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In this episode, I'm talking with Sabine Gideon, who is an executive

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coach and leadership strategist.

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If you are someone who is trying to figure out the next career move or doing a

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career pivot, this episode is for you, as Sabine discusses with extreme candor you.

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On how her own personal and career journey evolved.

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Securing a big salary should be as easy as asking for more, right?

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Turns out it's a little bit more than that.

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First, let me ask you, which of these apply to you?

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Reading org announcements with envy as other people get promoted?

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Working long hours with little to show for it?

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Getting more degrees hoping to be seen?

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Don't feel bad. I made the same mistake myself without even realizing it.

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And it's not your fault. In this podcast, I'm going to help you master the strategy and

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techniques on how to get promoted, how to double your paycheck, and how

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to secure more flexibility without adding more work or more degrees.

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You are listening to Salary Negotiations Made Simple, the show that builds

1:18

your confidence and inspires you to negotiate for the career you deserve.

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Do you want to double your salary?

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Secure an ideal career and increase your confidence to powerfully

1:29

negotiate every career move, then you are in exactly the right place.

1:38

Hi Sabine, happy to have you here.

1:41

Welcome. Hi Dorothy. Thank you so much for having me.

1:44

I am excited to chat with you today. Fantastic.

1:47

Will you start us off with a little introduction about you?

1:50

Absolutely. And thank you for asking. Currently today I serve as an executive coach and leadership strategist.

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However, I did not start that way. Obviously I started my career in human resources right out of

2:02

undergrad with HR went into HR. So I'm one of those rare unicorns did HR for, did, did, Was in the

2:09

talent space for about 10 years at the earlier part of my career.

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So talent acquisition, mostly some talent management, some talent

2:16

development decided that I wanted to be a business partner and HR business

2:19

partner and kind of felt pigeon pigeonholed into the talent space.

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Went back, got my master's, finally got the HR business partner role and realized

2:30

that it was not what I wanted anymore.

2:33

So six months, this was six months in. So needless to say, it was a very humbling, disappointing and emotional

2:41

period in my career simply because I had worked so hard to get to that level.

2:45

And when I realized that one, I have, I had outgrown that version or that vision

2:51

of myself from when I was 22 to 22, 23, and I was in an environment that was

2:57

not conducive to me being able to show up fully as who I had evolved to be.

3:03

I made the decision to step away and start my own business.

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But not before I had to ask myself two critical questions in that

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space of time where I had to ask, when have I felt the most alive?

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And when have I felt the most impactful in my work?

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And two answers came back where I was sitting with employees and

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helping them map out their careers and then reverse engineering.

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Okay, well, Projects with skills, what things did they need to

3:30

do to help them get there? And then when I was behind closed doors with leaders and they were vulnerable

3:36

and they were human, and I could support them in a way that went beyond

3:40

the normal HR, The leader capacity.

3:44

And so when I decided to start my business, I was just like,

3:48

I'm going to help leaders. I'm going to help leaders who are in transition and employees who

3:51

are in transition as well, but I believe everybody's a leader.

3:54

So everyone goes under that umbrella to help support them in becoming

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whoever it was that they needed to be. So I've been doing that for the last.

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Five years. I've worked with startups, global organizations, fortune 100 companies.

4:09

And yeah, that's a bit about what I'm doing today and where the start is from.

4:13

Fantastic. And you talk about in your posts and your talks about how you didn't have

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a blueprint to navigate your career because you are first generation.

4:24

Can you tell us a little bit about What the journey was

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and how you felt at that time?

4:30

Yeah, absolutely. So as you mentioned, first generation college student, first generation

4:36

corporate employee, I always joke like I was the first one in the

4:39

boardroom, but nonetheless, when I started my career, eager beaver, I

4:44

was already type a very ambitious. And so I went into it with the mindset of I'm going to work hard, right?

4:49

Because that's what most immigrant parents drive in.

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I don't know about you, but my parents were very stuck on.

4:56

You either become a lawyer or become a doctor.

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So I had already failed them by not becoming either one.

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So like I had to make it right. So I go into corporate America wanting to do all the things.

5:07

And very early on, just because I'm extroverted, like I had no problem

5:11

building relationships, asking people to be my mentor or being.

5:15

Part of affinity groups like the African American or even the

5:19

Hispanic and the women's group. And really asking the questions of how did you navigate your career?

5:24

And while I got everybody's background stories and how they did it, I still

5:28

didn't, I still didn't have a strategy.

5:30

It still wasn't clear. What is the pathway?

5:33

How do you move forward? And I, at the time I had been in this department and there were a couple of

5:38

people, there are a couple of people who I'm going to call Bob for the

5:42

sake of protecting their identity.

5:44

There are a couple of gentlemen who were Caucasian gentlemen who I

5:49

saw advancing in the organization.

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And I, sometimes you have that person where you're like, how I don't get it.

5:56

And so I coined him Bob. And so we've all probably worked with a Bob, but I, what I noticed

6:01

was that Bob was advancing and Bob wasn't working any harder than I was.

6:06

Bob wasn't coming up with any cool strategies or generating any revenue

6:11

or anything that like I could say was outstanding and standout.

6:15

And so I started to observe and I observed Bob for myself, but then

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I also started to look outside of just my current environment and

6:24

department because I was in HR. So I could see as people were being elevated and What the conversations

6:31

were around why they were being put on the high potential list versus

6:35

someone else and everything else. And I started to notice a pattern in the theme.

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What Bob did that I didn't know to do and what I know a lot of women

6:45

in general don't know how to do, Is really building that social

6:49

capital within the organization. And what that looks like is not just making sure that you're doing

6:54

the work and that you're creating all these results, but making sure

6:58

that people know about it and not just anybody, but the right people.

7:02

So at the time I had never heard of a skip level meeting.

7:05

So when I heard that Bob was scheduling skip level meetings,

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I was like, what's that? How do I do that?

7:12

What, what's going on there? I didn't even know.

7:14

I didn't even have the comprehension to know that.

7:17

You could request a meeting with your manager's manager, maybe

7:21

even two levels above that. And there was a very strategic, um, framework that was being used to when

7:28

you were having those conversations. And so it wasn't just, Oh, Hey, how's it going?

7:32

And you're, you shot shooting off a list of all the amazing things that you do, but

7:37

using a framework that was very strategic that positioned you in a specific way.

7:41

It's a space where you understood or wanted to understand what their

7:44

priorities were, where you also were articulating what value you were

7:49

bringing and what value you wanted to bring to the organization, along with

7:53

letting them know if and how they could support you in being able to do that.

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And so it was through observing how, how the language, if you will, of

8:03

success of corporate America, that I was then able to adopt that and navigate

8:08

my career in a much different way.

8:10

And so that's a lot of what I do today in supporting women specifically,

8:15

although I do coach men as well in.

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Stepping away from the work, or I shouldn't even say stepping away from

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the work, making sure that part of the work includes the relationships

8:25

includes the strategic networking and includes you being able to articulate

8:30

to the right people, the value that you are bringing into the organization.

8:36

That is so profound. So when we are doing networking, The social conditioning is that women

8:45

tend to be better at collaboration and making friends and being open, but yet

8:52

when it comes to strategic networking, it seems like Bob was better than

8:56

you or Bob is better than you or I.

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So what is that? What are those missing pieces?

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What? We're great at breaking the ice, making friends, but somehow we're, we're

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terrible or we don't know how to get that conversation to the next level

9:13

is how are you going to help Bob?

9:15

How are you going to help me? Yeah.

9:18

And I think that's the critical piece. Bob is going into these relationships probably because he likes the person and

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has some type of a mutual connection, but Bob is going in with a specific agenda.

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And I think for us as women, you think about it, we are very social.

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We are, like, if you want to know where someone got something, all you have

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to do is say, Girl, I love that purse! And you'll hear, Oh, I got it from Nordstrom Rack, or I got it da da da.

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So, we, what we do so naturally, I think we take it for granted.

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And of course, society has minimized what we do so naturally as, Oh, that's

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just the women being social, or that's just the women being That soft spot.

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skills. And so we then downgrade a skill.

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It is a skill to be able to walk in a room and connect with someone on

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something that is personal or whatever.

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And I, and this goes for the introverts too. So if there are any introverts listening, it was like, I don't like doing that.

10:13

You may not like doing that, or you may not be able to do that for long

10:16

periods of time, but it's still an innate ability that we have as women.

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And so when it comes to that shift.

10:26

It's think about it doesn't necessarily always have to be a situation where

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it's just work and you're looking to get something Right, you start

10:35

with the practice of how can I spark a conversation with someone?

10:39

Find something that we have a mutual connection on and have a

10:43

conversation with that, right? That's the first step because once you tell people oh, you got to strategically

10:48

network I I had a conversation with someone not too long ago They said they

10:52

know the bobs right because we've all had them You But when they observed

10:55

Bob, they got an icky feeling, right?

10:58

They were like, Oh, I don't want to be like that.

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Because in their case, Bob was the one who was taking credit for their ideas.

11:04

Bob was doing other things and not just being strategic about it.

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And I was just like, okay, that, that is a valid point.

11:10

We can look at some Bobs or some people and just be like,

11:13

I don't want to be like that. But at the end of the day, if we want to do anything in life, We have to be

11:20

willing to tell people what we want to do so that they can support us.

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No one succeeds in a vacuum. No one succeeds on their own.

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This whole notion of the self made millionaire, the self made whatever.

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No one is self made. Everyone has a team.

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Everyone has a group of people. And so it's that first that understanding and that mindset of I

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need people to know what I'm doing and I need people to be my advocates.

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I need people to be in my corner because that's the only way that

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it's going to spread of about the amazing work that I'm doing.

11:55

Yeah, it's very true. I recently just wrote a article on sponsoring people sponsoring.

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So you are not in the critical decision making as a mid level or just

12:06

starting out employee, the decision making happens behind closed doors.

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So you need a voice and representative who will vouch for you or who will say,

12:16

Oh, we have this problem in the company. We need You know sabine or dorothy to come and solve this problem So you need

12:24

to let those advocates or those sponsors know what your aspirations are And they

12:31

can then take the baton from there.

12:33

Yeah, absolutely And so I I know for many people The conversation especially with

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women has been get mentors get mentors.

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I think we're over that because i'm mentored out I do not want to Yes, we

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are over mentored under network, and we're we don't have the right people

12:53

because think about the people that we were drawn to for mentors, right?

12:56

It might be someone who is one level up or two levels up, or maybe they're

13:01

in a different function, right? Or if you're thinking about it from the organizational perspective,

13:05

like who we see as mentors are the people who we can immediately see

13:09

ourselves in or that we want to model.

13:12

Our sponsors, on the other hand, it.

13:15

Mhm. They may not look like us, they may not think like us, and we may not

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even like them in reality, right?

13:21

And so that is a different mindset in how you build that relationship.

13:26

Not that I'm saying that it has to be transactional, but it has

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to be very strategic and it has to be from a business lens and not a

13:34

personal and social and I want to like you and I care about you lens.

13:38

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

13:41

And to your point that a advocate or a sponsor doesn't have to look like

13:46

you, like I've had plenty of sponsors and mentors who are men, Caucasian

13:50

men who have taken it upon themselves to help, but they wouldn't know to

13:54

help until I raised my hand and said, Hey, I need you to open doors for me.

13:59

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And the unique thing too is even with sponsors, sometimes you don't,

14:06

sometimes you don't know who your sponsor is in the sense of at least

14:10

not until they make themselves known. So the question now becomes, who have you identified at you've seen?

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And I shared this with a client not too long ago.

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Think about the executives who are in the organization.

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Who have you observed? Opening the door for other employees, right?

14:29

Because again, they're not wearing a sign on their back that says I'm a sponsor.

14:33

I'm a sponsor. Success leaves clues.

14:36

So who have you visibly observed?

14:39

Opening those doors that lets you know the people who are

14:43

playing in those spaces, right? And of course, your first conversation, if you reach out to this individual,

14:48

they may not become your sponsor. It may just be one other person that you've connected with and built the

14:52

relationship with in the organization. But you will know if someone wants to sponsor you when they start to

14:58

express interest in what you have going on and what you're doing.

15:03

Unlike a mentor where you'll say, Oh, Hey, would you be willing to be my mentor?

15:08

I would not advise that you ask.

15:10

One, hey, would you be willing to be my sponsor?

15:13

But you will know that this person wants to sponsor you based on how much

15:16

of a vested interest they see that they want to put in, but also that they see,

15:21

hey, if I put my name on the line for Dorothy, I'll feel okay with it because

15:26

I know this is Dorothy's track record.

15:29

This is where she wants to go. And this is where I see her adding value to the organization.

15:34

So you have to first have those conversations with the understanding

15:38

of what are their priorities and how do you fit in those priorities?

15:42

And how do you articulate how you fit in those priorities so that they can

15:47

put their name on the line for you? Yeah.

15:50

Yeah. In your posts and your content, you talk a lot about the power of

15:54

networking that leads to promotions and leads to salary increases.

15:59

Can you tell us, tell us like your, uh, main tips around that?

16:03

Like how does somebody use the power of their network?

16:06

Yeah, absolutely. I'll use a current example right now.

16:10

So I have a client who is at an organization, been there for a long time.

16:16

Wants to move up. Right now, the way that the structure of the organization is, and of course,

16:21

with everything that's happening, there's been like, uh, a little bit

16:24

of a, not a freeze, but they're just not, they're not advancing as quickly.

16:29

And so, the frustration has come in where it's like, oh, I, I guess I gotta leave.

16:33

I guess I gotta go somewhere else. And it's just like, maybe not.

16:35

And especially when you're in a large, matrixed organization, right,

16:39

there's just So many moving parts that you don't necessarily know.

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So the first thing that I shared with her was similar to what I shared in the past.

16:48

Let's think about managers or other leaders that you have worked with, whether

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it was on a cross functional project, whether it was they were the sponsor to

16:57

whatever project that you were working on. And let's go have a con let's schedule some time to have a conversation,

17:03

not, not 10 or 20 or anything like that, but just a handful of people.

17:08

Okay, Sabine, you talk a lot about, uh, using the power of

17:12

networking to get ahead or get a promotion or get a salary increase.

17:17

Can you share a story or experience of someone who used the power of their

17:22

network or are using the power of their network to thrive or get ahead?

17:27

Yeah, great question. And so I I was going to answer this one way, but I'll shift

17:32

here and focus on the other. I want to say first and foremost, uh, a lot of the things that I'm, I'm

17:38

hoping in the next few years we break down is a lot of for many years, and

17:43

I'm sure you experienced this, right? There was this unwritten rule in organizations that you weren't

17:48

allowed to talk about your salary. That you weren't allowed to talk about certain things right and we as women

17:55

already have these Whatever feelings when it comes to money that we have to

17:59

work through at different stages But the key piece is i'm seeing more and

18:04

more that more women Are being open are willing to share about their salary.

18:10

There is this saying that you don't know what you don't know.

18:13

And so it wasn't, I think back to a time in my career where I wanted an increase.

18:19

And I had a conversation with someone.

18:22

She was a couple levels above me, but I went to her because

18:26

I had made her my mentor. And I was just like, I want to ask for a raise and this is what I'm thinking.

18:33

And so she was just like, no, you're not going to ask for that.

18:37

And it was because I wasn't asking for enough. And so I think that there's a power in us building the relationships

18:43

with people who we trust people who are at similar fields in us.

18:47

And it could be at a different organization. If you don't feel comfortable asking someone who is in your organization,

18:53

who is a peer, who is above you. You because you don't have that level of relationship, but just

18:57

saying, Hey, you know what? I want to ask for this promotion or I want to go for this promotion

19:02

or I want to ask for this raise. I'm thinking X.

19:06

What are your thoughts? And I say that in that position because people might feel awkward if you come out

19:11

and be like, how much money do you make? So people may not be receptive to that.

19:15

And you're going in there not just with some random arbitrary number

19:20

that you picked out You're going to do some research first, right?

19:23

So there's a strategy to this. You're going to do some research You're going to figure out and if you're your

19:28

company you're in a state where they don't publish the job the salary You can ask

19:34

HR, you can ask your manager, whoever, what is the range for a particular role?

19:40

They're not allowed to keep that from you. They may not publish it, but if you ask, what is the range, the 50th

19:46

percentile to the 90th percentile, you could get that information.

19:50

Then you look at what are the requirements for whatever that next

19:53

level is or whatever the role is.

19:56

And then you identify, I remember this one time.

20:00

Two times I asked for, I feel like I answered it and then I was just

20:04

going to go on a tangent anyway.

20:06

So you were going to talk about a story about someone who, do you

20:11

want to still cover that or no? It was a yeah, that was probably gonna be more on the like the networking side

20:18

than it was salary I was going to go into two times that I went in for salary

20:22

negotiations The first time didn't work so well And then what I learned from

20:27

that that when the second time I asked for salary negotiation how I got what I

20:30

wanted So if you want to frame something about tell us about your experience Yeah.

20:37

Yeah. All right. All right, Sabine.

20:39

So that is wonderful. So help us understand your own journey.

20:45

Like when you had to ask for a pay increase.

20:48

Yeah. How successful were you and what did you learn?

20:53

Okay, so i've i've negotiated my salaries when i've gone into new organizations

20:59

But I remember being in an organization and I had just been moved into a new

21:05

role I didn't apply for it They did a reorg and they decided that they were

21:10

going to create this new role And in the new role, I wasn't going to get an

21:15

increase Please And so they presented this role to me and they were like,

21:20

Oh yeah, now you get to focus on this.

21:22

Like it was still in acquisition. You get to focus on this, you'll get your own recs and they're selling it to me.

21:28

And we get to the end of the conversation and I'm expecting a

21:31

conversation around, this is what your new pay increase is going to be.

21:35

Nothing. And I was like, okay, so what is the new salary?

21:38

You're, when you came in, you already got the top of our band, so

21:42

we feel like this is equal to it.

21:44

Whatever excuse that they gave to me at the time.

21:47

Now granted, I was 23, 24, bold and brazen, had no corporate

21:51

experience anyway, so I didn't know the, the rules of the game.

21:55

And so that night I went on salary. com I went on pay scale I looked up the role to the extent that I could And I

22:03

came up with the number I think I picked like the 70th percentile whatever was at

22:07

the 70th percentile because I was like Oh, that's between the 50th and the 90th.

22:11

That sounds good So the next morning I prepared my talking points.

22:15

I was ready to go again New to this.

22:20

The next morning I show up super early at work cause I knew my manager at

22:24

the time, he arrived early and I was just like, okay, I'm ready to do this.

22:28

And I knocked on his door and I was just like, you got a minute?

22:31

He was like, yeah, sure. What's up? It was just us in the office.

22:35

And I go into his office. I was just like, yeah, I'd like to revisit the salary about that job that you talked

22:40

to me about because I went on salary.

22:43

com and salary. com says that this range is between this and this.

22:47

And I think that this is inappropriate because it's right

22:49

in between the 50th and the 90th. And he sat there.

22:52

He was just like, okay, this is not a conversation that I'm

22:56

going to have with you right now because this is not appropriate.

22:59

Let's circle back about this. And I was like, Oh, okay.

23:05

Sure. I walked out with my tail between my legs and I went and I sat back

23:11

at my desk and I was just like, I don't know what this means.

23:14

What's going on? Yada, yada, yada. Then they came back to me or he scheduled time.

23:18

He was just like, okay, Sabine. I thought about what you said, we're not going to change a salary, but if

23:23

I can give you some advice that like the way that you approach this was

23:26

not the right way to do it, right? Like we should have had some time scheduled.

23:31

This should have been a conversation, this, that, and a third.

23:33

And oh, I was angry. I was absolutely angry.

23:36

I was like, so you're not giving me the raise because I didn't

23:39

schedule a meeting with you. That's how immature I was at the time.

23:42

So that was the lesson learned. Needless to say, I didn't get that raise.

23:45

Yes. Two years later, we were at a space in the organization where they

23:50

decided that they weren't going to give raises out or was it bonuses?

23:54

They weren't going to give something out, but I was so far behind the,

23:59

I don't think I was even at the 40th percentile at that point.

24:02

Now, mind you, I'm a recruiter. I have access to the pay bands and everything.

24:06

And for me, I was just like, look, I, you may be okay with not having a pay

24:11

increase or whatever the case may be, but the longer that this happened.

24:15

then the further back that I go, and I am a top performer,

24:19

I'm considered a high potential. So what I did was I created an executive summary with a complete SWOT analysis

24:27

that stated like, these are the strengths.

24:29

These are the things that I brought to the organization.

24:31

These are the areas that I still have opportunities that I'm well aware of.

24:35

These are some of the threats and the threats that I put in there was

24:39

The fact that I was under the 40th percentile of the salary band, that I

24:44

had this number of years of experience. I don't know that I brought in diversity or anything like that,

24:49

but I stated hard facts and I forget what I included else in there.

24:54

And I went into my manager. I, of course I scheduled the time.

24:57

I said, I'd love to have this conversation with you.

25:00

I understand that we're in a place where the budgets are being cut.

25:03

However, this is where I see.

25:05

the opportunity for me and I want to at least express this.

25:10

And so she, she took it. She was just like, you know what?

25:12

I don't know what I can do. I'll go have conversation with the leadership and then I'll get back to you.

25:17

That year I was the only one that got a salary increase simply because I asked

25:22

and simply because I, sorry, there's a gnat and simply because I presented it in

25:27

a way that was honest, that was truthful, that laid out the facts and also laid

25:32

out the benefits for the organization.

25:35

So after my first encounter that I would love to forget, but now

25:40

it's made a very good story. It taught me how to present myself and how to present myself in a way that

25:46

Wasn't just about, I deserve more money, but this is the opportunity for you if

25:51

you do this, and then these are some of the potential consequences if you don't.

25:56

Yeah, that is an absolutely great story because that's what happens

26:02

a lot of times with my clients is I got, when I talked to them the first

26:06

time I got denied a pay raise, tell me how you presented your case and it's

26:10

usually inflation is 20 percent high.

26:13

I can't afford to pay rent and I don't have, I can, I have all

26:17

these car payments, et cetera. The problem with that is it's all true and it's very urgent for you, but you've

26:24

got to put it in terms of what's in it for them for that story to absolutely

26:29

resonate and sounds like you did exactly that with your executive SWOT analysis.

26:35

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the point, right?

26:37

Like they, they don't care about your bills.

26:40

Yeah. Unfortunately, they don't care.

26:42

And so the other thing that I would say too, is I was saying this in the

26:47

last part, is that it's important for you to make sure that you have

26:51

people in your immediate circle. Who you can ask and you can verify what are you getting paid or not?

26:57

What are you getting paid? But this is what i'm thinking What are your thoughts and that way you could get

27:02

a little bit more of a realistic view Of what is possible because sometimes even

27:08

when we do the glass store the salary. com or whatever the case may be That may not be realistic in that

27:13

particular organization, or your organization may have a compensation

27:17

philosophy that they pay above market.

27:19

And so it's doing your homework ahead of time.

27:22

Okay. What are the bands here? And then how can I identify some people that I trust at the same level

27:28

and get it inkling on where they are, where I might go in so that you don't

27:33

undersell yourself or you don't go in with an unrealistic expectation.

27:38

How can your network provide you the cushion so when you go in, there is

27:43

always the fear that the relationship might sour or the something with the

27:49

manager might not click like your first instance where your manager said, I'm not

27:54

going to have this conversation with you. So tell me how to use your network to provide a fearless.

28:02

Nest to you when you go ask for more money.

28:04

Yeah, I think listening to this podcast is a way to do that.

28:08

So you're coming on, you're bringing guests.

28:11

We're talking about the experiences that we're, we've had, we've

28:14

taught, we're talking about the strategies that have worked for us.

28:17

And this is part of the networking piece or building your network.

28:22

Now, like the community that you've built, they have this knowledge,

28:25

they have this information. The other piece too, is with regards to salary, or I should say, Don't look at

28:32

it from just a salary perspective, right?

28:35

Because salary is huge. But what is the total compensation look like?

28:39

And the way that you leverage your network, ask the questions.

28:43

And if you're someone who is just, I don't, I'm not on LinkedIn, or

28:46

I don't go to networking events. You don't have to be on LinkedIn to do this.

28:50

You don't have to go to networking events. People, there are people that you've worked with in your past, right?

28:54

There's this notion that like at least a hundred people, you can go back

28:58

in your career and you can identify.

29:00

Bye. Go back and ask people, and if you have friends in HR, this is where you

29:05

go to your friends in HR, and say, hey, what are your thoughts here?

29:09

I guess I want to say that I know networking, people sometimes have

29:13

this adverse reaction to networking.

29:16

Oh my gosh, I couldn't imagine going to an event or reaching out to somebody

29:20

randomly, asking them about money, which is something that's so personal to us.

29:25

Doesn't have to be that your sisters, your cousins, your

29:28

brothers, they all work, right?

29:30

They all, they're all in a business in some capacity, right?

29:34

So you can think about your network at, as part of your social community as well.

29:39

The challenges. Not staying quiet because we've been conditioned not to talk about money or

29:46

we have fear about money or we think that sometimes Asking for more money makes

29:50

us feel greedy and we may have people in our environment that might be like, oh

29:54

my gosh Like why are you being greedy? Why are you asking?

29:57

Why aren't you just happy? with what you have.

29:59

So when you think about the network piece, think about it

30:02

from four categories, right?

30:05

So there are the people who are your cheerleaders.

30:07

These are the people who are going to tell you, go ahead, do it,

30:10

ask for 15 percent more, right?

30:13

That those are the individuals. Then there are people who can serve as your mentors who can say, Hey,

30:18

This is how I would approach it. This is how I move forward.

30:21

And they could be formal or informal mentors.

30:23

And then there are going to be the naysayers that are part of your

30:26

community and that are part of your life. There are going to be the people who would be like, wow, you're being really

30:31

greedy or how dare you ask for more money?

30:33

Or why aren't you grateful? You need to identify those people too, because those are the people that you're

30:38

going to stay away from this conversation.

30:41

But we all have people in our immediate network, in our immediate.

30:45

Circles that we have relationships with that can either be our sounding

30:50

boards that can either be guides for us that can teach us strategies like

30:54

this podcast and this community does. And then of course, we're going to have those people who are going to

30:59

talk us out of it, identify them and make sure those aren't the people that

31:03

you're having this conversation with. Yeah, that is so true.

31:07

Like you have to identify your naysayers and because maybe they still

31:10

want something that is right for you. Maybe it's your family, but they've never done this thing, this fierce

31:16

thing you're about to do, and they're trying to protect you, but

31:19

it's not going to do you any favor. So it's, it's time to tune them out for this particular situation.

31:25

Yeah. And that's what most people go to, right?

31:27

Like they'll go to hubby or they'll go to mom and dad or whoever.

31:31

And if that's not their lived experience and they can't give you advice.

31:35

Or they will give you advice, it just won't be advice that serves you.

31:38

So when you think about the network, think broadly and then

31:41

put people in the right buckets. And ask yourself, which group of, within this bucket, are going to

31:48

be the most likely to help me?

31:51

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe Bob is in your, one of your buckets because Bob knows how to play it, right?

31:57

Yes. Bob knows how to play the game.

31:59

Absolutely. Yeah. Fantastic.

32:01

Sabine, thank you so much for your insights.

32:04

Really appreciate your being candid and open about your experiences.

32:08

If people want to find you, how can they reach you?

32:12

Yeah, great question. And thank you. This has been a great conversation.

32:15

So two places, LinkedIn, that's where I hang out.

32:18

I play, you can find me at Sabine Gideon and I have a podcast as well called

32:23

She Leads Now, which is soon to be a different name that I will release

32:27

when we released our hundredth episode. But you can find me on there as well, where we talk all things,

32:32

career, life, and business. And of course, we'll put everything in the show notes, all your links

32:38

so that people can find you. Thank you so much for joining us today.

32:43

And thanks for sharing your insights.

32:46

Have a great afternoon. Thank you, Dorothy.

32:48

Take care. Bye bye. I hope you feel inspired today.

32:52

Whether you're feeling pigeonholed in your current role, thinking about a

32:56

career pivot, or seeking strategies to enhance your leadership and

32:59

networking skills, there are some great nuggets that Sabine gave us for

33:04

every single one of those instances.

33:07

This episode is packed with wisdom and practical advice, and I am

33:11

surely going to apply a few of those in my own career journey.

33:16

Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.

33:21

There you have it, my friends. As you know, I'm on a mission to close the pay gap.

33:26

Every podcast episode is designed to give you the tools, techniques, and inspiration

33:31

so you can bravely advocate for yourself.

33:34

Thank you for listening and bye for now.