for

25:01

what they're doing with this sake, because I

25:03

think you're right. It is, um, maybe

25:06

the yeast is the star of the show here. And that the rice

25:08

is a little bit richer or bringing something a

25:10

little bit richer.

25:11

Yeah, I think it gives body to

25:13

this sake. If

25:15

you have this much perfumed aroma,

25:17

you don't want a sake that's going to be watery

25:19

and too light. So I think that this, grain

25:23

from the Hattani Nishiki brings a lot of shinpaku

25:25

to it, a good amount of weight,

25:28

and is going to give some heft

25:30

to the body. So it's not just

25:32

all aroma heavy. That's

25:35

what I kind of think here.

25:37

so Tim, this is, this is going to be a tricky

25:39

one. I don't want to stump you too much,

25:41

but I think this is gonna be a little bit tricky. What

25:44

about food?

25:47

I was just going to ask you

25:49

if

25:49

I

25:50

had

25:50

beat you to it.

25:51

touche. I was just going to ask you

25:53

if you had any. Memories

25:56

from your, uh, several trips to Hiroshima,

25:59

if you think any food

26:01

you had there would

26:04

be a good pairing for this sake,

26:06

because, you know, we like to

26:08

think about loc locality.

26:10

well, it's weird because like the local food there

26:13

is like okonomiyaki and that Is

26:15

not going to be what I'm going to choose

26:18

to pair this with. It's way too, um,

26:20

way too big. Uh, having said

26:23

that, I have had,

26:25

there's a couple of really nice,

26:28

uh, tempura shops. in

26:31

Hiroshima and it's, I

26:33

know on its face you think tempura,

26:35

you may be thinking, uh, it's

26:38

greasy, it's oily, it's, it's really

26:41

good tempura when you get it from a place that's

26:43

really, that's very good at making tempura.

26:46

Uh, it's not like that at all. It's,

26:48

it's light and crisp and, and,

26:50

uh, you know, the outside is very, is, is nice

26:52

and crunchy. The inside is very soft.

26:55

It's really, really, it

26:57

does a great job of, Accentuating

26:59

the, the qualities of the ingredient

27:02

that's being used of

27:04

the, you know, so if you're having like a shrimp or if you're having

27:06

like a, I've had, I had a pumpkin slice

27:08

that was, that was tempura. Is that

27:10

the right,

27:10

Well, yeah, that is the verb.

27:13

I had a pumpkin slice that was, Tempura

27:15

ed, uh, and I

27:17

was very, I was very skeptical. I was like, this is,

27:20

I don't know about this. And it was absolutely fabulous.

27:22

It was really, really nice.

27:24

And that would be great with this, because you're right,

27:26

it's not heavy, it's not doughy, it's not greasy.

27:29

It's light, crispy, crunchy. And

27:31

the thing about high end tempura that's amazing

27:33

is that the flavor of whatever

27:35

is inside really comes through.

27:37

Yes, when they're doing it right, that's 100%.

27:41

Um, and, and, you know, and also

27:43

guys, if you happen to be in Japan and you're, and

27:45

you want to experience something like this, it's also, this can

27:47

be done very inexpensively. It's

27:49

not something like, uh, it's not going to be like

27:51

a hundred dollar night. You can have

27:53

really great tempura for

27:56

like, honestly, I had one of the most

27:58

amazing tempura lunches, that

28:00

I've ever had in my life for, under

28:02

10 US. That's

28:04

absolutely wonderful. Yeah.

28:07

amazing. And that's a really good advice. You don't have

28:09

to spend a ton of money to

28:11

eat like a king in Japan because it is

28:14

so many good places are really

28:16

affordable and lunch is, that's

28:18

the secret word, like you can go to some of

28:20

these high end restaurants for their lunch service

28:22

and for a fraction of the cost, you can get

28:25

an amazing, amazing meal.

28:27

Yes. And you're going to leave full. It's

28:29

not, uh, don't think they're skimping

28:31

on it because it's lunch. It's absolutely wonderful

28:33

stuff. Um, all

28:34

think you've cra I think you've cracked the code.

28:37

So, uh,

28:38

I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to test this

28:40

Daiginjo

28:40

out. I don't know. That's how science works. Right.

28:44

Yes, that's awesome. Well, I,

28:46

I love that. And, uh, I think

28:48

next chance I get, I'm going to have a

28:51

delicious fruity Daiginjo with tempura

28:53

and test out your theory, but I'm on

28:55

board. Sold.

28:57

Excellent. Excellent.

28:58

All right. Well, John, it was so

29:00

great to taste with you today. I hope you had

29:03

fun exploring a little bit about

29:05

Hattan nishiki. It's

29:07

a very interesting rice, and

29:10

the thing I love about it is that it's so specific

29:12

to Hiroshima. And opens the door to

29:14

studying about that great region.

29:16

So, uh, whenever you see

29:19

Hiroshima, check the sake rice and see

29:21

if you're sipping on some delicious Hattan nishiki.

29:24

A special thank you to all of our listeners.

29:27

Thanks for tuning in today. We hope that you're enjoying

29:29

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29:31

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30:02

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30:14

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30:16

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